Not proof, but very compelling evidence of the Power of God.
This man raised from the dead by prayer, in Jesus' Name.
nothing in that video proves the man was dead in the first place. Sorry I dont have faith in you tube videos. Can you seriously state that you believe this man wa dead and was resurected? What do you base this rediculous claim on?
What proof could be on any video that you would consider?
More to the point - What nonsense wouldn't you consider to be proof of your Invisible Super Being?
Does narrowly avoiding stepping in a dog turd in the street count as proof of God's awesome love for his children? Tickets to Disneyland were mentioned by some one else.
Seems the proof is everywhere if you choose to believe this nonsense. Cannot imagine why you would need youtube videos.
Why would you need youtube videos? Having doubts?
As always, not answering the question.
You make me
Oh - did you want me to answer the question? I thought you asked sopme one else.
I am open minded. I can certainly be persuaded your god exists. All it has to do is prove it to me.
Any proof would work for me dj. Anything at all in fact. It would need to be actual proof though.
Of course - if you read your book occasionally - you would know this cannot be forthcoming.
Oh, I read my book alright.
Proof can be forthcoming at any moment.
There are more than a few atheists that have "turned" to the Living God.
Sadly, the kind of trivial nonsense you call "proof" is not the way He works.
He doesn't dance to our tune! (If you get my drift.)
Yes - I get your drift dj. It is nonsense - of course - but I understand what you said. Excellent cop out by the way.
How odd that you show a youtube video claiming "compelling evidence," and then say god would not provide the same thing you just said you showed.
Contradictory - don't you think?
come on now, Mark.
You told me what the difference is between "compelling evidence" and "proof" is.
This is evidence of the power of God, and NOT proof. DID YOU READ the op?
Just how did I cop out? You're the one who flies off topic all the time.
Oh - so he gives trivial nonsense as "compelling evidence" for us, but will not stoop to our level to provide "proof."
Why is that dj? I assume this is the trivial nonsense you think I would accept as proof? Yet you think it is compelling evidence? How incredibly funny.
Trivial and funny?
Bet it wouldn't be if it was someone you loved, or were close to.
Dear me. You were the one that said god did not provide the sort of trivial nonsense I would accept as proof - at the same time showing this as compelling evidence. Is this the sort of trivial nonsense you know i would accept or not?
No wonder your religion causes so many wars.
Something that is impossible to fake. Did you know they can fake aliens on video? Magic too? Or do you believe harry potter and star wars are documentaries and totally fact based?
I know, if the dude literally stepped out of my computer screen to hand me some permanent keepsake of the experience, say something I could not easily happen upon on my own, like a diamond the size of my head. Basically I would believe it if the guy steps out of my monitor and I will testify it to be true when I have a proof in my hands that I could not fake.
Would you be interesting in buying a bridge?
I got a real corker out back you might want to buy
Did that video look like a fake?
It looks pretty amateurish to me.
Oh, and the doctor wasn't a doctor. The witnesses were all lying. The man just faked it.
I get all that!!!
I simply presented "compelling evidence" for the power of God. What am I actually saying??
If God were truly God, could He, or could He NOT bring a dead person back to life?
Sorry to disappoint you, but this is not the first and only case in human history. The dead have been raised to life all over the place and all over history.
But, I guess if you don't SEE it with your own eyes, it MUST be fake!
Ever seen the alien autopsies? They were fakes by amateurs and the result was amateurish and somehow totally believable to many many people, yet it was totally faked.
Oddly, claims of the dead being raised have been made by most religions at some point, are they all right then? God has many names and love playing us against each other so that we go to war in his name, both sides! Or is it just possible that people like fame? They like renown? They like power? They like being listened to and believed? That some people simply like messing with people? That some people want followers? That some people will stoop to anything to get a little attention? That some people use belief and religion as tools for gaining power over others? That people can be shits and liars?
Probably God tho, that guy is obviously more important and in God's graces more then the millions of children who have died of starvation, religious wars, and the diseases God made for us over the history of humanity
unlike the rest I believe everything has happened just as shown and narrated in the video.knowing the christian mindset... I would not doubt any of it at all.
But that will not lead me to believe in the god of christianity...
In fact it gives strenght to the fact that christianity are workers of iniquity...
This is because Christianity seek to teach about god through ignorance or a false knowledge...their faith is based on ignorance....or simply believe in believing.
this ind of deception is worst than the voodoo or black magic workers whose name implies their work those involve knows it ...unlike christianity they pompously suppposing to speak for God..
Normally, once someone begins to perform CPR on someone who isn't breathing, one of the first things they do is have someone else contact an ambulance to take the patient to the hospital.
Instead, they announce him "clinically dead" and move him to a bed somewhere. Huh? What's up with that?
Usually, when someone dies, their bodies muscles all relax, hence they usually soil themselves. The man's pants were dry and no excrement was released. Very odd, indeed.
The ambulance scenario might work where there is one. Do you know for a fact there s one wherever this happened?
Are we in the west the only ones who are qualified to recognise the dead as dead? (clinically or otherwise). I suggest to you, that maybe these people are MORE familiar with death than we. When was the last time you, or any average westerner, saw a dead body?
Thirdly, about faecal matter, I notice you mention usually, meaning you already allow for it not to be present. Usually does NOT mean always. I know for a fact it doesn't!
I'll have to find a topic just for you, so you can agree with me, so I can get some positive responses from you.
It would appear by the surroundings in the video they have all the modern conveniences around them, it would make sense they also have hospitals and ambulances.
Of course, you don't know for a fact the entire thing wasn't staged and the video is just a charade.
Strawman fallacy. Yes, I have seen dead bodies and have watched people die in front of me while I was attempting to save their lives. No one can state as fact that the man was clinically dead or otherwise by just watching the video.
Good for you. It wasn't present on the man in the video, giving more evidence to the possibility the whole thing was staged or he wasn't dead at all.
he still looks half dead at end.
I recall a news report about a woman that had been in the morgue for few days, that spurted blood when cut to prepare for burial. The spurting meant that she had actually still been alive, and the undertaker actually finished her off.
So people can 'seem' dead, but aren't
I just had a pint with God after work this evening.
He told me he was making his first attempts with video directing.
And he was very much amused with the way all these poor souls reacted.
Looks to me like he was woken up, not raised from the dead.
Jesus raised several people from the dead, that He referred to as being "asleep".
Death is often likened to sleep.
not just jesus ...most religious head did as per belief systems...jesus is not singular one, there are many and one can't choose one story and reject others...believe all stories or reject all ..because all are without proofs...
telling children that their pet has 'gone to sleep' is likely to frighten them about sleep, once they realise the pet isn't coming back.
There are legends of resurrection in the bible - there are stories, that is all
But death is NOT sleep and sleeping is not death.
Waking someone up can sometimes be hard. Raising the dead is always impossible.
Yes, and Perseus went to the Gorgons lair and cut off the head of Medusa. True story.
Good thing he did, too. You wouldn't want THAT thing prowling your neighborhood!
Yet this same God cannot feed the starving, DYING children right around the corner. This is not impressive. What a nonsenseical, blind worldview.
Hi getitrite. I think it's past the time to put that nonsensical argument to rest. Don't you?
Too funny. I just wonder when they will stop attempting to bait, and allow some semblance of a serious dialogue.
Raising a dead man to life is not a serious issue for you?
I bet if he were your father, brother, or close friend, your attitude might change.
BTW, did you actually watch all the clip?
I did see the clip. Taken at face value only, it would be evidence. I don't disagree with you that miracles are possible. I am simply saying that, it has been my observation, these are never manifested in such a way that they can be proven. A video of this type is not going to be seen as proof.
Faith is what sustains us. That has been the way for several centuries. I do understand the difficulty many have with our beliefs.
I see you as a good person, inasmuch as you appear to take this video as fact. I am simply a doubting Thomas on this one.
That's fine with me. I notice you also used the word "proof".
I did not offer this as proof, merely as evidence for God's power.
The problem with taking this (or any other) clip at face value is simply TRUST.
If you trust the ones who made it, and therefore accept it as genuine, you will also accept it's content (and therefore it's message).
If not, then the reverse is true. You, on the other hand demonstrate a response somewhere in the middle. IE, It could be genuine, or it could be fake. The question you need to ask is, what do these people have to gain by faking it?
This, again, displays you as a good person. I apologize if I have, in any way, raised your dander on this.
I believe it is obvious what they might stand to gain, both ways.
I would love to see someone provide compelling evidence. This clip just left too much room for question.
I do apologize for expressing an posing opinion on this.
Actually no, it is the best and most valid argument I have ever heard for not believing in God.
I would rather Jesus died on that cross for food for starving children for all time and let me have my sins! I will happily risk hell if it means no more staving children in this world.
And guess what, I do believe in God. I just believe that dismissing arguments of atheists is down right disrespectful because they have very valid points, otherwise they would take the easy rout and believe in God. Then we could all slap each other on the back and say 'right on man, ain't God great' instead of arguing.
You are obviously a good person, as is aka. Had God asked my opinion, and given me that option, I would have chosen it too. Unfortunately, it was not a conversation that was had.
I don't know if you have noticed, but when that line is used by an atheist it is not an opening to a meaningful dialogue. If your experience has been different, then you are truly blessed.
I have to say that for the most part, neither side seem all that open to real meaningful dialogue. The atheist is primed to defend their right to not believe in god as is the religious person primed to defend their belief. No one wants to change their belief but want to change that of others, so there is no real dialog possible. I have watched it on both sides for years, both sides are as bad as each other and cannot see it! The crux of the problem is the desire to change what another believes, either to save their soul or minimize the risks that religious extremists pose (wouldn't happen if people did not take religion quite so seriously me thinks).
The online world is a strange place, people seem to talk to each other very differently then real life. For all I know you are an atheist and Mark is a bible thumping preacher and you both are just bored!
In the end I have come to one simple conclusion, there is only one thing in this world I can really change to any controlled effect. The only thing I can change, to make it how I want it, is me. For this reason I don't 'do' religion. I actually have no respect for any religion, but I have heaps of respect for many religious people I have met. Christian, Muslim, Jew, Atheist, I have met some amazing and good people from all walks of life. I have also met some downright evil people from Christianity, know that there are evil Atheists, Muslims and Jews (never met one tho). I guess if I had not met so many evil christians and had a more ballanced experience set I would not consider the religion a tool of evil. but thats just me
It's not a nonsensical argument at all. And just because you believers have persistently used abject dishonesty(when explaining this disparity away) doesn't make the 5 ton elephant in the room go away. But good try.
It was only put to rest because you believers just could not be honest, no matter how many times we gave you the chance to come clean, you just kept repeating the same insane lie.
Yeah, this issue has been put to bed FOR YOU, because you are delusional enough to think that somehow your side has thoroughly and TRUTHFULLY defended itself, BUT all you have done is LIED, LIED, LIED, and more LIES.
Actually, repeating oneself over and over and over and over is your game. I get it. You see where someone else has used an argument that worked at one moment and it gets stuck in your head. I'm neurotic like that with some things myself.
But that does not change the fact that it is a ridiculous argument against belief and devotion to God.
If you truly believed in the disbelief you espouse, you would attempt a more studied approach. That's all I see. I don't see a disbelief in God, simply a distaste for those who believe.
No one wants to be distasteful.
That would be the distinction between ones personal feelings and the ideologies they embrace. It would appear that you have yet to make that distinction.
ok.you're special. I had decided I wasn't going to reply to any more posts this morning. Your buddies have been picking on me unmercifully. But you usually have something intelligent to say. Could you explain to me what the heck you're trying to point out?
They aren't picking on you personally, they are picking on your ideologies, please try to distinguish between your personal beliefs and you yourself.
Hey, this may come as a surprise to you, but I don't know anyone on this site. Not sure they have any idea what my ideologies are. I think I have attempted to be open and honest, and polite, for the most part, when in disagreement.
It simply seems to me that somebody passed out a handbook to some and they're reading from a script. I would find that tedious, if it was me. Sorry, I don't mind a difference of opinion, but there are some posts that get repetitive. Not sure what that has to do with ideology.
Religions are ideologies. People will have an idea of your ideology when you expose your religious beliefs to them.
Is this a religious belief to want diversity on dialogue?
No, it is an explanation of clarity that religions are ideologies, by definition.
This is your answer?
Let me get this straight; you are saying that a desire for diversity is a religious thing? That this is not a need of all people?
I just want to be clear on this. So I can mull it over.
What part of, "No, it is an explanation of clarity that religions are ideologies, by definition" are you having trouble understanding?
None. I understand that completely, although it wasn't an answer to the original question, or an answer to the problem. I understand your need to redirect. I simply hope you don't think what just happened here was lost on anyone.
Ph, and keep in mind my response was to get it rite's posts. Not a general statement about atheists. I think that's important to remember.
No you DON'T get it. You are creating an argument from nothing I have said, but from your miscomprehension of my comment. Try to take your anger out of the equation.
At a moment??? This argument totally destroys your delusion. Again, you just can't be honest to accept the truth.
This is hardcore delusion. This argument totally destroys the premise that your God is all powerful, omnscient, or even exists--therefore making your belief and devotion only a delusion.
You say it is ridiculous, only becasue you wish this argument would go away so you can remain ensconsed in your nonsense.
This is complete nonsensical drivel.
just_curious, I have no reason to have a distaste for you, or anyone else, based upon what you believe...and I don't understand why you would be led to believe that.
I'm sure you are a decent person. Believe me, my only problem is with religious belief---which I actually see you as a victim. It is sad how we have been pitted against each other, because of the indoctrination we received as children.
Don't take it so personally, when I'm questioning your beliefs. You are not these beliefs. And I'm now aware that you are not capable of taking a leap into what atheist view as reality.
Well, as far as leaping, it goes both ways getitrite. But I find the rest of your post requires no reflection.
I do give you kudos on the way you posted though. Very polite in your disagreement.
This does not, in any way, imply that I am not curious as to how beelzedad will respond to the question at hand.
Hey getitrite I hope you will accept my apology. I think I did overreact to you, because of the rest of the posts I was dealing with this morning.
I realize that just because I consider some arguments against belief ridiculous, you may feel that way about my reasons to believe.
I hope we can disagree this civilly in future conversations.
Again, please accept my apology.
Although it does not help me when, I'm going through a crisis, to believe that a God will make everything ok--I understand how some people are helped by this belief.
I understand that it makes no difference whether you defend your beliefs, rationally or not. The point is to JUST believe, because it feels more comforting than not believing...because life is scary.
Good grief! How funny that you base your faith on this sort of thing. Sad too.
I am sorry aka, but I have to side with the nay sayers on this one. I am not saying that it is outside of the power of God to do this, but there is nothing in that video that would lead me to conclude a man was truly raised from the dead.
I doubt we will see a miracle that proves the God of all, until the end is near. I'm sure there will be plenty then; since I have no doubt that God, in His mercy, will open the eyes of those good people who have found it difficult to believe.
What seems far more likely is that the same as has always happened will continue to happen.
All right-enough is enough. If you read my hubs, you will know how I stand on this subject. I have left these forum posts alone, but this one takes the cake.
Are you so called atheists a bunch of animals? A person has say a dream and they share it with others. Why are you a "pack of wolves" attacking his/her dream?
Their statements are hurting no one. If you want to start a thread with your beliefs, fine; but the attacks are very childish and show a very low level of intelligence in my opinion.
Go ahead and attack me--I ain't listening.
You just give me the thoughts of a bunch of bullies in 3rd grade.
did jesus get promotion?..on serious notes there have been lots of cases like this all across the world..name changes from jesus to their own version...may be convinced brain tries one last time and it works...because deity has not been common in such cases...it has been variety...but such cases have been...brain is similar , so that is common factor...
A few tried to refute it.
A few tried to discredit it.
A few agree with it.
NO-ONE has explained it. (outside of God having the power to do it)
It seems this challenge is in the too hard basket. (again)
@aka-dj it is age old phenomena of giving credit to some one who can never be seen , for something which science cannot answer right now...it was like thunder is god's warning concept...thunder god was replaced by current version , which in turn would get replaced for others in future.....religion and god theme too keeps evolving...i am sure people would laugh at current god concepts 5k years down the line...like many do for god's of 3k years before...
Interesting intellectual conumdrum you offer. First, you take any old video on YouTube and present it here for all to comment with the expectation that we are to come up with a solution based on what is presented in the video.
That's like asking us to explain how it is the Millenium Falcon can reach faster than light speeds based on watching the movie.
Yet for some reason the term, "Zombie Jesus Day" in reference to Easter offends people. This stumps me. I can see no possible reason in this well thought out phrasing how it could possibly offend someone.
You know, as nasty as I can be to theists, I wouldn't go this far. I'll use phrases like that in the company of other atheists, but I just can't go to that degree of disrespect when communicating with a Christian theist.
I guess it's because it is just disrespect. It doesn't have any redeeming purpose, no attempt to educate, to get anyone's mind working. It just insults only for the sake of ridicule.
If this were a purely atheist forum, with no Christians reading, I'd mention some other things of a similar nature. But it is not, so I won't.
I bet that surprises more than a few people
Raised from the dead...please explain
Nobody could be raised from the real dead; from the near-dead who are not physically , medically and in reality dead; yes one could be enlivened. This happened in the case of Jesus who never died physically and medically on the Cross; he got enlivened by treatment in the tomb he was laid.
Jesus did not raise anybody from the real dead; he had no such power; he was not a god or son of god.
well dont know about jesus but u did raise this discussion back ...
Where have you been!?!?
Were YOU raised from the dead??
by Mark 9 years ago
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