unsaved loved ones...

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   Baileybearposted 14 years ago

   how do believers think they would feel going to heaven without their unsaved loved ones - wouldn't it be upsetting?

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      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Would you like to borrow my wooden spoon?

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      Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This is a good question.
        It can not be answered with a direct approach.
        This question requires answering other questions
      (for ourselves) before we can answer that one.
      
        If this can be done we have hit a home run.
      
        Ask ourselves ..  Who is saved? 
        Did Jesus die on the cross for Your and my "SINS" 2000 years before we committed them?
        Did he, while on the cross say
        "Father, Forgive them for they know not what they do?"
      
         And did he not accuse the religious leaders at the time of making up rules that would seem to keep others from being able to enter while they themselves refuse to?
      
      I think that SAVED is but another word for forgiven
      Who did Jesus die on the cross for? 
      
        I think that according to scripture, he forgave even those that stood at the door making up all of those rules that no one could keep.

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         Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I think he did not chose to die for anyone in the first place, rather pushed to death by the Romans.

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            Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            If the scriptures are to be believed... And I do.
            But it is a complicated mix.
              Jesus did say that for this purpose he came into the world, to fulfill all prophesy that had been written concerning him.

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      kessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This one principle governs all.
      
      "Each must take the responsibility for his own salvation"
      
      So therefore The kingdom of God is establish by this
      and it is not those whom YOU love nor those WHO LOVE YOU,
      
      but it is ALL those who ARE LOVE.
      
      But then again concept of Love varies greatly among men and men are fleshly.
      
      There is a spiritual concept of Love which governs all things.
      
      this sis the God kind of Love.

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      Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I'd say that when we get there; 
      
      we are gonnA  find out what it was all about ...  We will see everything in a different light and level of ????????
      
        As for the origional question ??  It aint gonnA be like that.

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      getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      I could not imagine a mother being content in paradise for eternity, knowing her child was roasting in unbearable torment for eternity. This is despicably selfish and lacks any compassion or decency.  Completely immoral.

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         Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I read some "answers" some were given:  that their tears were wiped away & their memory of their loved ones were erased.  Guess their memory of hell would be erased too.
         
         How's that?

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      brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      first of all, saved is not just forgiven, saved is an action each sinner takes to ask God to forgive their sins and then invites God into the life to guide it as God pleases. Saved is a process of prayer, done once if sincere.
      
      The answer depends on how amazing heaven is... This may seem selfish initially, but the earth is a wonderful creation, well, not so wonderful these days... but the earth that God will give His people to live on will be quite incredibly fantastic.
      
      On this earth prior to our deaths, we know what we know and we assess what we know by what we know, for we can do no other, our limited minds are carnal and of the flesh and when it comes to interpreting spiritual matters it is good to have a reliable book handy.
      Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things NEW. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful".
      
      This says he makes all things new.. makes is the modifier, new is the object. Does God make or remake our minds? I do not know. I accept the responsibility that each person has to make regarding their own salvation and i will have to suck it up i suppose if any loved ones aren't found by me. They could be there, but its a big planet.. etc..lol. Whos in charge and where is the list of names.?
      I cannot say what my personal spirituality will become before i die. Will i be a christian giant or a fence sitter. A renewed mind won't be a problem for someone who lives according to the spirit, but a fence sitter might be more carnally minded and still, like lots wife, be looking behind herself.
      
      I can see an unrenewed mind being problematic for some, perhaps depending on the quality of spirituality that soul has prior to death. Perhaps we reconcile this saddening condition before we die if we have time to ponder it long enough... I see a renewed mind being problematic for none.
      
      We will have to see what happens. I live today with the notion that my parents will not be saved, as they are anglicans and already have their preconceived notions of what religion is all about, as non scriptural and wrong as it is.. i will still try to get them saved.
      
      maybe heaven & hell are the same thing (they are not)

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      LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No believer wants to be in heaven without their loved ones.....but, believers do not contol the decisions of their loved ones. We only control our own decisions....
      
      The choice is individual and no matter what our preferences, or our desires are, we cannot change what we believe to be true. We can only hope that our loved ones come to believe as we do.

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         livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         ...or we can change our own beliefs.
         
         I abandoned Christianity for many reasons, but the fact that it condemns nonbelievers is certainly one of the big ones.

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   Bill Manningposted 14 years ago

   This is something that always puzzled me. I know many friends and family that think they are going to heaven.
   
   When I ask them about their kids,wives, husbands and so on if they would want to go without the others, the answers seem almost cold.
   
   It's always like "well I hope to see them there, but if not that's what god wants and I'll just be glad I was saved".
   
   Or "once you get up there your memory is erased and you just know what is there, so you don't care".
   
   Damn, if that's the type of shallow peeps in heaven I'd rather say hi to the big red guy with horns, I did move to Florida to be warm after all.

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      Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      like I moved to Queensland to be warm too

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   china manposted 14 years ago

   A man content to go to heaven alone will never go to heaven.
   
   Boethius - a long time ago     I guess nothing changes much then.

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   Shadesbreathposted 14 years ago

   You can get Mormons to retroactively save whomever you want, so just put a request for that in your will, a list of people you want retroactively saved.  Problem solved.  You don't even have to be a Mormon. You can actually live a fun, happy life free of superstition and ritual and judgment, and still get all the benefits of heaven after you croak.  Win-win, imo.

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      Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I already put you in for one.

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         Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Sweet, thanks. 

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      Patty Inglish, MSposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      ? - like paying donations to pray people out of Purgatory, which concept Pope Benedict did away with ?  Confusing to me.

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         Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Catholicism used to be much more customer friendly like that.  They cut back on the benefits and, lacking more violent means of conversion, they are in trouble.  With the church moribund on the top half of the globe, they have to make due with the Southern Hemisphere's hybridization of the Biblical myths in order to still claim a significant following.  It's kind of sad, really.

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   Mighty Momposted 14 years ago

   It's even easier than that, Shades.
   The Mormons are retroactively saving EVERYONE.
   You don't even have to put in a request!
   They are gathering up birth and death records and just going after ALL the souls.
   My ex-husband (RIP) would be pretty pissed to know this, as he was a devout atheist!

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      Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yep ..   I guess if it works and they getEM;  He will get over being an atheist pretty fast.

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      Shadesbreathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well, the upside of that, MM, is that if he was right, then the Mormons didn't do anything to him, and if he was wrong, well, he can thank them when he gets to the harp playing party.

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         Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         maybe heaven & hell are the same thing - listening to people worshipping a despot for eternity sounds like hell

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         MissEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Actually, we believe that everyone has their agency no matter what.  If you don't except, you don't except.  End of story.       

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      Patty Inglish, MSposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That's pretty interesting.

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   Pcunixposted 14 years ago

   I do have to say that the religious are always good for a chuckle..
   
   I love the one who won't be seeing his parents because they are the wrong kind of Christian - too precious!
   
   It is the season where people give those cakes in a can that everybody throws away, right? What are they called? Oh, yeah, I remember..

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      Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The way I added up all the souls that ever lived on earth, then died and went Hell.
      
      My Wild estimate of 100 billion souls, then add judgment day soon to be with 6 billion more.
      
      I can only imagine Satan will so so busy torturing all those billions including my love ones. It would force Satan to turn Hell into a hell razor hot exotic night club

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         brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         how do you know that all souls will be brought to judgment. Do you think that there are obvious souls that are condemned by their actions, hitler for example, Genghis khan, etc.. God does not waste time and he is very efficient and always works with a purpose, whether it be flooding the world, allowing people to go to disneyland or christians defending against muslimania.
         There is no one in hell.

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      brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      There are examples of this.. the pharisees, top of the line religious sect, far from the truth.. jesus said narrow is the way that leads to life and wide is the way to destruction. There are many examples of false worship but...
      
      God judges the hearts. If a person love God. ( a hard pill to swallow but easy to the person who realizes that God does all of ones walk ) If a person love God, god will change the doctrine. Say a catholic loves God and in their heart they long for truth and closeness to God. God will deal with them, he will change the doctrine of maryism to jesusism and the praying of saints will disappear, etc.. If a person is a buddhist and love what he thinks is God, god will come to him and change his doctrines too.
      If a person listens to God they will turn out okay but if they rebel and do not listen, they will eventually fall to the wayside

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      Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I remember my pentecostal mother being upset because I got married in anglican church - she should have been grateful I got married in a church at all

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   earnestshubposted 14 years ago

   What about the unloved saved ones?

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      brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      saved are saved. Our sins are in a different category, all sins prior to the sinners prayer are forgiven and forgotten. Unloved or loved the name of every saved person is in the book of life and has a reward of some stature.
      
      unless we fail and turn from the lord and crucify him afresh before others..

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         earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You mean like I do?

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   Tusitala Tomposted 14 years ago

   There's a lot of references to "He" being bandied about here.   How do any of us know if God is a He, a She, or an It?   Or whether "It" be all three.   We cannot conceive the inconceivable with our minds, so we label certain He's and She's as being Gods.   
   
   Quite frankly, I think either everyone is immortal or no one is.  My belief is for the former.  But that doesn't mean it's true.  It only means I think it is true.

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      livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This happens to be the way Jews see it, down to the personal interpretation/guess about the nature of the afterlife. But Jews do believe everyone ends up in the same place, regardless of their beliefs or even actions during life.

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Jesus died for everyone's sins.
         I think scripture says that we are saved by Grace, not by works!
         
         This I believe to be talking about everybody's sins!
         
           Now rewards? that is another matter!
         It is written that our good deeds are stored up in heaven for our rewards.
         
            Mother Teressa has a lot.  ME ?  Maybe being there is the only reward that I get?  And that is OK with Me!

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            livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I was raised Christian (Catholic), so, yes, I am fully aware of the Christian concept of salvation. To me, it's just the "carrot" part of the carrot & stick approach that the religion uses to goad people into becoming Christian.
            
            My point is that Jews do not believe in that; there is no dogma (i.e. required beliefs) in Judaism. And, as much as Christians and even ex-Christian atheists think "religious" is synonymous with Christian, apparently that's not the case.

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               Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Really? I lived in a large Jewish community in Wales when I was young, and they got some serious arguments for not observing the Sabbath correctly or eating pork, and any number of infractions of what I consider to be "dogma," including the idea that there is only one, all-powerful god. Can you still consider yourself Jewish if you believe in multiple gods and goddesses?

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                  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Specific communities of Jews might all believe the same thing. Other Jewish groups might disagree with them entirely. Orthodox communities, in particular, are famous for obsessing about the details. But no Jew speaks on behalf of all Jews, and there is no central authority in Judaism that can. Jews also do not believe any human has "extra access" to the divine, like the Pope, for instance.
                  
                  You didn't notice that the arguments were among themselves and didn't involve telling you as a non-Jew what to eat and whether or not to observe Sabbath?
                  
                  Almost all Jews believe in one God, but don't attempt to characterize God in any specific manner or image like Christians do (Christians do the same for the afterlife). As for a Jew that believes in multiple Gods or in Jesus or anything else that's not monotheistic: they're considered a lapsed Jew. But even so, they don't face eternal punishment or any other form of supernatural "stick" that I mentioned before.

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                     Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes - I did notice that. They never told me I should do XYZ. They made it clear they were different from me as did the Christians running the school we went to. I was forced to go to assembly every morning, my friends with the skull caps got to do something else which I was not privy to. Quite honestly - I had no interest in religion at that time (I was about 7) - I was just concerned that I had to listen to a boring sermon and they did not.

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                        Disappearingheadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Hello Mark. Nice to see you back in forumland again.

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                        livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        They were probably going to Torah study, which is arguably as boring as the sermon you were listening to.

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   Nikki D. Felderposted 14 years ago

   It's certainly upsetting here on earth.  Once in heaven, I think our glorified body comes with a glorified mindset.  Though we may remember our loved ones, all pain, hurt, guilt, shame...will be nonexistent.  I plan to worship and be grateful for my being present before the Lord.  I believe I'll be in such awe that I will not be consumed with the loss.  I do understand where you're coming from.  As you know the saints had to be comforted in Thessalonians about seeing their loved ones again.  What to do about loved ones that didn't make it is a praying subject for me.  Thanks.

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      Castlepalomaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Few get to go to heaven and billions go to hell.
      Many religions prepare their entire life to meet the lord and wind up meeting Satan.
      
      You have two choices:
      1. Go to an extreme place of happiness, like the funny farm on earth.
      2. Or be tortured for eternity
      
      Mmm, I wish I never knew so much about the bible, why can't I be like most people on earth, not being aware of the bible in the first place.

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    evvy_09posted 14 years ago

    I wouldn't want to go anywhere without my husband, who is my other half, or my brother.  They are both good hearted people, much nicer than me. I'm sure they'd make it though and hope the same for myself.  I try to do good in this world but I'm also fairly vindictive, especially if someone messes with my two favorite people.

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    Disappearingheadposted 14 years ago

    The word 'saved' is not one that Jesus used. 'Saved' is a word banged around by the church, and many wear it like a medal or get a sense of superiority from it. Saved from what exactly? Eternity in Hell. This concept contradicts the nature of God. Saved from judgement? No, everyone will face judgement.
    
    If the church really believed in 'saved' why does it only make half hearted attempts to 'save' their friends and neighbours? Why do so few in church get upset about the idea of friends and familly roasting in Hell? We have vague statements that "I hope they will make it to Heaven but if they don't it's because they chose not to believe". If the job of 'saving' was ours as the church says it is, then wouldn't we see an almost fanatical apporach like that of JWs? Wouldn't God put in each one an insatiable hunger to 'save' people?
    
    Jesus made it clear that the criteria was love God and love your neighbour. Hence the division about sheep and goats was not of whether they believed in Him but whether they did the looking after the poor and needy.
    
    Besides which, Jesu has paid the penalty for sin. Would God eternally punish those that He has forgiven; those for whom His anger has been averted by Jesus' sacrifice? Just as in Adam all have dies, so in Jesus have all been made alive. Oh but you say "One has to come and personnally ask for the forgivenenss for it to be given." No. When my children are naughty and I forgive them, I don't insist they ask for that forgiveness first. The forgiveness is my action, whether they ask for it or not. I might deal out discipline, but that's for their benifit and is still applied even when they are forgiven. Lake of Fire sounds more like a cleansing, discipline, than punishment.

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       brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       the unsaved are judged and get wrath
       the saved get rewards
       
       we are saved from both judgment and wrath
       
       glory to God

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    Jeramiposted 14 years ago

    I never did really play Church  but choose to keep God!
    
       I was exposed to Sunday school in third grade. They only taught things that Jesus was to have said.
    
       It was many years later (Late twenties) before I was exposed again.  That was self imposed. 
       I read the bible at home.
       I read only those things that were written in red before reading anything else which I did eventually read from cover to cover.
        When I did start going to church regularly I couldn't believe that they were teaching the things that they were.
       This didn't sound anything like what I had learned from reading the bible myself and making my own conclusions.
    
       When we read anything having a predisposition as to what we think that we are about to read ...  we miss the intended message.

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    Some more religious friends. Worth waiting till the very end!
    
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4tg4CftkPw&NR=1

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    Andrew Wrayposted 13 years ago

    "Can the believing husband in Heaven be happy with his unbelieving wife in Hell? Can the believing father in Heaven be happy with his unbelieving children in Hell? Can the loving wife in Heaven be happy with her unbelieving husband in Hell? I tell you, yea! Such will be their sense of justice that it will increase rather than diminish their bliss." Jonathan Edwards

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