Hegel, Marx and Gramsci's mentor, was the founder of what we refer to as Marxist Communism. He had the same cyclical idea of Communism that Marx made famous, but at the end of the cycle, instead of the ideal end state ("perfection") that Marx called Communism, Hegel called Faith and Spirituality (Hegel's text almost make it seem like Buddhist enlightenment).
Somewhere in there, Marx must have been hit with a reason why he viewed Gramsci's ideas flawed.
To be honest? In some ways, I agree with him. Especially the way the 'modern' church is run. It is like a McDonalds, almost. You go into a building that resembles a concert hall instead of a solemn, sacred place, you go to the ATM to get money so you can 'pay', and then you go into the 'concert' where there are smoke machines, theatrical quality lights, and a band playing. "Offering" is taken, and then a guy stands up and talks about the new building the church is building because the current one is 'too small', mentions some verses from Malachai, and calls it a sermon. You are in and out within 55 minutes, so you can go out to eat, go home, and watch football on television.
It is sad.
I don't like the direction I see the Church going. I'm glad my church isn't going in that direction. I am a Christian, but it makes me sad how people (myself included) mess this God stuff up.
(If anyone, Christian or not, want to ask any questions about my thoughts, feel free to email me - I'd prefer not to clog up the boards). (If anyone would like to know about Hegel, Gramsci, or Marx, the same applies - although maybe I should write a Hub).
Also, I disagree these days.
"Religion is the opiate of the masses"
What Marx referred to as 'the masses' was the Proletariat, the working class.
Religion (not faith) has now become the Opiate of the Bourgeoisie as well as the Proletariat these days.
I think i might learn more from you on this subject.
Jeez people are so serious on this post -- and as for you James Agbogun asking such a loaded question when there are so many loaded people about, you should be ashamed of yourself. LOL
Religon was used and in some cases still is used to control the people. If religon is fed to you in baby language then what you produce is babies. In order for the ruling parties to stay in power they believed they had to keep the knowledge to themselves.
That it is high time we moved beyond the Marxist dialectic that has influenced our thinking for far to long... That with both religion and politics, among other things. Obviously, highly influential, but rapidly becoming outdated. Thank God!
I never thought it made a lot of sense, and have never seen the connection.
What he meant is that religion removes the desire to think for oneself, much as drugs do. Historically, monarchs controlled the masses by feeding them religion, in which unquestioning obedience to God and His representatives on earth played a large part (think the Pharoahs in Egypt).
Of course, Marxism replaced unquestioning obedience to someone claiming the divine right of royalty with unquestioning obedience to the state, which history has shown is no better.
The statement also reflects a distorted view of religion. No real religion requires checking brains at the door.
I have to say I think he chose the wrong drug then! Opium can be very thought inducing, and can be an adjunct to deep philosophical thought.
I thought it was "opiate" ?
Whatever, I think he meant that people use it to feel better or escape as they take drugs for the same reason.
Yes I believe you are right, that is what I recall too now that I have seen your comment. Well spotted.
It was also translated as, "Religion is the opiate of the masses." Opium is the original German quotation.
Opium, opiate, what does it matter ?
What Marx meant was that the ruling classes used religion to keep the exploited masses under subjugation.
In my country, back in the late or mid 1800's, a religious woman "confessed" to a parish priest that she was involved in a revolutionary society aimed at overthrowing Spanish rule.
The friar went to the Spanish authorities, brought the woman along, the heck with so-called confessional secrets if the secrets were from an "Indio", and in a few weeks most suspected revolutionaries were "caught" and duly executed.
Yeah, religion is an opiate.
Pure opium. Don't worry, don't rock the boat, don't question. all will be well when you go to heaven.
Religion is a system, beholden most of the times to secular powers that be.
Christianity is a relationship beholden only to the one that the spirit calls Father.
And the Bible says : "we ought to obey God, rather than men".
So, there's a parting of ways in submission, in as far as Christianity is concerned, and that is when government imposes anything contrary to Scripture.
Nothing in Scripture that says what you implied, which is blind subservience.
Sure - and you are going to live forever if you do as you are told.
There is no god dude. You already been suckered. Too bad. You could try thinking for yourself instead of following this non-religion.
No, dude. I am not going to live forever because I do as I told. Fact is, more often than not, I disobey what the Bible says I should do.
I have eternal life because Jesus loved me before I loved Him, knew me before I knew Him, and had mercy for me, when all I had was hatred for Him (like you, dude), and He took whatever penalty was meant for me to Himself so that I may have His immortality, at no cost to me.
That's why I am going to live forever.
There IS a GOD, dude, and a devil, too, and Satan's got you suckered right now. Too bad.
No - They are both in me and do not exist outside of me. If you had understood your book - you would know this.
And when you die you will be no more. The same as the rest of us - including the anti-christs preaching the same stuff you are now preaching. Too bad.
IMO The higher power called "God" gotta exist both inside and outside...... "outside".... the wonderful sunrise... the rainbow.... "inside"... "mother's" love ...... a kind caring heart of a human...... that wonderful feeling.... outside/inside.... gotta be "God"= love.
I thought you were an atheist, not a new ager, or has Oprah gotten to you as well ?
Now, THAT, is multiple too bad, dude.
Watch out for that girl.
Ummm, Wanna bet ?
How about you bet that sunglass you're wearing (if that's you) and you can throw it to me from the "great divide" that separates me from you. ;
Now, THEM, I wish had never even existed. ;
I am an atheist - your god does not exist and I do not believe in a god. I do understand your book - better than you apparently if you think some one else did all the work for you and you do not need to do anything - no matter how bad you are - as long as you believe.
As for the preachers - what do you think you are doing?
I will bet for sure. Everything you own against everything I own that Sandra is right. Die and come back and I will change my tune.
@Mark Thanks.... New topic "death".... your inspiration.
NO you WON'T!
That's already been done and you still don't believe.
Dodn't you accuse people of lying if they say stuff like you just said? You have NO intention in changing your tune.
Well if I saw you die and come back I would be singing glory, glory hallelujah till the day I died and came back.
No - YOU die and come back and I will. I promise. Not the BS you are spreading that never happened. LOL
It already happened, but just because I did not see it and it happened 2000 years ago and there has been nothing but wars over it for 1500 years I should accept it because you say so.
Seriously. YOU die and come back.
Then we can talk.
All the while men are running a muck with the "you must obey" bs that is so friggin' irritating people start lose words to express how we really actually feel because some of you are too friggin' stupid. Yes, that is the only term I can come up with which best describes how abominable and ignorant the whole thing is.
Obey what cannot be seen, I have been given authority to preach to you by Jesus Christ etc... you are not a prophet. Who is it that can tell me who is or is not a prophet.
Jesus spoke to people, Jesus didn't speak to people. Jesus died, Jesus didn't die. jesus is god, Jesus isn't god... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Please for the love of sanity get it together. All you piddly religions are so irritatingly deceptive and outrageously evil in nearly every regard that the very word Christian just starts to piss me off because I have never seen a friggin' Christian.
All I see are ignorant people wishing for a better world by killing, demanding, stealing, lying and all the other things you god damn book told you not to do.
Go die and come back already.
So much anger, must have been really hurt by someone in authority.
Maybe in childhood and again as an adult.
I have found that bitterness harms me in many ways and the people I am bitter against do not feel it, but I sure do. Seems like they might even be glad that I am bitter. It causes these strange chemical reactions inside me, makes my heart race, stomach knot up and my head hurt, sleeping is hard as well.
I turn away from bitterness and resentment because it kills me and others if I spew it out.
I think it is said some place that a kind word turns away anger and heaps hot coals on the enemies head.
Love does not cause me to feel bitter, so I move towards love.
The original German quotation is,"Die Religion...ist das opium des volkes" The problem could only come from the translation.
You say potato I say potatoe.
You need a regular fix, it can cost a lot of money to become involved, you need to have active recruiters, large amounts of money are involved and it can send you into a feeling of euphoria.
I'm talking about religion by the way - do you get it.
Does it fry your brains (Religion) or do you just imagine it will...lol
Yes,does it matter
Without proper scrutiny, Extremists are swift to shout Atheist. Bench warmers are irritated by a simple quotation.
I think the perfect response to this quote by Marx is the following quote from Jesus, who was answering the question "How do we evaluate the teachers that come after you?"
"By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?"
And applying Jesus' test to Marx, what has been the fruit of Marxism and communism? Cuba is stuck in in the 50's. North Koreans are forced to worship their dictator. China survives by becoming capitalistic. The lone positive example of a socialist state in the world is Berkeley California ;-)
History shows that Marxism's primary legacy is that it was dictators' favorite form of government.
Not sure I see why, Undercover Lawyer. The question wasn't about whether Marx's theories worked, it was about one specific quotation. That quote is about religion, not politics.
I liked it, .
But don't entirely agree with the conclusions. The Marxist dialectic set up false dichotomies...between, in the political realm, that of capitalism and socialism/communism. This duality has been the resounding echo through our thinking for over a century, and what has the result been? Some of the actual ideas have merit; what has actually been created out of it--and against it--and the resulting destruction, leave a little bit to be desired, to say the least.
Atheism was the 'logical' belief of the created communistic societies...just to connect the dots.
Again, I think you are reading too much into this single quotation. The whole Marxist dialectic didn't spring from this one statement! I think it's possible to agree with the statement and yet disagree with the rest.
Right... It is REPRESENTATIVE of the dialectic. And of course it is possible to agree with the statement and not with the rest, but the statement beyond a cursory understanding also presents a distorted view of the real spirit of most world religions.
And anyway, I had mentioned politics, and I was just talking about how there is a lack of well-spoken people who admit to belief here on hubpages, and here appears to be one...as well as Valerie above...
First true Marxist communism has never been practiced by a national government.
So 50's healtcare is better than this century's? Interesting observation.
So little information comes out of there to Western eyes and ears I'm not sure how you can make that assertion. Been there have you?
I know what you are thinking of. But you fail to state that that entire "show" was put on for Western visitors...which certainly skewed what the westerners saw.
China would survive regardless. It has existed far longer than any western power...by millennium.
You don't even know that much about Berkeley...how'd you pass the bar?
As stated above, true Marxist communism has never been practiced by any state.
If all would read the teachings of Messiah and NOT follow a religion of their choosing, but simply read what he taught and then do it.
The world would have little to say.
I am NOT talking about being like the fools who run around in his name and do not do as he taught.
Gee, if people only followed just the sermon on the mount it would change a massive amount of lives for the better.
The sermon needs NO explanation either.
Here is one I like. "If you do NOT work then you do NOT eat!!!"
which fits naturaly alongside: "Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these".
And your point?
Do you understand why Meshiach said this?
It's not often you quote him.
The point lies in the juxtaposition of apparent contradictions.
Yes. do you?
So you read the whole thing "in context" and this is what you come up with?
"contradiction"...?.......it's not even in the ball park with the term.
Nor is it remotely "apparent"
Read it, he does NOT tell them NOT to work as you assume...he tells them in a dozen different ways NOT to WORRY. He in fact did tell them to work and eat, just not be concerned about food etc....read it man read it.
22 Then, turning to his disciples, Jesus said, “That is why I tell you not to worry about everyday life—whether you have enough food to eat or enough clothes to wear. 23 For life is more than food, and your body more than clothing. 24 Look at the ravens. They don’t plant or harvest or store food in barns, for God feeds them. And you are far more valuable to him than any birds! 25 Can all your worries add a single moment to your life? 26 And if worry can’t accomplish a little thing like that, what’s the use of worrying over bigger things?
27 “Look at the lilies and how they grow. They don’t work or make their clothing, yet Solomon in all his glory was not dressed as beautifully as they are. 28 And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and thrown into the fire tomorrow, he will certainly care for you. Why do you have so little faith?
29 “And don’t be concerned about what to eat and what to drink. Don’t worry about such things. 30 These things dominate the thoughts of unbelievers all over the world, but your Father already knows your needs. 31 Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and he will give you everything you need.
32 “So don’t be afraid, little flock. For it gives your Father great happiness to give you the Kingdom.
33 “Sell your possessions and give to those in need. This will store up treasure for you in heaven! And the purses of heaven never get old or develop holes. Your treasure will be safe; no thief can steal it and no moth can destroy it. 34 Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be.
So what is the contradiction here?
As you say....evidence?
You are an engineer, spell it out.
For a start it is simply untrue. People the world over are starving to death. Are you telling me that if they just stopped worrying about their malnutrition they'd be just fine? Wait a minute - they have to work to eat? But work doesn't guarantee a harvest in a drought. And God doesn't even help with rain, never mind with food.
Plenty of food gets sent to many places where starving people await and do you know what evil men in control of the food once it is delivered do with the food?...come on man you know....
yeah right, they run it right over to the starving don't they?
And you blame God?.....sheeeesh
There are reasons WHY no rain comes.
When something is with held from you, do you ask yourself why?
Like when you were young and under your parents roof and something was with held from you?
Now we have got the the "God knows what is good for you - and no matter how many of you die, it is for your own good. I have my reasons. If you just stop thinking and asking questions, everything will work out just great. Don't worry - everything will be fine when you are dead and in heaven. Just like it was when your parents sent a great flood to kill you or starved you to death for not doing what they told you.
Chill out dude - here - have some opiate........."
Don't worry be happy. For an omnipotent being, you have surprisingly poor command of the English language and seem to be having trouble making your meanings clear. In fact, I would go so far as to say you are being deliberately obtuse.
Why on earth would anyone wish to worship a deity who cannot even speak in plain English?
Mankind will never understand God anymore than a teenage understands his or her parents....they say the same things you just did.
They often go and do stupid things and blame others.....if they kill themselves they blame others too. Even adults do this.
Mark...nobody can tell you what is good for you, you would not listen to them anyhow, so just move along and do what you do and do NOT concern yourself with what God does.
"We have worked wearily with our own hands to earn our living.
We bless those who curse us. We are patient with those who abuse us."
"He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need."
"Then, turning to his disciples, Jesus said, “That is why I tell you not to worry about everyday life—whether you have enough food to eat or enough clothes to wear. For life is more than food, and your body more than clothing."
So we have both work and also do not worry about what you have.
contradiction statement to be withdrawn Paraglider???
Could it be you do not understand the Bible?
You read things into it?
I don't blame God, since I don't thing God exists. I merely observe that there is no evidence of God helping the most needy.
OK then leave him out of the picture and talk about the men who hoard the damn food while people die?
What of that Paraglider?
Yes. They are a bad lot. But your point was that if you work and don't worry, everything will be taken care of. And my point remains that that is simply untrue.
If you look at the verses again you will see that is says this....
"29 “And don’t be concerned about what to eat and what to drink. Don’t worry about such things. 30 These things dominate the thoughts of unbelievers all over the world, but your Father already knows your needs. 31 Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and he will give you everything you need. 32 “So don’t be afraid, little flock. For it gives your Father great happiness to give you the Kingdom. Why do you have so little faith?"
The key word in it is "Your Father"
And I figured you would see that obvious point?
If I was their Father, they would tell you so. Nobody who's Father I AM starves to death, NOBODY !!!
Anymore than your own father on earth allowed you to starve Paraglider.
So, you're now telling me that when people who have always considered themselves christian starve in a famine or drown in a flood, it's really OK because they weren't the right kind of christian after all? Though they thought they were saved, they were 'deceived', is that it? Nice trick to pull! And what about the children?
Honestly I have supported many children, some not even my own, I gave them food, shelter, clothing and an education.
When my son, for instance, does NOT follow instructions many times over I send him to bed without dinner. If he still refuses in the morning, he gets no breakfast either. Eventually he comes around and says he understands where he was going off the deep end in not simply taking out the trash and cutting the lawn but, wanted to go to the movies and use my car.
I do know this much, no people who follow seriously the instructions of God are found starved to death. They have their needs met. Something we do not see or know must have been going on.
All kinds of things happen to the just and the unjust like it says. But NOT starving to death when you follow The Lord. I did not say "considered themselves Christian."
To believe in God is NOTHING, even devils do this and fear Him.
I am talking about OBEYING Him....a gigantic difference.
If parents refuse to follow the instructions of God, they and their children will suffer lack no doubt.
Again, do you have children? If they willfully refuse to follow your simple instructions, do you turn around a GIVE them what they want? Don't you love them enough to warn them and say something like "if you do as I tell you then things will go well for you, if NOT, well that's not a good choice"...???
By the way, food, shelter and clothing are provided for millions of unbelievers and they if they go beyond a certain point, things do not go well for them. Just like your children.
You have a son old enough to drive and you still "send him to bed without dinner"?
Well at least you did not say it was wrong to do
And yes, if that is what it takes, teenagers do get very hungry.
It is a "last resort" after the others do not get the change of mind done.
But really is that all you got out of it sir?
Your points are so unsubtle that for the most part they are not worth responding to. Your ongoing insistence that I don't understand is just tedious. I understand your childish 'parables' perfectly. After all, it's not as if you're offering anything new or interesting.
And what about those indiginous peoples living in remote corners of the world who have yet to hear 'the word'. Do they go straight to hell because they weren't around when the good news was handed out?
Also.... Is 70/80 years sufficient..... for learning all lessons..... and getting everlasting place in "heaven".... or condemned to eternal "hell".
He is what an old sage named Paul said:
"I can anticipate the response that is coming: "I know that all God's commands are spiritual, but I'm not. Isn't this also your experience?" Yes. I'm full of myself—after all, I've spent a long time in sin's prison. What I don't understand about myself is that I decide one way, but then I act another, doing things I absolutely despise. So if I can't be trusted to figure out what is best for myself and then do it, it becomes obvious that God's command is necessary."
Mankind use to live to be several hundred years old and the longer he lived the more evil he racked up. So actually God is showing mercy by allowing mankind to live only to be 70 or 80...sometimes still over a hundred. I have seen documentation.
Guinness Book of World Records. The longest unambiguously documented lifespan is that of Jeanne Calment of France (1875–1997), who died at age 122 years and 164 days. She met Vincent Van Gogh at age 14. This led to her being noticed by the media in 1985, at age 110. Subsequent investigation found that her life was documented in the records of her native city of Arles beyond reasonable question.
You missed my point.... try this... change 70/80 years to 80-120 years.
You missed my point, the longer he lives the more evil he does.
Mankind use to live to be several hundred years old and the longer he lived the more evil he racked up. So actually God is showing mercy by allowing mankind to live only to be 70 or 80
And God said that man would die for his evil, so the time allotment just kept getting shorter and shorter and shorter and.....
Man use to live to be 900+ and he did not learn the lessons...so it does not matter how long he is given, he is incorrigible.
Rather than come up with a lengthy answer to this very important and very often asked question, I will defer to someone who said it best.
If you will pay close attention to the bold words please. God IS justice.
Rom 2:1 You may be saying, "What terrible people you have been talking about!" But you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you do these very same things. Rom 2:2 And we know that God, in his justice, will punish anyone who does such things. Rom 2:3 Do you think that God will judge and condemn others for doing them and not judge you when you do them, too? Rom 2:4 Don't you realize how kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Or don't you care? Can't you see how kind he has been in giving you time to turn from your sin? Rom 2:5/6 But no, you won't listen. So you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself because of your stubbornness in refusing to turn from your sin. For there is going to come a day of judgment when God, the just judge of all the world, will judge all people according to what they have done. Rom 2:7 He will give eternal life to those who persist in doing what is good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. Rom 2:8 But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and practice evil deeds. Rom 2:9 There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on sinning-for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. Rom 2:10 But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good-for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. Rom 2:11 For God does not show favoritism. Rom 2:12 God will punish the Gentiles when they sin, even though they never had God's written law. And he will punish the Jews when they sin, for they do have the law. Rom 2:13 For it is not merely knowing the law that brings God's approval. Those who obey the law will be declared right in God's sight. Rom 2:14 Even when Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, instinctively follow what the law says, they show that in their hearts they know right from wrong. Rom 2:15 They demonstrate that God's law is written within them, for their own consciences either accuse them or tell them they are doing what is right. Rom 2:16 The day will surely come when God, by Jesus Christ, will judge everyone's secret life. This is my message.
Hope that answers your sincere question.
I don't think so.
I'm a christian and I do feel a natural high when I'm listening to a good christian song, or when I'm worshiping and singing for the lord, it recharges my battery so I can live an honest and productive life by creating value for others.
You also can experience natural high by playing your favorite sport, talking to good friends around a good table, listening to a piece of music that you like.
A Religion can influence your belief system and the way you talk and act so be careful, you are responsible for what you put or let others put in your mind.
I don't think so.Let me rephrase it this way:
"Religion is the opium of the weak people."
that is actually not a nice thing to say at all...... some people have to be very strong to stick to their religious beliefs in fact some people even get killed for it...... sorry if i mis read what you meant, religious people are certainly not weak
There is an interesting article (linked) that suggests a more or less direct correlation between levels of welfare available in a country and levels of religiosity as measured by church attendance.
Put simply, the contention is that religion is a way of dealing with the worries of day to day existence. When people feel secure that they won't go hungry or lose their home etc in a time of hardship (joblessness, sickness etc) many lose interest in religion.
So the Philippines has no social safety net and incredibly high levels of Church attendance. Sweden has low unemployment and generous welfare payments for the needy leading to very low levels of church attendance.
Its interesting that religiosity fell in both the US and UK during the boom times leading up to the present recession.
Things might be changing. There are no atheists in foxholes.
http://faculty.washington.edu/tgill/Gil … ligion.pdf
I agree with you - when people are scared, they invariably turn to the escapism religion offers. I am pretty sure the increase in evangelists is largely down to smelling an opportunity to screw a few bucks out of the ignorant.
As for the atheists in foxholes, I have been in a few myself and never needed to pretend everything would turn out OK if I groveled to the correct super being........
So - how about you stick to speaking for yourself instead of telling us how we should think huh?
It is amazing how often you miss the point, Mark.
If I missed the point, I apologize. I have lost count how many times I have been told there are no atheists in foxholes to suggest that when the crunch time comes I will start believing. Because I really do believe, but I am in denial.
In that case - What was the point?
Whatever GOD does, He does it out of love, that is all He is is LOVE.
When a parent has to discipline a child it does NOT “feel” like love (all warm and fussy) but it is OUT of love they must teach the child. Any parent that does NOT teach a child in fact hates the child.
No correction at the moment seems to feel good, but that is NOT it's purpose, it is to teach us how to do righteously. After we learn this, the correction brings forth much good fruit.
This is something all people understand, but often want to willingly rebel against!!!
You have restored my faith in humanity I will now follow your hubs not least because your climate is one hell of a lot warmer than where I am.
Heller your a genuine ratbag! Believe it or not that is complimentary if said with the right inflection
Thanks! It's bloody cold here today, and it's me birthday!
bread and butter in a gutter happy birthday to you.(all UK people should know what this means = not so sure about down under where you are)
I did indeed, and I thank you for taking the trouble to do so. You've confirmed what I always suspected, that if we will be judged at the end of days, then we will be judged by our deeds, and what is in our hearts, and NOT by the church we attend or whether we read the bible etc.
If you were to read the words of Messiah, the Proverbs and the Psalms, you would find that you gain insights to God and it will help you draw closer to Him and he will draw closer to you.
We will be judged based on what we knew to be true and did or did not do with said truth.
For someone who has never heard the gospel, they will be judged for what they did with respect to conscience. The person who has heard the gospel and rejects Messiah will be judged accordingly too.
You make an assumptive statement, from a book. There is no evidence for god.
Is there evidence that any man has or ever could live to be 900?
I think not, you would rot from the inside out and your skin would fall off by the time you reached 150.
I'm not lookin that good with yet another bloody year to drag round neither! I dislike aging, so unkind.
I suspect that Biblical years may have been much shorter. They didn't have calenders in the form that we know them today.
No - but they could tell when it was summer.
Ok, so not the actual amount of time that the Earth takes to revolve around the sun. I meant the amount of time that they regarded as a quantifiable year. If you call every 100 day period a year, then you should have no difficulty living to be 250 or so.
It could also be possible that because they ripped the story off of the Egyptians, that they calculated they took into account the number of years lapse between the Egyptian "era" if you will and the chriatian era.
From off the top of my head, the OT was written somewhat of about 3500bc (something like this) which is about a 1500 year period between the oldest accounts of the Egyptians and the OT.
If that makes any sense.
Sure - a year means 100 days.
Excuses excuses. What else can you come up with. And I am keen to know when they started measuring years by counting summers.
When was that exactly? What does it say in the bible? Or - a day could be a year. We will never know.
Pretty sure they counted seasons in "biblical times."
So Noah lived with the dinos? Assuming a year was actually only 27 days. And the earth was created when exactly? Going with your 27 day year.
You guys are so funny....... Do it again. Give me another scientific theory.
I suspect that your biblical years were the same as our current years. And I think the history books will back me up.
C'mon Mark, this isn't about science, this is about the meaning of words, and quite possibly, errors in translation. After all, the book was an oral tradition for milennia, then written down on scrolls, copied many, many times, translated into Hebrew, into Greek, into Latin. I'm just making a suggestion here, that when the Bible says Methusalah, and Noah and the rest all lived many centuries, just maybe the word 'year' has somewhere been substituted for a word that actually means a much shorter period of time.
That is because you are trying very hard to make a fairy tale fit the facts. And, of course ignoring the "fact" that this would make the earth even less than 6,000 years old.
I mean - how long does that mean it took Noah to build a 450x75x45 foot boat. By hand. Or does "by hand" mean "using 200 Mexican laborers with nail guns and super glue"?
Why not accept what it says at face value instead of trying to twist it to suit.
Every culture we are aware of has always measured "years" by the changing of the seasons. Why would this one use another way?
Mark, I'm not one of the Bible scholars, nor would I ever pretend to be. The Bible is a book made up of great stories, some of which have some vestige of historical fact, but most of which have been embellished and distorted by thousands of years of telling and re-telling. My belief is that the claimed longevity of some of these biblical characters is due to errors in translation, but if you choose to believe otherwise, then that's great!
I don't believe a word of the bible and I certainly don't take any of it literally.
Before Marx there was religion, and also after us, there will be no Opium involved.
i always wondered about the one day being a thousand years and a thousand years being one day with God. i think it is an idiom. it might not be.
so if man died anytime before a thousand years was up, he died in the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. just like he was told he would.
that makes scene to me anyways.
I did not have a chance to read all comments, but...
This is only one right thing what Marx said.
Religion is opium of humanity. It was first lecture I heard on my first class of Marxism-Leninism and Dialectic Materialism in univrsity.
I would like to explain. He know what he is talking about.
There is religion and biblical believing. They are opposite. Religion is man opinion as politic is. Politic is also opium.
Biblical believe is only truth, unchangible.
By the way Marx was Satanist. He believed in God. He said: I believe in almighty God. But I made covenant with Satan and I cannot get out.
No he did not. He said "there is no god and anyone who believe there is is a communist and should be killing what for dint, Init.
That is what he said. I swear. I was there......... Stood right next to you my son. Why do you lie so?.........
Like it say in the real bible - that was written by god. FSM.
This is a joke ,right? If Marx could see what you wrote ,He would b laughing like mad !
i do not think any of the ancients figured a year was anything less than 360 days. they had a tremendous grasp of times and seasons and years and understood many things beyond their times (so to speak)
they were more in touch with the universe and actually had to study it in order to gain wisdom. they had no inter net obviously.
the things that they built still baffles man today. 70 ton stones at stone henge and no rock anywhere around it? (i think) and how did they stack them like that? fascinating the knowledge they received. easter island, same thing.
temples built with so much precision that fitting a hair between the stones is near impossible. amazing and all done by hand, not machines.
the ability they had to learn and memorize was unreal, not having many books, things were past down and memorized, the whole family and village and town knew, if you recited a story and got something wrong, 50 people probably corrected you.
i can still recount exactly what my grandfather told me when he sat me down and told me things that he said "never forget." that's not hard to do if one is trained and things are repeated.
children are better at it than us i think.
Marx’s poem On Hegel:
Words I teach all mixed up into a devilish muddle.
Thus, anyone may think just what he chooses to think.’
In his poem The Pale Maiden, he writes:
Thus heaven I’ve forfeited, I know it full well.
My soul, once true to God, is chosen for hell.
I always did wonder why we did not listen too much about Marx? Not too many book for mandatory review. See people were not ready for this. But I did homework.
Marx in reality was not to help poor (he was also from rich family, what the paradox). He wanted chaos, destruction of everything.
Stalin did it practical way. He was killer even his family.
It was all about “poor” proletariat, hating Americans. They were all Soviet troubles. Everything was American fault.
Is in not parallel everyone blames Bush? There is nobody else to blame for.
For Europe everything again is fault of America.
There's always some truth hidden behind lies. You only need to have eyes 2 c. But I think you're a bit far off the truth. Not making much sense, I dare say
in my extremely humble opinion, there is a huge difference between religion and the bible and god.....
Religion is probably necessary to bring like minded people together. Reading the bible and understanding it's message and also it's values is what is important to me any way...
Obviously it is hard to believe that people could live to be hundreds of years old. I find it hard to grasp that people in this century and the last and before that always had a handful that lived well over 100 and the Genis Book of World records has one that was like 130 and they have way more proof than they wanted.
Many scientists believe that before the great flood it had never rained and the earth was watered by dew and mist and such, not yet a rain from the sky.
They think that the earth was covered by a protective canopy of sorts that shielded the age accelerating and harmful rays of the sun from getting through so strongly.
I guess less exposure allowed you to age slower.
Kind of like taking a piece of fruit off a tree, it starts to die right away because of detachment from it's life source, but if you keep it in a controlled environment it can last for weeks.
I mean, think about how long it takes to get from field, to warehouse, to cold storage, then picked up by the trucks owned by the grocery stores, then taken to the store and it sits even longer, then broken up and put on route trucks and delivered to the store where it sits some more then put out for sale, then you buy it and keep it for a long time etc...point made.
Our skin is much like the skin of a piece of fruit. Hey some people are actually a "fruit"
Anyways just some interesting thoughts. Nobody needs to beat me up yet.
Although Earnest my friend will give it a "WHACK" no doubt.
So, to sum up......
We have a talking snake, a mis translation meaning Noah was actually 900 "adjusted" years old, and built a 450x75x45 foot boat. using 200 Mexican laborers with nail guns and super glue in 4 "adjusted" weeks.
And a guy with a dead dog's head around his neck impersonating god who thinks "Many scientists.....think that the earth was covered by a protective canopy of sorts that shielded the age accelerating and harmful rays of the sun from getting through so strongly," which means people really did live to be 900 years old.
Sure - all sounds good to me. Do I get to go to heaven now?
ah no not at all however good you are at summing things up you will never get in there.....
i think that invitations are given out to the many just like to a dinner, who gives an rsvp that is on them.
heaven does not need me, but i chose to accept the invite.
when i invite someone to come to my house i do not expect them to come, i hold on lightly to the invite.
I think that if I am invited to dinner then I shouldn't be asked to pay for it as well.
by pisean2823117 years ago
what do u guys think about karl marx comments?
by Onusonus7 years ago
Please, please, please, pretty please.........
by PhenomWriter5 years ago
I believe that if you show people the problems and you show them the solutions they will be moved to act. ~Bill GatesReligious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering...
by Sooner284 years ago
First, I know Russia is no longer the USSR, but I used it because people always bring up the former Soviet Union.My challenge: point out the passage where Marx claimed a one man dictator was to rule over a society...
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