What is Love?

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   Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years ago

   What does Love mean to you?
   
   How do you know it when you see it?
   
   What is unconditional love and what are the signs?
   
   What is self love and how does it help?  At what point does it hurt and become selfish?
   
   Where does love come from?
   
   Is love only a social thing, or would it be possible for people to somehow feel love if stranded like Robinson Caruso?
   
   Is love authored?  If so, by whom and how?
   
   What is the primary function of love, to help the one receiving love or the one giving love?  Or is it somewhere in between?
   
   Is love more than a feeling?  Is it an action?  Can love be expressed in inaction as well as action?  Is love to be found in committment that is unwavering?
   
   Can love be found in sacrifice?  Can love be found in redemptive concepts actualized through external actions?  Is it possible to love by giving one's life for another?  Or is this ignoring your own survival imperative?  Or is it somewhere in between or neither?
   
   Would it be possible or pointless to love if there was nothing worth physically fighting for?  Does love entail fighting for what you believe in?  Does love tie into belief or does love tie into people more? 
   
   If I believed in something but no one loved me, would it still be possible for me to feel loved even though I was not being loved?
   
   This forum is a good place for this topic.
   
   What is the spiritual/religious/metaphysical nature of love.  If you are not spiritual then what is the deeply emotional nature of love?  What does love mean to you and why does it mean what it means to you?
   
   My own opinion on the matter of love is that it is by no means "owned" or "authored" by any Divine Being/beings/essence, and that everyone is able to develop love for him/herself and the people that he/she loves without recourse to outside/inside "supernatural" forces (those allegedly part or parent of humanity).
   
   What are others' views on this topic?  I am curious!
   
   What does this mean to you?  Whence does it come from?
   
   

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      mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Love is the basic fabric of this universe buy not how we know it.
      There are two types of love,earthly or divine both being connected.
      Earthly love is one for family or friends.
      Then there is God which is  a divine light,love tissue permeating this entire univere.This love tissue is extremely intelligent and alive.
      Unconditional love is juts giving without thinking of the returns or consequences of your actions.
      Love unites and hate disintegrates.

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         Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you for your reply mohit, interesting...

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            mohitmisraposted 16 years agoin reply to this

            My pleasure Zarm:)

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      thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      What does Love mean to you?
      -The mental, physical, and spiritual\emotion connections to a significant other.
      
      How do you know it when you see it?
      -My heart beats in a different pattern, my eyes get dosed, and I have a strong urge to be with someone. To hold them, to never let them go...
      
      What is unconditional love and what are the signs?
      -I never had an answer for this =\
      
      What is self love and how does it help?  At what point does it hurt and become selfish?
      -It helps, if you don't love yourself you could become depressed and lead to bad things like death.
      -Also if you love yourself so much that you don't have anyone else, at one point you will want someone else-if mentally stable, and might lead to self destruction.
      
      Where does love come from?
      -Soup...Haven't you seen the Campbell's commercials?
      (JK)
      -Love come from the heart, spirit, and brain. Love is then displayed in more ways then can be explained.
      
      Is love only a social thing, or would it be possible for people to somehow feel love if stranded like Robinson Caruso?
      -It is social, you can't feel loved unless a living organism was there TO love and GIVE love. Love can be self made, it normally leads to going crazy or self destruction.
      
      Is love authored?  If so, by whom and how?
      -No, I love my girlfriend more then I could ever show, explain, or express. I never stop trying but just saying "I love you", buying her flowers, and singing isn't enough for me...
      
      What is the primary function of love, to help the one receiving love or the one giving love?  Or is it somewhere in between?
      -Each in-turn is its own feeling and reward. When you have both you feel the best. Normally giving love makes the person giving it happy, just not as much as the one receiving it. But the one who gives it and doesn't receive it can still be happy, and the one who receives it and doesn't give it can also be happy. But when two people both love giving love and receiving love then that is true love. Its like Super Putty, you mix it till the green is gone and then it makes a very strong bond that connects two things together.
      
      Is love more than a feeling?  Is it an action?  Can love be expressed in inaction as well as action?
      -Yes, love is a feeling, it is an emotion, and it is whatever you want to make out of it-like clay you need to mold it.
      -People believe the act of mating is the action of Love, I think its a core part of life, it isn't love, real love is kissing and holding each other-just wanting to be connected to that person anyway possible at all times.
      
      Can love be found in sacrifice?
      -Love can be found in sacrificing yourself for the one you really love, its the noblest act you can do, only if you didn't sacrifice yourself the other would die. Because if you could stay with what you love, if it is a person you should be with them as much as possible and your death would hurt them badly, only if it had to be done it is an act of love, if its out of self pity-it is a cruel act you cast upon the one you "love" and it will torment them till they are dead, remember that.
      
      Would it be possible or pointless to love if there was nothing worth physically fighting for?  Does love entail fighting for what you believe in?  Does love tie into belief or does love tie into people more? 
      -Possible to love something that there is nothing worth physically fighting for. Many people die for what they love, there beliefs that are just ideas and not actualization. They call these people monteyrs.(i forgot the word, it means to die for beliefs) 
      -If you don't fight for what you believe in, then you don't love it.
      -Love is stronger in people, because its easier for us to comprehend it. When you have that devotionship in an idea or belief it is a lot harder to convect others of this and to keep loving it.
      
      If I believed in something but no one loved me, would it still be possible for me to feel loved even though I was not being loved?
      -Yes, you believe in it. What it means is your dying for yourself, an act that you love yourself.
      
      This forum is a good place for this topic.
      
      What does love mean to you and why does it mean what it means to you?
      -Love to me means the emotional/spiritual, physical, and mental love of my girlfriend. Just being able to hold her, to kiss her, and to spend time with her. You have one life, if you find something you really really really love, you will never want to let it go-especially if it loves you back. The way life works you have to, but because you love you hate not being with them. I will say there are times we are separated that I cry, and I know she cries because we can't be together and we want to be.
      
      
      My own opinion on the matter of love is that it is by no means "owned" or "authored" by any Divine Being/beings/essence, and that everyone is able to develop love for him/herself and the people that he/she loves without recourse to outside/inside "supernatural" forces (those allegedly part or parent of humanity).
      
      What are others' views on this topic?  I am curious!
      -Love is what you feel in your heart, spirit, and mind. Everyone loves different things and different people. Love is your clay, mold it to whatever shape you want it and never let anyone mold that a way you don't want it to. If you think a little fairy shoots you with an arrow then thats what you molded.
      
      I hope you clearly get my view of love, I answered all the questions I feel comfortable answering.

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         Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you, I am fascinated by what you have written to some degree.

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   RFoxposted 16 years ago

   Must go to work now but I will definitely answer tonight. Thought provoking questions Zarm!
   
   

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   knolyourselfposted 16 years ago

   I enjoy the love / hate duality just for fun. In fact I try to fall in love with some woman every time I go out, and generally I succeed. But that's infatuation. Then there is love that transcends duality, or the love of everything. Maybe the pure joy of living, if you can do it.

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   leftquarkposted 16 years ago

   You ask a lot of questions all at once, but here's my answer as to what love it.  Love is composed of three parts; commitment, passion, and intimacy.  Depending on the relationship you may only have one or two of these characteristics.  Commitment + Intimacy is what good friends share.  Commitment + Passion might be a couple who just have a physical relationship.  Passion + Intimacy is romantic love, like a summer fling.  True love is all three.

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      Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting reply leftquark, thankyou.

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   SparklingJewelposted 16 years ago

   I agree with what everyone says...Because love is what we make of it from what we learned of it in the examples in our lives until we start to create it differently, or not, within ourselves.

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      Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting reply SJ, thank you.
      
      
      
      One can never have answers if one never asks.  I have asked and here come the answers!

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   Mishaposted 16 years ago

   That's a tough one Zarm
   
   I remember discussing these kinds of issues with my second wife, when we were still dating and she was like 20 and me like 37
   
   At that point we were mostly interested in man-woman relationship, and I was telling her about my experience that initial rush goes away sooner or later, and gets (or does not get) replaced with something else - much closer to the one what happens between mother and child or brothers and sisters.
   
   Sometimes I think we have one word describing too many things in this case. Mixing lovers' lust with divine love does not make much sense. Sometimes it does, however, and then it seems like we use the word properly
   
   I don't really want to leave your questions without my answer, but I can't write a comprehensive answer now - I don't know it myself I have bits and pieces I collected during my not-so-short life that did not click into places yet.
   
   Unconditional love is a toughest one, and you'll understand that when you become a parent yourself. Those who did not have kids can't understand how persistently nasty children can be in their attempts to drive parents crazy. And even at the moment of being insanely furious at your kids for that you still love them - just because you do. Unconditionally

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      Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      That sounds pretty interesting and something I am sure is very rewarding to experience, the love of a Father and Mother for their Child or Children.  It must feel good to be a dad, not great always, but good.
      
      I am happy to hear you are a parent, it is it's own reward, evidently.
      
      

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   Inspirepubposted 16 years ago

   I agree with Misha - English has one word for many different experiences.
   
   Love is a feeling (or actually, several feelings) - there is filial love (brotherly love), which happens between people who know that for the rest of their lives, if they are really in trouble, the other person will be there. Sort of like "Home is the place where, if you have to go there, they have to take you in."
   
   Filial love does not always exist between biological relatives, and often exists between people who are unrelated by blood - our "chosen family" of friends, partners, and sometimes even the biological family of our partners.
   
   Romantic love is the classic warmth-in-the-heart, desire to spend time together type of love. It is independent of sexual attraction - you can have one without the other, although they often occur together.
   
   Sexual attraction is not love.
   
   That dizzy "in love" feeling of the early stages of a relationship is not actually an emotion - it activates the reward pleasure/pain centres of the brain, not the limbic cortex. It is a motivational state, rather than an emotion.
   
   So that is the feeling of love.
   
   But then there is "being loving".
   
   I have had people, who said they loved me and I am sure had all the right warm-and-fuzzy emotions happening, treat me in very unloving ways.
   
   Therefore, I do not make decisions about how I will act based on how I or how they FEEL.
   
   I watch to see how they ACT.
   
   If they turn up to help when things get tough, if they listen to me when I need to vent, if they take my thoughts and preferences seriously, if they do things they know will make me happy even when it is inconvenient (ESPECIALLY when it is inconvenient), then I will consider that they love me, and treat them accordingly.
   
   If they say all the right things and are kissy-huggy when we are together, but they keep being "too busy" to actually come and see me more often than once every six months to a year, or they make dates and break them, then I don't really count that as "loving" me, even though I am sure they have all the right bodily/mental sensations happening when they think about me.
   
   Loving feeling without loving action is to genuine love as masturbation is to sex. Better than nothing most of the time, but not a patch on the real thing.
   
   If someone is thinking lovingly about me but not doing anything to make a positive impact on my life, then it's like they are masturbating while fantasising about me. I'm happy for them, I'm sure they are enjoying themselves, but it does nothing for me.
   
   Jenny

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      Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for your reply Jenny.  I do agree that a true friend will be one who is there when times are very hard and not just one who shows up occasionally to say hi in a sort of "AWE ITS SO GOOD TO SEE YOU, lovvy duvvy" way. 
      
      Good friends are in it for the hard times as it makes them proud of the person they are befriending in the process, to see that person grow and overcome things.  In my opinion such love can be quite self sacrificial at times.  As in sacrificial of time, sacrificial of energy, sacrificial of emotional balance even, all for the purpose of giving a loved friend the time of day he/she needs to "have someone there".
      
      Interesting thoughts overall Jenny.
      
      Oh btw, as far as jerking off goes, well I will say quite bluntly that I agree that using people as ways to "jerk off" emotionally, is never a good idea.  In fact I would even go so far as to contend that it is perhaps immoral...

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      sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      You are my Godess Jenny.   *bowing down icon thingy that Misha always uses* 
      You just told me what I needed to know, and I didn't even have to ask. 
      You kick ass.  Thanks! 

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         Inspirepubposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         Awww, shucks ... you are so sweet. Glad it made a difference.
         
         What was it you needed to know, anyway?
         
         Jenny

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            sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this

            "Loving feeling without loving action is to genuine love as masturbation is to sex. Better than nothing most of the time, but not a patch on the real thing."
            
            It clicked. 

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   Jeromeoposted 16 years ago

   Things That Love Is
   
   15 Coming now to the positive side, the things that love is, Paul begins: “Love is long-suffering.” It has been said that there can be no such thing as Christian fellowship without long-suffering, that is, without patiently putting up with one another. That is so because all of us are imperfect, and our imperfections and shortcomings try others. No wonder the apostle Paul lists this aspect first as to what love is!
   
   16 Paul states that love is also “kind.” That is, love is helpful, thoughtful, considerate of others. Kindness manifests itself in things big and little. The neighborly Samaritan was certainly showing kindness to the man waylaid by robbers. (Luke 10:30-37) Love delights in saying “please.” To say, “Pass the bread” is a command. To preface that with “please” makes it a request. Husbands are kind to their wives when they heed the counsel at 1 Peter 3:7: “You husbands, continue dwelling in like manner with them according to knowledge, assigning them honor as to a weaker vessel, the feminine one, since you are also heirs with them of the undeserved favor of life, in order for your prayers not to be hindered.” Wives are kind to their husbands when they show them “deep respect.” (Ephesians 5:33) Fathers are kind to their children when they follow the counsel at Ephesians 6:4: “Fathers, do not be irritating your children, but go on bringing them up in the discipline and mental-regulating of Jehovah.”
   
   17 Love does not rejoice over unrighteousness but “rejoices with the truth.” Love and truth go hand in hand—God is love, and at the same time, he is “the God of truth.” (Psalm 31:5) Love rejoices at seeing truth triumph over and expose falsehood; this accounts in part for the great increase taking place in the number of Jehovah’s worshipers today. However, since truth is contrasted with unrighteousness, the thought may also be that love rejoices with righteousness. Love rejoices at the triumph of righteousness, as Jehovah’s worshipers are commanded to do at the fall of Babylon the Great.—Revelation 18:20.
   
   18 Paul also tells us that love “bears all things.” As the Kingdom Interlinear shows, the thought is that love covers over all things. It does not “give away a fault” of a brother, as the wicked are prone to do. (Psalm 50:20; Proverbs 10:12; 17:9) Yes, the thought here is the same as at 1 Peter 4:8: “Love covers a multitude of sins.” Of course, loyalty would keep one from covering over gross sins against Jehovah and against the Christian congregation.
   
   19 Love “believes all things.” Love is positive, not negative. This does not mean that love is gullible. It is not quick to believe sensational statements. But for one to come to have faith in God, one must have the will to believe. So love is not skeptical, unduly critical. It does not resist believing as does the atheist, who dogmatically states that there is no God, nor is it like the agnostic, who dogmatically asserts that it is simply impossible to know where we came from, why we are here, and what the future will be like. God’s Word gives us assurance in regard to all these things. Love is also ready to believe because it is trusting, not being unduly suspicious.
   
   20 The apostle Paul assures us further that love “hopes all things.” Since love is positive, not negative, it has strong hope in all that is promised in God’s Word. We are told: “The man who plows ought to plow in hope and the man who threshes ought to do so in hope of being a partaker.” (1 Corinthians 9:10) Even as love is trustful, it is also hopeful, always hoping for the best.
   
   21 Finally, we are assured that love “endures all things.” It is able to do so because of what the apostle Paul tells us at 1 Corinthians 10:13: “No temptation has taken you except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out in order for you to be able to endure it.” Love will cause us to look to the many examples in the Scriptures of God’s servants who have endured, chief of whom is Jesus Christ, as we are reminded at Hebrews 12:2, 3.

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      sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Facinating!  This is probabaly the most compelling thing you have said, that I know of anyways.  Anyways, I can't get into my email cause hotmail is down or something. So if you see something from Morganbutterfly, that would be me using another account. 
      
      ttyl,ffl
      l

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      Zarm Nefilinposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for sharing Jeromeo, this is somewhat interesting.
      
      What I find most interesting is that in your view what is important is the will to believe, not the justification so much, just the desire and will to carry it out.
      
      Also, skepticism is not undue criticism, hell, it's not even criticism.  It is a refusal to believe "just because it feels good and I want to".  Skepticism is an attitude that demands something more solid than that and people exercise skepticism everday, they do it for instance when they go to buy a used car and the used car salesman tries to make them feel really good about their purchase by emphasizing the merits and de-emphasizing the demerits.
      
      I choose to be skeptical when people "witness" God to me as well, for as St. Paul said about "faith" being in vain, it is not something to be believed in with insufficient justification.  I cannot help but smile in a somewhat sad amusement at how you cheapen your own faith by implying that really what counts is the desire for faith and the will to keep it, and that understanding needs to come after one already believes and not before (as in faith need not have a logical foundation and the premises need not be self evident).
      
      Hard to carrot and stick people when you talk about hell, that is why the most successful conversion processes shy away from the fire and brimstone until after a convert is made, and instead focus on the love of Jesus.  Carrot and stick them means to get the rabbit to focus on the carrot so much that he fails to notice the stick or the trap he is being led into.  Once he is in the trap then you can tell him about hell, but not before, as he might suspect something.
      
      I don't dogmatically assert anything about God, I simply have yet to hear a version of "God" that is A.  Coherent and that B.  Doesn't rely on some logical fallacy or multiple out to exist.
      
      Martin Luther was quite correct when he stated that Reason is the enemy of Faith.
      
      Quite correct, and at least he was honest about this.  Most people nowadays prefer to be dishonest about this (including the current Pope of the Roman Church).
      
      Let me make it quite clear to you, that skeptics do not put the will to believe into action before belief in God is made intellectually feasible, only after.

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   patnamohanposted 16 years ago

   God has created two things
   
   One God to love & second woman to have sexual love.
   
   thanks
   
   Patnamohan

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    quensdayposted 16 years ago

    Hello there,
    
    What a compelling topic for discussion. I believe that people overrate the complexity of love, and attach so many nuances to this little 4 letter word. To me, love is merely a reaction to a stimulus, and that stimulus is something you either; want to own, or want to owe. I think that people are intrinsically greedy people so the owe/own concept would be fabulous to insert in this definition. An example of the own stimulus would be a romantic partner; you want to own his/her admiration as well. An example of the owe concept is familial love, love for a nation, love for a friend, subscription to a particular deity, because these are things that you feel you owe part of the happiness in your life to. This is not to say that you aren't happy with a romantic partner; you are happy, but in a romantic relationship, there is always a bit of jealousy involved regarding the loyalty of the other side because of the ownership complex. I think that the failure of romantic relationships traces to this owning concept; either too much ownership (domestic abuse, crazy marriage craving internal clock women) or when there is nothing left to own, such as lovestruck women or men who display their attraction too vehemently. These relationship fail because the other side do not see something to chase anymore and get bored. This is why there are waves of novels that states that men love "bitches" aka strong, confident, and independent women, and why many females do not like wishy washy men.
    
    I think that love is an emotion, and like other healthy emotions, are ebbs in and out. You can never fully control the feelings of your partner; heck, divorce happens, and marriage is the closest tangible thing love gets. Thus, I don't buy into the whole unconditional, forever and ever love idea.
    
    Hope this answers your question! This is only my view on love, and I'm probably wrong about it.

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    knolyourselfposted 16 years ago

    'Thus, I don't buy into the whole unconditional, forever and ever love idea.'
    People change and are perhaps no longer compatible. If love is conditioned on never changing, then people must not educate themselves. If people change, then unconditional love accepts that. If love is conditioned on static unchanging prerequisites, then there will be conflict and best separation, which is tough with kids.

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