Why does religion have to be so organized?

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purpleangel47posted 14 years ago
When Jesus was alive was he walking around spouting affirmations of love, peace and brotherhood from a book? Or did his teachings come from his heart? While a book is a useful guide, it seems to me the heart is a much more reliable source.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Many times Jesus quoted from the Old Testament.
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  Pearldiverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Pleeze.... Why Don't you Get Real and Tell the Truth!!
  
  Which Is......
  
  That You have absolutely NO PROOF that such a situation Occured and you are only guessing that it did
  
  Perhaps one should ask: Why is Organized so Religious?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Only three times, SD, did he quote Torah -not "Old Testament".
  One of them was only a partial verse - from Isaiah.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus only used "religion's" own words against it, so as to practice self-responsibility, control, love and mercy.
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  purpleangel47posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Cagsil ... and my response to Rafini below was in part a response to your "imagination" comment .
  
  Thank you for responding
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is, however, that was Christ. He organized the effort to reach all people. He provided the doctrine and organized the Church. Because of this we must be assured that His Church must and is an organized standard. "His is a house of order." He was emphatic about true authority and receiving and executing ordinances through the ordained authority by the Father and through Jesus Christ. For this simple reason there is order in His house for the benefit of sustained doctrine and standards.
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  purpleangel47posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's definitely food for thought goldenpath. Thank you for responding
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And sustained employment for priests.
  
  I wonder how the instruction - "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
  
  Got changed to "find gainful employment promoting the doctrine and dogma that I despise and build big tall buildings in my honor."
  
  Oh yeah........
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dig that corn cob out. I've told you and others on numerous occasions that there are NO paid clergy in the Church. Keep trying the "gotcha" technique. Sooner or later you may just succeed! By the ways, that's a lovely picture you posted. Been there on several occasions.
  
  Enjoy!
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In other words, they made sure no paper trails exist. Cash only.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Boy, you're a real knee slapper!
  
  So much so - I forgot to laugh...
  
  In fact, the inability to drop this age old simple point of Church administration when I have repeatedly explained it gives way to a new and improved state of laughter:
  
  This absolutely PROVES that the aim of repeating these kinds of posts is for attention only and not for true dialogue. This affects me in no way, shape or form. Sorry! I have never been paid in any form by the Church - ever. It's really not that hard to accept. Really.
  
  Here's how you do it. Just take a deep breath and say to yourself, "OK, goldenpath, thanks for your input." After that put it to rest and never bring it up again. Money trails are extremely easy to follow in any organization. If we, as clergy, were paid in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do you really think I would be that dim as to claim the other way when I know how simple it is to prove otherwise. Not.... To still be this spiteful after all these months is really counterproductive.
  
  I really have no problems with you or your constant backlash against my faith. It's a "roll of the back" sort of thing. I do, however, find it amazing that the deep engrained suspicions continue when the simple plan of the administration has been laid out right before you time and time again.
  
  I now end my laughter.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I most certainly believe you have never seen anyone accept money in your church.
  
  How? Unknown amounts of cash pour in without any receipts given to the donor.
  
  The LDS is only required to disclose their financial statements in the UK, and not in the US. And they have not done so since 1959.
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Problem with you mark knowles is that 1/2 of what u think applies to the whole, it doesn't.
  Asia bibi was arrested on june 19, 2009 following a heated argument about islam. She professed christ the other didnt. After 2.5 yrs in jail she is free and with her family again.
  In china. the Three-self-church is doing what the roman catholic church did back in Christs days. Offering sanctuary to those who sign up and free bibles too. Then the 'home churches' get ransacked and many people are killed, imprisoned. Their homes burnt.
  You live in a nice country where freedom to worship costs you nothing, so you put nothing into it, out of the selfishness of your heart. You never try to say anything positive you only tear down.
  In this wonderful but somewhat misguided attempt to portray all churches as big mansion like castles you have never been to any of the churches i attend. They are quaint, small, kinda outdated, little bigger than houses but certainly not the picture you describe. If you bothered to inform yourself around the hubpages or anywhere else for that matter you may realize that cathedrals are NOT the normal place of worship for most of christianity in our country, mud huts will do in most other countries. Most of these types of responses are out dated and incorrect.
  I find all generalized responses to be the idiocy of the brainwashed unsaved-massess mindset. 'You simply do not know and therefore you discredit the whole'. This is a simplistic, angry and useless way to export information and always, it is incorrect. Just because having a few pictures of mistakes, doesn't make you 'all knowing' nor does it endow you with new revelation.
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  Disappearingheadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus never gave us organised religion and the early church consisted of informal gatherings of fellow believers. Thge formality of the Christian religion only came about really when the Catholic church was established in rome. It's then that Christianity was turned in a potential p[roperous career.
  
  Truth is, to follow Christ you do not need the religious baggage of formal hierarchies, fancy clothes and funny hats, religious days, and beautiful archetecture. The popularity of house churches in the 80's was an attempt to be faithful to the original church concept.
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  purpleangel47posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My thoughts exactly Disappearinghead. Thank you for responding.
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  oceansnsunsetsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Great question... I think Jesus definitely spoke from His heart, but also, was in keeping with many things in the book, say the BIble. (If that is what you are referring to) Part of what made him such an incredible person, was he didn't contradict anything, but also showed that love, peace, forgiveness, and seeking truth was the way to go.
  
  Any religions that branch off from the rather simple teachings of Jesus, can lose focus and miss the bigger points, and get caught up in power struggles, etc. To answer you, I don't think religion needs to be so organized.
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  purpleangel47posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you oceansnsunsets ... that's really all I'm saying. That connecting with your true spirit, which is what I believe Jesus did, is a lot more simple than religions make it. Just living can be hard enough these days. We need a peaceful way of moving forward in every part of our lives.
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  oceansnsunsetsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I hear you, Purpleangel.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Religion only has one reason for being organized- control.
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  purpleangel47posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And it's that control I have a monumental issue with Cagsil. When you start controlling any situation, you get caught up in maintaining that control; losing sight of where you're going and how to respect those that are going with you.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately, those who are in power in government and the religious establishment(all of them), will not give up their usurped positions, because they themselves see themselves as better or superior to those who do not know any better.
  
  It is their system of control and it's getting tighter everyday.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I love it when when ya say stuff that I couldn't agree more with. Not going to allways anounce it when it happens though.
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  oceansnsunsetsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cagsil, If you would, could you please specify which specific religions you are speaking of when you say these things, because it sounds like you are saying its true of all people that practice religion. That simply and obviously isn't a true thing, so that is why I wanted to clarify.
  I think that what you said about control, is only true when its the actual reason, and actually happening. If its not true, then its not true. Hoping for more fairness here, thanks
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  volleyball-jumperposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Why does religion have to be so organized? " would people rather have it chaotic? lol i have no problem with organized religion, i dont know why people have a problem with the word "organized" when ever i hear organized i think its nice, because we can distinguish between two things. The World only works in organization, we humans need organization, so religion is "organized" for our own human sanity.
  SO my problem is not with "organized" religion, i have a problem with unorganized and chaotic believes of some . meaning i think some crazy people ruin it for all the others. The terrorist, supremacist etc, they are the ones that deviate from the "organized" religion, and then all of the sudden religion is bad. Even Buddhism is organized.
  
  so many good things come from organized religion, and to see that pple do not appreciate its value, then thats a little sad
  
  (just my humble opinion)
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  purpleangel47posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm thankful to have your opinion volleyball-jumper.
  And i agree that without organization, chaos would crush the little bit of stability that we have.
  My core issue is that people - the ones you mentioned- and so-called "normal" people, tend to morph organization into control and then poison the rest of the world one person, one group at a time.
  Ex: You've got parents holding the bible in their hand while they're abusing their children; news about a toddler starved to death and stuffed in a suitcase for not praying before meals; mindsets that believe all you have to do in life is shout a few hallelujahs, go to church all the time and you're free to abuse others, kill in the name of Christ, and then head back to church to start the cycle over.
  It's frightening .... (my humble opinion too)
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  oceansnsunsetsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, a TON of good things have come from organized religion, and we continue to see it all the time.
  People may not want to admit it, but they do see it all the time as well. Its a lot of good being promoted all around us.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes - I especially love the child sexual assaults - they are wonderful. The Haitian kidnappings? Wonderful love of the Lord for your own good being shared. The banning of Burkas in France and Italy? Super examples of the harmony that these ridiculous religions promote.
  
  Odd that you are now claiming responsibility for those things organized religion attempted to stop. Such as science. Almost every scientific advancement was hailed by the church as heresy and evil incarnate at the time. Even now you have religionists attacking any and all scientific knowledge as evil. This is one religionists opinion on space travel:
  
  But - "no ethical standards here" seems to be the religion catchphrase of the day. Just imagine the outcry when electricity was first invented.
  
  Thank you for reminding us all that defending the institution in the face of reality is all important.
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  bwenzel100posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus is not only the main character of the New Testament. But the old testament fortold His coming and he was more knoledgeable than anyone ever before him on the Old Testament. If you read about Jesus He quoted the Bible all the time so the answer is yes. He did read out of God's word, the Bible.
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  ahostagesituationposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus quoted from scrolls and books familiar to the people to often. He was flexible, but there was definitely order to what he did. He quoted most often from the book of Isaiah.
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All Jesus did was help his community. Did random act of kindness stuff. When a lady touched his the bottom of his rob she was cured from her disease. He created bread from objects,. He changed a lot of lives.. according to the bible. And, Google resource.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLOL
  
  English - do you speak it?
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  oceansnsunsetsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Great points Nikki, and ahostagesituation.
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  Michael Willisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Posting reply to Original Poster!!! ( I have not read others replies and will not)
  
  When Jesus was alive He was teaching from the Father, God, Trilogy. (His heart) Depends on your beliefs how this is taken.
  
  The problem I see today in organized religion is that tradition and the "rulers" of the People in charge of Church today are more like the Pharisees and Sadducees of the Bible days.
  
  There will be those who get riled by this statement, but.....take a long look at how a lot of people act in Church today. If real Christians really followed the Bible as they claim....Church would be a place that welcomed everyone and showed God's love and mercy.
  
  I have tried to find a professional writer for years to share life history in Church to address my experiences in this matter. Eyes in the Church (the people) need to be opened to why people are pushed away from organized religion.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree to a point. Now I wonder what kind of church you go to.
  
  Pharisees were the ones who thought they knew it all. They remind me of a few atheists here. They followed what they decided was right within themselves.
  
  Many belief systems fall under the category of Pharasiac beliefs. Ypu must also remember that Jesus said, "If your righteousness does not surpass that of the pharisees, you will not see the kingdom of heaven."
  
  My homechurch accepts anyone who wants to come. In fact, we would rather have drug addict and alcoholics come than those who have done nothing wrong. Maybe you just need to find a good homechurch for yourself.
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Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago
The New Testament is actually the story of Christ Himself as He fulfilled the OT prophecies. So yes, we should honor Him by spreading the Gospel---the good news of what He accomplished. We're not Him, so we need His word to witness; otherwise He wouldn't have given us that Book to follow. You're right if you're saying it does no good to quote the Book if the principles aren't in your heart, though.
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  purpleangel47posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your response Brenda ... and basically that is what I'm saying. Trying to interpret the principles in the bible have led to gross misinterpretations, violence and many times death - all in valiant efforts to walk down an organized path. And I suppose we could debate that those who have taken the word that far probably had issues before they picked up the bible but that's circumstancial.
  I just feel that the basic principles of the bible are very simple - told via stories of what was happening during that time period for the most part.
  But many people tend to spend an inordinate amount of time translating each scripture, each book. Sometimes I think we're too busy climbing the mountain to open our eyes and look around.
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Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago
Besides, in Jeremiah the Bible tells us the heart is "deceitful above all things".........so we have to check our hearts, so-to-speak, with what the word of God says.

But as far as organized religion, I too believe it should be more simplistic and simple, not so involved and ritualistic.
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Rafiniposted 14 years ago
Religion brought us Science which is organized thinking at its core. Without organization where would the world be today?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Religion brought us science?
  
  Can you prove that?
  
  Imagination brought about Science.
  
  Imagination also brought Religion.
  
  Imagination is "what" propels human beings into the future.
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually yes...Astronomy is the oldest of the natural sciences, dating back to antiquity, with its origins in the religious, mythological, and astrological practices of pre-history.
  
  The beginnings of chemistry, or alchemy, as it was first known, are mingled with occultism and magic. Not Christian religion but religion non the less.
  
  From Wikipedia: Some modern scholars, such as Fielding H. Garrison, are of the opinion that modern geology began in the medieval Islamic world.[3] Geber (Jabir ibn Hayyan, 721-815 AD) is credited with the discovery of crystallization as a purification process, an important contribution to crystallography.[4] Abu al-Rayhan al-Biruni (973-1048 AD) was one of the earliest Muslim geologists, whose works included the earliest writings on the geology of India, hypothesizing that the Indian subcontinent was once a sea
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  Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol its quite obvious we think differently, cagsil.
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  purpleangel47posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We all think differently Rafini. But that doesn't make either one of us an authority - as a matter of fact I think it brings us closer together. Or it could. Our imaginations - our varied imaginations are what's so attractive about the human race. Think how boring it would be without it.
  And that's also what spurred my original question. When something is too organized, for me, it removes any hope of imagination - and what kind of future would this nation have without it?
  
  Thank you for responding
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  Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was referring to another discussion Cagsil and I have had recently. Another discussion where we disagree on a scale as wide as this one and the fact that I wasn't going to get into it here. (if he read my post I'm sure he understood lol)
  
  I am quite different than you too, I need the organization in order to see my imagination. Like I said, where would the world be today without organization? Or, for that matter, imagination? The world needs what humans have to offer.
  
  Personally, I don't think the imagination is what's so attractive about the human race. What makes the human race attractive is the ability to think. (in whatever form suits the individual)
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  bwenzel100posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  God created science to keep us entertained. Ever notice that every time we get close to knowing something to be true it get's disproved. There is more hard fact that support of creationism than there is of evolution!
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  Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've noticed that too!
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Disproving what?
  
  What hard facts of creationism?
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  wildernessposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you're confused between being disproved and finding that what we thought wasn't the whole story. Science "facts" have been disproven but seldom - instead they are refined, or sometimes expanded.
  
  For instance everyone knows that a hard boiled egg takes about 5 minutes and a soft boiled egg takes about 3 minutes. Try it at perhaps 15,000 elevation or in a sea habitat pressurized to 2 or 3 atmospheres. The idea of 5 and 3 minutes needs expanding; it only works at sea level.
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  Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand what cooking has to do with creation vs evolution....
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  wildernessposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I often don't explain very well, I think. The concepts behind the theory of evolution are not debatable, and I seriously doubt that there is a scientist alive today that would deny them. Animals and plants DO change with time - we can observe and check many of the tools used by evolution and can even force some of them. It is now considered factual.
  
  At the same time, small parts of the ideas in the general theory CAN and DO change with additional information. Neanderthal man was not considered an ancestor of man in the past, although few would have made the claim as a firm fact. We now know better - we carry some of his genes. A small, specific part of the general theory must change, just as the egg timer needs changing with altitude.
  
  Proponents of creationism often push the idea that because the theory of evolution is not a complete, factual concept in every specific it is untrue and/or silly in it's entirety. The specifics of evolution will never be know in entirety until a time machine is invented and billions of years of study of every possible organism is followed from it's beginning to then-current times. That does not mean the general theory is wrong - it means we will never know every single specific fact. We will never know exactly how many creatures donated genes between "Lucy" and myself.
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  oceansnsunsetsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Excellent point, Rafini
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aguasilverposted 14 years ago
1 Corinthians 14:33

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
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ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago
organization is a natural process, eventually everything organizes from randomness. i think this is the second law of thermodynamics.
religion organized from sporadic passionate expressions of belief because well like organisms with tend to gather among things that are like us, and then we become units. that's how cells became complex organisms, they started out as individual cells and they formed a community and they became one complex structure.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nope.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes you are right Q, (well what do you know, you know your thermodynamic laws!)
  
  it is the reverse of enthropy.
  It is actually the contradiction of the second law of thermodynamics.
  
  Because biological structures do organize from randomness. The theory of evolution contradicts the second law of thermodynamics.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, a great deal more about physics, too. It's important to understand the world around us especially when those who pretend to understand attempt to tell us how they view the world.
  
  Yes, that is the classic false claim from believers who don't understand it. I suspected you would support it, too.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  its just a contradiction because the second law of thermodynamics applies in a closed system.
  
  as for what is running the show, well the lifeforms are actively seeking energy, organizing to more efficiently usurp energy from the environment because they are conscious. life forms have varying scales of intelligence and survival instincts.
  
  just like religion is organizing to usurp money for survival of its systems. its all about getting as much sources of energy and organizing makes that more efficient.
  
  so go on and pursue that topic see if it proves your worldview.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but we've already established you don't understand those laws.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  no we didn't. we established that i got confused. all you said was nope. I corrected myself.
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ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago
just the same, biological structures do organize from simple structures and gather to form more complex structures. and that is called evolution theory, the contradiction of the second law of thermodynamics. (which means, something maintains life?...uhoh, could it be G-d you think?)
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Shil1978posted 14 years ago
The only reason I can think of is to ensure propagation, to enlist new recruits into the religion. Of course, there is also a certain class of people that benefit from organized religion!!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  not only religion organizes, fans club self-organize. that is what meet-up.com is all about. when a large group is drawn to the same source of energy they cluster. its a natural phenomenon.
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Audreveaposted 14 years ago
Old Christianity under Rome was considered to be suspiciously secretive and they wondered if something a bit dodgy was going on... so they made up lurid stories (as people do).

I think once Constantine got behind it and Christianity became institutionalised... that was the beginning of a true power base.

Organised isn't necessarily bad though and from the dark ages through to the middle ages and beyond, ordinary people weren't highly literate. If you were to believe in Christian teaching, you had to be told about it somehow.
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Why does religion have to be so organized?

Hi friends

The Creator- God Allah YHWH has attributes which manifest with a system; man is in the image of the Creator- God Allah YHWH so he should try to get organized within the freedom he has been given by the Creator- God Allah YHWH as per the scheme of the things.

I express what I believe with reasons; others freely could differ with me with reasons.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately, you've no truth behind your words, but then again, you claim much without backing it up. So, what else is new.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You provide no reasons. Perhaps your English is not so good? Perhaps you do not know what is "reason"?
  
  Thank you
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Onusonusposted 14 years ago
Isaiah provided the reason for organized religion when he made this prediction:
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
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SpanStarposted 14 years ago
I'll give you one reason why religion and most things are complex and confusing...MAN

Thank God he decided how mankind would be saved because if it were left up to man we would be jumping through some many hoops pretty much no one would make it.

It seems that you take the simpliest thing and give to mankind that simple thing would no longer be simple.

I asked a bank employee just a couple of weeks ago if money was taken out of my checking account...I keep getting this what I call pre-record response about reimburse your account and some other jargon that didn't make sense...after 3 or 4 times "Was Money Taken Out Of My Account?" Finally "Yes" That's all I was looking was it or wasn't it-MAN!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And all the time people think like this - we will never change.
  
  Nonsensical assertions that it will all be OK becoz god dunnit is precisely what the small elite that make all the money persuading us to consume everything in sight want.
  
  Monotheistic religions rely on sheeple like you to think they have no control. This is why the idea of an invisible super being in the sky was created in the first place.
  
  Because if you think you have no control - then you have no control. I mean - look at "Onus on us" who has given up and expects the "Onus on some one else" to majikally do something.
  
  Jerami spends all his energy trying to decipher what the "prophecies" mean and the rest of us fight over the whole idea.
  
  A belief in god teaches you not to think for yourself and ensures no moral development. None.
  
  Who lives in this house?
  
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, trying to convince a Mormon that the temple is a bad place is like jerking off to pictures of dead babies, only an atheist can pull it off.
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SpanStarposted 14 years ago
Mark K.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here or even if you're comments are directed towards me.

When if comes to change we are always changing it's just most of the time it's not for the good.

It's been what about what 2,000 years and we still are trying to figure out how to be better people??
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In Gods world..
  Its all about respecting one another. Compassion,. That is all GOd and his son was doing. And, they got rudely interrupted.
  
  "May we all have peace be in our hearts and we have strength, wisdom, plus may Gods love and grace be within us all. We are truly special people thank you God for giving us so much beauty in our world and for our beautiful days, etc in your precious name and in your sons precious name, Amen"
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is it compassionate to send non-believers to hell? Is it compassionate to allow tens of thousands of children to die of starvation every day? Is this the compassion in your gods world, because it is a reality with believers.
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It depends on how the non-believers act. That determines where your soul goes. Its a shame of starving children. I was specifying how to treat others.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, it doesn't. Your god will send me to hell regardless of how I act. He wants obedience and worship, just like a murderous despot demands.
  
  Yes, it is, your god is shameful for letting it happen.
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  God is hurting as well. It is ashame you feel that way. God is a loving God he wouldn't hurt you. And, you have all wrong. Your actions will get to hell. He forgives attitudes and mistakes when you own up to them.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nonsense, if your god has the power to create a universe, he can certainly provide food for the starving.
  
  Sorry, but that's not what your religion states. Please read your scriptures if you haven't done so yet.
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have..
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then, you should be well aware that your god will send me to hell for not obeying and worshiping him.
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  English - do you speak it?
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I understand your sadness and all the reasons you listed for being sad.
  
  Tell you what, nikki1, let me provide for you such an airtight argument in your favor, no one else shall ever have the last word. It may very well be one of the most important things you'll ever learn from an atheist. Enjoy.
  
  "Non-Christians often ask the Christian, “But how can the God of love allow any of his creatures to suffer unending misery?” The question is, how can he not? The fact that God is love makes hell necessary. “Hell,” as E. L. Mascall once said, “is not compatible with God’s love; it is a direct consequence of it.” That was his way of stressing the fact that the very God who loves us is the one who respects our decisions. He loves us, but he does not force his love on us. To force love is to commit assault. He allows us to decide. He loves us, he encourages our response, he woos us, he pursues us, he urges us, but he does not force us, because he respects us."
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (Q)
  2908 posts
  Joined: 2 years ago
  Hubs: 3
  Followers: 21
  nikki1 wrote:
  I have..
  
  Then, you should be well aware that your god will send me to hell for not obeying and worshiping him.
  
  Posted 5 hours agoreplypermalinkreport"
  
  This is why I am sad. Also, he isn't my God, he's every ones. He has billions of kids all over the world. You are one of them.
  I just believe in him.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then, why does he let tens of thousands of his kids die of starvation every day? Why can't he do anything about that?
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  PhoenixVposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe God created millions of human beings to take care of starving children. After all, some have computers and time and the wherewith all to do it. But it seems they are too busy "passing the buck" and trying to absolve their own culpability.
  
  They usually enjoy their own life , they will fight to the death to preserve their own life, yet never seem grateful that their own life is a gift , whether they believe it was given by God or not .
  
  Human beings tend to selfishly "want" . They especially "want" someone else to -do whats right- for them.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, how is it such that you could ever believe such a ridiculous notion? What possible reason is there for god to create one group of humans to feed another? Why doesn't he just feed everyone? Isn't that discrimination? Does he hate those people? Is there something wrong with them? Why has his plan failed so miserably and why doesn't he fix it? How many more children must endure abject poverty and starvation before your god does something about it?
  
  Then clearly and by your own admission, it must be the good ole Christians of America who are the most selfish of all, as they are the only ones who "get" what they "want" while others perish for their "want"
  
  Any more failed justifications?
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  PhoenixVposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Q:
  
  And, how is it such that you could ever believe such a ridiculous notion? What possible reason is there for God to create one group of humans to feed another?
  
  Phoenix:
  
  Personal responsibility isn't a ridiculous notion. Neither is altruism.
  
  Q:
  
  Why doesn't he just feed everyone?"...."Why has his plan failed so miserably and why doesn't he fix it?
  
  Phoenix:
  
  Because it wouldn't be life ,it would never end . A constant micromanagement on Gods part would negate life.
  
  As far as a "failed plan" if it werent working so well you wouldnt have time to complain or complain at all for that matter.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, you have no answers, then? Why are you bothering to post?
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  http://www.worldvision.org/worldvision/master.nsf/
  
  http://www.fh.org/home.html
  
  http://www.christiandisasterrelief.org/CDRHome.cfm
  
  http://missionofmercy.org/
  
  http://www.ob.org/
  
  Do you need more references?
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  PhoenixVposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Mr Dent for the links to those services. In fair play do you have any links to an Atheist General Hospital or an Atheist Feed The Children Organization?
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://earthward.org/mission.shtml
  
  http://www.foundationbeyondbelief.org/node
  
  http://fellowshipoffreethought.org/
  
  http://www.iheu.org/
  
  Here are a few that I found. I did not click any of the links here or my previous post.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course, that has nothing to do with the question I asked. Why can't your god feed the children, why does he feed you instead of them?
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I told you why in the comments to one of your few hubs, you should read your comments box more often.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Would that be the response in which you passed responsibility onto a mythical third party; ie. Satan? Yes, I read that. Thanks.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, of course, SirDent never has answers. Thanks for nothing, once again, SirDent.
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Correction: on the "he isn't my God".
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, you have no answers either?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you do not want to get on the wagon that takes ya out of the forest fire? Is it the fault of the horse that is pulling the wagon, if you get burned?????
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Aww - and there ya am bein am liginist agin.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not so much. All you are doing is parroting garbage. Did you even go to school?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No. We are not trying because we have all the answers - and all the time people like you think god will majically fix it, we never will.
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SpanStarposted 14 years ago
Well Tell me something Mark K. If mankind is so great as you believe they are then why are the jails filled with evil people? Why are women and children afraid to walk the streets these 2,000 years later. Why are we ready to blow ourselves up with all the bombs we have.

You're saying that just having faith in God cause the Godless to act this way?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It causes all of us to act this way, yes. How about we change and try and deal with it instead of hanging onto this divisive belief system that will always cause conflict?
  
  We could be great. If we get rid of the three things holding us back.
  
  Religion. Nationalism. Money.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think John Lennon is spinning in his grave, hearing his words repeated by Hubpages' most divisive element, Mark Knowles.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Prisons are full of Christians.
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  SpanStarposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christains have always been placed in prisons. Pretty much most true believers feel this is a faith they can't avoid.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I think it implies that non-believers are less likely to be criminals, since they only make up less than one percent of the prison population.
  
  Do you know what a strawman fallacy is?
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, they haven't been "placed" into prisons, they have been convicted of the crimes they've committed. They have been determined unsafe to be in society. No morals.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Just in case you missed it--it is not the Godless who are ready to blow themselves up with bombs. It's the people with faith.
  
  During 10 years in Sing-Sing, those executed for murder were 65% Catholics,
  26% Protestants, 6% Hebrew, 2% Pagan, and less than 1% non-religious.
  
  Religion is not the guardian of morals.
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  SpanStarposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The point being here is it really are the Christains who are in control when in come to blowing up the planet.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not really. There are some atheists as well. And there are some odd Christians. However, a true Christian helps/encourages. Gives strength,.
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Opps, my bad
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SpanStarposted 14 years ago
I agree with 2 of the points areas we could eliminate but mankind isn't smart enough nor will we ever be smart enough to create a better world because it is not in our nature.

I pointed this out once before, people have to be taught has to act good- we don't have to taught how to behave badly.

Tell a scientist not to created clones and you just might as well be talking to a wall.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rubbish. You religionists have been persuaded we are not smart enough, and as I said in the first place -
  
  "And all the time people think like this - we will never change.
  
  Nonsensical assertions that it will all be OK becoz god dunnit is precisely what the small elite that make all the money persuading us to consume everything in sight want. "
  
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SpanStarposted 14 years ago
Believe in mankind if you want but a lot of people's lives ended early because they dic so:

American Civil War
Germany against the world
Japan against America
World War I
World War II
Vietnam, etc

Well I don't need to list all of them.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. Sorry - what is your point? Where was your majikal belief in a super being here exactly? Did the religious put a stop to this? LOLOLO The crusades, the colonization of the Amerikas, the destruction of the indigenous populations. Money, religion, nationalism.
  
  Oh - you mean you do no know that the same people in charge of the religions own the armament factories. Dear me. Still - not to worry - it will all be OK in the end becoz god sed so.
  
  All you are doing is defending your ridiculous belief. This is what your religion teaches you.
  
  Sheeple.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.theamericansheeple.com
  
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ouch! But on the money.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And I bet all of them are convinced they're thinking for themselves.
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Ruce Otterposted 14 years ago
Religion does not have to be nor should it be organized.

One's relationship with one's god is and should be a personal and private affair. Even Christ felt that way:

Matthew 6:1 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

2 “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
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  purpleangel47posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you very much for your comment Ruce Otter.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
come on now, Atheists are Sheeple too.

"Positive Pimpin`" - Eddie Griffin
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure - some of them are - no question. Nationalism and money are pretty powerful also.
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awareposted 14 years ago
Is it? Are they? Seems to me its disorder .How can one own disorder?
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ?
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awareposted 14 years ago
Song lyrics
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awareposted 14 years ago
Men pen books.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Prophets speak by the power of the Holy Spirit, therefore they speak the words of Christ.
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nicely put
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's how the Bible was written!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How would you know? You take it on faith.
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is written and we believe in the Bible.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, like I said before and I will repeat myself. Your belief in the bible is misplaced and you do not even know nor can you tell the difference.
  
  It's quite funny, people belief in a man-made written book, supposedly about some god, which only lives in a spiritual place.
  
  Ironic, Jesus was completely against the religious establishment/rulers of his time and he himself told his followers that "religion's god" was a false idol.
  
  Jesus' work was stolen by religious leaders/rulers, so as to not expose the hoax of the god of religion. Therefore, you cannot differentiate between what god to follow. It was done on purpose and is the sole reason for the existence of Christianity.
  
  They DID NOT have Jesus' approval, but didn't need it because they had already executed him for no crime.
  
  Do a little background before you blindly believe something to be true.
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Prove this. Again, I believe in Jesus. He was loyal to his community. He would never betray his father. Or say such
  things to his followers. Where is this written.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nikki, you need to get out more. Go to a library, do a little book reading on ancient world history and ancient religious history.
  
  Look at the time frame Jesus lived. Look at how advanced humankind was not. Then, look at who was ruling?
  
  Compare Jesus' execution and notice when Christianity came about.
  
  You might not like what you find.
  
  Jesus' work - "kingdom of heaven" meant Earth.
  Jesus' work - "hell" dead and buried in the ground
  Jesus' work - "kingdom of god" power within yourself.
  Jesus' work - "god" + "holy spirit" was for each follower to focus on themselves and nothing more.
  Jesus' work - being god in your own life, through loving yourself and compassion for others.
  
  The "father" was a metaphor, thus describing leadership quality.
  
  No god required.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then explain why Jesus said: worship the Father, not Him?
  
  "Love the Lord your Abba (Daddy, Father) -who is in heaven- with ALL your heart and your fellow human exactly as you love yourself"
  
  -was he being metaphoric on this point only and not on the other points. Just curious.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's where you'll run into a problem, father was leadership, because he didn't want to be seen as an idol. Be a leader in your own life - enter the kingdom of god- by ruling your thoughts and actions, while learning to love oneself and have compassion for those who do not know how to.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have to disagree, that would make him the leader, father. he repeatedly worshiped the Father -publicly & privately, in the company of both his followers and the teachers of the law. This disputes the individuality idea -like that of islam.
  
  He said, there is no greater love, than to lay down ones life to/for a friend -this negates individual ideology.
  
  There are 12 gates to the new jeru, but only once entrance.
  It is an ever increasing, eternal kingdom of rightness/proper image of oneself through Creators eyes, not ours. Peace that supersedes all consciousness and joy beyond words...
  
  The only way to enter is by action of pure heart -faith.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ps, the kingdom is not in your head -its in your heart/spirit.
  your brain is just the transmitter between spirit/body -heaven/earth. This was Adam (heaven/earth), this is Y`shua (undivided heaven earth).
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You assume too much.
  
  Where did I say head? Please point it out to me.
  
  You live within your conscience, with integrity, and you'll learn to love yourself and other human beings. Loving your fellow human beings is compassion also. Even if they do not have it for you, because they themselves do not know any better.
  
  Please, take your bible knowledge and throw it out the window. Because your religious study did nothing for you, because you were working off the wrong information.
  
  The power one seeks is within oneself. The control they want over their life, is always within their own power, however, unrealized.
  
  The natural progression for humanity is to be all about self improvement, so they can faith in their own ability and believe they can achieve anything they put their mind to it.
  
  End of story. No god required.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hey, I'm not your therapist.
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  nikki1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Only in their minds, when they actually speak, they are most likely giving their opinion, without any objectivity whatsoever.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is a diffrence between a prophet and a wanna be!
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What difference, exactly? And, how would you know he was an impostor?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think that you/I will. Did John Wayne ever have to tell anyone that he was tough! A prophet will never come declaring himself as one. The proof in in the pudding as they say. The prophet has no worth, any more than anyone else.
  
  A piece of paper is a piece of paper... it is the words written on the paper that determines if it needs to be kept or thrown in the trash.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly. Nuff said.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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SpanStarposted 14 years ago
Just one of many points.

In all of mankind's history I have heard of only Man Ever To Walk On Water and The Discipline he called out the boat but sure Jesus was holding him up.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Try the Hindu religion Span Star. If you want to encompass mankind's history on miraculous deeds you need to expand your religious knowledge. Jesus didn't have a monopoly in this field.
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  SpanStarposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jewel as an Atheist how would know what Jesus had?
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  Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who said I'm an atheist?
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
(Q) wrote:
And, how is it such that you could ever believe such a ridiculous notion? What possible reason is there for god to create one group of humans to feed another? Why doesn't he just feed everyone? Isn't that discrimination? Does he hate those people? Is there something wrong with them? Why has his plan failed so miserably and why doesn't he fix it? How many more children must endure abject poverty and starvation before your god does something about it?

Then clearly and by your own admission, it must be the good ole Christians of America who are the most selfish of all, as they are the only ones who "get" what they "want" while others perish for their "want"

Any more failed justifications?

=============================================

Jerami said... You would be absolutely correct "IF" life here on this earth was all that there is.
You would be absolutely correct "IF" this physical life were the prize.

"IF" there is nothing better than this after death;
that would also mean that there is no God for you to blame for letting the children die.
And if there is a God to blame; those that have died go to a better place. thus nothing to blame God for.

You can not have it both ways.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  More non-answers, thank Jerami.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess that some people just can not see the sun rise.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No Jerami, Christians can't answer hard questions that contradict their faith. Simple, really.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No; Christians can't answer the questions in a way that you can understand. Christians won't answer the way thay you want them to.
  When you do not want to understand .. you can not.
  Why ask a question that you know you do not want an answer to?
  
  It is really obvious. You controll the conversation by changing the subject. Turn it into an arguement with you instead of a conversation betweem them. Maybe you are jealous?
  For you it is about controll.
  
  I see it in my back yard all the time.
  A group of Blue Jays come in chasing all the other birds away from the bird feeder. They don't want any of the seeds. The Blue Jays just don't want the other birds to have any. I have even seen them chasing chicken hawks and and dogs away.
  
  I guess the Blue Jays consider these to be trouble makers.
  and are defending their territory.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nonsense Jerami, you're making up excuses and furthering the hypocrisy of Christians. This isn't about me, Jerami, no matter how hard you want to turn it around and make it about me.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who is it about when the Blue Jays are chasing the Chicken Hawk away.
  The Blue Jays or the Chicken hawk?
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How about the Christians chasing the starving children away to get all the food from Jesus? Get real, Jerami.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If that were the case; it seems that you are chasing them back across the fence.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wha??? Where did you see this happen?
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
No answer so I'm going to bed Night yaul.
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(Q)posted 14 years ago
We can once again throw these and other hard questions on the massive pile of hard questions Christians cannot answer. Well done. Keep believing, you know not why.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  because you hard of hearing does not mean that answers wern't given.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can hear fine, especially the lies of Christians when they speak.
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Merlin Fraserposted 14 years ago
I think the question was “Why does religion have to be so organized?”

My question is why does no one actually try to answer the question without getting into, yet another “I believe,” “I don’t believe,” shit slinging contest ?

Surely the answer is fairly obvious, or at least it is to me.
Religion has to be organized with lots of rules and rituals that have to be repeated, daily, doubly so on special occasions this is how train the mind to accept the will of those setting the rules and rituals. In this way you can keep the mind closed and prevent it from challenging those in authority.

It is so easy to divide and conquer the human mind, religion is not about God or Faith it’s about Power and who has.

It and it is not until you take the mythical image of God and the promise of better things to come out of the equation that you can actually free your mind to accept the fact that man created religion and they use God as a weapon of mental suppression.

I know they didn’t have coffee 2 – 5,000 years ago but we do so for pity’s sake wake up and smell it and take back your life and start thinking for yourself.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree, the human spirit needs constant nourishment otherwise the straight path becomes corupted and we fall into an apostate condition, we start to make up our own rules and forget about the guidlines which were set by God from the begining.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I rest my case !
  
  For constant nourishment read, interference.
  
  For apostate condition , read free thinker.
  
  Sorry to be the one that has to point out that those who proclaim they speak the word of God have been making up the rules for centuries.
  It was also the same people who came up with the original guidelines as you call them...
  
  'Heads Up' There are a lot of us who worked out for ourselves that
  'Thou Shalt Not Kill' is a pretty good idea without any spiritual nourishment or outside help other than a good upbringing.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Yep, he definitely proved your case.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dude you are just trying to divide and conquor, So it's ok for modern scientists, historians, mathmaticians and the like to gather together to build in knowledge, but religious people are stupid for doing the same thing.
  Double standard.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not sure who Dude is but I'll answer for him if you like.
  
  Science deals with testing and proving facts. As mankind has developed he has stretched his mind to seek out answers and to challenge past theories and develop new theories that will challenge those who will come after us.
  
  I'm sorry but I don't see any religious group doing anything like that, rather the opposite in fact. They seem to want to cling to the past in endless repetition of things past down to them. That is not gathering knowledge that is just going round in circles. This is why we still have the Flat Earth Society, Creationists and people who still think the Sun and the stars revolve around the Earth.
  
  Scientists challenge each other all the time that is how science progresses, but I don’t see or hear any church goers challenging their leaders. For instance the Bible is full of stories of God talking to man but nobody seems to wonder why God has been silent for a few thousand years. Or why a couple of thousand years ago the Jewish people were praying for a Messiah to help rid them of the Roman invaders. The Christians reckoned they got one and went on their merry way while the rest of the Jewish population is still waiting. Don’t they know the Romans have gone or what ?
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As much as you would like to think that the point of religion is to cling to the past, I see people every Sunday, learning from the past, preparing for the future, growing in their thoughts and beliefs, and building on their personal integrity. While imperfect people exercise their right to gather together in a peacefull manner to worship a perfect God, they continue to develop praiseworthy, and Christlike attributes, their children are raised with the strongest family values, they seek to improve worldly conditions by feeding the hungry, and providing humanitarian aid from country to country. I have yet to see the "Freedom from religion foundation" come close to providing a grain of charity to anyone in dire circumstances like the Christian community does. All of this is done by people who support organized religion. It is just a fact of life that you can do more, and be more efficient when you are a strong body of people dedicated to a rightous cause.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Onusonus,
  
  End of discussion,
  
  If you believe that only the religious have compassion and are capable of charity then there is no point in even trying to talk to you. By your narrow minded response you insult every person who fails to support a religious faith but nonetheless digs deep into their pockets every time there is a natural disaster anywhere in the world or supports great charities like UNICEF or the Red Cross.
  
  Go to countries like Africa and South America and see your charity at work, these continents contain some of the poorest countries in the world in spite of their strong religious backgrounds, where is your ‘perfect’ God ? I have lived there and work there and many other impoverished countries as well so please don’t preach to me about only the Godly doing good work.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  While I appreciate the meger efforts of nondenominational causes, they still pail in comparison to the efforts of religious organizations that consistantly pour their resources into the aid of third world countries and their home countries. We cure diseases, we feed the hungry, we shelter the homless, and cloth the naked, most of all it is the churches that teach morals to the people, and they bring the light of Christ to the starving soul.
  I couldn't imagine what the world would be like if there were no religious organizations around to support these people, but I guarantee that the world would be a wasted existance without the hope of eternal life.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think the saddest thing about you and your insulting comments is you actually believe them.
  
  I'm still trying to work out which brainwashed splinter group you're trying to promote as the one with all the answers the only one that can save the world.
  
  The world doesn't YOU to cure diseases, or YOU to feed the hungry or YOU to shelter the homeless and YOU to clothe the naked...
  
  What the people of the world needs is to be taught how to cure, feed, house and clothe themselves.
  
  As I tried to point out to you earlier, take a look at Africa.... your charity solves nothing and teaching them how to pray before teaching them how to plough is just plain stupid.. but Please keep trying they will take your charity they don't understand why you're doing it but they will takee it afterall it beats the Hell out of actually working.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  If we do not feed them and only teach them to plow and care for their gardens, will not they all die of starvation before harvest?
  
  This is what gets to me. You say we shouldn't feed the starving children, but then you will turn around and speak about how we let them starve. It gets to a point where you want to just argue against anything just simple because we believe in Jesus.
  
  How do you know they are taught how to pray before they are fed?
  
  I also wonder if there has ever been a time in your life that you needed a helping hand from someone.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why doesn't your god feed them? He feeds you, right?
  
  Would it matter, wouldn't one simply pray to god to get help? Isn't that what Christians do? Aren't there plenty of threads open here with people who are desperate for prayers to save their loved ones from dying? Where are the prayers for the starving children, SirDent? Why are they not working?
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If I was hungry, I wouldn't ask you for anything.
  
  Why not get back on topic to what I posted earlier.
  
  The point is that chirstian organizations feed starving children all around the world. Some think it is bad to do so.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know, you would pray to your god for food.
  
  No, the point is that Christians thank their gods for their abundance while others starve to death. That IS the point, SirDent.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I suspect I have been around a great deal longer than you have, and perhaps, just perhaps in over forty years of travelling the world have seen a great deal too.
  
  I know your way doesn't work because you are doing and saying the same things today as your predecessors were forty- fifty years ago and when you look at the poor countries you claim to support I see little or no difference.
  
  Not sure I understand your point about me just wanting to argue against anything just simply because you believe in Jesus..... You could believe in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy for all I care makes no difference to me how you choose to waste your life or time, all I said was don’t preach at me.
  
  How do I know they are taught how to pray before they are taught anything ? I guess it maybe because I have been there and seen it firsthand. Perhaps because the first English they seem to learn is from the bible and they all go around singing Jesus wants me for a Sun-beam.
  
  The point I was originally trying to make was being religious does not give you the monopoly on charitable deeds, thoughts or acts any more than being Godless prevents people from doing things purely as an act of charity.
  
  You see I don’t need a God to tell me what to do or how to live. I choose to do good things because I know it is the right thing to do. If you, or anyone else for that matter, asks me for help if it is within my power I will help that person. I do not need to know his religious believes or faith, it is none of my business nor should it be yours.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  true, those who have everything are the most cursed of all. They do not know what they lack and so cannot fulfill their divine desire to create.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I had intended to drag down the picture of the old woman in the bed and Jesus sitting at her side not answering her request.
  May be me but i couldn't do it.
  
  Sometimes his greatest gift is those unanswered requests.
  We just can't always see that.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So true.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  glad you understand the paradox
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My whole life has been a paradox.
  I'm not sure if paradox is the right word.... Maybe kaleieoscope. If ya don't like what ya see just turn a knob. Unfortunately when it turns out that ya liked the other one better you will never get that one back.
  
  Don't know where that thought came from?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  light does not travel backwards.
  
  you know what, regrets are pointless. Niether is it about what you like in life. its about what you learn.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well said, sir.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  republican
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Try to imagine a world without fear, hatred and the fact that the only reason why religious organizations help others is to recruit. There ya go.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Start with yourself. Your hatred shows everytime you post. Since when is feeding starving children such a bad thing?
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's a great idea, when is your god going to get around to feeding the starving children and spend less time tending to the needs of the good Christians of this forum? When?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, God specifically assigned the task of feeding the starving to you and me.
  
  What are you doing about it besides complaining that God isn't doing it all Himself?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  still wondering why you -like others- are so concerned about something you claim is based on 'nothing'... as for your statement here, "imagine a world" odd, because your other post for a prayer request is dripping with hate and fear. Seems atheism is the new racist.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How can a request to gods for not giving people cancer be considered hate and fear? New racist? But, seriously, folks...
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So YOUR neophyte Antagonist alternative to that request was fear based, rude, cold, void of ANY compassion. That, by any measure is called racism. So enjoy your self deflecting, finger pointing, contempt for your fellow man, Q. Your charm has worn itself out.
  
  Good day, sir.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It was completely based on compassion, that was the entire point of the request.
  
  Perhaps, you may need to reacquaint yourself with that definition. Was I being "racist" towards a god? LOL.
  
  It is the contempt for my fellow man that I'm trying to protect from religions. Many believers here have made it quite clear their fellow man means absolutely nothing in light of worshiping their gods.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Finger pointing again? What a joke.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where did I point fingers?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "many believers"
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  At this point, James. It's sometimes best to talk about food or nail polish.
  
  I really really now see that there is really a firmament that separates the waters above from the waters below you know. Some people really really can't cross these walls of light. They just don't have the foundational interconnections in their brain for such things to make sense.
  
  I now see how that the knowledge remained obscure even if it is saying the nature of reality in the most plain words you can perhaps use.
  
  It is just so demanding to the human who is besieged by the inputs of the senses to ignore the senses and perceive from the universe within...and we can, we can look at the macroscopic by looking at the microscopic! It happens everyday with mathematics!
  
  There was a podcast from an aware speaker who said : You cannot say to another, here come to the light. For each would come to the light in their own time and readiness.
  
  It's just not possible to transfer this understanding. You cannot short cut it. The person has to have done the work. Otherwise it is a total waste of time!
  
  A person must volunteer to learn this knowledge and seek it. It is just impossible to show the hidden light behind the darkness. But darkness come in shades of light too.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This IDEA is so typical of post adolescents. The idea that you can blame some generalized "other" for social maladies and exclude yourself from the solution is so typically teen.
  
  "It's your fault that my friends hate me mom, you're so uncool!"
  
  The REASONING is comparable to that coming from an unpopular teen blaming his parents for his sorry social status in school.
  
  Step up or just shut up. That's what I'll say to teeny bopper who continues to blame others for the ills they see in their social lives.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The IDEA truly truly is infantile.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Thanks, dude
  
  That was a true, rational, well articulated response.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not a problem homie.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi getitrite,
  
  I'm a late comer to this debate so forgive me for asking who is this 'Dude' to whom you keep referring and perhaps then I could decipher on which side of the fence your response is supposed to be.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He was calling me "Dude." I called him Dude and then he thought it would be funny to throw it back at me.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Merlin
  
  Please look in the right top corner, and set your page to chronological instead of threaded. The threaded version sucks.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  consider it done !
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MickSposted 14 years ago
it is patently obvious why religion is organised, it is the same as any establishment body, organisation makes it easier to control the population, the hierarchy of any religious body is no different to the hierarchy of any government or company, it is the people who make a nation, it is the people who make a church, not the people in charge.
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SpanStarposted 14 years ago
Oh Yea...Christian Believers Are Nothing But Crack Pots...How Can These Lost Minded People Believe In Superstition? It Is Crazy To Support That Which Isn't Fact And Scientific.

WHAT A BUNCH OF HOGWASH

If Science Is So Perfect Then Why Are People Intelligent People, Science Mind People Stepping Up To The Plate And Taking The Next Experimental Drug. Below They Are Coming Out With A Pill To Extend Your Life 30 Years So I Expect To See People Flying To This Opportunity.

After That Are A Listing Of Scientific Blunders -Not Enough Room To List Them All
Trust My Life To These People....GIVE ME SUPERSTITION

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic … years.html

A scientist is developing a pill that could add 30 years to the human lifespan, it has emerged.
Professor John Speakman has been awarded £450,000 to investigate how the hormone thyroxine can affect metabolism rates and rid the body of free radicals, thereby extending life.
The University of Aberdeen has already identified that mice with a higher metabolic rate

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic … z0q80HGKTH
-------------------------------------------------------------
Scientific Blunders:
http://academicconnections.ucsd.edu/pro … lunder.cfm

* Galileo, who (although generally a scientific genius) spent years trying to prove a false theory of the tides

*Ptolemy, whose elaborate cosmological scheme placed the Earth at the center of the universe and allowed astronomers to make accurate predictions for centuries to come
---------------------------------
long kept quiet—that Mr. So-Called Charles Darwin, with his dumb beard and his dumb theories, born 200 years ago this very year, was wrong. Not just a little bit wrong. A lot wrong. Wronger than a bluetick hound on moonshine. Wronger than a Dixie Chick wearing a blindfold. And he could, additionally, be a real pain in the you-know-where about it.

http://discovermagazine.com/2009/nov/da … -for-world
---------------------------------
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Let me get this straight. You are defending your utterly ridiculous beliefs based on the fact that there are some insane scientists?
  
  Is this the same as it is OK that Christians are murderers and baby rapers because an atheist killed some one?
  
  WHAT A BUNCH OF IRRATIONAL HOGWASH
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whoever said science is perfect ? Who said science has all the answers ? Not me that’s for sure.
  
  “....that Mr. So-Called Charles Darwin .....” So Called ? Don’t understand that one, he was called Charles Darwin, that was his name and far from being wrong the greater part of his original theory of evolution by natural selection has been proven fact. Even the Vatican has acknowledged and accepted Darwin’s version maybe be a little more accurate than the theory of creation in the Bible. Which, by the way the Genesis version was correct then that would put man and the Dinosaur on the face of the planet at the same time. Isn’t it funny how none of the other powers around at the time, the Greeks or the Egyptians noticed or failed to mention seeing them.
  
  Get a grip...
  
  Science isn’t perfect and all scientific theory is open for challenge, that’s the difference, anyone can challenge scientific theory if you have a better theory....Great.... Prove it !
  
  Spouting the same old stuff every Sunday doesn’t make it fact and proves nothing.
  
  It isn’t an ‘Us’ or ‘Them’ thing, or at least not for me it isn’t. I’m not a man of science but I like to think I have an open and enquiring mind. For me I am satisfied that there is no such thing as God because when I leave the God factor out of the equation I discovered how much more sense things became.
  
  So it is with Darwin’s book, assuming you have even read it, or are you just spouting someone else’s Creationist rhetoric ? In spite of popular misconception Darwin did not set out to disprove the existence of God, in actual fact he was deeply troubled by his own observations and findings and the impact that it would have. So much so he delayed making public for many, many years.
  
  All I ask you and any other person, is set God to one side, just for a moment and read the book and when you take into consideration what man does in the breeding and cross breeding of domestic animals then you will realise that Darwin makes perfect sense.
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SpanStarposted 14 years ago
You know, when Jesus was captured and taken to be judged by men I thought for a long time why didn't Jesus defend himself. If anyone had the knowledge and ability to express himself so that all could clearly understand it would be Jesus but I believe it was a pastor who better helped me to understand.

These men Didn't Care What Jesus Had To Say-They Wanted To Kill Him So It Didn't Matter What Jesus Said.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AND according to scripture Jesus came to be crucified.
  I also think that this is why he turned over the money changers tables. He wasn't angry, he was prodding the Pharisees.
  
  It was time for prophesy to be fulfilled
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't suppose it ever occured to you that it was the Jewish Holy Powers who ruled at the time who wanted Jesus killed because he threatened the Status Quo ? He was questioning their right to be the only religious voice in the land.
  
  They used the Roman's as executioners but they were the ones who were supplying the evidence.
  
  As I recall the Roman's were going to let him go so tell me who were these men again ?
  
  Did they not claim to be the voice of God as well ?
  
  Can both be right.... but of course they could both be wrong !
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SpanStarposted 14 years ago
Darwin THEORY- been there, done that....

Life is a continuing cycle if this selective breeding did work like Darwin claimed then someone, somewhere would have seen this process take place. I've never, ever heard any generation say anything about "Hey come over here this chimp just had another half human baby."

Today we have the ability to track down a 2 bit cook that left California and is now hiding on the streets of New York City But we can't Some 7-8 foot Hairy Big Foot In Some Wooded Area-I Wonder Why?
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "....... if this selective breeding did work like Darwin claimed then someone, somewhere would have seen this process take place."
  
  Darwin didn't claim it he observed it and commented upon it just as I have. Take a look at dogs, they all have one single common ancestor the Wolf. Due to the genetic manipulation of man how many useless but pretty breeds do we have now ?
  
  Farmers do it all the time, to breed birds and animals with less fat and or whatever the market requires. Man is merely manipulating natural selection. Same with genetic crops and, because of people like Darwin mankind can and does speed up and interfere with the natural process of life whether you accept it or not, it happens to be a fact.
  
  You want to see a half human half chimpanzee, go screw a Chimpanzee, that’s how it works, not by divine intervention but by cross species mating. Darwin didn’t invent evolution he observed it.
  
  Then you switch sides to claim that science can track someone from California to New York , not sure how unless the police are tracking him by the use of his cell phone or credit card activity, however I suspect you are trying to mock the science of DNA . That can’t track anybody, but used forensically it can provide evidence that the California cook is the same one that now resides in New York.
  
  Not sure about the sudden leap to mythical creatures like Big Foot or what relevance to your anti Darwinist argument this may have. I’m not sure Darwin’s notes covered Big Foot the Yeti or for that matter the Loch Ness monster !
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SpanStarposted 14 years ago
Since I don't believe I do enough compliments I want to take this time to say Onusonus I've read your posts and I like your style as well as how you convey your messages.

I don't know if we'll ever face each other but for now you are wearing the full armor of God-nice job.
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SpanStarposted 14 years ago
Quick clarification:

maybe they can't find big foot because there is No Big Foot-connection to Darwin is that people think it might be a hybrid.

tracking down people- we today have devices that turns night into day, we can read body heat and being in the woods not being that populated we should be able to pick body heat from a 7 foot creature while flying a helicopter.
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SpanStarposted 14 years ago
I missed a point since you brought it up.

dog breed brings about differences but these differences are still in the same species.

People breed interacially but they still have human babies.

What happens when you breed a dog with a monkey?
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No idea.... interesting notion though.
  
  Perhaps you would get a dog that could pick off its own fleas....
  
  As to looking for Big Foot, why would you want it found ? It's part legend, part myth and does wonders for tourisim....as I said like the Loch Ness Monster... people look but the Scottish tourist board don't want positive proof one way or the other.
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SirDentposted 14 years ago
What does age have to do with it? Lots of older people still have no real clue about anything.

You mean people are not dying as fast as before means it isn't working? Children are being fed and given medicine which we take for granted in the USA means it isn't working?

You quoted that Onusonus made insulting comments. That is attemtping to start a fight. Onus did no such thing.

So you are angry because they are happy? Their bellies are filled and they sing happy songs makes you angry, go ahead and admit it.

I give you this one. If I recall correctly a few posts back I listed 4 atheist charities. One of them was only started recently but I don't know how long the others have been around.

I did happen to notice the name of each charity showed that they had an agenda beyond feeding or helping others. I can find them again and show them to you.

I do question your original motive. The quote below was originally directed at Onus.
So tell me, are you saying we should let them starve or die if diseases instead of feeding them and giving the medicine?

You are right but you miss the most important point. You need God in order to just live. He is the giver of life and He can take it away.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I would agree, your god removes the lives of tens of thousands of children daily, very shortly after he just finished giving life to them. One wonders why he keeps giving life and then taking it away, only to have those who suffer his wrath also suffer in abject poverty and death from starvation.
  
  I'm also sure that SirDent will never argue against non-believers as to what god can and can't do, for if he does I'll be sure to refresh his memory with his own words.
  
  Thank you, SirDent.
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Merlin Fraserposted 14 years ago
You are right but you miss the most important point. You need God in order to just live. He is the giver of life and He can take it away.

Sir Dent,

You Win, you refreshed my memory to stay away from Forum subjects infitrated by the God Squad.

You and your pals remind me of the story of the Bishop walking through a beautiful garden, when he sae the head gardner on his knees stop to paise him.
"Bless you my son isn't it wonderful what wonders God and man can achieve when they work in harmony ?"

The gardner looked up with a smile, "Sure is Father, but you should have ssen the friggin' mess it was in when God had it to himself !"

Nuff said ?

I withdraw to the peace and quiet of a safe distance away from the preaching !
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Merlin,
  All I was trying to point out was the fact that God has created you, he gave to you the ability to move and do according to your own will, so you are indebted to him forever, and you act like he owes you something.
  The fact is that he gave us all life, he created the world, and has offered you eternal life and all that he requires is that you keep his commandments, even if you were to offer your whole soul and everything that you have to him still you would be an unprophetable servent. Do you think that a sparrow does not fall to the ground without his knowing what happened? And if this is true then he is aware of every unjust event that occurs or is inflicted by his children, and they will all have to give an account for their deeds and misdeeds in the world to come, and who are we to judge God who is perfectly just in all that he does. If we, being unjust, know what is good and what is bad, then all things corrupt will undoubtedly be corrected by the Lord God.
  
  Now that's preaching. See the difference?
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The giant invisible lizard purported to have sneezed the universe out of its nostrils is as indebted to by us as your god. So are all the other gods... all of them... especially the invisible ones...
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Fools mock but they will mourn, God's grace is sufficient for the meek. Humble yourself before God and he will make weak things strong.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the fog is thick, you won't be able to drive that car in that highway.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have you ever prayed to God with true faith? Or did you demand something that you didn't get?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the metaphor went over your head.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Enlighten me.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  some people will never understand G-d because they have no experience of G-d. They have not allowed it. So to drive the point to a negative is just to waste your energy.
  
  Do not hide behind G-d. If your battle is with another person's ego, speak of ego...not G-d. G-d is not part of all this. G-d is just the excuse.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is what annoys me about 'believers', you memorize words in books -use preacher tone of voice- yet have no bloody clue what it ACTUAL means. I Am, give me strength, that your blood is not spilled in vane!
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is what annoys me about 'non believers' you read the scriptuers without an ounce of faith and then proceed to interpert them as if you were the ultimate authority who knows more about God's words than God himself.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  First, you are foolish to think you are a believer. Second, what I have experienced far exceeds your quest for sensational apathy, my friend. The G/god you speak of, you know NOTHING about, save books and ritual appearances to satisfy YOUR need.
  
  You have no understanding of the measure of faith given you, yet you parade as an angel of light. Guess what, the parade is coming to an end. All those fancy balloons and hot air Helenistic helium are about to pop. You do not know the One who is, so do not pretend you do, for your sake. Else, please, call upon you G/god, maybe he is on the toilet -as my friend Elijah said - and cannot hear you.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know for being such an enlightened person you sure do speak with alot of vennom in your mouth.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  there are three types of people interacting in this forum. the believer...that's you, the nonbeliever, thats the other guy and then those that just sees the two extremes. There are three camps, the negative, the positive(that's you) and the space in between, containing the essence of both but are neither. I'm not talking about agnosticism. I'm talking about serious know-it-alls about the absolute. the absolutely nothing.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ehyeh asher ehyeh, is the Authority that gives me. Who are you to say otherwise?
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Realy? did he put his hands on your head and ordain you to the office or did you get the ordination on line by following five easy steps?
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh goody, it's the URC (Ultimate Religious Conflict).
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, spoken like a true churchianity catholic alter boy. good job. still waiting to hear from your Baal G/god. Let me know...
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You still havn't answered my question, but it is nice to see that you are continuing to mock other religions in the name of God.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  odd, you say religions in the plural.
  and what question, Baal worshiper?
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I asked; did he put his hands on your head and ordain you to the office or did you get the ordination on line by following five easy steps?
  
  My guess is the answer is no, the simple fact that you persist in calling me a Baal worshiper is evidence of your lack of spiritual integrity, you don't speak by the power of the Holy Spirit, instead you prefer to speak by the power of your own ego.
  How about instead of saying you believe in God, and then spewing out false, demonizing accusations at people who disagree with you or making jokes about alter boys, you actually act like you believe in him. Remember what Paul said to his beloved Timothy, "Be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.”
  
  And I would add that by kindness, and pure knowledge, which will greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile, and should the occasion arise when it is needed; reproving at times with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Spirit; however showing afterwards an increase of love toward those who you have reproved, Unless they esteem you as an enemy, that they will know that your faithfulness and love for them is stronger than the cords of death.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dear me. I puked a little when I read this, Onusonsomeoneelse.
  
  No matter what else - you certainly have condescending down pat. You might want to look up the words "hypocrisy" and "love" in a dictionary though. You seem to be mistaken as to the meaning of those.
  
  You are the perfect example of why I discard religion. Even though I know you are not a proper Christian - you may want to reflect on what sort of an example you set. I am convinced. Thanks for validating my beliefs.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  any time Markeymark,
  Incidently I was doing some geneological reaserch and found a Knowles family in my tree. Isn't that cool! Dude we could be cousins! Hey if I ever visit England, can I stay at your place? Come on kinfolk waddya say..... Oooh if I could reach through this computer I'd give you a big noogie.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course you can, Onusonsomeoneelse. You have to leave the condescending nonsense at the door though. Think you can manage that?
  
  And yes - we are related - of course. Cousins many times removed I would think. I am researching Mormon genealogies myself for a book - I have a list going back to antiquity. Those Sephardic Jews sure got around.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jewish antiquity?! Holy crap thats far back. Don't only royal lines stretch that far?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what you call faith is not actually what it means. faith as big as a mustard seed. the power of certainty of the essence. it is about the universal truths contained in an essence. it is not about belief. it is about knowledge.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Most atheists here certainly know scriptures much better than the believers. Of course, we wonder how believers are so convinced their own personal interpretations of their gods are the authorities? LOL.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You may actually be right about that. Watch your roof and make sure it isn't cracking since I wrote that.
  
  The biggest problem is this. You know what the Bible says, but believers know "who" the Bible is. We know the One that authored it.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Roof good, cracking no, god invisible, undetectable.
  
  So do we.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nonsense. If that were true - there would never have been any religious wars and you would all agree. Not seeing that - Ergo you are just deluding yourself to give yourself a sense of personal power that is lacking.
  
  This is called "low self esteem" Dent. You "know" nothing and it is actually quite laughable that you purposefully create this division and still cannot understand why this causes conflict.
  
  No morals. None.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Which god were you threatening me with again?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the audacity of man to think that by pruning a garden, he makes it better.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  At first glance that is a simple statement.
  
  .......................
  
  but after looking at it for a moment .... It says a lot
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sometimes truth is better communicated in metaphors.
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Onusonusposted 14 years ago
Should those who contend with God instruct him, and disanull his judgment that they may be more rightous than their creator?
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ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago
If you want to speak of G-d, speak in that language. That language is compassionate.

But if you want to entertain yourself with a battle of wits...leave G-d out of it. Acknowledge your motivation. That's just so you don't make a mockery of what you stand for.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A truely wise thing, perhaps we could all strive to be aa little more like a perfect man or woman in this area.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And you say you don't Preach !!!!
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Merlin Fraserposted 14 years ago
Please don’t think that I never went in search of God, probably in a more open minded way than most.

Did I find him, I think that may depend upon your definition of find.

Have any of you who challenge my enlightenment ever heard about Zarathushtra ?

How about Hezekiah ?

Check them out, I may not have found God, but I did find those who invented him.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't expect you back. How about addressing the points I raised in my last post here to you?
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/44667?p … ost1044392
  
  I already know the last line I wrote there offended you so you can leave it alone.
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  Merlin Fraserposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If your righteousness does not surpass that of the pharisees, you will not see the kingdom of heaven."
  
  Sir Dent,
  
  Is that the line you refer to ? Not offended by it at all, didn't think it was aimed at me specifically being as I am a Scotsman not a Pharisee !
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not that post/ That post was directed to someone else. I put the link to my previous post. Click it to find the right one.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
Who is 'he' and what steps are you talking about? This ordained concept is funny. So by your perspective only an 'ordained human' has understanding of the nature of Creator or anointing, yes? You know ordained originated from Roman/Greek pagan cults? Hence why I mentioned Catholic school boy...

LOL. Yes, there's a good Baal priest. The True Spirit in me is not a soft ice cream cone, friend. If you understood, you would not argue against it. Those things S/Paul speaks of are in might and power -beyond human evoking- of wishy washy voodoo woodoo.

Again with God? God is Baal. Now, speak the Word of Truth and I'll put the Sword of Truth down and embrace you. Until then, I will not relinquish my armor.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's an interesting take on things, however it is a true principle that those who speak in the name of God have from the begining, been ordained by God. Were the priests of Aaron, Baal worshipers? Not in the least, but they were ordained by God through their fathers. not by wealth or education or even understanding of worldly things, no matter what they did they were not, nor could they be, authorized servents of the Lord unless they had permission from God himself to ordain, to bless, to serve, and especially to speak on the Lord's behalf.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Didn't the children of Aaron, the Kohathites, Nadav and Avihu, take a pan, place fire within and put incense upon the fire. They brought before Him, a "strange fire" which they had not been commanded to bring. A fire came out from in front of Him and consumed them; they died...
  Indeed, so then, where is your testimony? After which those priests were killed, the alter consumed by the Consuming fire. Even after when the sons of Levi sinned, He was merciful and did not destroy them fully.
  
  The Spirit gives according to His desire, not the human translation, perspective or idea of that desire. This is where you false short. Those who bless, do so to those who have a pure heart. Don't the blessings come on the rich or poor equally? Yes. So then, where is your testimony?
  
  You say on His behalf, yet deny the fullness of that anointing in yourself, why?
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If one were to read the scriptures without faith, then the Bible would be to them nothing more than a good story, but when you read prayerfully and exercising faith, the Lord opens up a divine knowledge to the mind of the individual, if the people of Paul’s day and even the priests in the days of Aaron had believed in the keys to the kingdom of heaven which they held, then the Priesthood would never have been taken away, none the less the world immediately fell into an apostate condition, even a Jewish person can tell you that without the priesthood there could be no temple to worship in. Why then did Isaiah and several others declare that there would come a time in the last days that there should be a temple built up unto the Lord? Were they lying? Do you think that those prophecies will not come to pass?
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Onusonusposted 14 years ago
And how could there be a temple without the priesthood? There has been a chain of authority passed down from the days of Adam to our present day, it is an everlasting principle and existed with God from the eternities, the keys of the priesthood have been brought from heaven whenever the Gospel has been sent to mankind, and whenever it has been administered, it has always been accompanied by the priesthood.
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Onusonusposted 14 years ago
Now you ask, where is my testimony. Here it is; I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that by him and through him are all of mankind saved and there is no other way to gain eternal salvation, except by faith and obediance to him. He is the high priest after the order of melchizedek, it is his priesthood and without it nothing can be accomplished towards the building up of Gods kingdom on Earth, and there is no other power on the face of the earth like it, it is the only power that reaches beyond the veil of death, it is the power to bind on Earth the things that are bound in Heaven. I believe that if one is a true believer in Christ, then he must seek to obtain this Holy calling, unless they deny the power of God "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof."
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And yet knowing these things, you still deny Him...
  
  There is no prophecy to come -the Prophecy did come & all was fulfilled, both law & prophecy. For the Testimony of Y`shua IS the Spirit of Prophecy.
  
  Have a good day.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Believing in Jesus is denying him? Wierd........
  I believe all that God has revieled and all that he will reveal, and that he will reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God the almighty, and there is nothing in the scriptures to say that he does not continue to reveal things pertaining to his kingdom to his children.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And again, there is a huge difference between your statement of prophecies earlier and revelation here. They are not the same.
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  Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well then let me add prophets and prophecy to the list.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Knocks on the screen.
  Hmm, 'believing' in him is completely different from walking with him. You don't deny He is, but neither do angels or demons -and they tremble. So, pretending to walk or follow is really the issue.
  Using your perspective of "how to" v. His perspective of "how should" you. Again, believers most of all have issues with this, because they want to be in control -while proclaiming they don't.
  It is called the mental paradox.
  Perhaps it is time for a mental "paragdym shift".
  
  Cheers.
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Jorlinaposted 14 years ago
hi,

Thanks for sharing your comments.
Drug Rehab
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strutzasposted 14 years ago
Not only religion must be organized, we must organized ourselves too in order to have a good relation with others and to our GOD.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Why have religion at all?
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Mishaposted 14 years ago
Valerie, did you get a rebirth? Welcome back to our land of sins
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
(Q) wrote:
How about the Christians chasing the starving children away to get all the food from Jesus? Get real, Jerami.

Valerie F wrote
Wha??? Where did you see this happen?

Jerami says ... what?? Where did you see this happen?
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