I have been threatened, along with others, with eternal damnation from many believers here. They claim they are not threatening me, yet by definition, they most certainly are threatening, even though they are just repeating their beliefs based on their scriptures, or at least, that's what they would like us to believe.
I could just as easily read the words from any number of sources of hate speech and focus it on a member here, and it most likely will get me banned.
My question is this, should we report these believers to the admins of Hubpages as threats?
Would the admins take it seriously considering lesser threats and other innocuous comments have had members here banned?
I don't take threats of Hell seriously in the slightest, any more than I'd take a threat seriously that if I don't worship the Goblin Prince (Jesus) the Goblin King (God) will whisk me away to be tortured. Fictional after-life punishments don't scare me in the slightest.
Don't worry B.
I'll get you into Heaven.....
for a price
I can loan you 30 pieces.....
for a price....
Wait a minute, is this similar to the deal you're striking with Mark?
yes it is.. but I only have room for 1 to get in on my coattails... so hurry and send the $$
That is entirely your choice.
Whatever one threatens another with directly or indirectly is regulated if not by the moderators but by the natural laws that exist.
Christians or believers especially should be aware of reaping what they sow.
For every cause there is an effect whether we believe it or not.
they can't see how hateful they are. Someone on my facebook wrote put a link about end-times on their page. I made a comment about how that's just a way of drumming fear into people & even the cults do it. She replied that the only ones that fear are those on the wrong side. Then she deleted the comments before I could reply. She lives in her indoctrinated bubble. She is fearful of hell for sure.
How was her comment. "She replied that the only ones that fear are those on the wrong side." any more "hateful" than yours, "that's just a way of drumming fear into people & even the cults do it."?
I just see two different opinions.
if it's hate speech, then report it. I reported a git that wrote a hate poem about me to support their religion. Dunno if they got banned for a few days or not.
I know I wasn't over-reacting, as others commenting on how hateful this religionist was
Nah, I know it's hate speech, and I know it's very childish, immature and irresponsible for those who perpetuate those petty threats to everyone who doesn't share their beliefs.
I feel sorry for them and forgive them, for they know not what they do.
I've occassionally said: "Damn you! Go to hell!"
Consider the source, chuckle, flip 'im a bird and walk away! lol
You know the old quip: "sticks and stones may break my bones...etc..
Relax, have a warm cuppa cocoa, sit back and watch a good MMA fight (just to get loosened up) and fall asleep......zzzzzzzzzz
When ya wake up it'll be a brand new world....:
Then just keep things in proper perspective. Don't be so sensitive.
Tellin' ya to be damned and go to hell is not an "earth shaker."
What are you talking about? I never said I was sensitive, it is just a topic for discussion and it was in perspective.
lolol...look at your response to me!
My goodness! There ya go getting "sensitive" again..:
Now lets get serious. why would ya want to "report" a responder for tellin' ya: "damn you... go to hell!?"
ok, ok it was a topic for discussion.
No. I would never let any "responder" upset me to the point of reporting him just because he "damned" me and told me to go to hell.
There are reasons I would, but not for that.
Yer cocoa's getting cold Beelze, microwave time...:
Would you be in need of some kind of psychological comfort ?
Or support ?
Don't you think you should prepare your soul to its announced doom ?
Anyways, you can't controll nothing, or else you'll be controlling everything. And that is not a bargain.
So, we have religious, fascists, left wingers, fanatic believers, fanatic non believers... jokers...
That's wealth man.
Just a shoulder to cry on should be sufficient.
I have no soul, neither do you.
Well, thank you for the information.
All my life I've been doubting, but now, I'm fixed.
I have no soul.
And now there's two, needing a shoulder to cry upon...
I think that now, the most difficult part for me, is trying to convince my dog he has no soul either.
Because he believes he's got a soul.
And with that, one of the thickest subjects of conversation between us (me and my dog), just disappears...
Ain't that sad ?
I don't put too much stock in it. They are coming from a place of fear and there is no true strength in fear. If they want to think I'm going to hell then I won't stop them from believing it. I feel they can believe whatever they want to. It doesn't mean that it has any effect on the truth or my reality, so I'm not going to give any power to it by getting worked up over it.
What you resist persists. Don't resist them, don't give any thought to them and eventually they will go away.
Agreed, and well said. It would interesting to note that if this were some hundreds of years ago, Christians would have taken action with their threats by placing us on stakes and watching with glee as the flames licked higher.
Good thing they no longer have that option and their words are just empty chaff.
Of course, the fact that they no longer have that option does not mean they probably wish they did.
First it is not you your physical being that is in danger of damnation it is your spiritual being that is in danger, and it is in danger because you choose to not accept that there is a God.
Second it is not we the believers who will exact the damnation of your spirit, but the God that you refuse to acknowledge.
You have every right to believe or not believe but as a believer we have an obligation to try and change your point of view, just as you do with us.
Yes, but the threats are here on earth and are real, while spirits are not real as they violate the physical laws of universe. So, in that respect, it is a threat on my physical being because it is one physical being threatening another.
So what? You don't accept buckets of various gods that threaten our afterlife, too. Hence, your point is moot as we both don't accept those same gods.
Then, it is not your right to threaten me, is it?
I have no obligation to change your point of view. And, the fact that you believe you do have an obligation is one of the reasons your faith starts conflict and wars.
Please quote the exact threat verbatum so that it can be judged on its own merit, rather than we the readers having to accept your word for this.
Beelzedad: I just discovered this forum. I have been living in a parallel universe, trying to address the same issue as you - being threatened by someone who appears to be religious, but denies they are threatening, when I sought to question and discuss his views on right and wrong.
http://superconsciousmedia.com/2010/12/ … and-wrong/
He told me I had to forgive myself for doing that, but never explained why. Start by reading the last response from me. When he stopped replying, I commented on another page of his:
http://superconsciousmedia.com/2010/11/ … dichotomy/
Again, the last post is by me. He has fallen silent.
I haven't been here long, so maybe my opinion is out of line, but I think you have a valid point. Hate is hate and not conducive to a healthy discussion. If people can't control themselves, maybe they need to be controlled by others.
"I have been threatened, along with others, with eternal damnation from many believers here."
My best friend who died just recently from Cancer, by definition of his Christianity forever threatened me
with eternal damnation since I am not a
Christian. He was a great, guy an angel.
I didn't hold it against him and it didn't affect our friendship. I'm not a
fascist. He can have his opinion. And in any case now, where he is, he knows one way or the other.
If you feel affronted Beelzedad then report.
That said - the forum rule that's the most pertinent here is:
Making Personal Attacks: debate and disagreements on points of substance are all right, but personal attacks, petty bickering, and thread hijacking will be dealt with swiftly.
If anything comes within the above it should be dealt with - the foundation is irrelevant. Repeatedly telling someone they're going to burn in hell (however it's delivered) is unpleasant and wishing a negative on another.
I'm okay. I understand the reasons behind this issue, however our believer friends deny it and believe I would be falsely accusing them if I reported them for making such threats.
I was more curious as to the state of the threat itself, if in fact it had an validity or not as threat.
Many thanks, frogdropping!
It doesn't matter how the insult was delivered - if it's there, it's there.
It's like this (huh?!) -
'Whatever - you're a worthless piece of .... '
'Well sure go on with yourself, whatever, fine. It's hardly my problem if you behave like a worthless piece of .... You have a nice day now.'
Both of the above (imagined of course, examples and all that) mean the same.
"I was more curious as to the state of the threat itself, if in fact it had an validity or not as threat." Not valid unless actual physical harm. On another level it is conditional exploitation.
Good point. If I'm dead, then how can anyone impose physical harm on me?
I'm assuming though the reference to the threat would be towards my everlasting soul.
No More Bullying Please!
You can always ride the bus to hell with me. Is it a bus that they send now?!
It doesn't seem like your claim meets the definition of the word threat, but if it hurts your feelings that much go ahead and report it.
Definition of THREAT
: an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage
: one that threatens
: an indication of something impending <the sky held a threat of rain>
Like I said above, and I'll repeat myself for your sake, I understand why believers make these threats and then don't consider them threats.
Here are some more definitions from the dictionary:
1. A person who inspires fear or dread.
2. A warning that something unpleasant is imminent.
3. Something that is a source of danger.
4. Declaration of an intention or a determination to inflict harm on another.
These all fit the claim.
So, if you don't consider them "threats" it's a moot point, and you have wasted everyone's time.
As a stretch, number two could possibly fit in by your definitions; however, I would consider warning a positive thing.
Oh, well, if it's from THE dictionary, pardon me.
Here's a couple from the Urban Dictionary:
"1. threat 6 up, 6 down
buy threat mugs, tshirts and magnets
A system in MMORPGS which determines what character a particular mob will attack. Threat is gained during an encounter generally by attacking, healing, or taunting. For instance, threat in the MMORPG World of Warcraft is gained at a ratio of 1 damage:1 threat and 2 effective heals:1 threat before talents. Generally tanks have abilities that may have a 1 damage:5 threat ratio or greater, allowing them to keep aggro without having to be the highest dps. If enough threat is gained by a particular person, they will "pull aggro."
"This tank's is amazing, I pulled 13,337 dps and I never got above 60% threat!"
aggro tank mmo world of warcraft hate taunt tps
by URTV667 Nov 7, 2009 share this
2. threat 11 up, 29 down
buy threat mugs, tshirts and magnets
Roughly speaking, great, with connotations of being so great it's threatening. Origin in the phrase "triple threat---singing, dancing, acting."
Superlative: bomb threat
This party's threat, yo.
Take a sniff of this coke, bro; it's the bomb threat."
Yes, I understand why a believer would consider it a waste of time.
Yes, and I'm quite sure believers will continue "warning" everyone with hell and eternal damnation. Such a positive thing.
Warnings aren't usually followed by something positive unless followed.
ediggity, Agreed. It's highly recommended to take heed to a warning. God is a God of love and forgiveness, and he is just. A balanced, biblical message consists of the reality of hell, a warning to escape it, and the only way to so through the shed blood of Christ on the cross for our sins. Jesus never threatened anyone. Jesus could not be described as a compassionate Savior if he failed to warn us about hell. People inflict harm on themselves when they reject God. We either believe or don't believe.
Dear woman of courage, I'm glad you said it. Well heaven and hell are not fairy tales.they do exist and one's final destination is either heaven or hell:heaven if he believes in Jesus as his savior from sins and eternal hell if he rejects Christ as his Savior and King.This is what the Bible says.I believe Christians love those whom they are waning.If I tell a person of a danger ahead its because I love that person and Christ loves him too, that we are constrained to do so.Friends I hope that we all heed to the truth and what the Bible says , for there is not one prophecy that has been proved to be wrong.Hell is prepared for the Devil and his angels.JESUS LOVES YOU.Thanks for sharing.I admire your attempt.
Hi, olgakhumlo, Thank you. We never say the weatherman is threatening us when warned about a tornado is coming. I speak the truth with love. If I didn't have any compassion for people, I wouldn't care what happened to them. I love your response. Glad I didn't appear to be a hateful person to you. Thank you for sharing also. God bless you!
Of course not, the weatherman cannot be certain what will happen to you if you indeed decided to venture out into the tornado. You may very well do so and emerge unscathed.
However, when believers threaten others with hell, they are in fact telling that person quite emphatically what will happen to them. Big difference, and that is one of the reasons why it is a threat and not a warning.
WOC, I actually think that you've made a slight believer out of him, that he would be so bothered that he has a whole thread on it. Congratulations!
Flightkeeper, Actually I was thinking the same thing. If someone doesn't believe in God or hell, why would that person be insulted in the first place? Just mentioning the name of God seems to be a threat to many unbelievers in the forums. Thank you!
a survivor of cyclone Yasi said it was like a million women screaming in his ear - worse than hell in his opinion
at least these days people can get warnings about tornados etc these days. Not like in times gone by when they all got killed and people thought it was punishment from god
Noah continued to plead and warn people of their impending doom. They mocked and ridiculed as though Noah was crazy for building the ark. They was not laughing when they saw the flood coming, but it was too late for them to get on the ark. I have observed this same behavior of unbelievers in the forums mocking believers because of their faith. The word of God speaks of people behaving this way today. It doesn't embarass me for I know God is real and I am not ashamed of him. Love and Blessings to you.
But if the science of meteorology had been in effect at that time, no one would have laughed at Noah, because his warning would have been confirmed. Right?
Moral of the story: If we listen to every lunatic's warning of impending doom, without any scientific evidence to back it up(such as believers do)we would be too gullible to even survive.
Have you viewed the film 2012? Not at all impossible -and a very good example of both science & religions uselessness in the grand scheme of things.
Actually, if you recall, it was the scientists who began to discover the anomalies, put together the pieces based on their observations and tests, in what turned out to be a very accurate prediction of what would occur.
They then began to accumulate dollars so ships could be built in an attempt to save some of humanity.
The only real reason most of worlds population were wiped out is because scientists have yet to invent technologies that may help save many more lives if some such catastrophe occurred, and mankind was literally forced to leave the planet temporarily until things settled down again.
Since science has been so hindered by the shackles of religious rule these past many centuries, mankind remains fragile in the face of such events that could wipe us all out.
Galileo should have been the first scientist on the moon, not the first scientist to be shackled by myths and superstitions.
Such is our historic past, a cross we'll all have to bear.
That's just another lame excuse to justify one's actions. It's best to live by what is and not what if. God gives everyone a choice to believe or not believe. If we make bad choices, we can't blame God or no one but ourselves. If you were not at home and someone told you that your house is on fire, I don't think you would be offended and say the person is threatening you. I don't think you would look for confirmation of scientific evidence to back it up while your house burn down to the ground. Have a nice day getitrite.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Did you even read and comprehend my statement? because I don't see this as a logical response at all. Have a nice day. Whew!
Obviously, that isn't a threat because the person whose house is burning down isn't being threatened with a choice to make, like the impossible choice of believing in your god or going to hell.
Bad example. Try again.
Hey Beelzedad. Reading through this thread and the one about turning the wrong cheek; looks like the posters of the threads are in the minority opinion camp. Oh well. If it makes you feel any better, if I ever tell you you're going to hell, you won't have to wonder if we're in disagreement to what it means.
If we were both talking about this many centuries ago, you and your Christian clan would have me tied to a large stake and would cheer with glee as the flames licked higher.
In other words, you would be practicing what you preached by helping me in the most horrific way to get to hell that much sooner.
Please remember that this IS the organization you belong with all of it's sordid history intact.
Um, I'm pretty sure they would have burned me way before you. But I promise, this is a topic dear to me. The history of WW 2 bothers me at the deepest level, when I think about the horrors no one seemed to be willing to step up to the plate to intervene. I firmly believe in tolerance across the board, and think it is the responsibility of all of us to vehemently ensure it.
Anyhoo, I think atheism is a wonderful thing; when a thinking person forces another thinking person to reflect upon their faith. I think our differences are a gift from God. Sorry, hate to bring the G word up.
No one is forcing you to think, it is not a requirement for faith.
See I would disagree with you I've seen some very insightful posts by atheists.
Yes, but no matter how insightful you may claim them to be, they haven't swayed your indoctrinated beliefs in the slightest.
See, I honestly don't know that I would call them indoctrinated beliefs. Trust me, my interpretation is too out there for anyone I know. God is God. God is good. God is Love. If I ever have cause to doubt that, I guess it's out the door. Televangelists, stodgy churches, and the karaoke churches are a mystery to me. I just don't get them. And this crazy stuff about God wanting us to be financially prosperous is a hoot to me. Call me crazy.
Are they beliefs you grew up with your whole life, in other words, is it the religion of your parents?
No. my parents were southern baptist. Stodgy church, but still way right wing. I rebelled and told the powers that be from the beginning it wasn't right. Sorry, can't pin me down on that one.
Sure I can, you were indoctrinated into their belief system throughout your childhood. The fact that you may have slightly changed your belief system to suit your own personal needs does not preclude the indoctrination.
In other words, you still emphatically believe in gods. With indoctrination, it isn't the specifics or details of the religion itself, it is instead the process of you having accepted beliefs that have absolutely no evidence to support them, without questioning or criticizing them.
This is the fundamental principle behind indoctrination as defined:
Indoctrination: Teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically.
I think we are making progress here.
Are we making progress? Hmm, I'll have to ponder that one Dr. Beelz. I get where you are coming from, but I believe you take it too far. It seems to me what you propose is that if two people were raised with the concept of God only the one who walks away from it is considered right.
The concept of God is not, in my opinion, indoctrination. Cal me crazy.
Or, most likely, they are both wrong.
That is because the definition of indoctrination has nothing to do with the concept of god. Indoctrination is a process of teaching, but it is a process of teaching that does not allow for questioning and criticism, and only acceptance of the ideals and beliefs presented.
Hey, not to belabor a point, but in response to your last post, I'm pretty sure if there was ever a time in my life that I was not allowed to question it was in a previous incarnation. I have never allowed anyone to tell me how to think, since I was old enough to do it.
I am not indoctrinatable. Whether it's a real word or not. I have always done what I believed to be right, whatever the cost in terms of punishment.
Please feel free to continue believing that. Few if any believers will admit to being indoctrinated and will tell you flat out they came to the decision themselves to believe the things they believe.
But, that's how religion propagates in our society, through indoctrination. This is a very simple concept.
"Cognitive dissonance theory has much to say about the mass delusions, which have the facade of legitimacy because of their sheer number of believers.
To non-believers, these are completely loony beliefs that only persist because of cultural momentum. Because of cultural momentum, a believer faces great dissonance in admitting that such beliefs are foolish.
It would be very difficult for them to admit that their religion is nothing but a fairy tale; they would experience strong dissonance between “I’m intelligent and rational” and “I strongly believed in a fairy tale”.
In response to your last post (I have no idea why I don't keep getting reply buttons like it appears everyone else does)I cannot let you have the last word on this, but it appears I'm going to have to. I realize there is no way to explain my position. For the moment, I concede the point.
If you are on threaded then I had the same problem when I arrived on these forums. Then by accident found the threaded and chronological button at the top right of the forum screen. Chronological puts it in the format that most forums have and the reply button is there. It is less complex to follow the different discussions.
That's fine, but if you would, do this as an experiment. Pretend, for the sake of argument, that our universe is completely devoid of gods, in other words, no gods of any kind exist.
Then, try to explain why you believe the things you believe while at the same time trying to explain why you didn't grow up to be a Muslim, for example. Did anyone ever sit down and explain the beliefs of the Muslims in the same way southern baptism was explained to you?
If it was explained, were you told to believe in southern baptism and told not to believe in Islam? Can you remember throughout your childhood any of these things?
Woohoo. Thanks to Penny I don't have to concede the point after all. Do not blame me for this.
I will agree that my faith in Christ is a personal choice. I have no proof, other than what I see as the logic of it.
God is another thing entirely. Sorry, but I do have proof that there is something out there, something that is omnipresent and something that has been kind enough to intercede on a personal level. This does not mean, in any way, that I think I have gained anything other than insight as to the nature of this presence. Nor do I think personal gain other than spiritually is offered.
Sorry, were there no organized religion, were there no parents, were there no books on the subject, and if the entire world were inhabited by atheists; with no other plausible explanation I would still have to believe.
So would you believe in a generic God or the biblical God?
Now could YOU take control of your rational brain, and honestly answer the question? You are right, I do hold out hope for you.
Argh I cannot see what is so difficult about this concept. I'm going to swype slowly, please do try to keep up.
I have faith in Christ because I see the logic in it.
I believe in God because I know him to exist.
But you made this statement before:
"Sorry, were there no organized religion, were there no parents, were there no books on the subject, and if the entire world were inhabited by atheists; with no other plausible explanation I would still have to believe."
So for the life of me, I don't know how you could have ever known about Jesus. I was a bible thumping nut, and I know that the only way I learned of Jesus was through indoctrination.
Could you honestly explain to me how you could possibly know about Jesus without the assistance of parents, religion, or the BIBLE? Maybe I'm just missing something. Sorry if I appear to be dense.
Try to keep up with the thread getitrite. I have conceded this point already. It doesn't make the account any less believable to me. Call me crazy. And hey, after my last post, I think you'll have a lot of company.
I would like to say that you will never be able to badger me out of belief. I'd need an intelligent argument for that.
But nevertheless your beliefs are absurd.
Please google Cognitive Dissonance.
I wish you wouldn't feel so defensive as to think I'm badgering you, because I'm not. I'm only asking logical, practical, intelligent questions.
I hate what They've done to you. It's so sad.
Actually, I'll start at the bottom of you post. This one is actually polite, but go through other threads and observe your behavior. You are write often badgering and come off as extremely rude.
As to the aviation of delusion, I'm not sure I can expand on what I already said. I realize coming from the home of a minister, and being an atheist, you feel doubly qualified to laugh at such a claim.
Anyway, your post has way too much stuff for me to address individually. I do get the point of your post, but if I had believed anything I said could bie me in the butt, I'm pretty sure I could have stopped myself from typing it .
I am not like you. I honestly don't care who sees what. Anyway, this thread is getting old. You can remember most of this I'm sure and use it when you attempt to argue on another thread. I don't mind in the least.
Hey, I see there were a lot of typos in that last response.sorry.I swype and I forgot to proofread.
Sorry, but I don't what you're referring, what did Penny say exactly?
I am honored and deeply respect your honesty for saying that. Of course, indoctrination usually means you really didn't make that choice at all, it was made for you through the process of indoctrination. Notice you have no faith in Allah.
I appreciate that, but so far, no one has ever brought forth proof of any gods. And while I can understand the proof you speak of is personal, it is no more valid than the Muslim who claims they have proof of Allah.
I seriously doubt that. Had you not heard of your beliefs from your parents, peers or had read them in scriptures, the concept of Christ would be entirely foreign and unknown to you. And, there would be no need for Christians to evangelize.
Well, I do not expect you to understand about my knowledge of God. And I do not mean that unkindly. Personal experience is simply that. It cannot be shared completely enough for another to have any reason to believe in the honesty of the person who has experienced it. And have no personal interest or reason to seek your belief in me.
But I will concede that it would be impossible for me to know anything of Christ through any thing other than what the human world has offered. But, I still believe that there is reason to believe in the resurrection. This concept has not ben proven to be wrong, or right, by our society. And if have never been afraid of being proven wrong on my suppositions.
Anyway, the bottom line is we are just talking. I see your stand and completely understand it. I see mine too, and I am simply not the type of person that needs more than that. I do not know how to find the need to fit into anyone's box.
Yes, exactly. You have no explanation. That's why I provided one for you. That is because ones so-called religious personal experience is indistinguishable from delusion.
Sorry, but zombification is only available to those who read Shelley. It would be absolutely ridiculous to believe that anyone can take dead bodies and bring them back to life.
Perhaps, but you are free to explain how it is we can bring dead bodies back to life. I await your detailed explanation.
The only box I would possibly wish you to live is within the box of reality. You are free not to live there, but it's only a detriment to you to allow your childhood indoctrination to continue to rule your worldview.
This chronological thing is so cool. You could have shared it so long time before Penny did. Hmm, I guess knowledge is power though. Anyhoo, calling it delusion does not make it so. Sorry.
As to the resurrection, again, I conceded it is personal belief. I do not think it is possible to replicate a miracle. Will there come a day that modern science can explain it? Maybe. But it wouldn't be taken on faith if we could explain it.
As I said. We're just talking. I am anyway. I realize that most people have a need to fit in the mold. I see that as insecurity in oneself. I am about as sane as the next person. As crazy as the next too. But I am independent in my thought.
Reality is what you, during lucid moments (I threw that in so you knew I didn't think I was crazy when this happened. What you think is your own thing) have experienced. I cannot help the realty of my life. Won't apologize or be embarrassed about it either.
Do not take offense, but I consider myself better off than most since I don't feel the need to worry about others think.
Attempting to show it is anything but delusion is for believers to do if they wish to be taken seriously about their beliefs.
Considering it's most likely a myth, that would be highly unlikely.
Perhaps, but you are not alone in your beliefs.
Not really. Reality is the universe around us in it's current state and has nothing to do with our experiences.
Isn't that rather having a closed mind?
We're dancing here and nobody is willing to give up the lead. We will never agree on your first two points. I doubt you would ever admit understanding the third point.
You are right. I have no way of knowing if I am truly alone in my beliefs. I doubt anyone truly has a unique idea.
Oh and I can't imagine us seeing eye to eye on your last point.
I don't consider myself close minded, but I can see how that statement might be perceived in that light. If I offended, I apologize. It was not my intent.
I most certainly agree with any reasonable or logical explanations that would distinguish religious belief from delusion, and fact from myth.
Of course not, you need to explain it first.
No apologies are required, I'm not in the least offended.
But, if you don't care what anyone thinks, then you have a closed mind.
Well, obviously if care what others think on some way. I apologized didn't I?
Ok, this chronological thing has some serious drawbacks. I can only see the things you picked and chose for you post. I'll adress what I can see, or remember.
The delusion statement. We will never agree because of course you cannot conceive something you've never experienced. How could you?
The third point has to do with ego and self image. I don't worry about either, but I understand that a large percentage of the world considers these more important than truth.
I don't remember the last point you made or why I was accused of being closeminded. But you are the first person I've never met that told me that. No one I've ever met has said it either. I don't perceive it to be true.
Easily. I can understand that the claims made are so far-fetched they violate the physical laws of the universe. That indeed is delusion.
I never said you were, all I did was follow through on the logic of your own words, for that I apologize if you thought it was my remark to you.
Quite frankly, you are one of the few believers that has attempted to be honest with me in many of your statements, and for that I thank you.
Again with the dancing. I suppose the issue you failed to adress is the most difficult for you. And I do get it.
I will say, I thought better of you than to offer insult. I am honest. I don't simply try to be. It is a point of honor that I take quite seriously.
I have no idea what you're talking about, please explain.
No one can be honest unless they are honest with themselves first. Stating that which clearly defies any logic and reason is not honest to ones self.
You know, actually, even though you insulted me this exchange has been extremely enlightening. I doubt on the same level as you consider yourself enlightened, but that's Ok. We both got something useful out of it. You had a bit of fun, I've done that plenty of times myself with these things. I learned a little more to help me understand why the atheist stand is so difficult. Interesting exchange.
Oh and since you are truly clueless as to the reasons why your statement was an insult, it's forgotten.
Yes, standing grounded in reality is not easy. One can turn to the irrational with little more than a flip of a page in a book.
So why do you keep being dishonest with yourself.
Beauty is only skin deep; ... Some people are honest clear to the bone.
You mean, why don't I deny reality and begin believing in backwoods, hillbilly religious beliefs?
Hey jerami, that's one dark rabbit hole he's got going there. I made it out alive. woohoo! A little worse for the wear though. LOL.
So, reality to you is one dark rabbit hole? Interesting.
Well, when in close proximity to you, definitely.
Sorry, but there aren't two realities, only one.
Well if that's true then that's really one dark mind you've got there. I guess it was so dark I thought it was a rabbit hole.
Where would I start? How could you follow me? I see you've got plenty of rhythm, but when you decide to stop dancing around everything I'd be willing to give it a shot.
Listen, if I thought it would be an honest conversation I'd say something. But I think you're following some stiff rule book on debating. I'm just here having fun. Oil and water for communicating.
Hey, one question and, in my opinion, you owe me; but it's up to you if you answer. Your screen name, that isn't supposed to mean the father of Beelzebub is it?
Yes, exactly. However, most people don't really know him that well. He's actually not a bad kid, just a little misunderstood.
You'll notice that in the bible, when you do a body count, his is only around 8 while god gets close to 32 million.
Just to put it into perspective.
Cute. You must have serious issues. Oh well, at least my guess was right.
I don't have any problem with what he believes!
But talk about lieing to himself .... Boy hidey
He just can't be honest with himself about anything that I have heard of.
Usually when a person is upset about something (Anything) some body is doing, there is a bit of that "Fault" that is within themselves.
May not be exactly the same, might not be a different color; or the the same pants,, but it is still the same as that which they are projecting outward.
Maybe some day when he grows up, he will be different.
Honestly? I think that's just the way he is. I talked to him and another guy in the turn the other cheek thread and civility is a concept they were worlds apart from anything I have ever been exposed to. And I've lived all over the world. It was really impossible to follow. I have a better understanding now, but I feel a little sad for the knowledge.
My goodness, Jerami, an entire post centering around me, full of personal insults, diatribe and venom. How delightful it must be to be a good Christian and follow the words of Christ.
Where do I sign up?
I don't know that they'd let you in, now that they know who your son is.
True, they are indeed intolerant to anyone who doesn't share their beliefs.
Well, I think belief in God is kind of a requisite.
Not exactly, a belief in a particular god from a huge group of gods that are claimed to exist. In other words, the intolerance of who should not be allowed is quite well defined.
I honestly think you're overstating that. I assume your needed is mostly with the protestants. And I think they just line up together be congregation the church down the street is going to hell be the hand of the one uptown. I think anyone that comes into their church on Sunday is ok.
Oh, that was supposed to be beef with the protestants.
So, according to you, there are only two religions in the world? What about Zeus and Thor?
Was I talking about you?
IF the shoe fits, and if it is yours then you should wear it.
Reality is reality ....
Whether we wear bifocals or a blindfold we are what we are.
I know. Why is it so hard for everyone to see it? I'll be honest with you, I've known some atheists, but nothing like on this site. I feel like seeing if there's some atheist club here so if could find one like these people and get a closer look. This is vey odd to me.
We are in the 'atheists club' for it's the forums that they troll around, in the bizarre belief that by repeating the same old rubbish they will stop the whole Christian system from reaching those who have not heard of Christ.
Which in any case is a very small number by now.
But remember that they are mentioned in scripture, and are essential in keeping the topic alive and appealing to those who do not know Christ.
In other words they serve a purpose, like flies they may be annoying, but they are part of Gods plan.
They just don't know it.
Oh, I know that. They seem anywhere from empty, to mad at God. Like I said, I know several people that have no belief, but I have never encountered anything like is here. For allI know they may be my friends, just here venting what they don't feel comfortable saying out loud. I would find it hard to believe that they would be as callous as some are here. Do you think this is the norm for the way atheists interact with others? Have I just been lucky with the people I know? It's all very odd to me.
Yes when I first came in hre I was totally suprised.
I thought I was a radical. <
And yes, aguasilver, you are correct. and we must remember that.
Well, it is just very sad. I guess not for them. I just don't get it at all. And I've usually had a knack for seeing all sides of an issue.
You still can. It is just hard to believe anyone can maintain the position that they do.
They do not even try to undrstand what anyone else is saying.
They have a script and are just looking for a place to copy and paste from their multipal choice replys.
Been a long day ... I'm going to lay down on the coutch.
If I sleep, if I awake I'll be back.
I've got it all in perspective now. I guess I was just in a foul mood yesterday. We had a puppy die and we were all in a funk.
I'm afraid I don't see it as raising them, so much. There really isn't anything to resist. I mean, they are truly fretful at times, but that idea of reality is not something I'd close my eyes and try to believe. Seems a little farfetched.
And here we find the accusation of delusional. I will stop posting now since it is obvious who the honest one is. Whatever game you were playing, I hope you had fun.
Being called "delusional" isn't an accusation. WOW! It's a descriptive word for a state of mind.
cagsil, that want the point of my post. Sorry, I was called dishonest in another thread over this and if went in search so that if I was wrong I would know it.
If you use the term delusional in reference to what I have experienced as far as I am concerned I am being accused of having been delusional. It is a descriptive word of his opinion of my state of mind. It is indeed an accusation in my opinion.
But I'm sure it will warm beelzedad's heart to see you trying to take up for him.
I'm not taking up for him. I am correcting your understanding of the written language. But, good luck.
Attempting to, it seems to me. I don't split hairs. I have gleaned that you do. If this helps you raise your opinion of yourself, then please proceed, but it is irrevelent to the reason I posted.
Well, with that attitude, it's obvious you don't care how you present yourself to others, nor do you give a damn about others. So, that means, what you say is irrelevant across all spectrums.
Thus, anything and everything you've said during your time here is meaningless. But, try to have a good day.
Again, another complete fabrication on your part, no one is accusing you of anything. I see it appears quite impossible for you to be honest with me.
Nice game. Not sure what the point is. Don't care.
I cannot believe you forced me to second guess myself. This post clearly implies a disbelief in the concept of any god figure.
what denomination are you now? Non-denominational (that seems to be a popular option these days)
Sorry. Reasons for belief are as myriad as reasons for non belief. I am no denomination. I find that to be the most confusing thing on this site. It appears the word Christian means one thing. I do not agree with the general consensus of what and what the word means. Sorry. Outside of the box is who I am.
A question for thought. Are you proud and will defend your religious organizations atrocious historic past considering you are part of that organization today?
For example, should those who continue to remain in the Nazi Party be exonerated for the parties past atrocities?
I see your point. There are many ways to approach this question.
I apologize. It was pointed out (somewhat oddly, and I think this may be the post he was refering to) When he stated that I ran away from a difficult question. I didn't see this as difficult, but I hate to be called chicken.
This is a difficult question. After the twin towers were bombed there was a talk arranged at the local library. Muslims wanted to share their thoughts. I had been shaken to the core by the tragedy and although I could see by my daily actions that I was still in shock I made plans to attend.
I suffered a great deal of criticism, but I wanted to do something to show that I did not blame the muslims for the acts of these maniacs. I also made a point to ensure the parking lots of their retail establishments were not always empty during the first few weeks afterwards.
So, to answer your question, yes and no. I think people should be seen as individuals; be given the same consideration as we give them under our rule of law; organizations should be taken at their stated purpose if the majority adher to the standards of conduct we hold dear as a society. I realize the last statement is open for interpretation, so it is not a point I would argue unless I felt someone was unfairly attacking a member.
I hope this answers your question, and I hope it is the one referenced below. If not, I'm sure I'll hear from him.
So - you will continue to support Nazi-owned businesses in that case? As long as the owners did not actually herd people into a gas chamber.
Sounds like you are actually defending your irrational belief system and using the "they were not real Christians." argument.
Oh. Anyone up at this hour must be either an insomniac or toasted. From your post, I would hazard a guess as to which you are. That's silly. The Nazi party's stated purpose is hatred at every level. I would judge them by their stated purpose, therefore any members would have to be seen as suspect.
Good grief! As I said - what you are really doing is defending your irrational belief system.
Actions speak louder than words - yet you take the "stated purpose," as enough for you? I take it you have not read your or the Muslim manifesto in that case, because both of their stated purposes is to convert the world at all costs. And no matter how many Christians kill for god - you will still defend it.
You do not appear to be very curious at all - you never even entertained the possibility that I am in a different time zone to yourself. You should change your username to "i_have_all_the_answers."
Probably past your bedtime.
I believe you are being as unfair to the muslims as the Christians. Yes, there atte more radical factions in their ranks and yes, I don't think the moderates speak out strongly enough. But, for the most part they are decent people who live amongst us in peace.
This applies in America only. if the radicals in the middle east went to hell in a handbasket I wouldn't spot them a penny for the boatman.
Surely you are not referring to blind faith as thinking? But good try. You are so clever
Wow. You called me clever. I don't know how to respond. I know the kind thing to do would be to say,' oh, so are you', but I kind of take the commandments seriously. So sorry. I hope that didn't offend.
I won't ask which commandment you are referring to, because that would just open up another inconsistency in your exchanges.
This is a peering into the mindset of the indoctrinated mind, and its struggle to persist in the face of total destruction of the delusion. I feel your struggle. A struggle, that one professing to be a seeker of the truth, is actually angered when truth enters the room. Fascinating.
What? That made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. maybe you were wrong. Perhaps I'm no so clever after all. LOL.
I've reread the posts above and haven't the foggiest where the truth is you are referring to.
If I ever arrive at the point where you are right, trust me, I will freely admit it. I realize you may have deeply seated issues which drive the need to attempt to belittle someone with the faith you deny, but I can assure you; your Pentecostal faith is in no way a mirror to my own.
Why is pointing out the obvious irrational nature of your beliefs "belittling"? How is pointing out that most self-professed Christians do not actually act as they instruct others to do "belittling,"?
The truth hurts I guess.
Your beliefs are irrational and you do not follow the instructions in your bible.
Let us see if you are as good as your word.
wow. What blew up your skirt? Not sure, again, I have the foggiest idea what you are talking about.
I realize to explain to you that I don't perceive my allegiances as irrational is so waste of breath, but I stepped into an atheists thread, so if have no reason to find it odd that I would be on that.
As to not following the instructions of the Bible; What? In what way?
Oh, to really irritate you, I think you should know I believe the only one who can say they are a good Christian is one who recognizes they are not perfect and incapable of always doing what is right, which means they do not always attain the standard they would consider to be a good person. So I may answer your reply in a way that you consider acceptable.
Sort. Meant to say my reply might be unacceptable.
I don't really care that you choose to change the meaning of the word "Christian," in order to defend your irrational beliefs. All Christians do this because they hold an untenable belief system which has a history of bad behavior behind it. Which is one of the things the bible tells you not to do.
This is why your religion always causes a fight. Always has, always will.
Hard as you are trying to irritate me (once again going against the bible) I am not irritated at all. I understand why you need to do this and am simply attempting to educate you are to why your religion always causes so much conflict in the faint hope you might change. To clarify - I mean the generic "you," as these are open forums.
Oh, you're talking about the generic you. Sheesh. Why didn't you say that up front. I have no earthly idea what your concept of the generic you is. How in the world am I supposed to give you a response we could discuss? Sheesh again. I see all atheists as having come to conclusions on a personal level, for personal reasons. Son of a gun, I thought that was how we were supposed to perceive everyone. My bad.
Of course it doesn't make sense to you, because you are too busy fighting to defend your debunked beliefs.
Of course you don't, because you are too busy fighting the rational side of you brain. And you are becoming quite angry.
Of course you would, but you can't, because you are too busy fighting the rational side of your brain. And I sense your anger is intense.
Deep seated issues? Don't make me laugh. This coming from someone who believes that a 2000 year old book, written by ignorant goat herders, is the ultimate truth, and that there is a voyeuristic Bronze age skydaddy meticously logging everything we do...and using that data to determine whether he will punish us or not.
Your passive/agressive insult shows that your anger has now become a seething cauldron.
It's interesting to me to note that believers threaten hell and damnation, and then when cornered say it wasn't them that threatened it, it was God. So that loop hole always stays open. One of the things that always gets me is that it seems incredibly difficult for believers to take responsibility for their lives with such loop holes and also a basis of waiting to be saved when they should figure out how to save themselves. If someone else does it, what value is there in them missing the lesson completely? (Not excluding those times when we all need a little help, mind you.)
As for reporting threats about being sent to hell and damnation, I suppose it's about as real as someone threatening that you're going to die on a toilet in an outhouse—or any other ridiculous threat that can't be substantiated.
I do see your point though, but I guess if we have to get technical, it's really harassment and an über annoyance. Still, perhaps TOS ought to give a little leverage that includes no harassment as well.
why stop with threats of being sent to hell how about
* Being all stupid, an idiot, lazy, crazy
with be as childish as we'd like to be.
Everyone is subjected to the rules of this website and other website, it not just non-believes but we are or should be mature enough to know when we're acrossing the line.
I have been banned a few times through complaints by 'believers' - not the last one though. In each case the complaint is because the target of my slightly acidic humour, is unable to understand a metaphor (or deliberately chooses to misunderstand). This inablity to understand is probably why they follow fundamental christian beliefs in the first place - most especially creationists.
I am quitting Hubpages today in this persona and wish all you guys the best of luck and inspiration in trying to hold back the desease of ignorance and corruption that comes with the liars for jesus and their sheeple.
Been nice battling with you.
OK, but I hope you'll be back in another. You have a valuable perspective to contribute.
we have agreed and disagreed.
It has always been a conversation.
And thank you for that.
Dido with Paraglider
Sorry to see you go, sir. Take care and all the best. Hopefully, we'll see you in another persona.
you can not be serious?!
a. To make a claim of being threatened with something tangible -like your present life, work, family, etc then according to the HP TOS, you could & should report such threats.
a. If you enter a field/location -digital or not-- that clearly indicates its conditions (in this case, Religion/Beliefs) of which you clearly do not believe in/nor practice, you put yourself at risk as well as others who share your common idea. (i.e. Don't go to the barber shop, unless you want to get a haircut; if you hang around it long enough you're bound to get one).
b. According to the [alleged] threats by these persons, titled as believers, and from your statement: you are being threatened with Hell & Eternal Damnation. This constitutes in invalid threat, as there is no way to validate whether or not such a place exists nor such an event. What's more, is a person who clearly has no regard for such supposed "make believe/imaginary" events/places, cannot make a case to report, unless they have some other empirical evidence supporting the threat - after death.
c. Not being one of the titled believers or non-believers, I could also report many derogatory comments, hate speech -blatant hate speech- consistently and constantly, by several users on Hub Pages -both titled believers and non-believers. I choose not to, as it is all in digital literary non sequitur. So, I see no reason to take it seriously, personally, nor would I post an entire thread about it, in an attempt to express a loathing, a wine pairing snack or a digital logomachy.
Mark Knowles wrote.
Good grief! As I said - what you are really doing is defending your irrational belief system.
= - = - = - = - =
Everybody is doin it.
Actions speak louder than words - yet you take the "stated purpose," as enough for you? I take it you have not read your or the Muslim manifesto in that case, because both of their stated purposes is to convert the world at all costs. And no matter how many Christians kill for god - you will still defend it.
= - = - = - = - = - = -
No matter how many people misrepresent science you defend it.
As you should. If you believe in it.
You do not appear to be very curious at all - you never even entertained the possibility that I am in a different time zone to yourself. You should change your username to "i_have_all_the_answers."
Probably past your bedtime.
= - = - = - = - =
ME ... It is 3:45 AM here much past bed time and too early to be thinking properly.
But here I go anyway.
I think that most people think that they alredy know everything that they need to know.
Jerami - only people who are defending their irrational belief system think everybody is doin' it.
If that statement is correct? ...
I guess that you are saying that everyone is defending their irrtional belief systems?
Sounds right to me. I agree.
LOL. Good answer. I don't think he'll get it though.
No - that is not what I am saying at all. Rotten guess.
To know thyself, is truly enlightening. To know another just gives you food for fun. I don't think he was too off base with his response.
Of course you don't. You are defending the same ridiculous beliefs.
Ok. See, I'm stil confused here. Are we talking generic beliefs, or my beliefs? Is this like a big Risk game where we're playing teams and converts are conquered countries? You kind of confused me in the other forum. I didn't see anything in the rules about this.
Then you need to be more careful in your post cause that is certainly what it sounded like.
Can you name anyone that does not defend their beliefs?
I'm going back to bed and see if I can get a couple more hours of sleep.
see ya Later.
When another person questions you about your beliefs you need to be able to answer them sincerely and logically. That means your response need to have the power of reason behind it, otherwise their is a problem with your faith.
Unfortunately most major faiths cannot stand up to being questioned, and so they enter defensive mode which quickly shows their own lack of conviction.
Most people who belong to a religion came ot someone elses conclusion because they need someone else to discover the truth for them. It doesn't turn out well at all.
"Hell and Eternal Damnation - The Threat"
We Are All Doomed!!!
When looking at the venue of which they are speaking, I doubt it. If you are uncomfortable, don't comment on those forums. I am a Christian and I tend to leave those forums alone.
I don't know if such a threat would be taken seriously, because to be threatened with something that doesn't actually exist is no threat at all. It would be as serious as threatening you with Father Christmas not visiting you, if you are a naughty boy. That he is a myth would somewhat weaken the power of such a threat.
Wow, this must have really been weighing heavily on your mind for you to create a brand new account, and submit that answer.
Why the idea of a hell, that I don't believe in should be weighing heavily on my mind, I cannot begin to guess.
I can't either, that's why your post confused me.
Well it doesn't take a lot to confuse you does it? I had thought that the idea of the forums is that members of hubpages are entitled to post their points of view in response to a forum topic and to the views expressed by other members. Just because I am new to this site, in no may suggests that I am not entitled to express my own point of view. Or maybe it is expected that new members should wait for some time before commenting on a forum. If this is so, then I apologise, and shall wait until I have been on here long enough before commenting again.
For some of the people that posts on here, it isn't about beliefs, or theology, it is about self elevation of their self esteem.
Put every one else down (excpt your mutual appreciation club) in order to feel better about self.
I knew a guy once that admitted to me that he didn't necessarily want to have the biggest baloon at the birthday party, he just didn't want anyone else to have ANY air in theirs.
Suppose someone steals a parking spot from us. Is the sentiment that precedes the thought, "Let it go, what goes around comes around, they'll get what's coming to them," similar to the sentiment that precedes the thought, "This is no longer up to me. You will suffer eternally in the afterlife for your non-belief/sins"?
More or less, yes, same sentiment, however when someone steals my space, I try to remember that they may have a greater need for it, or may just be pig ignorant!
Likewise, ALL of the local atheists may actually come to faith in Christ. This trolling with a script may just be part of their walk, I know I did a whole secular humanist gig for 30 years before God decided to call my number, so likewise, they (the atheists trolls) may have a greater need..... or they could just be....
I actually consider the threats of damnation I get to be an honour - there is something unchristian and deeply intolerant about any believer taking relish in telling me, 'Brother, you're going to burn.' just as long as they leave it to their God and don't try lighting a match near me themselves, I can handle it.
Again, I will ask this around here...
What Christian ever took relish in saying you'd burn in hell?
Christians wouldn't make the threat if they didn't relish in doing so. Superiority complex.
There is a difference between a warning and a threat. A warning of impending doom is not a threat to harm someone or cause doom.
Yes, I suppose you missed the part where we've already discussed the definitions.
No worries SirDent, nice to see you back. Hope you are okay, I did see that thread of yours discussing a health issue.
Many put leaven on their "burger".
The leaven of political correctness, or of fear that their warnings will be taken as false piety, that they might actually have to subject even a little piece of their popularity or consciousness to martyrdom.
it's happened to me more than once Brenda - the tome is of a patronizing friendly warning - the (quoting / paraphrasing) 'I like you, and don't want to see you suffer so I feel obliged to warn you that God might send you to Hell if you don't change your wicked ways'. in other words, while the Christian wouldn't personally shove me into the brimstone forever, s/he knows someone who will, and expects me to toe the line - the relish seems to me not to be sadistic glee, but a thinking that they won't go into the hellfire themselves for being seen being pious enough to warn me - my sense is of disbelief in God, and if I found that he existed and was prepared to shove my friends into a fire, I'd want nothing to do with him anyway
In other words, you just refuse to listen to warnings, even if God Himself were to warn you. And you don't think Christians are truly capable of loving your soul, they're only doing it for their own benefit? Is that correct?
No, we don't want to be threatened by Christians. If your god came down to warn us of our futures, that's an entirely different thing. But, as it stands now, it is the Christians who are making the threats, not gods.
That has not been demonstrated here.
Brenda, a warning is a weather report that a tornado is coming - and i'd take cover. A warning that someone sentient is going to hurt me when they have the power not to hurt me is a bullying threat, not even delivered by the bully personally - If I knew someone might hurt someone else i'd help the victim, not the bully - God can't threaten me as I dont believe or think he exists - the only ones who try to change my behaviour by threatening me with God are doing so from their fear of a God and desire to appease him by driving othes into their own mindset. Once I sense that, their threat, disguised as a warning as they imagine, means nothing to me.
Frankly, I'm gettin' purty tired of atheists cajoling, seducing, personally attacking, and/or otherwise threatening people with hopelessness and nothingness.
I have never seen an atheist threaten you with anything. Do you have an example?
You must've been conveniently absent from those discussions.
At any rate, I'm very glad that God has more mercy and patience than I do! Today is still a day of salvation. He still stands at the door and knocks.
Brenda I take this writer and his comments with a grain of salt. There is a song says "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down." In the case of this writer and other so called writers like him who write nothing but choose to harrass others in what should be a religious forum one would need a whole bag of sugar in order to digest his nonsense. "O ye of 'NO FAITH' may God show you mercy." AMEN!
Thank you for the emotionally charged faith based rant. Too bad you didn't actually address anything and rather instead showed us your intolerance and superiority. Basically, you are saying that we should just shut up and go away so you may be free to threaten us with your gods wrath.
Am I intolerant? Not usually, but I draw the line at a certain point.
Am I superior? possibly in intelect and intelligence and my love and appreciation of God.
Should you shut up? Most definitely.
Should you go away? the sooner and the further away, the better.
Do I plan to threaten you with God's wrath? Heck no! I wouldn't even give you a second thought.
You try to match wits with God and one of His children, you are no match for God, let alone me.
What a singularly mean and arrogant reply.
If this this is what being a good christian entails I worry what being a bad one represents.
If you think my reply mean, you don't know me.
Thanks for that, however, it would be appreciated if you didn't ban Dave for those remarks. I would like to show him that we non-believers are above making such statements of intolerance and condescension.
It's the right thing to do, n'est pas?
Beelzedad I have no banning ability. If I did I wouldn't ban him anyway.
Dave's reply was mean. I've seen much worse. Were it my choice I'd have called him mean in person - not snuck off and pulled a plug.
No worries here - cão que ladra não morde
Dave, when people draw such a line, it usually isn't drawn behind them.
Aww - All we sed is u ain't a burnin' and u ain't need a-savin'. If'n u go agin the promise to god by leevin' the man u promised to stay with 'till death do u part - that be ur problem. We don't beleebin' in god so - wen we is deeevorcin' an a preechin' agin wot the biybel sez - it int no problem fer us'n. No hopelessness needed. Coz we in't beleebin' the threatnin'.
Dear me. No wonder your religion causes so many wars.
Its their own twisted fantasies. Let them have imaginary punishments to go along with their imaginary beings and their fictional fairy tales. It doesnt bother me. I smile with glee when Christians tell me I will burn. Just ask my father! He tells me I will burn for not believing in his religion.
Santa Claus wont come visit if you dont believe in him and act right either.. or thats what they say. I still get christmas presents every year
You come into the christian question forums with intents for disruption and so on, been doin it for too long a time and when someone tells you what they think of your hate filled speech, you start to head for hub pages help. If the truth (someone else's or your own) starts to hurt then leave or man-up.
The bible says that people who act as reprobates will be judged by God if you don't want to be confronted with that, spend more time in other forums or change you harsh one liners to something that spells a bit of intelligent debating ability. Christians will always say what comes from their truth, if you can't agree then obviously you are in the wrong forum. If you want to cry to hubpages, then obviously you are not of the calibre of people that make up Gods kingdom and whine you will.
That is a lie. My intent is not to disrupt, although I can understand how the presentation of reality would indeed disrupt a believers worldview.
Yet, another lie, as it is the hate speech of eternal damnation threats that are under discussion. Please point out my hate speech or apologize for lying.
In other words, I should just shut and go away when anyone threatens me? Should I just grow a spine and take it like a man?
Yes, I can understand why you consider me a 'reprobate' and will use the words from your bible to defend those threats. I too can find books that have hate speech written in them, but I would never threaten you or anyone else with them.
Do you mean I should begin to litter my posts with logical fallacies and magic? Is that your idea of "intelligent debating?"
Hence, the problem of conflict, wars and genocides they cause by doing so.
Yes, I do understand that you are compelled and taught to believe you are superior to me and anyone else who does not share your beliefs, and threats.
And, if your response to me is an example of the "caliber of people" who are to make up your gods kingdom, I would not want any part of it. That should make you immensely happy.
Religion or re-legion as I suggest is the indoctrination of those conquered with the conquerors views. If you look back to the historical facts behind for example Christianity you will see that its story is largely an exaggeration and in some cases, fabrication of some fairly mortal events based on Jewish religious accounts. The major difference is of course that the original Jewish based story fails to recognise Jesus as martyr because he was actually their enemy who opposed their ancestors for plagiarising Egyptian knowledge to which he was a devoted student. That's why they informed the Romans that he was a trouble maker which led to his crucifixion and also acted as a warning to his followers. Jesus is likely to have been of African descent and actually means 'of the Sun God' due to his Egypt based beliefs and not the 'Son of God' as it became reinterpreted. With the knowledge garnered from the people biblically referred to as the 'Babylonians' of how to control the masses through a manufactured belief structure, religion during the reign of the Romans was deployed as a very effective form of social control and management. The two key human emotions that make it so effective is the instillation at an early age of 'fear' i.e. condemnation to Hell's fire and 'guilt' i.e our supposed inborn fallibility that means we need need to be led by the almighty, which are actually manipulative human factions.
that's all very interesting - do you have any links about Jesus having eygptian-based beliefs etc?
Baileybear the difficulty with finding any facts behind the biblical story is that they have been obliterated by the manufactured tale. I have picked up snippets of information from various articles, readings and discussions over a period of time that once put together paint the picture I describe above. I will seek to share with you some specific articles that support my alternative summary of events.
Jesus' did miracles or magic? Nothing was said about his first 30 years.
I wrote a hub about the evolution of christianity (from other religions etc).
Could put your findings in a hub
Baileybear--Jesus is pure fiction, but not all of the tale of this myth comes from Egypt. The central parts do (The Last Supper, Resurrection, Ascension, etc) come from the Papyrus of Ani (British Museum); Jesus' calming the waters and various water references come from Homer's Odysseus (Odyssey, book 12, lines 37-55); the magi were but magicians from ancient Egypt, obedience to his mother is a retelling of Odyssey, book 11, line 85, and before the "betrayal" Jesus was in the garden drapped in a sheet that hid his nakedness before the soldiers pulled it off and the youth (maybe 16 years of age) fled naked, leaving his sheet (KJV says loin cloth) in the hands of Jesus. The Akkadians give us the early ministry, the 12 apostles were the council of Zeus, and the story of Lazarus is Babylonian. Nothing about Jesus is real. It is as much an invention as is the story of the illiterate Muhammad who allegedly was given the Koran by the archangel Gabriel--an erotic tale from 2000 BCE.
Which Hell are you being sent to, Beelyboy? The Evangelist's Hell, The Catholic's Hell, The Jehova Witnesses' Hell? Or do they let you take the trolley and visit the different parks to see where you want to get off? Is it like Disney World? Where you can buy a pass to visit all parks in 24 hours? Find out! Might be kind of exciting!
Hell is a fictional place. To ancient Apiru it was a place of darkness. To ancient Romans it was a place of forelornness. To the ancient Greeks it was an underworld presided over by Hades who kidnapped Persephone and created winter. To the Bedouins it was a place of locusts and insects. To Dante the center of Hell was frozen over, with the devil in the center and the greatest betrayers of men near him.
No one ever entered hell and returned to tell about it--save for a few fantasies where the speaker has no foundation in historical fact. Freud said it best, that hell is the worse you can imagine, but it remains imagination. There is no hell and there is no afterlife. We are all a part of the great movement of eternity and when we die a corporal death our atoms will spread out. I have neither a need nor a belief in a heaven nor a hell, for I prefer rational thinking and not wishful fantasizing.
Checked out your 'Ruminations on Religion'. Seems to leave room for runination.
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