Believers: What would it take for you to stop believing in God?

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speaseposted 13 years ago
For anyone who truly believes in God, the answer to the question would be. Nothing would stop me from believing in God.
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kate-olsonposted 13 years ago
This is a good question that everyone should ask themselves. My heart breaks for those Christians who answer "nothing." At some point, they must have stopped thinking.

I believe in God. If they found Jesus' body in a cave somewhere, and could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he never came back to life, I would stop believing.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i say nothing...not even a gun pointed at my head, could cause me to doubt and therefore stop believing. i trust in GOD, not man. man every day attempts to prove GOD does not exist, and they delude a great many so called christians into leaving GOD...in my opinion, those who stop believing in GOD never really believed in HIM in the first place. and there is a big difference in believing in HIS existence and believing in HIM. if they found proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that CHRIST was never risen...i would still believe GOD over man. man is to willing to believe anything other than the truth.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In order to believe in God you must believe in man. You learned about God through man--from your parents, your teachers, other adults when you were a child; or from the writings and books of men.
  
  You may say you have experienced "God" but it is you who choose to label those experiences as "God." And your label of God, in turn, comes from the opinions and ideas and beliefs of men. The way you think about God is inextricably tied to the definitions and ideas of men.
  
  So people who say they believe God over men, must think again. Men have influenced and informed their beliefs in the most profound way.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well said!
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  man cannot exist without GOD having first created him. man cannot know anything at all about GOD without HIM first telling us. personally i met CHRIST before i was ever taught about HIM. most of what i know came from GOD and not man. GOD does not need man to teach others of HIS existence, though HE does use man for that purpose on occasion.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here's an even trickier one for you. Suppose we ignore all other men, or people. It's just you. Just you and God. Ok, great, so God speaks to you, right?
  
  But then how do you receive his message? How do you understand him? How do you interpret him? By using your human mind. Thus, you are relying on your human mind to understand God. Thus, in fact, to believe in God you must believe in men--in this case, in one man or person: yourself.
  
  Belief in the human mind--and thus, the human--comes before God.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you keep insisting on seeing GOD as if HE were human and not capable of anything a human is not capable of. when i was three and died, before i ever heard of GOD or CHRIST, i saw JESUS. HE showed HIMSELF to me, i didnt conjure HIM up for some kind of comfort. if i had gone seeking CHRIST you might be right, but i didnt even know about HIM. it was HE who came to me. neither man nor his mind would exist without GOD. GOD does not need man to believe in HIM, but man needs GOD, whether or not man chooses to acknowledge that fact , it is true. GOD exists outside of time and space and mans unbelief.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  When you saw Jesus did he introduce himself as Jesus? Did he say "Hello, tlmcgaa70, my name is Jesus." Or did you experience it, and then afterward come to call it Jesus.
  
  If you already knew the name Jesus before this experience, then that confirms my point. If you did not know what to call it, but only afterward you learned the name "Jesus," and from then on started referring to it as such, then that confirms my point as well.
  
  I am not at all suggesting that God is limited as humans are.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  when you are in the presence of CHRIST, you dont need introductions...you KNOW it. it is impossible to not know HIM. do you think that on judgement day when standing before GOD, there will be those who say, "who is this being?" no...they will know beyond a shadow of a doubt just who that being is...and they will wish they did not exist. as i said before, GOD exists outside of mans unbelief. GOD made man not the other way around. my childs mind did not need to be told who CHRIST was before i could recognize HIM.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was afraid you would say something like that. A child needs to be taught about God, Jesus, the whole Biblical narrative, etc. Even if you argue that children have a basic awareness of God in a general sense, they are not born with this detailed particular knowledge of Jesus in their brains.
  
  A child needs to learn human language. Before he learns human language, he does not have a word for "God." If you were born in a Spanish-speaking country, the word you would use for God is "Dios." If German, "Gott." If French, "Dieu." And so on.
  
  A child needs to be taught these things. Simple fact.
  
  So I highly doubt that you immediately knew the figure you saw was named "Jesus Christ," the son of God who was born 2000 years ago in Palestine to a virgin mother. You had to learn all that.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  we are born knowing GOD instinctively. we lose that knowledge as we grow and are taught by adults. what we gain in its stead is human understanding of GOD, which is full of false information. i KNEW that i was in the presence of CHRIST...it does not matter that i knew the name of HIM later...I KNEW HIM. what you are implying is that GOD nad CHRIST only exist because man believes they exist. because man has to create names for them. yet man did not create the name GOD or CHRIST...these are names taught to man through GODs Holy Word...and to man directly, because in the early days, GOD spoke to man directly. "You will be my people and I will be your GOD." you think i suddenly knew all i know now the moment i saw CHRIST? of course not. i didnt need to nor was i ready for it at the age of three. what that event did, besides bring me back to life was to establish in my heart the truth of HIS existence. that can never be taken away from me. i have been walking with HIM and learning from HIM since then.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Right, that's what I said. But going back to what I said earlier, even if you "knew" God in a certain sense at the age of 3, that knowing was still being filtered through your mind.
  
  I am assuming for the sake of argument that God exists. Knowledge of God, like knowledge of everything else, depends on the human mind. So you simply cannot remove man from the equation, because we ARE men (people), and we are the ones thinking about God.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you are attempting to give man more importance than he has...or deserves. Man would not have a mind to consider GOD the way we do unless GOD first gave him that mind. GOD gave us a mind that could think in the abstract so that we could consciously KNOW HE existed and choose to accept or reject that knowledge. no matter how you try to get around it, God does not need man to exist...HE needs neither us or our belief. HE created us for HIS pleasure...not because we were necessary. so whether we know of GOD or not, HE still exists. animals also know of GOD, but they have not the choice to accept or reject HIM the way we do.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I already said I am assuming that God exists for the sake of argument. Read what I wrote. I am not talking about God, but rather the belief in God. It is a more profound and fundamental issue. Not the thing being known, but the knowledge itself. That is what no believer can get around: the fact that all knowledge--including knowledge of God--is filtered through the human mind.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  it appears to me you are saying that GOD only exists BECAUSE man believes in HIM. if this is not what you are trying to say, then please try to clarify it for me, because otherwise i simply dont get your point. it is impossible for man to exist unless GOD first created him. it does not matter that knowledge of HIM is filtered through our mind. HE gave us that knowledge in the first place. it all goes back to GOD first then man.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Funny how nature shows us it is possible for man to exist without being created by an invisible sky fairy.
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I thought you were an intelligent human being.
  
  At least that's how you portray your self.
  
  "invisible sky fairy", WTH is that? WTH did you get that from? Are you a new prophet, preaching some new doctrine?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ah yes, those who can never focus on the subject matter must have their say.
  
  So, that is the first time you've read that phrase?
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  AHH, well said by one who is GUILTY of the same!
  
  Not really. Just find it intriguing that you are parroting other peoples thoughts.
  
  Since when (and from where, for that matter) do people equate God, the creator of all things, to a sky fairy?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In other words, when we talk about reality, we are talking about the same things as opposed to fantasies where anything goes.
  
  I have no idea when that happened. But, it did, nonetheless.
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Prove it! Otherwise it's just an opinion, made up in the minds of mindless men.
  No logic or reason!
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What?
  
  I rendered you speechless?
  
  Now THAT'S a first!
  
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You keep saying God exists, God exists, man was created by God. I am not talking about that, for the 100th time.
  
  Let's make this simpler. I will ask you a short question, and I ask that you just give me a straight, short answer. Ok? Here we go.
  
  You said: "HE gave us that knowledge in the first place. it all goes back to GOD first then man."
  
  My question: How do you know?
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Funny how nature shows us it is possible for man to exist without being created by an invisible sky fairy.
  
  actually, what nature shows us is the glory of GOD, its creator. you simply choose not to see that, or more to the point, GOD has blinded you from seeing it.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is an obvious falsehood and you know it.
  
  God has blinded me?
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You keep saying God exists, God exists, man was created by God. I am not talking about that, for the 100th time.
  
  Let's make this simpler. I will ask you a short question, and I ask that you just give me a straight, short answer. Ok? Here we go.
  
  You said: "HE gave us that knowledge in the first place. it all goes back to GOD first then man."
  
  My question: How do you know?
  
  i will give you a simple answer...because HE told me.
  
  and troubled man...it is an obvious truth that you reject. and yes, GOD blinded you...
  
  John 12:40
  He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
  
  2 Corinthians 4:4
  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "because HE told me."
  
  Because he told you.
  
  Now: How do you understand what he told you? How do you make sense of it?
  
  (BTW you can reply to the comments by going to the Chronological thread by clicking in the top right corner of the page)
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i dont have any problem understanding HIM. HE has been teaching me my whole life. HE is my creator, surely you dont think my creator would have difficulty in showing me a thing so that i can understand it, do you. i realize that answer is not what you were looking for. but how do you describe the color red or green or blue to a person who has never had sight? it is impossible to describe something spiritual to one who sees only the physical world around them.
  
  and ty for cluing me in to the way to reply...i appreciate it.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now, let's not get off topic. I didn't say you have a problem understanding him. I asked: how do you understand what he said? What is the process?
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  when a person talks to me, my brain processes the information and i understand what they are saying. it is no different then when GOD talks to me.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Voila. God's message is filtered through the brain of man. You must believe in man to believe in God.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  and why did i know you were going to say that? i am sorry, but i disagree. i believe in GOD, therefore i believe in man. to me, the fact that man exists only shows me GODs glory. man is...therefore GOD is.
  look, we can continue going around in circles til the sky rolls up and we face GOD in truth...you perceive your world one way while i perceive it my way and we two shall never agree while we live. i simply cant see your point and obviously you cant see mine. lets move on to more productive conversations shall we, and quit wasting our time going in useless circles.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Because you know it's true. Sure, I can see your point. Emotionally you can say "I believe in man because I believe in God." But logically, you have made my argument for me. It's all up there in black and white, whether you want to accept it or not. You can have the last word if you want.
  
  That's all folks!
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, that makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, this makes no sense at all...
  
  "i believe in GOD, therefore i believe in man. to me, the fact that man exists only shows me GODs glory. man is...therefore GOD is."
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now, you are very intelligent, and have an analytic mind. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with your on-line persona, but you are not going to convince people to discard their beliefs by presenting your strong arguments. As a matter of fact, somewhere in Isaiah, God challenges all comers to bring their strong arguments. If they are against God, they can't stand.
  
  I have had an epiphany. I have had an experience with God. Of course, I had heard of Jesus. I rejected his followers claims of who he was. I knew the bible a little, but like most, didn't grasp the reality of the compilation of thousands of years of books in the collection. In Revelation, Jesus is quoted as saying something like, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock, whosoever hears my voice, and opens, I will come in and sup with him and him with me." Jesus won't kick down the door.
  
  When I opened that door . . . for whatever reason . . . under whatever circumstances, I found the saying to be true. I hadn't eaten for a few days. I found a peace and the strength to cook a fine meal. I supped with him. I soon doubted my experience. I supposed it was a psychological safety valve to ensure self-preservation. It was no use . . . he wouldn't let me forget his love. The bible says that God has a name that only he knows. That is the name I want to call him by.
  
  Well, now I know Jesus. Who are you? What do you want?
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh for god sake believing in god doesn't take an epiphany or anything like that faith comes through knowledge that it. No wonder atheists think we are illogical idiots...
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but no one is going to swallow that nonsense that at three years old, you had the intellectual capacity to recognize what was going around you.
  
  Yes, you conjured up the whole story, obviously. One would have to be completely brain dead to believe it.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Before you demean another's intellectual capacity, demonstrate some of your own. You have proven to be a drive by quipper with nothing to contribute but a snide remark and an e-mail face.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Perhaps, it IS their intellectual capacity that is demeaning.
  
  Funny how easy it was to show you saying one thing and then the opposite, which was not a snide remark, but evidence YOU created yourself.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Give it up lady, you can't hang. Find another avatar. Write about pancakes and sell maple syrup. It will be a better fit.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Certainly, those can be viewed as snide remarks, Mr. Kettle.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bingo! I have an unsolicited, uncanny gift of meeting people on their own level.
  
  That's not all I do. Your repertoire is limited. Read some of my work instead of forum masturbating all the time. I would love to hear what you really have to say about any other subject.
  
  Are you a sock puppet? Why? That "Mr. Kettle" remark is a dead give away. You are a lady, men don't talk that way.
  
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Like your hub on the flood?
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah! Did you like the Maricopa legend? Or, did you go in as a flood cynic. The real point of the Hub was to spotlight the Maricopa Legend and mention Ted DeGrazzia, who I first heard the legend from. The one on Aqua Therapy seems more your speed. You have never seen investigative reporting like the one on how regional banks are being gobbled up by the FDIC, The Treasury Department, the Fed and Deutsche Bank.
  
  You don't have any to reference.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you are right WD Curry...i think ATM's only goal in hubpages is to stir the pot as some say, here in the religious forums. people like him get a huge kick out of arguing with believers, even though they despise "having GOD forced on them"...i would think if they didnt like hearing about GOD so much they would simply stay out of conversations about HIM. i certainly dont see any positive or even useful content from him. so i cant really see how he contributes to hubpages.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is wonderful. If I don't like having your religion forced upon me, I should just shut up and go away because anything I say about that is not "positive or even useful" within the zealotry of the believers world.
  
  Classic religious hatred and intolerance. Thank you for showing the true nature of your faith.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  One need not be a cynic to understand that hub is pure garbage.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Garbage? The Maricopa do have a legend of a great flood, and the people turning to stone on Superstion Mountain. They are a peaceful gregarious tribe to this day. Ted De Grazzia is an Apache artist I know from Arizona. I love his work, and his life has been an inspiration to me.
  
  The "proof positive" in the title is what is called "the hook" to reel the reader in. If you read the article, you will realize that it proves nothing more than the Maricopa have a beautiful legend. It was lost on you because you are an ignorant fool who doesn't know squat about literature.
  
  Thanks for the plug, mam.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, you felt the need to lie about the contents of your hub just to get people to read it?
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Like I said . . . you don't know squat about writing.
  
  Listen, sister A Troubled Man. As much as I enjoy letting you make a fool of yourself, I am getting busy with my art in the real world. You will not be seeing me around for awhile. I have bigger fish to fry.
  
  Meanwhile, I encourage you to go beyond your role as an EarnestHub wanna-be and do some writing. Otherwise, your presence here is meaningless. It can be fun playing games with you, but it is a simple yo-yo game that doesn't really interest anyone. I have lost interest in you altogether. I suggest you find a new avatar that represents your purpose as a writer or artist. This one is ugly in every way. If, for some twisted reason, you refuse to give up your lost cause . . . at least put a hub up now and then. Even a sock puppet should keep up appearances.
  
  You can have the last word with one of your inane, redundant comments if you wish, but I will never see it. God bless you, sister . . . C-Ya
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'll take that as a compliment.
  
  It's too bad he didn't tell me how he really feels. I guess we'll never know.
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  Spartan Trainingposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  whom was that who said...before the cock crows three time you will have denied me...
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  AKA Winstonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  (if they found proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that CHRIST was never risen...i would still believe GOD over man.)
  
  tlmcgaa,
  
  Wow. I doubt even god is this closedminded to new facts.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i am not closeminded. GOD exists whether man wants to accept that FACT or not. there is nothing in this world that can cause me to doubt because there is to much evidence of HIM in my life. i am i suppose close minded to lies. satan works unceasingly to deceive mankind. he often couches nuggets of truth in his lies in order to make them believable. when i am surrounded by lies, i need only to look at my life to know GOD exists and anything to the contrary is a lie.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yup, I really love it when believers contradict themselves.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  whatever. you give atheists a bad name. i know many non believers and am good friends with them, and even they would say that about you.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  AKA Winstonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  (i am not closeminded. GOD exists.,,)
  
  tlmcgaa70,
  
  O.K., you are not closedminded - you are simply right. Thanks for clearing that up.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  anytime...glad i could help....o.0
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's great that you haven't stopped thinking Kate.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! While the first two comments show an incredible denial of reality, the last one is interesting in that Jesus has never been shown to exist in any way, shape or form other than the Bible, yet the poster wants to see Jesus' dead body and other such hard evidences "beyond a shadow of a doubt" in order to stop believing.
  
  That's the funniest one yet.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you are either so close minded you refuse to accept any evidence unless it supports your theory or you simply do not keep up with events...
  
  http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 … -11.0.html
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! That was a faked forgery and those who perpetrated it have been on trial for years and will soon be sentenced for their actions.
  
  Closed minded, indeed.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You really need to research things before you write anything, for example there is far more evidence for jesus's existence than there is for man evolving from apes it's just a fact. Stop making silly assertions just because you wrote 'did Jesus exist' into google try getting real information for your arguments
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Men didn't evolve from apes. Research indeed.
  
  Found "The Bible" but that's the only source for Jesus existence.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know they didn't, thanks
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then, why did you say they did?
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You do know the theory of evolution right? They evolved from a common ancestor and that common ancestor evolved from an ape ergo we evolved from an ape
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is entirely false. Our common ancestors did not evolve from an ape.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  oh?
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  if we didnt evolve from another primate then please do tell what the theory of our origin is?
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  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Origin is now, if one chooses to think we came from some distant past, well then that is their choice.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html
  
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A troubled man that link is telling you that we come from apes too whats your point? the theory of evolution says we are part of the ape family...make sense please...
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We are part of the primate family now, but we did not evolve from monkeys or apes. Monkeys, apes and humans all evolved from common ancestors.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Haha duh ok in that case we evolved from one living cell... Your so pedantic
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is a ridiculous conclusion and is not shared by the scientific community.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ill let people read this and they can come up with their own conlcusion as to who is talking nonsense
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GoldenBirdposted 13 years ago
If a personal God exists- then He is beyond human reason. Who created that God? How can the Creator be created? Do you see any reason?

I don't see any reason. Perhaps humanity will never find the answer to that question. Live your life to the fullest, be happy, and utilize your potential. You still have a lot to do except that quest to prove your personal God. Let the rationalists run wild, they are just as precarious as your God is.

There can be, however, another type of God: which is Reality.
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BfoBarneyposted 13 years ago
I have never really believed in a 'God', instead I only believe in the morals that I find benificial to the human race. I have studied many religions and I have pretty much taken all the good parts and created my very own custom one. A religion without a God.
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  GoldenBirdposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Buddha did something like that. That was still called a religion. He attempted for Nirvana. I don't know where he went after his death.
  
  ..but most interestingly: who created the Buddha?
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This is an interesting question. I have studied a little about this. One of the most informative books is a work of fiction by Herman Hesse, "Siddhartha" about Buddha's life. I don't know how a history could be more accurate in its depiction of the person or the process of his enlightenment. I think Buddha might be surprised what people have done around his teachings. They seem to worship his enlightenment rather than seek their own (in many instances). Would he approve of being an object of worship, or would he encourage us to find our own path?
  
  In my religion, the greatest thing is to love your neighbor as you love yourself. There is no exclusion clause for neighbors of other (or no) religions. That love leads to a desire to share . . . please don't misconstrue . . . please overlook my sharing inadequacies.
  
  Come over for a meal and we will watch the kids play in the yard. Who do you like in the playoff game? Do you need any help getting your car started? I have jumper cables.
  
  Do you need any help getting through your grief? I have nothing to say, but I am here.
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  GoldenBirdposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Chip. I will remember this one. What you said about Buddha is correct. He wanted his followers to think for themselves. Buddhism of today is a corrupt remnant of what the master wanted it to be.
  
  I would surely visit some day. Have your jumper cables ready.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think the same could be said of Christianity, which started in opposition to religious structure.
  
  I have misgivings about this internet, but it has opened a portal for poor folks to travel the world. I am glad to get to know you, or at least your work.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Failed.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In your case . . . I reiterate. I love you like I love my children. Sometimes correction seems harsh. The biggest failure here is your attempt at humor.
  
  If you had an original thought, it would die of loneliness.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, you want to send your children to eternal hellfire or squeeze my head?
  
  With religion, it IS harsh, in the extreme.
  
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  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have been a renunciant, an ascettic and a deout christian. I have been a Hindu a Sufi and a Buddhist. In my searches, I found that none of it matters. Not religion nor non religion. I choose to believe what I believe, because I can. I let my mind be free with the restraint of moral apptitude, as taught by the teachings of religion. I do not follow the teacher, only the aspects of the teachings which pertain to me. It has helped me reach true enlightenment. I reallized that all I had to do was let myself see it the way it is. Even without religion, life is an ever changing beauty.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Agree? Disagree? Regardless of what my beliefs are, you did an excellent job of expressing yours. God doesn't get shook by smart people thinking.
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  christianmonitorposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What is the name of your religion if you don't mind my asking and what are its principles?
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  GoldenBirdposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps it's called Humanistic Atheism. In short, Hutheism.
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  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have no religion, only a personal relationship with the God that I know. My Religion does not matter, what does matter is what people can learn from it. It does not have to be absolute, for everything changes even the truths we know to be absolute. Think of it as the transition from highschool to college. What I learned in highschool was destroyed by the knowledge gained in college. I had to learn to rethink my current situation and live in the now, not in the tomorrow or the yesterday. God is now and so am I.
  
  Does that work for anyone?
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Where did you go to high school? The knowledge I learned at KMI was a strong foundation. It wasn't destroyed . . . it was built upon.
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  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What of all the sugarcoating? In college the information I recieved was real and visceral. It made my innocent outlook change for I had never heard of such depravity and the evils of men were in every book I read. I took a class on religion and I found that no religion was without fault. The greatest attrocities in our world were commited by religious people and I had to decide where to go with the knowledge gained. I became a renunciant for a time and then a buddhist, then a sufi and a unitarian. I found that I fit in nowhere, my ideas were too far out for people to accept, so I chose to live for God, not religion.
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  Spartan Trainingposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hmmm...i think i would rather live for this or live for that...either way living for something is an escape or an avoidance of living...
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i have to say that that has got to be one of the stupidest things i ever heard. i fail to see how living for something is an avoidance or escape from living. i live for GOD and i am fulfilled. i am responsible for not just my actions but for what i say and think as well. i have a greater understanding of life and the world around me. how am i escaping or avoiding living?
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  Spartan Trainingposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  your saying that my comment is one of the stupidest things you have ever heard...actually reveals a great deal about your honesty...as well as your emotional reaction to a belief....living for god is nothing more than living for something you have imagined to be real...the suicide bomber lives for a belief in god and dies for that belief as well...it is delusional to live for god as has been demonstrated time and again by the christians the muslims the jews and any other religion...Illusionary insanity...
  
  in the amnesiac trance of belief...jews await the messiah... mesmerized in the hypnotic state of concepts...hindus await the kalki avatar...in the crystalized delusion of idea...buddhists await the maitreya buddha...in the deep chambers of fear...muslims await the imam mehdi... in the stupor of sin guilt and blame...christians await the christ...breaking the stones of babylon...belief concept idea will fall away...transformation into a new day...looking into the mirror of seeing only the face of the bright and luminous shining One...Truth rises out of the darkness...light rises out of Truth...love rises out of light...life rises out of love...being rises out of life...presence rises out of being...essence rises out of presence...vibration rises out of essence...energy rises out of vibration...action rises out of energy...karma rises out of action...evolution rises out of karma...transformation rises out of evolution...the new day rises out of transformation...
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christianmonitorposted 13 years ago
To everyone professing to be a Christian when creating or replying to arguments either for the belief or non-belief of a real God, a real Jesus and a real Holy Spirit ask yourself the simple question when answering anyone on the topic What Would Jesus Do? The way you proceed may be profound. In other words Jesus never argued about the subject. He simply knew the facts and went about His business of spreading the GOOD NEWS!
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  Spartan Trainingposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  why would you have to ask yourself what jesus would do...quite simply what would you do? honestly and authenticly and genuinely...be yourSelf...trying imitate what you imagine someone else would do is...inauthentic...following
  
  Truth is a pathless land...
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The way is narrow.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good advice! I will be turning over tables and running the rabble out of here. I will tell people straight up, no chaser. It isn't always pretty to spread the good news . . . Jesus is the "Rock of Offense".
  
  If one is "walking in Spirit", there is no need to ask what Jesus would do.
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Druid Dudeposted 13 years ago
I'm a hard case. I will stop believing when E doesn't equal MC2. If you knew the full implications of that equation, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss what you consider to be unrealistic beliefs.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What are the "full implications" of that equation since you apparently have special secret knowledge of the universe that the rest of us don't?
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Haha my thoughts exactly
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umakemesmileposted 13 years ago
Hello secularist10,
I for one do very so much believe in God. But you have to understand that God is 3 persons in one. Its the father the son and the holy spirit. The best way to put it is like an egg. It consists of 3 parts yet its one. If your asking what it would take to make me a non believer then my awnser would be... u cant take away my beliefs. I have researched many religions and i comply best with Roman chatholic. I for one believe to have a strong attatchment God. My love for God has excelled emensley. I started by asking for things. Telling him i wanted to have a stronger bond with him. And before i knew it, my bond with him had expanded. Once, i asked him for something i believed to be impossible!! I begged frlm the bottom of my heart. I some how felt like i was being herd. And the next day, the miracle came true. Religion truley is a great thing!!!!! You feel clean and protected. You have less stress for one!! Haha. I strongly encourage you to do somehjng about your lack of faith in "God". You may be surprised!! good luck!!
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Religion is a prison for many. As soon as they get a glimpse of a better more rational alternative, they run away from it.
  
  Religion is at best a neutral thing, not a good thing, as it hardens hearts (in the words of the Bible) and inhibits prosperity and moral, political and intellectual advancement.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  my belief in GOD has freed me rather than imprisoned me. to me, those "better, more rational alternatives" you speak of are not alternatives at all. they would imprison me by taking away the freedom i now possess. i am free of fear and worry. i am free of mainstream thinking. i am free from the illusions this world has on people. i live in peace and prosperity, spiritual peace and prosperity. all my needs are met. both spiritual and material. all in all i feel i have the better "deal".
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, since most people believe in God, to not believe in God would be to counter mainstream thinking.
  
  In any case, regardless of a given individual person's experiences, the evidence shows that less religion is correlated with happier, more peaceful and more prosperous societies.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  actually, i believe things mainstream christians cant accept, which is why i said mainstream. and if every human on this planet lived in accordance with GODs Laws, we would live in a utopia...however since even those who profess to believe dont even obey HIS laws, we have all manner of crime and abuse against others and very little peace...and only the powerful are prosperous and they are actually beggars in spirit.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nope. The most prosperous, peaceful societies with the lowest crime rates (such as Denmark, Japan, Germany or the Netherlands) are generally the least religious. These are the closest thing the human race has come to "utopia." While the most violent, war-torn, impoverished and unstable places have extremely religious populations (such as Afghanistan, Somalia, Nigeria or India).
  
  Regarding spirit, there is no way to measure "spirit," but in terms of happiness, the least religious societies rank very high in reported happiness and life satisfaction as well.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God is not three persons in one... That's a fable created by the catholic church, read John 14:28 the father is greater than Jesus and god has his own name read psalms 83:18 and as far as the holy spirit is concerned there is no reference saying god is the holy spirit only personification of holy spirit. Oh and the bible doesn't teach that a god of love will torture people in an eternal hellfire for that matter either he's not a phsyco it says the SMOKE of their torment will ascend forever meaning that their actions will be a precedent set and people will know that they can't get away with it.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow. You're okay with believing other verses in John, but not the ones that say Jesus was God in the flesh...?
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Such as? I got a million to prove he isn't god
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  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am God in the flesh, then again, so is every person on earth. We are the illusion of our image and vice versa. What I choose to believe, is a manisfestation of what I want to believe and so on.
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  yolanda yvetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The only God in the flesh that ever was or ever will be, is Jesus. Not me. And not you or anyone else, for God will never die but all mankind will.
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  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The fear that we are alone in this world is one that has spurned on the beliefs that we have of it. We want to believe that we were created, but we really don't know. So we cling to ideas, because we feel that without them, existence would be meaningless and so we fear letting go of it, for we would be giving up who we are. But who are we really? That question brought about many ideas of what is, all fantasy in nature. "I" am a fantasy and "I" will cease to exist, so where ever I go from here will be that of discovery.
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  yolanda yvetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, sir. We all KNOW God exists. Our spirit-man knows this. And try as it may the soul (mind, will, emotions) cannot override the truth our spirit knows of God. We know God exists and some go on to embrace this and find life starts to make sense once they connect with the One they were created for. And others push aside God, as best they can, through all kinds of reasoning that's supposed to make them feel/seem superior to the 'God-needy' and free from the laws of God, but all along...their core, the spirit-man...will not let them deny what is true...that's why some of them keep showing up on threads like these, looking for answers through such disguises as arguments and intolerance. And some people turn to all kinds of illicit lifestyles trying to fill the emptiness that only their Maker intends to fill.
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  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is all fine and good and maybe I believe in something greater than myself. What I am trying to do, is get people to see through the illusion of "I". The person that you are, not the name and not the title or the job. The real you, deep down that has no name. That is God, the spark of divinity we all have, yet don't understand.
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  yolanda yvetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I hear you, Mischeviousme.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The delusions believers embrace are funny enough, but to believe the rest of us share those fantasies and that we are denying them or turning to "illicit lifestyles" is ludicrous and absurd.
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  yolanda yvetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You left off the part where I said, "that's why some of them keep showing up on threads like these, looking for answers through such disguises as arguments and intolerance." Hint, Hint!!
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why would I want to propagate that lie?
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  All mankind will die? Mathew 5;5 Jesus was a liar then I guess oh well
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  yolanda yvetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, all mankind will die. Matthew 5:5 refers to "a new heaven and a new earth" (read Rev. 21:1). So it's obvious Jesus is no liar.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  new heavens and new earth meaning earth restored not meaning hes gonna blow this one up and make another haha read psalms 37:11 he would never destroy the earth or ALL the people in it
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DoubleScorpionposted 13 years ago
For those who claim Christianity, I think that we might find alot of folks on the Goat side of the house. I know both "Christian and Atheist" that fit both sides of this Parable.

Matthew 25:31-46

31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  At least I'm off the hook there. I believe that Jesus lived, but I agree with Peter. He was a man. Pete was there. Probably the most important thing he understood. I believe we are all of the same composition, physically and spiritually as Jesus, otherwise, to whom was he praying in Gethsemane? What would be the point of a supernatural appearrance by an all powerful being? To prove that we can never be as good? That wasn't the point at all. God exists in everything. That was the point, and that was the teaching. E=MC2 and Einstein aren't my gods...they are merely proof of the existence of a creator energy that definitely was sentient. Call it what you like, for when it was first named, there was no ear to hear it.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You left out the part where dorky Pete wanted to build Jesus and some old prophets a shelter when he saw the true Glory. I could go on . . . you don't really agree with old Bocephus. God came in person and was rejected.
  
  Fully God and fully man. Lord, please help us now.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hay, Druid Dude
  
  I don't comment to much of what you say ..cause ... you say it so well..
  And the focus is where it should be.
  
  keep doing your Thang.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was posting in general. Not to anyone in particular. SOrry if it seemed that way.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Double scorpion that doesn't mean he's going to torture people in an eternal hellfire if that's what your trying to say? I'll wait for you to reply before I tell u why in case that's not what you mean
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

====================

me ..

THAT SENTENCE caught my attention for some reason!

Punishment ... OR ... Life

Does it say what I think that it says? or is it just me?
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Seems pretty straight forward to me.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  SO ? IF we can not figure out how to behave in a society; in a happy go lucky existence ... our punishment is to be vanquished from that which we wish to destroy?
  
  seems fair to me. I shouldn't be there if I'm going to tear it up trying to excape from it ???
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  nicely put
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I guess that would depend on if you follow the "Christian" beliefs or not.
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  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Life needs direction and I guess I'd believe whatever made me happiest. I believe, that what I believe doesn't matter and that if I did believe in something, it would be the truth's that I learn in life. That is what really counts. I see it the way it supposed to be seen, with my eyes. Since I cannot believe everything I see, then I will believe what it shows it's self to be.
  
  If God exists, then when it shows it's self I will believe. Until then there is only the observation of what is, so I shall believe my observations and accept the possibillity of a God or gods.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i'll start by pointing out what god said to adam and eve he said if you eat from the tree you will die, im pretty sure that if he was going to burn them in an eternal hellfire he would have started there dont you think? also ecclesiastes 9:5 says that the dead are concious of nothing so that doesnt add up....psalms 146:4 says a similar thing as does ezekiel 18:4 and for anyone who doesnt know hell just means place of death not torture, even good people have to go to hell when they die job 14:13...even jesus spent some time in 'hell' acts 2:25-27 but god took him out of it. now according to you can anyone get out of hell once they are in it? because the bible says they can in revelation 20: 13,14 this implies that the dead are taken out of hell and also that the lake of fire is not the same as hell because hell is thrown into the lake of fire. its not nice to paint a picture of god as a sadistic phsycopathic murderer do you really wonder why people hate religion especially catholics? let go of your traditional beleifs because if you dont you will be seen as an enemy eventually.
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Seek-n-Findposted 13 years ago
What would make me stop believing in God? Probably if one of these three occurred:

1) If I died and I ceased to exist, then I would change my mind. Oh--but that wouldn't be possible because I would no longer exist. That reason's no good.

2) If God, Himself, told me that He didn't exist, then I'd believe there is no God. Oh shoot, that doesn't make sense.

3) If creation didn't reveal a Creator, and if there weren't compelling historical records that make Jesus' existence more plausible than the existence of those such as Julius Ceaser, Homer, Socrates, and Abraham Lincoln, for example, and if Jesus didn't say what He said and do what He did, including fulfilling a just about impossible statistical number of fulfilling the prophecies that He fulfilled, and if He didn't resurrect from the dead, as has been told by countless eye-witnesses (then and today) who saw Him after His death, and if my life hadn't been changed by radical encounter with God, and if I didn't see the miracles I've seen, and if the people that I prayed for didn't have amazing, life-changing testimonies, and if there was compelling evidence against God's existence, and if there was no such thing as the idea of a God or Creator and no religion existed and people didn't debate this topic more than any other, most times passionately for or against, and if I didn't see the answers to the many prayers I've prayed--well--then I guess I would change my mind. Thanks for asking! :-)
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
I cannot stop believing in the Creator God; such an obvious reality.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There it is.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not all that obvious to everyone. To some it's just as obvious that there couldn't be a creator God.
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This is true. I think that it is a shame to "dis-fellowship" or withhold friendship over the matter. We are all family, whether we realize it or not. I am a Christian, but if my car breaks down in the rain, I don't call anyone from church, I call my heathen friend. He will show up.
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  georgethegentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well said WD Curry. I know there is no god but if a person chooses to believe then that is their right and if it keeps them going then good on it!!!
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  WD Curry 111posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It might even keep me from mugging you and taking your wallet.
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  georgethegentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How much could you pawn an empty wallet for?
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  Spartan Trainingposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well you could always hope there was something in it...
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He is hidden from the naked eye; obvious to the innerself.
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  MissMelissaKposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very true. Well said.
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Dave Mathewsposted 13 years ago
There is nothing that could ever convince me that My God was not real and stop me from believing in Him.
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
I don't see any good reason for not believing in the Creator God.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Reality is not a good reason?
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novicemuseposted 13 years ago
Well, I think that God gives us hope. If I didn't believe in God or think there was anything to look forward to when I die, that I'd be enveloped in oblivion, then I'd be terrified of death. I mean, I'm not gonna lie I don't want to die either but I am assured that there is something and someone waiting for me. To many people, God means hope when everything is collapsing. But I'm not going to tell anyone what to believe in, because force-feeding a belief down someone's throat only causes resentment. If someone's going to believe in God I think it should come from within themselves, true belief. And to answer your question, it would take a miracle for me not to believe in God... but then I would only believe in him more haha
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  Spartan Trainingposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Didn't 'hope' come out of Pandora's box ? The seven evils came out and then 'hope'...I wonder what 'hope' was doing in a box of evil?
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  novicemuseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hope was there as a backup in case it should ever be open. Evil was already lurking if you consider disobedience in opening the box. Hope was a safety net so we all wouldn't fall, but be able to get back up.
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ChaplinSpeaksposted 13 years ago
It would have to take something greater than God, but there is not anything greater than God, so round and round I go!
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McQueen3486posted 13 years ago
Well, I don't really believe..so it wouldn't be very difficult.
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AshtonFireflyposted 13 years ago
I've known alot of people who stop believing in God. My sister is one of them.

Typically, it's because something happens in their life which logically contradicts that which they believed about God (that God is good, etc.)

For me...I don't know. I'm not sure what I believe, so...yeah.
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  Spartan Trainingposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is clear that you are seeking through belief in your god, which is a projection of your own hope, your own fear, which is something that is invented by the mind, or is bred from your own intense loneliness.
  And through your belief, you have built a religion around your god. Your god has now become your savior. In believing in god, there are several processes involved. There is not only the desire and the hope that what you believe is true, but there is also the motive behind that belief,, which is the fear of death and the escape of that fear, by way of belief in god the savior. If there is a motive, an escape from fear, a longing for comfort and security, then you will inevitably find something that will gratify you. It may be the most absurd belief, but as long as it is satisfactory and completely comforting, however ridiculous the illusion might be, you will cling to it. Just as the suicide bomber clings to his belief in god and martyrdom.. You cling to your belief in god...
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  MissMelissaKposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's a shame. You sound so cold and methodical. Your God sounds like a mechanical robot. I'm not afraid to die and I believe in God. I embrace death because it's inevitable that we will all die. I believe in God because I love him and all that he stands for. I love his Word. His message is true. I love his people. I love him so much. I have read the Bible many many times and there is nothing "ridiculous" in it. Christians have struggles. We aren't wrapped up in a bubble of endless comfort. lol Wouldn't that be the life? You make Christians out to be pinheads. We are human. We love and hate just like everybody else, BUT we have a saviour who cares for us, who died on the cross for us. How awesome is he that he would give his only son for us wretched sinners? God is amazing! God's love casts out fear. I choose to believe in God because I know his way is right and its definately not out of lonliness. It's the opposite. To ignore him would make me a fool. I think true lonliness comes from not knowing who God really is. I like how you use the word "cling" too as if a believer were just a shaking cat clinging to a telephone pole. That's absurd and funny at the same time. lol I pray that one day God opens your eyes to his true message of love. When you have a moment, please read the Chapter Ecclesiastes in the Bible as it discusses what it means to have a life apart from God.
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  AKA Winstonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  (I have read the Bible many many times and there is nothing "ridiculous" in it.)
  
  MissMelissaK,
  
  I do not doubt you have read the bible in a devotional manner, as is the case with most of us. We start at the first of a chapter and read through that chapter front-to-back before moving to the next.
  
  But have you ever done a study of the bible? By this, for example, I mean for you to take two of the gospels that relate the same story and make a side-by-side comparison, for example, the narrative of the birth of Jesus in Luke compared with Matthew, or compare the resurrection narratives in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
  
  What you will find is that the stories do not match in details. Add that to the fact that these books were written at different times in different parts of the world by different unknown authors and you have a case that each author is simply retelling a legend (much like urban legends are passed along) that changes with each storyteller and retelling.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Einstein most experts in this field agree that Jesus existed they also would be the first to point out your silly assertion that the gospels don't match up...they do, the bible has undergone a rigorous look through by all types of people and it has always come out the stronger for it. Remember the dead sea scrolls? That confirmed the bibles authenticity beyond doubt
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Einstein? Haha winston I meant dam this iPhone!
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  Spartan Trainingposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you are captured by your own beliefs... I am strong enough and confident enough to put aside any and all beliefs and perspectives, philosophy and religious story and stand totally alone, completely independent of all that comes through the mind that believes, your weakness is the fact of your belief being false or true....your god is still mad about what was done to his boy, and your still have the poor man hanging from the cross of your own betrayal through a belief in something you know nothing about...
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  if you are completely independent in your thoughts then you only have your own brain to go by and unless you're a complete genius then that means you have a very narrow view of the world.
  having a belief in something and sticking to it is far harder than coming out with your own ideas all the time because people are very self centered, i promise you coming out with your own views is much easier to do so i dont think that believing is a weakness on my part at all.
  
  my god is not mad about what was done to his "boy" at all he knew it would happen years before it did happen it is the main premise of the bible...i dont hang him on a cross at all because i know he didnt die on a cross.
  ill just ignore your last comment....
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Itzamnaposted 13 years ago
t seems most of you who say you would never stop believing in god, base your arguments off of irrationality and subjectivity. and a lot you use a rhetoric filled with logical fallacy.

I would like to put this into perspective using cause and effect.

Cause: you and every living being has a will to survive and thus a fear of death

Effect: as beings capable of cognation, your brain has coping mechanisms for survival that give you the ability to override fear. Thus it creates a sense of security by believing that there is something greater than you which takes care of you, and you will never die and you will continue to live in some other magical realm of existence.

However, the only evidence of a god existing comes from religious texts. The only evidence for these texts to be true is that this stated god says its true. This is known as circular logic. It is one claim being based on another claim that is being based on the previous claim being true. An argument using a logical fallacy is not a creditable argument

For those of you who claim that god revealed himself to you, this is not so. God coming from "within you" is actually not god; it is chemical reactions coming from "within you". Your brain is composed chemical matter. Some of these chemicals are known to be entheogenic, which means that they produce a god like euphoria or religious experience. One of the most profound of these chemicals is Dimethyltryptamine or DMT, which is released when you dream and when you die. Religious and non-religious people alike witness the same near-death experiences (i.e. the light at the end of the tunnel) because DMT is released in large amounts when you die. Some shamanistic religions use entheogenic drugs to induce spiritual visions. All the thoughts and emotions in your brain are products of chemical processes due to what you are present perceiving.

What i am trying to say is that it is irrational for you to base your beliefs and behavior off of subjective thoughts and emotions.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is much more irrational to believe that something came from nothing.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed, but that's exactly what believers believe, that God created something from nothing. Seems rather silly to believe in magic.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nope. We believe that God just always has existed, does exist, and will exist. He may have created the heaven and earth from "nothing" (I dunno, 'cause the Bible isn't clear about that), but He created the first human from the dust of the earth. And indeed when people question creation, I think what they're mostly questioning is how humans came into being. Because they cannot answer the question of how God came into being.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That doesn't matter at all, even if makes no sense, it is irrelevant.
  
  Ah, so you don't know and the Bible doesn't explain it. Interestingly enough, scientists don't really know, either but are working on finding the answer. Until then, it isn't really honest for believers to start making false claims to defend their religion.
  
  Neither can you or any other believer. You just believe he always existed, but you don't really know.
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  Insane Mundaneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, your in the same boat as the believers, and obviously so. With that being said, why even bother wasting your time trying to defend your atheist religion. Talking about one easy target, you are. If I was a troll, I'd be all over you via your contradictions; ha! Just a tidbit of advice, take it or leave it: If i were you, and that confused & muddled, I'd lay off both science and religion and go fetch a life for whole minute, think about it, dream for a few, gather your thoughts, and come back as a "grown up." Just saying... Now, it's your turn to provide your commentary by way of your unfortunate, but common, representation of utter defilement for mankind...
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i think this makes it pretty clear things were made of nothing.....
  
  Hebrews 11
  King James Version (KJV)
  Hebrews 11
  
  1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
  
  2For by it the elders obtained a good report.
  
  3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your Misinterpreting that scripture by the way it's talking about a definition of faith it's not a scientific explanation lol
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What your not getting is that unless it was a higher intelligence it would be magic just because you say it wasn't god doesn't make it any less mystical....
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  AKA Winstonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  (It is much more irrational to believe that something came from nothing.)
  
  I agree, Brenda. Creatio ex nihilo is a dumb assertion.
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  Itzamnaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  yeah there is still a lot we don't know about reality. But following the theory of Causation everything has to come from something or some event prior to its existence, even God. And there is no way God could have created itself. That would be a paradox. Yeah its possible that at some point there could of been nothing, but as of now there's no way to fully comprehend that, all we know is that there is now matter. But to accredit all of existence to a god who just somehow made a everything appear all at once is just silly.
  
  Science at least makes an attempt to understand what chain of events have happened in the past that have aloud us into existence in the present day.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i certainly dont believe that god made everything just appear and i believe a lot of sciences observations as to how things did occur however i do have to laugh when they try to attribute it all to coincidences and they say things like "oh...but if we werent here then we wouldnt be here to think about how we got here in the first place it doesnt mean a god did it"....good answer....
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cause: you're talking sh!t Effect: you sound silly to anyone with half a brain. There is a lot of evidence for a god, people far more intelligent than you or me believe in one having said that the same is for atheism and that's why believing in god or not is not a scientific question, people just try to make it one
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  Itzamnaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  and what is that evidence?
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you have probably heard people say it a million times but unless you actually take the time to look yourself you wont understand the evidence, which is in creation meaning the animals the planet the universe for example when i look at a Siberian wolf and see how jaw droppingly beautiful the animal is i dont attribute that to a chance event my logical brain tells me that it must have been created and when i look at all the cycles on the planet which is essential for life such as the water cycle, the seasons, the fact that if days where a bit longer than they are the world would fry and if they where a bit faster the world would freeze i say there must have been an engineer to have made that perfectly correct. if you where to dig up a watch from the ground you wouldnt say nature made it you would correctly think that someone made it no matter how long it had been there. Basically the fact that everything is "just right" is the evidence for a god because everything is made in logical and orderly way which requires intelligence dont forget the theory of evolution has only been around for a very short time and already it is beggining to lose steam, they used to believe that everything happened slowly however now they believe in the big bang and the cambrian explosion which in david attenborough's words nobody knows how life just appeared practically from nowhere.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, that isn't the logical brain telling you that, it is imaginative guesswork based on being uninformed and a beleiver.
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  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The big bang is now. Bang! there it is, another moment.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A troubled man do you EVER back up what you say? Normally I Wundt say this about anyone no matter what their belief is but you are an idiot haha what's your agenda anyway all way through this forum you have just come out with nonsensical derogatory comments... Your like Richard dawkins's idiotic brother
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  Itzamnaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ("you have probably heard people say it a million times but unless you actually take the time to look yourself you wont understand the evidence")
  
  Yeah i have heard that before and i knew you would say something like this. What you're saying is that you have to make yourself believe. You have to go around looking for EVIDENCE TO SOMETHING THAT YOU ALREADY BELIEVE IN. Of your course your mind will find a way to believe what it wants to believe, to make itself happy.
  
  ("Siberian wolf and see how jaw droppingly beautiful the animal is i dont attribute that to a chance event my logical brain tells me that it must have been created")
  
  Just because things are is complex does not mean they should be attributed to mysticism. This is not just chance, billions of years of gene mutation and natural selection are behind the beauty of that wolf. Understanding how things came to be just makes the beauty of them even more beautiful.
  
  ("the cycles on the planet which is essential for life such as the water cycle, the seasons, the fact that if days where a bit longer than they are the world would fry and if they where a bit faster the world would freeze i say there must have been an engineer to have made that perfectly correct.")
  
  This is just chance, but i likely chance. These condition are because of our distance from the sun. We're lucky, but look at the probabilities of this. There are at least 160 billion planets in the Milky Way galaxy that are orbiting a star. Out of these there are approximately 500 million planets in goldilocks zones, which means that they are in the right distance to a star to support life. This is just within our own galaxy!!! Scientist estimate that there is roughly 100 to 500 billion galaxies in the universe, each having 100s of billions of stars, so the possibility of there being other planets that have evolved intelligent life on them is highly, highly likely.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mutation is a chance event in case u didn't know, and yeah we're so lucky that we are positioned perfectly just like when the universe expanded and the whole of the universe expanded within 20 minutes and oh what do you know it slowed down at just the perfect time before it came back on itself...man what a coincidence
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  AKA Winstonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  (we are positioned perfectly)
  
  Dannytaylor02,
  
  You have been reading too much Creationist propaganda and accepting it as factual. Your statements in your post show this to be the case.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  so find something that tells me were not positioned perfectly then and im not a creationist those guys are even more deluded than neo dawinists
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  AKA Winstonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dannytaylor02,
  
  Positioned perfectly for what? Positioned perfectly for life, as we know it today, to be sustainable? This was not the primordial environment. The original environment would kill most living organisms that are alive today. .
  
  So what is the claim of perfection?
  
  And although mutations are random, they occur regularly within populations, and at a rate that can is known and can be utilized to determine probabilities of occurrences.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm talking about the alignment of the planets mate which has always been this way so it hasn't changed, mutations are almost always bad so to base an idea on that seems very unscientific and even when mutations do occur our genetic code doesn't let it go past a certain point, in other words our genetics stop us from evolving too much ensuring that a dog will always be a dog and a human will always be human.
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  MissMelissaKposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So according to what you're saying, everything is dependent on chemicals in the brain. So does this mean that love doesn't exist either? We can't SEE love but we certainly feel it. And if I hate someone is that something I INVENTED in my brain with a chemical too? Is everything due to some chemical response? Are feelings nothing more than chemical reactions? Have we stripped every layer of emotion from our being because we cannot see them? Are we mere robots that only take things on face value? If believing in God is irrational because you can't see him, then it would be irrational for you to have any feelings at all because you can't see them? If people follow your path then there is no spiritual life and there are no feelings. Are you saying feelings are simply figments of our imagination since we can't see them?
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  well...the fact is things like love are chemical haha but that doesnt mean to say that these chemicals could fuse together on their own to form the chemical reaction we call love...we are just physical creatures as the bible tells us and when we die we just go back to the ground...everyone knows the famous scripture for dust you are and dust you shall return. its amazing to think that anyone living in those days could possibly have that information though when science has only recently been able to prove it...the problem with this whole argument is that both sides are generally wrong because they are so dogmatic about their beliefs and not willing to change them....yes there is a god...but also yes he made us purely physical, we are a physical representation of god as we where made in his image, we are NOT spirit creatures but we can be affected by spirit i dont know why people cant seem to see that boh arguments have very good points...they just keep saying "no totally wrong!" we are all humans and wether you like to believe it or not we all have pretty much the same level of thinking ability so if we are all as smart as eachover how can you say one side is completely wrong? it doesnt make sense
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  if you will notice, nowhere in the bible does it say GOD created the animals then breathed life into them and they became a living soul. it only says that about man. man is made in the image of GOD because GOD gave man a living soul...just as HE HIMSELF is a living soul. when you compare man and animals, there is not much difference...we all love, hate, grieve, rejoice, reason, even think in the abstract. what sets us apart from animals is our soul. GOD experiences emotions yet does not have a physical body, so if HIS emotions are not some chemical reaction, i fail to believe ours are.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well they are I'm afraid and in response to our soul not dying please read Ezekiel 18:4 so the soul can die you know why it can? Because soul is just another name for body sorry your religion has been lying to you
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  this is not true....only GOD can destroy the soul, not man. man can only kill the physical body.
  
  Matthew 10:28
  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
  
  if the body and soul are the same thing, it would render the above passage meaningless. on judgement day our souls go to eternal damnation or eternal life. this implies that our souls live on past the death of our physical bodies.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Look at my post a bit higher up I can't be bothered writing it again
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  its another name for body OR life so jesus never meant that we had an eternal spirit, but if someone did kill us we wouldnt be dead forever as he would just ressurect us again....that is why he ressurected lazarus and then said do not marvel at this because there will be a time when all will hear his voice and they will raise out of the memorial tomb (thats not an exact translation but thats what it says) thats why jesus says in matthew 5:5 that the meek will inherit the earth and again in psalms 37:11which also mentions that the earth will always be here...as for hellfire i'll start by pointing out tht when adam and eve rebelled against god he said you will positively die, he never said that he will burn them in an eternal hell forever...dont you think that would be important information? also when people die the bible teaches that they cant feel anything or even that they are concious of anything ecclesiastes 9:5,10 a similar thing is said in psalms 146:4 and i have already shown you ezekiel 18:4 but its also important to look at. Hell or Sheol in the bible simply means the world of the dead or the grave, even good people go to 'hell' job 14:13 even jesus spent some time in 'hell' acts 2:25,27 but god took him out. now according to your belief can anyone who has entered into hell come back out of it ever? the bible says that they can in revelation 20:13,14 notice also that hell is not the same place as the lake of fire because as you can see from that scripture hell is thrown into the lake of fire.
  now why would anyone want to paint a picture of god as being a sadistic phsycotic murderer? it doesnt make sense and the bible doesnt support such a grim view of what you call in the same breath a 'god of love'. you need to let go of your traditional beliefs because they are just plain wrong on all levels.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you are taking scripture out of context and that gives it a false meaning. when i died, i did not become unconscious and know nothing...i sat on the lap of CHRIST as HE told me it was not my time and i had to return. if i did not have a spirit separate from my body, that would not have happened. once my body died that would have been it.
  look in Revelation 20
  
  4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
  
  5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
  
  "and i saw the SOULS of them that were beheaded for the witness......." their physical bodies died upon being beheaded whilst their eternal SOULS continued to live on.
  
  the earth that the meek shall inherit is the new earth for the old one shall have passed away.
  
  adam and eve were immortal until they rebelled, GOD told them they would die, meaning they had become mortal.
  
  all people die and go to their graves, but all will be raised again on judgement day to go to their punishments or rewards and death and hell will be destroyed...there will be no more death so no need for hell.
  
  6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
  
  when CHRIST was crucified and was again risen, HE overcame death, and those who believe in HIM will also overcome death...the second death.
  
  GOD IS who HE IS. people cannot accept HIM as HE is so they cry murderer when they should be falling prostrate before HIM....GOD is our maker and our master. HE alone has the right to do as HE pleases without answering to us for it...HE alone has the right to judge us. HE has the right to wipe us all out and be done with the lot of us...but instead HE chooses to give us the gift of salvation through HIS Son CHRIST, that any who accept CHRIST and live in obedience might have life eternal, as things were meant to be for us. people cant seem to get it through their heads that GOD is GOD and all HE does is righteous. people judge GOD, setting themselves up as higher than HIM. they will learn better in the end.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ok...so what do you suppose the ressurection is? why would our soul need to be ressurected if it doesnt die? its talking about our physical body.......also dont give me that nonsense about you going to heaven and coming back, your not a prophet and god wouldnt use a woman on hubpages to do his bidding hehe, also god is NOT just going to blow up this earth and then make another one new earth and new heavens means earth restored to the way it was....its at least good to see that you dont advocate a hellfire but your still twisting scripture and your not completely wrong about people going to heaven however only a minority of people go to heaven not all people...your almost there but not quite there yet do a bit more bible studying and you'll be fine
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  1 Corinthians 15:51-55
  King James Version (KJV)
  51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
  
  52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
  
  53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
  
  54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
  
  55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
  
  the body dies...our spiritual self will be our new bodies, a spiritual body.
  
  Revelation 21:1-3
  King James Version (KJV)
  Revelation 21
  
  1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
  
  2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
  
  3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
  
  Revelation 20:11 KJV
  11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
  
  i do not claim to be a prophet, though it is arrogant of you to decide whom GOD might use or not use. GOD uses whom HE will, male, female, child, old one. You are not me, so you cannot say what i experienced or did not experience. the lake of fire and brimstone sounds pretty much like hellfire to me, so i guess i do advocate it. i am not the one who twists scripture...and i am not the one who ignores a great portion of the bible because they dont like what it says.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  first of all read revelation 1:1 it is NOT literal...and yes like i said i do agree that SOME people go to heaven but certainly not all people and it tells us the number of people going to heaven in revelation 7:4
  
  as far as twisting the scriptures are concerned every scripture i showed you is very clear on the matter and straight to the point however the ones you showed me are very vague and could mean a number of things...also sorry i didnt mean offense it was supposed to be a joke i forgot that people cant READ sarcasm hehe...be very careful with revelation because if you beleive there is a god and that the bible is his word he warns us against adding or taking away the meaning of this book revelation 22:18,19
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  the only reason the scripture i have provided appears vague to you is because you have no understanding of scripture. you said in an earlier post to someone else that GOD would not destroy this earth and all the people on it...yet that is exactly what HE is going to do. i guess you pick out the scripture you dont like and then create for it a new meaning or comfort yourself with "it isnt meant to be take literal". you do not even show reverence to GOD by capitalizing HIS name. there are not "only" the 144 thousand going to heaven...those were a very special group of people...you are forgetting the multitude that stood before the throne that had "come out of great tribulation". how can you ever hope to understand GODs Word if you refuse to accept HIM...all of HIM?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What a horrible god. It seems He's never heard of the saying, 'live and let live'
  
  Instead, he must satisfy his petty and maniacal ego by destroying everything.
  
  Why do Gods act exactly like despots? Or, is it the other way round?
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i forgot to mention ecclesiastes 1:4 and psalms 104:5 which clearly tell us that the earth is NEVER going to be destroyed and i'll repeat if this is the case then new heavens and new earth clearly mean earth renewed and heaven renewed....no more demons in heaven and no more wicked people on earth thats what it means why would he destroy the physical earth because of the people in it? obviously he means he will destroy the wicked ones and the same goes for heaven he isnt going to DESTROY heaven rather the wicked demons in it...that is the reasonable conclusion you must come to when you consider ALL of the scriptures not just one and ignore the rest, but of course you wont accept that because you cant have ANYTHING question your belief....it is possible for you to be wrong you know?
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i believe that when the bible tells us not to take it literally we shouldnt thats correct however you say that god is going to destroy the earth and EVERYONE in it? can you back this up with scripture that hes gonna destroy the earth? please do...psalms 37 repeatedly tells us that people will live on earth first in verse 11 then in verse 29 then verse 34....show me a scripture that he will DESTROY the earth please....i dont understand how you can say im twisting scripture....as for the ones who survive the great tribulation it makes no mention of them going to heaven...revelation 7:13,17...i dont show reverence to gods name?? huh? how did you come up with this conclusion do you even know gods name yourself? because you havent used it once yourself.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  notice also that it says in corinthians which you quoted it says that they will be CHANGED so they didnt have it to start with it was given to them when they died, they are part of the 144000 so they go to heaven yes but the bible doesnt say that for everyone.....you remind of 2peter 3:16 you are untaught so you twist the scriptures and notice what it says at the end there?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I love it when believers contradict themselves.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know a troubled man evolutionists do it all the time did you know there are more theories on evolution than there are evolutionists or is that yet another thing you don't know?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really?
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i see no contradictions in what i said. your problem ATM is that you like to twist words and see meanings that were never intended. your only reason for being here is to stir up trouble. as someone else said...why dont you go out and get a life. hopefully it would be a bit more productive that spending your time here.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  uhm me or a troubled man?
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ATM=A Troubled Man
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I know.
  
  I'm feeling the Christian "love" here.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Shut it a troubled man or I'll speak to the big guy upstairs and reserve a nice toasty place for you in hell! How's that for Christian love!?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly what I would expect.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ATM, you remind me of my step dad...he loved to provoke and needle me until i blew up, then say "some christian you are". he was a pro at that. you are a trouble maker. you like to trip those new to their faith. you badger and bully them until they arent sure what they believe anymore. well...i am not new to my faith. in fact, my faith is very strong now, and nothing you say or do can put a dent in it. it is possible for a person to tell you the truth about yourself without feeling anger or hate. you view it as hate because you dont like being told the truth about yourself. my suggestion is if you dont like yourself, you are the only one who can take the steps needed to improving who you are.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm neither provoking you or needling you.
  
  It is interesting how facts and reality have a tendency to make one think about their faith.
  
  And, although a believer might tend to think now and again about their faith, indoctrination fights hard to keep it there.
  
  Just keep atossin' that ole Christian love my way.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  no, i think i am done, it is difficult trying to talk to someone who cannot reason and has a low IQ to boot.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Keep slinging that Christian love my way.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You say nothing could stop you from believing what you believe but what if your belief contradicts the bible?
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  then i would be just like a great many so called christians out there...wrong. but my faith and belief do not contradict the bible. GOD HIMSELF has taught me what i believe and given me my faith. i do not twist scripture to fit in with my beliefs. i do not pick and choose which parts of the bible i will believe and which parts i wont...every last word in the KJV bible is my TRUTH.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  so you agree that in the future people will live on earth psalms 37:11?
  any you believe that god has a name? psalms 83:11
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i believe there will be a new heaven and a new earth and those who wait on The LORD, those who are meek shall inherit the new earth, yes....as for your second question, i dont see what that verse you gave has to do with GODs name...but GOD does have a name...
  
  Exodus 3:14
  And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  psa;ms 83:18 i meant sorry hehe and when revelation talks about new heavens and new earth what do you think that means? thats he's gonna blow up the earth and make a new one as well as destroying the heavens and making a new 1?
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McQueen3486posted 13 years ago
It is?
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McQueen3486posted 13 years ago
That's just the god obsessed persona in you.
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Druid Dudeposted 13 years ago
A new earth and a NEW HEAVEN. Not just mankind ceases to be. But, in truth, all that truly exists is what people call God. That is all that exists, and we exist within God. We have never been external to God. In short, we are implemental to the consciousness of all things, owe our arriving and our departing to this entity. And Man? Man is just in denial, creating a conflict of immense proportions to the psyche of the cosmic , divine consciousness. Dad was a schizophrenic, too!
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  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now we're getting somewhere.
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TENKAYposted 13 years ago
There was a time when I did stop believing in Him. It was the loneliest stage of my life. I am happy and at peace now, I got my faith back. God is present. He exists. I am a very tiny part of Him as a cell is a part of my body. As what Druid Dude wrote "we exist within God. We have never been external to God". Peace to all.
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MissMelissaKposted 13 years ago
I hear you Tenkay. I love what you just said. Thank you. I was you. I was that person that you just described. I stripped myself in one small window of time in believing in God. I believed I didn't need him. I thought how could he exist when those who didn't follow him and mocked him were blessed and those very people were having what seemed like fun, so why should I believe in God? Why should I believe in God with all the suffering in the world? How could he allow it? Some things are not explainable to the naked eye and it's not our place to point the finger at him. Thankfully, God is a God of mercy and love. During that whole time when I had felt I didn't need him, he never stopped loving me. He gave me wings to fly and lifted me up when I no longer had the will to live. He gave me a reason to live beyond my world and into his when I finally surrendered. God is great. Amen.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Matthew 5:44-46
  King James Version (KJV)
  44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
  
  45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
  
  46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
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TENKAYposted 13 years ago
God bless you MissMelissaK. Believing in God and knowing Him is like seeing a light at the end of a dark tunnel. I know there will be more trials to come but I fear less... darkness surrounds me but I got the Light within me pushing darkness away.

Isn't life beautiful!!! lots of hugs and love is sent your way. Peace to all.
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  MissMelissaKposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God bless you TenKay. It is very much like seeing a light at the end of a tunnel. Very true! You have to live it in order to know it.
  
  Life is beautiful. I pray your light always shines in the darkness that surrounds us. Life is one trial after another but with Jesus by our side, we know our load will be lighter. Amen.
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David Pechposted 13 years ago
Everyone believes in God in some way or another. A lot of us are just to arrogant to admit it so we hide behind our vanity which we shroud in the veil of philosophy.
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  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe in God, I know what God is to me. I am God and God is me. I am everything and only I can walk this path. You have your own path to follow and your philosophy will guide you to what ever end you so choose. Do you think philosophy only pertains to religion and spirituality? Maybe you should look the word philosophy up in a dictionary. Does your religious group have you convinced of this?
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  MissMelissaKposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You remind me so much of Samson. Please read this link. He was full of himself.
  
  Check out this link:
  
  http://www.gordonmarcy.com/2009/08/why- … potential/
  Samson’s disastrous end warns those who are gifted not to become prideful and self-sufficient because, “A man’s pride brings him low, but a man of lowly spirit gains honor” (Proverbs 29:23).
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  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This universe gave us life and that's close as I'll get to seeing God. All things are God And God is all things. When I use the word God, I mean that part of the universe which I see in my self, all things born of this universe are God or Buddha or spirit, whatever you want to call it. This universe is what we are connected to. Why else would we look up? I don't think there is a God living in the sky, other than the universe which is God, for it gave us what are and it's not imaginary. Though our brains tend to make an illusion out of reality, this is very real. We only have these moments, we shouldn't waste it on guessing.
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  MissMelissaKposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God lives inside you with the Holy Spirit. I don't think he's in the sky necessarily. I believe he's in another realm where we go once we die physically. I believe our spirit never dies. It lives on in either heaven or hell. That is my belief.
  
  I respect yours even if I don't believe it. Thank you for sharing.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The God I know can raise the dead ,heal sickness, and takes care of heaven and earth. If you are a God and this is possible to you ,what good can you do for the earth now and in the future? what do you have to offer other humans as a God ,and can you susstain your own life ,Because the real God does not die! His life span is the alpha and omega .meaning he has no beginning and no end (like a circle) when was you born?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is entirely false.
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Claire Evansposted 13 years ago
Nothing!
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MissMelissaKposted 13 years ago
Amen Sister. I loved every word you said. God bless you!
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Insane Mundaneposted 13 years ago
The realization of equality and also by simply putting a cork in it!
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Dannytaylor02posted 13 years ago
waaaa? in what way have i twisted any scripture? can you actually show me a scripture where he says he is going to destroy the earth? cause i can show you one where he says he wont so how am i not knowing the scriptures?? cmon girl make sense lol
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't read all these posts, but in case this hasn't been posted....
  2Peter 3: 10-12 specifically tells us that God is gonna destroy not only this earth, but the heavens (sky, etc.) too....
  
  :But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
  
  Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness.
  
  Looking for and hasting to the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"
  
  That sounds very literal to me.
  
  Then, a promise is reiterated in verse 13. Whether this means a literal new earth and heavens I dunno-----
  
  Verse 13:
  "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  if you read from the start of 2 peter 3 you see that it says the previous "earth" was destroyed by water in 2 peter 3:5 however the actual earth was not destroyed because we are still on that earth so....i'll let you fill in the gaps with what im about to say....please read all the scriptures i linked because they categorically deny that the earth will be destroyed and also 2 peter 3:7 says that the fire is stored up for ungodly men.....let me also note that before jesus non of the prophets of old beleived that they where going to heaven they all knew that their place was on earth....we all know the lords prayer im sure so let me just also repeat part of it let thy will take place in heaven, also upon EARTH (not a literal translation but same effect) there is too much evidence in the bible pointing towards the earth not being destroyed....god is not some pyromaniac you know
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  Insane Mundaneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Divinity + Pyromaniac - Pyrolysis = Holy maniac!
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hehe thats funny especially as im looking at your picture! scary
  
  the funny thing is they are arguing with me as if what im saying is a bad thing....gods not gonna destroy the earth...why is that a bad thing to say?
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  Insane Mundaneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not; keep preaching; just thought I'd throw in my humorous 2 cents from time to time... Cheers!
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  it is the wrong thing to say when it is a lie. i waited to see what your response to Brenda would be. i have continued this conversation hoping you would see the truth in things, but i see now that no matter what you are told and shown you reject the Truth. i will not strive over words with you any longer. this is my last answer to you danny. i pray that GOD may show you HIS Trutn someday.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Even the brainwashed can reject the Truth if that Truth wasn't brainwashed into them.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  wise words again by a troubled man....
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  thats an easy way of saying your wrong and not admiting it thanks
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  2 Timothy 2:14
  Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
  
  if it makes you feel better to believe that, feel free. i would rather obey GOD than care what others think of me. and that IS my last post to you. good bye.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't feel victimized, no one is thinking about you personally, it is your religious beliefs that are in critique, which means the religion of Christianity and the Bible are being criticized, not you.
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  Dannytaylor02posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i never said i think anything about YOU, just that your ideas are not compatible with the bible its not personal so no need to feel that way. all im saying is that if you believe that the bible is gods word then you should follow it the way it is meant to be followed...you keep saying that god might show me the TRUTH however he does that through the bible not to individual people..also in case a troubled man didnt know i was being sarcastic haha his words were not wise
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  Insane Mundaneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I realize this isn't my "discussion" or whatever, but do you, tlmcgaa70, know Hebrew or have you at least read the Torah? The reason why I ask, is because you seem to speak with the utmost confidence that YOUR interpretation is so absolute & true, that it would make a common Monk (or monkey?) grab his testicles (or whatever) and fall to the floor in sheer amazment of your divine realizations of the cosmic totality of all forms of existence. I'm dumbfounded by it all... LOL!
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Dannytaylor02posted 13 years ago
i take my hat off to secularist....let the madness begin indeed just goes to show that people have very strong views on the subject
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Darrell Robertsposted 13 years ago
I was taught that there are three aspect of God: 1) The all pervasive impersonal form 2) The God in the heart of all livning beings and 3) the God as a person. This is eastern philosphy.

I have read many of the comments from the other writers. My thoughts to you is to find a copy of Bhagava-Gita as It Is and read the book with an open mind.

After I read the book and did investigation, then I determined that there is nothing that could shake my belief.

Best wishes
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Druid Dudeposted 13 years ago
What would it take for me to stop believing in God? A miracle...or would that be an anti-miracle. God warned us about you, long before you warned us about him. If he was THAT FAR AHEAD of you...then there is nothing that could possibly happen to change my mind. I don't believe that someone nailed GOD to a piece of wood, but I do believe a man named Jesus did walk the earth and that he was crucified and that he knew what it is possible to know. If it was possible for him to know, then it is possible for you to know, and for me to know. Knowledge is power.
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Kiss andTalesposted 13 years ago
Well I must say that, that question is on time. why because many people where persecuted for there faith and still are.But first I must say IF you believe in this page if you believe in people you have never in person seen then it should be very clear that you do ( believe ) meaning that the presense of God almighty does not have to be literaly seen for you to believe in him. I think it is about accepting his views of right and wrong ! this is why people will not acknowledge who is. So you say what would it take for me to stop believing in God is like me not believing in me and you, and that we are having this conversation. the life force to keep me breathing come from him, no man gave it to me.So for me that would be impossible ! I like the the saying people who do not stand up for something can fall for anything! stand up for what is right!Stand up for him!
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  Rad Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Give your parents credit for giving you the ability to breathe.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is so true ,which means Give credit to the one who created them! which in age would be older then all humans
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  Rad Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, that would be grandparent. Learn to take credit when it's given and take blame when it's needed. If you accomplish something take credit, it you fail don't blame the devil, take blame.
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Don Crowsonposted 13 years ago
It would really be terrible to think that man is the highesrt form of life and that he is all-wise.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why?
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Look at rhe world conditions. Man is too imperfect to solve his own problems. Thousands of years, and we are not close to a solution to peace and prosperity for all.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This isn't the best argument...As it is going to be said that God has been at it alot longer than man has, and it seems he hasn't gotten it right either...
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, if you really think about it, God's people have been spreading the Gospel message, and few listen. Many times Christians a re persecuted for spreading the gospel. So the truth of how to live and prosper is available. No one listens. But the higher power has spoken.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  <shrugs>
  
  For those who are not believer types...These type of arguments don't work. One must approach them with facts and logic...And since faith can't really be based in those to things (other than for the person themselves)...It is a lost cause.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not abotu the people. It's about the God Himself. If He knows the nature of people, why would He keep trying to use people? Why doesn't He come down all the time to visit? I can assure that there'd be zero people denying His existence, though some would still rebel, but in all honesty, the idea of God written in the Bible is one who chose and still chooses to gamble with the lives of His "children" that He claims to love.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ever read the book of Exodus? the only thing having an living breathing GOD interacting with man did was cause man to do was declare to their leaders " you deal with HIM for if we do we will surely die!". it did not stop them from moaning and complaining against HIM. it certainly did not stop them from turning their backs on HIM at the first opportunity and worshiping false gods. man has been wicked and prone to do wicked deeds from the beginning. GOD gave man the right to accept or reject HIM...it is a matter of faith. you must believe with your heart, not your eyes. seeing isnt believing in this case.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Blah Blah, like I said, some people would still rebel, but NO ONE would question His existence. This "God" is still gambling with lives.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  no...HE isnt. you know, i get so sick of hearing non believers whining about GOD. about how unfair HE is. well, its just to bad. HE makes all the rules and if you dont like them, oh well!, you better get over it. they arent gonna change for you! denying HE exists isnt gonna help you escape what is to come. claiming HE is an unfair GOD wont either.you have no idea how you hurt yourselves by kicking against the bricks so to speak. you are like an injured animal who someone is attempting to take to a vet, you keep biting at them and yourself and causing them and yourself more damage and preventing yourself from getting the healing you so desperately need.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ... I respect your view. But it doesn't change anything for me, though. I don't need an "all loving" God who is selective. When I have children, I'll love them all equally. And if I had God like power, no matter how badly they wronged me or anyone else would I never sentence them to a place of eternal punishment. That is not love, it's vengeance, and I don't need a supposedly "perfect" God with a territorial complex and iffy human emotions. I doubt what you're spouting is truth. You can believe it if that fulfills you, but I certainly don't have to.
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  tlmcgaa70posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you know what...GOD IS a GOD of vengeance. "vengeance is mine, saith the Lord". GOD is a God of wrath. all through the bible it tells of this. but GOD is also a God of Love. HE does not need you. so feel free to reject HIM. this is your right. but come judgement day, when you stand before HIM, do not blame HIM for making that choice.
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  Rad Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps what you should ask yourself is why did people reject him when he supposedly showed himself as a living breathing human? Why according to the bible did all but a few not believe he was the son of God. Why? Why did so many reject him when he was alive and some many follow him today?
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  Kiss andTalesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  maybe we should ask ouselfs why do we exist in this small window of time. why not just be a seed who was never born to make and opinion about his existance. perhaps he does not need us for any thing ,he is still providing humans the sun moon and stars ,and he still provinding the rain so we can grow food and eat! true ,the earth is in bad condition but if you notice who is in power at this time MAN! so we are reaping mans decisions with help of powerful demon forces! soon to come to and end!
  it is very sad to be accussed of something you did not do,or caused! this so with the true ,God gave you life He wants to give you the paradise with only One goverment covering the intire earth , Adam and Eve had there chance now we have the hope of this promise! I give you respect that you are a living and breathing person even though I do not see you phsically ,
  and I do hear your words ! but the one that made you also hear your words! because God never changes people do !Learn the truth! read his word it has lasted longer than any man life span! for a good purpose!
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And you're only argument for this is because humans are too imperfect?
  
  The only imperfect thing in this world is humans, everything else works flawlessly without them.
  
  Preaching G/god's word is what causes problems. Live it for yourself, journey the road you're claiming to walk. Maintain your personal relationship with whatever G/god you choose.
  
  But, under no circumstances are you to include anyone else within your beliefs, especially if they are not based on reality. And, no one reserve the right to lie to anyone about anything they(or you) might or might not know about.
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  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don:
  
  You say man is too imperfect to solve his own problems. And yet man has solved countless problems, and continues to do so.
  
  Since the time of the Old Testament countless diseases have been cured or vaccinated, tremendous material wealth has been attained by billions of people, clean water, abundant food, peace and security, immense knowledge about nature and the universe, and more, have all been attained by the human race.
  
  There was interesting study that came out recently demonstrating that the world is more peaceful today than it has ever been. Despite the sensationalism of the nightly news, war and crime are nowhere near the problems that they once were. Billions of people today live peaceful, productive lives, if not perfect lives. I think man has done a pretty good job considering his flaws. So your line of reasoning seems unimpressive.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm glad you didn't say that humankind has done the best it can. Because, looking at the present state of humankind, we've a LONG way to go.
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BobMongerposted 13 years ago
About the only thing that would convince me would be a revelation from GOD!
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  schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  *like lol
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schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years ago
idk maybe if my life was perfect and I never had a bad day but that's not humanly possible.
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galleryofgraceposted 13 years ago
In answer to the original question- If someone could convince me that the entities I saw -who sent me back to earth when I almost drowned are not real- that would probably convince me to look for another answer.
Many people condemn the bible and the churches.but my argument is this. How many drunks are now sober because they went to church? How many prisoners have now reformed because they were given religion? How many wife beaters, molesters and a million other "sinners" have been healed and blessed because of the bible and church?

Would I even be writing this if it weren't for bible principles? NO i wouldn't be.
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  Kiss andTalesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  great example they found a greater reason to want to change !because of a greater meaning and purpose, The future will hold many changed people , old habits and ungodlyness will not be a part of the new system,
  people who make these changes may be aware of being new citizens after this earth is cleaned off ( Gods great coming war ) that way we will surley have paradise among each other first .
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Don Crowsonposted 13 years ago
Secularist

You are right in saying mankind has solved many of his problems. Manyu of those poroblems were solved by Christian believers. Isac Newton, for exampole, argublely the greatest scientific mind that ever existed. That is not to say non believers haven't contributed to solving problems, but Christians are the ones who establish hospitls, educational instutions and do a lot of charity work. But their work is not perfect in the sense that man can solve all of our problems.
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Declan Whitingposted 13 years ago
Believers: What would it take for you to stop believing in God?

I don't believe in God. So I'm afraid I can only answer in retrospect.

Why don't I believe in a God? I like facts and things that can be proven.

It wouldn't take allot for me to believe in god, infact I want to believe, I just can't until its proven.
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Kiss andTalesposted 13 years ago
You have understanding views and many I can relate to from my past. First I would like to say you are correct about love, but you are applying wrong doing to the we are created in his image ,for god is love ,we did create ourself with this emotion . I will get back to you when I can write better, I am on mobile device
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Kiss andTalesposted 13 years ago
Correction we did not create ourp self
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Hendrikaposted 13 years ago
For me the whole creation will have to be changed. Where did everything start? Wha but God could have started it all.
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Kiss andTalesposted 13 years ago
It has always been said the person is innocent till proven guilty! So many people condemn the true God without the true facts! of his existace and purpose and how we all fit in . With your copy of a bible follow along! if you are haveing trouble with hebrew and greek translation ,I am sure the library can help you with a bible, King James does have altered parts ,and many newer bibles , but it is okay to use, we do not speak thee 's and thou 's today! but it helpfull in some parts,

In this case we can look closely at what does the bible really teach about the true God! this will expose wrong teachings and beliefs or customs ,but it is better to work your faith and give a sacrifice of love for him under truth. then lies! He is worth alot more and he deserves better.

You can decide from info gathered , and it will shed true light of our heavenly
Father.

first there is a very important matter here we must address ,since there are many gods with names like budah and Alah! ! what is the true God's name that created all things. Lord is a title like ( lord of the rings or man and women are titles, So what do the true God want to be called ,In the king James and many other version ,show his own self-designation ,the new English bible Exodus 3:15, and 6:3,Genesis22:14,In hebrew it is spell JHVH or YHWH also found in Ezekiel48:35,Isaiah 12:2 ,and 26:4, Actually his name occurs 6,828 in the hebrew text,and the Devine name is found in the greek scriptures 237 times , truley he wants us to know his name, and yet others have tried to hide this important fact! here on hub pages we use a name to ID us ! why would God do less! Ms ATW mention why she feels the way she does about God ! And I can relate, I had many concerns too! but I was at one time not a bible reader ,and I still wanted answers, So what can happen is we can end up taking in opinions and views from others without doing our own research ,and what can happen is that we can start believing in the lies , many clergy are responsible for leading many people on the wrong path for dishonest gain! and power!.

So I will share with you the difference of truth ,and the lie!

ATW mention Hell fire and torment, Yes this in the bible but not the meaning of hell,
in the hebrew text hell spells and means Sheol and in greek is hades both words here is talking about the common grave of the dead of mankind. no where when used in the hebrew and greek form is there any tormenting happening. the bible makes it very clear that the living are conscious that they will die,but as for the dead they are consious of nothing at all, Eccl9:5,10. so there is no consious torure going on after death.

In the old english dialect you will see (hell ing) potatoes, here the potatoes did mean roasting in fire ,it simply meant to be placed in cellar or ground,

more proof is the true God's own words! found in the book Jeremiah 7:31-32-35
here it shows a valley was built up high of To'pheth ,here sons and daughters where burned in the fire ,in the valley of Hinnon

How did the true God feel about the detestible thing,
He said, I did not command this and that it had never came up in his heart.
proof the true God does not believe in torture of fire,

In the book of Revelations 20:14 it says death and hades meaning common grave will be thrown into lake of fire. total symbolic statement, how do you throw death in a lake of fire! it means in symbolic by doing away with death and graves forever ,taking this curse from humans forever and never return.

I hope this will be helpfull to you or anyone who wants to know the truth ,there are many more I can share.just ask away. I am a bible student.
over 30 years of learning what does the bible really say!

Please use your bible to look these matters up.
you will be glad you did!
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61
Kiss andTalesposted 13 years ago
correct statment potatoes where ont roasted in the fire ! I caught error of statment
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ahorsebackposted 13 years ago
O.P.-You've done well , Using the most P.C. issue to acquire comments , Let me ask you this "If you don't believe , why do you even begin to care that I do "? Okay ......Bye!
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Kiss andTalesposted 13 years ago
Did you know the oldest tree in the world is called a methuselah tree, it is 4,700 years old ,it can be found in the white mountains of california and the oldest animal a tortoise it is 175 years old and lives in Australia and is 330 pounds,God gave adam And Eve instuction at Gensesis 1-26-29 have in subjection all the animals and plants , he was to take care of them ,and continuue make earth a paradise worldwide, So this account tells us that man could live longer then any tree or animal ,had they obeyed the law of the true God not steal. But the true God did release us from this curse of death ,his pefect Son paid our release, and now we will live to be older then any tree or animal in the future. 2peter3:13. Surley God's plans has not changed for our future , we just have to ask am I good for the future!
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1. 76
  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Man cuts down tree, builds house...Man lives longer than tree...
  Man catches tortoise, makes soup...Man lives longer than tortoise...
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  61
  Kiss andTalesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is truth that man has done these things to the animals and plants thank you for bringing that sad thouht out ,but the good thought is like a good landlord many will loose this home called earth, because
  you yourself said it! Look what man has done to the earth ,there will be new citizens ,that will work with God's purpose he never abandon.
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SparrowMinistriesposted 13 years ago
I don't believe I could now stop believing in God. Many people claim to know Christ, but the Bible says that some people are false. "They went out from us because they were not of us." The Bible says that as true Christians we are marked in Him with the promised Holy Spirit, a deposit guaranteeing our redemption. I believe every person reaches a point of no return in their lives, where they either blaspheme the Holy Spirit and seal their fate forever, or they give their lives to God as a bondslave, which means that you no longer have the option of going free. God sets up permanent residence in you, and He says, "Never will I leave you, never will I forsake you." Not every Christian believes this. Some think you can walk away from God. I don't want to argue the point wih anyone, and I won't. That is just what I believe. I respect other's rights to believe differently. I have given my free will over my eternal destination to God and I cannot take it back. So believing isn't just a mental assent, it is placing your eternal destination in the hands of Almighty God. It's up to Him, not me.
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rrhistorianposted 12 years ago
CAN YOU PROVE THERE IS NO GOD?

IF NOT, THEN DON"T ASK SUCH FOOLISH QUESTIONS.
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