This is Islam for children.

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TMMasonposted 14 years ago
This is how children in the Arab Muslim world are taught to treat the non-believers and the Jews.

Beware!!! This is extremely graphic. but this is the true face of Islam!!!

THIS IS NOT FOR CHILDREN, NOR THE WEAK OF HEART.

<snipped - if it's objectionable content, then don't link to it here>
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  Abhaque Supanjangposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How could that happen ? Since their parents were treated badly by the non-believers and the jews. But, have you seen the condition out of Arabic land ? Totally different.
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is cause there are no other religions except Islam in Arabia... they have all been slaughtered or converted.
  
  Nice of you to throw up the country which has completely wiped all others from existence in their land.
  
  Excellent spin!
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  Abhaque Supanjangposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ASH-HADU ALLAA-ILAA HA ILLALLAAHU , WA ASH-HADU ANNA MUHAMMADARRASUULULLAH..!
  Arabic is a noble land, especiall Makkatul Mukarromah. Allah has predestined, no cofeeroon (non-believers) may stay there. Makkah is a holy land, Allah only let the holy ones to enter that city....!
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  pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and who are the holy ones??..in 2008 police arrested 56,455 people, and seized 577 cars and 3,727 motorbikes. Last year, 68,317 people were arrested, and 966 cars and 5,487 motorbikes were seized ...this is crime stats of makka...so guess holy doesnot apply out here...
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Momo and allah slaughtered the inhabitants of that land and instituted full Islamic Law per allah and Momo's whims. So go sling that on someone who does not know all about your allah and supposed prophet.
  
  A very complete and accurate account reads, and is linked below...
  
  To say there is not compulsion in Religion is to make a liar out of your prophet... which he is anyway, but this proves it...
  
  ---"He (Muhammad) said: "Woe to you, Abu Sufyan, isn't it time that you recognize that I am God's apostle?" He answered, "As to that I still have some doubt." I (Abbas) said to him, "Submit and testify that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is the apostle of God before you lose your head," so he did so. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, p. 547)"----
  
  ............
  
  Battles For Arabia...
  
  These battles were not self-defence, they were offensive battles whose aim was to spread the Islamic empire and the rule of Muhammad. This was missionary warfare and violent jihad.
  
  Throughout this period of warfare, Muhammad's teaching was still very important. He inspired his soldiers to fight with the promise of paradise. For those who fought there was the promise of forgiveness, status, virgins, expensive clothes, watered gardens with abundant fruit, rivers of wine, milk and honey, slave boys and beautiful houses. Consider these verses from the Qur'an:
  
  O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success. (Qur'an 61:10-12, Al-Hilali & Khan)
  
  This is the similitude of Paradise which the godfearing have been promised: therein are rivers of water unstaling, rivers of milk unchanging in flavour, and rivers of wine -- a delight to the drinkers, rivers, too, of honey purified; and therein for them is every fruit, and forgiveness from their Lord (Qur'an 47:15, Arberry)
  
  Lo! those who kept their duty will be in a place secure amid gardens and water-springs, attired in silk and silk embroidery, facing one another. Even so (it will be). And we shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes. (Qur'an 44:51-54, Pickthall)
  
  Surely for the godfearing awaits a place of security, gardens and vineyards and maidens with swelling breasts, like of age, and a cup overflowing. (Qur'an 78:31-33, Arberry)
  
  Perfectly We formed them, perfect, and We made them spotless virgins, chastely amorous, like of age for the Companions of the Right. (Qur'an 56:34-35, Arberry)
  
  And there go round, waiting on them menservants of their own, as they were hidden pearls. (Qur'an 52:24, Pickthall)
  
  There wait on them immortal youths. (Qur'an 56:17, 76:19, Pickthall)
  
  Those Muslims who did not fight for Muhammad were not equal in status to those who did: ----(thus the praise upon all Muslims lips for the Muhajideen)----
  
  http://www.answering-islam.org/Green/spread.htm
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  Abhaque Supanjangposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is no proof for all what you say. No other religion manage to stay in Arab land for Allah bless that land, and all false doctrines coming to that land are rejected by all people in that land. You deserve to be frustrated because of this condition. Until the doomsday, there will no coofeeroon manage to touch Makkatul Mukarramah. Allah has guarantted that matter.
  Allahu Akbar....!
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  LeanManposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Have just spent three years there and met more hypocrites and self centered drug taking, women chasing, objectionable drunks in that time than in any other country in the world!!!! I am not talking about the expats working there I am talking about the locals!!!
  If these are the people of the prophet then he better pop back and sort them out!!
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Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago
It just goes to show you how confused people can be, and how far they can be lead in the wrong direction.

Personally I wouldn't call these Muslims, I would call them Jihadists... For me there is a difference.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well for all our sake I wish that were true. That they weren't real Muslim.
  
  but I do not believe it to be...
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  OregonWinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that this is horrible, but we should be careful about labeling EVERYONE with a certain belief system. Are all Catholics pedophiles?
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hopefully not,... but would you trust a priest again in the same blind fashion as before that scandel.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The extremists is the more appropriate word.
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ncmonroe1981posted 14 years ago
This is not the truth of Islam, and the fact that you would say that it is merely points out your lack of understanding.

In every religion there are zealots who twist their religion's teachings, and who directly go against the teachings of their god by spreading fear, violence, torture, and death. This is true for Christians, Muslims, Jews, and any other religious group you can think of. The fact that a group of people do these things, does not in any way change what the ACTUAL teachings of the religion are.

The fact of the matter is that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam share the same roots. If you ACTUALLY want to understand something about Islam, read the Qu'ran, and get to know some people who practice.

There are plenty of videos that Muslims (or anyone) could post showing the kind of blasphemous and dangerous indoctrination that Christian children receive.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Go learn something about Islam. You don't have a clue. And show me the Christian indoctrination that is equal to this. That is an absurd thing to do, trying to equalize that to Christianity indoctrinating a kid. you don't know a thing about Christianity if that is what you think, or as I said Islam.
  
  And I have read the Qu'ran and a'Hadith lady many times, so why dont you go read it. In the correct format, not the one they sell you.
  
  But you don't even have a clue the Qu'ran you buy is falsely put together. HA Get real.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you had read the Qu'ran as you say, you know that the one who isn't real is you .
  Or maybe you don't have the understanding ?.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. You don't have a clue. Did you even read the Qu'ran once in your life? How anout the hadith. you know you cannot understand the Qu'ran without the example of the prophet. And in Islam you wouldn't have the right to speak as you do to men. Not without a slap in the head when you did. that is a fact.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I've read the Qu'ran as well as the Bible, the Bhagavad Ghita, The Torah and the Zohar,among other religious texts.
  So ?
  I guess muslims in Argentina are very different then,from the ones you know. I doubt you know muslims well.
  Anyway....
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  OregonWinoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The book upon which doctrine is based is irrelevant. it is how leaders today interpret those teachings and apply them to the modern world that matter. I agree that Islam is a religion of peace..HOWEVER, no other organized religion with control of COUNTYS such as Iran promote such intolerance of others and actually encourage and justify murder. Christians did that during the Crusades...Jews, never did it...
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree, but I will not comment. I'm too tired to begin an argument.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Jews did it too. They commited Genocide more than once in the old testament.
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "encourage and justify murder. Christians did that during the Crusades...Jews, never did it..."
  
  Oh yes they did!! During MY lifetime!!
  Operation Cast Lead, the Freedom Flotilla, and the 60 year miltary occupation of Gaza. Not to mention, some Jewish kids writing scripture verses on bombs meant for Palestine.
  That encourages, promotes and GLORIFIES killing!
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  ncmonroe1981posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL If you have done these things, and still believe that this video and group of people represent the whole of Islam, then I need say nothing more, because it's obvious who doesn't know what they're talking about.
  
  If you think that zealous Christians are not into violent indoctrination, just do some research about who invented the most well-known torture devices in the world. Unfortunately, we don't have any videos of that time, but there's plenty of history. Look up the Children's Crusade. Would you call that the truth of Christianity?
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thats the best example you know, hundreds of years ago. As I stated to begin with, go learn the Qu'ran and Hadith. then come see me.
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  ncmonroe1981posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, it's merely the first one that comes to mind, and I really don't have time to teach you the entire sordid history of the Christian church, which, by the way, would make your video look like a Disney movie.
  
  I know quite enough about both of those, thank you, and I have Muslim friends and co-workers. They're not psychotic zealots trying to behead people who don't agree with them. Nor, I would argue, are the majority of Islamic people.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  UMHUM ya sure.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ..."I have Muslim friends and co-workers. They're not psychotic zealots trying to behead people who don't agree with them."
  
  ....and if they actually controlled the hotheads who are psychotic zealots trying to behead people then we may have grounds for seeing an amicable co existence, however they are NOT speaking out against these psychotic zealots trying to behead people, for fear of reprisals, and these psychotic zealots trying to behead people are the ones taking over mosques and teaching the young men that being psychotic zealots trying to behead people is the correct and ONLY way to follow their god.
  
  Christians (and I don't mean token Christians, I mean Holy Spirit filled believers) don't have a problem with co existence with anybody, neither do the Jews, as long as people leave them alone and don't try to 'push them into the sea' they will be peaceable.
  
  I have never seen any news headline where Christians went and burnt down a mosque having locked all the women and children inside, whilst hacking the men to death outside...
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ...and I have no need to be concerned with what the Crusaders did in the name of Christ, they were NOT Christians, because Christians OBEY His commands, and Christ NEVER commanded anyone to use force or to take lands by the sword.
  
  'Dust your feet' is what I remember...
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "In every religion there are zealots who twist their religion's teachings, and who directly go against the teachings of their god by spreading fear, violence, torture, and death."
  
  Care to qualify this in regard to the Christian faith?
  
  I don't recall any Christians teaching their children to behead folk, and I am quite sure that if that ever happened, it would be blasted all over every media outlet in the world.
  
  In reality, most zealots cause problems for non zealots by trying to enforce the teachings of their god or sacred books, rather than 'twist' them.
  
  The Quran is clearly NOT written by the same author as the Torah and the Bible is.
  
  It does contain ALL of the texts that enable the fundy Muslims to justify their murderous and barbaric attacks on 'infidels' and moderate (as in luke warm) Muslims at will.
  
  The avowed aim of Islam is to conquerer the world by force if need be, and institute Sharia law.
  
  Now tell me where these things fit into the Torah and the Christian bible, how they concur or even could be said to fit in with what those book state.
  
  One of the BIGGIST lies at this moment in time is to say Islam is no threat to the western way of life.
  
  It is, and if the Muslim 'street' ever get their way, the cosy liberal intellectual philosophy's that try to delude the public will be silenced by whatever means and ALL of us on this forum would be in submission or dead, and probably headless.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Those "ZEALOTS" are the only ones practicing true Islam as practiced by the prophet. So that is the way of it. that is ISLAM
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yup I agree. Well said.
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  ncmonroe1981posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So far, the proof suggests that the Christian church has had more success keeping the people of the world in submission or killing them.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your lost.
  
  History shows that Christianity in its existence, has grown and learned from its past abuses and horrors.
  
  The same cannot be said of ISLAM. Again, go learn some history.
  
  Not the liberal hate America and Christianity, history.
  
  But real history.
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  ncmonroe1981posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Check this out: http://www.yale.edu/faith/downloads/x_volf_violence.pdf
  
  You'll probably hate it, but then sometimes the truth hurts.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yale,... hahaha. One of the greatest Liberal Bastions of thought in the world. We'll get the truth there alright. Please.
  
  And I don't need to go to someone else to tell me about Islam. Momo, Mohhammud, the prophet, states it plainly enough in the Qu'ran and exemplifies it in the Sunnah and hadith.
  
  And again you equated that video, with things you could show, or see today in regards to christian indoctrination of the kids. And that it would be as bad as that?...
  
  That is a lie.
  
  Doesn't happen in today's Christianity.
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  ncmonroe1981posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL See? I knew you'd hate it. *shrug* That doesn't make it any less valid.
  
  "The light shineth into the darkness, but the darkness comprehendeth it not." You should read things before you judge them.
  
  Have a Merry Christmas, and a great evening!
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK, so far I am on page 15 of the study, and I have not found anything I disagree with, though I suspect we may be reading it though differing filters.
  
  One quote:
  
  "Beginning at least with Constantine’s conversion, the followers of the Crucified have perpetrated gruesome acts of violence under the sign of the cross.
  
  Over the centuries, the seasons of Lent and Holy Week were for the Jews a time of fear and trepidation; Christians have perpetrated some of the worst pogroms as they remembered the crucifixion of Christ for which they blamed the Jews. Muslims too associate the cross with violence; crusaders’ rampages were undertaken under the sign of the cross.
  
  However, an unbiased reading of the story of Jesus Christ gives no warrant for such perpetration of violence."
  
  The last sentence shows the truth.
  
  I warrant that IF all Muslims were to agree to adhere to the words of Christ, no further suicide bombings or beheading would be happening, and conversely if all Christians were forced to adhere to the words of the Quran, violence would prevail.
  
  Let me explain my understanding of what Christian needs to do to be called a believer in Christ:
  
  First, read the Word of God.
  
  Second, consume the Word of God until it consumes you.
  
  Third believe the Word of God.
  
  Fourth, act on the Word.
  
  The above came from the mouth of Smith Wigglesworth and I quote them in my hub "With all of my heart"... which also defines what I believe Christians should be observing.
  
  Apart from that:
  
  Be filled with the Holy Spirit.
  Obey Christs' commands.
  Always either bless or receive the blessing from all that you meet.
  Matthew 25 in it's entirety.
  Preach the gospel in season and out of season.
  Check all things against scripture (be a Berean).
  Watch and pray to be accounted worthy.
  Understand that our battle is not against flesh and blood... but ... read Ephesians 6....
  Don't judge, leave it to God.
  
  There are obviously other aspects I would also consider relevant, but those would be a minimum need to see someone observing to say they were a disciple of Christ.
  
  Constantine was someone who seized the opportunity to kidnap the name of Christ and create a false religion from it, I bear no responsibility or affiliation to any of the acts carried out in those circumstances.
  
  I came to faith 17 years ago, I will accept any argument since then, but as for Constantine, all the Popes, Luther, Calvin and the rest, I have no link to them, my 'bloodline' is found in the remnant who have been hidden in the wider 'church' since it started and especially since it was hijacked and corrupted.
  
  Those remnant have been frequently declared heretical and often killed for their intransigent holding to the words of Christ and refusal to bow the knee to traditional orthodox religion, and probably will be again in my lifetime, but they carry the torch of the testimony, and pass it to those who will take it from them. Sometimes that torch has rested where those who carried it were killed, and needed to be found again, but it has been kept alight by God, and the remnant have always been shown where it lies.
  
  It will burn until it is handed back to Christ on His return.
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know about Sharia Law but ask any Muslim her or far what the intentions are of the Koran and they will tell you with a smile on their face that their aim is to make the entire world submit to their laws.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exaclty.
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  muslima61posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Alhamdulillah, well spoken... it is a shame for Islam that the few crazy poorly educated fundamentalists have given such a terrible reputation to what is fundamentally a very peaceful way of life.
  
  As you know we can all find terrible photos and videos of people muslim, christian jewish..... etc of all faiths and nationalities doing atrocious acts to other human beings, but we should not be so quick to tar everyone with the same brush....
  
  As you have said and i applaud you for your statement, everyone should read and educate themselves fully before making judgemental statements.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Well this is what the good books say.
Quoran.
Qur’an 4.89 They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Bible.
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Can you see where it may have come from?
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dude earnest. If your still following the old testament then you are lost.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't follow any of it.
  Would you prefer I quoted the watered down hate in the new testament? How do you follow the bible or quoran? Do you rip the old parts you don't like out?
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TMMasonposted 14 years ago
The Qu'ran I read in the correct Chronological order to begin with. because there are tricks to reading it.

But I will clearify them for you.

1- You must take into consideration the, "Law Of Abrogation", or, "Naskh" = Obliteration, or "to obliterate". That entails knowing the chronological history of the Qu'ran itself. To know which Surah over-rides, or obliterates another, (others), of the former Surahs. Also, whether or not that instance of abrogation over-rides a specific, or general verse, or former command or commands.

No,... one does not have to be a Professor of the History Of Islam itself. You simply have to know where to look. I will give you the most, in my opinion, accurate historical order of the Surahs, "chapters within the Qu'ran", and a couple of sources to verify this information. And of course the Qu'ran itself speaks volumes in regards to the psychology of Islam itself. Which one could rightly define as, "Tribal".

After all, it was written in the 7th century A.D. by an Arabic Patriarch in a very misogynistic time period. "Tribal", is used here not in a derogatory way, but as a classification for psychological definition, and way of life. A Mentality. (T.M.)

Here is the Chronological order as set by Noeldeke through diligent research into the original sources of Islam.

Chronologically, Noeldeke divides the Qu'ran into the first period in Mecca,... 96, 74, 111, 106, 108, 104, 107, 102,105, 92, 90, 94, 93, 97, 86, 91, 80, 68, 87, 95 103, 85, 73, 101, 99, 82, 81, 53, 84, 100, 79, 77, 78, 88, 89, 75, 83, 69, 51, 52,56,70, 55, 112, 109, 113, 114, 1.

The Middle Period In Mecca,... 54, 37, 71, 76, 44, 50, 20, 26, 15, 19, 8, 36, 43, 72, 67, 23, 21, 25, 17, 27, 18.

The Late Period in Mecca,... 32, 41, 45, 16, 30, 11, 14, 12, 40, 28, 39, 29, 31, 42, 10, 34, 35, 7, 46, 6, 13.

And in Al'Madina2, 98, 64, 62, 8, 47, 3, 61, 57, 4, 65, 59, 33, 63, 24, 58, 22, 48, 68, 60, 110, 49, 9, 5.

This information is by Noeldke, and there is readily available source material within his work and the work of, William St.Clair Tisdall, in his work, "The Original Sources of the Qu'ran", London 1905.

And yes I am a Christian Earnest. I follow the Laws Christ set forth for us.

1 Love all, as he has loved us,

2 Love no other, above the Lord your God.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Yes I know how the quoran is read softly, and the bible too.
Both branches of the one religion, both trying to lie about the meaning of the clearly written text to mean something more "acceptable" than all the killing and hate coming from patently psychotic minds that fill both.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are so deluded Earnest, but I like that about ya. Do you actually believe half of what you say?
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh come on earnest, show me one section of Christ's gospel that allows for killing, not from the Torah, but from the new covenant.
  
  Peter got chewed out for lopping of the soldiers ear when Christ was arrested, and Christ restored the ear on the spot.
  
  The disciples were told to not take a sword with them when they went to spread the gospel.
  
  I know you hate the bible, but please don't just attack it for the sake of attacking, your jibes don't wash with those who know the book, and you won't inflame believers by ranting.
  
  You have rejected the bible, that's fine, but for the rest of us who are actually quite content with the bible we have, warts and all, let us live with our belief and if you want to win souls for non belief, do it with your demonstrations about how well you live your life.
  
  You are worth more than cheap jibes made in anger.
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  C.V.Rajanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Scriptures contain both sand sugar mixed. Wise people should seggregate the sugar from the sand and discard the sand" -- Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.
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ncmonroe1981posted 14 years ago
the above post turned out messed up, my comments are interspersed in the quote. Sorry.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's OK. I do that sometimes also....
  
  Fine your text illustrates that you do not believe the bible or the words of Christ, so we know that you are not (by Christ's standards) a believer, which is also fine, but as such you cannot have been Holy Spirit filled.
  
  (Correct me if you are and I am wrong)
  
  Your 'understanding' of the bible will therefore be limited to the extent of your worldly education, which I see is extensive, and I do not doubt your intelligence or learning abilities....but the bible is a book which speaks differently to those who have been Spirit filled, than to those who have not.
  
  It's about 3.30am where I am, and I must away to bed soon, but I have seen you on the forums a lot, so I have no doubt we will meet another time to discuss further matters.
  
  Timothy 3:7
  
  ....always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
  
  May well sum up the situation.
  
  John
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  ncmonroe1981posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your compliments!
  
  If you look back over my posts, and you will see I have not spoken about the truths of the Bible; I have spoken about the Christian religion as people have lived it throughout history. Believe it or not, I do believe what the Bible has to say, and I believe in Jesus and his sacrifice. I am capable of reading the Bible in both of its original languages (at least with help), and I contend I understand quite a lot of it. It is because I understand what the Bible says that I detest the *human* Christian church, I loathe the rantings of intolerance, and I abhor ignorance. I'm sure you're not a big fan of violence, hatred, and stupidity either.
  
  The subject at hand is not what the Bible ACTUALLY says (I agree, the message of Christ certainly does NOT espouse any kind of violence). The subject at hand is what people who call themselves Christians, and who have formed the modern *human* so-called Christian church, have done "in the name of God." It cannot be denied that the people of the *human* Christian church have committed (and still do commit) atrocities. The Christian faith as it has been practiced throughout history is a different thing from Christ's teachings.
  
  My original point was that there are zealots from each religion. These zealots DO NOT understand the true meaning of their religion, nor the messages of their messiahs, and yet through violence it is their messages that are overwhelmingly heard around the world. A lot of believers would like to think that the "Christian" church is exempt from this fact, when in reality, it is one of the worst for intolerant zealots, historically speaking. Whether we agree with what is written in the Bible or not, the fact is that leaders of the "Christian" church have acted exactly the opposite of how God wants His people to act, is undeniable.
  
  I hope you have a good evening! It's been good chatting, and I'll see you around.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Only in religion can you find books where the followers have to deny the written words in order to keep their belief intact in the face of new knowledge!
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not so, Stephen Hawkins spent the whole first part of ¡History of Time' explaining why ALL the previous scientists were wrong, before he started to explain why he alone was right.... at least until the next bright young scientist comes along to refute Hawkins's theories.
  
  The double edged sword cuts both ways...
  
  John
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes he did. hahaha
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes he did, but that has little to do with the subject matter does it?
  religionists are still frantic to squib their own words, whereas that is not the case here, You are speaking of the author not the book's followers, who will move with the scientific method. Religionists are stuck in a time warp.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not so, I'm constantly moving with the will of God and get updates and revisions all the time, and the bible will speak to me differently when I seek understanding about something even when reading the same verses as I read maybe years earlier.
  
  The fact is that Gods word is unchanging, but how He speaks to you through it is ever changing to meet the requirements of your situation.
  
  It's a living word and it will answer any question that pertains to what I should do or say, and will direct me to the correct answer to any situation.
  
  But (OBVIOUSLY) if one does not believe the word, it's just a book of old words written years ago.
  
  You gave Deborah your birth date and a commendation when she gave you a numerology reading that you felt was accurate, so you will trust things that you cannot understand, and believe them if they tell you what you want.
  
  Where do you think she got that 'insight' from? - I mean somebody worked out the numerology system to enable her to forecast your next years events, and tell you what last year held for you....there was SOME power at work there that I doubt you could quantify with science...
  
  Whatever your complaint against God is, don't let it cloud your judgement.
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  B52 Bomberposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That type of activity is forbidden in the bible Aqua.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi B52, I'm well aware of that, but earnest is NOT a believer and I am asking WHERE the 'power' comes from, not suggesting that it comes from Gods, because if you have read Deuteronomy 18:10-14 you know it's not Gods will that we consult these things:
  
  For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you.
  
  But thanks for pulling me on this as I obviously did not make it clear where I was coming from.
  
  John
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TMMasonposted 14 years ago
"Sure! Check out my answers to TMMAson. If you think the Christian religion is guilt-free, you need to learn some history."

What answers, the Crusades and the inquisition?

You haven't produced any recent beheadings or mass murders in the name of Christ yet?

So what answers?
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TMMasonposted 14 years ago
Where is the equally bad indoctrination of the youth on Christianity's side.

Can't produce it huh?

Thats okay.

And again. Go read the Qu'ran correctly, then speak to me about it. And don't foget the Al'Hadith.

But you should know that, being so well versed in Islam.
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  mikelongposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To begin with, anyone who isolates "Christianity", "Islam", "Judaism", or any other concept into some kind of whole is following a deluded path. No such singularities exist.
  
  Islam ranges from the esoteric Sufism to the four legal schools, with many different aspects of each being manifested in diverse places.
  
  Christian ideology and faith is based on both the Old and New Testaments for many Protestant sects, while only the the New is used for others...and then there are those who don't really use the Bible at all.... There is no set birth date of this "Christ", no core, unified system of worship or beliefs...
  The Christianity I was raised with differs from that of Pentacostals, Lutherans, Roman Catholics, Armenian Orthodox, Baptists, and Adventists...and all of these are different from one another.
  
  I tutor an Iranian-American youth who is also a Muslim. He attends a private-Presbyterian school nearby. While his teachers are careful to speak because of his presence, the perspectives of the class around him are biased against his faith, and still project Muslims as inherently violent, and link Muhammed to the "false prophet" imagery of the book of Revelations.
  
  I consider those youth to be in an indoctrination program.
  
  There is also a documentary that was filmed called "Jesus Camp." The link is here:
  
  http://www.freedocumentaries.org/int.php?filmID=226
  
  Without the theatrics found in this video, I was raised to believe that my sect of Christianity was the only true message, and that I had to shut my mind off to the ideas of outsiders.....I can't think of any Christian sect that I've come across since that doesn't have that perspective blatantly or covertly.
  
  I came home from the Marines in 2003, and shortly after returning I found myself in a mall in Glendale, California.
  
  I woman walked up to me and started talking about a "young-person" conference that was going to be happening that weekend.
  
  I asked her specifically, and repeatedly, if this meeting had anything to do with religion or a religious organization, and she assured me continuously that no church or entity of the like was involved. I was curious, so decided to go.
  
  When they came to pick me up (the woman came with another man that Sunday morning), they didn't like my casual attire, and wanted me to put on a shirt and tie.
  
  I again asked if there was any "Christian" hook or angle to this meeting, and both of them answered as before....
  
  I was beginning to get agitated with this whole situation, and refused to change...they made a phone call and then told me that everything would be fine and not to worry. So, we left.
  
  Long story short....after all the frustation and lies they were taking me to their church...
  
  Yes, the building itself was a former boxing arena, but inside of it resides a church.
  
  Inside I witnessed a mostly Spanish speaking audience, most of older age, stamp their feet and clap their hands as the ministers told them about the money their parishoners would have to give them in order to fly their ministerial brothers around the country.
  
  I took off the tie that they had waiting for me at the church/arena door and walked out.......I refused to stamp my feet and clap...and some of the other churchmembers even stopped doing so too...
  
  All in all, it ended up that they were trying to use my "Marine" image to sway the youth in their congregation.
  
  As I waited to get picked up (I refused their ride home), and while the congregation ate, elder members of the church (white men by the way) kept coming out to try to get me to come with them....
  
  "You were in the Marines...you know how to follow orders, don't you?"
  
  "You wouldn't follow your sergeant's orders?"
  
  My responses:
  
  "Are you my sergeant?"
  
  "How can you profess true faith in God if your core elite of this church are liars and deceivers?"
  
  I know many Muslims, but have yet to be treated with such disrespect, and, basically, stupidity.
  
  Three other notes before this overly long note is finished:
  
  For all that is said in the Quran, remember, Jesus is the most quoted person within it.
  
  Secondly, read "Camp of the Saints" and then think about how this imagery reflects on a Christian (Protestant) base. What does it incite?
  
  Finally, when we think of "Western" philosophy, remember, it was from Arabic spread through the influence of Muslims that the pre-Renaissance "West" would learn of Socrates, Sophocles, Aristotle, of Algebra, and countless other things that have nothing to do with Germannic culture or society, which is largely what Western Europe has evolved from.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "The bottom line in Christian brain-washing is, of course, fear (Cohen's seventh device: "Holy Terror"), which is used only when the believer is well "inside." This fear is grounded in the punishment awaiting Christians who fail to subjugate their human intelligence and will to the wishes of the god-talkers. Cohen asserts that the authors of the New Testament "deliberately contrived the portentous New Testament statements about horrors in the afterlife to be the worst eventualities of which the mind -- or at least the ordinary minds of those who would be rank-and-file believers -- could conceive."
  
  http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/cohen.htm
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
You may note that the hub I replied to did not ask me to believe anything.Deb was not forcing her beliefs on anyone.
What she said could be applied, being honest, I said so, no biggy.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I noticed that earnest, I was not attacking you for your inquiry to her, just making the point that you do have a capacity to accept things that are not scientifically definable.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Whatever your complaint against God is, don't let it cloud your judgement." This does not speak to any issue for me, I have no complaint against any god. I do not believe in one remember?
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  B52 Bomberposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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B52 Bomberposted 14 years ago
Wait until you`re gasping for your last breath Earnest.You`ll believe then.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Nah, already done the white light trip thanks, I don't have your screaming fear of dearh.
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B52 Bomberposted 14 years ago
You`ll leave screaming and blubbering but too late for you.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Been there. No screaming or blathering. Maybe you think your god brought me back to life, but the guys name was Michael.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nice! Just like your imaginary friend!
  This sort of rubbish clogs drains.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank God that Michael was given the skill needed to save your life!
  
  How about writing a hub about your white light experience, it's a good concept and one which would be of interest to many people, including me.
  
  Explain WHY your atheism came about and why it's better for you,(and us?) rather than waste energy trying to refute the irrefutable to those who have 'seen the light' and recognized it as Christ.
  
  Just a suggestion...
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
It is not that I feel any need to go up against religionists, it is that they continue to lie, refuse to acknowledge what is written in their book, only put up science from known religionists and generally "bend" the truth, or pray for me not to go to hell or some other nonsense that I do not tolerate.

I included my 'white light" experience already in a hub.
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  B52 Bomberposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  <personal attacks snipped>
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Lovely to see the real you. You say who you are, nobody needs to say a word.....
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Threats of eternal damnation in hellfire followed by kindergarten insults...
  
  You certainly don't make the notion of becoming a Christian very attractive.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
B52, I respect your beliefs, but it's not for us to judge or condemn others for their beliefs - or lack of. How did Christ treat the tax collectors and prostitutes? Not that I'm saying you're either, Earnest - just sayin'. I believe Jesus wants us to be accepting, tolerant, and kind to others. Our actions speak much more than do our words.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  First off, we don't know who or what B52 actually is, as he or she appears to be a ghost with no hubs, but he is obviously quick to anger, and I would suggest that B52 take a few days off the forum and a deep breath before they return.
  
  Judging from the snipped personal attack (which was unwarranted, but dealt with well by earnest)he or she may have been given a three day break anyway, but if they are reading... write some hubs and let your views be read by all, or if you are just a sock puppet, think twice about using subterfuge to present the gospel.
  
  John
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure he/she's an alter ego. Been messing around in other threads as well.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
And TM's purpose is to try to get everyone to submit to solely his worldview....

Is there identification with the supposed aggressor going on?
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No my purpose is to get people to look at Islam as it is. Not through all the liberal apologists rose colored glasses.
  
  If Islam is so great, then expose the heart of it to the light of day. Lets see it. Thats called being realistic about things. Not submiting to the liberal view, that all is well, all the time, for everything.
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I don't think they are taking a realistic view of what it is.
  
  They haven't made the connection to what the war torn countries have in common. I think that some just don't want to see it for what it is because the reality is actually pretty terrifying.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Friday, September 23, 2005
  Axis of Islam: Verses of Hate
  
  “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Qur’an should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth”
  
  --Omar Ahmed, Chairman of the Board of CAIR (Council of American Islamic Relations), San Ramon Valley Herald, July 1998
  
  Or this.
  These liars shouldn’t let the Infidels access their war manuals! It is important to remember Mohammad had revelations depending on what was happening. For example, when not everyone was eager to do jihad, he would announce new revelations telling them Allah was pissed at them and would punish them. There are literally hundreds of verses in the Qur’an and Hadiths that are hate filled and vile. Literally too many to list them all as they would fill a book. They already do anyway, it's the Qur'an.
  
  Source Friday, September 23, 2005
  Axis of Islam: Verses of Hate
  Do you want the individual phrases of hate as well?
  
  Source Friday, September 23, 2005
  Axis of Islam: Verses of Hate
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  mikelongposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Liberal" view......people keep talking about this...how ridiculous..
  
  Reality is that people professing Christianity perform acts of horrific violence and terrorism, as have those professing Islam...both behaviors are of the same spirit.....the intolerant....the groups who use bullying and fear to control over discourse and reason.....
  
  I am not "liberal"....I just know many Muslims.....I have studied independently various aspects of religious thought and law.....
  
  I want to play your game for you real quick and see if you can catch on to this....
  
  Now, I am going to first imagine Christianity....
  
  I know that, as opposed to an abstract thought or ideal, there is no one such entity, but for the sake of this exercise...what the heck...I'll pick Castillian Spain in the 15th and 16th centuries....
  
  Now, their version of Christianity will become the archetype for all.....
  
  1) How fair/correct is that?
  
  With that said.....the Church provided the religious justification for social and economic rule.....
  
  According to the society of that time, women do not exist as individuals. As Eve, they are solely the attachments of either their father, their husbands, or their husband's family.
  
  Let us say that we are women...for it is important to break out of our own selves in order to feel and understand this......
  
  We are married to, fortunate for us, a landed-elite. Now, that assumes that we ourselves are from elite stock...otherwise our lifestories are considered completely irrelevant...
  
  Now..we have wealth through our families, from marriage, and also through our own parentage...
  
  When Father dies....when husband dies we get nothing. We actually would be required to be married to someone else...say husband's brother, or some other male family member? It really doesn't matter because you have no choice...you have no voice....you are property...and like good women in the Bible ("the Bible"...who collected these stories?) she has to shut her mouth, bow her head, and do her womanly duties.
  
  No inheritance.....no independent role at all.... This is the Bible.
  
  This is Christianity.....
  
  2) Does this, to your mind TM accurately reflect how Christian societies around the world think, deep down when there is no separation between church and state?
  
  To finish my point, Muhammad's own wife was a personally wealthy widower... Women have status in the Quran, and in traditional, pre-Islamic culture in the Hejaz....
  
  Women can share in inheritance just as men, though not equally. It is the critical support of Muhammad's wife that really enabled him to spend the time to obtain his calling...if we are to believe the recorded histories....
  
  Christianity and Islam have both been used by elite forces to break down societies, and to establish control.
  
  From American missionaries running through the Ottoman Empire in the 19th and early 20th centuries to their Spanish counterparts erecting churches atop the ruins of the temples of the conquered in the Americas and Asia (and elsewhere) Christianity was spread to subdue peoples and affirm status for the new colonial elite....
  
  When Roman Catholic bishops were sent out to Clovis and Aethelbert they were establishing political linkages that would build a political and military foundation to protect the Roman elites and the lands they stored away under the guise of Church.
  
  simple terms....they wanted control.
  
  Islam was the first force to unite otherwise segmented Arabic-speaking people. As the Romans and Greeks before them, elites used the uniting force of Islam to control one of the most important economic points on the planet, the passage of the Silk Road from Asia into Europe...
  
  As Christian armies during the Crusades, armies led by Arab-elites (the Arab wealthy jumped into Islam just as their Latin and Greek counterparts did into Christianity) treated those who stood in their path harshly....at least sometimes...but definitely not all the time.
  
  Armenia is an interesting historical petri dish....Now, the region had been split between the Romans and Parthian Persians in the late centuries BCE/early centuries CE (sorry I don't have it off the top of my head anymore). Armenians were Christian on both sides of this border.
  
  Their version of Christianity was different from Rome's, which put them in great conflict with the imperial power.
  
  The Parthian, and later Sassanian rulers were Zoroastrian, as Armenians originally were before conversion to Christianity.
  Some rulers were cruel, and would put Christians to death and destroy their churches, while others would be leniant, and let the clergy elect their leaders, perform sacraments, and collect tithes.
  
  When Muslim rule replaced the Zoroastrian and relieved the pressure of the Roman Catholic, Armenian Orthodox Christians were given great flexibility. They were not forced to convert, and as long as they paid their taxes and obeyed the laws they were fine. For long periods, before Turkic peoples entered Asia minor, Armenian elites even regained long lost autonomy. Though neighboring Muslims, and though even ruled by them, they were never forced to convert themselves, and held economic niches that enabled them great success until the Genocide.
  
  The Armenian Genocide, while reflecting Muslim hostility towards Christians, it is actually the hostility of American and Western European missionaries towards Armenian and Greek Orthodox communities within the Ottoman Empire that created this mess....I'll have to write more in a hub about this...
  
  My view is not liberal.........I think it just realizes the larger reality that others can tend to overlook, either because they don't know or because it doesn't suit their purposes.....
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  wow, someone remembers this?! my great-grandmother is in the history books for this. All but one of her 8 children beheaded on her lap and she herself. To this point, the man who hid her youngest son was of the Muslim. Hiding him in straw and dung. Else, I would not be here today...[/i]
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well writtten and consice summary in my view. I agree with all those things I knew of here, and will educate myself more on the Spanish and the Ottoman Empire. Thank you for the assembled information.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Islam is what it is. Whether you believe it or not E. Islam speaks plainly for itself and you guys are argueing its own word in regards to itself.
  
  I let the Qu'ran and hadith speak for Islam as they should.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It;s called projection.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If its wrong, prove it.
  
  You all say alot in defense of Islam.
  
  But none of you have produced any proof, Qu'ranic, Hadith, or otherwise.
  
  You even have the proper chronology for it now, it should be easy.
  
  To dis-prove what I have said should be a breeze if you all know its wrong and why its wrong.
  
  Huh... even the Muslim coudn't, and didn't. They know what Islam is about and connot defend it.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am so glad you are an 'expert' on the quoran. Now we can all be experts from the same page you lifted your original rant from, displaying your great knowledge of the quoran.
  
  http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 567187.ece
  Keep it honest!
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  404 Error
  The page could not be loaded.
  
  If you have typed the URL in by hand then please make sure you have entered it correctly.
  
  Alternatively, if you have come from a link within the site and found this page, please click on the link below to register a technical problem that we will correct as soon as possible!
  
  Or select the back to the Times Online link to return to the Times Online homepage.
  
  Register technical problem
  Back to the Times Online
  
  Thats your link?... What the hell are you talking about E? Again no proof just BS. The above is fact,... that is all there is too it.
  
  2 I don't read the times online,... niether New york nor London.
  
  But if your talking about the children, the link takes you too the story. So whats your point?
  
  Man facts E, facts.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I will find it again!
  I speak the truth, and as you probably already knew, the link stopped at the Timesonline front door. No matter, I will find it.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dude I told you i don't read the time... what are you refferring to in my post. if it is cut in I'll tell you where you can see it. Most likely in one of my hubs, but i will see. So what is it?...
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well you won't need to see where it came from then?
  This one should work!
  http://www.mostmerciful.com/abrogation- … tution.htm
  
  Word for word right?
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually the part your talking about is from answering islam.com
  
  It is all general information in regards to abrogation, E.
  
  It is common knowlege in Islam and anyone who really looks at Islam. If you want to find more on it, there is alot more on my hubs, including links and other info.
  
  That is where the part your lookin at is from, and it simply echoes what I have been telling you. The Qu'ran as it is formatted is not correct. Wow imagine that, and you found your own link to prove it to yourself. WOW
  
  So what? you want the link, here. Siple answer. Not cheat'n here, the links are on my page, as I said.
  
  http://answering-islam.org/Index/A/abrogation.html
  
  Theres that one?... You want more I have plenty for you to study if you want them. Islamic Scholars and Juris Doctrate of Shari'a all agree abrogation is in the Qu'ran.
  
  Here is another good resource,...
  
  http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/
  
  So whats your overall point here?
  
  I cut in a lil knowledge for you guys?
  
  Man you like to attack, but still no facts. Your pointing me to links that prove my point. Man your lost.
  
  Again read my hubs, lots of info in them, and plenty of links to make you happy.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Geeze wake up! I have never once tried to support the quoran or your bible!!!! You will have to read every comment I have ever made to see that?
  Some religionists avoid the hate filled bits by having the 'old testament' disregarded selectively otherwise the two are the same hate filled tomes written by psychotic ignorant old homophobes. Today we call the "wowsers"
  
  You don't even recognise when part of what you are saying is supported! Wot is this mentality? I disagree with Ernests, so no matter what he says I will disagree, even if it means I disagree with myself?
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  E. I said your pointing me to things which support my view.
  
  I did not say you supported it.
  
  I did state you defend it.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well I dont! You ask others to read your hubs, but you obviously do not read theirs!
  I thought somewhere you claimed to have read my hub "The biblical god is a Psychopath?" Sorry I must have been wrong.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't ever asked anyone to read my hubs. I do not promote them in the topics as the rules said not to. So?...
  
  I wouldn't ask someone to read them, if you want to read them go ahead. I was just letting you know the info came from there is all.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Projection works like this. You get a fundamentalist belief system that is almost identical, then find all the hate and horror in it's tome while ignoring the same thing in your own beliefs.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't ignore the history of Christianity. But there is nothing in the New testament which preacher hatred or murder, unlike Islam.
  
  That is just a fact. Your inability to accept does not bother me nor does it concern me. not once have I attempted to prosylitize to anyone.
  
  But I will not lie about Islam to mollify your PC conscience.
  
  I won't,... NOT let Islam tell you the truth about itself.
  
  I cannot help it if it is an indefensable idiology of hatred, rape and slavery.
  
  And think about this fact while you read your Qu'ran seeking to defend the indefensable.
  
  According to some Muslim commentators, more than 260 verses of the Quran have been abrogated. Others concede only 5 verses while others deny there is any abrogation. Thus, there is no general agreement as to what all the abrogated verses are. This can become a point of confusion as sometimes, these abrogated verses deals with matters of life and death. For example, most scholars believe that the stoning verse for adultery for married persons, which was once in the Qur'an, has been abrogated from recitation, but remains in effect in the Sharia.
  
  The issue of abrogation is a very serious problem for the Qur'an and its claims for two reasons:
  
  1. If the Qur'an is the actual Word of God, then it is eternal and, is thus incapable of change. The abrogation problem suggests that the Qur'an was created, and cannot be the uncreated Word of God.
  
  2. If the Qur'an is the Word of God, it should be perfect and no verse can be superior to another.
  
  accusation of invention when a verse is replaced by another, an-Nahl 16:101.
  
  Allah removes what he wills, ar-Ra`d 13:39.
  
  brings one better or similar to replace it, al-Baqarah 2:106.
  This verse can cause quite a consternation. In the case of the Stoning Verse for example, there was no replacement (better or not). Neither was there any replacement for the Missing Bismillah, the Ibn Adam Verse, the Suckling Verse or the "Pleasing" Verse.
  
  forgotten, al-A`la 87:6-7.
  
  God can withdraw any revelation, Bani Isra'il 17:86.
  
  Every instance of abrogation is a problem for the doctrine of an unchanging God and should equally trouble thinking Muslims. For non-Muslims, however, the changing commands regarding the use of violence against non-believers are certainly the most relevant:
  
  Yup!!
  
  Thats why I know anyone who has read the Qu'ran without this knowledge, does not know islam, and does not understand anything about Islam
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Madame Xposted 14 years ago
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  errum fattahposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  REALITTY ABT MADAME X'S FALSE PIC POSTED; madame X u should b shamed for this..this is not true 100% false..anybody can make this kindda foolish, shamefull thing in computer by themselves the reality of this picture is that this irani politician was visiting a school n he talks with that boy AND shaked hand...really shamefull thing u had [posted..juz watch ur popes who r always doing sexes and rapping all the time..n watch around ur people man doing sex with man n woman doing sex with women..its reality in ur people...really shame on u..
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just look at the "love" and "unity" your supposed 2 loving religions cause when in reality they only cause hate and separation. Pray on that.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To me the word religion should be defined as a governmental type system of regulating Faith in God.
  The members of a particular denomination make up that institution but are not "THE" institution.
  Man made institutions are corrupt. That simple.
  
  I don't think that any of us can adequately express all of what we think and believe. This inability also causes many problems. Sometimes we are expressing the same feelings but doing so from a diffrent prospective.
  We then argue over the way that we are expressing "Our Truth"
  though we are in reality saying the same things.
  
  If you are looking at my house from the west, you would argue that there are no windows on my house. I, looking from the south will argue that there are lots of windows.
  We would both be correct and wasting a lot of time argueing.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thats some funny shit!
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
now post one from the other side!Those Irish Bishops must have had something going for them from the bible?
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Madame Xposted 14 years ago
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yeah my buddy Mark has that shirt. He is a full blooded Seminole and a proud member of A.I.M.. The American Indian Movement, for anyone doesn't know.
  
  Hes got a few of them, some are hysterical but I can't say them on here.
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TMMasonposted 14 years ago
I guess they took the link down. If anyone wants it just ask and I will send it.
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TMMasonposted 14 years ago
I hit that link of yours 12 time and got 12 errors. You really thought you would get away with that?

Man you don't have to lie to try make me look bad, that is dead.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
the blind throw stones at the deaf.
the deaf curse on the blind because of their affliction.
the Harlet loathes her lover, yet takes his wealth.
So it is with man and their 'beliefs'.

Allah ou Akbar!
El`ohim gadol!
Y`shua Moshiach is Lord!
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
You do not have to deny the truth in the post to keep your hate of Islam, no one is saying Islam is good.
Just read the links that I sent you, we know the koran is full of the same hate as the bible.
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  TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'll read anything you send me.
  
  And I don't deny their are good Muslims. I am Married to one.
  
  But! I know Islam for what it is, and Christianity is no-where near as brutal today as Islam.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you are right, it is certainly very confronting to see children born to be brainwashed into inhuman live weapons to be disposed of for "god" and all the schools that teach this from infancy do not help. Radical Islam is a danger to us all, and Muslims are people I love who are my neighbours and dear friends.
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  mikelongposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It absolutely is....except it is harder to see because it is played on the economic field.
  
  Do the Walton's have religious views? What are they? Who is included in their version of Christianity?
  
  Let us look at the nation that some, many want to "keep Christian", the United States.
  
  Lets speak on the School of the Americas, of the death squads, the kidnapped, "disappeared", murdered labor leaders...let us go to Nigeria, Chiapas, Honduras, Ecuador, let us look at the territories that have become the United States and upon the "Manifest Destiny" that kept the drive alive....every Sunday in sermons across the land...
  
  This still exists...I have seen it.
  
  Let us look at Shell Oil in Nigeria...all the Christians that work for the corporation, who enable it....I can go on for days....
  
  Who is out there, and what are they really doing.
  
  Forget all this other irrelevant nonsense....the plutocracy atop the global plutonomy does not reflect Islam.....but causes more harm than any force this planet has ever seen....
  
  There is a huge, disproportionate Christian weight however.....
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe that America still needs a clear separation of state and church. No child should be spoon fed religion.
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TMMasonposted 14 years ago
As I stated I have a very dear to my heart, Muslima, and would not want anyone to ever harm her for her religion.

But she also see a real and severe danger in the rise of Islamic extremist. she also knows that her religion teaches that. And that jihad is a real priciple that is carried out every day in this world.

It is still a driving force in Islam.

well night. I gotta get some sleep. Cardiologist appt in the morn. They irratate me now, I'll tell ya.

Have a good night E
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK, you get a good night of rest, and I hope tomorrow is a good news day!
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hubber_girlposted 14 years ago
everybody should be able to choose whatever religion they want to follow...
I believe GOD IS ONLY ONE, BUT RELIGIONS ARE MANY BUT GOD IS ONLY ONE....all encompasing energy of love or whatever, i cannot describe god...nobody can...
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
which means no one can ever put a number to it...don't go half way with the logic....
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TMMasonposted 14 years ago
There is no such thing as seperation of church and state in the Constitution.

We are a Christian based nation, and that has been the greatness of our country since it's inception
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
Actually that is not the case. What part of Constitutional government is Christian? What part of representative (albeit not truly so) is Biblical?

When the first Amendment forbids government intervention into religion, or the promotion of one religion over another, is this not separation?

In fact, if one is to review a particular speech and conference then presidential candidate John Kennedy gave to Protestant audience the proof of such a separation is quite clear.

The audience overall is afraid that Kennedy's being a Catholic would make him, and therefore the United States, under the authority of the Pope, being that this is an aspect of Roman Catholic thought.

One man asked this in a question...it is on youtube...

Kennedy assured the collection of ministers, pastors, reverands, and the rest that he believed firmly in the separation of church and state, and that his being a Catholic would have no bearing on his duties as president.

How much more clear can it be?

Or do you only want it to be selectively correct to suit your place in time?

If we had a Hindu or Muslim, or non-Christian person in general in office, would you still claim that there was no separation?

tsk tsk.
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TMMasonposted 14 years ago
No it isn't.

It states they cannot promote nor abridge, it daoen't say there will be no religion in the Govt.

Just that they cannot make laws to propagate, nor abridge.

that is what it says. Not seperation.

And a whole lot of our laws and Institutions, were influenced strongly by the Bible and Christianity.

What would it matter who is in office. But no. I wouldn't change my view.
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mikelongposted 14 years ago
cannot promote....whatever that means, right?

Again, you can look at the evidence or you can just move your fingers....the choice is your own.
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qwarkposted 12 years ago
Short and sweet!

ALL monotheism is idiocy!

ERGO, all monotheists are idiots!

Finis!

Qwark
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psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago
You can do anything badly and anything well. i have seen good and terrifying programs for children based on a range or religions and a range of other philosophies.

(I also don't assume a kiss on the mouth is sexual. That is culturally based and at a recent business meeting I saw several actions that could be seen as sexual out of context, but totally weren't. I think projecting sexuality onto interactions with children is in itself kind of weird).
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heavenbound5511posted 12 years ago
The children of Islam information:

Children Terrorist Radical Islam is Perverse and Monstrous 18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2JhiDUt … ature=fvst

ISLAMIC TERROR FAMILIES: Suicide camp, not Soccer Camp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4Thw9li … ature=fvsr

Supported by sharia law-very sad!This 12-y-old girl has been given in a forced marriage and ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaP_sGRs … re=related

For more info just put in Child Executions in Iran, islam, and such into the search engine of youtube. This is not about history this is about what is currently going on and allowed by islamic doctrine. Jesus freed us from the curse and law so we can be free not to be murdered- or to uphold child abuse or abuse period. Those that know God have love -not going around having a killing frenzy!
For the record I'm sure not all muslims have this view but those that do agree with it wouldn't say so anyways.
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LeanManposted 12 years ago
Education in Saudi for kids is terrible from what I have seen...

My young nephew and niece have been attending an "international" school there; the "police" raided the school and removed the school work books which they said promoted Christianity and insisted that the school implemented an Islamic curriculum. Which basically means that these kids learn about the Koran for 70% of the time in class..
The school started to object so they deported ALL of the teachers and closed the school!

The engineers and the like I had working for me were poorly educated, the more "western" were happy to complain that they learned very little in school apart from the Koran!!
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mikelongposted 12 years ago
Whether in the Talmud, the Bible, or the Quran, dispicable behavior is justified through "God's will"...

For any person of these faiths to point to the flawed writings of another is ludicrous...

Without the Talmud or the Bible there would not have been an Islam...

With this said, for all the violence that some wish to point out in the Quran, with the two former texts as its guide, how would the use of violence be considered wrong?

Being that Muslims consider themselves the followers of Abraham, it makes sense that many beliefs are rooted in the Old Testament of the Bible.....for that is where he is located...

The New Testament of the Bible is nothing without the Old... To believe in the New is the justify the Old...

Therefore, the genocide that the Israelites wrought throughout Canaan (if we are to believe the stories)..the murdering, the killing of men women and children without mercy or recourse (all for the taking of land based on the will of God) are a cornerstone to Christian thinking...

Instead of physical conquest, Christians then turn it into imperialism of the soul...

Check out the Church of God of Anderson Indiana... While my family was residing in Egypt, way back in the early 19 teens, these charlatans showed up on their "world tour"....scoping out the "mission fields" in order to assess how much physical wealth could be manipulated out of people in faraway lands...

When I then look at the Armenian Genocide...when I then look to the civil wars that rocked Lebanon and the conflicts that have become the standard for "Middle East" political dysfunction I see Western Christians and their failed geo-political experimentation..... Whether its supporting cronies like Saddam or Mubarak....or the propping up of minority regimes, like the small Shiite sect that oversees Sunni Syria (etc)..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria

A Christian can work as hard as he/she can to wipe the two plus millenia of blood from his/her hands...but they will never wash clean...

The "pot calling the kettle black" syndrome abounds...especially when coming from Mason...
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
A well constructed argument in my book.

As you say, the muslin belief is another version of the religious psychosis in the OT, and the NT justifies the old testament.

I will never understand how someone can read 30,000 passages of hate and manipulation and call it "The word of God"

Any human displaying the same psychosis would be in a white coat real quick.
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
And Operation Cast Lead was celebrated with dancing and singing, attended by Senator Charles Schumer and Gvr Patterson.

Glorifying others suffering. Jews are not immune. They do it too.
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