God hates religion, or anything else that keeps people from Him.
He sent Jesus to make the way free and open to all who will come in.
Wy fight it and reject it?
Then why would God have Christ establish a religion?
Christ established a way for relationship with God--He made a Way and modeled "the way" to live life. He was against the "religious" of His day. Jesus gave the Great Commission and said, "As you are going..." and told his disciples what to do--they were to spread the Gospel (which is not just a message but a lifestyle and is both proclamation and demonstration--a message with power and love). The Church means "called out ones." Jesus never told anybody to establish a religion--man did that himself. :-)
I like your definition of the Gospel.
But there was ordination in the early church, and elders and deacons were chosen. As well, Jesus gave the example of appointing the apostles who were evangelists. Paul also wrote that there should be order in the church meetings, and he wrote Titus to "ordain elders in every city."
James 1:27 - "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
So there is at least one kind of "religion" that God does not hate.
True--agreed! I am just used to people defining religion as the man-made institutions that exist today that are in many ways, contrary to the teaching of Christ. Yes, Jesus did establish His Church--His people--but many people think Church (the people) as in church (the building) as in religion as in man-made rules. But what you pointed out about what God says--that is true "religion." :-)
Christ is God, man starts religion, by applying lies to truth, then blind followers believe man not God........Even thinking God is religion is evidence of the lie in action....
I should clarify, that the first sentence is what I was referring to, that God hates, IE ". . . anything else that keeps people from Him."
So, if you define religion as a seeking after the knowledge of God, I see that as OK.
But, as often is the case, religion diverts people from seeking God, and set them up to follow meaningles rules, doctrines and rituals. None of which actually brings one TO God.
The real clarification is the fact that you said God hates. If He created everything, how can He possible hate what He created?
Ridiculous. He sounds incredibly petty and vain.
Yes, I know, people who create fantasy worlds to escape reality often do believe reality sounds ridiculous. That's probably why they escape it.
The Bible has nothing bad to say about the Christian religion. Rather, it has good things to say about it: "Pure religion, undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." - James 1:27.
If one is religious, he is doing these things; and God does not hate that. Moreover, the dictionary defines religion as beliefs, practices and moral codes. If we are without religion (biblical beliefs, practices and morality), what makes us any different than the heathen?
To say that religion is bad is utter nonsense.
As a heathen I take offense to that! Most of my friends are heathens are they are some of the most generous people you could ever hope to meet. Why would say heathen like its a bad thing? Seems you can't talk about people you don't know anything about.
If the cap fits....
n. pl. hea·thens or heathen
a. One who adheres to the religion of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam.
b. Such persons considered as a group; the unconverted.
2. Heathen An adherent of a Neopagan religion that seeks to revive the religious beliefs and practices of the ancient Germanic peoples.
a. One who is regarded as irreligious, uncivilized, or unenlightened.
b. Such persons considered as a group.
[Middle English hethen, from Old English hthen; see kaito- in Indo-European roots.]
It's a word that describes a person who fits the description.
If you fit it, what's the argument, if you do not, what's the argument?
Don't be stupid. Your heathen comment was inappropriate and highly prejudiced. Everyone knows that christians consider 'heathens' as spiritually bankrupt, especially the way you used it above.
Where is the love you christians constantly shove down our throats?
First, it was not my comment, secondly, I accept that the dictionary definition of a word is sufficient to define it's meaning.
Thirdly, using the old 'where is the love' rube is pointless, believers should love everyone, but that also means that on occasion folk get 'insulted' when the truth is spoken, which is just too bad, if believers do not tell them, how can they know?
Religious forums are not exactly the best place for secularists to expound their opinions and not expect to be answered!
Well I don't adhere to any religion, but I don't acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity or Islam so really, close enough. The hat size might be a smidg off but its good enough to buy. I honestly don't eat babies or anything
100% sure you do not eat babies, and are undoubtedly a fine and decent person, in fact from the forums, I know that to be true, I just try to stop words being redefined and misunderstood, call me a pedant, you would be correct and I would not be offended!
Relevant Truths are hard to argue. Some will and some won't applies to every thought and imagination cast down. Out of context is or isn't a good thing.
haha You define your 'god of love' then say he 'hates' something.
Where I come from that is called talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Hate and love are two sides of the same coin, in order to be capable of love, one must understand that a just God must hate things which separate Him from His creation.
God hates the sin, not the sinner.
Where I come from indifference is the really bad choice, so I am glad that you displayed your hatred of God, for that means that equally you may come to find your love for Him.
If you were indifferent, you truly would be lost.
You are putting words in my mouth. I never 'displayed my hatred of god', even though the twisted logic of people like you sure push me in that direction.
Your god is the god of love. You say he hates something. You are putting words in gods mouth too.
Hi Aqua. How is your Sunday going so far?
While I have unlimited respect for your beliefs and absolutely no desire to change any of them, I have to tell you where I come from your words read like incomprehensible double talk: “in order to be capable of love, one must understand that a just God must hate things.”
I can accept that hate and love are the opposite extremes of the same emotion. However, to claim that God, or any human, can not feel love without hating something defies all of my life experiences. It represents convoluted logic that has been twisted in a feeble attempt to support another unrelated premise. If you are looking for reasons to justify examples of God’s hatred, you will need to look beyond His love for your excuses.
In addition, indifference is not always a bad choice. Indifference is to choose not to choose, such as being indifferent about my opinion of your post or being indifferent about who will win the Super Bowl.
Maybe I did not express myself clearly, however you quoted me out of context, when you left of the last section of the verse:
"in order to be capable of love, one must understand that a just God must hate things which separate Him from His creation."
That "separate Him from His creation" bit makes a mite of a difference.
You may have missed it, or your brain may have deleted that as not essential to the sentence or your thinking, but it is relevant.
I don't hate anyone, not a soul, but I do hate the things that people do to separate man from God.
You still didn't clarify the statement that I 'displayed my hatred of god'. When you say things like that about people you must show an example of that hatred, or otherwise you are making things up to satisfy your weak argument.
Lew, your name gives it away, and your posts indicate that you are a secularist, correct me if I am wrong?
By definition a secularist:
1. of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.
2. not pertaining to or connected with religion ( opposed to sacred): secular music.
3. (of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.
If you love God, just say so.
If you are indifferent to God, that's the biggest insult I know, indifference.
If you hate God, it's almost better, for hate turns to love relatively easily once one engages and knows the entity one hated, been there, done that, got the T shirt.
So what are you....
Do you love God, indeed, what does God mean to you?
John, I like your dictionary... and your logic.
My beliefs are not the subject of this forum, yet you seek to define me as either believing in god or not believing in anything spiritual. That is the problem with your concept of the world. People can have nice spiritual lives without getting on their knees and begging not to be burned for eternity.
And my answer to you is no, I don't hate god, I hate what you think god is.
Never done the begging bit myself, just accepted the Grace offered to me by Christ's sacrifice for my sins.
Glad you don't hate God, can't comment on what you think I think God is, but would guess you can see that I associate Christ as being God, so make of it what you will, that's the good thing about religious forums, you can think whatever you want.
I would wager that should we meet over a beer, we would enjoy our company, apologies if I have judged the book by it's cover, I'll take a look at your hubs and try to get a better understanding of where you are coming from.
May God richly bless you with the knowledge of all truth.
Hello again, Aqua.
On the contrary, you did indeed express yourself clearly in both of your posts. You believe you are incapable of loving God without also hating the things that people do to separate man from God. I believe humanity is capable of loving God without hating anything! My brain is making an essential and relevant distinction between our beliefs.
"You believe you are incapable of loving God without also hating the things that people do to separate man from God."
There you make an assumption again, and quote out of context, what I stated was:
I don't hate anyone, not a soul, but I do hate the things that people do to separate man from God.
There is no obligation on me to hate, nor does hate stand as a requirement for me to love God, far from it.
My hatred of the things that cause separation from God, is a personal hate, not the sort of hatred that burns one up, nor obsession, just a recognition that anything which separated man from God is unworthy of love, impossible to be indifferent to, and hateful in itself, which therefore makes it hate-able.
Then, you have a lot of hatred because there are so many people not doing the things you expect and want them to do.
No, I am content that God has it all under control, and all those folk doing things that separate them from God are still just part of the agenda, we know that we live in the times of apostasy and iniquity, these things are needed to separate the sheep from the goats.
In these times people either find apostasy and iniquity attractive or revolting.
People are not the problem, it's what they do that causes me to hate the sin they perpetrate.
We all make choices, we can chose to conjoin with God and go with the plan for our salvation, or we can chose to do those things that separate us from God, and we can do that unconsciously or with determination.
Those are the choices, we all make then by default or design.
PS. Your one liners are getting more cohesive, but maybe I am just getting used to you and finding you less aggravating!
No, we don't.
Hence, you have a lot of hatred, like I said. Why are trying to defend something that you already admit?
Gobbledegook. Your irrational beliefs cause you to be filled with hatred. That's the bottom line.
OK, back to the same old Mark 1 version of forum debate, but frankly, I am not playing, you can believe as you wish, you are still subject to the spiritual laws that God decreed, and I wish you well.
No, I am not subject to your irrational beliefs.
Mark, you may not be subject to any of my beliefs, but you will be subject to Gods.
No, I'm not subject to your irrational beliefs, which ARE your beliefs in God.
I guess only time will tell who is right on this point.
You've had 2000 years and your religion still hasn't shown it's right.
I warrant that both of us will find out the truth earlier than that!
When you stand before God, you will know the truth.
Great! I suppose since you reject religion, that you have found God. GOOD! Now could you show us your evidence, please?
So, God hates people believing in Him? That's a new one.
All religion is: is a way to define the faith of man by his works and Faith with out works is dead. Religion was design by the dark prince to kill Faith and he has just about done it. Almost everywhere and in every religion.
James 1:27 was a very good verse to use for the calling on every man as a brother is by all means what the Good Book teaches over and over. The truest of proofs to ones Faith is but to Do! As the Christ has done. Christ also said Come and Follow me and I will make you Fishers of Men he ordain None! They all came of their Own free will IF they were not of the Elected, and if they were: Their Choice was made before their birth into the flesh and this world, and were called to remember of that pre-chosen choice from before, when they were set a side for the age to come by the Father Himself. This age to come It is, and which is upon us as we speak.
God does not hate religion! ... It serves a worthwile purpose.
A chunk of coal will always just be a chunk of coal until it goes through a lot of pressure .... I'm just a diamond in the rough.
a piece of iron ore gotta go through the fire in order to come out a fine sword.
the fire is not a dreaded thing unless we want to remain a chunk of iron ore forever.
re·li·gion [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
So I think the actual word religion is not something God dislikes, it's what mankind do with the beliefs they accede to.
The key is probably in the last definition: "ritual observance of faith"
It seems to be how we interpret our 'faith' that defines how God views it.
Christ stood against the ritual of Judaism, against the thing that it had been made, a set of rules designed to ensure that anyone who could ever keep all those laws would not be an offence to God, but in doing so, in the attempt to keep those man made interpretation of Gods commands, the religious leaders actually made those who tried and failed to obey the 'law' and offence in themselves.
Likewise Christians have made their own 'laws' which they call doctrines, and will stand firm on those beliefs, to the point of excommunication those who do not keep to their doctrines.
I call that Churchianity, and believe that God does dislike that as much as He would dislike humanities rejection of Him.
The tenets that Christ outlined for humanity are just as valid when applied by other religions, and living in a religious hotspot as I do, I frequently find people who obey Christ's commands, yet are not Christians in the accepted sense of the word, as defined by Churchianity.
The bible sets out that by their refusal of John 3 16:19 those people are condemned to separation from God.
I cannot fault that, scripturally, but do find it difficult to assume that at some point in life's plan, those who obey Christ, are not actually more compliant to 3:16 than those who merely pay lip service to the concepts of Christ.
So I think it error to state that God has anything against religion, but proven that God dislikes 'ritual' which masquerades as faith and obedience to Him.
Good point, John.
And it takes humility to understand anything.
So many who thump the Bible think they know it all. I, for one, have studied for over 50 years and still don't know it all. In fact, I've barely scratched the surface.
And so many who don't believe think they know what the Bible is about, but they're just as clueless.
But that can easily change merely by becoming humble and hungry for knowledge.
I think he understood man enough to know that he would corrupt anything he said with their agendas on Earth and stand in his own way to Heaven.
God does not hate religion. On the other hand, humans hate religions and this explains why there is 9/11.
@phillippeengel, I think that may be what the real perpetrators what you to believe.
It seems that 9/11 was about greed, not religion.
Months before 9/11, Nick Rockefeller told Aaron Russo that a big event coming up would get us into Iraq and Afghanistan. It would allow us to take over the oil fields (Iraq) and the place for the pipeline (Afghanistan). Then 9/11 happened and we moved in. Forget that there weren't any WMD's. Bush wasn't going to be confused by that little detail. There were $billions to be made and truth wasn't going to stop them.
And Osama bin Laden? He denied he had anything to do with 9/11. When "he" finally recanted years later, was it really Osama bin Laden, or a look-alike to make us think he had changed his mind to take credit for the biggest act of terrorism in history. Why would someone not take credit for their biggest act? Maybe they really had nothing to do with it.
I'm sure the Rockefellers and Rothschilds would love for you to continue thinking as you do. But don't take any body-wear microchips. Then you'll really be a goner.
I guess I could somewhat appreciate the sentiment, if it hadn't come from a professed Christian. You guys never cease to amaze me. You are immersed in religion and actively attempt to bash it. Do you honestly think simply by saying you aren't religious (while obviously not understanding the definition of the word) makes it so? Maybe in your mind, but I'm afraid that doesn't follow through in the real world.
Perhaps, @Emile, it would be more instructive to ask what their definition is for the word.
Obviously they're objecting to something about the subject. By defining it, they could help us understand what that objection is.
@aka-dj, I happen to disagree with you. But why don't you define what you mean. What is it about "religion" that you think God hates?
I would think that God loves it when we get together to come closer to Him and to study His word and to awaken spiritually. That can be religion done right.
We've all seen enough religion done wrong. But don't be confused by what other people have done incorrectly.
But thanks for stirring up such a hot topic.
Religion is not the same as faith. Religion is the determination of men imposing a regimented doctrine on its people to force compliance of its teachings. It maintains leadership and rules and does not allow for argument at most times. All churches have to have some religion but Jesus teaches the lessons of Religion quite well in his day. The mistake is that the Earthly position imposed by man has replaced the Heavenly purpose and has removed free will and the individual purpose in defining a personal relationship with God in true spiritual growth. People are complying not with God but with man and meeting requirements for life on Earth and not in Heaven. This destroys Gods plan for the individual and growth towards salvation. People have to follow God by learning the rewards that it brings not because it meets Earthly requirements. When Religion dictates your credentials you meet the purpose of others and claim your titles on the judgements of others and not yourself. In the end we all judge ourselves and determine who we really are. Its not intellect, attendance, back ground checks, wealth but our personal relationship with God and not compliance within a Church in meeting the demands of men for Earthly reasons and agendas. We should be growing every day and less concerned about Earthly problems and more concerned with our place in the body and Gods purpose for us and others. We all have a journey and a purpose in maturing to become something in Heaven we are spiritually only children and life is to short to ever become much more then this.
It's the same as people not understanding the difference between "God loves the sinner, but hates the sin".
I haven't found ONE single Atheist who comprehends that statement.
Got it in one AKA, there is a comprehension gap that seems to be insurmountable.
So far, I have also noticed something Atheist's have in common with God.
It is quite apparent they both hate religion (as per my clarification earlier), the one big difference between them is that
God loves the Atheist, but the
Atheist hates God, along with the religion they (falsely) associate Him with.
Atheists don't hate god. You have to believe in something to hate it.
Well, that may sound good to you, but Jesus said men hated Him in his day, they will hate us in our day.
But, it also says that whoever receives you receives Me. Conversely, if they hate you, they hate Me.
It amounts to the same thing.
You may not believe in Him, but hatred FOR Him is still there, because He lives.
I dont think god hates religion, I think he has a sick sense of humour
I think it's really sad when people reflect their own prejudices, insecurities and shortcomings onto a presumed deity. Those who stand against the wrongs perpetuated onto society by the religious do not stand in defiance of a god.
As long as the religious can't take personal responsibility they will never understand this.
Quoting Seek-n-Find; (Christ established a way for relationship with God--He made a Way and modeled "the way" to live life. He was against the "religious" of His day. Jesus gave the Great Commission and said, "As you are going..." and told his disciples what to do--they were to spread the Gospel (which is not just a message but a lifestyle and is both proclamation and demonstration--a message with power and love). The Church means "called out ones." Jesus never told anybody to establish a religion--man did that himself. :-))
Christ also taught the New Covenant Law, Love God with all your Body, Mind and Spirit and love each other, for your Father in Heaven first loved you. And if you study the Truth, the (Best Wisdom and Philosophy) to ever be known, then the answers to all questions relevant to love and hate shall be provided in ways all whom are yearning for enlightenment shall find. Even Socrates and Aristotle were curious thinkers in wonder of answers concerning the God of Moses,Abraham,and all the other lineage of the Jewish Sect. Interesting topic. Enjoy reading this type of dialogue. Have an excellent day all !!!!
by Tabari2iesopen 12 years ago
Why would you think they are not?
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