Just wondering who has the higher tendency to lie and manipulate people about their beliefs, is it the atheists or religious people?
Maybe you should change the word 'religious' to 'believers" because, as you can see, some people are already trying to manipulate. This doesn't look good already.
To qualify as a liar, one has to know what they are saying is not true, or incorrect.
Sadly, your question is out of place because both sides fully believe that what they are saying is true, and therefore they are not lying.
The only way that this can be changed is if the truth were revealed, and the lie exposed.
Still, it makes for lively discussion.
To pester people to follow your religion is bad enough, but to oppose it with atheist logic is equally bad. Best to keep your beliefs to yourself.
HA! Well my vote is for religious people.
At least as far as what I have come across, Atheists are realists, and you can't really lie about that.
I have seen religion do some bad bad things to people, all in the name of God.
Way to ahve the balls to post this!
I don't like trouble, I do however like to listen to opinions from both sides.
Well, the way to go about it civilly sure isn't by posting the presupposition that people are liars and manipulators! LOL
(even though some are, fer shure).
Beyond that, I'm staying out of this debate, 'cause I am neither atheist nor religious (I'm simply a Christian; you might want to take into account that fact, that not all Christians are "religious").
So good luck; hope you have fun.
Hey Brenda, are you trying to re-write the term "religious", so as to exclude yourself?
You have a belief in a god. It's called a religion. Therefore, you are religious.
It's funny how you try to separate yourself from organized religion, by claiming to be a simple Christian. Being a Christian is a religious action.
I have a belief in the one true God, yes.
There is a distinction between that and "religion" including the religions of Islam, Buddhism, etc., and also between the religion of ritualistic worship/works. In some cases, it's a distinction between Christianity and Christian-based religions, even. Catholicism, while being based on Christianity, has such a surrounding basis of works-based ritual that it's become almost a separate thing from from simple Christianity. And since it's so often touted as the main (and sometimes only) source of true "religion", I think it's necessary to clearly state the distinction between the two.
I will say this----within the framework of Catholicism, there IS one thing the Catholic Church does well----it, as a whole, does good work for the poor, widowed, and fatherless, in the vein which the Bible describes what pure religion is! However, the Bible also tells us that just being religious isn't what Christ wants us to do, and the Catholic Church has such a prideful stance against simple Christianity, that it detracts from its purity of doctrine. And simple Christianity also practices that "pure religion" of helping the poor and otherwise needy people. Without, usually, all the trappings and ego of the Catholic Church.
No, I'm not trying to re-write the term "religious", because my view is consistent with Jesus's definition of it. The Bible expounds to us the difference between religion and pure Faith. The Jews had "religion"! They tried to follow the Old Testament rules about animal sacrifice and literal punishment for breaking every Law, etc. It was ritual. And Jesus told 'em that Faith is a heart matter too. It's about Love.
So, while I could have just ignored the simple question of the original post, in reality it isn't that simple after all. Just wanted to point that out. I for one don't think I should just sit back while my Faith is lumped-in with all "religions", whether they be Islam or whatever, or even Catholicism.
Brenda I'm sorry, but what? You can't be serious. You attack every other faith system, pretty much every one in christianity but your personal belief. Then claim yours is not a religion? I'd get ready..they're going to hit you hard for that. And rightly so. You might have just won the prize on this thread.
I'm used to winning that prize in the minds of many people. Let the chips fall where they may. And I'm also used to people saying something is "an attack" when actually it's a very clear explanation of what religion is and what it is not. What amazes me is that so many people, including you, seem to prefer to keep your heads in the sand and refuse to see things for what they are.
Well, gee Brenda. I've got a perfectly good response for that; but I still don't get the rules here. Not wanting to be banned, I'll let you use your imagination ass to where I think your head might be. But I will say that the type of post that started this exchange is typical of the hypocritical holier than thou bs that tends to get my goat. I had no idea, before I came into these forums how bizarrely prejudiced and backwoods christian philosophy had become. So thank you. You helped open my eyes.
I am glad to know I am not the only one who sees this sort of contradiction and hypocrisy
Sometimes I wonder if I would have an easier time dealing with people in general if I hit my just as hard as I could in order that I lower my IQ enough so that I don't notice stuff like this
Regardless of what you claim and/or your explanation in your previous post, it still does not negate that religion is about 'god'. It is irrelevant that you follow Jesus' teachings, because his teachings were distorted as they were entered into the bible you follow so closely.
Apparently, you rather not research what you believe, because just maybe your belief would be in jeopardy. As would your faith, especially, in yourself.
No ,non-believers tend to stereotype all people who believe in God as 'Religious'
Jesus made a definate distinction bewteen believers and religious people!
Cags,Im suprised you dont know the difference.
I'm sure that's the real reason why you want to avoid this thread.
"is it the atheists or religious people?". I say both the same, will lie equally. Called 'lying for the cause'. It is OK to lie to people to get them to quit smoking. It's for their own good. Lying for their own good would seem applicable to both.
Hey topgunjager. I'm ready to vote. It's a draw. They're all ready to come up with whoppers to justify their stand. I don't agree with the statement someone else made here that it's ok to lie if you think it's for the other person's good. That's insulting to the intelligence of the other person.
@ts i dont think religious people lie...they speak what they believe as truth...it cannot classify as lie ...
Not to point out the obvious; but I haven't noticed God posting on the forum. I would be inclined to take his posts as gospel, were he to choose to share his thoughts on this matter. Don't be upset Sir Dent. Just having some fun.
What does either side have to gain by lying? Religious people can gain more sheep for the flock, and maybe convince themselves of the lies the tell as truths. Atheist, cannot speak for them all but myself and the acquaintances I know seek the truth. So lies would belittle their morals.
All of us lie,part of being human.Religion is a lie in its self and atheists lie to themselves?Not the lie that is important,however BIG it may be.The TRUTH is what counts.
And just how is it that atheist lie to themselves?
I can only speak for myself,a past atheist who lied to my self about to many things to list.:)The one that now amuses me the MOST is I used to believe that I was superior to THOSE who believed in God. : )
Hi glowingrocks, Very interesting. There are some atheists in the forums who feel they are superior to the believers of God. What caused you to start believing that God exist?
I realized I was a sinner and asked for forgiveness.That is when I became aware that GOD does exist.before that time I always compared myself with others believing I was not so bad or not a sinner.
Wow, You have shared a lot in just a few words. It seems like you came to a place of humility before you were able to repent and recieve Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior. Denial can keep one away from God, but you found your way to the right path. Praise God
Now you prefer to lie, by imposing intellectual dishonesty upon yourself. That's not logical at all.
You're right you are speaking ONLY for yourself. I don't think I'm better than believers. I was a believer once, and I know that they are victims of their indoctrination, just like I was.
Your problem is something other than your former atheism. It sounds like an ego issue to me. Maybe you believe you are superior to atheist now.
So, again, how are atheist, beside you, lying to themselves?
I prefer Truth now.Do you like the truth?I believe humans are all equal.
Thanks for totally evading the question. Of course when one has nothing but wishful thinking to validate their assertions, only nonsense follows.
More nonsensical irrelevant jibberish
Did you ever think of actually answering the question that I asked you, or is it that you just can't help yourself?
How are atheist lying to themselves?
Agreed, We are the all equal in the eyes of God.
An interesting post of which I found especially so from your opening line. Is lying really a part of being human? Is it so easily acknowledged as such that we can take it for granted as if it were any other common part of being human?
For as much as I try to imagine, I cannot imagine a scenario in which lying could not have been avoided entirely. Telling the truth or not saying anything at all can be the answer to almost anything. And I say 'almost' because I'm sure I've not imagined all scenarios...
Can you offer some examples that would demand one openly lied about someone or something?
Of course, the lie has to work in order for it to be successful.
That's odd behavior for an atheist. While I would suspect that ones illumination of developing their own logical and rational conclusions as to why they acknowledge themselves as atheists is tantamount to any traumatic life changing event that it would warrant every capacity one could muster to be honest with themselves.
Atheists need facts and evidence in order to support their positions on how our world works and why they cannot accept the beliefs of theists regarding the supernatural.
For an atheist to think and believe he is lying to himself in making his decisions to be an atheist, he would be severing the very foundation of his capacity to use the same critical thinking skills that lead him to question religious beliefs in the first place.
As far as considering oneself superior to a god, we can turn to any number of biblical quotations and find ample reason why we as humans would never behave in that manner.
If not worship, I would at the very least respect highly a god that showed all the compassion and understanding we as humans were able to show and not the wrath for which he is feared.
Again, very odd behavior for an atheist. How does one suddenly realize they are a sinner if sins is not a concept an atheist could accept as morally and ethically consistent, even when compared with their own, for example?
What sins of the bible did you suddenly become aware that you were engaging freely and willingly?
Notice that you said that you "prefer Truth now" implying that your decision of your so-called conversion to theism has more to do with what you want as opposed to what your god wants from you.
If an atheist were to turn to religion and begin believing that a god does in fact exist, he would either be lying or he would indeed have met god himself. And, even at that, he would still not be able to support his argument unless he had evidence that he did indeed meet a god.
And, if such evidence were required to convince all mankind a god does in fact exist, then every single person on the planet would have had to have met him too, in order to satisfy his decision to become a theist.
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