I am so angry with the Church!! What???
Have you been told that you are angry with the church? Are you angry with the church?
I have been told that I am VERY angry with the church and am looking for answers that are only there in the church......
What the F----? No, I am not angry with the church. When Jesus called me to minister, he called me to minister for him and not the church. Does that make him mad at the church and doing his work does that make me angry with the church? I don't think so. Who says and where does it say that if Jesus calls you to be a minister for him that it has to be the church? Does asking this question make me an angry person?
When I did research about the Bible and what it says today, the King James Version and also the American Standard Edition (the Catholic Bible) and compared some of the verses and wordings of one of the original transciptions they were different. Church was non existant in the Yoiung's Lieteral Translation. Kill was only in a few passages and verses and in a lot more in the other two that I mentioned. Now searching is told to us by Jesus and so I did my searches and he lead me to those other scriptures. Does this make me angry with the church? I don't think so.
I have noticed a pattern with the people of the church. If you tell them or even show them that there have been lots of changes in that book they read--the first thing that they will tell you is that you are angry with the church.
When did doing Jesus's work become being angry with the church? Why do they persecute nthse who belive in Jesus so? Now I know why they killed Jesus and I beleive I know how he felt too.
They will tell you what God is and how Jesus is, but if you don't go to church then you can't see either of them. They think that they ore the only ones who are privy to this information. That doesn't make me angry with the church.
Are you one of these "outcasts" too and do they tell you that you are angry with the church?
I am not angry with anybody........I have to say that Jesus Called Us To Love God's People. The Bible is a guide on how to do that. We take it how we take it. Though the Word Never Changes. Because God Never Changes. He is Always Who He Is. However, how we interpret the Word may change because We are not God and We change a lot. The only way to Truly know if the way you read God's Word ( The Bible- Any Translation) is to pray to him personally and ask him to give you confirmation. The Word Never Changes, We might though. I hope you find that God is with you still and He would Lead you to His Will for Your Life.
Espian~I quit "Church" many years ago. Every form of a Christian Church today springs from the church that Constantine formed many years ago. They are all financial institutions that cannot exist without donations from their 'sheep'. Everybody gets a haircut.
Constantine had the Old Ways changed and he even changed the baptism. Any who would not conform to his new world was killed. The Church is the Christians worst enemy!
Sorry, and God created all evil as well as all good! Didn't He create Satan? For it is written, "I create good, and I create evil. I create dark, and I create light." check it out
You may not be angry but you have every right to be.Wow I looked up the verse and as always looked up the whole chapter so as not to take anything out of context and Thank you for posting that---here is what it says!
This is Young's Literal Translation:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Isaiah 45
1Thus said Jehovah, To His anointed, to Cyrus, Whose right hand I have laid hold on, To subdue nations before him, Yea, loins of kings I loose, To open before him two-leaved doors, Yea, gates are not shut:
2`I go before thee, and crooked places make straight, Two-leaved doors of brass I shiver, And bars of iron I cut asunder,
3And have given to thee treasures of darkness, Even treasures of secret places, So that thou knowest that I, Jehovah, Who am calling on thy name -- [am] the God of Israel.
4For the sake of my servant Jacob, And of Israel My chosen, I call also thee by thy name, I surname thee, And thou hast not known Me.
5I [am] Jehovah, and there is none else, Except Me there is no God, I gird thee, and thou hast not known Me.
6So that they know from the rising of the sun, And from the west, that there is none besides Me, I [am] Jehovah, and there is none else,
7Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'
8Drop, ye heavens, from above, And clouds do cause righteousness to flow, Earth openeth, and they are fruitful, Salvation and righteousness spring up together, I, Jehovah, have prepared it.
9Wo [to] him who is striving with his Former, (A potsherd with potsherds of the ground!) Doth clay say to its Framer, `What dost thou?' And thy work, `He hath no hands?'
10Wo [to] him who is saying to a father, `What dost thou beget?' Or to a wife, `What dost thou bring forth?
11Thus said Jehovah, The Holy One of Israel, and his Former: Ask Me of the things coming concerning My sons, Yea, concerning the work of My hands, ye command Me.'
12I made earth, and man on it prepared, I -- My hands stretched out the heavens, And all their host I have commanded.
13I have stirred him up in righteousness, And all his ways I make straight, He doth build My city, and My captivity doth send out, Not for price, nor for bribe, said Jehovah of Hosts.
14Thus said Jehovah, `The labour of Egypt, And the merchandise of Cush, And of the Sebaim -- men of measure, Unto thee pass over, and thine they are, After thee they go, in fetters they pass over, And unto thee they bow themselves, Unto thee they pray: Only in thee [is] God, And there is none else, no [other] God.
15Surely Thou [art] a God hiding Thyself, God of Israel -- Saviour!
16They have been ashamed, And they have even blushed -- all of them, Together gone in confusion have those carving images.
17Israel hath been saved in Jehovah, A salvation age-during! Ye are not ashamed nor confounded Unto the ages of eternity!
18For thus said Jehovah, Creator of heaven, He is God, Former of earth, and its Maker, He established it -- not empty He prepared it, For inhabiting He formed it: `I [am] Jehovah, and there is none else.
19Not in secret have I spoken, in a dark place of the earth, I have not said to the seed of Jacob, In vain seek ye Me, I [am] Jehovah, speaking righteousness, Declaring uprightness.
20Be gathered, and come in, Come nigh together, ye escaped of the nations, They have not known, Who are lifting up the wood of their graven image, And praying unto a god [that] saveth not.
21Declare ye, and bring near, Yea, they take counsel together, Who hath proclaimed this from of old? From that time hath declared it? Is it not I -- Jehovah? And there is no other god besides Me, A God righteous and saving, there is none save Me.
22Turn to Me, and be saved, all ends of the earth, For I [am] God, and there is none else.
23By Myself I have sworn, Gone out from my mouth in righteousness hath a word, And it turneth not back, That to Me, bow doth every knee, every tongue swear.
24Only in Jehovah, said hath one, Have I righteousness and strength, Unto Him he cometh in, And ashamed are all those displeased with Him.
25In Jehovah are all the seed of Israel justified, And they boast themselves.' "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wow, I wonder why those who go to church and claim to know what the Bible says don't read this? It's funny how they skip over the important patrts!
Personally I am a wiccan, but I have a friend who is very religous. She looks up certain things and sees the differences each bible has. As religous as she is she never goes to church and so she is told by her family that she is in fact "angry with the church"! She simply tells them that the church was not started in mansions of wood and stone. She believes the kingdom of god is inside her and all around her so unless she can be seperated from herself (unlikely) she can never be "angry at the church".
I agree with your friend. Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is within you not in a building. All the differences in the bibles, makes me wonder. I also researched timelines and chronoligal happenings of the earths inhabitants. History is wrong but their King James Bible is the only book there is. Well there a lots of things that are in the King James version that is not even mentioned in the earlier versions, most of it is control issues and power hungry schemes. ................and I am the one angry with the church??? not!
- sandra rinckposted 16 years ago
0What if all this time, the very first man to exhibit conscious behavior, one who became aware of his own self, saw the world and said: "My name is God and this is all that there is."
What's your take?Well Christians tend to look the other way when faced with facts, which makes me beleive they are brainwashed intp beleiving that that one book is the only one out there that is the only one that is correct---only it has been changed sooooo much. Getting to your point about God------if you read other things about God -- we humans were made in THEIR (plural) likeness and image..............so there are others. Now with MAN being the first that God(s) created AFTER the ANIMALS and other earthly things, he made Female. Well Female was out of Man and so being We have God's intelligence and looks----so we must know about him since we are from him and we are likened to him and so we are part of him. That is our genetic (remember biology 101) and chromozomes makeup. We cannot be separated from that.
So these God's there must have been a women in them else how would they know what one looked like. I think God has others there with him and they are all floating around in space on some other planet that doesn't like to destroy itself and it's inhabitants.......lol Looking at it from that perspective we are the greediest, nastiest and most ungrateful beings that they ever made. Now how do you think that makes THEM feel.
Hey LG,
How does it make God feel? See Genesis 6:5-6, God still feels the same way but is keeping Their promise not to destroy us again, Genesis 9:8-17.
God also said in Malachi 3:6 That He has not changes His mind (This was the one who became Jesus, speaking). God's whole purpose is to increase Their family. Before this is completed sin and death will be destroyed with Satan and his demons forever, Revelations 20:7-15.
This earth seems to be like a 'boot camp' for us humans to see what sin causes - death and unhappiness. When we see the difference first hand we will be glad when all this is over with and all has been restored to what God intended for us, Revelations 21:1-5. We will never want Satan's evil system again! Our free choices have been very expensive but are worth while when we all make the right ones with God's help, Genesis 3:15, Mathew 28:18-20
the lionswhelpHey Misty Magick,
You have a good friend to work with. Wicca is a religion to but not from the God of Creation.
If you need more help check out: 'Christians for Biblical Equality' at : www.cbeinternational.org. They have a very interesting book "The Goddess Revival" This should help you understand were you are at. This was written for people like you who are or have been members of Wicca to help you see what you are connected too. No doubt you may have certain gifts that make you stand out from other humans. You may need to have them directed to the right place.
The lionswhelpHey Sandra,
Jesus knew that humans would still oppose God's plan for us. Even the Jews, most Jews of his Day opposed His doctrine of salvation. They should have known better.As long as Satan is alive and well he causes us to war against God just as the flesh wars against Spirit,nGaltians 5:17. Satan could not defeat Christ, he was only allowed to kill Him, but this works for our good, Genesis 3:15, Matthew 28:18-20. But this war of oppostion from the devil is still going on. Christians win Satan and his demons and false religions will loose Revelation 19, 20, 21. Ha, Ha, Ha!
The lionswhelp“Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.”
- Isaac Asimov
It's actually a "two edged sword". It cuts both ways.
No, Sorry. You are wrong.
One of the founding blocks for my atheism is a thorough understanding of the bible."Thorough"? Not thorough enough.
I've discovered things in there that have changed my life(!). Things which you haven't.If you had, you'd be where I am.
I think you may have a thorough understanding of certain "christian" religion(s), but that does not cover the wnole content of (said) bible.Now that depends on ones life path there. Just possibly he is on a different one and the Bible or the religious implications put him on HIS path. Just being here might change HIS path without ever rading the Bible. There is so much of what the Bible says right out in the mainstream that one may never ever have to read a word on it.
It is true that life teaches many lessons. However, Mark's post was specific, and that's what I was addressing.
My position, though is, that if you take Jesus Christ ( the real person, who physcally walked the earth, and died and rose from the dead) out of "christianity", you do NOT have christainity!
If I am to be called a christian, without total dependance on Christ, then I am NOT one.No, I don't believe Jesus even said that. Jesus never said to have total dependance on him either. Saying so means you don't understand Jesus and what he said that his purpose was and is. Everyone that comes across those who do not think as they do are missing the point............................................
Only 10 persent of what Jesus did and says are in that ook. When you understand that then maybe you will understand why we are here and what Jesus really meant. In that Bible he said to seek and ask questions and test the other spirits and even the ones thar are listed in that Bible. Now how can one test anything if one only believes only what they are being told by a human.
10 percent is only in the Bible--now where do you supposed the 90% is.........................
I have discovered things that have changed my life also.
Sorry. You are wrong. You have reached an erroneous conclusion by faith alone.
This is a huge mistake, and one of the things that the bible teaches one not to do. Which you would understand if you had understood it.......
Faith alone will never sustain you. Only you can do that, and you can only find this - within.
Not externally. No external god........
There is a purpose for the Bible that no one is relating too. That is one needs to know it is there to do as Jesus says--and that is to Ask, Seek, Believe and to TEST everything to see if it jives with you--not with others or a group, but the individual. There are good nuggets of truth in there for everyone. If religion would get out of it's own way and stop trying to put the Universe in a tiny box and hide it then we would all be loving individual's, but then you have the other side of that--no one would be alive to feel the wonder of that loving Universe.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
As for the 10% vs 90% I will let St John speak again; Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
I hope this answers those points for you.Is that all you know how to do is spat off bible verses without your very own thoughts? Can't you read andrespond with your very own mind?
Did I not say that only 10 percent is in that Bible--now that is a very little of the whole, doncha think........................
Where is the other 90 percent??????????????? It is NOT in that Bible!!!
Think, Think, Think!Please, don't yell!!!
What is written is enough to get me "there"! I have a big enough task in implementing what the 10% has to say. If I/you needed more, He would have given more.
As for think...think...think... That only has limited value. There are many tasks in life I don't have answers to, no matter how much or how hard I think. I need help from "outside".Whose yelling? I am not using all caps.
Now read the whole story of what he was talking about---------
26And after eight days, again were his disciples within, and Thomas with them; Jesus cometh, the doors having been shut, and he stood in the midst, and said, `Peace to you!'
27then he saith to Thomas, `Bring thy finger hither, and see my hands, and bring thy hand, and put [it] to my side, and become not unbelieving, but believing.'
28And Thomas answered and said to him, `My Lord and my God;'
29Jesus saith to him, `Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed; happy those not having seen, and having believed.'
30Many indeed, therefore, other signs also did Jesus before his disciples, that are not written in this book;
31and these have been written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye may have life in his name.'
........................what did he say aout the other works of Jesus? The are NOT in the BOOK. Yep, John has this in his book......................Picking and chosing......tsk, tsk, tsk.................Oh and Thomas's account is not included in the Books of the Bible.............why? they say it is heresay---only if that is totally true then they would not mention him in any of the Books that are written----speaking for thers is like Hearsay--and you do know why that is not allowed in any court of law--same with the Bible............................
You are saying tsk, tsk, tsk to John the apostle? Holy man. Actually no where in the Bible does it say that they just wrote 10 percent about Jesus. It does say that if everything was written about God it would take volumes. We got enough in the Bible for salvation as it is, if we follow it.
Without a church how are you going to do what Jesus asked you to do in John 6:48-58?
This is the most important part of the Bible, bar none. Without attending a denomination that their priests or ministers consecrate the unleavened bread for Holy Communion you will not be able to do what verse 54 says, "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
MikeI wasn't saying tsk tsk tsk to John, you misread that.
Also you don't have to have a physical Church as Jesus was not tlaking about any phycial church.
Show me where it says anything abouyt a physical church with all those things that you mention--in the Bible., The verse you gave does not say a physical church.
PS Just for arguments sake, "forget ALL of the 10% and the 90%", and only keep the Ten Commandments. Then, live them in every moment of your life. You would be my (other) hero, if your life stacked up to that standard!!!
Well some people can and do hold up to those standards. Some people fail sometimes, but that does not mean that Jesus and God loves us any less.
While you ar at the ten commandments--take all images that resemble Jesus out of all the churches in the world. Then get rid of all the money becasue that is worship like a God to some people--like the CEO's and Financial people that are drowning in debt right now.
Mike, according to your stadnards for a church how do those churches that are in schools and only have one pastor doing it all---are they a church *according to the standards you put forth?
Mike, here is an article for you about what constitutes a church:
http://www.zenit.org/article-18857?l=englishyou know what Lady G, I am angry at the church too.
LG a church isn't a building. The people of God are His church. The buildings are built by them. The main source of God's grace is from Holy Communion. Why limit it to just once a year.
What? n Are you repeating me or are you just making it clear that you understand me. I wasn't the one who ever said that church was a building--you did.
Doing too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. I don't offer commnion because Christ is not in the flesh anymore--not in his flesh but in our flesh, minds and hearts-----why would you want to eat your own flesh and mind and heart when that is what you need to survive on this planet? Jesus said that you should be like a bird and not worry about your needs, because they will be given to you-all you need to do is ask.
Mike,
How many times did Jesus say to eat his flesh and drink his blood? Aren't some of us being just a bit too cannabalistic??I must admit, I have always wondered how a metaphorical statement like this got turned into a need for a church and the only way you can do this is if it is blessed by a priest......
Oh yeah - money.
It is the most important part of the bible though. The rest is just fillerThumbs Up==er should I say Dollar Bills!!
LG,
Jesus Christ said, "Wherever two or three are gathered together there I am." Matthew 18:20.
The back bone of God's Churches are the House Churches. Take the Persecuted Church overseas in places like China. In China there are hundreds of thousands of them. Many are led by women even in Iran and other places. A friend of mine visited members of about 35 million Pentecostasl in China several years ago. On night when he returned to his Hotel two women were waiting for him. They wanted this minister to pray for their House Churches. When he asked the first women how many churches she had, she said, "2,000". When he asked the second women how many Churches she had she said, "5,000". Wow, he thought, these ladies should be praying for him and the churches he represented in the USA. He also said the main movers of these churches were young women from the ages 18-28.
On my Hub I am presently addressing this third important point of "Whats wrong with the Churches Today', about Women in the Church. Check out this Website if you need to find out where you should be, at: www.cbeinternational.org .
The lionswhelpSandra,
Exactly, it is wherever two or three are gathered together in God's name. The most enjoyable place that I have visited was The Friends Church (Quakers), they sat in a circle and people spoke up as the Holy Spirit led them to do. Some might have a Bible verse to read or one might have a song to sing. Everyone had something different to say. Jesus was there in the middle of this group with the Holy Spirit inspiring good works in them.
Wherever you meet in a living room or outside by a lake or by the seaside is just fine as there might be two or three, Acts 16:13 . Some times you may be by yourself at home or like some that have been imprisoned like Peter and are alone in solitary confinement Acts 12:1-12. Jesus will be there with the Holy Spirit inspiring you! It is the Spirit in you that makes you part of the kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 > Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple is Holy, which temple you are.
This is repeated in 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 & 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. Now we walk according to the Spirit that the righteous requirements of God's Laws might be fulfilled in us because we are the children of God, Romans 8:1-4,11--17. Jesus said we need the faith of God in us to please God, Matthew 17:20. To please God we need the fruits of the Holy Spirit in us which produces faithfulness,Galatians 5:22. The writer ofthe Book of Hebrews said it is impossible to please God without faith, Hebrews 11:6 > But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.
The lionswhelpThank you for explainng biblically that the kingdom is within you and that my church can be on the internet and not in some kind of building. Now if the others can read maybe they would/could understand the same............since it comes straight from the bible!
LG,
How many times did Jesus say to partake of the Blood and the Wine that is symbolic of his broken body and shed blood? Just once a year.
The Passover is only partaken once a year, Leviticus 23:5, 1 Corinthians 5:6-8. Jesus instructed His disciples to do the same thing every year. Those Christians that listen to Him, take it at Passover time, once a year to renew their vows to God, Luke 22:15-20. To do it over and over day in and day out is not necessary. It would be like re-crucifying Christ over and over again for our sins day in and day out. Repentance is something done every day whenwe slip up because our human nature wants to do wrong when we should do the rightthings, Romans 7:14-25. We are encouraged to endure and overcome our human nature and this world's ways, Revelation 12:9 and Revelation 3:13,21; Hebrews 12:1-7
He did it once and for all, God does not need or care for repetitious prayers asked in Christ's name or customs that would demean Christ's sacrifice over and over again, Matthew 6:7-8, Hebrews 6:4--6; hebres 10:9-14; Hebrew 7:24-28.
The lionswhelpThe writers of the Gospel believed in Reincarnation. There's some passage that says John the Baptist was Elijah and Jesus, Elisha...or something like that. Is anyone familiar with the passage I am referring to?
That is all discussed on my other forum Who Can Hear Jesus. You might want to take a look.
yes there are several passages that point in that direction: off the top of my head I can think of this one. The one where a disciple asked, " who sinned that this person should have this affliction, him or his parents?" and I would have to go looking for the others.
There are several books about the subject that I have read:
"Reincarnation for the Christian" by Quincy Howe
"The Hidden Sayings of Jesus" by Marvin Meyer (the author of "The Gospel of Thomas")
"Reincarnation, the Missing Link in Christianity" by Elizabeth Prophet,
especially her interpretations of the Dead Sea Scrolls and other Gnostic texts
hello lady guinevere...i thrust that sir lancelot is still paying his respects...my, my, what would us humans do if we did not have ample 'bindings of myth" to shuffle about, while declaring that one has more shine than another...
incidentally...the most reliable source of rational "truth" about all the testaments exists from one of our brightest founding fathers...Thomas Paine pinned it in his famous "Age of Reason"...Paine takes the pathetic things apart and wrings them out...an infant would recognize the fraud, fable and lies that Paine exposes throughout the entire scribblings of both...
however, there is one drawback...Its only for those of sound mind that are curious for sensible rational truth... here is the link...http://www.ushistory.org/Paine/reason/index.htmI never meant to forget about your post. Sorry that I did and then time go away from me.
All spiritual works have multiple levels of meaning which are perceived to a greater or lesser extent according to each persons level of intuition and desire to understand. A person who's objective is to undermine and refute will find all the arguments he needs just as "effectively" as a theologian or contemplative mystic will find all the supports he needs to support faith. Paine has but a single rationalist perspective which but one of many ways of understanding the Nature of Things; the Theologian has another; so also the Poet, the Artist and bourgeois Professional. A scientist sees in the color red molecules that reflect and absorb wavelengths of light; a merchant sees a vivid hue to flatter the vanity of his customers; an artist sees the passion of true love and valorious death along with associated wavelengths of emotion. Bottom Line: scientists can be as dogmatic and narrowminded as any religious zealot but in a different manner. And guess what, the rationalists of the Englightenment were not infallible or perfectly objective, nor are the scientist of today who have become the instruments of left wing interests.
I think God give us all brain to think for our self ,why do we need Chris or Mohamed to tell us how to think ,how to live, they are people just like Osoma or Bush.
yes, I'm working on that cogency thing...unfortunately I don't have a great many models to work from on here.
"yes, I'm working on that cogency thing...unfortunately I don't have a great many models to work from on here." Thanks for making me feel ohhhh so good, and happy holidays to ya dull. Don' hurt yourself.
a fanatic is a fanatic and especially when the subject approaches religion...rationale, senibility and any "interest is truth" seems to evaporate from religious fanatics...Paine simply points directly to fraud, lies and fable throughout the old and new testaments...every single book of matthew, mark, luke and john were clearly written by imposters 4-6 hundred years after they actually lived...and a similiar account with moses...
Well you shouldn't be trying to fool others into believing that you are a Christian minister then. I'll refer you back to John 6:48-58 again.
Just more bibical quotes with no meaning behind them.................Jesus said not to have anyting in remebrance of anything you can't see. I will look that up if need be but you need to look it up for yourself.
Christ did not have a church then and he wasn't a minister either so I would appreciate it that you give me the same respect as he got then--and he didn't get a heck of a lot of respect in the places he wa born in either!
Why do you keep judging me and each other. Judge not least ye be judged. Just becasue I do not do things like you do or your church does not in any way mean that I don't believe in Jesus and God. Jesus did things those churches in his day didn't like either and that included their traditions and rituals.
Why do it more than is needed. Christ gave the example starting with Exodus 12: 1-14.
it is an everlasting Covenant fulfilled by Christ for ever Matthew 26:17-19 > the disciples did as Christ directed them... Can you show me where and why it should be done over and over. I cannot find where it says to do it every day?
the lionswhelpTo receive God's grace, as I mentioned. It's needed. Christian tradition has been handed down through generations from Jesus and the apostles. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 2 Thessalonians 3:6
The blood sacrifice mentioned in Exodus 12: 1-14 has been done away with. Jesus replaced it as the Paschal Lamb that is mentioned in Matthew 26:17-19 and John 6:48-58. We receive Him with Holy Communion.So do I at Passover and partake of Christ's New Testament ordinances; foot washing, Unleavened bread and wine once a year at this communion. The Passover at Exodus was never done away it is forever, Exodus 12:14. The only thing changed was the replacement of the lamb with Jesus Christ. He gave us the new symbols; the foot washing, bread and wine for his followers, Christians to keep, John 13:3-17, Luke 22:14-20, Mark 14:12-, 22-26, Matthew 26:26-27; Leviticus 23:1-8.These are part of God's appointed Feast, Leviticus 23:37-38. The Passover comes first before the Days of Unleaven Bread and is considered part of these Days.
You still have not shown me where they are to be done every over and over again through the scriptures, other than at Passover. Neither have you shown me that the Passover has been done away with.
The lionswhelp.Sure I have Lionswhelp, in the post just before this one of your's. Here I'll post it again.
I didn't say the Passover has been done away with. Animal sacrifice has been done away with, replaced by the Paschal Lamb, Jesus.
The tradition of Holy Communion has been passed down to us from Jesus and the apostles. If you don't think that we should be following tradition then I'll post 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 2 Thessalonians 3:6 for you from the KJB.
MikeI don't know about witching animal sacrifice for the "Paschal Lamb"---Humans are animals too and so for that to happen it just replaced one animal for another kind of animal--so how did that get rid of animal sacrifice?
I found something interesting for you al to read. I hope that you hold your judgements until you read the last word. I hope you will read it with an open mind too.
http://www.propheticrevelation.com/orig … pendix-A-2Yeah I see what you mean LG but I don't like referring to Jesus as an animal.
I like your new avatar.Thanks for the compliment. I don't normally refer to Jesus and an animal, but humans is in the animal kingdom. We are all animals ya know!
Hey, just so you now I will be away and not near a computer from Tuesday to next Sunday. If things go crazy or get backed up you will know why.
Have a Joyous Holiday for you and yours and also for everyone else that are here on HubPages.
I need to go wrap more gifts! I am not good at that!
LG, it would help to know what it is you're angry about. If you're angry about how men treat women in the church...ok... be angry about how men treat women.
then, since you admit to being a minister, do what ministers do... go out and minister The Gospel to all that have hearts willing to receive. Because as long as you are angry, and sitting in your anger you haven't forwarded the Kingdom at all. I humbly suggest you pray and find a spiritual mentor, and then vent with that mentor. We do the body of Christ no favors by whining like those that don't know and love God.Couldn't be bothered to read the first post to discover the source of the anger, huh?
Never mind - offer a few condescending platitudes, that should do it....Very patronizing and condescending, but because I and LG and her friends are on good terms with the almighty head honcho, spaghetti monster, light bearing divine omniscient presence, you are humbly forgiven for not knowing anything about the person who started this subject.
I read this earlier today and after Mike and Mark commented on it, I thought they did a pretty good job of letting her know her mistake.
See there are alot of people like her out there in this world and I think they learn how to do this "knee jerk" response from their clergy. I know they don't learn it from public schools! It's called takng things Out Of Context...........bingo! The only thing the know or have been taught.
So, do you think they will be back to make amends and see their error or not?
Do they know how to apologize.....hmmmm.........I have not experienced that one from anyone..............yet.
I'd have to agree.
Have a very Merry Christmas though.
I should be wrapping presents right now myself.who are they? and I read your post before I wrote. I speak from experience about being angry and whining. It is an emotional response to a problem and since I didn't understand the root of your anger... what... the translations of the holy texts..? what am I to do? be a mind reader? and am I being condescending not to be wrapped up in how silly people can be? so be it.
I know in whom I have believed and still believe in, and I know that as humans we can all do dumb stuff, as christians, and as pagans....Okay a chronology of the forum:
When I go against the mainstream of church teachings, dogma and doctrines the first thing a fundamental christian says is that I must be angry with the church. I am not angry with anyone and that is usually the first repsonse that someone says without finding out what it is that I am truly saying. Now you did the same exact thing, andthen you posted this message and again did the same thing. Now I am not mad at anybody. The first post on this forum topic explains that, if you had really read it you would know.
Mike,
The Christian Traditions you mentioned have to do with the new ones Christ gave, footwashing, unleaven bread- the body, and wine- the blood. Which was done traditionally annually, 1 Corinthians 10:1-22,31-33; 1 Corinthians 11:17--26,27-34, 1Corinthians 5:7 and Hebrews 11:28 > We still do it by faith once a year. There are some that question this tradition and wonder why some still keep the Passover or any of God's Holy Days, Leviticus 23, but this was a prophecy by Paul in Colossians 2:16-23,13-15. When Christ returns he will keep it traditionally with us once a year, Luke 22:14-19.
The lionswhelpKeep what traditionaly every year? It can't be what it is now and that is the remebrance of Christ--if he is alive then there is no need for the tradition at all.
Oh come on, you are reading into the Bible what is not there. Nowhere in Luke 22:14-19 does it say "once a year".
fine, I missed something, I freely admit that I may have missed something, so what is your issue exactly? You didn't mention one, and I was extrapolating something from what I saw on your post... now, I'd like to thank you for painting me and others as idiots just because you didn't express yourself clearly. have a blessed day.
Here is something that might clear up some misconceptions of the church--or not.
It is a testimonial from a Catholic Nun herself and her experiences and what not. A very interesting read at any rate:
http://www.catholicconcerns.com/Source.htmlAbout the Catholic Communion:
The Eucharist
(Catholic Communion)
Mary Ann Collins
(A Former Catholic Nun)
September 2008
http://www.catholicconcerns.com/Trans.htmlWell LG I read most of the two links you posted and the one on the other thread. All I got to say is don't believe everyone that claims they use to be a Catholic. I hear it all the time. Then when you listen to them or read what they write they prove themselves with their own words. On the link in the other thread she claims to be a former Catholic nun but then contradicts herself by saying "I started out as a secular humanist." I could go through each page and find the errors just like on most sites that hate Catholics but it's not worth my time. If she is trying to spread the Word of God then it kind of makes you wonder why she'd go so far out of her way to spread hate.
So you too think that anyone who isn't catholic spreads hate. You also state that she cannot claim to be catholic or once was becasue she was something way before she became catholic. Geesh that doesnt' make any sense to me. How do you think people come to be catholic in the first place if they weren't born catholic? it's called RCIA or cdonverting into a nunnery. Possibly you alaready had some pre-coinceived notions before you ever read her stuff. Isn't that judging-----hmmmm still not there yet are we......
Is she spreading Hate or Truth? If she lies tell us where and what your Bible says. Funny, how when some christians and catholics can't get around the first knee jerk response of how I am angry with the church, the next one is that I spread hate............why is that? Who and when were you taught that?
Mike,
Come on yourself no where does it say it should be done more than once a year either. Even RCC's believed this for quite some time. See: www.cogwriter.com/passover.htm. This is another outside source but it also goes into what RCC's sometimes believe from their own source.
I think those RCC's from the Most Holy Monastery would have something to say about these things too. They are a good outside source for information. I will look them up for more information on this topic @ www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com. Hey, did you know that there were 42 anti-popes?
The lionswhelpAnd no where in the Bible does it say Holy Communion should be offered just once a year. You post that cogwriter site to show that the Passover should still be observed. But I have already posted "I didn't say the Passover has been done away with." Easter is the Passover. We are at an impasse here Lionswhelp. You can choose to just receive Holy Communion once a year if you like. But myself, like most of the Christian community world wide (not just Catholics) choose to receive Holy Communion at least once a week following the tradition that was passed down to us from Jesus and the apostles.
Like I said in the other thread, I feel that Rome may have got a bit too ecumenical since Vatican II. But it is in the spirit of peace. Pope Benedict got himself into some hot water with some Muslims in Turkey last year for saying any religious leader that fosters war is not speaking from God or something along that line. I tend to agree with him cause he wasn't just talking about Muslim leaders but all leaders that preach war. Pope John Paul II said that God will punish the perpetrators of the war in Iraq. Note the underlying theme of both Popes is to try to foster peace. That is what ecumenicism is. Vatican II was an ecumenical council. Some traditional Catholic organizations like the Most Holy Monastery tend to go a tad overboard, similar to some Protestant fundamentalists. It looks like the Most Holy Monastery would call someone a heretic for just talking to someone from another religion. They may be right about the American Cardinal Walter Kasper though.
MikeMike.
And nowhere does it say more than once a year. Easter is not the Passover but one of those nasty pagan customs and worship of Astarte the Queen of heaven, Judges 10:6, Jeremiah 44:17-19; Ezekiel 8:14-16, Jeremiah 7:18.-19 There is no Biblical authority to celebrate Easter. God has not converted over to pagan customs and still wants all to keep the Passover once a year as is God's tradition, Malachi 3:6...7. You are keeping Easter to your own shame.
Check this web page out at: www.toolong.com and get your own copy of 'Too Long in the Sun!' by Richard Rives. Get a better life don't go pagan, go Jesus Christ!
The lionswhelpPagan huh?! Do you actually know what Pagan means and is? Do you know that the Catholics stole--yes stole pagan customs and made them their own and then turned around and calls the very culture and socitey they stole them from evil? Isn't stealing one of the commandments? Yet the chruch can steal anyting from anoterh culture, custome of society and not call the stealing? Double Standard!!!!
I sure bet Jesus Christ doesn't like that!No Easter is the Passover Lionswhelp. From this wikipedia on Easter we see that most languages use a derivative of the word Passover for the Easter celebration.
I underlined the derivatives of the word Passover above.
The month of April used to be called Easter in Germanic languages after a Germanic pagan goddess. The name of the Passover (Easter) became Easter in just Germanic languages because it mostly fell within the month of April. English is a Germanic language. Note it's not called Easter in other languages.
Mike
LG
Pagan means heathen. We are not to learn the way of the heathens, Jeremiah 10:2 (KJV). This was one of the very things that led to the destruction of the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Idolatry and the worship of pagan deities is an old story. Both Israel and Judah even sacrificed their infant children in the fire to these pagan deities, 2 Kings 17:16-20. The House of Israel became Gentiles or pagan heathens. So did most of Judah. The Jews that returned to Jerusalem after 70 years of captivity had repented of their pagan practices.
Jesus also forbade any type of hierarchy or chain of command leadership which he considered Gentile or pagan, Matthew 20:24-28, Luke 22:25-28. It is always servant leadership in an egalitarian setting with men and women equally sharing leadership roles, Galatians 3:28.
The lionswhelpThat is what the church teaches you to believe. Pagan means country folk. Country as not in a religious sect but in the country. Look it up! Now who was the direct person in charge of transferring all those customs to the church and religion---Contantine!! Go do some more research on that before you blindly believe somenone else's definition and get beyond the control factor.
"..........."Heathen" (Old English hæðen) is thought to derive from Gothic haiþi "dwelling on the heath". It may also be related to the Greek ethne, meaning an ethnic group. This word was used by Christians to mean the same as "Pagan" rural people who remained faithful to their native religion.
The word Heathen was applied to the Germanic tribes that were distributed over Eastern and Central Europe. Christianization of the Germanic peoples took place from the 4th (Goths) to the 6th (Anglo-Saxons, Alamanni) or 8th (Saxons) centuries on the continent, and from the 9th to 12th centuries in Iceland and Scandinavia.
In Icelandic Sagas, the terms heiðni and kristni (Heathenry and Christianity) are used as polar terms to describe the older and newer faiths.
Heathen beliefs were described by the historian Tacitus, which helps us reconstruct Heathenry today.
Reconstructionism is a methodology which attempts to accurately base modern religious practice on culturally and historically genuine examples of ancient religious practices. This methodology is also sometimes termed traditionalism. Some reconstructionists are attempting to restore the ancient social orders and tribal way of life, while the majority of reconstructionists are primarily concerned with religious practice.
The modernist religious tendencies of proselytization, evangelization and doctrinal ordained assimilation are destructive to our culture.
The beliefs of our ancestors did not disappear when modern religion was enforced. The old ways were integrated into the new religion. This syncretism lead to Heathens adopting monolatry, henotheism and pantheism.
You do not have to have Heathen ancestors or to be European to be a Heathen. You do not need to be born Heathen or have the tradition passed on to you from an unbroken line. You do not need to be initiated or consecrated in a ritual to be a Heathen. You do not need to perfectly reconstruct the ancient ways to be a Heathen. "
These are not my words but that of a friend on another social network.
Here is a good site about Constantine and his dealings with Religions, Pagans and such.:
http://www.vinland.org/scamp/grove/kreich/index.htmlLG,
Actually, the RCC didn't steal anything from the pagans because their beliefs are really the teachings of Mithraism. Constantine was the leader of this pagan religion and was called 'Pontifus Maximus" the high priest of paganism. He was committed to sun worship or "sol invicto comit. See: cogwriter.com/valentinus.htm ,and www.toolong.com.
As mentioned before Hadrian ran out the Jews and 7th Day Christians from Rome and indroduced the Day of the Sun as Christian in the 2nd century about 145 A.D. to the pagan Gentiles of Rome. This is also the time when the pagan Gnostic Valentinus intoduced his stuff alone with Mithraism.
The lionswhelpYes I know that. You didn't read the whole story on the site that I posted.
Where did Christmas come from--what date was picked and why? Hiow abou All Saints Day and how was that chosen and why-----read more...I KNOW you didn't read all ten chapters of that site that I listed about Constatine in so short of time. You couldn't have even skimmed it.
Interesting Information on this site as well:
http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/horned_god.htmlThanks LG,
I went back and looked through it. Very, very interesting. I will look at the other one also.
I would not call those Christians who did those things. Its seems like pagans against pagans under a new name "christain". that old saying, "If you can't whip them join them." Coverup is a big thing with the Devil and his followers. 'Christian' seems like a good name to use!
I cannot believe anyone that says they are a Catholic because they have twisted what is evil to seem good but the good they call evil "Christians follow Christ not the pope. Listen to Jesus and you will do what he commands in Revelation 18:1-5> Come out of her my people so that you do not share in her sins,so that you do not receive any of her plagues; for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has rememembered her crimes.
the lionswhelpHere is another site where Christians stole Pagan customs and it has pictures to convey what they are stating:
http://www.godsonlygospel.com/Pagan%20Connection2.htm
Do you not get it yet that the ones who put your very Bible together and translated it were the monks of the Catholic religion? Therefore all christians are of the same Bible and use the Same words that are in the Bible and those which are not included in your Bible the very same. Now you have to wonder why the Catholic Bible has 4 more books then yours and why yours is supposed to be the complete version which is 4 books less.
LG,
Are you saying you prefer to be a pagan rather than a Christian? Some monks did copy alot of scripture but a lot of Jews did also. And so did Christians not related to Catholicism. If you don't believe that God inspired 66 books of the Old Testament and New Testament then are you saying that paganism is the only right type of religion?
The God I follow inspiried all scripture an iit s God breathed by the Holy Spirit and is useful for teaching rebuking, correcting and training in righteousnss, so that the man or woman of God may be throughly equipped for every good work, 2 Timothy 3:15-16. That a person of God can present themselves to God as one approved, as a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth, 2 Timothy 2:15.
What are you trying to tell me? That you prefer to be a pagan? Did you get turned off from folowing Christ when you were a Nun for some reason. Do you prefer something like the New Age movement instead. Now there's a group that's filled with all kinds of pagan ideas.If you are this way, I feel sorry for you but this is happening to many that are stampeding away from the RCC.
All I can say to you is hang in there Christ will return after theGreat Tribulation. If you are alive than you will see him. If not you will have to wait for the Great White Throne Judgement. You will have your chance to see the difference and make a better choice. Be a follower of Christ or end up with all the pagans and false religions, Revelation 20:11-15.
Or you can continue to search the scriptures and prove things for your own good. All you have to do is repent of your sins be baptized and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit to help you, Acts 2:38-39. I don't know of anythng else that I can tell you to do. I will pray for you, but keep seeking, asking and knocking so that the door to salvation can be opened to you soon, as long as it is God's will for you at this time.
The lionswhelpI have no idea what you are talking about. How are you getting any of your statements? I am merely bringing to light some things that are hidden from view and why they would be hidden in the first place. I didn't say anything about me being Pagan or anyone else for that matter. I was never a Nun either. You are so brainwashed --- for lack of a better word. The Bible is not the whole truth and it will never be as long as men who have agenda's in controlling the populous are on the earth.
I don't know what you are reading, but it sure isn't what is on the pages that I posted here for you to read. You are twisting things to who know where and getting things from them that are not there. Why?
This reminds me of the show Lost n Space where they try to feed something to the Robot and it doesn't understand and constantly says: "It Does Not Compute" and finally burns up.This site has all information about how and when and who canonized the Bible:
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html
This site has information about the Council at Trent which also dealt with the canonization of the Bible"
http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent.html
The Development of the Canon of the New Testament"
http://www.ntcanon.org/
For you information I was baptised when I was 16. There is nothing wrong with me that needs praying for--spiritually that is. Save your prayers for those who really need it--like the ones who have lost jobs and those who have no savings to live off of in a job market that doesn't have any jobs to offer.
So you are a Christian but you are just mad about the way churches deviate from what Christ taught.. Is this what you are saying? That you are not a pagan or heathen or New Age but just fed up with those that claim to be Christians.and what they teach? Or do you throw out everything the Bible stands for?
The LionswhelpI am sorry but you seem to not read what I post and take everything that I post out of context. Fine if that is how you have been taught. How's that work for you in your daily job? I mean do you only listen to what you want to listen too or do you follow the directions of what your boss tells you--the whole message...
The more that I quote from the Bible, the more your kind ignore it. I know for a fact that anything that doesn't agree with what your clergy have taught you is all abot Satan and not God or Jesus. It is not time for you to hear the words of Jesus just yet. That does not mean that I don't love everyone for who they are and where they are in their paths though. I don't go putting God in a box and telling anyone else they they can't have his love becasue they are not special enough. If God wanted it that way, then there would be no other planets.
Why do you think GOD made other peoples of other languages and beliefs and experiences--just so we could put them out of his box too? Does that make sense to you?
You give Satan way too much credit and power. God has all the power--period.
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