You god botherers will be pleased to know that rather than annoying people by knocking on their door at 7 in the morning, the Chicago atheists prefer to have a lie in and spread the love by advertising on buses instead.
If you would like to donate to this worthy cause, here is their website:
(Bloomington, Indiana, May 7, 2009) The Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign (INABC) recently filed a suit against the Bloomington Public Transportation Corporation (BPTC) for refusing to run a bus advertisement that states “You Can Be Good Without God.” The Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign’s slogan was rejected by the BPTC because it was deemed “controversial,” in violation of company policy. The Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign in their suit argued that the BPTC’s policy and the refusal of their ad was a violation of INABC’s First and Fourteenth Amendment rights.
“Bloomington Transit, which is a municipal bus service, should embrace our nation’s cherished tradition of freedom of ideas and revise its policy of censorship,” said Roy Speckhardt, executive director of the American Humanist Association, the organization that designed the ad and has been working with the Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign. “The fact that people can be good without belief in a god is simply a statement of fact. Our humanist and atheist communities are made up of people who are peaceful, law-abiding and good Samaritans. They’re true to their families and true to their principles--just like members of religious communities."
The suit argues that BPTC’s policy, which allows it to refuse any advertisement which it deems to be a “statement of position in support of or in opposition to controversial issues,” gives the BPTC unbridled discretion to censor unpopular opinions. The policy against "controversial" advertisements is unconstitutionally vague, unreasonable and overbroad, and thus should be enjoined, INABC argues. “We made every reasonable effort to come to a solution with the transit company by means of discussions with the city attorney, but we were still rebuffed,” said Charlie Sitzes, an INABC spokesperson.
The intent of the Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign’s ad is to let like-minded people know they are not alone and that there are others with whom they can join together. “It isn’t an attack on religion but an affirmation of a different point of view,” Sitzes added. “The only way a person could remotely construe the message as harmful and too controversial even to be seen is if it conflicts with a pre-conceived and false belief that atheism is wicked and immoral. It’s too bad that such prejudice is still so prevalent in America."
The Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign is one of a series of prominent nontheistic bus ad campaigns around the world. The American Humanist Association ran a bus ad in Washington, DC, that read “Why Believe in a God? Just be Good for Goodness’ Sake,” and similar bus ads have gone up in Britain, Canada and Spain. But there have been two campaigns, in Australia and Italy, that met the same resistance Indiana is encountering.
The attorneys for the plaintiff are Kenneth Falk of the ACLU of Indiana and cooperating attorney Paul Newman of Bloomington. The suit, Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign v. Bloomington Public Transportation Corporation, was filed in federal court in the Indianapolis Division of the United States District Court.
A PDF of the complaint can be found online at:
http://www.americanhumanist.org/system/ … plaint.pdf
The rantings of atheism shows how controversial they could be. Too many arguements by atheism have made them a question mark(?) Mark, how do you see the atheist slogan as related to this; "Mr Mark Knowles is a wise woman" May be it could be argued out by the atheists in the house if you're a wise woman or man. Is it that not really funny.
Why do you hate truth and honesty so much Andrew? I didn't really understand your point either.
What truth and honesty do i hate, tell me Mark? Is it that atheism always turn truth upside down with their beautiful lies and sentiments. Why are they worried about the Scriptures they do not believe but enjoy misquoting it? That simply means calling a man a woman, calling a white color black color which equals to lies and gross dishonesty.
The truth that man created god - not the other way around.
I thought God never existed in your imagination and life here on earth, how come in the beginning the man atheist created Nil.
Beautiful lies of atheism!
How can man create god when we have so much trouble creating and getting rid of human life? The chicken defintily came before the egg and god definitely came before the human...
or do paintings also have no artist mr. mark
Easy - you just say the magic word and have an easy answer to the unanswerable. There is no god. It is a figment of your imagination that is trying desperately to give some meaning to your life and prove that you are more important than you are.
Paintings? What sort of a lame argument is that? A painting has a painter therefore there must be a god? Surely you can do better than that?
haha the paintings thing wasn't really my argument it was my humor.
Ok i agree that the name God is what we have given to describe what we truly do not understand and fathom...lets put away his name for a moment.
Do you think that humans control the mysteries of the universe? Simple things such as rain, the way all things in a flower come together to work perfectly, how the insides of the human body work to keep a man living...and so on and so forth
No. And because we think we have to control everything - we have invented an invisible super being that does.
And now we are fighting over who has the best invisible super being that has said that our tribe is the mightiest tribe.
Once you let go of your ego that says you have to control everything - it is really easy to see that there is no super being controlling everything.
And once you do that you can see the invisible super being for what it really is. A construct to control the ignorant and scared.
Let's face it - it is a really easy answer. It requires no proof. It has hidden more atrocities than I can think about and people are killing each other over it to this day.
Despite the fact that it makes no sense - most people seem to accept this easy answer because then they do not need to think about what happens after they die. Easy - they are going to a better place and all the people who did not do what they did are going to a bad place.
Once you look at the marvelous complexity of nature - and understand the evolutionary process, it is clear as a bell that there is no person controlling things. No one is pushing a button to make it rain. No one is controlling how a flower comes to be.
Why is it so important to you to think that there is? Does it frighten you to think that these things developed naturally and there is no one controlling things for you?
That the best you can do? Another inane one line contradictory question. I will be glad when they get rid of the forum top ten list - maybe it will put a stop to that.
Its just a question, Mark. Not a competition or something. Does the possibility frighten you?
Does the evolutionary process state how everything came to be? Is it the Big Bang? What created the elements that created the Big Bang? Can something come from nothing? If so, what sparked the creation of that something?
This is a curiosity question as I have neither the desire nor inclination to try to "convert" or "be converted". I just have never heard the theory's explanation of how the whole process began, just that somehow humans came from amoebas and somehow the process is finished once humans were evolved.
As far as believing God goes - why does believing in God = God pushing buttons to make flowers bloom? That makes no sense to me. Why is it not simply believing that God created the complexities of nature, even if you don't believe it? What's makes it HAVE to be the "push button" argument?
Mark, it is not true man created God. Man is unable to create even order from the mess we are in.
Man created religion, not God.
My friend Mark, this sentence I heard in Soviet Union before 1950. You are quoting Marxists.
Vladimir is a lazy person and I think he is not telling the truth about his reading the books of all the major religiouns. He boasts lots, but when asked and told about the verses in teh Bible on his hub--he says that he is much older than I and he read those books way before I was born. He also claimed that he would not read the Bible again to get those verses that I btrought up. I grow tired of his rhetoric and circular arguments. Yes, arguements because the very first time that I encountered him, and of course my message was deleted off of the first hub, that I was in of his, was that he would use me as a challenge.
He also tried to get me to tell him who my mentor is and that he had to know this in order for him or anyone to be a student of mine. I think he is blowing smoke and has nothing to back up his claims!
Well, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and feel sorry for him instead. It is difficult to break away from early indoctrination I must admit. If he keeps it up, I will start making fun of him. That is what I do with all the other religionists.
I'm in an Oscar Wilde mood today, "I think that God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability."
What a very parochial view - surely the British ones were first?
Mr Knowles I was horribly alarmed for a moment. Your name, attached to a post in the Religion forum - and the OP ...
*wipes brow* Phew - you're just handing out some unsolicitated guidance ...
I think what you really mean is;
"In the beginning God created man. There-after man created Religion".
I don't care if you argue against religion, (don't care for it much myself), but pitting yourself against God ? ? ? I'll let Him handle that Himself.
No dj, that is not what I meant. I said what I meant.
So,if there is no God, then it's man that kills man. So your constant harping on religion being the cause of all our current and past woes is null and void!
Which one are you really agains? God, or religion?
There is no such thing as god dj - so I cannot be "against" something that does not exist can I?
I was just sharing the good news that atheists have decided not to go the god-pusher's route of knocking on your door - except John Saffran who went to Salt Lake City to spread the word:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Mormons-are-not … Christians
Funny! You really like arguements. A typical life of an atheist
You (obviously) haven't met Him. Here's an invitation for you.
Very nice dj. People who don't believe in god are wrong, ignorant and arrogant. And if I would just change my opinion to be the same as yours I would see I am wrong. Very persuasive.
Please DON'T be like me. Don't even have my opinions. Just meet Him! That was the invitation.
dj - I have met what I think you guys call god. Bring you to your knees, vibrations emanating from your core that connect to everything else and fill you with a strong sense of belonging sort of thing. Very powerful - so powerful in fact that I have to consciously break the connection or I would spend all my time contemplating it and in fact when I am strongly connected, I can barely function in the real world.
And it is not a separate entity, it doesn't have a personality, it most certainly does not have a set of rules written in a book, and definitely did not send it's only son to save us from the sin we are born into.
And it most certainly does not need a bunch of religionists pushing their particular version of what they think it told them - which invariably happens to be what they already thought anyway.
You are sadly mistaken dj. There is no personal god. I read your hub and you seem to be missing a massive point - without this personal god you have concocted - there would be no religion. It is all in your head and your book is a religionist book written by religionists.
And to be perfectly frank - you do not think evolution happens despite the massive amount of evidence in front of you.
How am I supposed to take anything else you say seriously?
Pretty much my view on things - I have been there, too
I have been where Mark has been too. I have made a testimony of that here on Hubpages as well.
Jesus and God are NOT who the religions say they are--period. It was Paul(A Man, A Roman Soldier) who said that Jesus would come *IF* more people were saved. Jesus nor God says these things. Now go research Paul and who he really was and how he just wanted control because he was brought up that way. Just as you religionist have been brought up like that it is very difficlut -- But NOT impossible--to see things differently then what you have been taught to think. Jesus nor God are judgmental..........man is very much that and more.
Oh, a banner on the side of a bus is supposed to be persuasive?
You're right, man created religion. Religion is not God and God is not religion. I wonder why anyone will be so worried about what he/she do not believe and cared about in the name of self?
Isn't ATHEISM just against Doctrine of Chruch ( sorry I keep having this slip that church is a chruch )and not anything else? So why is Doctrine so much holier than anything else? Who wrote Doctrine.............man.
Sorry if I'm interrupting a good (or bad) argument. I just wanted to say that I grew up in South Bend, Indiana, and there have been these obnoxious billboards all over town for years--these billboards that are just a black background and a white lettered quote from God, except God is always saying something really dick-ish, something that isn't in scripture or anywhere, it's just rude and unpleasant and mildly threatening.
Anyway, I don't see why atheists can't have equal time.
If God can put big "I'm a dick" billboards all over Indiana to threaten nonbelievers into compliance, why can't atheists put billboards on buses that feature purdy flowers?
Can you give an example of what some billboards said? And God did not put up those billboards, humans did.
----or they could be God Inspired! Just like the Bible....hmmmmm?
Yeah, Pam, I guess we are just supposed to ignore anything obnoxious--as it's our own problem, --just like homeless people.
That's my smart-butt comment for the day. lol Now off to corporate land.
Here's what I think, and this goes especially to my man, aka dj. Don't waste too much time trying to convince an atheist that God exists. Chances are you won't succeed. I would say 10 out of 10. Whats more, it almost always turns into something unpleasant. Almost always. And you help not achieving anything the process. Lastly, if God doesn't exist, well happy for them. But if he does (which I'm darn well sure he does),then who do you think we'll have the last laugh when everyone stands in front of this majestic throne, in this tabernacle able to room billions of people, and angels countless...who do you think will have the last laugh? I just think its all well and good for atheists now. Its the perfect time for them to thrive. Its the New Age. Its the Age of Aquarius. Greetings.
I think Mark is making a positive contribution by focusing on it. I would but I have not the patience or the energy.
The religious right is a real threat to peace and liberty right now. If they would shut up and mind their own business I'll bet Mark would too.
The part about Mark talking about a Green House growing tomatoes kills me, lol.
My dad is like Victor Meldrew so we got him a greenhouse, we kept getting loads of tomatoe plants so he would stay up there longer and longer, then we even gave him money and told him it was off neighbours so he could be gone a bit longer delivering his tomatoes... Then we got him hens so he could stay out and look after them too and deliver eggs.Still moaned when he came back but we had a few hours of peace a day...
I am actually getting a bit scared now, if my dad takes a long time to answer something I am usually in big trouble...
Mark you know I love you and your brothers dog sorry!!!!!!!
Well, this may come as a bit of a shock, but I have other things to do as well. I have written 41 hubs in the last two weeks, I also write this luxury real estate blog for a living and run a bunch of my own blogs.
And I am in no way offended - so don't you worry. I happen to think spending some of my time arguing against religionists is a worthwhile expense of energy. I wouldn't do it if I didn't think so.
@ Pam - damn right I would.
And lest we forget:
From the evidence available here his fear would seem to define him almost entirely.
The pattern of believers and prejudging something they have no idea what it is all about-----the person whom they don't understand is angry with the church, then they are afraid of something, then they are tried to be converted or re-converted, then they are called names. It's a pattern with those who are indoctrinated without thinking on their own.
How is it "pre" judging to judge a person on his own words after he has repeated the same simplistic, bigoted nonsense over and over and over again? More like "post" judging.
What fear is that? I've never known Mark to fear a personal god.
I do know that some people need to be saved from themselves, perhaps that's what Marks 'job' is - helping you open your eyes a bit. Just a thought. Always good to be open and lateral in thought. Blind faith is dangerous and when people live their lives as if they have nothing behind their words, but seem to speak allot, the gullible need some form of protection.
Fear of authority (like some petulant child), fear of the idea that he is not really God himself, fear that something exists outside his own ego that he cannot understand but that affects him and everything else without his 'permission' nonetheless, and a general fear that he might possibly be less impressed with himself for even a second.
Why would I be afraid of this? This would be awesome ! Does it come with a perfect place to live in for all eternity and that would mean I don't have to die as long as I follow the rules you have for me? Fantastic ! And is the god you speak of on my side against all the heathens and unbelievers, who are clearly fools?
Love this idea ! If I wasn't cursed with the ability to think for myself, I would sign up tomorrow and start going to war to protect this god.
It does not mean someone talk too much is wise enough. The faith is not blind at all if we have right information. The faith is always there, everything outside of our visual field.
Looked at some of the other sites, so you are very busy...
Thinking about becoming a fan .......
Brenda- I agree with you that it must be tough for Mark to remove misconceptions like this in another thread about Christians/Western nations day in and day out:
PS: I tried and gave up already(maybe write a hub later) hence admire people like Mark who at least try to educate folks like him.
You know what--have any of you religious Zealots think of what you are saying and actually see what Mark says--or do you just like to call names and judge peoplel That is a sorry *ss for an excuse to believe in a much higher power and then you go and tell others how they are going to come up in front of the judge when the time comes. Don't you all read your bible at all? What Ye Shall Sow, Ye Shall Reap--as it right now buddies!! Karma at it's finest and you all think it is New Age--well the whole Bible is New Age. Talking about calling the kettle black. Shame on all of you for damning Athiests to Hell when you do worse then what your God or Jesus would ever have believed in yourselves.
How many times are you to forgive? When did Jesus ever tell you to drag someone through the mud becaseu he did not believe in what you do or how you do. He didn't. I can also assure you that when you go to the other side Jesus or God or Whomever is there they NEE+VER ask you what you beleive, if you beleive in him or God or even what religion you are. It's all about LOVE---period, no rules, just love and total compassion for others no matter what or who they believe in.
Read you Bible a whole lot more than you do and get the facts from the beginning not just come into the middle and think -oh this is right--and not find out why it is or anything about it.
So prejudge all you want--it will be you that will get the reaping of what you sow and the karma to burn.
Hmmm...we are allowed are opinion and so is mark. I understand what he is saying and I am not damning him to hell...thats not my position or right. I am not your judged, that is in the hands of God. All sin is the same in God's eyes. Lying is the same as murder. Homosexuality is the same as Heterosexuality when it comes to sinning.
And a zealot can go both ways...whether that is religiously or nonreligiously...a zealot is anyone who believes to the extreme in something.
And I believe the love that christ showed us is the love we should have for everyone...only this one true love that God has shown is will reveal all truth...not love of the world...love of the world is superficial and fleeting and passing.
I am not judging anyone for I myself am truly the biggest sinner i know.
So what is love of the world? What is Worldy things? You don't think that Mark loves or knows what it is and only you do?
haha...you are reading too much into this Lady G...I think you are becoming too easily offended. I have said nothing against mark knowing how to love or not love. I am trying to talk about the love the Greeks call philo, agape, and eros.
eros: it is lusty love...and if you look at most marriages today they are based off eros
philo:brotherly love love that we have for family and friends
agape: this is the love christ showed us which is more than lust of the flesh and more than just brotherly love...it is serving love...giving all of you to help someone
And before you get upset about this...the greeks came up with these terms before christ and i am using christ as an example.
Mark if you feel offended at anything i have said please tell me. But there is nothing in my comments anyone should take offense at. They are simply my opinion lady G. as you simply have your opinion.
There you go telling me how I feel. I just asked simple questions and the program begins again.
Haha...nope definitely don't know how you are feeling...stating a fact...i think you are offended...i don't know if you are feeling offended...are you?
how does that make you feel?
Is this a good feeling or a bad feeling?
Do you want a good feeling?
How does it make you feel to want a good feeling or bad feeling?
How are you feeling now after you have answered these questions?
Man, I re=read you response. I wasn't even going there----so who is on the defensive?
About brotherly love--now tell me you would push your religion on your very own blood and flesh brother.........if he made a mistake (and I don't think there ever are mistakes) whould you tell him he was going to hell and that he was going to burn in the flames for the rest of his death and he was going to be judged=====well would you tell him those things?
Why all the fury. Anyway, since I'm the one who made the New Age comment I'm gonna respond. Here's the thing, I believe in being calm. No fretting. A lot of what you said makes sense, but I dont get this -- you think that religious people are judgmental, hypocritical, and all what not. Always quick to condemn and all. But you don't think someone attacking the very cores of someones belief, condemning them for believing that morality is only fulfilling when its done for a higher purpose, you don't think that's condemnation? I know you and Mark are best buddies, and you have to take his side and all, but everything you say religionists are doing, atheists are doing too. There's hardly any extremists here. Dedicated, yes. I just think if we talk so much about democracy and freedom of speech and all that crap then it should apply to all. Atheists shouldn't feel threatened by religious people proclaiming their beliefs openly. It shouldn't bother them at all. After all, there is no God, right. Why the fuss! Just let the fools go on being the fools and hypocrites that they are. Thats all.
Taht would be great if those who are religious stop the converting and trying to save the world. Let it be. Harm None. When religious people put themselves on a pedestal and think and proclaim that they are the ONLY Way and the ONLY ones who have all the answers that is arrogant and it will bring something back as in what is happening with each opposites in the world. If you constantly pound into people that they HAVE to do something without any knowledge of such--what do you think is going to happen?
Mark and I aren't best buddies and I don't HAVE to stick up for anyone. Our experiences with the Divine are much different then what is in a book and if you read your bible Jesus says not to go by any books. If he said that God is in the minds and hearts of everyone then why try to prove him a liar because that is exactly what religios does.
i find it extremely interesting that atheists are proselytizing. i'd have to agree with mr. fierycj on that one...why do they care? I know why Christians care and that's cause they believe they have the answer to the big problem. as overused as this cliche is...Christians compare the truth they know to a cure for cancer - they have a moral obligation to share it even if no one wants to hear it.
so mr. knowles - you shouldn't really be that offended. maybe you should wonder why you are. also, just so i can try to convince an atheist a little bit, the philosopher plantinga wrote about the ontological argument for the existence of God which basically said that the proof of God lies in the idea of God. In other words, how could we have an idea of God, how could we even say there was no God, if there is no God? check it out : http://www.iep.utm.edu/o/ont-arg.htm#SH2a. thanks for your hateful comment on the witnessing forum too. gosh!
and to Lady G: as hard as it is for me to resist picking apart your arguments - i'm trying to be a loving person, really i am - you should know that at the very beginning of the Bible - two books in (Exodus 20) - there's this whole big list of laws about how to follow God. the 10 commandments. then in the middle, Matthew 5, Jesus talks about how no letter of the Law (those 10 commandments) will ever be abolished. i'd be curious to know what Bible you're reading...it's not the one i have...
Love and Respect as we continually battle these things in our hearts and minds.
....and Jesus said that the laws are written in the hearts and minds of men--so everyone knows these laws without the book. Now you also need to go and get the differing versions of those Ten Commandments. You can pick apart anything that I say, no matter to me, but just saying so is thrusting your views down my throat. You seem to get the fact (which is not fact at all) that I don't believe in God or Jesus. NOt a fact! Just what else do you get wrong ---my feelings too.
There is a pattern and I didn't just come up on it yesterday! If you are somehow going by my picture and how young I look--you are also wrong about that too.
Offended - by what? I was just sharing the good news that we atheists are not going to knock on your door to spread the love.
I must admit, I do despise liars and people who say they have an answer when they do not.
I see you have nothing to say though. Which begs the question as to why on earth you would direct a comment at me - merely because I do not subscribe to your world view.
Hmm - Wonder why you need to spread your hatred and anger in this fashion. Why is that?
more hateful comments! certainly you're offended now right? my intention was not to provoke further argument. it certainly was not to "spread hatred and anger" haha...really? were my comments hateful and angry? i was merely remarking on the oddity of an atheist's hatred against religiosity. it would seem to me that in your worldview, you shouldn't care at all. in illustrious conclusion, trying to provoke me isn't going to work but here's something that will really get under your skin: i'll be praying for you mr. knowles.
Ah - so that is your intent - getting under my skin and upsetting me. Thanks for being honest - makes a nice change to know that is what you are after. Not offended at all - you have lived up to expectations.
i wasn't sure if i, a lowly 17, could stand up to the lofty mr. one hundred. kudos to mark knowles; you've swept the floor with me. but i did mean i would pray for you, and i will. this has been very enjoyable...i appreciate your perspectives and look forward to clashing with you when i'm more adept at hubbing. please don't take this as anything more than an admission that you caught me...i've betrayed my points in attempts to be pithy. and please don't take me to be an angry, hateful jerkface. i apologize for misunderstanding you; please don't misunderstand me.
So do you eat bacon? Shellfish? Rest your olive trees and fruit trees every 7 years? Stone people to death who wear mixed linen and wool?
Perhaps one of you three religionists can answer my question. I am genuinely interested.
Count me out, Mark. I'm no religionists. I love God, I love my neighbour, which includes you, Mark. If that's being a religionists, well, then include me.
Can you answer the question though? I know you are the kinda guy who will put a bullet in a guy's eye and then say the lord's prayer and all, but it is a really simple question.
and its head, not eye. Eye looks messy, and its so Cosa Nostra.
Effective though. Almost like a badly written character in an unsold novel. Got a few of those myself. Sill cannot answer the question?
No Mark, it doesn't frighten me. Here's how I figure it, if there's no God, then there would be nothing right. I mean, when we all die, then nothing. Just black non-existence. But if there is, then there's something to look forward to, eternity,joy, happiness. Sorry Mark, I choose the later prospect. After all, what have I got to lose. Nothing, lol.
So you believe because you have nothing to lose and the idea that there is nothing does not frighten you so you look forward to it instead because you are not frightened by the nothing? Did I get that right?
no, I look forward to the prospect of something than nothing. Cos with something, I have SOMETHING to look forward to. But with nothing, well NOTHING, so no losses. This equals to no fear.
Like I said. First comes the fear, then comes the "well there MUST be something," which allays the fear. Thanks for your honesty.
So you believe in God because you fear death; you want there to be more than this life because you know that life is finite.
I do not see that as a question, just the rantings of atheism. If it's a question then "Mark Knowles is a wise woman."
That is because you are too lazy to read the entire thread.
You're the one contesting the fact. I'm not religious; God is real in me. Your ignorance and unacceptance of the Spirit life do not make it unreal either. Why are you worried about existence of God? That atheist slogan(rantings) on the bus is like saying that Mark Knowles is a wise woman. How true is it?
You're the one contesting the fact. I'm not religious; God is real in me. Your ignorance and unacceptance of the Spirit life do not make it unreal either. Why are you worried about the existence of God? That atheist slogan(rantings) on the bus is like saying that Mark Knowles is a wise woman. How true is it?
Well - that did not answer the question Andrew.
It's meaningless since you've no value for the answer. Accept or argue it; There's God and God is a Spirit. Cannot be measured with sensory perceptions, science, and religion.
it doesn't frighten me actually
it makes more sense to me there is an infinite God rather than an infinite blind material
and don't tell me itsn't blind because it's
although , many people need hope
religions give them that
and I think the idea of evolution does frighten a lot
Hope of what--not being called a sinner once they get to heaven?
Hope tht they are being called a sinner and are the scum of the earth ever since they were born and will have to repent for it for the rest of their natural lives?
Hope that there is an end?
All the religionists are getting upset because of a few busses that have this on tem. Do you not see all the churches that have their signs out front with pleas to get parishioners? A few busses versus a few hundreds of thousands churches......hmmmm
Fierycj, dont even bother going near him he is big trouble...
not scared at all but the same things go round and round and no body gets any where at all, and what is the point, up to you if you have hours to spare, I just decided it was a big waste of time, and you know I am bossy.........
I think these billboards are backfiring on the atheists anyway. It just gets more people to think about God.
I just hope it teaches people to think past what they know now.
Sure, perfect, but the idea that there does exist objective morality that you would have to submit your enormous ego to would still be too much for the likes of you to bear.
Objective morality? You mean that your thoughts cannot create anything. Then what are you doing with this forum--are you not creating something? Hubs--do you write them or does someone or something else write them for you and you just say that it is yours?
Hope for something better---will NVER come if all you do is hope and think about it--you must do something about it. Think positively and that brings positive back. We create our own worlds and each of us creates it for ourselves and then it is broadcast to others and it affects others and so on and so forth......That is in that book you read. The world starts with you and no one else.
What is wrong with your world right now? Think of all that you have, right now and be grateful for it.
I don't know about you, but I love my world.
Glad to hear it. I'll bet you'd love it even more if you understood it better.
I understand it very well, thank you. So waht are your grateful for right now?
I am grateful that we can have discussion and meet people from all over the world right now. Isn't it beautiful and wonderous that we have created this for ourselves many years ago by just a thought. We have truly come a long way in reacuing out to others in ways we would have never imagined 100 years ago.
I am grateful that all the things on this earth and beyond my knowledge and sight for they are all good.
I am grateful that each of us has the ptential to do and be and have anything they want in their lives just by thinking so.
I am grateful thast I have this body to be able to do these things on this earth at this time.
I am grateful that I have brought all the things to me that seem good and bad in the effort to help others learn about themselves as well.
I am grateful for knowling that I am LOVED UNCONDITIONALLY--no strings attached and no rules and sin is never entered into the picture.
How about you??
Good for you. You're right and you're wrong of course (like all of us).
Most everyone understands some but no one understands all (or even very much). And anyone who thinks that everything begins and ends with them personally is pathologically self-centered and self-deluded.
With no disrespect intended, there is allot wrong with that conclusion. If one believes in a continuum of consciousness then the Alpha and Omega does start with your own Self. And there is nothing delusional about that statement. If one comes to understand that nothing perceived by yourself is external but an internal experience, how can you say it doesn't start or end with yourself?
This is the requirement of a lateral person, to understand that God is not an external being and is not and never has been separate to yourself. Everything starts and ends with you. We are not separate, you are not separate. Yet the teachings of that book will separate you as something lesser than and apart from. You are an emanation, we are an emanation, we are not separate. So everything DOES begin and end with themselves. You have to look past the biped who washes the dishes.
The most common mistake I see with 'savers' is that they forget this one rule "You can only ever save yourself." Self centered is paradoxically the way you need to go. This being self centered is a misunderstood term. To be in your center means to be whole in yourself. Selfish is different again. When all you see is yourself and all you do is for your own gains, this is selfish. But being self-centered is paramount to being "one with God." Go lateral on the meaning of the term. Go inside. To thine own self be true. That's not about opinion. It's a state of being and is void of dogma. Perception, standpoint, your own experience will only ever come from your centredness, your Self.
A personal separate God does not exist.
Given that humanism and science are so characteristically Christian in their assumptions and origins, it's hard to understand the savagery of the science v religion stuff.
The more important issue is- why are so many Christians so ignorant of their religion's traditions and heritage And why are so many humanists so ignorant of theirs?
I enjoyed reading poor Andrew and his quest to fight the good fight. The comments that arise from these are absolutely wonderful, and I only wish that I had started coming on these forum sites earlier. The trashing I take in comments led me to believe HubP. was a devoted group to the christian rank. Thanks for fully filling me up with my morning bitterness from the religious view point.
They certainly are thick on the ground. Andrew takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.
I will check out your hubs. I usually prefer to have my "discussions" here because I have found my comments deleted on a number of occasions when I disagree with a certain viewpoint.
These rantings of atheism are very serious on their nerves...little sentiments.
I don't really care what the bus ads say (as far as who created whom), I'm just excited to see that people are trying to voice a different point of view. I think in US we are surrounded by religious messages everyday, why should religion play such a big role in our society when we have so many people with a different point of view.
look around the hubs here--Bard Of Ely's, Muley84's, mine and some others I will have to look up for ya.
What is contradicting? Is it the selfish and self-centered bit?
......and Jesus said The Kingdom of God is Within you--not outside or beside you or even in another person, but in each and every one of us. He said that your body is the temple--not a building or church or another person.
Wrong. Jesus was talking to believers who already had a covenant. Kingdom of God is not in everybody. Only who are born of God - the Word. Jesus is Logos Word in the envelope of flesh. Sorry, I must disagree.
Oh my God! Bite your tongue Vladimir. This is the saddest thing I've heard. This has cemented my knowing of how badly you are being taught. This IS THE ARHIMANIC AGENDA in all it's damning glory. Step outside your closed mind and get some real knowledge before you really need saving. This is segregation in all it's stupidity. You dear man have it all within yourself. It is not outside of you, never has been, never will be. To get to the 'Kingdom of God' - go within yourself. It will NEVER be outside. Get spiritual, get with the real program and stop the nonsense. Wake up! Now I'm going to have to raise my hands above my head and seek an enormous power to make you see that you're missing some opportunities to see. Whoever told you you are not born of the good stuff, is going to get a good whipping sooner or later. Jesus, God, Buddah etc. etc. forgive them, for they know not what they are learning.
That is YOUR reading of those scriptures. Tell me what it says in the hebrew version you are so aptly said that you have read. What do the other major religious books say on that subject. Did Jesus not come to Thomas who was doubting and tell him that he knew him already. Thomas was not a Christian like we hae today. Aren't you just adding words to the Bible and seeing somethng that is does say...
Foolish it is. I'm hanging my humanitarian, spiritualist, athiest, peopleist head in shame with that foolish nonsense. I just can't go see LG, I can't - it's too painful. I can't be around that much sillyness.
We need to be more forgiving of these people. After all, they are in Kindergarden in the school of life.
Well thank you for rudeness and calling me names. What you say this is what you are. Bless you.
What name did I call you? You still, after four attempts, did not answer my question----why do you feel the need to minister to me?
You call me lazy. You do not believe in Bible at all then why I should quote to you the Bible?
I thought and believe in friendship. You have a potential, but you trash it all the time.
You were the one who told me that you would not go back and read the Bible again. That is lazy. Why should you quote the Bible when it is the only book that you rely on as the total truth?
I believe in friendship too but what I don't believe in is a start on the wrong foot when you said that I am an challenge to you or that I will be challenge. To me sir, that is no friendship--that is just an argument to let me know that you will be right in everything that is said. That is NO friendship!
Potential in what? I have the potential to do as MY Christ (Soul/HigherSelf) says and that of Nature and all that is around me. I have the potential to let those who only deal with each others as sparring partners and that they have the right to fight anyone who does not believe in what they believe in. I also have the potential in telling those same people that while you are fighting you are destroying our (as in yours, mine and ours and that of the beautiy of Nature and the things which we need to survive) earth that we live on. I have much potential to do as I was to do in this life that I chose and co-created with the source as to what lessons I will learn.
Hi everyone, just popped in to say hi, was surprised to see this thread still going, I dont really have anything negative, positive, or otherwise to say except have a good day, and may your god go with you....
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