This thread indeed incites conflicts and division among mankind. The poster enjoys it a lot.
A lack of religious belief can be shared by all and bring all people together. Religions only divide people as we can plainly see from the thousands of different religions professing their god and their beliefs.
The same beliefs would have outsiders or non-believers of that religion sent to eternal damnation and hellfire simply because they don't worship that particular god.
How is this not divisive and how does it not cause conflict?
Who is actually causing the usual conflicts and division if I may ask? They say, "charity begins at home."
You make absolutely no sense. One statement has absolutely nothing to with the latter statement.
Religion and those who follow religious mystical scripture are the cause of the conflict, because of the ignorance the united share between them and others like them.
There isn't anything civilized about Christians or their individual personal 'god'. The very words spouted are the cause of conflict, yet none of them see it.
That's your opinion...good for you. Atheism is neither civilized as claimed. We've had more heated threads by Mark that lead to personal attacks and calling of names in the past...Mark is a bit tamed now unlike two years ago. But he won't stop causing the same.
Your own skewed views see my words as opinion, when actually they are FACT and the simple FACT that you "dismiss" them for opinion, show your willing to be in conflict with other out of choice.
My concern is not for Mark or his being an Atheist, because believe it or not, truth is all the matters to Mark.
The FACT you claim he insults people is subjective and only amounts to the overall/underlying problem. People who are religious feel their righteous makes them superior to others.
That is a lie in and of itself.
So, apparently you are not any better than those who you cast your words at about sin, when in fact you sin just by opening your mouth.
There you start! Calling names! Don't expect me to respond in these manners of the poster. Believing is a choice!
Are we enabling now, Ray? Come on. If one is purely interested in truth, they would not design or inspire their own doctrine, hold everything accountable to one organization nor constantly, daily and poignantly oppose everyone's opine -for the sake of sarcasm, humor or otherwise.
just a thought...
there are no FACTS, only things considered beyond a reasonable doubt.
And you say that why exactly? Do you seriously believe anything you say is going to matter to me. Hmm....that too, is just a thought.
Where are we suppose to be going?
You're too funny. Thank you I needed a good laugh today.
Interesting you say that.
like I said, Ray: enabler. give the preaching a rest.
isn't helping you or Mr. "Pump up my Blog" either.
Not one shred of actual value do you or he present as a VALID and USEFUL alternate. Forget justification -it is useless on both ends. Sarcasm, hate speech and evasive "lol" sound bites don't make anyone better...
just a thought...
And, your point of pointing out my action is for your own self gratification?
You have no reason to even bother with me or anything I say. Yet, you attempt to do it, as though you are convincing yourself that it's going to do some good.
So, do everyone, including yourself, a favor. Mind your business and stick to cooking. Because, every time you open your mouth on here, someone jumps down your throat, with the same attitude you project.
What separates YOU and Me? Is our experience in understanding individual people. Which, you apparently give no value to at all. You degrade and dictate, as though you have THE ultimate philosophical position, when in fact you don't. What's even funnier is that you do not see it, even as people point it out to you.
With that said- Good night.
A pleasant weekend Cagsil. I guess this thread is best for religionists. I perceive hate...I'm out!
To respond to the original thought-does Christianity cause conflict and division-it proves true that all creeds have the ability to create division among people. While a creed has the potential and I think the goal of uniting those who believe in a similar manner-most often mankind has the personal desire to see the differences instead of the similarities in beliefs.
Imagine for a moment... You wake up one morning and every one you meet has an attitude just like yours.
Everyone has a outlook on life just like yours.
Every one responds to others exactly like you do.
Take everyone off of the face of the earth that disagrees with your view as to what the world is supposed to be like.
Honestly ...After a few days living in that world are you REALY going to like it ??
Why does it have to be like that? As usual - all you can do is defend your ridiculous religion. People who not agree with homosexuals doing as they wish do not have to start agreeing. They just have to stop parading their disagreement with it and fighting to have it made illegal.
We don't have to all think the same thing to get along do we? I am surprised you are unable to see the artificial division this religion causes.
Why do you say it's artificial? If you think about it. It's human to disagree, by human I am referring to all humanity. Even if this world had no religion, there will still be disagreements and wars. Unless we are all mindless puppets with no ideas of our own and everyone thinks the same, conflict is inevitable.
Being in the Christian faith does present a viewpoint that does not agree with the non-believing world, therefore conflict will happen. Not because of the Christian faith, but because it's human nature to be conflictive.
It's interesting that believers are convinced that we would still act the way we do without religions.
But, that is exactly the characteristics that make up believers. It is the non-believers who think for themselves and don't simply follow a cults doctrines like mindless puppets. You nailed it.
No, it IS the Christian faith that causes the conflict and has little to do with human nature. Sorry.
I rest my case Q, you are disagreeing with me now.
As individuals we are not puppets, we have free will, and not being puppets, we all have our own way of thinking, therefore conflict is inevitable. If we, Christians are all mindless puppets than it would be very difficult for us to be conflictive since our thinking would totally conformist. Conflict happens when two do not conform to the same opinion, and it is human nature not to conform.
Even if this world was similar to John Lennon's "Imagine" with no religion, countries or anything else he states as causing conflict, there will still be war. Conflict starts within one's heart, it not a matter of taking away externals. You could have a world of plenty with no ideologies, that as long as there is hatred in the heart of people, there will be conflict.
If anything Christianity has taught people to choose unselfishness and peace. It teaches to love not to hate. It teach to love your enemy. Lets face it, if everyone loved their enemies, there would be less enemies and less conflict. That seems logical to me.
It's not only believers, who think we act the way we do without religion, there are many philosophers who are not religious who talk about the conflictive nature of man.
Nonsense. You are merely defending your belief system. Oddly enough - that is the source of the conflict.
We are not naturally conflictive. We need something to trigger that. Religion and nationalism are the two most commonly used tools in the arsenal used by a small percentage of the population who are driven by greed to own or control the resources at the expense of the rest of humanity.
Combined with artificially rationing the resources (money) both a belief in an invisible super Daddy and the belief that "We are better than XYZ tribe and deserve their resources" are fantastic tools to manipulate the sheeple.
Christians are a perfect example of non-thinking and I for one think we could actually change our behavior if we wanted to, but it requires thinking for our selves.
2000 years of the invisible super Daddy has been proven not to work and your denial that it causes conflict is strange.
So you're saying atheists never argue among themselves. That in a world with no religion everyone would get along.
No. I am saying that religion and a belief in a god is one of the tools used to artificially cause conflict between groups of humanity and disposing of it is one step towards uniting us. Just read a bible - it will cause conflict because it is tribal thinking. Sure - there are other tools that are used such as nationalism and these would need to go also.
All the time you believe that you have the word of god in your head and your way is the right way - how can we be united?
We can't. It has been the dream of man since the beginning to have some form of Utopia. Experiment after failed experiment have been conducted throughout history. In the US there have been at least 50 utopias and none have prevailed.
Utopias don't exist and it's not because of religion, it's because of human nature.
Nonsense. You give up too easy. I am not giving up and I am not talking about utopia. How can you artificially create a Utopia in a small space? Of course these "experiments" failed.
Who made them? The same guys that told you tobacco was good for you and your reward will be in heaven.
I disagree! Having a utopia has not been the wishes of all men. Just those who are unrealistic in their expectations. The best we can hope for is getting along and making life easier for each other. Sorry!
It's not because of human nature. This is precisely why there are problems now- too many religious people think it "CANNOT" be done.
Nice negative attitude. Religion causes wars, and if religion didn't exist then it would be easier to get along, simply on the basis that we can find common ground to work with without the interference of delusions of grandeur.
That's a contradiction as religions have created an afterlife utopia that has little or nothing to do with human nature.
Mark I believe it's the people not the amount of space that caused the failure of these experiments.
Randy, I wish we could all get along, but for that to happen we all need some common ground. Utopia, although artificial were the best attempt on the part of humanist to find that common ground. If you think of it even humanism is a form of religion.
Cagsil, where do negative attitudes originate? It starts with the mind. Only a world of puppets or people who are totally for the same ideals could peace exist. The problem is who decides which ideals to follow, it's not going to happen in this world.
Q: Your are pretty much right. The faith does give hope in a perfect afterlife. Yes human nature as we know it will not exist.
Sorry you have such a low opinion of us and are so convinced we cannot improve. All we can do is hope and pray and then in the next life we will be in paradise huh?
Mark, I don't have a low opinion of you or any of the others in this forum. I think you are very intelligent. Disagreeing does not mean I have a low opinion of you.
I was wondering, what would you propose as a solution to Christian causing wars. You must have a really good alternative. I want to know what you think.
Yes I do. I think we should teach ethics and the ability to learn in schools instead of mindless drivel about doing as god wants. We also need to dispose of money, a belief in a divinity and national borders.
I did not mean me personally. I meant us. All of us. Which pretty much sums up the artificial divide.
Abolish Christianity. Why would anyone with a brain in their head even join an organization with such a violent history?
Thanks for sharing what you think would be a solution to wars. I know you are not the first to propose this solution, it has been the subject of many books and debates. Don't take it personally, I read a lot to. I'm not ignorant, I just don't agree with your viewpoint.
Of course you don't. You believe god will make it all better and we do not need to even try. I get it. You have been sold on not giving a damn and hoping it will be OK when you are dead.
This is what religion needs. People like you who give up on humanity and pray for paradise in death. Sad really.
Even if you could achieve your dream, we all will die one day. I have to agree with you, I don't take life in this world very seriously. I feel this life is temporary and I believe in the other one to be far superior and eternal.
I know you think Christianity is just pie in the sky thinking and foolishness. I on the other hand, see it as my greatest hope. I once thought a lot like you do, but God found me along the way. Christ said it "My kingdom is not of this world" Yes, your right about Christians having their hope in afterlife.
It is not the christian religion that causes conflict and division, nor the muslim faith nor any other... It is people with their hatred of anyone not from their group... Those of you who argue on here are no better than spoilt little children arguing after school about whose football team is better..
The word that keeps popping into my mind through all these types of threads: Racism.
Racism: humans versus humans.
Bruce_Leiter I could be wrong but I don't think that the trinity is that much concerned if I think that they are three in one or one in three. If Jesus can be crucufied for our sins, he is not going to be disturbed on that issue.
No offence but I don't believe that the scripture reveals itself to us. It is what it is. If it were not for our interpretations, the truth that is in it would not need to be revealed.
Just my thoughts.
Jesus Christ did not come to make peace. He came to save your soul
"I come, not to bring peace, but division, and a sword!" He came to reveal, and that revelation divides the old perception of the Hebrew God from the new perception that became organized christian religion. Karl Marx said " Religion is the opiate of the masses."
I think that when people have strong, differing beliefs about anything, conflicts can arise... politics, economic theory, who has the right to certain natural resources, etc.
Religion is just one area where people have very strong views. Similarly, religions, like political, economic or other social movements can at times attempt to enforce their views on others in the cruelest and most inhumane ways.
The fault lies not in religion per say, or in believing strongly in something, or in the fact that people have differing views. Problems arise when these views inherently demand that followers superimpose their beliefs upon others, or when adherents take it upon themselves to do so even if their expressed faith demands no such thing.
I do not understand why so many people do not know the difference between having comunion with God and having religion.
Long opinon to a simple question. I'm sure there will be more thought on this. Thanks Jerami
"Traditional Religion" is man made (denominations), with rules and individual doctrines. If you want to belong, you must adhere to the plan. We find a particular group of people who we feel comfortable with and
The act of Communion, remembering, meditating on the birth, death and ressurection of Christ allows God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, to come in, love on us, correct us, and actually have a relationship with us, and us with Him.
We are called to fellowship, to gather together, to learn, to teach, and go out and love one another as Christ has loved us. We do this in church settings. I haven't found perfection in any church, and as long as there are people like me, I guess I never will. But belonging to an organized church family has allowed me to grow in my relationship with Christ. So taking communion is so special because it reminds me of HIs complete love for me and the world. It reminds me that I am a part of a universal family called the Body of Christ.
It is difficult for me to say what I am thinking about religion sometimes. Religion is a good thing when it comes to introducing someont to God.
But it is kinda like when your best friend introduces you to a blind date. They can tell ya for ever and for ever how great that person is. But eventually you are going to have to have a relationship with him or not.
Some people are goina talk about it for ever and not have that relationship.
Church activities can be great! But if this is our fulfillment ??? A Journey half fulfilled is not satisfying; I wouldn't think.
One of the things Jesus had against the Pharasees was their religion. They went by the letter of the law and didn't look into the heart of man. Mosses said "An eye for an eye." Jesus said "Turn the other cheek". The people caught a woman in adultry and brought her out to be stoned, according to the law. Jesus said "He who is with out sin cast the first stone." I have been to different denominations and they are all a little different. I have sat in church and heard how it is a sin for a woman to cut her hair. They skipped the scripture under that which said "If there be any contention among you there is no such custom in the church of God." Forget about "Religion" and look upon a persons heart. Yes I believe Jesus is the way. I have friends who don't believe. I love them any way. We agree that we can disagree.
There's no denying religions the world over have dramatically changed the shape of history and society for the worse.
But it's also given a lot, too. It's easier to see the darker points, however.
At any rate--it's not Christianity. It's the corrupt hearts, minds, and souls of those leveraging religion for their own agendas.
Is Mark serious??????
Tolerance from Christians??????
NO! Sorry, we dont tolerate religions who sacrifice babies and drink their blood, never see any athiest or Muslims, homosexuals crying out against that on here!!!!!
No everyone wants to "cry" about Christians are so judgemental............ They are ruining the world.......HA HA...
I have never encountered a homosexual at work, school etc who didn't always have "SOMETHING" negative to say about heterosexuals (their hair, their clothes, their house, their boyfriend/girlfriend) but then again I've never met ALL gays in this world, their 'might' be a non judgemental one.\
Same goes for you Mark, you haven't met all Christians, you, me, we are all flesh and blood. In all different walks of life.
sorry if i offended anyone- some of you would prefer I refer to my first statement as "Pro-choice". by the way nice pic.
I myself would be suprised if such a meating had not happened.
It has always been my belief that the Church that the Roman Empire built is the beast that John saw rise up out of the sea in rev 13.
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