religion is a very strong factor in people's lives. Studies have shown that 81% of Americans are religiously affiliated in some form or fashion. Such studies have also shown that Americans are highly likely to believe in Hell and the devil. Religion is also important as it plays a part in the selection of political candidates. It somewhat influences attitudes towards sex and science. Out of all postmodern Western countries, America is the most religious. Why do Americans hold on to religion when it is an outmoded principle?
Because there is a force of goodness beyond us. This force must be called upon and must be invoked. You, gmwilliams and others may not sense it, feel it, perceive it... nevertheless it is real and many know it. They come from the astral with a subconscious memory, perhaps. Many come to earth knowing it is a "second" chance to find God… and are determined to do so. Thank goodness for them.
Thank you the image of our flag in connection to this topic.
PS I have heard that George Washington prayed for four hours every morning...
We are all born with a "force of goodness". Some are born unable to use it, but it doesn't come from an "astral" source.
What is your source for believing that G. Washington prayed for 4 hours every morning and what does that have to do with this question?
"What is your source for believing that G. Washington prayed for 4 hours every morning and what does that have to do with this question?"
Um, I have to assume that she used the example of George Washington because he is a historical American figure and the question asked the why religion is a big thing in American society. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure that one out or were you just trying to be rude to her because she is a believer and you don't like her answer.
Btw, this isn't your question, so I don't see why you have to go all question-nazi on someone like you do on your questions. You can't delete them here, so whether or not you think an answer is relevant doesn't matter.
The question was not why George Washington, but instead what was the source of information that GW prayed four hours each morning. Which you didn't answer, either.
Nope. You seem to have selective seeing. There was two questions and I addressed the second one.
"What is your source for believing that G. Washington prayed for 4 hours every morning and what does that have to do with this question?"
As you can see, I addressed her question about what George Washington has to do with the question.
As for George Washington praying for four hours, I have no clue, therefore I didn't answer that part. Any more problems? Did I clear things up for you?
Well gee whiz, why can't you let Kathryn answer the question? Or do you just like to insult me and pretend to be a know it all?
The topic is, "Why is religion a big thing in American society?" George may have been a founding father, but he is no longer a part or modern society. So, I ask again, what does G.Washington allegedly praying for four hours every morning got to do with the topic of this question?
"Well gee whiz, why can't you let Kathryn answer the question?"
You seemed to be unable to grasp the answer when it was pretty obvious.
You said: "The topic is, "Why is religion a big thing in American society?" George may have been a founding father, but he is no longer a part or modern society."
But he is a part of history and the history of a society shapes the modern society. I mean, its not rocket science and I can't understand how someone couldn't understand that.
If you don't like being insulted, then maybe you shouldn't act so rude to people.
I only did it after you went on another one of your "didn't answer the question" rants. The reality is that when you say that, it is not because the person didn't answer the question. It is because you didn't agree with the answer. The funny thing is now you go on someone else's forum/question and try to pull the same thing but you don't have the power to delete this one ; )
You ASSUME - "Um, I have to assume that she used the example of George Washington because he is a historical American figure and the question asked the why religion is a big thing in American society."
I didn't ask you for your input or opinion and I wasn't being rude.
You said: "I didn't ask you for your input or opinion and I wasn't being rude."
No one asked for your input either, but that didn't stop you. The reality is that this is an open forum. If you don't like other people opinions, then maybe you should stay in your own realm.
After America was discovered, many Europeans came to the New World to escape religious persecution, so I am sure they appreciated their freedom to practice even more. For most of us, religion is a part of our culture and customs that has been passed down from generation to generation.
As for why we hold on to this tradition unlike Europeans (I assume these are the postmodern west countries), I have no idea. I would love for someone who has an unbiased knowledge of this to come here and explain it.
It is an interesting question isn't it? Maybe because there are many more Muslims, Buddhists, etc. in Europe than the US, giving rise to the question of which one is right or are they all wrong? Or maybe the catholic/protestant fight brought the same question to light? Or the religion (Christianity, anyway) has been around there much longer and they dying off process is thus more advanced?
" Why do Americans hold on to religion when it is an outmoded principle?"
The word "outmoded" makes the finial question confusing.
Are we talking "old fashioned"? Outdated?
Propaganda, lack of common sense, and the inability to consider that they might be wrong.
Im sure there are more passive reasons from studies and such, but thats probably the more blunt way of going about describing some who rigidly hold onto religion compared to those that simply have a belief.
First things first. I am not sure if you mean all religions or are talking about Christianity only. I will answer only about Christianity.
Jesus Christ was a real man who walked, talked, and did many miracles. No one can take that away because it is truth whether you, I, or anyone believes it or not. He fulfilled many prophecies, even if no one believes it. He still speaks today to people all the time. I know many won't hear Him because they are not ready to listen to Him. This does not make me special or anyone else inferior.
Because many recognize Jesus for who he really is, they follow after Him. It is their heart's desire to please Him.
The founding fathers of this nation were believers in Christ but also believers in freedom. Many will speak of the separation of Church and state, but most misunderstand it. 1st Amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Most use this amendment against Christians to try and keep them from praying, preaching, speaking in public places, etc. . . about Jesus.
Many still believe, despite the negativity that comes from unbelievers because adversity makes a person stronger. The more anyone tries to stop believers, the stronger believers will get.
You call it outmoded, which I take to mean to be obsolete and completely useless. Many have tried to stamp out Christians right from the beginning but have failed. Eleven of the original 12 disciples were killed for their faith and preaching the Words of Jesus Christ. History tells us that many were fed to lions, burned at the stake, thrust through with swords, etc. . . Despite all the adversity, Christianity still grew. History tells us all this, if we would simply look at it with an honest eye.
I see the first amendment as keeping any one religion from passing laws to control people of other religions and philosophies. Only the U.S. Christians seem to think that the freedom of speech amendment is there to persecute Christians. It isn't.
I wasn't actually speaking about freedom of speech. It just happened to be included in the first amendment.
Don't you think that it might be possible that the reason they wrote that was to keep the government from sponsoring a "state religion," as they had in Great Britain under the King?
Certainly this was so. Why do you and other christians think it was written to persecute Christians? It wasn't. It's a mandate to protect everyone's religion, including freedom from religious statutes of anyone's religion. It was not directed towards Christians, rather it was directed toward removing all religion from secular law. Why do you want to force children to pray to a Christian god if they are not Christians?
Our wires are crossed and I think that is my fault so I apologize. The part I was speaking of earlier was the first part of the first amendment. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; Now we must discern what the founding fathers meant by religion. See my earlier post to Link on quote from founding fathers.
I've continually seen it said that most of the founding fathers were deists, not Christians specifically. Not that that stops them from being believers in Jesus, but I did feel like mentioning it.
What instance have you seen this done? Because as far as I know its not restricted to only Christians, rather than any religious people. It also has nothing to do with praying, preaching, and speaking in public places about Jesus. In a perfect, open minded world, it wouldnt matter what religious figure you want to talk about in public and you could so any day of the week. Sadly in our current world, you have the more vocal christians that only want their religion talked about and none others and will actually take steps to make ensure that. Seeing as those type also happen to run a good chunk of the government, its no real surprise that its an issue in todays world.
I feel like that would have more of an impact if Christianity didnt have such a high body count, regardless if you believe it was done by people you consider not to be true followers.
You can see, hear and read anything you want. Research says otherwise. It is easy to read things on the internet.
I see it all the time. Youtube videos of mics being cut off at the mention of the name of Jesus in High Schools. We see atheists all over the place wanting crosses removed, ten commandments removed etc. . . They say prayer was not taken out of school but let a child pray in school and see what happens.
I assume you mean the crusades., Please correct me if I am wrong. The Crusades were actually perpetuated by the Roman Catholic Church. Those who fought sold their farms, land and homes to finance the crusades. Want to guess who bought their property?
The Crusades originally were to be fought against Muslims who had taken over much of Israel. They didn't stop with fighting against Muslims. They also killed Jews and Christians who refused to give them food so they could keep on fighting.
Is there any research you can provide that specifically states the founding fathers most critical to the formation of America were specifically Christians then, since it seems thats what you are implying? There's plenty of things i can find on the internet for both sides. In fact I found something that said they weren't completely deistic, but neither were they christian.
First I've heard of it. Not to say it doesnt happen, but I have my doubts on how frequently you claim it does. Its also really easy to to screw with the audio like that for any video so I personally wouldnt have youtube as a sole reference unless its from professional channels rather than random uploaders.
If we were to ask the same people who initially put up those crosses and ten commandments in public state schools if they would allow religious symbols from say Islam or Hinduism to be allowed right next to theirs, do you they would agree to it? If they would have, we probably wouldnt be talking about it.
Umm...nothing? I rested my eyes plenty during school, but the pose I took made it look like I was praying. No one ever said anything about it, and mind you some people apparently thought I was Arabic. Moment of silence in the mornings is plenty of time to say any prayer you want. Theres 15-30 minutes during lunch periods, you could say grace for 95% of that time and no one is going to pull you aside to tell you to stop. Whoops, almost forgot the easiest time of the school day to pray...the rest of the entire school day.
What you seem to be referring to is mass praying during school, which is a completely different ball game. If it interrupts with your studies or otherwise requires people of different faiths to bend over to accommodate you, of course its going to cause issues. Those would have a higher chance of being tolerated if people didnt freak out when non christians wanted to do them, but not bat an eye when actual christians do it.
Honestly I meant in general. I guess my simple mindset just assumes that people who follow a religion of peace wouldnt feel the need to go out and kill/murder people for any reason. I also dont see why the biblical god, who is supposedly the very basis of love and forgiveness, not only doesnt bother stopping such events but defaults to killing his creation rather than finding some other, non-deathy solution.
If you take the bible literally and assume that Noah's Flood was indeed global, that right there already jacks up the bodycount to millions of people and then millions of animals.
John Adams quote: The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.
John Quincy Adams quote: My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ and I cannot cavil or quibble away [evade or object to]. . . . the whole tenor of His conduct by which He sometimes positively asserted and at others countenances [permits] His disciples in asserting that He was God.
Samuel Adams quote: I . . . [rely] upon the merits of Jesus Christ]/b] for a pardon of all my sins.
The [b]name of the Lord (says the Scripture) is a strong tower; thither the righteous flee and are safe [Proverbs 18:10]. Let us secure His favor and He will lead us through the journey of this life and at length receive us to a better.
Josiah Bartlett quote: Called on the people of New Hampshire . . . to confess before God their aggravated transgressions and to implore His pardon and forgiveness through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ . . . [t]hat the knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ may be made known to all nations, pure and undefiled religion universally prevail, and the earth be fill with the glory of the Lord.
Gunning Bedford quote: Let us enter on this important business under the idea that we are Christians on whom the eyes of the world are now turned… [L]et us earnestly call and beseech Him, for Christ’s sake, to preside in our councils. . . . We can only depend on the all powerful influence of the Spirit of God, Whose Divine aid and assistance it becomes us as a Christian people most devoutly to implore. Therefore I move that some minister of the Gospel be requested to attend this Congress every morning . . . in order to open the meeting with prayer.
You can find more at http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesar … sp?id=8755
I honestly do not have the time this morning to address everything in your post. Will be back probably later tonight. One thing I would like to mention. The word religion, how many times has the definition been changed over the last 200 years or so?
Color me surprised, someone actually provided a source when asked for it...
Although now that I think about it, I dont quite understand what your point was in mentioning that the founding fathers were believers in Christ and/or that them being specifically christian has to do with why modern America is as religious as it is. Most people dont even know who the founding fathers are let alone what their beliefs were, and it seems they made it a point not to draft the Constitution solely around their religious beliefs rather than their secular ones.
Perhaps the founding fathers were ashamed of their Christian roots. After all, it was the Christians that tried to wipe out the indigenous peoples of America. I know of at least one founding father that was ashamed of calling the Native Americans Heathens and of trying to kill them all.
Here is what I see. Atheists say that the God of the Bible is evil because He does not get rid of bad things. When he does get rid of evil, they say He is evil because He gets rid of evil. It is a no win situation, in the eyes of atheists.
Im by no means an expert on any and all possible arguments that are out there, but I've never seen anyone say that.
It also sounds like you might not have said that properly or maybe didnt elaborate on it, otherwise I would have to question what kind of idiot would ever say something like that...
What sounds like a more likely scenario is that atheists call the biblical god evil because he allows evil to exist, period. As long as evil exists, the argument can be made that god is evil as well if he is considered all powerful. There really isn't any justification for allowing evil to exist that causes tremendous harm to mankind while maintaining the position of an all loving and forgiving father figure.
It is very possible that I misunderstood what I wrote about above.
I would have to ask, where do we draw the line? How much evil does God have to stop? What I mean is, does He only stop a murderer from killing someone, a rapist from raping someone, a thief from stealing? What about those who fantasize about killing, raping or stealing? Does He keep them from having those thoughts?
I do say that I also am not an expert on any of these things we are discussing but I do know about God and the Holy Bible. I am reading material on nearly every reply I have given in this thread, though some, (a small part), I already knew.
Seeing as how I dont feel like dealing with the headache from the mental gymnastics I would have to sift through if someone were to bring it up, I'll say this with the free will defense already in mind.
He doesnt have to stop the acts from being committed. Common sense says that would be the preferred route to go, but not wholly necessary.
What I would expect instead is either god directly warns the would be criminal of the consequences of following through with the crime which would be carried out the moment all is said and done, or have undeniable universal laws set in place stating the punishments for X crime which again would be immediately carried out when all is said and done.
I'm either being completely ignorant about something, or its really just that simple.
It's up to you if you want to think on it or not. The Holy Bible has spoken on what the punishment is. The wages of sin (wickedness) is death. There will always be someone who doesn't believe it. It is that simple so you are not ignorant.
Pretty overkill judgement to pass on someone for one with the power to completely negate the act or take some action to avoid it but doesnt bother to do so. Seeing as how people dont instantly drop dead after sinning, I am going to assume you mean a "get sent to hell/be denied heaven" kind of death. Convenient that punishment for evil committed during life is only addressed after death, makes it alot harder to assert or refute the legitimacy of that. One would think that would explain why there is so much unchecked "sin" in the world. Crowd control would be second nature if Immediate divine punishment that fits the crime committed was a thing. Can even keep the concepts of heaven and hell while simultaneously making them a completely non-mental ultimatum that originally has always been based on a "maybe".
Undeniable universal evidence would solve that real quick. Several thousand gods, hundreds of thousands if not millions of different religions, religions of the same belief that cannot agree with itself, and a plethora of people who have no belief at all kind of goes to show that whatever you consider real evidence for your own beliefs is not considered universal evidence for all. It would be dishonest of anyone to say that all those people are running from the "real truth". Not only was I told that by someone just a few days ago, but I see that as a default response to other people's different beliefs and am always surprised at such stupid logic.
It all depends upon choice. You choose to not believe it. This is called free will. Everyone has the freedom to choose. No one has to die that death but many will because they choose to not believe it.
You call it stupid logic but it is logical that a Holy God has to pass judgment on a wicked and evil person.
We seem to have hit a wall with our discussion here. I still see what I said I saw earlier. Stop the evilness that I want but not all of it and stop it in the way I want it stopped, not the way God wants it stopped= an atheist view.
"You call it stupid logic but it is logical that a Holy God has to pass judgment on a wicked and evil person."
That is a very illogical statement. Especially when no one has ever been able to prove that this god actually exists. And the god represented in the bible is guilty of so many evil acts that he would have no right to pass judgement on anything. (Murdering every man, woman, child, baby, animal, and plant life on the entire planet makes this god genocidal). And let's not get into that discussion because it has been done to death. Literally.
I would never trust the judgement of a genocidal psychopath like the god of the bible.
You just proved my point, (Stop the evilness that I want but not all of it and stop it in the way I want it stopped, not the way God wants it stopped= an atheist view.) The Bible says that man was evil continually. Violence and wickedness had taken over the hearts and minds of men. Noah preached for 120 years while he built the ark, but none of them repented. God gave all men space to repent, which shows His mercy, but they refused the mercies of God and chose to not believe that God was going to do what He said He would. They made the choice for themselves and for their children also.
The people who were kicked out of England because of their religious beliefs were religious fundamentalists, who were completely beyond the pale as far as their religious beliefs went. It's not like they were "normal" Christians. They wanted a society ruled only by religious law.
When the Constitution was written, it was with great care, and attention to the fact that people should have religious freedom, to worship as they believe. The founding Fathers also thought that the Constitution should be re-looked at and revised every 20 years, to see if it was still relevant to society.
It would have been great if that happened, and the Constitution kept up with a growing and changing society with different problems and issues facing it.
I don't believe there is a "War on Religion", many people in America are religious. I think for people who are not, and believe in the separation of Church and State, we are sick of having Christian religion stuffed down our throats, having outdated Bible quotes thrown at us, and the like. I've read the Torah and New Testament, and there is a lot of wonderful advice there, and I believe Jesus was truly a revolutionary with his message of love. But I don't like people trying to force their beliefs on me, just as the English didn't like it and threw the fundamentalists out of the country.
It's important to remember the Bible was written by Man, not God, and so Man edited it as he chose. I don't believe in Heaven and Hell, or that there's a big man on a throne in one place, and one dancing in fire in another. It's silly. Every story needs a bad guy and a good guy.
Thanks GM, for raising another thought provoking issue.
I choose not to believe it for the same reason I choose not to believe in any other religion's god, there is nothing about any of them that makes them more likely to exist let alone be true over all the others. A good chunk of them seem to be ripped off from previous versions of a god anyway. Theres always holes in the logic for their existence, absolute existence would have no holes (especially if all powerful is an attribute) so the default assumption should be "This could be right, but it could be wrong". Anything else is dishonest.
Unless im misunderstanding this, Thats not the logic I called stupid. The logic that is stupid is saying that anyone who doesnt agree with my beliefs are clearly running away from what I "know" is true even though I have nothing to show for its validity.
Makes perfect sense for me for a god to pass judgement on his creation, im not really sure what part of what I said implied that I thought otherwise. I just dont agree that the judgement should only be passed after everyone dies. There is no lesson learned for those that are still alive because they cannot see whether or not judgement is actually being passed and whether or not it is the judgement they think it should be.
And here is what I see in most christian views: accept that god created all the good in the world and thank him for it. Look at the bad and completely ignore it, blame it on Satan, or say it all happens for a reason completely unknown to us since we can never hope to understand god, but still pretend that we know exactly how he thinks when its convenient.
Im sorry, I would rather be selfish in applying common sense to a god that supposedly gave me the ability to use my brain than be delusional by assuming anyone who doesnt agree with me is wrong and/or going to suffer for eternity because they dont believe in my god who isnt capable of basic sense.
Fortunately, not all christians/religious people think that way. Unfortunately, those that dont are a minority.
I came across this 2012 Gallup study list of the "Top 10 Countries With Most Religious People". Here I thought for sure American would be on that list, but it is not. http://www.therichest.com/expensive-lif … us-people/
Also, a Gallup study that shows the countries with the most religious people and the least. Its an eye opener for anyone who cares to look at the map and see the graphs. Two thirds of the global population consider themselves to be religious.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … tries.html
What do you make of the recent survey showing that the "nones" (Americans with no religious affiliation) being on the increase?
I would be interested in reading that "recent survey" if you happen to have a link. My guess is I would not make anything of the "nones" being on the rise if that is a fact then it is a personal choice I hope. The Islamic religion is on the rise which makes no difference to me but did surprise me for some reason I am not sure of (an eye opener).
This is interesting to read. To me anyway.
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/amer … landscape/
Because most Americans would rather live in a nation that under the influence of belief in spirituality , hold higher standards of compassion , care , concern , philanthropist attitudes and is more spiritually connected to society around them .
I'd rather be at a dinner table full of evangelist's than full of atheist's , first ,they would pass the dishes before taking their own serving !
I would rather be at a dinner table with people who are thankful for the hard work and effort by real people who put food on the table rather that saying meaningless words up into the sky thanking superstition.
Real humans provide the food we eat. They are the ones who should be appreciated.
And real humans provide higher standards of compassion , care , concern , philanthropist attitudes - spirituality is imagined, it's not real, honest, human labor.
Honestly, this one has me baffled. Most first-world countries seem to be less religion-based than the US. We are an anomaly. It seems to be a tough tradition to eradicate here for some reason.
42% of Americans are Creationists. That seems like a really high number, but it keeps showing up when I look at the stats.
Thanks Janesix, didn't know that. WOW, simply WOW! Didn't know that the percentage of Creationists are THAT HIGH! We're indeed in BIG TROUBLE!
I'm glad I live in the Pacific Northwest, where it's "OK" to be an atheist. No one seems to make a big deal of religion.
The coastal regions are more liberal in terms of spiritual and ethical expression than the Midwest, Southern, and Southwestern states when religiosity is very, even extremely prevalent. The South is not called THE BIBLE BELT for nothing. There seems to be high religiosity in the South.
Seen about right, nearly Half of Americans, believe the world is only 10,000 years old.
And what's worse is that Creationists want their views taught to children in spite of several proven sciences that prove that the Earth is millions of years old, not 6,000 years old and it wasn't created in six days, it was created during Billions of years of natural law. Seriously, there are still dogmatic people that believe in Creationism. They refuse to accept reality.
So, what do atheists say about how everything began? Did it start by itself? Has the universe always existed?
You said it was created. How was it created? Was it an impersonal cause that created it? What was it created from? Of course you could have used the wrong word.
Maybe one day soon I will show you what an atheistic government looks like. Bed time right now for me.
without conferring with the originator of all we see and all we are... we are sunk.
I never said it was "created" - You did.
YOU are making the claim that creationism is real when several branches of science prove that the Earth is billions of years old.
I don't even care how the Earth was created. I have no power over physics. We are talking about teaching faulty reasoning in public schoold. If you want to teach children that "God" created the world in six days, then feel free to do so - just not in a public school setting where other people are trying to learn reality.
The words in the Bible represent reality and do not teach scientifically.
For instance the snake of the "garden of eden" refers to the kundalini energy going up and down the spine. "Light" refers to the energy of the body and the essence of spirit. The strange ideas/images in Revelation refer to scientific/esoteric teachings of metaphysical principles.
Throughout time, not all were ready for more realistic or scientific understanding of Reality. The words of the Bible were issued to the people of their time and consciousness. Today, we are demanding that Science, Truth and Reality be explained directly. There are sources which explain the Bible. Eventually all people will catch on. And the darkness that still lingers will be dispelled.
Even then, there will be treacherous evils that will become harder and harder to resist unless we are grounded in higher consciousness achieved through self-effort.
The Way I See It
Some believers and non-believers take the six day creation story in Genesis literally. It seems people in generally will never be able to agree on the six days account.
I do not believe it is designed to be taken literally. I do not mean to step on anyone's toes that believes it literally.
This is a very good article to read on the six days. People can decide for themselves what they want to believe or not believe. https://www.gci.org/bible/genesis/sixdays
Hmmmm. I didn't think I said anything about 6 days. is it better to teach them fairy tales about evolution instead?
Evolution= something came from nothing for no purpose at all. It just exists and that's it.
What is reality? Not asking for an opinion but seeking the truth.
You said it was created. If it was a mistake, say so and we can get past it.
Where do natural laws come from?
I assume you mean me when you talk of dogmatic people who believe in creationism. I ask again, what is reality?
Seriously, why can't people focus on the very real problems of the world today instead of trying to prove they are right about creationism or religion? Who cares how we got here? We're here, we're queer (as In odd) and we need to be focusing on solving issues that are killing us off as well as all the other species on earth. We need to learn to get along and stop all the killing.
You might appreciate the substance of George Washington's prayers:
"Direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the lamb, and purge my heart by thy Holy Spirit, from the dross of my natural corruption, that I may with more freedom of mind and liberty of will serve thee, the ever lasting God, in righteousness and holiness this day, and all the days of my life."
"Increase my faith in the sweet promises of the Gospel. Give me repentance from dead works. Pardon my wanderings, & direct my thoughts unto thyself, the God of my salvation. Teach me how to live in thy fear, labor in thy service, and ever to run in the ways of thy commandments. Make me always watchful over my heart, that neither the terrors of conscience, the loathing of holy duties, the love of sin, nor an unwillingness to depart this life, may cast me into a spiritual slumber. But daily frame me more and more into the likeness of thy son Jesus Christ, that living in thy fear, and dying in thy favor, I may in thy appointed time attain the resurrection of the just unto eternal life. Bless my family, friends & kindred unite us all in praising & glorifying thee in all our works begun, continued, and ended, when we shall come to make our last account before thee blessed Saviour, who hath taught us thus to pray, our Father."
http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/Prayer … rayer.aspx
Well, I certainly do appreciate George Washinton's life and principles. But my point is that, although he may have been a religious person, his actions, not prayers, are what enabled this country to progress. He literally became the father of this country by doing the necessary actions to build its foundation. Certainly, it seems, that prayer helped him to make decisions, perhaps even made him the man he became, but only through hard work and perseverance, did he achieve what he set out to do. And while its true that Washington had many religious values, they were the values of the times and they included owning slaves and treating women like inferior humans.
Today's society is much better, or don't you agree?
Here is his inauguration speech. I find it pretty interesting.
https://www.papermasters.com/george-was … peech.html
"He notes that "Heaven" will smile down upon the United States if the nation follows Heaven's "eternal rules of order and right".
Yes. This is it:
Freedom AND Boundaries are two sides of the same coin.
This precept is practical AND it is spiritual. (Also, two sides of the same coin.)
Thanks, BizWhiz. It is truly great to be able to hear the speech written by the "Father of Our Country." Thanks for providing us this opportunity.
I think it answers to gm's question just fine.
the American people have deep reverence. They always will.
And as far a mistreating slaves and women… that is a myth. George Washington freed his slaves before he died and had great sympathy for them. He showed this by keeping families together. He was a victim of his times as he had been exposed to those ways. Slaves actually contributed to the birth of this nation if you want to look at it carefully. Then they were freed.
I am sure Martha Washington had no complaints.
Thank you for posting that TheBizWhiz! Wow!
Yes. It is amazing the history that people try to bury when they have an agenda.
Responding to the part I set in bold font. The problem is that we as a species have forgotten all about God and refuse to even acknowledge Him. When we get back to the beginning, the way it was in the Garden of Eden, we will then see the earth healed.
"instead of trying to prove they are right about creationism or religion." This is a major subject. If creationism is right, then there is a God.
"Who cares how we got here?" It is obvious that every atheist I ever conversed with cares how we got here. I see them constantly speaking of the big bang, even Stephen Hawking saying the universe created itself simply because of the law of gravity.
"We need to learn to get along and stop all the killing." I agree but how do we get along when my brothers and sisters are murdered in other countries because of what they believe? It will get as bad in the US also if something isn't done to stop it. A little freedom taken away here, a little there and before you know it, it is against the law to even speak at all.
Natural laws are physical laws that exist in nature (the universe) that can be defined and cannot be broken by natural means. Hence, the Law of Gravity or the Laws of motion and inertia.
1. summarize a large collection of facts determined by experiment into a single statement,
2. can usually be formulated mathematically as one or several statements or equation, or at least stated in a single sentence, so that it can be used to predict the outcome of an experiment, given the initial, boundary, and other physical conditions of the processes which take place,
3. are strongly supported by empirical evidence - they are scientific knowledge that experiments have repeatedly verified (and never falsified). Their accuracy does not change when new theories are worked out, but rather the scope of application, since the equation (if any) representing the law does not change. As with other scientific knowledge, they do not have absolute certainty (as mathematical theorems or identities do), and it is always possible for a law to be overturned by future observations.
4. are often quoted as a fundamental controlling influence rather than a description of observed facts, e.g. "the laws of motion require that..."
And by "created", I mean the universe was "assembled" with matter and energy that has always existed, exists now, and always will exist - Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. This is a Law of Physics.
Also, I have written many hubs on these subjects and I see no reason to keep repeating myself. So, please do some research before asking me the same questions over and over.
Thanks for clearing up the confusion on what you meant by creation.
So, if I am correct in my understanding, you are saying that matter and energy came together and the universe was created. It makes me think of the Swiss Watch parts and the spinning tub. SPin it long enough and the parts will become a working watch.
Have you ever bought a cabinet or a shelf that required assembly? It takes the right tools, knowledge and someone to assemble it. It doesn't get unwrapped from the box and ready for use.
Assembly of the stars took place first, I think, although the whole universe could have assembled and disassembled an infinite number of times, we have no way of knowing that. Matter, energy, and space were never created, the universe is made of Infinite matter + infinite energy and takes up an Infinite amount of space.
After an unknowable amount of time we have humans who are able to manufacture furniture that can be assembled.
No one is saying that furniture assembles itself.
And humans are the natural end result of billions of years of evolution. We know this by studying geology, paleotology, biological processes, and through a few other scientific studies that are repeatable and verifyable by peers. These results are also subject to falsification by anyone. If a theory can be found to be false, it is researched and corrected.
These are the reasons I look at the world through my scientist eyes.
I need to study a bit more on this in order to give an intelligent reply. I will say what comes to mind right now is a quote by Stephen Hawkings and what I think about it. "Because of the law of gravity, the universe had to create itself." The quote is not exact, I wrote it from memory. This is what I think about what he said. If the law of gravity is infinite, the universe itself is infinite. If the universe is infinite, all usable energy used would be depleted. The universe needs usable energy in order to be sustained.
Since the law of gravity is contained within the universe itself, it cannot have caused the universe to come into existence.
The bit about furniture was merely given as an example.
Seriously, Biz - are you two years old? This is not a game. It's supposed to be a serious discussion. I did reply with what I meant by "created by natural laws". And I have written hubs on the subject of physics and how the Universe is the way it is.
I appreciate the encouragement but this was unnecessary.
I asked her a question because I was curious about her answer. This is called being inquisitive. You, on the other hand jumped in and stated "assuming" things incorrectly and just start insulting me for asking her a question. How did you "earn" that "helpful" accolad again? Certainly not by being rude to people.
George Washington is a historical American figure. History shapes modern times. I'm sorry if I find it hard to believe that any adult with an IQ over 85 cannot understand the relevance of her reference. It just sounds like nitpicking to me, but I'm sorry if I jumped to conclusions.
Why do you assume that I do not understand? I wanted Katherine to help explain it to all of us here. Inserting an unsubstantiated claim about Washington praying for four hours a day is the equivalent of spreading false rumors. Is it true, or just a made up thing about our first President. It also really doesn't have anything to do with this topic unless she can justify it in some way.
Grace states, "Out of all postmodern Western countries, America is the most religious. Why do Americans hold on to religion when it is an outmoded principle?"
Is this due to Washington's alleged prayer habits? and why would someone think that it does? Is Katherine trying to say that because Washington may have prayed a lot, it somehow has a bearing on modern society? Or is she saying something entirely different? That's what I want to know. I don't assume that she meant what you seem to think it means.
Wow. You really need a lot of stuff explained to you.
If having a discussion with you has so many rules, you should include a disclaimer that states;
"When making a statement, be sure to include an abstract and supply references. This will ensure that I don't get confused and know PRECISELY what you are talking about. Otherwise I will just assume you are not answering the question that was asked. DISMISSED!"
You can go to legal.com and have something like that drafted just so we are all on the same page.
wow, talk about over-reacting and making mountains out of molehills. I asked ANOTHER person (not you) a simple question, and all I get from you are insults. You are now going on my list of people to never talk to again.
Why Washington is "the Father of our Country"
http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/BibleS … olson.aspx
I believe President Washing could pray for four hours on his knees in the snow out in the woods. He survived the winter of 1777 at Valley Forge.
This is the quote from your link - "The farmer happened upon General Washington, alone and on his knees in the snow. He was praying to God while tears ran down his cheeks."
I'm confused as to why this causes a person to "believe" that Washington would "pray for four hours daily".
The farmer only witnessed one prayer and for an unknown duration of time.
So, how does that become "four hours daily"?
This is the sort of Chinese whisper that gets turned into a legend. And the reason that people who deal in facts do not trust these sorts of statements.
Yes, I prefer true, clear, and precise comments. I'm not sure why that makes me such a pariah.
Always the same ones.....ho - hum!
The only people who seem to wonder why do so many grasp religion in the western culture are those who always ask the same thing , except in different wording . Those who profess that they don't- won't - and you can't make them believe or simply have faith ! Don't you guys get tired of asking the questions that YOU argue the very answers to this question that you get ????
Strange, I could say the same thing of religious dogma.
Ya right , except you don't hear half as much about dissing religion from theists as you do from atheists !
If you were to ask a conservative christian (a theist) what they think about Islam (religion), you would probably get a bunch of unfounded hate speech (dissing)...probably way more than any atheist would ever make even against legitimate parts of religion that are horrendous.
You think the United States is the most religious country in the West? LOL, I guess you've never heard of a region called Latin America.
Almighty God, and most merciful father, who didst command the children of Israel to offer a daily sacrifice to thee, that thereby they might glorify and praise thee for thy protection both night and day, receive, O Lord, my morning sacrifice which I now offer up to thee; I yield thee humble and hearty thanks that thou has preserved me from the danger of the night past, and brought me to the light of the day, and the comforts thereof, a day which is consecrated to thine own service and for thine own honor. Let my heart, therefore, Gracious God, be so affected with the glory and majesty of it, that I may not do mine own works, but wait on thee, and discharge those weighty duties thou requirest of me, and since thou art a God of pure eyes, and wilt be sanctified in all who draw near unto thee, who doest not regard the sacrifice of fools, nor hear sinners who tread in thy courts, pardon, I beseech thee, my sins, remove them from thy presence, as far as the east is from the west, and accept of me for the merits of thy son Jesus Christ, that when I come into thy temple, and compass thine altar, my prayers may come before thee as incense; and as thou wouldst hear me calling upon thee in my prayers, so give me grace to hear thee calling on me in thy word, that it may be wisdom, righteousness, reconciliation and peace to the saving of the soul in the day of the Lord Jesus. Grant that I may hear it with reverence, receive it with meekness, mingle it with faith, and that it may accomplish in me, Gracious God, the good work for which thou has sent it. Bless my family, kindred, friends and country, be our God & guide this day and for ever for his sake, who lay down in the Grave and arose again for us, Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.
http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/prayer … rning.aspx
"Washington dutifully recorded the words of advice his mother, Mary, gave him when he was leaving home to begin what would turn out to be a lifelong service to his country. She instructed her son with these words: “Remember that God is our only one trust. To Him, I commend you … My son, neglect not the duty of secret prayer.” And did George Washington heed his mother‘s admonition? Of course he did. Throughout his life, whether while a young man, Commander-in-Chief of the Continental Army, or President of the United States, George Washington showed, by example, how meaningful were his mother’s teachings. He’d stand up at promptly 9:00 pm, take his candle, and go off by himself. There, from 9:00pm to 10:00pm, he wouldn’t be seen. He was alone on his knees in front of a chair praying. A candle stood on a stand next to the chair. And his Bible was open before him. This he would do even when guests were present. Then promptly at 10:00pm, he would emerge and go directly to his bedroom. He’d get up every morning at 4:00am, and spend another hour in the same room. He could be found kneeling before the same chair, in the same posture, with the same Bible open before him. Washington never, no matter what the circumstances, received visitors on Sunday, with one exception, a Godly friend named Trumbel. They would spend time reading the Bible and praying together."
"The paintings of George Washington kneeling in prayer in the snow covered woods of Valley Forge" are based on fact. http://www.history.com/photos/george-washington/photo8#
"We have all probably heard of his prayer that was overheard by a Quaker, a pacifist, a Tory – a man loyal to the Crown. This man returned home shaken and said to his wife: “Our cause is lost! I came unexpectedly in the woods upon a man who was kneeling in prayer. As I drew closer, I heard his voice. I heard the impassioned plea of his prayers and saw the tears on his cheeks. I knew our cause was lost.” The Quaker and his wife were so overwhelmed that they became supporters of Washington and the American cause. When Washington took his oath of office as President of the United States, he subsequently bent forward and kissed the Bible on which he had just taken his oath. The Bible was opened to the Book of Genesis. He then led the Senate and the House of Representatives to the church for a two hour worship service."
http://www.amazon.com/George-Washington … YRRDV6AV1V
Please explain what you mean by "outmoded principle."
Religion is very big thing in every society not only America.
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