Is waiting for second coming /messiah manifestation of human hope?

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   pisean282311posted 12 years ago

   there are various religions in the world...largest being Christianity , followed by Islam , followed by hinduism...all three have concepts like second coming and avtaar...heard that judaism too have similar concept..is second coming or waiting for messiah manifestation of human hope?...

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      luabuposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      no it is not pisean
      at best it is dillusional
      Man's evolutionary energy is to be instinctively competitive.As we recognise this genetic programming within ourselves we feel flawed and endangered.
      
      We subconsciously imagine ourselves,not as an aggressive ambitious species but as sinful beings on our way back to perfection and harmony through redemption.
      
      We should move away from this delusion,recognise the depths of wickedness in our past and set up structures to allow us live with our fellow creatures and ourselves without coming to further harm.
      
      Religion is the opium of the people.
      
      Unless we go into re-hab and confront our demons we are doomed to overdose.

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         pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         interesting thoughts...

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      pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      In Christianity and some Eastern religions it is not the physical second coming that they seem to be pointing to but more of a spiritual awakening. A remembering... some might view it, of our original state.

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         pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         original state?...now what does that mean?

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            Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It means don't hold your breath for the Second coming !

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            pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            We are spiritual essences having a human experience. We have forgotten that which is eternal (spirit). We all know physical existence is temporary and we will die. Yet what is eternal (spirit or energy if you like) cannot be destroyed. It only changes.
            
            The second coming therefore seems to be pointing to becoming "aware" of what is eternal. Pain and suffering etc then dissipate because they are elements connected to that which is temporal in nature. IE the brain that filters what flows through it.
            
            The resurrection of Christ demonstrates the spiritual essence  that dwells within the body well.
            
            It makes sense that like a thief in the night the second coming will occur because most expect Jesus floating on a cloud or something like that.

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               luabuposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               you were going well for a while there pennyofheaven and then you blew it
               it happens to us all
               using Christ's resurrection as  a kind of metaphor  for what went before just nose dived your plane into a ploughed field
               then you walk away from the crash site with a little bit of pennyofheaven giberish
               probably suffering from the effects of the crash or delayed vertigo from the altitude of your flight
               I was hoping you could fly
               luabu

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                  pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Haha, no I can't fly!
                  
                  So you don't think that Christ resurrection illustrates our non physical state?

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                     luabuposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Sorry pennyofheaven No

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                        pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        ok

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      kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Knowledge lead to hope and there is much knowledge about a second coming of Messiah, according to each religion.
      
      Now is that knowledge Truth or False?
      
      Since the false have no way of revealing itself except with truth, we must conclude that there is truth to second coming.
      
      When the truth and false has been separated completely, we have now the plain TRUTH...
      
      So We see that the coming of Truth is the second Coming...
      
      The way of the Kingdom of God is the way of perfection,
      thus we see that individual within the corporate  and the corporate itself, must be of the same nature.
      
      So if Truth has not come to that one individual, there can be no corporate second coming for that one.
      
      And its the combination of the individuals make up the Corporate.
      
      Therefore any individual whose hope is for a Corporate second coming as per his religion , it is vain cause he never found Truth as an individual so trusted the false.

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         pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         can't you write in simple english...

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            kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It is plain and simple enough english to those who will understand

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               pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               okie...then can you complicate it so that i can understand it

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         Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         @Kess
         
         "Since the false have no way of revealing itself except with truth, we must conclude that there is truth to second coming.
         
         When the truth and false has been separated completely, we have now the plain TRUTH...
         
         So We see that the coming of Truth is the second Coming"
         
         What????

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         pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Makes sense to me!

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      paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Jesus' Second Coming has already taken place in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908

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         pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         well there you go again ...surely jesus looked healthier in second coming if you are right 

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         Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Can I ask who else but you noticed ?
         
         And shouldn't someone put an Ad in the paper saying, "Sorry Guys it's all Over and You Missed IT !!!"

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            pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            

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      Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes.
      It's mankind's only hope, actually.

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         Lady Wordsmithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Really?  I've got lots of hope, and it's nothing to do with any kind of erm... 'coming'.

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      Daniel Carterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It's hope, but it's also a symptom of the need for humanity to be rescued from themselves, rather than take responsibility of their lives and actions and make the changes required. We need to rescue ourselves first, make the changes in us that promote and foster real hope, and then understand that whether or not Jesus comes again, we're completely good with all of it.
      
      The more desperate we are for Jesus to save us, the more out of control we have allowed our lives to become. We have the power to take back control and make positive changes. Neither Jesus or God would prevent us from learning such important lessons, by rescuing us, only to watch us start the same old self destructive patterns again once the rescue is over. We might as well get on with living a better life.

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         luabuposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         good stuff Daniel,
         We might as well get on with living a better life
         
         why wait and waste time/why reference all that we do now to something that is at best /a notion
         
         its like the person at an isolated bus stop who insists on not walking home because  a bus is bound to come along sometime

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         pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yes agree.
         
         Your post brings to mind something I heard a while back. Don't know if it was a joke or making a very valid point. It goes something like this...
         
         A man was drowning and he prayed to God to save him. Not long after, a boat came along and offered to help him. He refused the help offered saying. No it's okay my God will save me. He continued to pray to God. Three more boats came along offering to save him. Yet he continued to refuse. He died.
         In heaven, he asked God "why didn't you save me". God replied saying, "I sent you four boats and you refused me".

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            Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Here's another one. A child was lying starving to death in the streets and he prayed to god for some food, but god decided to send another kid to Disneyland instead. The child died of starvation. True story.

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               pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               Sad how that happens.....
               
               Then the child gets to heaven and says to God..why did you let me starve and then die...God replied.. I asked many people to feed you but no one listened. I even asked the dude that sent his child to Disneyland. Alas they are deaf and do not listen to what their heart is telling them...

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                  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  God simply replied, "I denied you food and allowed you to starve to death. I give food to others but not to you. Please remember, as god, I work in mysterious ways that mere humans need not understand."

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                     pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Ok God could have said that too!

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                        Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Whether god said that or not is irrelevant, his actions, or lack thereof, spoke volumes. He lets kids starve to death by the boatload every day, but manages to send other kids to Disneyland, all because of prayer.

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                           pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           
                           
                           I agree because it was hypothetical anyway.
                           
                           What you say would be true if one believes God is this all powerful being sitting in the eithers somewhere waving a magic wand or using puppet strings to control.
                           
                           God is perceived in many different ways. We each have our own way. That is not my perception of God.

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                              Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Exactly. Gods are personal thingies that don't really exist. If they did, you wouldn't have your own personal perception, we would all have the same perception.

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                                 pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 Then why blame God if you don't believe God exists? I don't get it?

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                                    Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    Because you believe in a god. It's obvious to anyone why there are children starving and why other kids go to Disneyland, neither having anything to do with praying or imaginary gods.
                                    
                                    Yet, believers will state quite emphatically that god sent their kid to Disneyland.
                                    
                                    Get it now?

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                                       pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       
                                       
                                       Ah yes I get it thanks!
                                       
                                       You are quite right in my opinion. Has nothing to do with (imaginary is your opinion) God or praying.

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               Me, Steve Waltersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               A very sad, terrible story...Beelzedad! Which kid ended his suffering on Earth first?

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      logic,commonsenseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I thought that's what love my chris said Obama was!

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      Twenty One Daysposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      "Hope exists as a bridge from rebellion to faith.
      Man lives between them and hope seems to be all he has.
      He does not want to rebel, yet does not exercise his faith.
      A paradox; a breeding ground for things surreal; a shimmering panteón of emotions and thoughts.
      
      -James

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   Merlin Fraserposted 12 years ago

   I tend to agree with luabu about the whole thing being some form of mass delusion or at best an over dose of wishful thinking but not I suspect for the same reasons.
   
   I suspect that given the way Hollywood makes movies and how they treat any alien life forms who dare land upon the Earth by surrounding them with heavily armed trigger happy troops just dying to blow the crap out of them.  Or whisk them off to the Lab to dissect them see what makes them tick....
   
   Then anyone foolish enough to wander around in a long shirt and sandals proclaiming;  "YE ! 'Tis Me... I'm Back !!!"  like some sort of ancient latter day Arnold Schwarzenegger...will receive pretty much the same general treatment.
   
   Where for instance would he appear ?  Can’t go home can he, can you imagine the response he’d get anywhere in the Middle East these days ?   If he pops up in the US Bible Belt nobody outside would believe him.... anywhere else he would probably get locked up as a nut job !   
   
   However, I suppose if it keeps some peoples paddles in the water and helps them get through the day it’s a fairly harmless delusion much as thinking a large man in a red suit is about to pop down your chimney and leave presents in ten days time, or that it’s still worth putting your teeth under the pillow.  My old granny used to keep her dentures under the pillow and she never did win the lottery !

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      luabuposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      thanks for ruining christmas/my kids are reading
      you're a wizard merlin

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         Merlin Fraserposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         OOPS !
         Sorry Kids... That Fat guy in the Red Suit you saw in your livingroom kissing you r Mum with his hand on her Butt... He realy, really was Santa Clause
         
         Honest !

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   insearchof truthposted 12 years ago

   You all better hope He's coming, cause the earth can't take much more before it can't sustain life, or we just blow each other up.

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      pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      earliest god or messenger of god or messiah cannot be traced back to 0.2 million years...so human survived without them and surely can survive without second coming too...that is not my question....my idea was to understand the emotions behind second coming concept...

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      Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      @ Insearch of truth
      
      Well, he's not coming. He/she/it doesn't exist.  I agree it's a delusion by many because they can't face what is around them and inside them.

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      Sophia Angeliqueposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Deleted
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         pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         well even by posting it once...you could have expressed your opinion

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      pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I hope it doesn't come to that. We will have to start all over again!

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   EnglishMposted 12 years ago

   Humans have a penchant for contemplating the superficial rather than the profound.

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      pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Isn't there a saying...The simple will confound the wise?

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         AKA Winstonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         There'a nother saying, too: There's a sucker born every minute - P.T. Barnum

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            pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            What has that got to do with anything?

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            Lady Wordsmithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            

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   livelongerposted 12 years ago

   I think so, but there's a difference between passively waiting and actively working towards a messianic age.
   
   Jews do not believe that the messiah will be some sort of supernatural being that will usher in some magical era. In fact, many of us don't believe in the messiah at all, but rather the fulfillment of a higher level of human development: no war, no death, etc.
   
   This is why Judaism categorically rejects Jesus as the messiah, as well as Bar Kochba, Shabbatai Zvi, etc. and other would-be messiahs, and reminds us that we're supposed to be actively working towards a more peaceful world.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You may be correct in the reason Judaism categorically rejects Jesus, but the original reason is outlined in the Bible.   A huge lie and manipulation of the resurrection events is what led the Jews of that time astray.  Lies often do hugely impact history, and in this case is to this day keeping many people from recognizing the Truth.

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         pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         but how do you know that what you think as truth might be lie and what you think is lie , might be truth...m just trying to understand how you come to conclusion about truth?

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            Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Common sense and Spiritual sense.
            
            People can be fooled lots of times.  But when all things are confirmed via the Bible and in turn the Spirit confirms those as well, I know I've found the Truth.   I don't live in doubt like all those people who say there are many different truths about creation and such, because that's impossible.   There can only be one ultimate Truth of such basic and awesome things.

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               Woman Of Courageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Brenda, You are absolutely right. God bless you!

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         livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         The reason that Jews do not consider Jesus the messiah are many, but mostly for this reason alone: he did not fulfill any of the requirements whatsoever.
         
         The fact that you think this means Jews are "astray" is really meaningless to us, much like, I'm sure, Mormons saying that you're believing a lie and not reading the right book is meaningless to you.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            He fulfilled ALL the requirements.   You will believe another lie, it seems.   Okay.  As you wish.

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               livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               It seems you don't know what the Jewish prophets said about the messiah. Here are just a few of the requirements, none of which have been fulfilled:
               
               - the Sanhedrin will be re-established. (Isaiah 1:26)
               - there will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
               - all of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
               - weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
               
               Like I said, Jesus wasn't the only one. There have been several Jews throughout history who have claimed to be the messiah, most recently the Chabad rebbe Schneerson.

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         luabuposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         A huge lie and manipulation of the resurrection events is what led the Jews of that time astray.
         
         
         if there was a hub for this i would read it  Brenda even a forum thread?

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            Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Both good ideas!
            
            No time for a hub right now;  been doin' housework and my RA is hurting my hands....
            
            I'll post a thread and leave it to see if it elicits any good discussion;  I'll have to come back to it later.....

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      luabuposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      working for a better future sounds good to me  livelonger

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         livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, and no particular faith is required to do so, either!

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   Dee aka Nonnaposted 12 years ago

   Like "insearchoftruth" said... I really hope there is a second coming because the promise that comes after there, if true, is a world that all of us would want to live in. 
   
   I was raise Catholic, Methodist and Baptist... my dad was a catholic and my mother methodist.  We would take turns going to each church.  When my dad died my mother took us and join the baptist church because her sister was there.  As an adult I've read and studies various other.  Some days I call myself a Buddist-Baptist.  That said I do think there is a second coming. When, know one knows for sure.  Also, I am not a religious person but I do love the way I feel after I pray, meditate or read something spirtually inspirational.

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   skyfireposted 12 years ago

   My favorite topic 
   
   How come kitteh who died on cross helplessly is going to resurrect again ? I mean kitteh being son of god -so awesomely powerful got his backside kicked by mere humans is going to save us ? Yeah, yeah

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      Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      A manisfestation of the Promise. Rhino breath... I mean Skyfire just thinks in material terms. He and his buddies are in for the rudest awakening of all. See you guys in the NEXT incarnation. Then things will really strike you funny.

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   paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

   Jesus' Second Coming has already taken place in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908.
   
   One could wait till eternity; Jesus won't come literally and physically.

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      pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      well then when is jesus's third coming?

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         pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Is there a 3rd coming?

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            pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            well since paar says 2nd coming has already occured and no  one except paar's sect knows about it...i thought may be jesus would not mind coming again , so that entire world knows at it...i was just pulling leg of paar...he is good friend of mine and we disagree on everything...i and paar have relationship of disagreement

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               pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Haha, ok all good!

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            luabuposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            will there be a fourth reich pennyofheaven

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               pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               No idea?

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         paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Jesus was to come again symbolically to falsify the untruth invented by Paul in Jesus' name; this had happened with the coming of the Promised Messiah 1835-1908.
         
         There will be no third coming of Jesus.

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            Greek Oneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I can't believe I missed it by less than 100 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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               Lady Wordsmithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               So, what did he do then, when he came back?

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                  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  What in the name of misinformation? Paar, you sure are some kind of comedian! Where do you get this stuff from? Ever do stand-up? You ARE a hoot! Must be that English air.

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                     paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     What comedy? I write no comedy.
                     
                     I express what I sincerely understand; and I am open to change if somebody gives a brillinat argument that convinces me.

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                  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Jesus in Second Coming 1835-1908 told that the “Christianity” as invented by Paul and the Church was wrong and it has nothing to do with Jesus:
                  
                  1.    Jesus did not die on the Cross.
                  2.    Jesus did not resurrect from the dead; as he never died on the Cross in the first place.
                  3.    Jesus did not ascend to the skies.
                  4.    Jesus migrated from Judea and went to India.
                  5.    Jesus married and had children.
                  6.    Jesus was not god or son of god; he was son of man and a truthful Messenger Prophet of the Creator-God.
                  7.    Trinity is wrong; there is only ONE, Creator-God.
                  8.    Jesus was a follower of Moses and did not cancel Torah.
                  
                  etc

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   paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

   Jesus expalined himself as to what is meant by the Secong Coming; Jews were waiting for the Second Coming of Elijah; Jesus told them that John his cousin was the Elijah to come.   
   
   Jesus in Second Coming 1835-1908 told that the “Christianity” as invented by Paul and the Church was wrong and it has nothing to do with Jesus:
   
   1.    Jesus did not die on the Cross.
   2.    Jesus did not resurrect from the dead; as he never died on the Cross in the first place.
   3.    Jesus did not ascend to the skies.
   4.    Jesus migrated from Judea and went to India.
   5.    Jesus married and had children.
   6.    Jesus was not god or son of god; he was son of man and a truthful Messenger Prophet of the Creator-God.
   7.    Trinity is wrong; there is only ONE, Creator-God.
   8.    Jesus was a follower of Moses and did not cancel Torah.
   
   etc

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      libby101aposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Lets look at something else Paar. Which account is correct concerning Muhammad's vision? There are five different versions in the Qur'an.. can you explain to us which is correct?
      
      (1) In Suras 53:2-18 & 81:19-24, Allah personally appeared. (2) In Suras 16:102 & 26:192-194 he was called by "the Holy Spirit". (3) In Sura 15:8 the angels announced his prophetic ministry; and , (4) The angel Gabriel told him of his ministry and hands him the Quran. Who were Muhammad's first supposed converts? Genies! Muhammad supposedly preached to & converted genies in Suras 46:29-35; 72:1-28.
      
      How convenient that there was no one around to confirm his calling to be a prophet. Obviously there are some major flaws in how Muhammad was called to his so-called prophet-hood. Genies? If a man believes in Genies should we believe anything he saw?

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    Eaglekiwiposted 12 years ago

    paarsurrey
    
    Why did you post so many religious threads?
    
    Are you perhaps a little obscessed?

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