Do You Believe in the Devil?

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drej2522posted 15 years ago
Cagsil is so serious all of a sudden...wow
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I am trying to add to my knowledge of what I know about Life in general and since I have no affilation with religion, because I'm no longer a believer, like I use to be.
  
  I've come to an understanding that there is truly more to life than what the people are being told.
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
Now, remember, we can only go by what Jesus Christ taught people then. To understand- because he was a real conscious human being.

His teachings are what religion preaches, only because it incorporated his works.

He wasn't a minister of religion. He was a teacher of consciousness.

He never participated in any religious belief himself.
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  mistyhorizon2003posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Forgive the pun, but to play 'Devil's Advocate' here, what if Jesus, (who I do believe in by the way), was actually a great prophet, and not the "Son of God" as we were always taught? (not saying I am definitely right, but what if?)
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I really don't need a response....I open a topic to discuss Jesus Christ the MAN.
  
  Not a god. Not a prophet. Not a minister.
  
  But, as a TEACHER.
  
  I believe religion is hiding the truth from people.
  
  I believe Jesus Christ's teachings have been incorporated into religious text to prevent mankind from finding out that they are to be immortal, from birth.
  
  But, everything going on around us is killing society. Literally destroying the human race. And, I want to get to the bottom of it.
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is utterly without any historical basis. Jesus was an observant, Rabbinic Jew.
  
  A possible reasoning for religion other than greed and such is that there is some honest truth to it.
  
  You'd have to prove that all religion is a hoax, furthermore one motivated by ill or selfish intentions, and that's a much more difficult thing to prove than God's existence. Furthermore, if you're wrong, you stand guilty of making false accusations and casting unwarranted aspersions on whole groups constituted of millions of people. I hope you don't want that on your conscience.
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dondata11posted 15 years ago
Just Like the Bible indicate, we all know the devil is lucifer one of heaven good friend that got greedy and knew alot of heavens powers and was kicked out the heaven. who now live and own the earth and god and jesus christ still in heaven. Like Michael1mars says they go hand to hand if you belive in god you have to belive of that slimmy devil.
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drej2522posted 15 years ago
What happened to believing in more than one God? I think that's much more plausible! One being, one creator...THAT seems a little much to me.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Humans are a long way off being fully conscious, with many barely aware of what goes on in the world outside their own little pond.
In the future I believe that in a world without religion physical and mental pain will be unnecessary, and we will die when we are ready to, and not before. Mankind has been lucky with mortality so far as species, but we are on shaky ground most of the time.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey I open a forum about what religion is hiding from people?
  
  seriously.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OK Cagsil, seriously. Religion isn't hiding anything. It does not know anything that was not already known. seriously
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Really, can you honestly say that?
  
  You already know it perpetuates a "god" figure.
  
  Why can't they be hiding something else?
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  Valerie Fposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe real religion hides anything. The Catholic Church, for instance, does not define a Mystery as a riddle, but as a truth revealed- not really a mystery at all as we currently use that word.
  
  I tend to shy away from esoteric groups mainly because if their religion is so great, they should, like Christianity, not hesitate to share it with everyone- and should keep nothing secret.
  
  I do believe that to accuse all religion of "hiding something" smacks a little bit of paranoid conspiracy theory.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And you are welcome to your opinion, just like everyone else.
  
  Thank you for your input.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well because I believe religion is transparent without meaning to be. I see no evidence of a towering intellect in any of the religious teachings, just a lot of the usual low brow stuff.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, thank you for your input.
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
What lengths do you think they would go to - to prevent mankind from finding that they are suppose to be immortal, but have to die instead?

Would you feel differently if you found out your were not suppose to actually die?
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Shealy Healyposted 15 years ago
So many of us took the time to answer this question. Some of us showed our inner selves as beautiful while others showed just how close we can be to a self centered and rude energy. So it seems the real answers are between the lines. You might not know if you are the devil or maybe have a bit of who we belive him to be inside of you. But, those of us who are reading you can see.

Thank you to all of you who are so alive and awake to think and take time to share,

Shealy
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Denno66posted 15 years ago
Your doing a lot of inputting, Cagsil ;p
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
Again, knowledge can only be obtained by asking questions and questioning things that are unknown.

Wouldn't you agree?
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm, you address the obvious; what would lead you to believe that I would not?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nothing leads me to believe you would do anything. Because what you believe or do is for you, not me.
  
  But, you are questioning my method for gaining knowledge and I'm only explaining the best I can.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well,that is how knowledge is gained, is it not? I'm merely paraphrasing you, here.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but what "knowledge" or information obtained can or cannot be in proper 'form' context.
  
  If it is out of context, then how can you have truth?
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, not to get all Zen on you here, but with six billion people on this rock, even the truth can be subjective.
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Revive@OwnRiskposted 15 years ago
I don't know what I believe, spiritually, because there are more questions than answers.

However, on a lighter note, I think I lived with the devil more than once. I don't plan on making that mistake again any time soon.
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Shealy Healyposted 15 years ago
Reminder-if we have a verbal fight here we just might be providing the answer we are seeking.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  On the contrary, this is merely a discussion over variations on a theme. My goal is not that of antagonism at all, really. I don't sense a tone of antagonism from Cagsil either.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mine is not a fight either. I am seeking information, which is knowledge.
  
  When I find the knowledge I seek, then I will begin to sort thru the details for complete understanding.
  
  And, as Denno said- this is a conversation on variations of what people individually believe.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Here, here. Well-put.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you denno
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Shealy Healyposted 15 years ago
Conversation is good. And, disagreement leads to awakening. On occasion in the hubs-I have learned more from the tone and way folks have answered each other than from their words. For you I am grateful-just imagine a world without people who have the ability and energy to look closely at ideas . A prediction-there will be those who don't respect that....

But, I am celebrating in the realization that individuals willing to explore still exist in this world.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm, my comments probably did sound a bit harsh coming from this side, but actually, you are quite correct.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Denno,
  
  Truth is proven fact. I realize each person has their own interpretation of what is considered fact? But, when knowledge is learned, enforced by rationale and honesty, truth become obvious and understanding.
  
  Reality exists. It is free from individual will, wishes, desires or thought. This is an absolute according to science and philosophy via "Aristotle" teachings.
  
  Plato is differently interpreted, because he himself was not a conscious individual, so his 'way' of thinking was led by mysticism. Which has been debunked as an illusion. Therefore, not making Plato's work real.
  
  Yet, much of what mankind is derived by him, moreso than Aristotle.
  
  I don't mean use to philosophy to explain, but mankind continues to negate science, like it is not truth, when the reality is that it is the only thing that proves reality.
  
  All else leads by interpretation. Science has theories tested and proven, to become reality. And, for those who want to jump on "EVOLUTION" is only a theory? Don't. I'm not biting.
  
  I hope I didn't confuse you or make things worse.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not at all, friend. Be careful about absolute affirmation of Truth. Your truth works for you, it does not for me. Does that make it any less relevent? My world view has no standing with you. Great. That is your free will being exercised. Bravo.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My truth might not be your truth? Because, that depends on one's view, learned knowledge and their understanding of that learned knowledge(wisdom).
  
  With that said?- Let me ask you something-
  
  Do you think that mankind's existence is 'bad' or 'good'?
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're asking me to sum up the entire Human Species? It is what each member makes it.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not to be rude, - yes you are correct, there are going to be people who are going to be disrespectful to others, because of whatever reasons.
  
  Maybe they feel threatened? Maybe they fear the unknown?
  
  I fear nothing, including death.
  
  Fear is a irrational emotion caused by a reactionary response.
  
  I'm only interested in thing that can be proven. If someone wants to challenge facts- they have no standing.
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SoftCornHippoposted 15 years ago
What is so attractive about the devil? I don't know, but the devil, he/she is very allurin' honey! And its so hard bein' good alla time, ya know? So now and then, what fun to just let it all hang out, relax, and let the devil entertain you! Well -I say this now, but whenever I've had to pull myself outa that ol devil trap it took way more energy than bein' GOOD ever did! So remember this next time the devil makes you an inneresin proposition! How much energy you wanta give up to bein' BAD just to give the devil "his due"?
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
Yes, I am asking you generalize an answer.

Is mankind originally 'bad' to start?

Or, Is mankind originally 'good' to start?

I know, it is a strange question to ask, but since we need to start somewhere, your view matters.

It important for understanding.
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  shazwellynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you believe in the soul, this is essentially good. Is it not the soul that is the start?
  
  p.s. hi babes!
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The soul is a man-made word.
  
  Can your provide proof a soul actually exists within a person?
  
  No, you cannot. You have to take it on faith? That what you been told is factual.
  
  The soul is defined by anothers, through actions of an individual. What leads one person to do something bad is thought, which leads to actions.
  
  Those actions are defined by man, as whether or not, they are a good or bad person. Hence, you defines one person's soul.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not to be evasive, but the question you ask is not a simple one, but I'll try:
  Each person is born an empty slate; every action or person that is encountered shapes that slate. Nature verses nurture aside, every person responds differently to said stimuli. I knew some 'good Christians' that were lying, cheating, back-stabbing people, and I've known so-called Dregs who perform wonderful acts of kindness. Bottom line, who is to really say what Humanity is to start? Hey, Shaz
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, when a child is born?
  
  It is good?
  
  Or bad?
  
  I'm going on the understanding that each child is good, afterwhich is formed by what it consciously learns and understands.
  
  You say an empty slate? But that empty slate can be defined as good or bad, even though no action has been taken by the child.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Um, no. I believe the term empty slate speaks for itself, but please continue.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, let me put it this way.
  
  When a woman gets pregnant- she herself sees it as a good thing. Depending how the child was conceived. This changes with each individual person.
  
  Now- for this instant- you say a child is an 'empty' slate. Moral inevitability is unknown, but as the mother is concerned, when the child is born- it is considered a good thing.
  
  I've never met any woman who would say different, at the time of the child's birth. The child is considered a 'blessing?".
  
  That means the child is based in goodness or is good.
  
  So, that is what lead me to understand that a child starts out as good and not bad.
  
  Would you agree?
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But, does the child believe he or she is good? Not a mocking question, but that is a judgement based on outside prejudices.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Children, especially a baby doesn't understand or realize it's own existence. It's body and mind are under-developed to for it to realize that it is alive and well.
  
  A child's mind can not control the child's actions. The child doesn't know right from wrong or good from bad. Until it is taught.
  
  Thus, consciousness is obtained automatically, because YOU know it is alive, but it cannot tell the difference or understand that there is a difference.
  
  Thus, Nature guides the child's life, until it learns.
  
  Nature tells the child's mind that they are hungry or when it wants something to drink. True conscious effort doesn't exist until the child becomes older.
  
  Therefore, even though a mother considers a child good, even with outside prejudices- it's actions are still good. Nature is considered good, because of everything it provides for the human race.
  
  Nature is never considered evil or bad. Some parts of Nature can be destructive, but is never bad(evil).
  
  So, again that leads to a child being good.
  
  As the child grows, they have and recognize their own name. The second a child responds to his/her name. That makes them consciously aware of their own existence. The level of consciousness is still limited because they still have yet to learn anything else.
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  shazwellynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Babies develope via schemas (Piaget). These are base instinctual desires that start from the mouth reflex... the nerve that urges to draw close to the breast to suckle. it follows through in learning that there is more to the enviroment through the initial desire to suckle. It depends on whether the experience turns out to be a good experience or bad one, to how it shapes the baby.. it follows through to other experineces.. pain, pleasure etc.. does that make sense?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But, again...the urge it receives is not based on it's own mind, because it's mind is under-developed. It's based on nature(instinctive/reactionary). The nature of man, which is to eat, sleep, relieve oneself of waste and consciousness(thinking for oneself). The guidance, per se, initially is by nature until the child develops it's own clear thought pattern and it's own ability to determine what each individual thought is, because even though it has a thought, it doesn't understand it.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Certainly.
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Denno66posted 15 years ago
Well, Cagsil, I wouldn't go equating a lack of understanding with a lack of consciousness. But, I follow you thus far. Your clarity is impressive.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, honestly, there are different levels of consciousness. You break through each level according to knowledge and understanding of life.
  
  So, you would have to equate consciousness with understanding.
  
  Because knowledge is no good without understanding of that knowledge.
  
  Again, that would make consciousness tied to understanding.
  
  Thank you for your compliment.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm, well that is your take on it, Again: not mine, but, anyhow you are proceeding on a remarkably linear path.
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
Then please tell me...yours?
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
And you really want to laugh? The comment you just left about the linear path? I wouldn't know what that is.

Unless, you're talking about how well everything connects?

I don't claim to know everything, but as you've seen, my clarity is more than most. And, that is because of my rational approach about life and it's overall meaning. Which, is a concept many can not conceive or realize.

Most people are simply tied into their own daily routine and the 'way' many were raised- doesn't provide them any room to give life a clear thought.

I've done my best to clarify "life" in general dynamics, so it can be explained on a rational level, so other people can understand/comprehend.
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Denno66posted 15 years ago
Simple. There is no good or bad people; just good decisions with consequences and bad with bad outcomes, or actually quite the opposite; confusing? You bet. That's why I don't even try to contain this weird thing we call life into any specific box. I'm actually not trying to override your truth with mine, that is, I believe, an abuse of free will. But, I also don't have any clear cut definition of my world view either. Sorry to disappoint.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good conversation is never disappointing. So, you haven't disappointed me.
  
  I can see your understanding and how you reach what you believe to be true. It is not my place to try to change you or what you've learned- it is my place to understand people. It is my purpose for which I gave myself- after I became of a non-believer of religion. I coincides with me being 41 years old, with 30 years of religious background, a high-school education and an additional 11 years of studying 'religion' from outside-the-box, per se.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm so glad you find these conversations as exhilarating as I. You are close to my age and coming from my home town, we may have even gone to the same high school. Your thought process is intruiging, to say the least.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you again.
  
  Just curious, where did you go to high-school?
  
  I went to Commerce on state st. in springfield.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I went CCHS in Aldenville, but then again, you know where it is.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I was born and raised in Springfield. I moved to Chicopee when I was 22.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Funny, I lived in Spfld. for ten years after leaving Chicopee.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  I use to have conversations like the one you and I just had, with grown adults, almost all of my life, just so I could grasp Life.
  
  As I got older, with even doing my mom's bidding(catholic classes, communion and confirmation), I always was told that I am TOO wise for someone my age. I've been hearing that for about almost 30 years now.
  
  I've had relationships with some older women, because of it and been hated by some men because they couldn't understand what I said, therefore their first instinct was to harm me.
  
  So, fear isn't a problem and since I do not fear death, it has given me a clarity, which you've now seen.
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are a breath of fresh air in the rarity of your life view. I am not in the least religious, but your approach is even more scientific than mine. I do hope this conversation can continue on into the future.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am currently opening forum, under religion and beliefs - it is called "Enter at your own risk?"
  
  It's open.
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tantrumposted 15 years ago
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  Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nice ;p
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
http://hubpages.com/forum/category/5073
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good luck !
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You know you can join Us?
  
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Shealy Healyposted 15 years ago
Interesting school-of-thought I have noticed. Conversations within the topic-Is God an Energy? seem to lead away from the idea that a human growing in consciousness lead to more spirituality with that human being. But, here in the "Do you believe in the devil? topic individuals seem to believe those who are not growing in consciousness may be closer to evil.
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blondepoetposted 15 years ago
Ohhhh that the fates should throw up this cruel barrier,
Just when I shouldst choose to marry ya....
(Oh heck wrong forum )
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
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  logic,commonsenseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are never in the wrong place BP! You brighten any place you go!
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  blondepoetposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Awww Logic and you sure do brighten my face with a smile longer than the Amazon River....sighhhhhhh xo
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  Beth100posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  BP!!! YOU'RE BACK!!!! Missed ya! (ok, wrong thread, but who cares?) xoxo
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  blondepoetposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OHHHHHHHHHH BETHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH missed you too, boy oh boy, what's been cracking the bacon??? xoxox
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LEWJposted 15 years ago
Do You Believe In The Devil? No, but I believe in Satan.
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topshelfposted 15 years ago
yea. Look at our world now!!!!
It's not what it use to be. The devil know he's running out of time, so he's getting as many followers as possible, so they too will be doomed.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The doomed being those who don't believe what you do!
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  topshelfposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you can say that/
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Megalomania.
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  Carmen Borthwickposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence. An obsession with grandiose or extravagant things or actions.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Carmen, that about does it, yep!
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  Carmen Borthwickposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Devil my a**, the only demon is the one created in your mind by not believing in your own strength. If you let the thought be omni present it will control your life.
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  onenhmposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  IT's only Fools who do not believe!
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Shealy Healyposted 15 years ago
If the devil can be a psychopathological condition - can the god be that too?
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely! Have a quick flick through the OT!
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Denno66posted 15 years ago
Positive energy, negative energy. That makes sense.
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logic,commonsenseposted 15 years ago
No,I don't believe in Obama!
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
BP you lovable poet! You here again to stir up trouble??
I love that about you!!
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  blondepoetposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO Earnest stir up trouble hahahah. You mean MUAHHHHh...ohhhh Im just a rhinestone cowgirl.....LMAO.....trouble you say....oooo you all love it......I just go with the flow. Toot toot!!!!
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A girl as hot as you IS trouble!
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twalker74posted 15 years ago
No devil? You mean I have to take responsiblity for my own action!?! Crap!
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  onenhmposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It is our behavior that allows the Devil or gives the Devil to permission to operate in our lives. This includes not having faith in God and what He did. Disobeying Gods Word. ETC Than there is evil that people do that is beyond our control. In that Case yea the devil did it.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
Good morning Deb

Or should it be Dev?
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  blondepoetposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Call me anything you want but don't be late for dinner....lololo.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'll do my best
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  blondepoetposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO and please no flowers a half kilo of king prawns will delight me much more
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AEvansposted 15 years ago
Real well if you believe.
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  blondepoetposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  AEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE WOOT MISSED YOU THIS MUCH _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________XOX
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  AEvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I missed you too!!!!! ((( Big Hugs)))
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  blondepoetposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  AE PLEASEEEEE can you also email me a link to your virtual tree site so I can come back there I havent been able to find it.xo
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Laura_101posted 15 years ago
The Devil, is a concept. A representation of pure evil. An excuse for the immorality of a human's soul. Some may say a scapegoat.

In doctrine, he is made to be the perfect angel; obviously God thought will power was part of perfection and the freedom of choice, but the angel would sin and not repent. Hence, he was kicked out to roam earth. From what we learn about angels, they are supposedly perfect beings, comparable to none but God himself. It seems strange that this would happen to the most perfect of angels. He is said to eventually leave the spirit world and reform as 'The Beast' where he will take advantage of the human race and order them to worship him as a god. Well history can tell we've had plenty few of those: from Nero to Henry V111, if I'm not mistaken.

I see the devil as a representation of evil and all the contents of Pandora's box that is injected into the human self. The foil of God, God is not so much a being but more an energy, a force, a will of man to be his best in order for him to connect and repeat nature: a force that itself is perfection. The mere thought of such a being instills in the whle race an immediate stance on what they consider as 'god' even if negative, the opinion and thought is still there. To not know of God is even to know God, for how ever long, the sun or anything that itself is a power has been associated and worshipped as a 'power'.

So the Devil, as much as I was brought up on Catholic doctrine, is a representation, a story and an explanation. He helps form the idea of what a sin is, he strikes the balance of nature and he sets in stone a distinction between what good and evil is.
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Jean N Deanposted 15 years ago
No I don't believe in the devil. Don't believe in God either.
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  onenhmposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats Sad. Because the God you don't believe in has so much for you and desires to bless you. But he will not force himself on you. You are missing out on many wonderful things. The Saddest part is that there will come a day when you won't have to believe because he will reveal himself to you and he will be as real as the chair you are sitting in. Then you will regret how you wasted your life on things that were not important or real. But you will still have to bow your knee before him and then he won't be able to save you. You will reap the consequences of your decision.
  
  I pray you will bow your knee before that happens and you will see the goodness of the Lord.
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  topshelfposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Amen to that.
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Stevennix2001posted 15 years ago
well if you believe in god, then you certainly have to believe in satan too as its part of the religion. however, if your an atheist or worship some other religion, then i guess your answer is no. its really up to the individual. i believe there is a satan and a god, but thats just me.
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Shealy Healyposted 15 years ago
If you have posted here - you might want to post/read on the topic-Is God An Energy? I am deep in study of the human desire to know of both powers of good and evil. There are dramatic differences in our human ability to recognize these powers. Take a look if you find concepts of metaphysics interesting.
Is God An Energy?
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
Satan is a conspiracy!
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
Anyone that believes in satan does not use logical thought. Satan can on be believed through faith.
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Valerie Fposted 15 years ago
Anyone who relies on blanket generalizations and unsubstantiated statements that something is a conspiracy cannot be said to be entirely logical.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I back all of my beliefs with logic. I don't use faith to fill in the blanks of a silly belief book.
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So Im curious, what is your logic as to how we are here?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There are a lot of questions as to how/why we are here. The bible answers none of them without faith or interpretation.
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  which for marine, makes the bible really confusing as he does not understand what words mean.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As you don't understand what psychology or self awareness mean.
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prettydarkhorseposted 15 years ago
NO
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes!
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Shealy Healyposted 15 years ago
Two root words of the word satan are enemy and diabolical. I did a little checking-the term satan or devil is not used often in the bible.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No its not and its usually referred to as a position, not a name, the adversary or accuser. Every devil in the OT was acting under God's supervision, interesting.
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Stevennix2001posted 15 years ago
i think satan does exist but not in the form that we think he does. personally, like god, i think satan is more of entity that has the power to influence peoples hearts and souls throughout history. however, his influence is solely on the will power of the person. if your weak minded person easily deceptible to reality, then he can easily make anyone turn to do vicious and unjust acts whether the person is aware of it or not.
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Everybody has the image of satan as being this scary looking guy all red with horns and a pitch fork, but in all truth Satan was the most beautiful angel God had and he knew it too. He is very real and he is down here on this earth with us with a third of Gods angels reaping havok on all people.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why did God create satan?
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  chambersgirl21posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There are two great angels that stand on either side of God and Satan was one of them, he was one of the two leaders among the angels. God made him sinless and perfect. Satan made a devil of himself. God new that Satan would rebel against him but had he not decided to create Satan he would have repudiated the principal of free choice, which is the cornerstone in Gods government.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i understand that part, but your missing my point. i just think satan isn't in the traditional human form that people tend to think he is when they have him portrayed in literature or movies. i think he's an entity, an invisible spirit walking among us influencing people to do evil things. he influences religious leaders to use religion for justify prejudice. he influences the minds of world leaders that cause great catastrophic wars like ww2 and such. thats all i was trying to say.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not buying it.
  
  Does this look logical to you?
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  well as i said in another religious forum, people tend to believe what they want.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Or what they are taught.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i take it your an atheist right? if so, i find it ironic that the stereo type about christians like myself are allegedly accused of trying to convert atheists such as yourself. while atheists are supposed to be humble and use logic. however, from your little comment, it seems like your the one thats trying to convert me to your ways even though all i said was "people believe what they want anyway."
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you asking or assuming? Looks like assumptions to me even though you added the "?" for the disclaimer. . Now, you assume I am trying to convert you to a belief that I do not have. See how your little christian mind loses control? Weak!
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  obviously, you didn't read my post as you claim you did because if you did, then you would've noticed the key words, "IF SO." Hence meaning, that IF THAT WAS YOUR INTENTION, THEN IT GOES ON TO ELABORATE MY THOUGHTS ON THAT. however, if im wrong,then that statement is irrelevant then as it does not apply. PLEASE READ EVERY WORD OF A POST BEFORE YOU RESPOND TO IT. thanks.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Does caps mean you are angry? Don't get mad you angry little christian. You assumed I am/was an atheist. Just because you didn't write it doesn't mean you didn't think it. Silly little christian.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  actually when i use caps, its usually to emphasize a point. not necessarily to yell. if i was yelling and getting angry, i would curse alot. trust me i curse alot when im angry and use various insults. therefore, if i haven't called you a b**** or said your stupid, then it means im not angry.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Does the bible teach you to cuss, yell, and insult people in your little christian emotional temper tantrums? I'm not surprised. Afterall, bible god couldn't control his emotions either.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  sighs* whatever. do you always have fun laughing at other's expense?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No. I would rather people use their individual minds rather than a robotic book of belief.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  so is that why you were making fun of me just now?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Because you were thinking assumptions of me.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  okay, well i apologize if what i said sounded like an assumption of you, as that was not my intention at all. therefore, why don't we just forget it then, and agree to disagree, is that alright by you?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes! You and I are free to believe what we wish. I believe the bible is a conspiracy!
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  okay, now that we're friends now, why don't we discuss this religious philosophical debate over a nice couple glasses of beer. what do you say?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Works for me.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol. i knew we could agree on something besides agreeing to disagree. lol. anyway, why do you believe the bible is a conspiracy?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think it was put together simply to govern and control people through belief. I think it uses simple psychology as any other government uses for control. It is impossible to control a group of individuals. Not so hard to control followers.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  hmmm..well you might be right about some religious leaders, but that doesn't necessarily reflect upon religion as a whole. you see i believe that alot of people tend to misinterpret god and jesus teachings for their own gain and its proof with this current war in iraq. the bible clearly states, "thou shalt not kill" as one of the commandments, yet people use the bible as a excuse to justify their wicked intentions while ignoring its teachings. such cases can be proven throughout history like the pilgrims killing native americans when they refused to be converted or bush's excuse to go to war in iraq. however, if they had followed the bible as well as they claim they did, then none of astrocities would've happened. therefore, i don't think the bible is a conspiracy, i just think too many people use and misinterpret the bible for their own selfish acts.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The bible saying "thou shalt not kill" is a contradiction. The bible god constantly kills his own creation in the bible.
  
  Knowing not to kill is a moral thought without needing a bible. Killing is a contradiction to life.
  
  If everyone believed the bible, no individual mind would exist.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i don't know if i agree with that. i mean if that were true, then all christians would be nothing more than mindless drones, and i don't think im one. i always considered myself to quite intelligent. lol
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Alright, I will try to write it another way. lol
  
  If we all had the same belief, there would be no individual belief. So, you could say there would be no individual mind if there was no individual belief. The bible teaches 1 belief. It doesn't teach how to form individual beliefs. Individual belief is a sin in the bible.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and how did you arrive at that conclusion?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Logic.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  uh huh. well to quote a phrase from sean connory, "a man who believes in nothing, is nothing." take that phrase for however you like.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What does that have to do with anything?
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  just quoting a phrase from a movie that seemed appropriate thats all. lol. sorry, i couldn't resist.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you still on beer 1 or 4? lol
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  beer? im drinking hard liquor buddy now. lol how about you?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Still on 1. lol
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  bah! light weight. lol
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bad economy. It's cheaper that way. lol
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
How about we start by killing all the good looking people then?
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  Scott.Lifeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now lets not doing anything drastic
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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aguasilverposted 15 years ago
Suggestion to all believers posting here;

Just ignore these fools whose only participation is to pour scorn and ridicule on Christ and God.

Ignore them.

They reject Christ, they don't want ANYONE telling THEM what to do, they believe in annihilation when you die, I say, so be it, let them have their isolation from Christianity, we can continue to discuss our faith, they can do as they will, but as for me and my house, we will ignore their inane and contemptuous comments and asinine remarks.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ignorance. Nice incorrect generalization. Everyone that doesn't believe the bible believes the same unbeliefs right? Blame it on the devil.
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
don't encourage him. we have had to suffer 30 threads and countless "troll" attacks about the same rubbish for longer than anyone would like to count.

just say he is right and move on.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  who are you talking about? me or him?
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Him.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  oh okay. for a min, i was affraid you were talking about me. lol
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, you are worth warning. In my drinking days I might have tried to take a "shot" every time this ignorant individual said the word individual, but that would be the most brutal drinking game an individual could ever imagine.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Who has said "individual" more, me or you? Go count. Did they teach you to count in college? They obviously didn't teach you to count in the bible unless you consider the countless pages of temple construction.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  now now, there is no need for mudslinging. besides, i thought you were a man of logic marinealways24
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am to the logical. He isn't logical. He tries to destroy any individual idea to protect his blind faith. He refuses to think.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  uh huh, can i ask you something then. do you believe in darwins theory and/or science?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now you are fishing. You think I am stupid? No I don't completely believe evolution. I partially believe it. Nothing is answered by science or the bible.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  dude, im merely asking you a question. i never said you were, i was asking because if you did, then i was going to say a few philosophical arguements to add to this friendly debate. do you take everything out of context and think it be an insult.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Was you going to add that it's not proven that we came from chimps? Or the fact that we are of the few to walk on 2 legs. Or the fact that no other animal matches our dna?
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  look, im not trying to insult you my dear chum. just merely having a friendly debate.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Was I wrong?
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  only if you think my intention was to insult you. when all i was doing was asking you a question that would've lead me to giving you a well thought out opinion to discuss with you. however, since i see obviously anyone who even tries to challenge your ideas through friendly discussion is considered an insult, i'll just leave you alone then. oh and you owe me for the beer i bought you. lol
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not on that. On the things I listed in the unprovens of evolution. Was I wrong that you wasn't going to list any of those?
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  oh that, yeah i was. i was even going to mention something that is proven is how astronomers predicted the formation of the earth. lol. would you like to hear my thoughts?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  first of all, i think the main problem is people tend to take the bible in literal terms when it talks about creation and such. sure it says it took 8 days to create the earth, in the bible, versus astronomers prediction of millions to possibly billions of years. however, who's to say that in god's world or time or whatever you want to call it, time passes by faster. hence a day to him, might seem like over a billion years to us. therefore, the bible wouldn't be a contradiction to science. as for evolution itself, i don't necessarily see it as a definitive proof god doesn't exist. i think its more of an explanation of how god created us. a blue print if you will.
  
  think about it. if your an all powerful omnipotent being then you could create the world and humans however you wanted, so who's to say god didn't use evolution as his base. i mean think about it, in the bible, adam and eve came from the jungle. in evolution theories, mankind evolved from the jungle, so why can't both stories be one in the same? i think they are.
  
  then you'll object and say, then what about the missing link? well what about it? i have several theories on that to be honest.
  
  first theory: we haven't found it yet. mankind is still discovering new types of animals and dinosaurs that once existed every year, so its possible we may end up finding if we keep excavating.
  
  second theory: god is not going to allow us to find it because he knows that too many atheists or non believers will try to use it as definitive proof god is a lie, instead of seeing it as part of a blue print that he used to create us. therefore, we're not ready for it.
  
  third theory: the catholic church is covering it up as they're affraid people will misinterpret it, and it would cause too much controversy as our society wouldn't be able to handle it. probaby the most realistic of the three theories too.
  
  however, thats all i was going to say.
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now I respect an "individual" who has a "theory" like this. It is not what I believe, but I can see some good points and some deep thought process. Can't say its wrong or right either. But the point is Marine, there is some substinance. I have asked for your theory a thousand times, and I get nothing- but in this thread you want us to name your new beleif. You have an idea, not a theory or a belief. And yes, you are very clever for being the "first" person to ever come up with your idea, but there is good reason for that. 1. people have historical knowledge of the time frame you speak of so it doesn't make sense to them. 2. people know that a "Government" is not the same as the bible, and the two cannot be called the same. 3. Group belief is just that.... group belief, guess where we get churches from. 4. we own dictionaries.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you still writing?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you do or don't believe evolution?
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i do believe in evolution as i strongly believe it is an explanation of how god created us.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think adam and eve contradict evolution.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you didn't read anything that i typed huh?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but it's not logical. It is faith based theories. Faith contradicts logic. You suggest that a divine creator is hiding fossils from us so we can't prove evolution yet. Is this logical to you?
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i said that as one of 3 theories of why we haven't found the missing link yet. however, i do believe evolution is a blueprint for creation.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That goes against the bible. The bible says "poof" were created hand by hand. Evolution says we and other animals evolved into what we are today. Do you know what you believe? lol
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and whos to say god didn't have us evolve from animals? did you not read what i said? if your an omnipotent being then you can create the world however you want. so who's to say that my theory is wrong?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats not what the bible says. You are the one that believes it, not me. We obviously evolved from animals, we are animals. lol
  
  Adam and eve is a contradiction to evolution. I can't simplify this anymore.
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  again, you cannot read. His theory is simmilar to many Christians that cannot explain dino's. They believe that God created and He also created things to evolve so that His continuous hand was not required. Its not that hard to understand. I don't believe it- but it has its points.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Was you a male cheerleader in college?
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Man, that is soooooo deeeeep bro(insert surfer accent)
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  sooner than laterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How can you not see that I am making fun of you. can't fix stupid.
  
  more circus banter coming up........
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  thanks for the heads up.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Who am I attacking? Protect the faith college man!
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
History has already recorded the time when Jesus Christ lived and the actions of the religious/spiritual leaders, aka "god-kings" or "mystics" or "oracles".

We already know their direct actions to encompass the masses for enslavement. We know WHY they did it.

But, there are people who refuse to believe history has happened, as claimed. Those who refuse to understand or belief our own history flock to religion.

What is surprising is that they are not actually listening to their own interpretations? Yes, Jesus Christ was a real man and what he said is somewhat true. But, to think you have all the real facts is what's missing. Scriptures from religion are missing truth, because a 'leap of faith' requirement tells you to understand something not real.

Plain and simple- history has shown what religion is - a hoax. But, there are others who refuse to understand that, because they really don't understand their own life or why they live.
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
one individual might think another individual doesn't have and individual mind, but individually speaking I can say that most individuals are not able to think individually.

yawn.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have no self awareness, much less individual belief or thought. Keep reading.
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
"do you take everything out of context and think it be an insult."

uh huh to both.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How many years of college? How old are you?
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
marine- "Was you going"

me- were you going.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
@Stevennix how about another theory. The sons on God cross breaded with the daughters of man and locked that DMN down.
and on the first day God did ... and a couple million years later when it was time the second say God did .... and a few million years, the third God did ...
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  your mocking me aren't you?
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not at all. I do not live by the rule that it has got to be either or, concerning anything.
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sooner than laterposted 15 years ago
marine- "So you do or don't believe evolution?"

point #5 you can't read.
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  sadly, i agree with you.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can't read?
  
  "in evolution theories, mankind evolved from the jungle, so why can't both stories be one in the same? i think they are."
  
  You said "think". You didn't say you believed. Can you not read your own writing?
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  Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  well like i said earlier, we both just have to agree to disagree then.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So, I can't read?
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