Why do so many horrible things happen in the world? Is it the work of the devil? Or is it just mankind?
The devilish mankind. "Karma" won't let them go happily.
But then why does mankind trap them, but the the devil does exist
To give returns. But, not all get trapped.
The devil is a cheap baby sitter for the masses, because childish people do not want to burn in hell.
So, who's fault is it when bad thing happen?
The Devil made me do it.
or someone else
I would pick me to be at fault by far, most of the time, then just confront the problem and adjust the mistake rather than regret sins. In return,happiness here on earth and in the afterlife, we all must wait and see.
Far too many sins and devils for anyone to handle anyways.
Lock them up, along with little Hitler GW Bush too
none were locked up, where do the evil ones go after they die?
Their hell on earth and toward other is not enough? No sense in regetting the pass, lets not regret the present,
LOCK EM UP We don't want to kill them or we are almost as bad as they are, just don't allow them to harm millions of others.
Hitler was insane so is not really relevant. Anything that is wrong is the fault of the person that does it - as there is no god, there is no devil - but unfortunately there is greed and ignorance.
Yeah, and Clinton! Osama bin Ladin is his fault, after all!
Acting on the desires I feel, kind of negates the existence of a devil. Does it not?
I wrote a hub- "Why Is World Peace Not Happening"? It should give you a glimpse of what you asked.
This is your title of your thread and here is my answer: The devil is nothing more than a concept created by humankind. Thus, it is man-made. Why? Power, Control and to Instill fear in people. Those who claim that a devil actually exists are only perpetuating forth the ideology of religion.
But then what about the reality of the leaders of the countries who simply kill those who do not follow orders, or those who protest? That has been happening recently all over the world
If that doesn't show you the "power and control" factors, then I don't know what would.
Yep it has because people are waking up to realize and grow in consciousness that the truth is none of what religion talks about with regards to mythology has any basis in truth.
What about exorcisms? Christians are not the only ones who do them.
I answered that question in my previous post. It's just a deception by the Church. It has the power which governments are not going to play against. It's the Church perpetuating the myth of religion, to keep people living in fear.
They are attributing a serious mental disorder to something of the supernatural. What you should really look into is how many people have actually DIED during one?
But, it is the fault of the devil when evil things take place on earth, since Adam and Eve.
In the long ago, that may or may not have happened. I can say the devil made me do it, but then again. Was I not acting of my own desire? This is to say. My own free will?
I am going to let this one go, I don't know enough about this topic
Why? you asked the question, did you not? I would think that you would want the answer. To walk out on it would be to relinquish any opinion you may have or gain from it. Is this not so?
Well I do need to know the answer, but not sure I would understand it.
Read as much as you can, in as many books as possible about the subject and you still may not understand. Read the Upanishads and any other religious doccument. To confine your ideals to a single religious aspect, is to confine your mind. Of course to me, this the goal of christianity, to keep you stupid or ignorant to the entire truth, so that you may live by archaisms at their liezure.
In response to mischeviousme...I would look at Michael Tisarions work to understand the concept of devil and energy drain of the aura to allow such things to work through a person. Gives a whole other "idea" of what else in the way of life is here and a theory of why.
The 'devil' exists to be mankind's enemy, to tempt and tease us, to destroy if possible and to carry out the destruction when we create situation where he has the right to attack us.
His greatest asset is that most people deny he exists.
'The devil' is simply a concept created so that people can step away from full remorse at the result of their own actions. It exists in the minds of the religious mostly. The rest of us have to squarely face our indiscretions and attempt to make amends. The religious simply claim the devil made them do it, so they don't have to worry about the effect of their actions on others.
In other words, the devil is a scapegoat. If the devil made me do it, I am just shirking away any sense of accountabillity. In which case I was probably in need of institutionalization for thinking so. The devil is the dishonest man's way out. Basically...
Is that why there are devil cults that worship him?
Or song like " the devil inside"?
The church has kept you naive to truth for a long time. I can only stress this enough for myself. Get away from the church for as long as you need to, so that you can learn what the bible is not, truth.
But there are things in the bible that are true, or it would not have lasted 2000 years
There are things that correlate to actual events, but they are the fantasy workings of a mind that could not grasp the actuallity of it. The bible is a text that keeps us from thinking of the now and it is the goal of a leader to keep someone thinking the way they want them to. In this case the pastor or what have you, needs you because you, as a member of his church are blindly validating everything he says, just by being there. This is the thing that most followers fail to see, that they are puppets in a machine they don't rightly or fully understand.
Or, our position in any church is to hold the leadership accountable for what they teach.
It's unpopular, but needed.
Any church leader that expects anyone to follow them because they say something is right, is in error, the requirement is to SHOW from scripture why they are correct, then let the individual decide for themselves.
If the individual cannot see or agree, then they should find another body to belong to.
Yes. Their own... I do not disagree with communalization in religion, but I think that christianity is so empirical in it's doctrine that people of that form of faith feel as though they have no choice. They either accept J.C. or burn for it. This to me can be lichened to nursery rhymes and scary stories, meant to instill fear in children.
Churchianity will certainly use coercion to control their adherents, mainly because those leading are ignorant of real Christianity anyway.
But there are many good, free church bodies of believers who will keep to what Christ taught us, and not abuse their members.
Any believers who want to use hell-fire preaching to win converts is mislead, the only way to help people come to faith is by the demonstration of how Christ can and has changed things in our personal lives, and in the lives of those who seek more information about faith and specifically Christ.
I think the devil cults worship the concept that was created by the religious. Christianity says he is the ruler of this world. They want power that Christianity has said the devil has. So, the devil cults are the creation of those who worship God, imo.
And songs? You think because something is mentioned in a song it therefore exists? Where is Puff?
The excuse the devil made me do it is completely lame, we do things, the enemy is the 'enforcer' who has the legal right to pester and if possible destroy folk when they break Gods laws.
Well, if you take accountability for your own actions; that is good. I simply have a distaste for the concept of the devil. It's too easy to blame things on cosmic powers. We would be ahead, as a society, to find the true cause and attempt to address it. Saying the devil exists simply allows the problems to fester.
The enemy ( I dislike the names given to it) has no power over anybody UNTIL they transgress Gods law, then he does, for the transgressor has stepped outside of Gods protection.
From THAT point onward the enemy CAN influence what we do, but we need to open the door first.
So the lie that ends up in a murder, started by the individual telling the lie that allowed the enemy access to them.
You lost me at the 'steps outside God's protection' point. You are making excuses for the actions of others. So, in essence, you open the door for others not to take full accountability for their actions. I don't support that train of thought. I have enough respect for humanity to expect them to take responsibility for their own actions.
What about when people are possessed by the devil. There are documented cases of this happening
Do they fly around and shoot out pea soup all the way across the room.
Most cases it's heavy drugs or in their own mind
And a penciance for wanting to be noticed. People do all sorts of odd things to get attention.
But there have been documented cases of people speaking lanuages like old aramaic. How could they have learned that? Things across the room flying that nobody touched. How could that have happened?
Have you seen it with your own eyes, or do you buy into everything you hear? Maybe the person posessed has latent tlekentic abillities. I will not buy into posession though, because it is a crazy notion. Plus people can be brainwashed into believing just about anything, even the possibillty that they themselve's are posessed.
There is a new movie out called, "The Devil Inside"
Just by watching the trailer, one can see how easy it is to make up stuff and put it into a film with amazingly stunning graphics and special effects.
Of course, whenever we see videos of exorcisms, nothing of the sort is ever present in those videos. They are obviously faked and often the actors have come forward to state they were faked.
Selling snake oil is easy when the crowd is so gullible.
And that's the whole point TM, the enemy has been capable of selling the snake oil of "I don't exist' to the gullible for eons....
Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about.
It's actually the other way around John. But, nice try.
I suppose if you believe there are documented cases of devil possession it would follow that you believed in the devil. I don't know. I've seen strange movies, but no strange footage from live events. I know the Catholic church still performs exorcisms, but I would have to see something for myself before I would believe it.
The average human is capable of extraordinary things under extraordinary circumstances. I don't know that evidence of true possessions exists. Except for those who want to believe.
But there are many things that do exist even if people cannont see them. Like the atom. You cannot see it, but it does exist, doesn't it?
If one does not question the reallity they know, then how can they tell what is real and what is not? Believing things on word vallue, is like believing in the tooth fairy. You follow where I'm going with this statement?
Yes, but then many believe in the big bang. It has not been proven, but still many believe it. So, yes I do know where you are going with that statement. People are following it with word value. No scientist has ever proved it is real
The only reason the big bang theory was accepted, is because the pope said it fit in with creationist doctrine. "In the beginning was void, then came the thought". This seems to be a running idea in religious circles the world over. We struggle to understand and in doing so, we ever confuse the situation. Hence we cease to be and we follow. Does this make more sense than it does to me?
Yes, that does make sense to me. I don't accept just because the pope has told me I have to accept it.
Why not just accept things as they are? Has reallity shunned you so that you have to live for the words of another? Live for yourself and whatever answers you find will feel like they are the answers you need. Just a suggestion, you don't have to live by it, but I think that was the original message, not the one that has been going around.
But would you agree that ONCE someone has experienced spiritual reality in their lives, then, for them at least, and any others who witnessed the event, the supernatural gains credence and is recognised as something many or most rational thinkers will never see as real.
There are a multitude of media signals bouncing around my house right now, but I cannot know they are real because I neither have the TV on, nor have the satellite receiver to be able to view them.
Once I could be persuaded to make those connections, I could watch a whole world of programming previously only reported to me by others.
Likewise (getting back on topic) the spiritual world is unrecognised by any human who refuses or is unable to 'tune into' the signals that exist.
I believe in ghosts. Does that make me religious? No, it just means that I have a belief in the supernatural and it is up to me to decipher what is real and what is not. A word is not real, it is as intangible as the principle behind it. I give words credence by acting on them or by choosing to believe them. I am a rational person, so before I buy into the words of another, I read the description on the back of the label.
No, but it does make you a believer in the irrational.
You have obviously failed to decipher what is real and what is not.
Sorry, but rational people don't believe in ghosts.
Is the supernatural real, i.e. do you believe there is a spiritual world we cannot see?
I know Brenda told you this was a great point. I'm afraid she is wrong. I would never tell you the spiritual doesn't exist. Because I don't believe that, but simply believing in something doesn't make it so. And you can't compare belief and hope to reality. You can, but you don't have a leg to stand on if you do.
You can prove the existence of an atom by experimentation and observation, with the right equipment.
Is there a Large Extra-Dimensional Being Collider somewhere that can prove the existence of the devil by experimentation and observation?
Maybe the devil exists, maybe not, but there's no proof one way or the other.
Atoms exist. We have proof.
That's the difference between stuff like atoms and stuff like God, the devil, angels, demons, ghosts, bigfoot, etc.
I'm not saying there's no devil. I'm saying there's no way of knowing; at least not yet. I mean, I've never met the devil. Have you?
Here's a wiki link to a Scanning Tunneling Microscope, a device used to look at individual atoms...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanning_t … microscope
Atoms consist of a nucleus surrounded by electrons, the nucleus is made of protons and neutrons, protons are made up of quarks and it is the combined energy of quarks contained within a proton that makes up its' mass, which scientists can measure with very good precision.
As you can see, science has gone well beyond just looking at atoms.
No, there are documented cases of believers who claim others are possessed by the devil. There is no documentation whatsoever regarding anything about devils.
What about people who can speak languages they were never taught? Such as old aramaic? Children who can speak that language fluently? How can they do that?
"Reportedly, the nuns “couldn't keep the bed still,” scratches appeared on R’s chest, and he began to curse in "a strange language.” A later source said it was Aramaic, but a still later "well-documented record” failed to mention “any such language competence” (Allen 2000, 36).
Of course, the fact that the boy wanted to engage in such extreme antics over a period of three months does suggest he was emotionally disturbed. Teenagers typically have problems, and R seemed to have trouble adjusting-to school, his sexual awareness, and other concerns. To an extent, of course, he was challenging authority as part of his self-development, and he was no doubt enjoying the attention. But there is simply no credible evidence to suggest the boy was possessed by demons or evil spirits."
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/exorcism_ … _nonsense/
But, as I have said before there is truth in the bible look at the dead sea scrolls
And what of the dead sea scrolls is true? Have you read them or just heard that they are true? Ask those questions of christians and see that the varying answers are all the same. They say yes, but again, most christians have never read them and for the most part, the ones that have, have no understanding of the underlying meaning.
I rather get the up dated truth rather than from the dead you can not explain how it works for everyone living for today.
We are not the only religion that believes in the devil.
We are also not the only religion that gives it's people exorcisms to drive the devil out. Islamics and the Jewish people do that also.
Correct, almost all religions use the word "devil" as a metaphor to describe the worse parts of being human.
Of course not, because they are attributing some other mental disorder to something non-existent. It's called bad interpretation(diagnosis).
Of course they do. It's part and parcel of selling that ideology and holding it together, so people continue to believe.
In my opinion the Devil does exist, also understand that this belief's residence in the mind is purely by faith. According to the Bible, which I also have faith in, the devil was a created angel, a seraphim to be exact, that fell out of God's favor and out of heaven because of pride, rebellion, and disobedience. If you read in the book of Isaiah the Bible gives the ideas of Satan and what he conjured in His mind that ultimately led to his expulsion from Heaven. A great misunderstanding is this, The Devil is not some black entity with a tail, pitchfork, and horns. The Devil, according to the Bible, was an angel and it is not recorded that God changed his appearance so we must think that he still looks as so. What the devil does, along with the demons, is tempt mankind into sinning. One must understand though that he does not cause you to sin, you ultimately are the one that chooses to sin. The devil's main goal is to blind the eyes of as many people as possible into sinning and ignoring repentance through grace and face and belief in Jesus Christ. As a side not the other to things that tempt us are our flesh, as the Bible states it, and the world, not the people but the world order or the things of world. So we are tempted by the world, the flesh, and the devil, but ultimately it is the human that sins. Which is why we need repentance not the world, the flesh and the devil.
One questoin which has haunted me for a while is...if God created Satan, how could there have been anyu evil in him? Wouldn't that mean God had some evil attributes? What do you think?
God is not evil in any way and didn't create Satan with evil. Satan had freewill. And pride made him choose the path he chose.
You say freewill. But if evil didn't exist, there would be nothing to choose between. God can do anything right? Why not make Satan purely good? If he was purely good, he wouldn't have screwed up everything else. And if God is all-powerful, why make all of us suffer until he's ready to get rid of him?
God said everything He made was good (read Gen 1:31), including Satan, who was called Lucifer in Heaven. He made Lucifer good, but of his own free will, he chose to turn against God. Which caused him to be kicked out of Heaven.
God obviously wanted us all to have free will, including the angels.
And evil did not exist until Adam ate fruit of the tree of The Knowledge Of Good And Evil.
God is All-Powerful and All-Knowing, and has an appointed time to end all the world's ills.
But God created the tree. Evil had to come from somewhere. Where did it come from if not God?
"In my opinion the Devil does exist, also understand that this belief's residence in the mind is purely by faith."
YES!!!! Oh, you have no idea how happy I am to meet another person who has faith*, and also recognizes that it's faith, and understands the difference between faith and fact!
You made my day, mate.
*Faith in anything, be it God by any of His names, or in reincarnation, or in magick, or in ghosts, or whatever.
there are dualities in the world expressed in language, perhaps to emphasize the difference of the opposing ideas. Whether it is real or not, it depends on what our belief is. Good - bad, angel - devil, yin-yang like that.
I believe that God and all the aspects of creation are reflections of the depth and breadth of the human psyche. It is the darkness in our past and the light of a future not yet realized. It isn't supernatural, it's all nature. For whatever reason, we are different than our closest animal relatives, yet, there is only one single gene which separates us. Why did we evolve and they did not? Why didn't chimps and other apes go extinct. They, like us and the aquatic mammals such as dolphins specifically, are aware of self. How and why did certain creatures "return to the oceans" and just how quickly can evolution really occur? There are recent claims of certain rat experiments, where their DNA was changed in one generation. This is also backed up by recent findings in the Galapagos, where certain birds (I think Finches) were observed to have evolved in very short order, and the former Finch no longer exists, totally supplanted by the new Finch. A whole new breed. God evolves...God changes. Otherwise, he would still be sitting in the darkness. There's a message there. God never changes in that God is ever-changing. Satan/the devil is part of who mankind is. We, and we alone, rebel against God. Lucifer is of the self-same spirit as Man. Just as all of creation is reflective of the creator, so too, the created, for we are made in the image. When we surrender to God, we have personally, within ourselves, chained Satan and placed him at the foot of God, on his knees. He is our Bad Side. The animal we once were. Bad genes can bring it out. I don't buy into certain christian beliefs, and don't profess to be one. I just described what I perceived on my own journey of self-discovery and forgiveness of self and others. We are, after all, Darkness and Light with the full spectrum in between, including a twilit zone. Peace
So we know we have a choice. So we know that under any circumstance, no matter what, we have the opportunity to be forgiven. But also know that we as he, are accountable for our choices.
God, the Devil, and Kermit the Frog; all created by the mind of man.
Could it be that all evil springs from "ego?"
Ego is the physical universe "self" which obeys the laws of action-reaction (cause-and-effect) and is thus vulnerable. That vulnerability is the motivation to do great harm -- from snapping at someone because of an annoying noise to the tyranny of Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot. And it is as insidious as the kindly old lady who wouldn't help out a homeless person because they are so "dirty."
Could ego be the devil of which we speak?
Yehoshua of Nazareth said that we need to let our self die before we can gain everlasting life. I'd wager that this "self" is ego. And humility, it seems, is the antidote to ego.
The "Tree" of the forbidden fruit? What was it? Genesis tells us that Adam would die on the day he ate of the fruit, yet he lived for 930 years, most or all of it outside the garden. I posit that the garden was a spiritual place, only (non-physical). The "tree" and the "fruit" were non-physical, also. The name of the tree gives us a clue -- "the tree of knowledge of good and evil." This is a prime dichotomy: good-evil. Ego is made up of many dichotomies: good-evil, right-wrong, generous-selfish, wisdom-stupidity, compassion-indifference, perpetrator-victim and more.
Even in being good, ego is committing a form of evil -- pride. The truly good attempt to be anonymous about it.
We admire the hero because they are unselfish. We abhor the egotist and braggart because they are self-centered. Alas! Bragging is second-nature to me, but I'm still learning.
Evil is a decision. The tree was not evil. It merely was and is (it exists). Our decisions can be evil or good. They can be physical reality "relative-good" or they can be non-physical, divinely "paramita-good." (Paramita is a Buddhist term for perfection -- the one-sided coin of the "other shore" of existence... perhaps heaven.)
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Doesn't the fact that we don't know why anything exists, or should exist, discourage atheism? Why are atheists so sure that there is no God when they clearly can't answer all the questions about life?
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