Should the Government Force Churches to Have Gay Weddings?

Jump to Last Post 1-10 of 10 discussions (30 posts)
  1. Cassie Smith profile image66
    Cassie Smithposted 6 years ago

    A NJ judge ruled against a Christian retreat house that refused to allow a same-sex civil union ceremony to be conducted on its premises.  The United Methodist Church, the owner of the retreat house, holds the view that the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching. The lesbian couple wanted to have their wedding ceremony at the Christian retreat house and sued when they were denied.  Should this ruling force Christians to host ceremonies that are against their teachings?  I think the lesbians were trying to force this issue.  This will probably go to appeals.

    1. HistoryProdigy profile image68
      HistoryProdigyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely not. Our government has truly overstepped its bounds if it ever even considers this.  The First Amendment states, "congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Forcing a religion to go against its own beliefs is a smack in the face of the Constitution.

    2. Kyle Payne profile image60
      Kyle Payneposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Typically, Christian theology is against homosexuality, although in some cases it can be accepted. The real question that should be asked is this, should the government be allowed to interfere or even force churches to have  homosexually bases weddings? Well, under the United States Constitution, this problem would be one that would be left to the people. So by the Constitution the governments on a state and federal level should not interfere in any way. Also our government was built upon separation between church and state, so by no means should the government force anything relating to this. When things like this are forced, it is inevitable that individual liberty will be undermined and ignored in a loathsome way.

    3. profile image58
      paarsurreyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      There is no restriction on building churches; they could have their own.

    4. Greg Sereda profile image72
      Greg Seredaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      The Christian retreat house made the right choice.

      1. profile image58
        paarsurreyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        I agree with you friend.

  2. Eric Newland profile image60
    Eric Newlandposted 6 years ago

    Separation of what and what again?

  3. wilderness profile image97
    wildernessposted 6 years ago

    Incredible.  I can't imagine on what grounds he made his ruling - that judge belongs in the unemployment line.

  4. Cassie Smith profile image66
    Cassie Smithposted 6 years ago

    According to the judge, "as to ‘free exercise’ [of religion], the LAD (Law Against Discrimination) is a neutral law of general application designed to uncover and eradicate discrimination; it is not focused on or hostile to religion." and believes that some intrusion into religious freedom is necessary to balance other important societal goals.  So apparently to this judge, gay marriages are important societal goals but religious freedom is not.

    1. Eric Newland profile image60
      Eric Newlandposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Let me get this straight. This judge is literally saying, as in there isn't even room for an alternate interpretation, that New Jersey state law overrides the Constitution?

      1. Cassie Smith profile image66
        Cassie Smithposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        That seems to be what he's saying.

    2. profile image58
      paarsurreyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Then the court should do the wedding.

  5. LawrenceS profile image75
    LawrenceSposted 6 years ago

    Wow, this is crazy. This is not right nor did that judge have any type of legal right to pass that type of ruling.

  6. Elani-Lee profile image83
    Elani-Leeposted 6 years ago

    First I have to say that I fully support gay marriage. However, with that being said, the state should absolutely never tell any religious institution what ceremonies they should and should not be able to perform, in the same way that a religious organization shouldn't be telling the state what its "GOD" believes marriage should be. Religious freedom goes both ways.

    1. steveamy profile image61
      steveamyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      My exact position on the matter

  7. Jimmy Boyd profile image69
    Jimmy Boydposted 6 years ago

    Can you provide a source for this? As everyone is saying here, it is clearly a violation of the U.S. Constitution. The law may be a law of general applicability, but that Supreme Court decision said that a state could forbid use of a drug called "peyote." This is the opposite, essentially saying a church MUST do something instead of abstaining from it. It's a clear misapplication of the rules on laws of general applicability.

    This also likely violates the freedom of association in the First Amendment, not just the freedom of religion. Besides that, a church is not necessary to get married, so the judge's reasoning goes way too far.

    1. Cassie Smith profile image66
      Cassie Smithposted 6 years agoin reply to this
    2. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, it is not a violation of the constitution.  That document forbids the federal government from establishing a church but says nothing about states rights to do so.

      Perhaps the NJ judge has decided that he will legislate religion in NJ.

      1. HistoryProdigy profile image68
        HistoryProdigyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        The Bill of Rights covers the states and Federal government. Which is why the Constitution it is often referred to as the "Supreme Law of the Land".

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

          "Congress" refers to the federal government and the legislative body of the senate and house of representatives, not to state governments.  This amendment was added to protect the right of the individual states at the time from the federal government, not from themselves.  Some of the states were highly religious, some not so much, and neither wanted adjoining states interfering in their internal religions.

          1. Jimmy Boyd profile image69
            Jimmy Boydposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            You might want to study a little more. The 14th Amendment applies the 1st Amendment to the states. This is very basic and beyond dispute. See, for example, the case of Santa Fe County Texas moment of silence at football games. How did the local school lose that case if the 1st Amendment only applies to federal Congress? Why was Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore removed from the bench for refusing to remove the Ten Commandments from Alabama state-government property? Read up a little more if you are going to comment on things.

  8. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 6 years ago
    1. Jean Bakula profile image98
      Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I live in NJ. This is odd, the judge should be kicked off the bench. I will say this though, Ocean Grove has always been a town of bible thumpers. When the "blue laws" changed, when I was a little girl, they refused to let business owners work on "The Lord's Day." They are fanatics, and most NJ people avoid the town. It's in the middle of the JerseyShore, which although is not anything like the foul group in the show, is a resort area. The people who are down there want to enjoy themselves, whether that means a loud party, or someone who wants to sit quietly on the beach. Ocean Grove makes their own rules too.

  9. livelonger profile image93
    livelongerposted 6 years ago

    This is more than a bit misleading.

    A church rents out (i.e. in exchange for money) its space for *other groups* to perform ceremonies of all kinds. It is not actually performing those marriages or ceremonies itself.

    It would be a different matter entirely if the state was forcing this church's ministers to perform a gay marriage. But it wasn't.

    It is not unlike the anti-equality crowd to mislead in order to pump up hysteria about the legalization of gay marriage.

    1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
      MelissaBarrettposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      What he said.  That's why I posted the link.  I would have argued it myself but I was feeling a bit waspish.

      1. Jean Bakula profile image98
        Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        Deleted

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          They weren't asking the church to perform the service, they were asking to rent a pavilion owned by the church. They weren't going to use the church's clergy, just a space that they rent out to other groups.

          1. Jean Bakula profile image98
            Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            NJ is moving towards supporting gay marriage anyway. It already supports the community property and tax laws of couples, regardless of sex.

    2. MrMaranatha profile image77
      MrMaranathaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      To rent out your facilities to pretty much anyone would be fine...  Quite possibly even to the "couple" that came and asked... if it were a Birthday party or something that the Church considered normal..  But the fact that it is for a Marriage that is outside what the Church has for its Doctrinal stand.
      This would be about the effect of someone wanting to rent your Rental Garage.. Oh lets say a Funeral Home wanted to rent the garage... (you think OK maybe to store some coffins or equipment)  and then they declare that they were going to use it instead for the storage of dead human bodies until they could find another suitable place to put them... as the grave yards were too full at the moment.

      It is a matter of Defilement.

      The Building is part of that  Establishment of Religion.. and how that building is used can only be determined on a case by case basis: by the Congregation... as a part of How they Exercise their liberty.

      I would dare say that there is not another organization in the country that would want the Government telling them that they MUST ALLOW something to be done on their own private property... Regardless of what it is. 

      They have thier own churches... thier own ministers.. thier own halls and dance clubs... shopping malls etc...   Why should a Church be singled out for the Government to force this issue upon them..???  If its that important for the State Government to get involved in... Let them Provide a Fire Station for the purpose... they can roll the trucks outside and "Rent the Hall"... Its a Government problem... let the Government solve it with their own resources not the private property of a Religious Institution.

      1. profile image58
        paarsurreyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

        A rational solution indeed.

  10. profile image61
    SanXuaryposted 6 years ago

    This is a battle of definitions. A wedding is the joining of a man and a woman bearing witness before God and other believers who our the witnesses. To be wed in a Church requires the blessing of the Church despite the fact that such requirements have become almost non-existent. In reality the wedding in a Church is only symbolic since the document all originates at your local Court House. If it did not originate there you would probably find it difficult to get divorced in compliance with the vows you had taken on your wedding day. Everything outside of the Church is a Civil Union, so the real question is why would someone outside of the doctrine of the Church demand to be married in one? If the Republican party did not allow you to be one because you do not believe in there agendas should you be called one any way? I believe everyone has a right to their own sanctuary's. Legally marriage and Civil Unions have not meant anything in this country to anyone except to those who want your money. If you took a homeless person into your home for any period of time they would have as much right to live in your home as any Civil Union. Make it the opposite sex or someone with children and find out what rights they have in your state after an extended period of time in your home.

 
working

This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://hubpages.com/privacy-policy#gdpr

Show Details
Necessary
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)