Is sacrificial death a thing the biblical God chose to require or is it innate t

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   cam8510posted 12 years ago

   Is sacrificial death a thing the biblical God chose to require or is it innate to His Character?
   
   This question has to do with the sacrificial death for fogiveness of sins. Hebrew writings require animal sacrifices while Christian Scriptures require human sacrifice.  I have pondered this question.  If it was God's CHOICE, why did He choose that and not something else?  Why require physical death and eternal damnation if something else would suffice?  If it His CHARACTER, then God did not have a choice, which seems to be another conundrum. 
   
   When you answer, please indicate which (if either) is your belief and why you believe it. 
   
   Thanks for taking time to give your valuable input.

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   JThomp42posted 12 years ago

   Animal sacrifice is of the old law (Old Testament). Basically for the Jewish.
   
   For God so loved the world,that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
   
   God knew the old testament was too hard to live by so he sent a FINAL sacrifice, The only sacrifice which would be SUFFICIENT enough to bear ALL of the world's sin. Blood is the only atonement for sin. But, In order to be in eternal paradise, You must accept that Jesus Christ has done this for the world. Christian writings do not require human sacrifices. Only one to save the world. The only one who could save the world, Jesus Christ. As far as eternal damnation? Everyone has a choice. God given life is not a privilege, It is a gift from God Almighty. He has created the world. He makes things the way they are to be.

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      cam8510posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you JThomp42, I appreciate your thoughts.  Do me a favor and re-read my question.  I'd like some input on that too.

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      JThomp42posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You are welcome Cam. I did read your question. This is my beliefs. It's all in the bible.

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      cam8510posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I understand that this is what you believe and I am not contesting that at all.  My question is NOT about  what sacrifice is and does.  What I am asking is WHY God chose sacrifice over some other method of providing forgiveness.

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   xanzacowposted 12 years ago

   God had a choice. He knows humans better than anyone/anything else and knows our weaknesses. To offer sacrifice was to show faith in him as in the case of Abraham and Isaac. He did not require the actual sacrifice of Isaac, He only required the faith that Abraham apparently showed by the willingness to follow His command. BTW physical death does not mean eternal damnation. The wage sin pays is death. Not eternal damnation. Jesus himself died, but not to face eternal damnation.

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      JThomp42posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I totally agree.

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   tlmcgaa70posted 12 years ago

   Why require physical death and eternal damnation if something else would suffice?
   
   in a sense your question is your answer.
   
   HE wanted us to be free to choose to accept or reject HIM. how can we have that choice unless there is something to choose from, and that can only be the exact opposite of HIM. HE is pure good there fore there had to be pure evil. GOD chose out for HIM a people, the Hebrews, to show mankind HIS existence and HIS power and glory.  HE had to teach them to obey HIM. HE set out laws for them and taught them to worship HIM. HE taught them to fear HIM and that HE alone of all the gods was to be their GOD. there had to be a system by which they could comprehend...punishment and forgiveness. death was punishment. shedding of blood was forgiveness. when CHRIST came to fulfill the prophecies and make the new covenant HIS blood was the final sacrifice...HIS blood was the only blood shed that was of human/divine origin and also innocent. HE had never committed a sin. HIS was the only blood acceptable to GOD. in all the sacrifices of all the animals they had to be unblemished, perfect. CHRIST was perfect. GOD never required nor sought any human sacrifice and in fact hated and forbid human sacrifice. CHRIST was not a true human sacrifice in that HE was also divine in nature. HE suffered physical agony but worse than that was the separation from GOD when HE took the sin of the world upon HIM. that was HIS true sacrifice. but HE and GOD were both of one accord to do this thing.

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      JThomp42posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Amen tlmcgaa70.

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   Mr Love Doctorposted 12 years ago

   Hebrews 9:22 says that "without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin."  This passage is not speaking of the Law of Moses, it is speaking of the Primordial Law, the law that predates everything, even creation itself.   This is the law of existence that just is.  God cannot forgive without the shedding of blood.  It's not that He can choose one way or the other.
   
   There's actually a good explanation of the law of blood and sacrifice in C.S. Lewis' Narnia Chronicles.  In The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, the lion Aslan, who represents Christ, sacrifices himself for Edmund, who represents humanity. In so doing, he defeats the schemes of the White Witch, who represents sin (not Satan, as many have thought).  Aslan comments after his resurrection, "Though the Witch knew the Deep Magic, there is a magic deeper still which she did not know. Her knowledge goes back only to the dawn of time. But if she could have looked a little further back, into the stillness and the darkness before Time dawned, she would have read there a different incantation. She would have known that when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backward."
   
   There is a Law that goes back from before the beginning of time, when nothing but God was.  That law has not been abrogated or repealed.  It demands death for sin.  Hence, God himself, not willing that mankind would die for sin, died himself.  This is basic Christian theology.
   
   Because of the death of Christ, the wall of separation between God and man has been broken, "making of the two, one." (Ephesians 2:15)  Death itself has been "swallowed up in victory," (Isaiah 25:8) and Christ has "taken even the very power of captivity captive, making an open show of it." (Ephesians 4:8)  As C.S. Lewis noted, death has started working backward.

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      cam8510posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I am interested in  "the law of existence that just is." and  "It's not that He can choose one way or the other."  These answers deal directly with my question.  Does this imply there is some "Eternal Concept" that determines God's actions?

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   cam8510posted 12 years ago

   So far, with just a few responses, several different sub-topics have been raised.  I want to stay on track so I will ignore the things I didn't ask about.  Two responders have actually spoken to the question.  Mr. Love Doctor says that sacrifice is the very nature of existence.  It just is.  Thank you for that answer.   xanzacow says that God chose sacrifice as the means of salvation.  Thanks for that answer as well.  I would love to hear more responses to those two points.  When God required sacrifice, did the requirement extend from who He is or did He choose sacrifice.  I recently experienced this principle firsthand.  I had to end a relationship.  I looked closely at what I was doing.  I had no choice.  What I had to do was based on who I am, on the values that are part of me.  In other circumstances I might have ended a relationship totally by choice, because I didn't like some way the other person behaved.  So I think it is a valid question to ask about God as well.

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      tlmcgaa70posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      perhaps both extends from and a requirement from.  we were created by HIM. severed from HIm thru sin. wages of sin=death.death (sacrifice) atones for sin.  atonement returns us to HIM. full circle. at least for those who accept. alwys free choice.

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      cam8510posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you timcgaa70, your comment still focuses on the purpose and result of sacrifice.  I am looking NOT for WHAT a sacrifice is and what it does, but WHY God chose sacrifice in the first place?

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      xanzacowposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Being a just and fair God, I guess you could say He kind of didn't have a choice. Adam an Eve's sin sort of forced Him to make a way for their offspring who would be born sinners to atone for their sins. He could have wiped them out and started over.

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      cam8510posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks xanzacow.  something tells me He would have been starting over and over and over.  Doesn't this mean God would be reacting to Adam's and Eve's actions.  That would be like making the plan up as He went along.  Good thinking though thanks.

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      xanzacowposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes with giving mankind free will, he would be adjusting his plan from time to time just as we as parents must do with our children. You raise an interesting question.

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      cam8510posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I like straightforward answers, which is what you have given.  I can see this issue going either way. Yours requires God to react to man, and Mr Love Doctor's has something above or prior to God, namely the "Law of Existence" which God cannot repeal.

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      tlmcgaa70posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      this should have been in the forums i cant respond as fully with what i am thinking here not enough room.

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      cam8510posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I agree timcgaa70.  Sorry for the lack of forsight on that.  I suppose it can't be reintroduced in the forums at this point?

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      tlmcgaa70posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      you can re-ask it in forums ...it would not harm anything to do so

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