Most all religions address the issue of life after death and where we go.
However, no religion that I know of addresses the concept of where we came from before life. Why is that?
If we exist after life, then it is reasonable to conclude that we existed before life.
What are the philosophies and religion's theories/concepts regarding this?
Mormons address it- beyond that, I don't know too many other religions that do address it.
Edit: Here's a link with some basic information from the Mormon website if you care to read it
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2006/02/the-f … +existence
That is Something that I have often wondered??
Let US make man in our image.
could this have as easily been written ; let us make human bodys as we choose to imagine them (and inhabit them).
It is written that Our names were written in the book of life before the earth was created.
If they did this and retained all previous knowledge; .??,, I think that it would be a disaster.
Enough of disaster to wipe the slate clean and start all over. Second time ? We retain no previous knowledge
It is written that Our names were written in the book of life before the earth was created
This always baffled me. If this is true than a loving god is really playing some mind games with us. He already knew the outcome down to the man which would make our existence even more futile than we could imagine.
Since we really can't imagine that, it's probably not true. We didn't begin nor do we end, just change form.
We are Light, thus Light is our origin yet
We are also darkness and darkness is our origin...
Here as human we see both Light and darkness, this is so that We may see both our origin and cling to the one that is good.
The ones who see both Light and darknes as good are the ones who origin is light and their going out of this world is greater than their comng in.
As some has put it, their Glory at the end is greater than that at the beginning.
To remain in darkness is not being able to conprehend light from darkness, thus unable to determine the goodness of any particular thing.
So to that one somethings sometimes are good and othertims are evil.
Light and darkness are not qualities that appear to the eyes or any other human senses except the one that incorporates all... the understanding mind, the conciousness of being.
So the ultimate purpose of man is for the ever increasing glory of God..
Some will see this Glory for it belongs to them and others will merely wonder...
how do you backup your claim that light and darkness are our origin?
Is a baby both light and dark? or is light and dark something we gradually evolve into depending on our personal positions in life? Is not light and dark a choice we make later on in life and how then is this our origin?
"The ones who see both Light and darkness as good are the ones who origin is light"
so you are saying that to see good and bad as good is to be rooted in light?
sorry but... what?
Michael Newton's books describe our activities and the locales of life between lives. They are: Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls.
There is no way to dissern our origin, past the advent of written communications. We can draw all sorts of conclusions but all that we percieve, is all that we think we know.
Where's Edgar Cayce when you need him?
Many people believe and/or proclaim that they know about the life before their current life, as they try to discern their origins, in a plural fashion, lifetime from lifetime, from here from there, blah-blah... Reincarnation beliefs are nothing new, as you should be well aware of these things via your Buddha studies and whatnot, among several other philosophies and so-called religions that speak of such.
At any rate, nobody "knows" yourself as much as YOU do, albeit it is not uncommon to simply forget about your roots. As an old Ancient Egyptian proverb once (basically) said, "Lost is the person who forgets his/her path." Go figure...
Time is timeless once past. I may be able to see past lives and be at the sway of synchronocity, but that is only a result and the limit of my perception. No one realy knows where we came from or why we're here, it's one of the great mysteries of an entire whole.
Yeah, time travel (which would validate a 4th dimension as an area that can be toyed with) back into the past never did seem possible to me either (although travelling into the future is still very possible!), at least when considering a 3-dimensional realm, although I've never been able to disprove (nor did I want to) that time travel can't exist in the invisible 5th dimension (call it dark matter, if it tickles ya fancy), which would be similar to the worldly renown Edgar Cayce, and his bizarre claims of spiritual insight - to and fro - within the cosmic queries of the unknown. It is interesting, nonetheless...
Very... The idea of quantum foam and bubble universes was always of interest to me. If I were to go through time, I could never be sure whether I was in my own universe or not. The future does not exist, therefor there is an infinite probability of landing in my own universe and timeline.
The only way the future "doesn't exist" is if everything stops NOW. So, within a very, very sound theory, the future does in fact exist or better put, WILL exist. It would be like throwing a baseball now, and saying that, during mid-flight, its future point of landing doesn't exist, when in fact it Will. Only cosmo hating people that dream of the END, usually think that way, not that you do. Just saying, in general...
The future is an apparition and is formless, hence the infinite variables. I can predict a certain outcome. But what if I throw a ball and a bird flies into it's path? There will always be an uncertainty, as to the aspects of any future.
But yet, unless EVERYTHING ends as of now, it WILL still exist. I think what I said prior, was too simple to grasp, perhaps?
I'm looking for pre that.
Where did the "soul" come from to occupy the body?
Plato asked that question; but, there has never been a clear answer. I suspect philosophers and theologians don't want to clearly answer that particular question because then they would not have anything to do. They would have to get jobs.
My current favorite theory is that after death we return from whence we came.
However, my ongoing lab rat theory is also still in effect.
i like your ideas.
as far as afterlife. i lean toward metamorphosis. its proven. reincarnation is not something i hope in. i plan to leave this body open minded.
if i may ask what would you do with that knowledge ? the pre that? how would it be helpful?
and im not into religion. the soul thing,
"and im not into religion. the soul thing,"
Me neither. I'm just feeling curious today.
"if i may ask what would you do with that knowledge ? the pre that? how would it be helpful?"
I don't really know. But, whatever its value is, it would be equivalent to whatever value the after-death scenarios have.
We have always existed, and we shall always exist. We move from one form of energy to the next, like passing through adjacent rooms, the difference between what we were, what we are, and what we will be, doesn't exist. On this side of the division, we can't perceive beyond this shell. That is the only way things can work. A 'piece' of the universe becomes a conscious material being, one day, it returns to the universe from which it came, but consciousness continues...on a different level. Imagine a sensory deprivation tank. Here, we feel, there, we exist.
I agree. It has to be a flow of some sort if consciousness carries on, although I'm not of the opinion that your consciousness would stay uniquely separate.
I think about bodies decomposing; all of the parts that were once together as a whole slowly changing form. I've wondered if maybe consciousness doesn't mimic that in some way. You don't retain your individuality upon death, but the parts circulate and reform with other pieces to animate another physical body. How the pieces bind together determines the next life form.
it s believed by many, that the soul lives forever and merely occupies a new body every time someone dies...
There's an awfully long line. If you're lucky, it's only three days.
So 'entities' out there being reformed must think it's really cool to be human since the population is ever growing. I believe in the ongoing energy theory but what about human population? Can one star, for example, meet it's longevity than turn into 5000 new humans?
If we think about what we are terribly and inexplicably drawn to, we find some inkling of our past energy. For me, it's Britain. I have no explanation for it but English, Scottish, Irish, Welch - everything about it draws me. My ancestors are from Italy and Portugal but I'm not intrigued by the Mafia or fishermen. (I do like a warm Mediterranean beach though).
Oddly, one other person in my family out of 12 (my mother), is drawn to Britain as well but it's not something that was dominant in our childhood or ever even discussed, necessarily.
I have grown to suspect that we are eternal spirit beings, temporarily placed in these shells for training and observation purposes, and to return to spirit form when we finish the course.
When my daughter was first born she would chuckle and giggle whilst looking at the 'ceiling' and I began to surmise that she was aware of the spiritual entities that surround us all the time.
In our instance the house was obviously filled with benign and assisting spirits, but equally I could imagine houses where the spiritual force attracted to them were evil and malevolent, and which would produce a different reaction from a new born child, and therefore affect how their physical world view developed.
If my thoughts bear any correctness, it became apparent that as the child learns to be a human being, their spiritual awareness subsides until they rediscover their spiritual awareness, for good or bad at a later stage (normally we become spiritually aware again around puberty age).
But the plain and simple fact is we cannot know until we leave here!
1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
I believe that we exist on some type of spiritual plane before we incarnate.
I've seen many threads started that when a truth is ready to be revealed ...
we drop it.
It would seem that debating is more fun than searching for that answer that we say that we are looking for.
Psalm 139:14-16 Says: ... I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful. I know that full well.
My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before on of them came to be. Somebody seems to know where we came from.
Perhaps, @paradigmsearch, you haven't looked broadly enough, or there were filters on your eyes so that you missed the evidence.
Early Christian church father, Origen, pondered the pre-existence of souls associated with reincarnation. Two hundred years later, the church decided to make him and his writings outcast -- anathema.
Jesus talked of reincarnation. This was explicit in his statement that Elijah had come but no one recognized him in the form of John the Baptist. It was implied in his discussion of those that live by the sword dying by the sword. How else could one explain the fact that many apparently do not die by the sword by which they had lived? And the disciples of Jesus strongly implied this when they asked about the man born blind if his affliction had been caused by something he had done. How else could a man deserve to be born blind than if he had done something in a prior life. Kicking mommy in the womb doesn't seem the kind of "crime" that would warrant such judgment.
Judaism's holy book (Christianity's too) talks of God hating Esau but loving Jacob while the twins were in their mother's womb.
Genesis 1:26-27 describes man being created in God's image. Genesis 2:7 describes God again creating man, but this time from the dust of the ground. Certainly the image of God is not dust. These are two separate creations. Man is immortal spirit wrapped in Homo sapiens flesh. So if these immortals were created in the beginning, where were they all the time before the birth in their current lifetime? Other lives!
Buddhism describes reincarnation. And of course, if you are reincarnated multiple times, then you are automatically going to have before and after. Simple logic. But Buddhism also describes something called the "bardo" or between time. Naturally, between birth and death is one "bardo," but so is the span between "death" and "birth."
My own interpretation of Genesis holds the Garden as a purely spiritual (non-physical) "place." The "Adam" and "Eve" of the Garden are merely spirit. The trappings of physicality in the descriptions are merely aids in telling the story. The forbidden fruit was "fruit" only in the sense of "product of creation." What kind of fruit? The product of dichotomies (good-evil) and the like is ego.
We are the fallen angels. We are Adam and Eve. We are immortal spirit wrapped in Homo sapiens flesh, blinded by ego, so that we can only see through the physical instrumentalities of these bodies.
Genesis 6:3 says, "And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years." Notice how it says, "also is flesh." This means that man is something else and also Homo sapiens. This also implies that God will not always hang around this planet waiting for us to make up our minds to be rescued.
lone77star - You really know your book. Thanks for all this insight.
How do we need rescuing? If we are eternal we are eternal. If ego is part of the human condition, it serves to keep us within the parameters of our current condition. Many escetics have tried to break through the blood/spirit barrier with some success but not enough to change their form at will.
Subjegating ego makes the difference in mentality - that is to say discriminitive behavior allows us to be undistracted by afflictions of the mind. The quest (for some) to regain the mystic union is ongoing.
Perhaps the choice of the word 'rescue' is my only issue with the above comment. The flowing objective of union with spirit and creator (one and the same) will never go away, but it may be simply the place from which we draw our motivation.
My perceptions are limited by the seeking of a path, that does not exist. The creator is the creation, I am creating the creator of myself. I am one with my personal God, of which there is no religion. I percieve the world through my creator, with the ade of my eyes. My creator sees with my eyes and I see with the eyes of my creator. It's all a creation of individual perception, none can see with my eyes but me.
Excelent presentation lone77star
to uderstand this should cause us to see many christian concepts differently than we do.
just woke up in time to discover that it's past bed time.
2 AM and time for this boy to go to bed.
I have pondered this many times and reached a few conclusions. Whatever we our, we our infants in this life towards spiritual growth and maturity. Deciding our fate in this extremely short life and practising free will in order to make this decision changes my picture of life on Earth enormously. I wonder just how much can we really learn or know in a life time that is distorted by Earthly existence and free will. Even more questions emerge for those who were cheated of life and not given the opportunity in such a short life span. I see a very different purpose and far fewer souls that will ever grow beyond this place and wonder about life's true journey, especially for those who refuse to learn its true purpose.
man wants the answers in order to alter the way of things. we tamper . its in our nature. im no fiddler
...But we are all players, whether you are sitting on the bench or out there playing in the field, so in that respect, the game still plays on, even when you claim to quit or "not play." ~~~
this is a ride not a game to me. and as long as ones remembered or the walls they've built still stand. their existence is concrete.
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