Messenger Prophets like Noah, Jonah, Jesus had a Message from the Creator-God for the mankind. If they have been in our times; what methods they would have adopted so that the Message reaches to every person of the world.
Jesus moved in different localities and villages; and in those times; people were not usually locked in their houses; they enjoyed listening to others frankly. People in those times did appreciate if somebody visited them; even the strangers, and they even entertained them with food and water etc, if needed.
I don't think there is any harm in going door to door to meet the people in a courteous way; giving just one bell, waiting for the inhabitants to come or else leaving the message at the door, so that the occupants picks it at their convenience.
Is it against the Law?
No, it isn't against the law, but it is against having respect for others, which is something you don't appear to have.
How is it against the respect of a person? Just giving one bell and leaving the message does not show any disrespect.
In Elections, it is done and nobody feels bad about it.
I agree with ya on that.
A lot of people in different churches drop off flyers inviting people to church, or pamphlets about salvation. I see nothing wrong with that.
But of course I don't like the flyers from the Jehovah's Witnesses group, etc. I read a few of those long ago, and listened to a few of 'em who visited, but when they wanted to push their religion and tell me my Faith was wrong, I stopped letting them talk to me.
And I would send Islamists away too. Or else preach to them.
JW's overdo it I agree; but I don't have any problem with them. I can tell them where they are wrong as I could tell to an atheist or a catholic or a protestant; I don't have any problem with any of them.
Brenda, Agreed. Some Jehovah Witnesses, not all, are very good at trying to make someone believe in their religion. Everyone has a right to choose what they want to believe.
Yes, it does, because your only interest in ringing that bell and leaving a message is to convert someone to Islam. In other words, the only benefit you are getting is self-serving.
Nonsense. Their interests are self-serving as well as they are doing so only for their own benefit.
Hence, politics are just another bad religion, following a very bad pattern.
Yelling at your neighbors, picketing like the Westboros, and so many other things ARE disrespectful to others. It's saying they are not intelligent and incapable of distinguishing who they are internally, and making effective decisions about their lives. Peddling beliefs, politics and other such things is about control and manipulating people's decisions for their own lives.
Those who are truly in search of truth find it within first. From there, there seems to be no need to shout and cajole others about it, because from within, these people know that others will arrive at truth for themselves WHEN THEY ARE READY.
I agree with you there.
I know how it feels when someone trys to badger ,or ridicule their ideas down my throat, so no way to I do that to anyone.
If nothing else its rude and immature.
Besides God does the choosing-not me.
On the other hand if its a question or discussion thats quite different. (IMO)
Conversations among friends in a friendly climate that naturally goes to such a subject is universally different than "peddling."
Mostly, though, we are talking about uninvited, invasive types of pushing.
Who are the Westboros? I am not introduced to them.
The door to one's house, or the end of his phone, or his email in box, should not be viewed as a handy conduit to sell or promote something.
If the recipient is able to search for answers to questions they might have (or products they might need) on their own in this modern age of communication, then they should not be harassed by someone's message.. whether that message be a commercial or a religious one.
In other words, get the F@#%@!% off my lawn
I agree with you there Greek one,though Id probably tone down the last statement atad.
So, the atheists promote isolation instead of being social; isn't it weird with them?
Rather we promote privacy when we want it. Everyone needs to have some alone time sometimes.
Nobody goes inside the house; just a single bell on the door; then to wait for five minutes; if somebody comes out give him the flyer if the refused to take one then don't give one. If nobody comes out; just leave the flyer on the door and return.
The privacy is maintained yet a social call has been made.
I think it is reasonable and not against the law.
Actually, a social call would be not be one in which the sole intent and purpose was to evangelize a religion.
But, I can understand why you would defend those folks, as they too denounce other religions in order to support their own.
Yes, I would suspect you would find degrading other religions reasonable and you're free to do so and be thankful it isn't against the law.
Funny though, Muslims don't offer the same "reasonable" freedoms when it comes to others criticizing their religion.
Isn't that a double standard?
It is not necessary to evangelize a specific religion; the occupant should be given a right to present his own religion; this will promote inter-faith dialogue at grass root level and will also promote understanding between the human beings; like we do here.
Believers have no understanding of the human species. They only think they do, because they have a book that tells them what makes them feel good about themselves, so they think they know what is best for everyone else.
Keep your religion to yourself and out of other people's life and you will find that the world would be much more peaceful.
Paar, that's a really bad idea. The reason people talk here is because talking religion is not something most of us want to do in the real world. I, for one, am sick of the evangelical types pushing their faith. That's what a door knocker does. Interest in someone else's religion doesn't send anyone knocking. They're looking for converts.
I don't agree with you.
This is lawful and it could in a locality of say 3 x 3 kilometers, prepare the occupants to have an interfaith dialogue in some nearby school hall on Saturday/Sunday presided by a notable citizen or local official of the area.
Religion has deep interests in the society; many people would come to participate and listen.
Anyone has the right to present their own religion, but they also have the right to do so when they choose and not when you decide they should. That is not a right granted to you.
Is that really what you believe you do here? I've observed you creating thread after thread denouncing Christianity to support your beliefs in Islam, attacking atheism, science and non-believers with over-indulgent zealotry .
How does that promote inter-faith dialogue and promote understanding between human beings?
How would you expect people to react when you bring that brand of intolerance into their homes?
If they come to my door, then they are bothering me too.
I don't care even if they are promoting something I'm 100% in favor of... don't call me, I'll call you.
I might be sleeping.. my kids might be sleeping.. i might be in the middle of dinner.. my wife might be telling me off for not taking out the garbage... or i just might not be in the mood to talk to anyone.
In this day and age, if i want to find answers to certain questions... i have the means to do so without the 'answers' coming to my door
It is not illegal to go door to door, but it is called soliciting and people are offended by the intrusion. If you would like to share the message of your creator god, the best way, in my opinion, is to live an exemplary life showing the value of the teachings. If people are interested they will ask. If you are inclined, you can answer. But from my experience with the door to door evangelicals, the best and shortest way to be done with their bizarre take on things is not to open the door to begin with.
By knocking on my door, you are saying that I need salvation. God sent you to save me. By your JUDGEMENT I am a sinner. WELL? Who are you to judge me? Maybe you need me knocking on your door? I post a sign. "If you aren't invited, you are trespassing."
I don't agree with you.
My intention is to hold an inter-faith dialogue in every locality of 3x3 KM; where an oppurtunity is afforded to all the occupants of the area, who opt for it, to find the truth where-ever it is.
It is rather helping and facilitating them.
Nevermind if it started with a flyer from my own religion; followers of others faith could join likewes in distributing flyers of them and asking people to attend the symposium.
No...you can't do it! Beezledad does not approve!
Its all about the presentation...and the message, my friend!
I once had a Jehovah's Witness knock on my door at 8:30 am on a Sunday morn...after I had just worked a long night shift...and asked me if I spoke Spanish ??? Go Figure...how I wasn't that receptive to his little rap on my door.
I believe your Actions...and that a person's willingness to hear what you have to say...go hand and hand!
Remember: The multitudes flocked to hear Jesus...You never hear of him chasing down anyone...door-to-door. It was all according to spiritual timing and a person's heart...IMHO!
The time could be set at about 11.00 AM; is that OK.
Not for you, buddy...I have already heard some of your schpeel...and I ain't buyin' it! Move Along...though...Next?!
Jesus moved from village to village; he could not go door to door alongwith the mobs. The village houses in asia sometimes don't have a door or a gate at the entrance.
Very interesting...paarsurrey...and mostly common knowledge. Your point is?
Always got to get the last word in...don'cha?
Funny how some people don't see how telling other people what to believe and how to live is disrespectful.....
Humans beings are social; they must be social to meet one another; why hate to meet a human being? I think it would be disrespectful if not inhuman.
Then, by your own words, you are disrespectful and inhuman as you do not show any social attributes whatsoever as you litter these forums with Islamic propaganda and do not answer questions posed to you.
There are other things for people to do, socially speaking, then spreading a system of belief created for the sole purpose of controlling others (ie, religion). If you personally are incapable of socialising without preaching and attempting to control others then to stay respectful of others you should probably isolate yourself totally and completely this very minute. If you can actually allow people to be who they are then you can back off with the religion and spend some time getting to know them first before trying to convert them to your particular brand of control, er I mean religion.
Umm....trying to get someone to believe the wrong thing is hugely disrespectful. But trying to get them to see Truth is a different matter, unless ya go to their homes and force yourself in the door. The basics of what's right and wrong still stand, those haven't fallen to political correctness yet.
edit---this was in response to kirstenblog's post.
But - you believe nonsense and are always trying to get others to believe the same nonsense you do.
Odd that you do not understand this. Perhaps now you will stop sharing your hate mongering.
Perhaps you should lift the needle off that record you keep spinning, 'cause it's broken broken broken...
As opposed to your "message" which is different every time?
This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.
Stop spreading nonsense - I stop telling you it is nonsense.
No deal. I haven't come to your door knocking. It is the Christ who's doing that. He offers you a deal if you invite Him in. The sweetest deal in the world. One you shouldn't refuse.
But you are lying and have no Truth.
Oh well - Kausing Konflict For Satan is wot u r all about i Guess.
This would be why your religion causes so many conflicts.
"Aesop and the Villagers have told the Shepherd Boy's story wrong.
The Wolf really was there, lurking, in the shadows, all along."
See? I can use my tagline too.
You go girl
Suns out ,think I might take a lil walk.
Maybe when I get back Beezel and Mark might have started their own thread,instead of causing confict again on Christian ones
I think they get bored without us.
Have fun on your walk!
No. It would be awesome if you did wot your majik book told you to do.
Kiwi, Enjoy your walk. I have completed my walk for today.
Really? I thought your majik book told you not do do this.
Silly me. I have actually read it of course.
So - you won't let him just get on with it huh?
You don't trust him enough to leave the work to him?
Jesus is not capable of speaking to me himself.
You need to spread the word because you have no faith in the Power of the Lord.
You are not standing in Awe of God's Power.
You do not trust Jesus.
You feel you are qualified to speak for him and I won't notice unless you warn me the shark is going to eat me?
Sadly - this is why your religion causes so many conflicts.
I wonder how many people "come to jesus" without the carrot and the stick sales pitch from the unpaid sheeple?
I am going with ZERO.
But that is the point Brenda, it is my fervent belief that religion, all religions, are at heart complete evil, that they are vile and disgusting insults to any being that might be called a God. That the truth is, religion is an institution of man, created to control mass populations. According to my view you are doing wrong by spreading something wrong, and evil. In my eyes you are doing the devils work, while preforming certain oral acts on him. Religion is in my belief the tool of the devil or whatever evils forces you are happy to call the devil. This is the truth as I see it, do you want me posting thread after thread about how evil this or that religion is? with links to story after story of child molestation or other forms of brutality cause there are more such stories out there then I could ever post if it was all I ever did, because religion is an evil tool of the devil as I have already stated, anything that gives power to small groups of people like priests is evil because power corrupts.
You can believe whatever you want. I take pretty big exception to one of those phrases you've posted here, but will only say that you've attributed the wrong thing to the wrong people.
I do agree that power corrupts, at least usually; power given to man, anyway.
There are plenty of threads that are not religious. Matter of fact, plenty of them that are outright anti-religious, even anti-Christ.
There's corruption and evil in the world, period, not just in religions. Religions should, however, hold themselves to higher standards. But what can I say, man is fallen and in need of the Savior. Some people accept Him, and some don't.
They should, sure, but they don't. I have never once seen or heard of a story of a religion holding themselves to anything but self serving standards. Take the westboro baptists, its not other baptists I see crying out at the wrong these people are doing, its the anti-religious who do that job, and it always is. Stop spreading your religion until such time as it can be shown to police itself to perfection, so that there will never be another pedo priest or scam artist preacher with bigger pockets then morals.
If the world doesnt judge them ,rest assured God will. In fact He says Woe to them ,who should know better ,but do not do it.
Woe to them who use His name in vain,thats an awful lot of churches and well known churchy people.
All who call me Lord will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven ,in fact God says He doesnt even regonise their voice?
No Justice will be done -for everyone
First of all, I'm not a follower of priests, nor any specific denomination nor their Pastors, nor the scammers, etc.
And no person nor any religion is perfect. Yes, some are radical and very imperfect, like the Westboros. I do speak out about that at different times. But if you're waiting around for even the true Church to become perfect, you'll be waiting a long long time. Because nobody's perfect.
If as you said it's non-believers who are trying to "police" the actions of groups like the Westboros, then each side has lost from the get-go, because both sides are wrong.
What I'm a part of is the body of Christ, made up of all true Believers in the whole world. We don't all know each other and we don't have one specific church building or conference or whatever to congregate in. We're simply imperfect people who Love a perfect God.
No church but a perfect one will ever earn my respect, if there is a perfect God then only a perfect church will do as an institution to build around this perfect God concept. This is the first post of yours that has given me any inkling that under all the religious sounding rhetoric you might actually be slightly spiritual, to bad you don't speak from a spiritual place and rather use the language of religion and subsequently control because in real life I can just about imagine having an interesting conversation with you about the nature of things, like nature
We might even be able to agree on basic concepts of right and wrong without the religious language getting in the way. As someone who does not think God gives a toss what I believe and might (or might not) have a passing interest in what I do I still believe that trying to be a good person by constantly critically thinking about every choice to discover what impact you will have is the way to go. Humanity will not survive otherwise and no God is needed to understand that by having a destructive impact on the lives of others puts humanity itself at ever so slightly greater risk of destroying itself. When I hear someone say that religion and God are wrong what I see is someone who has seen the history of destruction caused by religion trying to take a stand and do something to stop something with such potential to create human suffering and worse. I may believe in a god concept but I have more respect for the angry atheist because I see someone trying to do a good thing for the world whereas I see a religious person spouting religious slogans I see someone who isn't thinking cause it's easier to let religion do it for them.
I'm not understanding some of what you mean. But it would be nice, yes, to be able to talk. But....if by "spiritual" you mean that I might be open to ideas that leave out the Bible, then no I can't do that. I don't like "religion" in general, no. But there are those basics that are part of my Faith, the Bible's words being one of them.
And humanity isn't going to survive forever anyway. Yes, I believe in preserving life of course, for future generations, even, if possible. But the most important concern is eternity.
Do you really believe the "angry atheist" is unselfishly trying to preserve life? Maybe some are.....but again, don't they look at just literal life? when in fact there is a thing within each person that points toward a spirit, a soul, that lives on in one of two capacities.
No, there isn't. No one has ever shown that "thing" whatever that "thing" is supposed to be. Sorry.
So, you don't have a "spirit" inside you, a soul? Is all that you are just a tangible body? Your mind is intangible, yet you do know you have one. Why is it hard to consider a soul?
It's a circular argument that's been hashed over and over already.
Incontrovertible evidence would solve the problem, but what you accept as such evidence and what scientific types accept would be at odds.
Hence, as always brought up before, it's as difficult for you to prove there is, as it would be for others to prove there is not, in most cases. Opinions never shift in such discussions, so there's no point to having it.
None of us do, Brenda. Welcome to reality.
It's easy to "consider" a soul. It's just entirely impossible to show that one exists. Hence, where would one get the notion that they do exist?
Yes, really. Like I told you before- humans don't actually have a "soul" or "spirit"- those words are only descriptive for people's individual actions.
No one does.
It's nothing to do with the individual. We are ALL human beings.
Brenda, the brain is a tangible thing. The "mind" is just word to describe the capacity of the brain, such as usage.
It's fairly easy to "consider". It's just as easy to to dismiss the thought too, because knowledge available says neither soul or spirit, actually exists.
Two sacks of chemical reactions interacting!
I love it.
What a powerful meaning/purpose to life!
The power in meaning and purpose of life is in oneself, bestowing meaning and purpose on one's life.
Sorry, no higher authority required to do that.
You added the "higher authority" bit.
Without soul/spirit, you cannot define consciousness any better than I did.
We are merely sacks of chemical reactions that happen to fire in some form of sequence that gives us our definition of LIFE. Merely a concept.
Yet, we get outraged when one such "sack" terminates the chemical reactions of another. Why would that be?
No higher authority implied!
Not true. Simply because "consciousness" is derived from the brain itself. It's an innate ability of humans to recognize themselves, the thoughts in their head and plan a path forward for peace of mind. No soul or spirit required.
It's actually off topic and nothing to do with said topic.
You're right you didn't imply it, but with you, it's always there.
Yes I really believe the angrier the atheist ,or simply the anti-religious, the more passionately they wish to preserve life, for as long as the universe has suns that burn and planets forming and spinning in their orbits, basically for as long as possible.
The thing is, there is no proof that there is anything more for us then the lives we live. The whole idea about believing in God or religion or anything else is that it is a matter of faith. Since there is no proof that we are all immortal and will live in some afterlife world created for us by God, anything at all that is a harm to humanity must be stopped if you wish to call yourself any kind of decent. The thing is, one day humans will be gone but that day does not need to be soon. When the last sun has cooled right down and all is gone then yes we must be too but how long we are here before then might be down to us. If it is then ridding the world of anything that causes harm is imperative, from an evolutionary stand point, because it would be nice for humans to survive and continue appreciating this amazing universe of ours.
Well that took me so long to compose (kept going off on tangents, something I am prone to do) I am now having to think about bed time! I am sure there will be some interesting reading when I wake and am looking for distractions from work
Do you realize that, in effect, you're saying you DO want mankind to live forever?! Just not individually (since reality tells us we're going to physically die eventually), but as a whole.......
Brenda, I have seen many comments in the forums stating that christians are forcing their beliefs on others. Standing on one's faith when being attacked is not imposing at all.
You're correct, Woman. Everyone knows that. It's just a game to a lot of them. And even if not attacked, the Christian still has the right to proclaim their Faith wherever they wish as long as they don't go to someone's home and violate their privacy.
People who hate God will do an say anything to get a reaction ,even if its a lie.
They do not want everyone to have the same rights as themselves.
They want to control what you say ,who you say it too and when you say it.
I am commanded to love them (love everyone) but I will resist their ideas and their lies whenever I meet them
I am liberated from being bound up and give God the glory for my freedom
And yet, that is exactly what we find in your posts.
That is what we find in your religious doctrines.
That is what we find with your gods commands.
That is what we find in a typical religious belief system.
Instead of proclaiming you believe in Jesus (or God, or Allah, or whatever other religious figure head that fits the religion being spouted) why not proclaim that you believe in Love?
I proclaim here and now to believe in Love, Honesty (the gauge that tells you if your choices in life are being made with wisdom) and Giving a Damn about Others. Who could disagree with that?
That is your choice and I respect you for that.
I used to believe in love before I met Christ,now I just understand where it comes from and why...(doesnt mean I know more ,or love more...I just know God loves me ,and my outlook changes on many things.
Life is choices.
Agreed. It's a game in an attempt to silence us, and yes we are imperfect people. God bless you Brenda.
Really? Then by your own words, you would have to be saying something in the first place if you were in fact trying to be silenced. And, considering you have the freedom of religion and the freedom of speech, who exactly is trying to silence you?
Thats exactly why you pop up like a rubber duck everytime Christians gather Beezle.
Like a moth to flame ,you cant stay away.
Why not start a thread about 'What Do Athiests believe in" and see if we flock there
So, you post this and you expect no response?
In other words, what you're saying is that "everytime Christians gather" it is to make open and public declarations that there are god haters and that they will lie, and that they want to take away your right to state there are god haters and that they will lie.
Very funny Beelzedad I never stated I was trying to be silenced. You are truly a master of twisting my words around. Yes I do have the freedom of speech. I don't need to answer that question. If the shoe fit, wear it. Have a happy day.
Faith is believing in things unseen.
Anyone can believe in what they can see-
Beelze thats the difference!
No eye has seen ,no ear has heard .....
Yes, I know, the difference between believing in leprechauns and unicorns and gods; faith. Yeah, I get that.
And, had you been indoctrinated into a leprechaun belief system instead of religion, you would state emphatically that leprechauns existed as it is "believing in things unseen".
Why do keep repeating yourself and interfering with other discussions.........?
Have some manners!
If you knew the difference then you wouldnt keep repeating reality?
The reality is you really should start your own thread.
Do you remember childhood games we played that drove our parents nuts! saying things like.
I know you are ,you said you are?
Im (insert lastest whatever) now ,what are you?
Im taller ,no I am , Ive got brown shoes so there na na na na na
I think it should be allowed I mean, since when has it been illegal to save someone's life?
I don't think there is any harm in going door to door to meet the people in a courteous way; giving just one bell, waiting for the inhabitants to come or else leaving the message at the door, so that the occupants picks it at their convenience.
There's a reason why people hate door to door canvassers. it doesn't matter if they're selling religion or windows.
Please mention the reason with advantages and disadvantages; the disadvantages could be softened.
There are no advantages since the information on offer has been around for centuries and everyone knows where to find it IF THEY WANT TO.
As for the disadvantages, there is the waste of time which can never be replaced.
I don't agree with you.
I think time spent for Truth is time well spent.
Actually, it's well spent time IF truth is found. However, you're not seeking truth, because all you do is continue the spout religion's nonsense.
Well its MY TIME so its not for YOU to decide.
One goes to a house; rings the bell; the occupant comes and is happy to see one.
One shows the flyer and says; "You may like to read it, if you like".
The occupant takes it and thank for giving it.
I think it is perfectly alright.
And, if they refuse to take it, then what? Continue to run off at the mouth. This was an experience I just had. They wanted to hand me a booklet and I didn't want it, but they persisted anyways.
Ignorance is truly blissful and extremely damaging to the rest of humanity.
It is wrong to persist; if the occupant says no thanks, I don't need it or like that; then one may move to the next house.
Even in this situation; a very light contact has been established; sometimes after some reflection the man returns and says "OK give me. I will read it" .
Those who come with the sole purpose of promoting their religion unannounced on ones doorstep are not objects of the occupants happiness. Far from that.
Of course, having the right of freedom of religion and freedom of speech does give you the right to evangelize a religion door to door, and many would defend those freedoms.
However, you shouldn't expect to see happiness from an occupant who understands that using those freedoms to promote a religion door to door is intellectually dishonest to the principles those freedoms represent and shows a motive lacking of integrity and respect.
It should be perfectly alright, as a propagandist, you successfully maintain control over the entire time of delivering the message irrespective of the occupants desires or wishes that you do indeed need to deliver it and they need to receive it.
One may even in the position of being a tiny minority, organize, if one may so like, an inter-faith dialogue in one's locality and discuss this thing there.
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