DO YOU BELIEVE IN SECOND COMING OF JESUS CHRIST ?

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sooner than laterposted 14 years ago
Really, I have a nonprofit tax ID# and someone could be the accountant of a newly opened account. We could raise money to have a fresh well dug in Africa. We could feed people. I don't know.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This sounds great. See if you can drum up some support among the hub community. And keep in touch with me...
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
Only if one is a jesus freak.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nah, you only need to be human to recognise that Manson is pure evil and it's a bad joke even today.... unless sadistic ritualistic murder is your thing?
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is it wrong to murder?
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cluenseposted 14 years ago
The answer to this question is simple. YES! Just look at the signs of the times! I hope he comes soon!
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
Clue...If you find waiting for your reward in heaven to be in jeopardy...you can always go ahead and step off that bridge and open your own pearly gates yourself.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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terrowhiteposted 14 years ago
Yep, I think when all the proficies of Bible will come true then the next brith will happen..
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
in answer to the question, yes.

however, the interpretation MANY believers have been taught is incorrect, thus a fear and false truth spread among the churches about the return.

1. about the devil: according to all the books within, he was defeated and all his power stripped upon the death, descent and ascend of Y'shua Mashach or Greek Iesus Christos.

2. the beast and false prophet. both represent items of the law of sin and death (aka old covenant).

3. the book of revelation opens with: This is the Revelation of Y'shua Mashach not This is the Book of the end of mankind.

4. All the 'events' (seals, trumpets, bowls) occur before the 'harvest of the earth'... (chapter 14)

Am actually considering writing a hub specifically about such, in hopes of clarifying...
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I would encourage you to do so, it is needed and would assist many to understand the Revelation of Y'shua Mashach.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Has this conversation been going on all night!
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Bard of Elyposted 14 years ago
In a word - NO!
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
I am still waiting for the first coming.
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
I am still waiting for the first coming.
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
I am still waiting for the first coming.
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
I am still waiting for the first coming.
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
I am still waiting for the first coming
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
I am still waiting for the first coming of
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
I am still waiting for the first coming of jesus.
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
I am still waiting for the first coming of jesus.
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
I am still waiting for the first coming of jesus.
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pylos26posted 14 years ago
Never try to add to a post after clicking submit.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
Don't wait !

He came, he died.

I'm tempted to say a joke...
Better not !
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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Valerie Fposted 14 years ago
It'll happen. I won't pretend to know how or when. The whole point is whether it's in our lifetimes or several generations away, we should be prepared either way.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes ! I'm prepared !
  To see your face of disappointment!
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and embarrassment
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I feel myself getting irritated again at this (thought I was over it after a good night's sleep).
  
  Frankly, and to be blunt, any Christian who wastes his time with this stuff is -- wasting his time; and as far as I understand, it is not his time to waste, once he has given himself over to God, as the expression goes.
  Look, you want a doctrine that makes sense to non-believers, and comes straight out of the gospels, read Matthew chapter 25 -- there's no pussyfooting around there: with the billions of people living in dire straits in the world, your focus on this stuff is your ticket to hell: or have you never heard of the Pharisees.
  
  I mean, if you are going to claim to follow the Gospels that is your right. Thank God you live in a country where you are safe to do so; I'd die defending your right to believe whatever you want: but, once you declare this belief, for God's sake be consistent... I say (yet) again: Matthew chapter 25
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Preterism. Nice one
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lyricsingrayposted 14 years ago
I like how you structured coming and second in your forum headline, thanks
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getitriteposted 14 years ago
Jesus came to an open mic performance I was doing one night. He was so impressed with my playing that he asked me to join his band. He was an, exceptionally, gifted guitar player. He was so good, he put the rest of the band and me through hell, just trying to keep up with him.

He put us through three months of torturous practice. He never missed a note. We were just getting ready to go out on the road, when all of a sudden, one day, he just disappeared. I have reached a new level in playing and I was ready to show the world, but he just cut me off. Jesus was one hell of a guitar player...and 7 feet tall, I might add!

I can't wait until his second coming!
Thank you, Jesus.
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
Matthew 25 is a great reference. The full preterist faith also like this one or so I'm told. They are christian but a funny ol bunch. They believe the second coming was back in 70 AD.
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hmmmmmmmmmm
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What I like about it is THAT IT IS LOGICAL. None of this "if you never heard of Jesus too bad for you when you die." No, instead, were you out there helping address the world's needs (it's not like there are only one or two "needs" out there, after all)? No? Too bad for you. You don't get a ticket...
  
  ...I mean if God gave us brains, then surely he wouldn't then send us a prescription for "salvation" that requires convoluted logic with holes in the argument. That's why I like Matthew chapter 25: it just makes so much damned sense (pardon the pun)
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hmmmmmmmmmmmm
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lyricsingrayposted 14 years ago
I love this thread
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pay2cEMposted 14 years ago
It's a bit hard to swallow when we recall that Jesus, Paul, and a few other New Testament writers were QUITE convinced that Jesus' return would happen in their own lifetimes. Paul thought the return was so imminent that he advised people it was better to refrain from marriage, and Jesus himself told his listeners on several different occasions that he was coming back during their lifetimes:

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Matthew 16:28)

"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27)

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:33-34)

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." (Luke 21:31-32)

Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." (Mark 13:29-30)

"But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."(Matthew 10:22-23)

These are the verses that C.S. Lewis "fondly" dubbed "the most embarrassing passages in the Bible." Since Jesus was dead wrong about his return on numerous occasions, you'll understand why I don't buy it just because Bob from down the street, or Larry from the internet "feel" very strongly about it.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tom Harpur also makes the tantalizing point that Paul never once makes any reference whatsoever to any event in Jesus' life, or any saying Jesus is supposed to have uttered, according to the Gospels.
  Harpur suggests that Paul did not actually believe that Jesus had been a real person, and that, in fact, it never even occurred to him to consider the possibility. After all, Paul was converted by a vision, an apparition. I am sure this was life-changing, and accounts for his change in personality (irrespective of the origin of that vision, indeed), but shows he did not have to believe in the historical facts of the Gospel to have been converted.
  
  This opens some very interesting cans of worms. Perhaps, he says, you can be a Christian and not believe Jesus really existed. In fact, he claims to be exactly just this sort of "Christian."
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed, when you go up against C. S. Lewis you're bound to be on thin ice. I think that guy knew more than a thing or two more about Christianity than your average websurfer.
  
  Then there was Martin Luther, the guy who kicked off the entire Protestant movement (from which derive Baptists, Pentecostals, and everyone else). He didn't believe that all of the books of the New Testament were canonical. So, you know, if HE wasn't a Bible literalist... are we going to say Martin Luther wasn't "saved"???? It was he who came up with all this focus of "salvation by faith through grace" in the first place...
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You didn't mention something that generally goes un noticed. Matt. 24:3, ... Mark 13:3, ... says
  that this was a PRIVATE conversation between Jesus and Peter, James ,John and Andrew
  Does the fact that this was a private conversation mean anything when Jesus said, "you will see
  They will take YOU before the synagogu
  When YOU sahll see
  Verily I say unto you This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled but no one knows the DAY or Hour Private conversation ???????
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  pay2cEMposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the pointer. I'll make a note of it and save it for next time.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus is talking about those who did not suffer death. John, did not die.
  
  "all these things be done" is talking about Jesus completing His death and resurection.
  
  he said, "I come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it"
  and He did.
  Many false interpretations. You have posted one.
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  pay2cEMposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In what fantasy world of your did John not die? Nice try.
  
  "All these things be done" is most certainly NOT talking about Jesus death and resurrection. Read the expanded context of that passage:
  
  22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
  
  26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
  
  29"Immediately after the distress of those days
  " 'the sun will be darkened,
  and the moon will not give its light;
  the stars will fall from the sky,
  and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[a]
  
  30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
  
  32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[b]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[c] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
  
  Again, nice try.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
soothsayer
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
"the most embarrassing passages in the Bible." Hmmmmmm. There is a big choice!
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  pay2cEMposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know...take your pick, right? But it's mighty telling that a Christian APOLOGIST would make this admission.
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bensuzuposted 14 years ago
I believe in the coming of Christ, the third Adam (Jésus told he was the second Adam).
Maybe in a different way than people might do.
I do not believe Jesus will come back in a physical body, he is in spiritual world and is coming back every day to people who love him and doesn't need to come back from the cloud.
Yet eventhough Jesus gave his life for mankind, is the kingdom of heaven on earth as it is in heaven? Why do we need to baptized our children when oneself have been connected to God's lignage through the accepting of Jésus?
To me the third Adam came already but as it is in the time of Jesus, those who were prepared to receive him did not recognize him. They looked at him the same way the spiritual leaders of Israel looked at Jesus, with human eyes and not God's eyes. Jesus was known as a boy born from a woman without a father, he was puar, from a carpenter, going with tax collectors and prostitutes, he was not doing rituals as the jews were doing. Eventhough he cured thousands of people, when the soldiers came to take him, they were nobody to be willing to take his place on the cross. If someone had volontier to do that, do you think that Jesus would have gone to the cross?
I think if he did not go, the kingdom of heaven would have appeared already on earth 2000 years ago. Why wait 2000 years? Doesn't God want to save and guide and correct his children as quick as possible. Why would he want to wait thousand of years and let evil multiply more and more. I think things happened out of God's control and because of man's fallen nature.
Jesus said himself "when the son of man will come will he find faith on earth?" (sorry my english is not perfect).

I hope i did not bore all of you too much

Hideo and i send all of you lots of love from our family to yours
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  interestingly enough, the 3rd Adam would be the Spirit.
  The kingdom of heaven is now within all who receive the Teacher, that is the Spirit.
  Because the letter destroys but the Spirit is Life & Light.
  
  I have attempted to explain this to the "Revelation-ists",
  that foremost it is the "Vision of Y'shua" (Hebrew word for revelation is vision) Without a clear vision the people perish.
  
  Also that they misread it, saying there is a 'rapture' or to be a 'great tribulation' in the 'end times'. Neither appears in any transcript or translation be KJV, NIV or any other V.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I do not agree with the statement that Jesus was wrong when he made these statements... I believe that we have wrongly defined his coming again. I believe that he did come again but in such a way that the inhabitents were un aware. We need to quit interpretating what we want the scriptures to be saying.
We are now living in the last days of indignation. That hebrew nation of the first century lived through the Great tribulation and their last days. The seventh trumpet has not sounded yet. the seventh vial has not been poured out yet. All of the rest of prophesy has been fulfilled.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
The night before his crucifixion, standing before the high Priest, that High priest ask Jesus a question and Jesus replied to him... Matthew 27:64 .. "Thou hast said; nevertheless I say unto YOU Hereafter YEA shall see the son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven". How should we interpretate those words?

Sounds to me that Jesus has just told that high priest that the second coming was going to come before that priest dies..??
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sooner than laterposted 14 years ago
Resurection is one event. First to rise are the dead in Christ, then the wicked. All will see Jesus return. Right now, that priest is sleeping in the grave. But when Jesus returns he will be risen and witness the glory of God.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I need to find out how to tell the diffrence between those things that Jesus said that we should interpretate the seemingly simple statement and when we are to believe that seemingly simple statement as literal truth.
  
  And when we interpretate one prophetic message are we opening the door to multitudes of diffrent interpretations?
  
  When ever I read something in scripture I try to understand it if possible as it is stated.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
sooner than later wrote:
pay2cEM wrote:

Jesus is talking about those who did not suffer death. John, did not die.

"all these things be done" is talking about Jesus completing His death and resurection.

he said, "I come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it"
and He did.
Many false interpretations. You have posted one.

Jerami said ...
John 21:22 si saying that John will not die until Jesus comes.

And the disciples ask Jesus when was those things that he had just said to the Pharisees and scribes, and concerning the destruction of the temple, They ask Jesus ,"when were these things going to happen AND your coming again.
That is the question that Jesus was answering through out the 24th chapter of Matthew 24
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
The top ten ways to recognize if you are a fundamentalist.

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Feeling better Ernest... it's good to get these things off your chest, now do you want a reply on this or were you just blowing off steam?
  
  John
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hey John. No need to answer, just laying out some truth!
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owner_2posted 14 years ago
I cant believe in any GOD no.I just believe in myself.But i do miss having faith on GOD
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I solved that one by standing in an olive grove behind my house (I live in Spain) and shouting loudly at the sky:
  
  "IF YOU EXIST, YOU'D BETTER MAKE YOURSELF KNOWN TO ME"
  
  If He was not there, He could not hear and I would not hear and I could know that I was on my own in this world.
  
  Finding God is logical... all you need to do is INVITE Him to contact you, sometimes God will just drop by you, unannounced, but generally God awaits OUR invitation to visit.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  PS... It took me 18 months to finally accept that all these strange and wonderful things that started happening in my life were Him speaking to me, and then I started speaking back to Him and hey presto!
  
  We were in LOVE!
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm. What kind of things does God tell you to do?
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Read my hubs Marine and find out!
  
  What does He tell you to do....?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not the one that has conversations with him. If he told me what to do, it wouldn't be free will.
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  chambersgirl21posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, God has a plan for us he has his commandments that we should all keep. People can choose whether or not to follow them, is that not free will?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Better read the commandments again! Why do you think they are called commandments?
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  wesleyacarterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i believe for the same reasons science calls it "laws" or "principles".
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not quite. If you read the ten, or the 613 (all of them)
  from the bible you will see no free will is involved. That is why they are called commandments, you are commanded to follow them! Geeze!!!!!
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  wesleyacarterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yeah everyone read them. i think you are focusing too much on the language. it's called "lost in translation". Maybe in the original language they were written in, they weren't called commandments. Do you know what they were called?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think that is a big question with many possible answers, I will leave it alone.
  To substantiate what I said about the TEN ommandments. here is one, see if you think it is a commandment or not.
  Commandment, Exodus 20:3 “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. Old Testament punishment - Deuteronomy 17:1-5 “And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they die”. Deuteronomy 13:6-10, “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is of thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God." Exodus 22:20 “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed”. New Testament punishment - Mark 16:16 “He that believeth not, shall be damned
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  wesleyacarterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  they sound like laws. you are very good at quoting, but this doesn't answer the question one bit.
  
  do you think in the original text, the word "commandment" was used to describe the TEN COMMANDMENTS? or was a different word used with different implications?
  
  it's almost certain that "commandment" was put in place by those using the English language.
  
  Do you think it's possible to be "lost in translation"?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The appearance of the commandments when read in their entirety would indicate that the translation may have made it intact, or close to the previous translation! They do indeed appear to be commandments. I can demonstrate more if you like.
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  wesleyacarterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well, they appear as commandments in context. to someone who can not read and must hear this book in oral story like those in the past Western European cultures where most were unable to read, they would sound like commandments.
  
  to me, they sounds like several different inferences made by men, especially since they mention the Lord God in third person (you know all about that ). Why is this Lord mentioned in the third person? And then in the first person again? Do you know?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do not remember that, sorry. I think it may be that Moses was supposed to have handed the ten down, but comparisons of text included in the first commandment (above) indicates that there is an opening for debate on that too.
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  wesleyacarterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i guess things would be easier if there were concrete time lines. Another thing distorted by religious utilitarian interests.
  
  i wonder if there is a way to find out how these commandments were passed down. in what historical context do these commandments hold relevance?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I would suggest the little bit of continuity of timeline we have was mostly forced on religion by science.
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  wesleyacarterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  why do you think science has concerned itself with religion in such a way? private interests? governmental interests? is science another lever of control added to religion's already mind-numbing social coercion?
  
  science was at one point, used to connect figures from the Bible more closely to Europe than the Middle East or Africa. Jesus being white with blue eyes, so on and so forth.
  
  Is there a motive here for incontinuity?
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kephriraposted 14 years ago
I don't mind how many orgasms he has, as long as he is having fun.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I don't believe in the first coming!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and definitely not in the last !
  
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
In Rev 5:6 ... stood a Lamb as it had been slain
7 ... and he came and took the book
6:1-12 ... the lamb opens six of the seals

Chapter 7 ... The 144000 saints are given a seal of God on their foreheads. And then some time passes and a great multitude are seen in heaven. v14 These came out of the Great tribulation

Chapter 8 The seventh seal is opened ........
Nothing happens as a result?? There is silence in heaven for half an hour......
Then the trumpets are handed out to the seven angels??
This has to represent a division of some time and separation between the seal judgments and the trumpet judgments.
This announced a sequence order of events

WHAT YA THINK ???
there are numerous questions that should come to mind.
Where in this story did the second coming happen?
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chambersgirl21posted 14 years ago
The top ten ways to recognize if you are a fundamentalist.

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

A- Denies? that can't be what you do.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

A- Everything still come from dirt and goes to dirt. Makes more sense than pond slime and your other falsified, 90% abandoned theory.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

A- No we don't

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

A- God doesn't believe in collateral damage when it is all His in the first place.

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

A- true

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

A- thats not true, science has a hard time admitting they were wrong.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

A- you must not understand that the wicked are burned up once in hell. then they cease to exist.

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

A- speeking in tongues is a gift from God in a language structure. Not mumbling and rolling on the floor. But to each their own.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

A- you can't count prayer for people who want to win the lottery. it's really 50% miracle rate, but the other half don't believe.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

A- thats not true either. Most of us actually know more about evolution than you do. Thats why we don't buy it.
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1. 79
  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Most of you know less than nothing in my view. How can you know anything when you refuse to examine it?
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This, still, looks like blind-faith, cleverly, disguised as logic. There were no real compelling counterview points in favor of an invisible God, who had sex with a virgin, that produced a son, who died, and came back to life. Only if one is controlled by blind-faith can he take this rebuttal as proof of the Christian god or any gods, for that matter.
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mobilephone guideposted 14 years ago
maybe.
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58
Jeramiposted 14 years ago
If the second coming and first resurrection were to happen tomorrow then there will be another 1000 years here on earth for conditions to get worse.
According to Rev 20, the saints are seen in heaven where they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This does not say that Jesus comes to the earth and reigns with man. Those dead saints reign with Christ in heaven.

And after the 1000 years Satan is released that he gather together the kings of the earth for the battle of Armageddon.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
pay2cEM wrote:
It's a bit hard to swallow when we recall that Jesus, Paul, and a few other New Testament writers were QUITE convinced that Jesus' return would happen in their own lifetimes. Paul thought the return was so imminent that he advised people it was better to refrain from marriage, and Jesus himself told his listeners on several different occasions that he was coming back during their lifetimes:

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Matthew 16:28)

"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27)

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:33-34)

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." (Luke 21:31-32)

Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." (Mark 13:29-30)

"But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."(Matthew 10:22-23)

These are the verses that C.S. Lewis "fondly" dubbed "the most embarrassing passages in the Bible." Since Jesus was dead wrong about his return on numerous occasions, you'll understand why I don't buy it just because Bob from down the street, or Larry from the internet "feel" very strongly about it.

Jerami says...
There is nothing embarrassing at all about these verses...
The only thing that is embarrassing is our inability to believe these words coming out of Jesus's mouth.
We say that Jesus is the word of God yet we do not believe his words unless THEY CONFORME to what WE WANT !!!
Jesus is the truth and the light.
If we do not see the truth can we see the light?

The most misinterpreted verses that Jesus spoke.
"This generation shall not pass till ALL OF THESE THINGS be fulfilled" "But no one knows the hour and day"

When we started interpreting the word of God THE TRUTH
was lost in the fog.
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1. 79
  Judah's Daughterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The problem is, Jerami, is that Jesus is speaking of "this generation", meaning "the generation" that sees Israel become a nation ~ that would be anytime now. Re-read the passage in context about the leaf of the fig tree.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Jerami says ... I don't know where to begin. I appreciate your concern for me. And I do not want to argue. I have been struggling with this concept for quite some time. But "with all due respect", I have a diffrent opinion as to the meaning of this verse. I have read multitudes of scripture that it is required to add words to, at the end of, which changes the meanings of the words written in order for them to hold fast to modern doctrine. When I read Matthew 23 and 24 I see as if it were, a movie or play being recited in my mind. When reading these words that Jesus is speaking as if I am sitting front row center.
  Watching this conversation play out in this manner, I can not help but to come to the conclusion that the Lord Jesus Christ was saying exactly those things that he intended for the listeners to hear and understand.
  After saying all of these things to the scribes and Pharisees, Jesus and the disciples were leaving the temple, Peter,James and John and Andrew, follow Jesus up onto the mount and ask him,"when shall these things be? (read C 23) .....
  ... and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world. I might point out that Jesus never made reference to their question concerning the end of the world. I must also add that in Matthew 24:3 and Mark 13:3 they felt that it was important enough of a fact to mention.. that this is a PRIVATE conversation. I believe that this fact is worth considerable consideration. While Jesus was answering their question which was asked in Private, he also told them of other things that they ("YEA shall see")will see and of things that will happen to they v9 Then shall they deliver YOU up to be afflicted. Jesus was not saying that "they will deliver someone else; who sees these things coming to fulfillment at some later date., up to be afflicted"
  
  I believe that v34 and v 36 is the answer to the original question, "When shall these things be" as well as referring to each and every verse that is written between, both as a group and individually. Ask an English teacher if this concept is or is not correct.
  The disciples ask, When shall these things be (Those things that Jesus had just forewarned the scribes and Pharisees OF)
  
  And Jesus answered, "This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled, but of that day and hour knowest no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my father only.
  
  I just can not get past this Idea that I have expressed in this post. Especially when there are many other situations in scripture that also seem to be point to this conclusion.
  
  I believe that the Lord has been pushing and pulling me along down this belief system that I currently have.
  
  And I do appreciate your prayers.
  May God bless you as well.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I believe in the God of Abraham, and that Jesus fulfilled all of the prophesy that was written concerning him.

I believe every word that came out of his mouth.

If I am mistaken for my beliefs that the Lord Jesus Christ has already fulfilled his promise as he said that he would ...

Then I pray that someone could show me anything written is scripture to show me the error of my ways.

"YOUR" private interpretation of something will not convince me that these simply stated words coming out of the Lords mouth does not mean exactly what they say.

As 2nd Peter 1:20 says... " Knowing this first; No prophesy of the scripture has any personal Interpretation".
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I believe in the God of Abraham, and that Jesus fulfilled all of the prophesy that was written concerning him.

I believe every word that came out of his mouth.

If I am mistaken for my beliefs that the Lord Jesus Christ has already fulfilled his promise as he said that he would ...

Then I pray that someone could show me anything written is scripture to show me the error of my ways.

"YOUR" private interpretation of something will not convince me that these simply stated words coming out of the Lords mouth does not mean exactly what they say.

As 2nd Peter 1:20 says... " Knowing this first; No prophesy of the scripture has any personal Interpretation".
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Judah's Daughterposted 14 years ago
Jerami, I haven't read everything that's been posted here, but if you believe Jesus was raised in a physically-visible body and ascended into heaven visibly, and if you believe what the angels told the disciples, that Jesus would return in the SAME MANNER He left (we will SEE Him), He has not returned yet...only in Spirit (the Holy Spirit, which indwells every believer) until He comes again (until the Day of Redemption: Eph 4:30). 1 Corinthians 13:12 tells us that we will then see Him face to face. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thes 4:17), and that when He throws the Antichrist and False Prophet into the Lake of Fire (Rev 19:20), He will reign for a thousand years while Satan is bound in the pit (Rev 20:2). Do you see false prophets, false Christs, and Satan active in today's world? While Satan has no power over God's children here on earth, he is still active and not bound. The spirit of Antichrist and false prophets are active, too! So, we're not on the other side of the millennial reign. After the millennial reign is when Satan is released for a short time and then cast into the Lake of Fire, at which time the resurrection of the unbelievers will take place, to stand at the Judgment seat of Christ. They also will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev 20:10-15). Do you still see people rejecting Christ now? Finally, the New Heaven and New earth will come to fruition, with Jesus on the throne (Rev 21:1-6). I pray you will ask the Lord to reveal all this to you. What you once believed you've worked incredibly hard to undo ~ who is the power behind that? We all await with anticipation the coming of our Lord. Amen.
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wesleyacarterposted 14 years ago
with your scientific method you should be able to prove more than that. according to you, an indication is not enough for me to accept what you point out as true knowledge. reading the commandments in their entirety doesn't prove anything.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I am just curious... why did you two jump over here to continue the conversation that you were having on the other thread? No worries... Just cuious
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John Cainposted 14 years ago
I firmly believe in the second coming and live for that day. The second coming is the main focus of my life.
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Presigoposted 14 years ago
for my part I truly hope His return is soon, we need love in this world now. There is great animosity towards those who believe in Him and it can become quite difficult to read and hear the hatred towards Him and those that follow Him, so I say please come quickly !
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1. 64
  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think Jesus was cool. People just get annoyed when they feel that modern-day people living thousands of miles from Palestine can dictate to the rest of us on a multitude of issues, using the actually-quite-admirable depiction of Jesus' life as a launching pad.
  
  That said, Presigo, I don't think I've ever seen you pointing fingers too much (I'm not being sarcastic). But out there in the world it surely happens enough to raise plenty of hackles.
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  Presigoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It does and that breaks my heart. It happens with those who oppose Christ as well. I unfortunately think this speaks to the insecurity of mankind and the frustration we feel with the state of things. We are looking for a scapegoat it would seem at times. But I believe in the spirit within us and somehow we can expend less energy hating each other and more time building each other.
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2. 58
  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Acording to our scripture; if the second coming were to come today, some lenght of time afterwards the first rescurection is suposed to come and then Satan will be bound in the pit and life will go on as usual here on earth until the 1000 years are fulfilled and then Satan is given a "Little season" to bring the world together in battle to Armageddon.
  
  I think that I see them gathering together now for the battle of armageddon.
  What does that mean????
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  0
  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is what I see too.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can not see the story running on out the way that Religion has been teaching us that it will. The battle is near. There is not enough time left for everything to unfold the way that Religion wants us to believe that it will.
  There has been many more pages of the calendar turned than what they are saying has passed.
  As in the days of Noah....? it is starting to drizzle
  and their story isn't near completed yet. Go figure???
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sandra rinckposted 14 years ago
Yes, I do believe in the Second Coming. Yes, I pray for Christ to come. I figure, because that stuff written is happening before my eyes, I can only think a couple things.

Either man is making it happen or God made it so. Either way the end feels and seems inevitable.

Since everything up to know has been 'written' I have to either take it by faith that the most incredible thing will also happen and I will have been lucky enough to see that too.

Or made it happen because he/she believed what was also written but never believed in God.

Yes, I believe in God, I believe in Jesus. And I pray for the same things that the other Christians pray for. I pray that for whatever reason God found something worth keeping in me and my family because I want to live.

If any of that makes me hateful and selfish, then I guess I am. Life is a trip that became more interesting with God in it then without.
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1. 55
  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, it certainly isn't food for thousands of starving children who die each day of starvation, so those Christians must be praying for their own personal abundance.
  
  While so many of your gods children perish in abject poverty so he could keep you and yours fat and happy. You want to live? So do those children.
  
  Yes, you are, without a doubt. You must be very proud of yourself.
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  0
  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Should I be mad at god because he didn't give me enough to feed those starving children as well or should I just call you selfish for having more but giving less.
  
  A penny from the poor to the poor is worth more than a million. sorry my pennies don't mean anything to you.
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  55
  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, we should be mad at YOU for thanking your god that he gives to you but doesn't give to others.
  
  Your stellar hypocrisy speaks volumes of your selfishness and complete lack of compassion.
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  0
  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your point?
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  55
  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ... has been completely and entirely ignored by you. Well done.
  
  The characteristics your god has bestowed upon you are gleaming through the luster of contempt.
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  0
  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't hold back now.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ever thought of writing a hub on what you believe... if you believe anything? --- or are you just another sock puppet?
  
  Ever ready, never writing, waiting to pounce.
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  0
  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Q
  The Creator gives to everyone equally. It is NOT a respecter of persons. Those who understand the principles have more, those who don't, have not -and even what they have is taken from them -not by the Creator but by themselves and others.
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  75
  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ?
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Cheaptrick,
  
  a translation from the scripture he was trying to quote:
  
  Mark 4:24-26 (New King James Version)
  
  24 Then He said to them, “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given. 25 For whoever has, to him more will be given; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.”
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  75
  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  -
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This again? Is that your only "reason" for not knowing God? Compassion, selfishness what do these words mean coming from the evolutionary atheist? You're grasping at straws and you're looking pretty desperate.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Q is clearly not the most pleasant individual in the world (at least on these forums) tis true, but I am nevertheless offended that you imply that an "evolutionary atheist" does not know what compassion is. Whatever happened to judge not lest ye yourself be judged. Millions of atheists show compassion every day... as you know, I am sure
  reply report
2. 63
  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ?
  
  k
  
  whateva, never mind...
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  0
  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
63
Mishaposted 14 years ago
You a one permanent surprise My Goddess
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