But you can ask as many foolish questions as you like.
Yes. But Eve, then Adam, sinned, and messed up our opportunity to live in a perfect world. However, I'm sure none of us would've done any better! So it goes.
I will add that sin entered the world via Satan initially, who was and is the epitiome of sin. And he keeps offering the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil to us daily. Many, like Eve and Adam, reach out and take it too.
The bad part is that we have to go through the process of sin.
The good part is that we have a Way of repentance which gives us access to the tree of Life eventually.
Brenda, your words...
The bad part is that we have to go through the process of sin.
The good part is that we have a Way of repentance which gives us access to the tree of Life eventually.
ok... So now Adam and Eve committed the sin, they were told to not eat of the tree right? and they did anyway, right? so now we all repent, and thus get to eat of the tree that an all knowing, "never changing" God said "no", we can not eat of it?????? Forget the Snake, he was added in the 1500AD Cannons much later!!!!!
but yet somewhere in here (the mix of all of this) is the actual death of Jesus which supposedly forgave Man? Happened…right?
But now by your words above, we can ignore that because we "have" to commit sin, and then we have to repent???? Your words above, right?
Soooo...Sin means we have to do it?..We can not think for ourselves, and decide not to????? we just “have” to...right?
and after our sin we can “have” to have repentance…your words!
Sooo... "now"- (In repentance) we get to eat what is forbidden in the first place and (still is forbidden), that is if God is, (in truth) as we describe him; is indeed an all knowing and never changing God!…, Right!
I have heard many times over, He is the same today as tomorrow as he was yesterday...right?
So...Then if all we “have to do” our purpose is to sin then repent? What did Jesus die for....?
What and Why did Isaiah prophesize for?
Why would God grant you divine knowledge that is his alone and forbidden to humans with sin? Just because you repent???? Your still Human after the repentance?
and how does that get mixed up with Human forgiveness, so a human can supposedly approach God?
Your Old Testament and New Testament are crashing miserably together here Girl....?
Study first, then Preach if you must, please
Maybe I should've said we DO all go through the process of sin, not that we "have to" as in a mandate or something!?
I'm not sure exactly what you meant.
But anyway, it's just a fact that we all DO sin.
No, that wasn't our original purpose, and still is not God's purpose for us (to sin). We were created for His pleasure, and it would please Him if we didn't sin. But since no one (except Christ) was found worthy, we are hopelessly lost without Jesus's sacrifice.
A couple of your questions are confusing....
Satan deceived Eve. She ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil before she had a chance (or decided) to eat of the tree of Life.....
Why Adam and Eve didn't eat of the tree of Life first, I dunno!
...Only by accepting Christ through repentance and receiving His forgiveness are we counted worthy to approach God.
Yes, He is the same yesterday, today, and forever! Because Christ WAS the manifestation of God through which we are able to be saved.
Since Eve and Adam's sin, we are all subject to sin and punishment (punishment, again, were it not for the grace of our Lord).
...I think the stumbling block here is the Tree of Life. People readily recall the other tree, but once again leave out the Tree of Life, just as Adam and Eve did!
There was a literal tree of life in the Garden, I believe.
Jesus is now the Tree of Life. That's how I understand it.
There is no "crashing together" of the Old Testament and the New.
There is only confirmation and agreement among the two.
Tree, as I understood this was God like knowledge, and they were not supposed to gain that as there existence was for fellowship with God, not to be omniscient or equal to God. Meaning a separation between God and Human thought. God to the Higher plane of knowledge, human to the lower one.
Thus like you I ask also, Why did he put the tree there then?
Sin as I understood it, was defined as the ability to make God like decisions for yourself without the presence of God. The idea you should ask him or wait for him to tell you. He knows we do not ask, and have the propensity to go it alone. Thus we separate from him (The Original definition of sin I think , and I may be wrong ) was that I thought.
I was looking at God as a spiritual being, not just knowledge. But I see your point here as well.
I thought of it as The tree symbolizing our knowledge of who God is exactly, and we do not have that true vision or knowledge, but...we have faith of the vision. thus faith gets us there. From the heart as they say, not the head...
I think Adam destroyed that bond for us when he willingly followed Eve. That’s why I jokingly say Eve was framed. Meaning she came from a Humans Rib, lead by the Hand of God to formation, so her Human side was strong and thus by her very creation had the propensity to think alone.
Adam I think was the worst of the two of them, he was actually created by Gods hands and was spoken into existence according to the story, so to me; thus he had the knowledge not to follow, knowledge to hear Gods voice (so to speak) His God side would be stronger or should have been, but he did it anyway.
The story problem biased by a male view...lol
I do not think it was literally a tree. but a Hebrew way to parable or story telling as in teaching a lesson about it.
I think that’s why Isaiah spoke to Israel they way he did, to show them what he was allowed to see, as truth coming. he was granted the Knowledge.
But I honestly do not think all of us will be even in re-pentance.. Thus the death was necessary.
Now if you are saying repentance as in re-canting and going to seek Jesus, yes, I do so agree. I can see your points. From the words I have read so far. That would be the meaning of entering through Jesus.
We had a big discussion in church the other day, The pastor said for all to buy prayer cloths to cover us with. Cover the Sin?????
My argument, besides the fact his Niece made them! was that if we are with sin, the cloth does not hide us, because God sees us through the blood of Christ, so the cloth is un-necessary if we truly are repentant and seeking God. We are not to hide but come in full view.
He got a bit peeved at me!!!!!!!!!!!!
any way hope that clarify's it as to my view, but I see your meaning here as well.
Well, I'd have probably got that Pastor peeved at me too! haha
Your point reminds me of something...
Adam should have been Eve's "covering". Not that Eve didn't have free will too, but Adam, as you said, was created by God first, etc.
Timothy says that Eve, being deceived, was "in the transgression"....seeming to say that she was the one who sinned. Yet the Bible says that by one man's sin, sin entered the world.
I've always had a question about that verse in Timothy....trying to resolve whether Timothy meant it's more sinful to be deceived, or to follow along with one who is deceived.....
or actually, if both are equally bad.
have also been trying to find out when the actual mention of the snake was written. I was thinking it was not in the original Torah, the first five books, but have been told by interpreters that it was.
not sure though.
both were bad but I can not help but think that if it was Eve only, then Adam would have had a different role, possibly interceding on her behalf or maybe not...lol
but...the story stands as told.
As for being deceived, he could have been, but I honestly think he should have not had the knowledge to be deceived, meaning God said it, so that’s it, no other consideration, that’s why I think he may have been worse. to me its Like Eve was used to seal the story of mans destiny as it was set in place.
it is all speculation here, but I wonder. The bad part of all of this is the cart-blanche a lot of cultures have taken and still do with it as women being the deceivers, or the lower of the two species of humans. its crap actually but it happens.
Arab culture does it today, women cover up so men can not be tempted, but it takes two! They can not look at another man in some places, stuff like that! Like they have sorcerer powers or something!
Some African and Mid Eastern Traditions also come from it.. Very oppressive to watch when you see it.
Satan tricked Eve, (since she was a woman), and she made Adam go along, (since she was the only woman, he didnt want to be alone)
..yes but then Eve got hungry or sumthin' like that....
George Walker Bush was born in New Haven, Connecticut, on July 6, 1946, the first child of George H. W. Bush and Barbara Bush (née Pierce)
Greek One, you are sooooo bad.
Very convenient too!
Just 'cause you can't find out Obama's real birth date!
It all began the very moment that the first human being was born. When evolution broke away from the tree dwellers and became liberals.
Sin was invented by christians as a pocket guide for their behaviour.
Haj wrote: "How did sin enter the world?"
through some very mentally confused and fragmented persons???
Sin entered the world via the Ego. That is to say the balance between Ego and Spirit was thrown out of balance by Ego and thus sin became existent and over the generations very prominent. Now we are stuck in the Egolicious world we live in today, and we struggle to sustain Spirit.
According to the christian church - when zero appeared as a counting number and so made higher mathematics possible - evil and sin could come into the world through the hole of the 0 - I kid you not !! this argument raged at the highest levels for over 100 years.
You doubt me ?? and you just the character to sit on THAT council of fools. Go look it up, I don't post lies here.
Actually, no, I don't think this foll.....er...I think you meant fool?......would have ever sat on that council.
But hey, I did find one article that referred to St. Augustine as referring to mathematics as being used for evil....
Perhaps you could point this enquiring mind to a more in-depth link?
When you said Christian Church", I assumed you meant the actual original followers of Christ, not St. Augustine or someone like that.
This is a well known and easily found piece of 600 year old news, I am sure you can find it yourself as it is just 'true' and not deceipt and lies.
Hey, if it hasn't been in the local news in the last 30 years, I probably missed it.
Anyway, thanks very much for the info.
An act that is regarded by theologians as a transgression of God's will.
What IS God's will, earnest? According to you anyway.
No god Brenda. See the cartoon on the other hub for reference.
Hey Brenda, it would be nice if you defined - "what is god?" before you try and determine what it's/his/her will actually might be.
As said many times before in these forums- "god" is a metaphor, which many Christians and other religious folk fail to realize. They continue to externalize "god" as something else of substance or real.
Jesus' teachings is metaphorical parables. The "god" reference is a metaphor for self master, you are in FULL control of your thoughts and actions. It might be nice if you started acting like it.
If you mean I have free will, yes I do. Christians aren't puppets. What we are is a group of willing vessels of His, willing to do His will to the best of our abilities.
That does not negate the possibility of God being real. So I don't understand your point there.
The point Brenda is one of common sense. Duh!
The work of Jesus, who you claim to follow is METAPHORICAL PARABLES...if you don't know what that means, then look it up.
When Jesus used the word "god" it was a metaphor for you to learn as self master. Master of one's own life.
Good morning Jerami - you got out of bed on the wrong side today
Religionists are easy to scatter. That is there natural condition. scattered.
Hay earnest.. Hows it goin...
I gotta abmitt.... I'm a little double minded when it comes to scattering chickens.
Sometimes with chickens; when 3 or 4 sit gather, don't hurt nothing to skatter um ...
Caus ain't nuttin being said worth saying anyway.
But you are wrong there is a higher power that they are calling God. And NO You and Me ain't him. It aint in us.
Moma Said supper is getting cold ..
back in a little bit....
That's what happens when a delusional person cannot distinguish be their own sense of life and external authorities.
that made sense ... sure did ????
realy ? ..... maybe ;
are you sure ? NO!!!
Am I sure that you cannot tell the difference between your own sense of life and what you consider a god(external authorities)?
Yep! I'm positive you don't know the difference. Your words make you guilty.
I don't remember standing accused.
I must have missed class that day.
You don't need to be accused when it's blatant obvious through your own use of words and action.
*hand to face*
hand to face ? No thanks I've already eaten. read my post rom 15 ninutes ago ???
It wasn't meant for my hand to your face. DUH! It's my hand to my face, because of you and your method of thinking. DUH!
There ya go ... thinking that you know what I'm thinking
Really? Again, you own words deceive you. Again, you're not even worthy of a rational conversation. WOW!
Are you telling me that ... or are you reading my mind again ????????
Yet, another irrelevant response. Man, you're not even funny.
I gotta be funny ..... I'm following your example.
And everybody thinks you are funny.
It is getting a bit ridiculous how non-believing continue to hijack the OP. If you have nothing valuable or pertaining to the OP to add, don't reply, simple. Enough is enough. Personal attacks are still personal attacks against another person replying to a thread about religion, no matter how "nice" you try to present it...
Sin entered the world when a young little lady from way down south tempted innocent young boys like myself to 'get physical'
According to the Quaran, Pandora (peace be upon her) opened a box and out jumped a flying Kangaroo that granted her three wishes. She wished for a sandwich, a Coke, and then a vague request for things to stop being so boring.
Sin came into the world as a description for activities or feelings that threatened the well-being of the upper class. How do you institute order? Tell people they will be cruicified or stoned to death if they do not participate in your fear-fueled, oppressive religion. And if they don't take you serious, tell them they will live forever in a burning hole in the ground, that should do it.
Life is sacred? Who said so, God? Hey, if you read history you'll realize that God is one of the leading causes of death...has been for thousands of years. Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jews, all taking turns killing each other because God told them it was a good idea.
1937 - 2008
I have been attempting to imagine physical life on a physical planet of any limited size without HAVING to experience death.
The costs of eternal life under those conditions would be more than it would be worth.
If people lived forever in this physical world; People would complain about that just as much.
People are basically complainers; Irregardless
God gives life and he/it takes it back.
No one can develop a better system than the one we have.
Deal with it.
Your god didn't give me life Jerami. It is your myth remember, not mine.
OK Take God out of your story.
You couldn't design a better system than the one we began with.
It would have "many" flaws in it that you could not anticipate
It's interesting how so many people who commented are so quick to attack the bible and Christians when the simple question was, "How did sin enter the world?" Nobody gave a specific answer to the question, except for 2 people. I believe the reason why the only answer Atheists can come up with when asked the question about "sin," is to immediately attack the bible and Christianity when all they were asked was the simple question, what is sin? how did it come into the world?
The truth is, they have no answer. Therefore, in order to establish their credibility, they just resort to slanders, criticism, and blasphemous remarks. This proves that there is a God, and that Jesus is real, if he wasn't he wouldn't constantly be attacked. How can you attack something or someone who doesn't exist?
Funny, I thought the bible and Christianity did exist and that is the only place god and Jesus are real.
This line of reasoning is just emotional regurge. It is childish and lacks any depth.
There is nothing that is gonna prove God and Jesus to be real but their appearance, and that is NEVER gonna happen.
It's not God that is being attacked. It is your absurd concept of God.
A very good question and it sure made me think....
I feel that early on... man did plenty of things to survive on this planet and then gradually he became aware and started to distinguish between right and wrong. This made him define sin for all the wrong things he did. Awareness is the key to the above question..
getitrite, reading your response reminds me of the story about Noah and the ark. I'm thinking that while Noah was building the ark and warning the people that there was gonna be a great flood that would destroy the earth, imagine the shame Noah felt while he was doing it. Almost the entire race mocked him, insulted him, called him every name under heaven they could think of. Imagine the shame Noah's family felt, especially during the moments they were helping Noah build the ark while Noah was preaching to the people. However, to make it short, that is the same type of persecution (light persecution) that Christians are suffering today. Non-believers continue to mock us, our Christian leaders who are God's chosen, they mock the bible, call it a book of fiction. The only difference between Noah and us is that God's New Covenant does not require us to build an ark, but there will come a time when Jesus will return to earth with power and great glory, with his angels, and whether you believe or not, whether you continue to mock God and his chosen, you along with all the rest of the world will be destroyed. I don't want this to happen to anybody, including myself. My advice to all who is reading this, is you don't know the time, day, nor the hour when Christ will return. Things are all normal looking, but read Revelation, concerning the last days, and events that will take place, most of which has already taken place. The end is near, don't be left behind like the people who were locked outside of the ark. They drowned in that great flood. This time, there won't be a flood, but there will be fire and brimstone. This is a warning.
How did sin enter
Ans 1.By freedom [ You can eat all fruits you have ]
2.By law [All fruits are eatable except one]
Then the Hevenly person [DEVIL] find a way to insert sin.
Sin is the transgression of the Ten Commandments of God. There is no sin you can commit, without being one of the Ten Commandsments.
Wasn't it then carried in on ships through the great canal and delivered by seamen?
I recommend you to read a bible about this question :-)
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