Are these forces real?
If so, are are they equal in power?
Or which is more powerful, at any given time ...
Yes, they are real and not equal in power. God is more powerful.
No, they don't exist, God and counterpart are constructed. They are used to explain the universe. Wodan threw a spear and so there was lightning. etc.
Over the ages, humans believed in different gods. So the story of a god has changed over time. It is a story, not reality.
Gods are the science of the ancient. Today we can explain thunder and it's not a spear thrown by a god. We can explain why there are so many animals and plants through evolution. Science has taken the explanation role of the gods.
The god theory is obsolete.
One additional thought I had...I think Satan gets too much credit for evil (because we all have the natural man within us) and God doesn't get enough credit. Personally, I like to give God credit for the good things and not blame Him for the bad.
Man is basically very good; it is only when Satan interferes that evil comes forth.
Isn't that pretty much what you're saying about God? That the good comes from God while evil comes from man or Satan? How do you come to that conclusion rather than the one I gave, that uses the same data and information?
Aside from the example of dissenting conclusion, I really DO find most people quite good. Perhaps it is true - that Satan is responsible for those people that are evil. We all make mistakes, and we are all overcome sometimes by the impulses that God built within us, but basically we are good. IMO.
IMO... Valid point. I suppose we find what we are looking for. I suppose there are enough bad news stories to make one jaded. I do agree that good comes from God. It's like the story of the two wolves within us (the good and the bad)... Which one will win? The one we feed
We find what we are looking for, and we make assumptions that will support our desired conclusion. There is, for example, precious little actual evidence that good comes from God (and certainly not all good)...while there is massive biblical evidence that (under current moral codes) that evil comes from God. No one reading the old testament with a critical eye can deny that, but it is set aside because it does not agree with the assumption that God is good.
Of course, we can never definitively decide what "good" is - it forever changes with time and culture.
Even quantum physicists are talking about "universal consciousness", outside of any religious contexts; so if we want to call it "god", we might also call it "real", because it must have taken an enormous intelligence to set the whole universe in a motion. Although, giving that entity the name "god", we can't but step into religion by giving it a male gender, which is too mythical, because it would imply that there is also a female counterpart somewhere in the celestial real estate. Otherwise -- why bother calling god "he"?
But, "evil" is man's mental construct, no matter what place it's "enjoying" in religious texts. It's pure superstition generated by fear. There are deranged humans committing bestial acts, but we can find all about their "evil" side in textbooks of psychopathology.
But then, again, to each their own what anybody chooses to believe, and my opinion is far from imposing any intellectual arrogance as if insisting to be universally correct. Here we all just express ourselves, while respecting what others think.
... but a lack of respect does exist.
- this would be Satan's influence, I would presume. You might attribute this type of unhappy, antisocial behavior to a bad upbringing, cruel treatment and/or drugs and other such harmful substances, knowingly or unknowingly ingested.
... but actually, you could say these negative causes are all Satan's fruits.
Could it be that "Satan" is negative and "God" is positive?
After all, the fruits of God are good/positive.
The fruits of Satan are bad/negative.
Maybe its all a matter of direction.
Spiraling out, negative.
Spiraling in, positive.
Like acid and alkaline:
Some substance are very acidic
and some are very alkaline.
Now, perhaps our job, (or what is in our best interest,) is to balance the powers, attributes and substances toward a state of being neutral. In which case, there would be no good or bad, or God or Satan, or alkaline or acid ...
but rather, powers, forces and substances to balance.
God represents the natural state of reality, revealing itself to us as goodness and love. It has no equal. Satan does not exist in this reality. Evil only exists if we give it life; it is present only in human affairs, it evaporates in the presence of God. What we can do is steer our affairs - our thoughts and deeds, towards goodness and love, turning to God, and for many of us, turning to Christ.
Maybe we are negative and God is positive.
You may call erotic sex satanic. But erotic sex is one of the highest points of the totality that we call Love.
And, as we have discussed, love is the reason of life.
How is erotic sex one of the highest points of the "totality?"
What is the totality (that we call love?)
Why do the saints recommend that we transcend the sex urge?
"Why do the saints recommend that we transcend the sex urge?"
What saints? The Roman Catholic Church designates certain people who led exemplary lives (in their view) as saints. Protestants (I grew up protestant) do not recognize saints but leave that designation for God to say. Some protestant preachers do say "Saint Paul" in reference to the Saul-Paul person but still say they don't believe in human-designated saints. Some people in the Christian church call Paul a saint, but he was a zealot who murdered people before his conversion. I'm not sure that he rates being called a saint. Only God knows that.
Anyway, to get back to your question, since saints are a human religious designation, the "saints" believed that all their energies should be given to the lord and not to another human being. I guess everyone has the right to his or her own opinion on that subject. However, if that church policy had been closely followed, the church would have died out long ago.
Yes, God has already say who a saint is. These are people who take him at his word.
All thousands of interpretations of his word? I still think saints are a human concept.
Here's God's concept and plain or single interpretation of a saint or saints:.Ephesians 1:1-2; Col. 1:1-2. I don't know what other religions talk about saints. Let's hear from our Hindu and Moslem, etc friends.
I replied too long before but was just ignored. And was answered let the moslem hear,so stopped. My opinion will stay the same as i have stated my comment according to the Islamic laws and regulations.
Regards and peace
I think we just want to hear everything according to science not anything else. All religions are respectable and must be respected. In my opinion religions protects us from doing sins.
No, religion will refined us to sin or not and stay sinners.
"according to science"? Science is a tool God gave mankind to understand our environment and the universe. Now can you noted how religion can "refined a man to sin or not to sin, and stay sinner?" Seriously, why do Pope Francis support same sex marriage? Look at the challenge President Biden is propursing on the gender question. Is that more of politics than religion?
Good to know you're a moslem? And you've made up your mind? I had no need to argue with a moslem. I take God for grant because He's omniscience. Even if a minister of God become too humanistic on the issue, I will not defer. We have many religion and cultures of the world. This challenge of Satan vs God is well known, and surprisedly, our thinking and opinion usually diffess. It will be so here with multiple hair spliting. Nevertheless, one thing is clear to me. God create Satan. God is infinitely stronger than Satan. Only a Satanist will digress.
I want to add something here, after watching the following YouTube video. I made a comment on this video, on YouTube. This is the video here: https://youtu.be/nkcKdfL7G3A , and here is the comment I made:
"Imagine a proper humanoid (mannequin~like) robot, with fresh and skin like material. Now imagine you give the control of this humanoid robot to someone on Facebook — who belongs to your opposite gender — who will be controlling this male/female robot with Microsoft HoloLens. You can have remote sex in no time!"
I think the future of sex is going to be digital, and virtual.
Boston Dynamics already has a (male?) humanoid robot, named 'Atlas'.
Not sure you can assign a sex to a robot - without DNA or even the ability to reproduce it seems moot.
Why not build a rather androgynous appearing machine, with accessory, bolt on, kits to provide whichever "sex" you wish. You could even include a switch (perhaps tripped by the accessory you choose) to set the AI to "feminine" or "masculine". Everyone wins!
(Might rather ruin the mood, though, when you have to screw on your own choice of "accessory" kit before use. )
... did you say "screw on?"
Lol. hah ha ha h
He did, and I don't think it was a Freudian slip.
I think wilderness is allurding to a form of kantric(?) yoga? I'm laughing louder too! Ha ha ha! He he he!
Katherine, let me quote John Van Auken, an executive at the A.R.E. and head of the Edgar Cayce Foundation. John said, "Meditation is silent prayer." He said that you can substitute silent prayer for meditation in any sentence. So the goal of meditation is the same as the goal of silent prayer. I'm sure that prayers, both silent and aloud, have many goals, depending upon the needs of the moment.
I believe the science to finding God and experiencing God can be known.
This is a complex topic. But it probably looks simple and basic. There is no need to bring hard facts into it. The truth is that God is creator. He begin the creative process. He create all and still doing same. "Thou art the annointed cherub that covereth, and I have set thee so." Bible Ezekiel 28:14-15. In other words, God created Lucifer(Satan). All others before him are imitators like child imitate a parent. Nonetheless, Lucfer's attempt in copy his creator result in serious (error?). He tried to dethrone his creator, with his limited power. Isaii 14:13-15. God is still powerful as ever he is.
God and Shaitan both exist but God is most powerful as shaitan is also God's creation. I am a Muslim and will answer in Islamic way with quran reference
(Quran, 114:1-6). ... He(The God Allah) says, “Shaitan (Satan) threatens you with poverty and orders you to commit Fahsha (evil deeds, illegal sexual intercourse, sins); whereas Allah promises you forgiveness from Himself and bounty, and Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knower” (Qur'an, 2:268).
Shows that Allah is Almighty, the most powerful
I quoted quran as am a Muslim. I hope no one will mind it.
Satan Promises Allah Four Things:
PROMISE 1: I will lead them astray. (Al Quran: 4:119)
PROMISE 2: I will give them false passions and desires. (Al Quran: 4:119)
PROMISE 3: I will command them and they will slit the ear of cattle. (Al Quran: 4:119)
PROMISE 4: I will command them and they will change the creation of Allah SWT. (Al Quran: 4:119)
All this promises were made by shaitan when he was send down on earth as he disobeyed when he was asked to bow against Adam as Allah called man as His best and superior of all creatures because Allah blessed Man with knowledge.
I find that interesting since I do not know your Quran. Thank you.
Who is our enemy number one? Allah Ta’ala mentioned in the Holy Quran that Shaitan (Satan) is our great enemy. He said,
“Surely, Shaitan (Satan) is an enemy to you, so take (treat) him as an enemy. He only invites his Hizb (followers) that they may become the dwellers of the blazing fire.” (Qur’an, 35:6)
The ways Shaitan deceives the mankind
Shaitan has different ways and means to deceive the mankind. The pious people will get Allah’s protection; and Iblis and his forces will never harm them. Allah Ta’la said,
“Iblis said: ‘Because You have sent me astray, surely, I will lie in wait against them (human beings) on Your straight path. Then, I will come to them from before them and behind them, from their right and from their left, and You will not find most of them as thankful ones (i.e they will not be dutiful to You” (Qur’an, 7:17)
He diverts the people from the right path in the following ways:
a. By creating enmity among themselves: destructive criticisms or errant behaviour followed by physical fighting. Allah (SWT) says, “Shaitan (Satan) wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah and from As-Salat (the prayer). So, will you not then abstain”? (Qur’an, 5:91)
b. Putting doubts in the hearts of the people: Always we should seek Allah Protection from Shaitan. Allah Said, “Say, “I seek refuge with (Allah) the Lord of mankind, The Kind of mankind, The Ilah (God) of mankind, From the evil of the whisperer (devil who whispers evil in the hearts of men) who withdraws (from his whispering in one’s heart after one remembers Allah). “Who whispers in the breast of mankind. “Of Jinn and men”. (Quran, 114:1-6).
c. Putting fear of poverty in the hearts of some people. Allah Ta’ala is All-Sufficient for His creatures’ needs. He says, “Shaitan (Satan) threatens you with poverty and orders you to commit Fahsha (evil deeds, illegal sexual intercourse, sins); whereas Allah promises you forgiveness from Himself and bounty, and Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures’ needs, All-Knower” (Qur’an, 2:268).
Ways to defeat Shaitan
a. Observing Piety (Taqwa): Allah Ta’ala will make smooth for us the path of ease if we keep our duties to Him, “As for him who gives (in charity) and keeps his duty to Allah and fears Him; and believes in Al-Husna, we will make smooth for him the path of ease (goodness).” (Quran, 92:5-7)
b. Praying Salaah on Time: Salaah prevents us from great sins. Allah Ta’ala said, “Recite (O Muhammad –SAW) what has been revealed to you of the Book (the Qur’an), and perform As-Salat. Verily, As-Salat (the prayer) prevents from Al-Fahsha (i.e. great sins of every kind, unlawful sexual intercourse) and Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism, and every kind of evil wicked deed).” (Qur’an, 29:45).
c. Joining to the masjid activities: participating in masjid activities makes the emaan of the believer stronger. Allah Ta’ala said, “The mosques of Allah shall be maintained only by those who believe in Allah and the Last Day; perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat and fear none but Allah. It is they who are on true guidance.” (Qur’an, 9:18)
d. Acquiring True Islamic Knowledge: Knowledgeable people, in Islam, can differentiate between right and wrong; and it is not easy for Shaitan to deceive them. Allah Ta’ala says, “It is only those who have knowledge among His slaves that fear Allah” (Qur’an, (35:28)
e. Reciting the Holy Quran at home: Narrated Abu Hurairah (RA): That the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said, “Do not turn your houses into graves. Indeed, Shaitan does not enter the house in which Surah Al-Baqarah is recited”. (Hadith: Jami At-Tirmidhi).
It's not to hurt anyone as when it comes to religion and beliefs people become sensitive. It is just a general comment and please take it in a general way.
Peace and love as humanity is above everything
This is interesting topic of discussion.
I began to understand God and the world better when a minister explained to me that we are part of both the spiritual world and the physical world. Science, business, etc. are part of the physical world. That is why we should not look away from science or technology. God has given them to us to enhance our lives in the physical world.
Science can not explain the spiritual world because all of the laws and understandings of science do not apply to it. People like to dismiss the spiritual world because they put their trust in the physical world, a world they will only be in for a short time.
Each of us also has a soul. This is our connection to the spiritual world. We often have feelings and understandings of things because our soul is trying to communicate things to us. It has nothing to do with science or the physical world because our soul is not part of this. It is the reason you can not physically see a person's soul, but you can sense it.
God and the Devil are very real. They are spoken about in many cultures. Even undeveloped tribes that have little or not contact with modern humans know there is good and evil.
So, in the spiritual world God and the Devil are trying to obtain your soul after you pass on from this world and you WILL pass on from this world. We have free will, so we get to choose our own path. Many feelings, situations and understandings of what we can't comprehend in the physical world are understood completely by our soul. It is our connection to the spiritual world.
How do you then describe the relation between government and organized religion? Are they related at all? How much are they related to one another?
These are good questions.
I would say that depends on who is influencing the government. Satan fears religion. Therefore, governments who fear religion have given themselves into Satan. In the scheme of things, no matter how hard governments have come down on people because of their faith, the faithful have found a way to survive and continue. History is filled with examples of governments trying to eliminate those with faith. It survives because God is with those who believe.
Government has no role in faith. It can either accept or fight against it. Either way, those with faith in God will continue to find a way to practice their belief.
I don't believe how a government is run should be based on a religion. I also don't see how it can't help but be influenced by those in the government who have faith.
I may agree with you on certain issues, but not on others. Fact is religion is a tool of the Devil. That is why he preserve those with a religious bent. Those with faith he tempted, and when they fall he accursed them either before God or the Police. Think about it.
Yet there are those who want to feed the wolves for the sheer indulgence of it.
https://www.fbi.gov/cve508/teen-website … ist-groups
What about those who are not for goodness?
How can good people fight them, transform them, change them?
Or are we to change ourselves only, (since this is the only thing, really, in our power to do.)
... and to what end, if not happiness on earth?
- because it seems impossible to establish a Utopia here.
I think we can have a peaceful and happy life if we just fear God. We can defeat Satan as well. Like we fear police, a robbery will not take place or will be less if there is a fear of Police. Likewise we can do good to ourselves and to others if we fear God. And we should fear Him to make this Earth a Paradise because no religion give a bad concept of God. And every religion is respectable. No religion teaches us to be bad or to commit sin or to do injustice.
Blessings and peace
@Castlepaloma-I've noticed that you follow religious forums & topics...in a nutshell, what do you believe?
Mark O, he believe we're made out of billions of bacteria. Don't argue with him. You can't get smarter. Besides, he believes on the hairs on your head to tell you much than any one else.
Beliefs holds me back from enthusiastic thinking and feeling.
Labels hold me back from limitless and boundless energy. Very curious about the 99% unknown world and universe. I don't think anyone is above me or below me. That leaves out politics and Religion. If someone called me a artist/spiritual/anarchist. I would accept it. They are the most peaceful, humorist and greatest entrepreneurs I have ever meet.
So it's hard to nail down what you believe, then. To each their own
To be honest
There is something about the 99% unknowns in the world and the 99.999999999999999 universe that puzzling.
Can't put my finger on it, like you.
I know what I believe. I was just trying to clarify what you believe and seeking to understand. I believe very differently than you. You are entitled to your opinion.
Doesn't science prove God?
... and what proves Satan?
Maybe God exists and Satan ....
Hell is on earth and Heaven is apparently not on earth.
Maybe God brought Heaven to earth.
And we bring Heaven to earth.
It seems, we are constantly trying to resist and reform "Hell."
What will we do if we finish our work on Earth of making it a heaven? :~)
Same thing you would do if you died and went to the Christian heaven. But if planets' inhabitants make their own planets into Heaven on (Blank), of what use is heaven?
Sadly, I have heard, that that will never happen. God himself would throw a monkey wrench into the works because He wants us to come home to heaven ... off the earth.
I get a good sleep in a church which is helpful.
That's great. And besides, d'you see or hear a voice?
Do get silent voices in my head from the universe. It could be my more powerful subconscious. We know very litter about the 99.999999999 unknowns. First I must master for what I do know.
You master your domain also, friend.
Sounds to me like religion is a joke to you, Castlepaloma. I'm sorry you feel that way. I like comedy very much, but not everyone has the same sense of humor. I think I'm with Miebakagh57. Those who take it seriously don't enjoy being mocked. But it's your life. I respect your opinion, but perhaps respect that others don't want to just joke around about it all the time. Our experiences, thoughts, environment, etc shape us and obviously you've had some experiences that make you want to be more uncommitted. That's your prerogative
My best friends we mock each other all the time with great respects. With a personal God, he wants me to fear him, worship him and die for him. God laughs himself, then I tell him, my life plans.
Don't take life too seriously. Laughing is one of the best medicines and for understanding.
But as I said, some don't like mockery or sarcasm. There are aspects of religion that can be funny, but for some, religion is part of one's core. Fear can help some, but I don't think it is required... That is a lesser motivation. Love is the highest motive. We don't have to die for God. It is better to live for Him. Do what you want. I think you're just butting heads with some who want a serious and sincere discussion. That is all. I don't go to forums on religion to be the class clown or cause chaos
I laugh daily whether I like it or not, for it rejuvenated my mind and body. Laughing is a gift. God is the giver and He's a good laughter. The Universe we observe daily are laughing while on their course. If you doubt that look at a dead body. Does it smile? Nope.
Thanks for your diplomatic response. Respect is good. I'm not a fan of contention. I'm a big fan of comedy, mostly stand up comedy. I have recently heard some of Brad Stine's work, who is conservative... His comedy is quite refreshing
I can agree with you, Mark. My belief can't be same as yours. That puts us and others more in a position of trust and respect. A believe that is not well define for example, about God or a religion, comes under the legal maxim caveat emptor or buyer beware! It lacks the elements of trust, respect, and hand shake. That said, I don't see how a joke can be create into the issue or revolve around it, except one desire to relax.
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