Can A Rational Individual Believe In God?

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  1. earnestshub profile image72
    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    Not true. You have toned it down. Try being homophobic again. smile

  2. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    It doesn't take college degrees to use logic.

  3. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Trained belief of your government god.

  4. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Ah, now lets put logic together how I know these things.


    4 years in an oligarchy belief system. The Marines. Do you think the marines is a republic or democracy?


    College serves you all well. Now go find my punctuation errors to correct to protect your faith contradicting logic.


    Logic wins over college degrees.

  5. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Do I need to keep going? Anything else would be repetitive. Did I spell that right?

  6. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Any book suggestions from the college educated? My illiterate mind seeks your college knowledge.

  7. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Is an oligarchy a separatist belief or a republic belief?


    Is the bible a separatist belief or a republic belief?


    Is the bible government ideaology or divine?


    Faith or Logic?

  8. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    I'm starting to feel like a preacher of logic. lol

  9. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Where are the believers that called me ignorant for my individual ideas?

    You need a picture of me to draw me into a monkey?

  10. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Does your government god create an oligarchy mind or a republic mind?

  11. atomswifey profile image56
    atomswifeyposted 15 years ago

    The Bible does not need to use any specific ideology to make its points. The Bible is God Word and does not fit into mans definitions. It is all truth. Being something as perfect as it is requires it nothing but just to be.
    God laid His Word out there for us to read and yes, follow. This is not driven politically by any stretch. Rather it is driven by love.  You equate the Bible to being somewhat of a socialist driven book. But it is far from that.
    God is not confined to mans perceptions of Him. He and His Word are above and beyond such things.
    People take man made words and language and then try to equate God and His Word to them.
    God is love.
    His Word was created and designed to reflect love, not bondage but freedom.
    Socialism is bondage. Separatism is a form of socialism. wiki defines it as
    .. the advocacy of a state of cultural, ethnic, tribal, religious, racial, governmental or gender separation from the larger group, often with demands for greater political
    autonomy and even for full political secession and the formation of a new state.

    The Bible does not fit into that definition of autonomy as God requires us not to separate from territories but to separate ourselves from falling into the ACT of sin. To separate ourselves from the "world" and the actions of it in the sense that we "come ye out and be ye separate." This means for us to live our lives according to God's laws and present ourselves as Christ did, in love.
    Socialism and communism which are related set out to dominate and control and love has no part in any of that it is for only power. Look at it this way, If God intended to "control" us we would not be having this conversation right now.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      So, if he didn't want to control us, why have the bible? Oh yeah, thats only guidance. lol Guidance of what to believe right? lol

  12. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    If you believe my ideas are so stupid, why are you guys having such a hard time disproving them? Because you have no logic, only faith? lol

  13. aware profile image65
    awareposted 15 years ago

    if i worship the sun as my god. and the sun is real. then my god is real.what proof of my god .simply look up.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Great reason to believe the bible as god.


      lol


      He used dirt to create man in the bible, what did he use on the sun? A leaf? lol


      Oh yes, "let there be light, and the sun was created." Great explanation. Explain the demensions of the man built temple, but not the creation of the sun. lol

      1. ediggity profile image62
        ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        It's all made basically the same way just different elements.  The sun's are mainly Hydrogen and Helium give or take.

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          So...it's perfectly logical to have countless pages of temple construction telling how a temple is built, but "let there be light = the sun". lol Is this logical to you?

          1. ediggity profile image62
            ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I don't think GOD was to concerned with humans needing to construct another sun.  Had there been a need, I'm sure he would have told us how to do it.

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, he tells us how to construct temples in his divine book, but doesn't tell how to keep innocents from dying.

              Perfectly logical. lol

              1. ediggity profile image62
                ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                I'm sorry, I don't know of these innocents you speak of?  GOD acknowledged that he cursed, and condemned generations.

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Why does he curse his own creation?

                  Wouldn't a curse be intervention of free will?


                  Are innocent children that die to pay for our sins?


                  I thought jesus already paid for our sins?

                  1. ediggity profile image62
                    ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                    It's not about his "creation" it's about the choice his creation makes.  If you have faith, then you have no worries.  As for innocent children, it's not really a valid argument, because GOD sacrificed his only son to save his creation.  Not everyone is supposed to live forever.  I can't explain why people die when they do. Only GOD knows, but I do know that we all die.

    2. TheLoanConsultant profile image60
      TheLoanConsultantposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      By the same token someone could worship their coffee maker, which is also real. If they want proof, simply go in the kitchen.

  14. prettydarkhorse profile image65
    prettydarkhorseposted 15 years ago

    i enjoyed reading the exchange of arguments, what is to be rational? and what is to be logical? do we always use reason, how about emotion, its what the world is made of, we are humans, we need emotions to prove things?
    what is God? who is God? Do we need to become existentialist? do we really need to see a tangible thing so that it will exist?

  15. earnestshub profile image72
    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    The whole story is a pile. I just cannot understand why anyone would continue to discount evolution and disregard thousands of linked theories created from empirical evidence that runs across all the sciences, and cannot remain a valid theory unless matched.

    Deny and try to debunk what is self evidently knowable and understandable in favor of a hateful neurotic account of a self proclaiming entity that is invisible, never shows up to fix HIS mess, blames his creation for the worlds ills which are caused by his other creation anyway.
    All this with no evidence to support this ridiculous believe system even after thousands of years.
    Only indoctrination through fear can explain to me why this belief has been around so long.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think they get it. That is a logical statement.

    2. ediggity profile image62
      ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      If anyone can unequivocally prove evolution there would be no disagreement between the religious, or scientists alike.  There is no non non circular proof of evolution, big bang theory, or any of your other "thousand of linked theories", which again would mean not one concrete reason.  It just doesn't exist, and if you can make it exist, you will become a very powerful, wealthy, and worshiped person.

      Here's a pretty interesting read for some of you scientific/technical types. Dr. Swineburn uses Bayes Theorem to prove the resurrection of Jesus.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/11/arts/11GOD.html

      It's basically a presentation that explains some of his book.
      The Resurrection of God Incarnate

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

        lol



        So just because you don't believe evolution, you pick the bible to believe? Logical. lol

        1. earnestshub profile image72
          earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          There is no need to prove all the theories of science to debunk the bible. Look at the evidence. There is more knowledge about evolution arriving daily through medical science alone. New finds are providing more proof constantly.
          You are basing your beliefs on one old book obviously written by men. Their psychosis on display for all to see.

          You believe is the so called "word" of an unproven invisible god who changes nothing in this world as evidenced by the state it is in.
          If someone finds their car keys it is gods work, yet a child lies dying and this same "instant god" is nowhere to be found. What a crazy hateful heartless stupid belief!
          All good is from god, all bad is from man, caused by one of this gods other neurotic hateful entity. Madness!

          1. ediggity profile image62
            ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah, because those THEORIES have been around a lot longer then the BIBLE. LOL. You believe in non existent proof of a THEORY, which can scientifically be disproven, and which scientist who are not religious work toward disproving every day. When we evolve into a super monkey I hope we can still type.  Or maybe we will evolve into a Vulcan, or better yet Darth Vador.  Now that would be pretty cool.  When does the next evolution time frame take place?  I've always wanted to fly.

        2. ediggity profile image62
          ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Evolutions not the only THEORY I don't believe.  I don't believe in any of them.

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            You don't believe any theories, but you believe the bible. The bible has less credibility than a theory. It's meaning is clear. It's only meaning is control unless you use faith and interpretation to counter the contradictions.

            1. ediggity profile image62
              ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Sorry, but you can't compare the BIBLE with THEORY.  THEORY, used in the context of evolution is part of the scientific method. It's like comparing a differential equation to a cooking recipe.  I can't make assumptions or excuses for every religious persons actions interpretations of the BIBLE.  All I can say is if you read the BIBLE, and have faith in Jesus, it will answer a lot of your questions.  If you feel that believing in the BIBLE is irrational, separatist, illogical etc. that is fine. However, the BIBLE has been around longer than any of those THEORIES.

              1. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                A lot of things have been around a long time. That doesn't mean new things aren't learned about them. You need to evolve. Do you think because something is old, it's right? lol Is that logic?

                1. ediggity profile image62
                  ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Nope, I learn new things all the time.  I don't think because something is new it is right either.  I also study new and old, but I also have faith.

                  1. dentist83 profile image61
                    dentist83posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                    Nice to see you here again,  Earnest , marine amd ediggit...  Another day at hubpages forum! big_smile

                  2. marinealways24 profile image60
                    marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                    Do you use faith where logic doesn't fit or has your faith changed your logic?

  16. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    A separatist government god of favoritism.

  17. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Who has spoken logic without running in circles, believers or non believers of the bible?

  18. Cagsil profile image69
    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    How ever,

    Jesus Christ also wanted everyone on the same page.

    In that essence, he wasn't a separatist. He only wanted people to guide themselves, so they could achieve more and not be limited by false words giving way to false belief in a false god.

  19. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Here is a question that faith and interpretation will not get anyone through.



    Which 2 minds would learn more?

    A) 2 minds that have the same belief as one another

    B) 2 minds that have different beliefs from one another




    The bible one belief system contradicts learning.

  20. earnestshub profile image72
    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    It is obvious to any half reasonable reader that the bible was not meant to be taken literally. smile
    It is also apparent to me it should be taken with a grain of salt. smile
    The old testament was a pile of hate filled pages apparently from some neurotic venom filled entity.
    The new testament is an apology for the OT, forever wrangling around meaning and re inventing new even more ridiculous theories to explain away the OT.
    We all know that their are hundreds of different religions formed from reading the same book. You can't all be right. It is a nonsense to arrive at a belief in something so neurotic and excluding of all others.
    The stories from the bible were all told long before, and changed to be more usable to control the masses.
    That some still profess believe in this rubbish as the word of some no show entity in 2009 is mind boggling. smile

  21. earnestshub profile image72
    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    Do you know anything about evolution at all? smile

    1. ediggity profile image62
      ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, unfortunately I do.

  22. zadrobi profile image61
    zadrobiposted 15 years ago

    No

  23. dentist83 profile image61
    dentist83posted 15 years ago

    ups I wrote the names  two times

  24. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Can you prove my ideas wrong with logic or only faith and interpretation?

  25. dentist83 profile image61
    dentist83posted 15 years ago

    My friend marine, I believe that the fullness of God is within us.  To know God we have to learn from the master inside of us.  There is no sense to look outside or in the sky for a creator or in a book, since we are the creator himself made flesh.  When we go against logic , we are going against the divine justice, against the creator.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Are you a prophet?

  26. Cagsil profile image69
    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    Maybe I can help?

    You're faith is your true proof?

    Okay, Do believe in Jesus Christ?

    Do you believe in his teachings?

    Is that where your faith is based or is it true for all text written?

    If your faith is based solely on Jesus Christ's teachings, yet you still believe in GOD, then obviously you don't understand time that Jesus Christ lived or you've simply looked past his teachings and simply believe in GOD, which doesn't exist.

    So, I await your answers to my question and I will do what I can to fill in the blanks.

    1. ediggity profile image62
      ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      1. Isn't a question, it's a statement.

      2. Yes

      3. Yes

      4. My faith is based in the BIBLE.

      1. Cagsil profile image69
        Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Okay,

        question #1)Do you believe in Jesus Christ?

        You're faith is true proof....had a question mark, because proof is proof.

        So, you believe in Jesus Christ. And, you believe in his teachings, but you still believe in GOD?

        How? Jesus Christ's teachings were only good for those who he helped....they have absolutely NO relevance to life now.

        His teachings were to people who didn't know they had a consciousness? These people didn't know who they are or where the came from, because they were still controlled by nature.

        His guidance was to lead his followers to HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS, so they could be aware of their own existence and make their own decisions.

        He was against anything the so-called "mystics" or "insight" gurus of the time.

        Religion and all text, except for some of Jesus Christ's teachings, are to be disregarded and considered junk.

        If you weren't aware of this information, then I am glad I could help.

        1. ediggity profile image62
          ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Funny, I've never seen the words "human consciousness", "mystic", or "insight guru" referenced once in the BIBLE.  I can't help the way you interpret the teaching of Jesus.  If that is what you want to believe instead of the BIBLE, then more power to you.

          1. Cagsil profile image69
            Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            What do you think life is?

            Human consciousness.

            1. ediggity profile image62
              ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Ok, make up whatever you want.  My made up term for life that's not in the BIBLE is Human awakeness.

  27. Cagsil profile image69
    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    Wow!

    Are you people even listening to yourselves?

    I'm sitting here bantering back and forth between "Should gays/lesbians be afford rights? and here.

    What seems to amaze me is the simple fact that I asked a few questions in my post, but got no takers?

    Why?

    Are you afraid your faith won't hold?

  28. Cagsil profile image69
    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    Hey ediggity.

    You're going to sit there and say, that you've NEVER found a single contradiction, whenever you read it?

    Then, I'd say your not reading too good.

    1. ediggity profile image62
      ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I never said that at all.  I think if you START around page 25 of this topic, you will find my thoughts on how to interpret the BIBLE.  Sorry, but I am not going to repeat myself if you don't want to read.

      1. Cagsil profile image69
        Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        okay, no prob.

  29. Margie01 profile image60
    Margie01posted 15 years ago

    Wow! I have never heard anyone say that Jesus' teachings don't apply to life now!

    His teachings were around; Living life through love and in the direction of our Lord. He taught us and is still teaching us how to be the best we can be in his image.

    The commandments that were handed down by God are the same commandements that our laws are built on.  So where ever you received your information or belief from I do think you should re-examine that.

  30. profile image0
    zampanoposted 15 years ago

    In a summer morning, a lot of people who leave by the sea, decide to spend their day at the beach.
    Some take their cars and drive to the beach, some take the train.
    Some ride a bike, some a cycle.
    Some just walk.

    All of them get to the beach at different moments.
    Obviously they squat at differant places on the warm sand.
    Some are very far away from others, some are really close.
    Still, if they care to look, they all have the same ocean reflected in their eyes.
    And walking is very good for one's health.

    1. maven101 profile image70
      maven101posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      But some folks will see that ocean through a different lens...fear, beauty, challenge, and nostalgia...

      1. profile image0
        zampanoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        That is the point.
        They all can speak about it. Some will see it blue, some green.
        But everyone will agree on its measured salinity, temperature, density, wind force, etc. (rational)
        The fantasy facette is up to each one to manage and express according to one's capacities. (irrational ?)
        This latter should be the wealthy side of mind that proselites reduce to propaganda.

        1. maven101 profile image70
          maven101posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Since when is the irrational the " wealthy side of mind "..? Not sure what your POINT is but just for the sake of discussion, suppose they were all looking at the Christian Bible. Certainly they would all agree that there are words inscribed therein; that it is composed of many pages; that the material is paper...these are merely physical characteristics, like your salinity, temperature, density, etc of the perceived ocean...when these same folks are asked to describe their interpretation of the Bible's contents you have an orgy of opinion and contentious disagreement...

          It is in the interpretation of data that folks disagree...that's why we have critical thinking and intellectual discipline...Does the search for Truth follow this equation: Faith=Belief=Truth ?

          Truth for me is revealed everyday when I experience the sure knowledge of my granddaughters love for me...That's more than enough Truth for me I think...

          1. profile image0
            zampanoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            If my memory is good, the question was to know if a rational individual can believe in god.

            I tried to present rational attitudes.
            He can believe in god not using his rationality, science or whatever rational is, but in vertue of his imagination.
            They all agree with scientific measuring and they try to reveal the knowledge of what must be behind the "visible reality" of the ocean, but that doesn't keep them from inventing Poseidon and all the broads festing at Olimpus mount.
            It is this facette of human mind, dream, fantasy, imagination that I qualified as wealthy.
            Because it is dream that makes man transcend reality and achieve great deeds.
            In this sense, rational and irrational are not completely opposed attitudes or states.
            In this sense, an educated man who keeps a place for "god" in his mind is not a freak at all.

            It is with great pleasure that I aknowledge the fact that your granddaughters make you happy.
            You must be a nice grand father too.

            1. maven101 profile image70
              maven101posted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Haw !...To be honest, I think its because I let them get away with murder...Au revoir, mon ami...Larry

  31. Eaglekiwi profile image73
    Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago

    It hasnt closed mine marine , actually its done the opposite smile

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Did they add more pages to the bible?

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
        Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        I have no idea , my rationality doesnt depend on a man made opbject . does yours?

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Yes. My individual mind. I decide what it learns and believes rather than rely on a book that tells me what to believe.

          1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
            Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I think that thinking kinda limits the mind though, there is( I believe) so much more ....just because we dont yet understand it , doesnt mean it is not so ( or does not exist) smile

            1. ediggity profile image62
              ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Couldn't have summed it up better myself.

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
                Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Thankyou ( and Im sure ya could have) smile

                1. Evolution Guy profile image59
                  Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  lol

                  That is where the sheeple come from. That is the funniest thing I have heard from this one so far.

                  Thinking limits the mind. lol lol Good one. Proves the point really.

                  1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
                    Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
            2. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

              lol Thinking limits the mind? Seriously?

              You say you are open to belief, but you believe in absolute terms of bible god. Does this make sense to you? Do you not believe you go to heaven when you die? Is this not absolute belief through faith? Absolute faith/belief contradicts learning.

    2. ediggity profile image62
      ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly my point.  Some people will never get it.

  32. Eaglekiwi profile image73
    Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago

    True smile

    Faith cannot be simply defined either in the secular world or spiritual world either.

    But if you have faith ( in God) the size of a mustard seed , that is more than enough...smile

  33. Eaglekiwi profile image73
    Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago

    I think marine did state his position clearly

    He requires proof to believe in anything , therefore he hasnt seen God , cant/wont believe hes there ,or exists.

    I loves ya anyways smile

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I love you too, but how do you know his name is god?

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
        Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        He has many names smile

        But he knows mine , thats the main thing!

        Havent you ever known something was right ( true for yourself) but ya jus couldnt explain it , you just knew!!
        ( The Bible calls it ,the Holy Spirit witnessing, truth) deep into our soul/spirit/mind)

        Thats is my explanation for me knowing , THEN other concepts beging to fall into place.

        Gods works the opposite way to mansmind...

        The intellectual mind finds that hard to grasp, because its used to it happening the way around... ie thought , proof ,fact , belief...

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          There are many things I don't know of or can't explain. This doesn't make me be a weak dependent mind to believe a separatist contradictory bible. I leave belief open, it's not defined in a book or title. Individual belief leads, grouped belief follows. You are in a grouped belief of a government god.

  34. Cagsil profile image69
    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    Back to this GOD situation again.

    I swear, people who embrace "religion" or the idea of "GOD" are subjectively negating their own responsibility for their life.

    If you choose to believe in GOD as of a real substance, because that's what all Humankind can understand is real things, then obviously you have wrongly interpreted your own religion.

    I would suggest you get enlightened about what you're really believing in?

    If you listen or read "religious" text, as well, as Jesus Christ's teachings...then obviously you've missed something or don't completely understand.

    Your individual ignorance will be your undoing, because when your life(consciousness) ends.....you will be dead and what you believe won't matter.

    And, the only reason for your death, will be at fault of your belief in GOD, the mythical figure, which will have drained your ability to live your life, as you were intended.

  35. Cagsil profile image69
    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    What's up Evolutionary Guy?

    Seems like the same continued argument. LOL

    1. Evolution Guy profile image59
      Evolution Guyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Slowly, slowly people are changing.

      The easy option - as we know - is to turn your brain off. And somehow claim this is the "rational" choice......

      It is only the last few years it has been possible to actively speak out against the sheeple. These guys are a lost cause, but the next generation? For sure will not believe this rubbish. Dinosaurs on Noah's Ark LOLOLOLOL

      1. Cagsil profile image69
        Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Dinosaurs on Noah's Ark? LOL!

        Isn't the timeline....slightly skewed.

        I think so.

        1. wyanjen profile image69
          wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          lol
          C'mon now, the story of Noah's ark is simply a metaphor.
          (Metaphor is what you call it when you realize how ridiculous a story is, but you just can't let it go.)

          1. Cagsil profile image69
            Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I know, I just thought I would bait on the continued joke known as a contradiction to life, such as religion.

            You know, one of the stupid things people say, to prove they are right.....again....that's why I laughed, when I said "Dinosaurs on Noah's Ark?"

            I know the basis for the story, but I thought I would throw the timeline out there, because even that dismisses what many people believe.

  36. Cagsil profile image69
    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    Religion is a hoax.

    Plain and simple. It has been perpetuated thru centuries, because mystics or those who claim to have insight to "GOD", believe the common person couldn't justify their own life.

    They believed humankind couldn't live, without moral guidance from an authoritive higher power.

    Now, do realize: the age period started about 10,000 years ago.

    Humankind has been subjected to it's perpetuated lie, for centuries.

    It's now time for you to accept your life, for what it is and not what you're lead to believe.

    You want CHANGE in the world....then accept your life and what it truly means?

    Then, and only then, can humankind move beyond the hoax.

  37. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

    ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.



    Why can I google your silly belief book and find countless contradictions in seconds?


    Work of the devil? lol

    1. spiderpam profile image73
      spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Context is key marine.

      1. Cagsil profile image69
        Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        You're right context is key and religion uses it's own context in the interpretation of it's doctrine.

        You MUST OBEY their message.

        You MUST DO as you're told, through doctrines and scriptures.

        How ever, if you achieve context, even your own, it is still based on a lie, perpetuated for centuries.

        1. spiderpam profile image73
          spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Interesting for you to say it's a lie means you imply you know the truth, but if we are just here and are to determine truth for yourselves how can you  honestly tell what is a lie. You’re taking Christians morals to oppose God, but if He is not real your words are meaningless and subjective. But I can say in all rational and logic my God(the God of the bible) is Truth. Honestly all you can say is “I am nothing without God.”

    2. ediggity profile image62
      ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      That's it?  Did you even read Exodus?  That was a song Moses was singing with the children after he destroyed the Egyptians.  There is a lot more to that song, and that part is basically saying that you messed with GOD and you felt the wrath.  Everyone take heed.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

        So since they didn't believe Moses, the magic prophet, God destroyed his on creation for having a different belief.

        lol Makes perfect sense. Of course, this is before god parted the ocean to kill the innocent egyptians that were only following orders. Did moses talk to all egyptians or just 1? lol

        1. ediggity profile image62
          ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          No, because Pharaoh hardened his heart.  There was no they.  Pharaoh was responsible.  Any Egyptian serving could have put down his arms, and chosen not to follow.

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Ah, so Moses only favored to talk to Pharaoh. No favoritism. So the picky god decided to kill all of the innocent followers of Pharoah, even though Pharoah never told his followers what Moses said. lol A loving bible god. lol

            1. ediggity profile image62
              ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Moses favored to talk to no one.  He just did as GOD commanded.  Come on man I know you read the same thing I did.

              1. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                So your silly bible god kills innocent egyptians to prove a point because Pharoah didn't listen? Doesn't sound like a logical god to me. lol I thought God can talk to everyone. Why did he only choose 1 person? Is this part of a divine rule or would he be intervening too much if he talked to everyone? Why did he intervene to talk to one and not all? Why didn't moses have free will? Your government god is pretty silly if you ask me.

                1. Cagsil profile image69
                  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Hey Marine,

                  You know why GOD talked to only Moses?

                  Because, Moses wasn't of free will. Moses couldn't rationalize his own existence, and the audio hallucinations he had were an abstract of the right-side of his brain, which at the time, was still guided by nature.

                  Therefore, the hallucination made him believe in a higher authority. Which is exactly what the Pharaoh disapproved of because his own so-called "mystics" told him Moses was a fraud.

                2. spiderpam profile image73
                  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Define innocent. Where do you get your basis in logic for such a word.

                  1. marinealways24 profile image60
                    marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                    Innocent children die each day from diseases and sickness. Where is your bible gods divine intervention to save them?

                3. ediggity profile image62
                  ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't know why GOD does what he does.  He's GOD.  GOD gave Pharaoh many chances to listen and acknowledge Moses.  Pharaoh even said he was going to, but he tricked Moses and hardened his heart again.  It wasn't like Moses rolled up and said, "hey dude, do what I say right now, or bad things are going to happen"  Before each plague there was the request to let the Israelite go, but Pharaoh said screw you, I'm Pharaoh.  All he had to do was leave them alone, and let them go.

                  1. marinealways24 profile image60
                    marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                    lol

  38. aware profile image65
    awareposted 15 years ago

    wana give legs to a forum? add the word god. i feel for god if there is such a thing. its concept is beat to death constantly .by assume rs

  39. Cagsil profile image69
    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    Let me add......

    You cannot even prove "GOD" exists, except from what your told.

    Your faith is misplaced in a false god, which you are purposely told by religion NOT to do.

    So, what now?

    1. ediggity profile image62
      ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know? What now?  Can you prove he doesn't exist?

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Logic proves your bible god doesn't exist.

        1. earnestshub profile image72
          earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          More proof of evolution arrived yesterday that will take a leap of faith to jump over! smile

        2. spiderpam profile image73
          spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          How do you determine logic if everything in your view is subjective? You can be tyrannical and borrow from Christians, but you do as a hypocrite.

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            lol What do I do as a hypocrite? What do I borrow from Christians? There are no contradictions in logic. The bible contradicts having an individual mind to develop an individual belief. The bible is to control animals and give them something to believe. I'm not a trained animal. I'm an individaul one. The kind bible believers hate because individuals challenge their belief and faith.

            1. spiderpam profile image73
              spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              What is logic? It is material? Can you see it? No. To claim logic you must determine what determines logic or who? Is it you, me society, nature?  How do draw the conclusion of whose logic is true logic? If we are to determine logic for ourselves we must first search for a logic giver. I choose God as the logic giver, you on the other hand have no logic you're simply spouting empty words in a desperately attempt to explain it all. Are you there yet? And when you get there how can you be sure it is true or even valid? What will you use to determine the validity of your own logic?
              You continue to imply Christians are dumb blind faith holders could it be they have found the only true truth while you’re in the dark with no flashlight? I think yes. you imply you know the truth, but if we are just here and are to determine truth for yourselves how can you  honestly tell what is a lie. You’re taking Christians morals to oppose God, but if He is not real your words are meaningless and subjective. But I can say in all rational and logic my God(the God of the bible) is Truth. Honestly all you can say is “I am nothing without God.”

              1. Cagsil profile image69
                Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                To put things in proper perspective, I'm going to explain the past, so you can figure it out.

                Mysticism: Is the mental condition that seeks guidance and answers from external authority. Mysticism first occurred 10,000 years ago in primitive man as an attempt to explain death. Mysticism was rampant in the mentalility of man, as man tried to evoke the voices of the gods for guidance. The Bicameral(two-chambered brain of man) man routinely performed mystical rituals to evoke the gods. For example, bicameral man continually built mystical awe-inspiring statues, tombs, pyramids, colossuses to evoke the voices of the gods. The American Indians were bicameral when the first Eurpoeans explorers arrived. Mysticism was part of the Indians' survival mechanism, seeking guidance from the gods of nature. Although mysticism rose from the primitive mind, mysticism still resides in your mind today. Humankind seeks guidance from other within jobs, religion and governments. The mysticism in your mind is unnecessary; it is merely residual from the primitive mind and blocks you from integrating knowledge to guide yourself.

                This is part one, wait for part two, because I'm not done yet.

                1. spiderpam profile image73
                  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Great way to avoid through copy/paste, but it's still subjective meaningless words coming for you. You have no basis for such objective words in your subjective view. In other words blah blah,blah

                  1. Cagsil profile image69
                    Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                    That simply means that you are CLOSED minded.

                    And, that ends this debate.

                    I refuse to try to explain myself, who isn't open to reality.

              2. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Your god is a government separatist god. Not divine. Logic doesn't consist of contradictions. Your bible is one big contradiction.

      2. Cagsil profile image69
        Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Science proved everything about Life. What else do you want?

        We know how the universe came to be? NOT god's work.

        We know how humankind came to be through evolution? NOT god's work.

        We know how humankind came to think? Which again, not god's work.

        The Evolution of Earth and it's Moon, is what created life-forms on Earth. Again, not god's work. Proved by Science.

        So, How is it that he is supposedly to have existed?

        Where? There is no room for a higher authority to exist.

        1. spiderpam profile image73
          spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          If there is no Higher, you list is simply a whismical conjecture. 

          If there is no Higher, your above list is simply a whimsical conjecture.  Meaningless at best, but keep borrowing from us you’re proving point swimmingly.

          Where has we seen life com from non-life?

          Where did the space for the universe come from?

          Where did matter come from?

          Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?

          How did matter get so perfectly organized?

          Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?

          There plenty of room is these holes

        2. ediggity profile image62
          ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Do you have any understanding of science whatsoever, or do you just try to argue science from a philosophical point of view?  Start on page 25.

  40. earnestshub profile image72
    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    Watch the news and see your religions keep losing credibility as you fail to accept the truth as more undeniable new discoveries prove up evolution. smile

    The response from the religious loonies will be to stretch "context" to work around every new proof as it arrives. smile

    Soon religious belief will become even more bizzare as it becomes blatantly obvious even to religionists that there is no god.

    1. ediggity profile image62
      ediggityposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I guess only time will tell then.

  41. Cagsil profile image69
    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    Oh, by the way,

    Can I prove he doesn't exist?

    Under any normal circumstances- anything REAL doesn't need prove of exist, because it's real.

    GOD is a mythical figure, without substance. Therefore, not real.

    Only a delusional person can believe in something that really doesn't exists.

    Last time I checked....some doctors have committed people for believing in delusions.

    GOD is an illusion, perpretuated hoax, which is only seen to those who are or have reached the "enlightenment" stage.

    Seriously, put the doctrines of religion to a test and you'll learn the truth- religion is a lie and completely out of context.

  42. earnestshub profile image72
    earnestshubposted 15 years ago

    I just think it funny how one can read a book and the meaning is clear to all, yet the bible is different. It says anything you like it to say! lol

    Written by psychotic men who treated women like dirt!

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image73
      Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      On the contrary Earnest , I am set free in Christ smile not bound by the whims of the world . I used to feel I had to conform to society, be it social customs and habits to 'fit in' I dont anymore, or I am confident to be who I want.

      Psychotic men have always treated women ( and men) like dirt.
      In fact on the news every night we all know them .

      What exactly do you mean...

      1. earnestshub profile image72
        earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Women treated as chattels, women as slaves, the prescribed way to beat your wife, rape, etc etc etc.... all part of the book. smile

        1. spiderpam profile image73
          spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          If there is no God, Why do you these thing wrong? Your view doesn't give you such luxuary. It's all subjective.

          1. earnestshub profile image72
            earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I understand that these type of men have always been around, but why all the hate and loathing for women in the bible? This is the basis of religious belief, and it is a nonsense. The neurotic, psychotic hate filled and threatening text is the basis for a sensible belief? Not to me. smile

            1. spiderpam profile image73
              spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Nice try, but you still have answered my question. You're starting with Christian views and using the bible to point out something Christians know is wrong, Why? because of God you on the other are just flapping gums.

  43. tantrum profile image61
    tantrumposted 15 years ago

    Why would I say 'I'm nothing without God ' if I don't believe in him ?

    1. spiderpam profile image73
      spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      You have basis in nothing it's subjective, meaningless, empty. On the hand Christian hold basis in God objective, meaninful, full and complete. You are nothing without God. It's pretty simple.

      1. tantrum profile image61
        tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        It's not pretty simple. Not believing in God doesn't mean one's empty or meaningless. People have other convictions and other truths as valid as your own. I have. Not believing in God doesn't mean one is not spiritual. Saying the things you say is not very 'christian' at all. Why despise other people just because they don't believe the same as you ?

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Because this is what her separatist bible teaches to protect her faith.

          lol

        2. tantrum profile image61
          tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          You don't have anything to say?
          Am i entitled to my beliefs ?
          Am I entitled to be something more than meaningless and empty ?

          1. spiderpam profile image73
            spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            If you're truly honest Yes and No. You claim my God isn't real. You have no basis for such a claim, Everything you say/believe is subjective, You can say you hold values and beliefs, but without a standard in which to base those values and beliefs it's simply a conjecture the void of meaning. In your view God isn't real because he is  immaterial. But  are your values and beliefs material? No. So how can your know you have them. If you still think you have them how can you trust them?

            1. tantrum profile image61
              tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              I know I have them by the way I act among other human beings and in life in general. I prefer to trust myself, than a God  in whom I can't believe

            2. Cagsil profile image69
              Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Pam LIFE is subjective in nature, because you have a CONSCIOUS which allows you make decisions.

              You seem to be talking with out understanding of Life's real meaning an hiding behind what's you been taught thru religion.

              If you form a belief and that belief is based on a lie, that means your belief is wrongly perceived.

              1. Cagsil profile image69
                Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                What's right or what's wrong is perceived by your own honesty with yourself.

                Everyone knows what is right and what is wrong. It was taught to them by parents.

                Yes, probably some parents did learn from religion, but in TODAY's society.....religion now has no place.

                The continued perpetuating of mysticism by religious/spiritual leaders is directly related to why YOU have a holier-than-thou attitude.

                I'm even willing to be you don't even understand your own religion, because if you did....YOU wouldn't be debating this issue, bceause you'd already know it's a hoax.

                1. spiderpam profile image73
                  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  My father raped my now decease sister should I take after him? Why not. If parental guidance is key. What about kids brought up in abusive homes and grow up to never abuse anyone through the power of God how can you fault such a Creator? and Why?

                  1. tantrum profile image61
                    tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                    where was the so called creator when your sister was raped ?  People have minds and consciousness, that's why they seldom repeat paren's faults

        3. spiderpam profile image73
          spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          You seem so upset, Why? Don't run from your atheist views now when your are faced with what it really means. How do know what is Christian you know nothing of my God.

          1. tantrum profile image61
            tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Yes I do ! I was 'Christian' once  lol
            and I don't run from my atheist views.  I stand by them.

            1. tantrum profile image61
              tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              So you think i'm upset? Why would I be ? you're the one trying to give a sensible answer for your beliefs. Not me ! big_smile

          2. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            lol Your god?


            So you are favored. lol Ignorant bible believers. Keep the separatist faith!

          3. Uninvited Writer profile image77
            Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            And you know nothing about atheism and those who do not believe in God. Many people who don't believe in God were brought up as Christians so know all too well...

            1. tantrum profile image61
              tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              I was one of those !

          4. earnestshub profile image72
            earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            You failed to see how rude and arrogant your comment was.

  44. Cagsil profile image69
    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    The Bicameral mentalility:

    The Bicameral age lasted from 10000 to 3000 year ago. Bicameral man automatically reacted to the world around him. He did not have the inner mind space we have today that allows us to think and make decisions, which is known as human consciousness. As in all animals, he was guided by nature's automatic guidance system. His two-chamber brain was so much larger than the other animals, however, he evolved a primitive language.

    Nature's guidance system actually incorporated his language to better guide bicameral man. In other words, instad of guiding him through strong mental impressions that caused the body to react as with other animals, man's large bicameral mind actually "spoke" those impressions. The impressions were far clearer, far more effective as spoken words "of the gods". Those messages were actually audio hallucinations caused by neurological impulses set off in his right-chamber brain. Bicameral man was guided through the "commands" of his personal "god". Bicameral civilizations were guided by their GOD-Kings and oracles who "heard" the higher ghods and, in turn, gave direction to the entire civilization.

    Physically speaking, our brain today is identical to the bicameral brain 3000 years ago. But the inner mind space that allows us to think and make decisions known as human consciousness did not open up until the sophistication of man's developing language. To make a long story short, about 3000 year ago, bicameral man's language evolved the metaphor, which uses something to describe something else. That sophisticated linguistic tool - the metaphor - enabled bicameral man to separate from teh world around him, unlike any other animal.

    With the metaphor, he was able to increasingly step back and view the world subjectively, think about it, introspect, and eventually make decisions. Instead of automatically following a "voice", he was now able to think and guide himself. As the inner mind space known as human consciousness opened up within man, he no longer needed external guidance from the voices of the "gods", GOD-Kings, or oracles. He only needed to think.

    Wait...there is more.

    1. spiderpam profile image73
      spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Great way to avoid through copy/paste, but it's still subjective meaningless words coming for you. You have no basis for such objective words in your subjective view. In other words blah blah,blah

  45. Cagsil profile image69
    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    And, by the way.

    NOTHING in what I typed was subjective.

    It's been researched for over 20+ year by me and others before me.

    Everything in life is backed by science.

    GOD isn't real.

  46. tantrum profile image61
    tantrumposted 15 years ago

    Now she's gone. I would like an apology !

    1. spiderpam profile image73
      spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      No apology, Who how determine what I did is wrong, by feelings? How can you trust feeling they're immaterial.

      1. tantrum profile image61
        tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        So how can you trust God? Is he material ? Really ? I think you're lost

        1. spiderpam profile image73
          spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          How can you not without such figure you are in a black hole of subjective nonsense.

          1. tantrum profile image61
            tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            nothing  more to say than subjective nonsense ? ?

            1. spiderpam profile image73
              spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Yes You have no foundational you can trust, so to trust yourself means to trust anything. Why not God?

              1. tantrum profile image61
                tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Because he doesn't exist. simple as that.

                1. Cagsil profile image69
                  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Reality says on things of a real nature can affect/effect people's lives.

                  GOD isn't real, in reality.

                2. spiderpam profile image73
                  spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  How can you claim an abosoulte? Your view does not allow such a statement. You can borrow the free will from christian worldview which gives you such a right(th right not to believe) but with your subjective POV who cares what you say.

                  1. profile image0
                    cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                    you did when you declared me (and my son) completely lacking in morality just because we do not worship your god.

                    i could be wrong, but i don't think that is the way to get people to listen to your message.

                  2. tantrum profile image61
                    tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                    I care what I say.And I have the right. You're being so rude I will not answer

  47. Uninvited Writer profile image77
    Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago

    Because most of us were brought up to have values and standards. The Golden Rule does not have to have a religious basis. It is very insulting to say that just because you don't believe in God that you have no values.

    1. spiderpam profile image73
      spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I'm saying without God what need do you have for value they're subjectie and anyone can be right.
      "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them." -Matthew 7:12

    2. tantrum profile image61
      tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      she's so arrogant, that she can't see far. I forgive her poor soul sad

  48. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
              Gen 6:5,7
             
    Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
              Gen 8:21

    lol

    1. spiderpam profile image73
      spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Context in key. I see you somehow got out of facing the reality of you absurd position.

  49. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    God cannot lie
              Heb 6:18
             
    God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits to deceive
              2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9

    1. earnestshub profile image72
      earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      What a complete nonsense this thread is becoming.
      We are arguing with someone who believes that those who do not believe the bible as she reads it have no morals!
      Ignorance by choice. lol

      1. spiderpam profile image73
        spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Blah Blah Blah

  50. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    God tempts men
              Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
             
    God tempts no man
              James 1:13

    1. profile image0
      cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
      GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

      GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
      GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

      GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
      GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.

      1. spiderpam profile image73
        spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        He recalling the events of creation. Give me a tougher one

        1. wyanjen profile image69
          wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Answer this one first. Which of the contradictions are the correct ones.

      2. earnestshub profile image72
        earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        God is satisfied with his works
                 Gen 1:31
                God is dissatisfied with his works.
                 Gen 6:6
        God dwells in chosen temples
                 2 Chron 7:12,16
                God dwells not in temples
                 Acts 7:48

        1. spiderpam profile image73
          spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Context is key

          1. earnestshub profile image72
            earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            And the context is decided by who? You?

            1. spiderpam profile image73
              spiderpamposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              Nope! God and His Word. Just read it in context than try to make the same point.

              1. Cagsil profile image69
                Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                You continue to say read it in context.

                But, that argument is already flawed, because the wording is already out of context, before you even read one word.

                So, your interpretation is meaningless....kind of like religion.

 
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Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)