What's your stand on Atheism?
i'm agnostic and skeptic. And just want to know people's opinion, comment, and expression about atheism.
Atheism is the lack of belief in any god.
Its about as simple as that really. Not sure why people seem to delve so deep into it. An atheist is no more or less likely to be worse of a person than a believer of god.
Weve been over this! It is now undeniably a political movement.
See wiki on organised political atheism. Follow the yellow brick links
Lol...think i will stop giving you the benefit of the doubt from now on. But i felt interested and googled anyway. Are you talking about the American Atheists by any chance?
There are hundreds of such groups around the world. Similar to a cult
Mmm. Nice to know you dont actually seem to know what you are talking about. Again.
Unless you can direct me to a source? Because your favorite Wikipedia one describes the furthest thing fron a cult in regards to the American Atheists
If you stop couching your comments in insults and personal attacks it would be appreciated.
Wiki contains links and those contain further links so its not hard to verify
And it would be appreciated if you could actually cite your sources for once. It would be even better if those sources werent from Wikipedia, but rather a credible site.
I can dream though
Only a blind man could miss the link Link. Link to the link Link.
And only a liar would insist something is there but not provide it. Repeatedly.
Suits you well
Everyone else can find the links in a few minutes....but only Link cant find any link!!
Odd how you consider yourself to be more than one person, since you are the only one who seems to be in possesion of these links you neglect to share
I think whatever a person chooses to believe, or not to believe, is none of my business, and I wish they would keep it to themselves.
Respect of freedom of speech? or diverse backgrounds&beliefs bringing many points of view to bear on problems. Beware you might get what you wish for, Marxism, communism or radical Islam, take your choice,all force you to "keep it to yourself,"
By abandoning the scientific evolution of ethics from religion to law modern atheism has put itself into a bizarre devolutionary phase which is failing badly. It has rapidly regressed into a confused unethical state.
Also it has completely left behind its older definition of simply a non belief in god to an organized political force.
The active denial of both these points adds to the general undercurrent of deep ethical hypocrisy.
Finally the more extreme modern atheist trends and even general atheist politics has directly fed extremists such as Islamic terrorists.
There are many many other clear ethical hypocrisy such as attempts to legalise infanticide and beastiality; the hyopcritical denial of the failure of the North Korean atheist state etc etc
See the hub " the real danger of atheism"
That's all a heinous misrepresentation of Atheism...clearly driven by an intense hatred for REALITY. Indoctrination causes intense anxiety in the minds of those who feel that their foundation is threatened...no matter how illogical the foundation.
There is some truth in what you say, but "confused" is not one of them.
There is a darker force at work, though, than even atheism. It seems that they intend to pit atheists against Christians to destroy both. But they'll lose. Based on selfishness.
I support scientific ethical atheism which bases its ethics on the principle
of evolution not anarchy
Ozt--Your post is one of the most heinous, distorted and convoluted pieces of writing I have had the misfortune of reading in three days. That one was from another of such ill minded thinking.
I have made only calm rational scientific comments based on provable fact.
Methinks thou dost protest too much ie a guilt nerve has been touched
Atheist are nonbelievers because there is no evidence to support a belief in a God or creator...None! There is no reason to believe anything on blind faith, and those who do are allowing others to think for them. The atheist is a skeptic, in that he wants objective verification of any claims made by other humans, even in the case of religion. If a claims stands on its own, without the aid of fallacies, then the skeptic will accept it, but then...and only then.
People in general are skeptic. They have just been indoctrinated into NOT applying that same skepticism to religion. Indoctrinating followers is a tactic employed by charlatans routinely.
Try studying Kurt Godels math proof of God.
But I suppose you will try to worm out of it
Which god does Godels proof prove Oz? I have no problem believing a god exists, but i do have a problem believing a certain god exists over all others.
So unless Godel proves the christian god, not sure what point you are trying to make.
But it appears that it was only an exercise in Modal Logic...not to be taken in the context that you have. Godel proved the possible existence through Modal Logic. Since you cant show us your God, this is merely a Red Herring.
You have to stop thinking your crappy definition of what you think god is, is mine. Judging by your poor standard is imbecilic.
Do tell us your definition. Are you really implying that somehow Godel's mathematical findings has established the basis for belief in holy books? These absurd authors clearly show the ignorance and trickery common to humans not OMNISCIENT BEINGS?
Read the scriptures as you would shakespeare and take hyberbole onomatapeia etc as literary devices. If you take a poem literally you miss the point. Discern historical record from artists licence
Its bizarre what people will say when they believe in fairy tales. Holy books are simply not true, no matter how you pretend to be reading them. Wow!
Look for the inner meaning. Even a Grimms fairy tale contains lessons and truths eg beware of strangers etc
Read with the unbiased eyes of science.
Is there a reason you are assuming that Get is reading with the biased eyes of science Oz?
Scientific study takes into consideration grammatical devices and symbolism. Ergo if someone doesnt do this they are being unscientific. No mystery!
(Shrugs) I guess I don't really have a 'stand' on it... If it works for you, hey, good on ya.
I am one. I just think atheists are comfortable enough to think that when we die, nothing probably happens to us. We just die. Life isn't fair. But at least we got to experience it.
Although I'm an atheist, I follow some Christian traditions for my children's sake. I'm officially an Episcopalian after years as a Catholic and Baptist and then, finally, as an atheist pretending to be Episcopal. It sounds crazy, but I think it's important for children to believe in something. So I play along. They believe in the tooth fairy, Greek myths, Santa Claus, etc. The stories of Noah and Adam and Eve are thought-provoking for children, because it gives them a basis of understanding of history and where we all came from. I do not sway them to my beliefs in any way and I want them to make up their own minds after being exposed to religion. I want them to talk about what they learn. As they get older, I expect they will toss aside their beliefs in myths, Santa, the tooth fairy and a deity. Hopefully they remain affiliated with a church so their children can learn something as well. But as long as I'm willing to pretend Santa exists, it would be wrong of me to deny to my children what many people still believe as adults. I think most adults still cling to religion, because they do not want to give up hope.
This is an honest question: I'm curious about why you want your children and future grandchildren to grow up with religious myths and then, as adults, find out they were false? Are you not concerned that it might cause them psychological problems?
Just because they are exposed to it doesnt mean they believe it to be true. In the best case scenario anyway. I think the point is to let them figure it out on their own and not really encourage either viewpoint.
You are following correct ethical atheism which links scientifically to the past evolution of ethics. Congratulations
I believe it is wise to allow your children to be exposed to a church environment. Even though you deny God's existence. I hope they become prosper productive adults. I believe they will.
I do not know of a God-man who believes in atheism. They discuss the word or idea as everyone else. But I feel that they smile inside. One tells you from inner experience that all is Spirit, then he/she knows that the innate nature of the Soul is to return to its true Source. This is done either consciously or unconsciously.
We get hung up on God or Allah or other names and that may be necessary for some. The atheist believes in love or peace or altruism or philanthropy. If not, then he believes in you or nature. All is really an aspect or aspects of the Divine and many atheists are quite solid and loving when it comes to decent principles. Who cares whether they use the word God or not.
I very rarely talk God to people. I try to show my inner Light through service or exemplary actions; I offer empathy and listen; give and receive. More often than not, this is sufficient. Let these good people who call themselves atheists, live and grow in their own way. I'm sure they love children. What is this, if not another aspect of God's grandeur? Much peace.
Daphnie, skepticism is good. Be sure to apply it to both sides of the debate.
Understand one thing about atheism. Most atheists actually know nothing about Christianity. They will not consult with people who have seriously studied the Bible before simply jumping to their own conclusions without the advantage of expert's insights and study aids.
They only understand the Bible well enough to know that they want to reject its redemptive message.
"The natural person does not welcome the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” What this scripture means is unbelievers do not *welcome* the things of the Spirit of God. Believers receive the Holy spirit who enables them to *welcome* the things of the Spirit of God.
This 4 minute link will explain to you the reason why most atheists reject Christianity, the moral reason. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl … jBZIv4CH8o
I shared this link with an atheist on his hubpage and what did he do? He deleted it with the excuse I didn't ask his permission to post a link.
Furthermore interpretation of the Bible comes through studying each book as grasping what each author was attempting to communicate. It is the same approach we would use in reading any other literature. Each book must be understood in its cultural, historic and linguistic context. The use of study aids will enhance the comprehension of cultural and historic background and enable the reader to correlate what is going on in each book to the overall redemptive message. Each book has been produced under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He will indeed guide our understanding of how each piece fits together so that God’s story resonates with us, but that is contingent upon us reading each book as it was meant to be read.
You are on the right track Daphnie asking about beliefs and searching for the best answer but you won't find a better place to learn wisdom than the Bible.
Proverbs 12:15 ESV The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice.
Proverbs 11:14 ESV Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety.
Proverbs 19:20-21 ESV Listen to advice and accept instruction, that you may gain wisdom in the future. Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.
Proverbs 15:22 ESV Without counsel plans fail, but with many advisers they succeed.
Mmm, taking things out of context.
Dishonesty suits you well
Oh, you mean this context? "Let it be clear that this is my hub Tsadjatko, i do not need or desire your biased garbage on my hub. You also ask my permission to post any links first" That makes you sound better? More like bigot - er.
only a man of stupidity can conclude without knowing the whole part of the puzzle, what I'm implying is a brilliant atheist and agnostics cannot conclude without knowing the principles of not only the Roman catholic religion but all oher religion pri
Ahh, there we go. Still missing a part but these character limits...
So what was that first reason you neglected to mention in your answer that the comment was deleted for again?
And here we go... Link butting in where his opinion does not belong. Because it is useless.
Its funny, because Tsad was talking about my hub in the 6th paragraph of this comment.
Its starting to become difficult to know which end of your body you are speaking out of JT, the top or the bottom.
I have to agree with you. There is no place here for insults and butting in rudely in inappropriate ways etc.
"...why most atheists reject christianity....." your opinion based upon a YouTube designed to put the good christian American angle.
Your bias does not deminish and it's just as immoveable.
You really have a fixation on that interview, appears it really hits home with you and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzd40i8TfA. There is a poll that confirms, it too.
Atheism could become a force for good but needs to turn its back to the dark side of the force.
It's considered rude and spammy to post links to anything in comment sections. Google sees the link as part of the page it is on.
Not all atheists believe there's a void after death. Some Buddhists are atheists. They believe life and the universe are eternal, and continue to reincarnate themselves. Jainism is atheistic in a way, in that it doesn't believe in a Supreme Being. Confucianism and Taoism are also atheist, having their own particular beliefs in the afterlife.
Whatever you're ready for is whatever you're ready for. What is true for you is your current truth.
Atheists, in my view, simply are not yet ready for the spiritual realm. I was born ready. My earliest dreams were ontological musings about faith, doubt and self-concern. I have seen dozens of miracles. I have studied science all my life. I thrive on logic, mathematics and computer science, yet I know there is something far more than these physical things. I have tasted true love and perfect forgiveness as Christ and Buddha had taught.
Skepticism is an imperfect paradigm for any investigator. Science uses it to its own detriment. Why is it a poor paradigm? It is poorly defined, first of all. Sometimes it is benign restraint and humility in search for answers. Sometimes it descends into subjective and unsupported dismissiveness. And skepticism even descends into self-indulgent ridicule. These last two are highly subjective and destructive. We see this in the treatment of scientists by their own peers in North American anthropology when those scientists dug below the Clovis horizon, ignoring the "Clovis First" dogma. We see this in the statements of one Texas geo-archeologist that he would never believe the ancient dates for the Valsequillo artifacts no matter what the evidence.
Skepticism is flawed because it contains doubt. Doubt is a negative bias. It works well in some cases to counterbalance the positive bias that green researchers tend to have about their first theories. Skepticism rightly neutralizes that positive bias, but any bias is a poor tool, especially when restraint and humility contain no bias and perform the same job admirably.
Atheism is based on an argument to ignorance type logical fallacy and is thus flawed, logically. Agnosticism is a superior position, logically, but works from blindness. Developing spiritual sight or awareness is the only way to resolve these things. Talking to the blind about something they've never seen is futile at best.
Thats a fair balanced scientific view. Well put!
greatly balanced scientific and spiritual view
lonestar, Sorry, but again, this is merely your unfounded and completely biased opinion about something that you are incapable of understanding. Because, as you stated, your mind is wired for superstition, instead of REAL critical thinking. miracles?
As one who has been described, as a devote and ardent Atheist, I have put together a couple of things that will assist in defining my stand on this philosophical perspective. Atheism is a simple one line statement of belief; It is unreasonable to believe that gods exist. Like all things human, all things are believed to be or not to be. No one has a claim of a universal truth, but certainly to a reasoned truth.
Atheism is---accepting life, as the ultimate of human existence.
Atheism is---understanding that the purpose for life, your life, is defined by you.
Atheism is---an awakening, a sense, a feeling of life. It is the reasoned knowledge of who you are, what you are, where you are, and the purpose of your existence. It is an absence of ignorance, an embracing of knowledge.
Atheism is---a cleansing of the mind, clarity of thought and of living.
Atheism is---to embrace the unique preciousness of intelligent life and the unparalleled and fantastic capacity to reason----that is you.
Atheism is---the freedom to think freely, to act freely without the stigma and guilt of contrived religious sin and government promoted social guilt.
Atheism is---a respect for and a love of self and in that, a love of life, a respect for life.
Atheism is---the ultimate empowerment of the individual----“I am”.
Atheism is---a philosophy of self, self realization, self worth and with that, the greatest contribution to the human community, a reasoning, self sustaining, and self quantifying human being.
Atheism is not---a denial of the existence of god(s), as a denial of an un-provable assertion serves no point. It is not to say, categorically, that gods do not exist. I do not know. I do know however, that there is no reasonable evidence to conclude that they do exist. I can not be the fool who speaks of absolutes without reasonable knowledge. Is he not the fool who does so whether he is theist, Atheist or political or religious demagogue?
Atheism is not---a disbelief of the existence of god(s) or other deities, as such, serves only to give credibility to an emotional assertion of an existence solely based upon fear, guilt, money and power.
Atheism is not---Fascism, Nazism, Communism, Marxism, nor any other form of Socialism; as such evils destroy the individual no less than any form of godly directed and induced theocratic rule.
Politically, Atheism is best identified within the freedoms expounded in the American Bill of Rights and the concept of Capitalism.
Thankyou for clarifying that atheism is now a fully formed philosophy and not just a "disbelief in God".
Nearly every hub atheist on hp has denied this.
Link for example. But here in this discussion no atheist has yet denied your portrayal of atheism
I dont recall denying this Oz. Just because i do not view it as a philosophy myself does not mean i have denied it.
So do me a favor and stop putting words in my mouth.
Well lets hear more of your objections to the very idea of atheism as a philosophy. If a theist makes the claim we nevet hear the end of it
What theist has made that claim? You know without asserting that a lack of god must mean a lack of morals and that the atheist secretly believes in god anyway
Also, why do i need to object to this, considering how i already elaborated in the forum?
I have been stating on hp for about 2 years that atheism is a philosophy and been met with personal attacks for it! Incredible.
Now was that before or after asserting that atheists were trying to legalize Infanticide and bestiality due to their lack of morals, and that atheism as a whole is responsible for the moral downfall of the US and terrorist attacks upon it?
"Atheism is not---a disbelief of the existence of god(s) or other deities" this ambiguity in your content nullifies your stand. Do you believe in God or not and if you don't why call yourself an atheist and not a humanist.
Reginald--I cannot disbelieve in something that cannot be proven to exist. Would it make sense, as an adult, to say that I disbelieve in Santa Clause? I prefer the designation of Sapien, a reasoning being.
Try reading Kurt Godels math proof of god
@Oztinato Seriously? One person has a philosophy and it applies to all atheists? So since Fred Phelps was a Christian I can safely assume all Christians are exactly like him? Atheism is not thinking God is real. Individuals have philosophies.
The Hub record shows I have never lumped all atheists together.
Where have you been the last 2 years??
Atheistic people are afraid to admit they do not understand. So it is easier to ignore the truth and look past it blindly than it is to dig deep and scratch beneath the surface to find the source. Like anything worthy in life you have to help yourselves. When all you have to do is ask. The Bible tells us that: "Ask and ye shall receive!"
Odd. Havent seen an atheist on this site that doesnt admit to not understanding the big "Why" questions.
I have seen plenty of believers of god on the other hand talk about knowing the truth but providing nothing to back that up. Even odder.
Well there are Roman History books that were written by historians that say a man named Jesus was causing an uproar because 100's were following him in Galilee. Out side the Bible. No religion involved. Just history in the making.
Try studying Kurt Godels math God theorem.
It isnt hard to believe Jesus, as a man, existed in the past. Its more difficult to believe that jesus, the son of god did due to it being an extraordinary claim.
And Oz, the theorem might prove god. Cool. But does it prove the christian one? Others?
More evolved religions see all as equal.
Politics is NOT religion. Religion is religion
Fear of admitting they don't understand or the courage to understand their own mortality? While I personally believe in reincarnation, I couldn't answer if I believe that because it's true to me or because I fear nothingness after life
My stand? I don't believe in a God or Gods of any description. Do I deny their existence? No, because I do not know if they exist or not - I simply do not believe in them.
If you think about it - all religions make their believers 'atheists" of other Gods - you must believe in the one (or several in the cases of some of the Eastern religions etc) God of your faith, and none of the other possibilties - therefore making you a "Christian" but an "atheist of Islam..etc".
For some Atheists, their atheism may also be a political stance, or philosophy. It may be their 'soapbox" for activism against religion, religious interference in law making etc etc etc etc. But please note - this is for SOME, not ALL. And that is their own path.
Many know a great deal about religion - often having been 'believers' at some point prior to becoming atheist.. Several I know have theology degrees - gained before their change to atheism.
Me? I always thought I was agnostic, as I did not know if there were God/s or not. But when I realised that Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity, rather than a denial of their possible existence - I realised I was an Atheist (or at least, an Agnostic Atheist). It is not a political nor philosophical issue for me - I simply do not believe in God or Gods of any description.
Throughout history every known culture has had some rendition of God or a god. It is inherent in humanity to believe in a higher power. I believe that atheist are trying to convince themselves because Atheism is a religion itself as its very name suggests (no god). To be an Atheist one must assassinate that part of themselves that longs for God. This denial is unnatural and hedonistic and creates a vacuum for tyrants to emerge and genocide to occur, because the accountability factor is wiped out.
This answer is just as bizarre as Steve Harvey's gross misunderstanding of atheism. Like Harvey, you seem to have been indoctrinated to believe that morals come from silly holy books. They don't. And why is it unnatural to be intellectually honest?
Reginald--Gods are unnatural and violate Man's capacity to reason. You might do well to read up on the history of Christianity and the savagery it brought to humanity, but than, it is said that ignorance is bliss.
Wow, it's morally immature to suggest we only don't commit genocide because God is watching. Is it the only reason you don't murder? If so, your religion has prevented you from maturing ethically.
So newborns and young children are unnatural and hedonistic, considering how they have no concept of god.
I hope you arent a teacher
You could be right. Look at north korean atheism and it looks religious or at least like a Cult. Its an atheist cult
Actually, atheism is 'a' plus 'theism' and means without belief in God. What part of yourself did you assassinate so you don't believe in Ganesh or Zeus? It's unnecessary to kill anything to not believe in the supernatural stories of other cultures.
I see the beauty and importance in all religion
I am sure the Flying Spaghetti Monster is pleased to hear you say that Oz.
My stand is nothing. Most of the Atheist I know are peaceful and rightful person.
It is the Christian that I am wary off
Each person has to find his/her own religious, spiritual, or ethical center. He/she is in the path he/she is supposed to be on. Atheists, agnostics, &/or skeptics are simply finding their spiritual/ethical path. Spiritual/ethical paths does not necessarily have to involve a God or Supreme Being. Atheists & agnostics are spiritual people & expressing their spirituality in different ways. Skeptics are always questioning the concept of God/Universal Being/Supreme Being which is healthy & quite conducive to spiritual growth.
Atheists & agnostics are thinking/questioning people who refuse to accept established religious/spiritual paradigm regarding belief/God. They want to explore what feels good for them. They are spiritual/ethical individualists so to speak. They want to be their own determiners as far as such principles go. They will not accept a principle because of some authoritative source, which I wholeheartedly applaud.
I have no issue with atheism. To believe in science and reason, to search for answers, rather than blindly believing faith and accepting it as truth is a great quality to me. It has done us great justice.
My stance? To each their own. If they believe there is absolutely nothing, then good on them. If you're agnostic, then good on you! Christian? Muslim? Satanic? Pagan? Great! The beauty of a rainbow is all its colors, and it takes all the colors to be beautiful. As long as no one's forcing their stuff on any one else, or harming anyone else.
What's the basis of your skepticism?
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