Atheists, would proof of Jesus as the Son of God make you a Christian?
Fellow believers let us pray that God will have mercy on those who mock his name, on those who show anger and disgust, on those who cannot understand the reality of the one true living God. May we, like Christ on the cross, speak words of love and concern for those who don't know what they are doing or understand the love of God. I pray that the Holy Spirit will convict them and lead them into all truth.
LOL! "the reality of the one true living God"
And, this reality is in which universe?
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Hmm. Then explain the 2047 + years of 'perished' people.
And, remember, perish means death -and also the Hebrews do not believe the afterlife concept.
Afterlife comes from pagan mysticism.James, James, James. You do come up with something on point every once in awhile, don't you? Agreed, afterlife is pagan. Since man and animals have been on earth, all that have perished, are still dead. The Hebrews believe in the resurrection of Mashyach and His return. They believe that the set-apart people will live again at His return. I told you before, you need to stop listening to those imposters (Ashkenazi Jews), the gentiles, who dare, trample down His land. So, you are not speaking for the Hebrews, or about the Hebrews, only for the impersonators in Israel today. You didn't know that, from "within"?
It's clear that the Holy Spirit has not made Claire a more compassionate person.
I do not believe in a God and I think, from reading the Bible - 'the word of God' - that the God described there is evl.
two hundred years ago the ability for man to be able to fly through the ait was a mith.
Funny how histry tends to disprove it self concerning what is myth and what isn't.
Stand in one place long enough .... and everything that you know to be truth will become mythTwo thousand years ago the ability for man to walk on water, cure blindness and resurrect the dead was a reality.
Exactly.
Or not.
"two hundred years ago the ability for man to be able to fly through the ait was a mith."
Jerami, you dont understand what the word 'myth' means. Look it up in a dictionary. That is a book with words and their meanings. Man taking flight was never considered a myth at anytime in history. Never.Yes, have you heard the myth about the Christian God? A real childish myth but one that has had a terrible impact on the world, starting with the Amaleks in the Bible.
On the contrary, God (who you refer to as "The Christian God") has had a very definite positive impact on the world. Many of the people who claim to be His have had a very negative impact, as have many of the people who claim He doesn't exist, but He Himself has been beneficial.
Raman, that is totally sick. I don't know who the Benedict guy is but people in positions of responsibility are just as responsible as the abusers. I'm a mandated reporter and am obligated to report to child services if I have a reasonable belief that someone is being abused. I can get fired for trying to figure it out myself.
I think people should have a problem with what the Catholic Church teaches, they preach that Jesus Christ is God. But the first commandment states:
I am Yehowah, thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.Ro-jo-yo, I just read your article on Yehoway and the trinity. It sounds like you want to keep the names of God in Hebrew in all Bibles regardless of translation. There are names ascribed to God that tell about His nature: Jehovah Jireh - The Lord who provides; Jehovah Nissi - The Lord our banner; Jehovah Rapha - The Lord who heals If you will refer to online commentaries, you will find that theologians have not overlooked most points people attempt to debate.
All mainline Christian denominations teach that Jesus is God. That's not exclusive to the teachings of the Catholic Church.
HOW would you even go about proving something like that? It's not like God has DNA that we could compare to Jesus. So honestly, anyone can say their god. There's no way to prove it.
"God"....................the greatest lover
"so loved"............the greatest degree
"the world"...............................the greatest number
"that He gave".........................the greatest act
"His only begotten Son".........the greatest gift
"that whosoever".....................the greatest invitation
"believeth"................................the greatest simplicity
"in Him".....................................the greatest person
"should not perish"..................the greatest deliverance
"but"...........................................the greatest difference
"have".......................................the greatest certainty
"everlasting life."....................the greatest possessionYour greed for ever lasting life will not get you far. For it is a sin to want to be like God, is it not?
God ... an immoral, evil dictator who asks his followers to comming murder, genocide and rape.
Jesus ... the most wicked man in the Bible.
In a literal, and literalist, sense, you're right. Anyone can say they're god. People do it all time. But there's one big difference with Jesus. He fulfilled prophecies that were written down a thousand years or more before His birth, and have been continually studied for thousands of years. That's why so many of the self-proclaimed 'Messiahs' of the first century are barely remembered, if at all, while Jesus started a worldwide movement that's lasted over two thousand years.
If one truly did study the bible then they would know that the name of the Messiah is Yehowshuwa. A person has to study on their own or else they get indoctrinated by their instructors.
To diannetrotter
Jehovah is an intentional German corruption by the Germans of the true name Yehowah.The question is: Does knowing God's "true name" bring you closer to God or not?
No.
The "true name" nonsense was invented during the Jewish diaspora, and later adopted by Kabbalists. This was retroactively attached to ancient Judaism, but there is no evidence that it should have been.
Of course, if you feel closer to God by knowing his "true name," then all we know is that _you_ feel closer, not that any special bilateral closeness has been achieved.I didn't know about it during the diaspora. But I agree, that knowing God's 'true name' is usually more of a diversion than an actual straight path to Him.
Is this a Christian teaching? You are not held accountable for what you do not know? The Book gives many verses showing the importance of knowing the Name. In Prov.30:4- "Who else but Yahuah goes back and forth to heaven? Who else holds the wind in His fists, and wraps up the oceans in His cloak? Who but Yahuah has created the world? If there is any other, what is his name- and his son's name- if you know it? We are actually challengened to discover the true Name. Even if you are not a scholar or linguist (I'm not) don't be led astray by modern spins to the language given by the Most High. Look only at the way the Names were originally written and spelled. The Greeks kept the Father's Name written in Hebrew in all their early manuscripts. For the naysayers. Many claim that since they don't speak Hebrew, there is no significance in calling the Father and Son by their Hebrew Names. Do you speak Spanish, Dutch, German, Russian etc.? No? We have no problem in trying to pronounce the names of people from these countries exactly the way they sound so as not to offend. Does not the Creator deserve at least the same respect as men?
Hi Robert, Respectfully, if you are not a scholor or linguist, what is your basis to take an authoritative position about what people should call God. What's baffling is that there are hundreds, maybe thousands of translations of the Bible. There are possibly two to three times as many commentaries, dictionaries, and other authoritative sources that transcribe from Greek/Hebrew to many different languages. Yours is the first that seems insistent that the original names are all that is acceptable. How can you be sure that you are right? What would be a compelling reason for people to change based on your declaration. No sarcasm intended.
I know you are not being sarcastic, Diane. You should ask questions about anything you may not understand or foreign to you. I don't speak several languages skillfully (linguist), but I fellowship and study His word with those that have this ability. I have problems with one language. I am a student and pupil (scholar) of His word, but claim no profound knowledge of it. I have spent the last 12 yrs sincerly seeking His word, light has been shed. Many others can make the same statement, I'm sure. Yes, all translations come from Hebrew or Greek. Now a question that needs to be asked is what Hebrew, paleo (ancient,original) or modern/Yiddish? You have probably never come across the true Hebrew language. The ancient biblical manuscripts were in a language that contained no vowel points. The vowel points were added in the 9th cent. to guard against anyone saying the Sacred Name. This is during the time many of the names of the Father "Jehovah", "Yahweh" etc. originated, give or take a century or two, especially with the popular YHWH. Those who I have learned from have brought to my attention many of the false teachings that have occured because of the addition of vowel points which man has used to pollute and corrupt the original language. The JP Green Interlinear is the only Book that translates word for word in Ancient Hebrew and Greekinto English. It will bring a far superior understanding on what the Book is saying. Many fear to delve into a deeper understanding because the truths made visible, most Christians do not want to accept. It literally rocks the boat. No, I am not the first to insist that that the original Names are all that is acceptable. I asked if Christians still believed you will not be held accountable for what you don't know. Did they also tell you, you will be held accountable if you willingly do not seek to know. I know I'll get some flak with that, but....How can I be sure that I am right? I can now give you scriptual proof of what I have learned and believe to be the truth. Still doesn't mean I'm right does it? You can feel it, you can see it, a fire in your bones. How can you be sure I am wrong? Do you know the true Names of the Father and Son? Do you have any knowledge of the ancient languages? If not, you actually don't know what was originally written. I can now see thru the myths and words that give false and misleading meanings. Still does not mean I am right. Simply right for me. All it would take is a little research. Are you so sure, that what you believe you know, following that Christian doctrine, is the way, without taking a look. Excuse me, but sister, you are being deceived. All of us have been deceived, but you of all people. No sarcasm meant. I say what I say because I care, to you and everyone else. Take a look before it is too late. It can and will get to be too late. Shalum
Hi Robert, I know there is no sarcasm in your tone. I hear passion. I believe, based on The Bible, that Christians will not be judged. They will stand before the Lord at the Judgement Seat of Christ to receive rewards for their faithfulness. Some will receive more than others. I know non-believers will go before the Great White Throne of Judgement. It's wonderful that you have time to delve into languages, history, and philosophy. Is Shalum the same as Shalom?
Odd you don't understand that this is the basis of all the conflicts your religion causes.
Them/Us. Saved/Lost - we get rewards/others get judged.
Glad to see you are an OT girl - better read up on what the OT says about women. Far as I recall - you are sinning every time you speak to a stranger.
Save me a seat by the fire.
I absolutely understand what it means. Some will be saved. Some will be lost. Those that don't believe it are well within their rights.
OT Women - you are speaking of history and "laws". Because of Jesus Christ, we are no longer under the law. We are under "grace!"
Since you can't wait for the barbecue, the division should be welcome to you. I won't be attending. I will be in heaven praising at the feet of Jesus.
You be blessed Mark. If you change your mind, let me know!LOL
Odd - all the stuff you claimed about the seat of judgement is in the OT. But the rest of it doesn't count now huh?
Save me a seat by the fire.
Finally, after nearly 20,000 posts, you said something valuable. LAWL {did I get that right?}
This is the basis for all conflicts within Theos.
good-evil : the good go x the evil go y.
right-wrong : the right get x the wrong get y.
Although not certain if you accidentally on-purpose stumbled onto it, but said paradox, which causes all conflicts, is Reason {Knowledge of} versus Understanding -aka Wisdom {Philos}. If you are divided in yourself, regardless of your position {x,y}, then you remain conflicted within. And the internal definitely manifests external (i.e. unlimited violent actions by humanity for x-thousands years). This is probably one of the only statements, textually, that is emphatically accurate: A kingdom divided will fall. A mind divided is conflict. A body-spirit separated is death.
And although millions believe or disbelieve of the afterlife as the escape clause, they do not realize they are praying for death to come and ultimately will bring to pass what they desire. The first recorded conflict in humans, should the text be accurate, resulted immediately in decay and then finally death. And, unless incorrect, the entire point of the "Christian" message is [suppose to be] a Way of no-death -a way back to immortality for any and every human who decides without changing their minds -again- to take the plunge?
Why both sides do not see it is actually my question. How much more proof/evidence do humans need to realize that this internal-to-external conflict, this division, is precisely what is killing each and every one of them -regardless of their chosen x,y variations. When, or if, you can answer this with clarity and true integrity for the sake of all human life, then we have something excellent to discuss.
James.Immortality? Show me. Irrational faith does not work for me - sorry.
Things - including people, die - this is that natural way of things. This has nothing to do with a non-existence conflict you describe.
I do not feel conflicted within and this will not result in my death instead of majikal immortality.
Show me instead of making outrageous claims that you cannot support. Eternal life makes no sense at all - none. Christ - I get bored after 2 days of the same thing. Can you imagine the hell of eternity?
LAWL! is fine.Still, undeniably, this is the cornerstone of the philosophy. Granted the method of achievement has spawned outstanding doctrines pro and con. Furthermore, it is also not the only philosophy to share the concept of immortal human. Even the sciences share it, some to lesser degree of course, else no single medication would exist to repair the body (or mind) nor development of other classes/approaches to extending life, not to mention the desire to fully understand the human being, the planet and universe.
As for immortality being boring, I do not see how one can come to such a narrow conclusion, or assume it would be doing the "same thing" every day. Apart from living void of death, the possibilities and abilities are as infinite as that immortality. Kumbaya, white robe, do nothing but ooh and ahh, at the feet of a god is not even remotely close to immortality from any of the cornerstones.
James.So - nothing then? Just anyone who does not agree is coming to a narrow conclusion? You got it - I don't?
Sounds familiar............. LAWL!
Obviously you have not read your Douglas Adams. Wowbagger deciding to personally insult every sentient being in the Universe - in alphabetical order.
Come on - stop pontificating and show me something.What do you mean by "so, nothing then?".
And what does that have to do with your narrowed thinking on the "day to day" of immortality?
Again, with the "show and tell". I wonder if any of the great thinkers of history were the same, meaning needing to see something before attempting or investigating an idea, possibility, etc.
Correct me if necessary, but isn't that precisely what religion does -rather the doctrine of religion? It puts the personal responsibility on another person or thing -else claims empirical or esoteric information? As mentioned before, showing can be done, to some degree. But it would not make a bit of difference unless a person does the work for themselves. Am disappointed Theos {equation and sensation} makes people lazy. Am even sorrier it keeps them in the cell-block of Reason {for right-wrong; good-evil; rational-irrational; living-dieing; pro-con; empirical-esoteric}.
It is really not that difficult a pursuit, actually. Far simpler than most even consider. The difficulty is letting go. The ego does not want to 'die', it wants to remain in control. Not only that, but it does not want to do any work. lol. Some get close, then pull back, others are too muddled to ever notice what is right in front of them. Others shrug it off and go their way. An, to reiterate, immortality is the cornerstone of Christianity and nearly ever other human pursuit by mechanics or sensation. Fortunately all those applications have and will fail. Does this mean immortality is impossible, unachievable? Certainly not. It does mean there is abundant evidence to state the previous methods have failed.
As for Mr Adams, have read some. I am not making the connection -apart from the satirical ploy. If you are suggesting it reflects an impossibility, then sadly, the conversation closes here. It kills your demand as well for "show me" and leaves you with your new gods, whichever they may be and which ever form they manifest from your own mind. You are aware billions have hypnotized themselves into belief and disbelief, equally?
JamesAnd there you go again - making the assumption that I have not investigated the idea before rejecting it as nonsense. Why is that exactly?
Wowbagger accidentally became immortal. After outliving all his friends and generally acting like he was immortal, he got bored and decided to personally insult every sentient being in the Universe.
In person.
In alphabetical order.
So - you have not become an immortal?
You have not proven to yourself that you cannot die.
You definitely have not divested yourself of ego.
You are just like the Christians - claiming something unreasonable and not backing it up with anything. Too bad - if you actually had something to offer other than unreasonable claims and verbal attacks on others who do not share your irrational faith, I feel sure you would have offered it up.
Still - so far you have accused me of not investigating for myself, being intellectually dishonest and lazy. I was weaned on this mythical Jewish drivel.
Use some ancient Jewish words to impress me again.
Now - if you want to say, "the atoms that make us up at the moment will exist forever," I could go with that - but you are sadly mistaken if you think that what makes you, "you," will survive your physical death.LAWL! Again.You have not, thoroughly, else we would be having a much different series of conversations. You explored what? Several modes of theology, maybe science, possibly mysticism and majik and rejected them? lol That is your credence, your justification for rejecting immortality, really? Ridiculous and lazy are not even the words, then, to describe your still-existent religious dysfunction. Exploration void of Theos is what is required. If you doubt me on this, do check with the thinkers throughout history, who have approached his idea without the battle of reason to hinder them. Oh, and do let me know what you find.
Sound like something you would do, for certain. lol.
If I told you I have, but the thorough manifestation has not occurred, what would you care or better how would you confirm it? Also, keep in mind, I am not alone in this. There are many scattered around the planet that are experiencing the same thing. True, it was not as [we] anticipated, because of years of information overload -the Inception of ego- thanks to science and sensation, but nonetheless quite a change in body, brain and spirit. Some of the attributes are very evident. Some are not so evident.
Now, the question comes, can I die. The answer is yes. Will I die? That depends on how long I continue to indulge the standard//accepted mode of thinking and living -or balance between. Believe me, when I tell you, it has become exhausting to try and balance between the two. At the moment, am literally torn- because of my son. If not for him, most definitely things would go full throttle. But, as a man and dad, looking at him tells me he needs correct instruction of why he exists versus instruction other people will force on him, that will ultimately kill him. That is unacceptable, to me.lol. What exactly is irrational faith. Is there rational faith, then? lol. You are just spinning your wheels, big guy. Get out of your own way.So, because you were weaned on mystic drivel, means you are intellectually honest and not lazy? lol. Dear you, no wonder why you are still conflicted.Oh goodness, another swing from the pendulum. First from mystic, now to quantum physicist. Do you actually expect myself, or any one, to accept your nonsensical determinism as anything less than dishonest, lazy and just plain ridiculous? If you do, then your ego is the size of K2. Tell me again how your religion stops so many conflicts. lol. Tell me how you overcame the majik and mystic drivel again. Such an inspiring story. Tell us your finding and the white paper of your experience beyond Reason, that led you to dismiss immortality. Please, indulge us, won't you? Oh pretty please, great one. LAWL
JamesOh no - I stick with reason. Nothing else exists - sorry - no majik.
Ah - dishonest, lazy and just plain ridiculous to suggest that we die when we die? Triple laughie for you. (one up from LAWL)
See? This is why your religion causes so many fights.
I have asked you many times - and you have so promised - to show me instead of telling me. Repeating the same thing the Christians do, but they have itr wrong is not woring for me.
No - there is only irrational faith.- 4x
Precisely! Reason is the problem. What do you think is the root cause of all this --this stuff? Aliens, Evolution, Puff The Majik Dragon? lol. It is from Reason that Theos {science AND sensation} came. It is from Reason that either exist or are able. So, yes, keep "sticking to" Reason.
I have agreed, once before with you, that when a person dies, they die. Period. No argument there. How weaver, there is nothing, no evidence, no proof -none- that humans must die.
That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard from you. Irrational faith. That is the ultimate paradoxical. Irrational and rational come from the exact same place -Reason. A ration of good-evil; right-wrong; correct-incorrect, etc. So, it explains, again, why you are so conflicted. Faith has no part of Reason. Faith cannot be rational or irrational. and the only way to know you are using faith is practical application void of Reason.
Brrak! Your religion cannot stop conflicts. Brrak! your Reason causes wars.
Brrak! Walk the planks [of Theos]. lol.
Now, could you kindly move over, K2, you are blocking a beautiful sunset. Thanks.
James.Gotcha - throw reason out the window like the Christians say and then, oh wait - James saying stuff that makes no sense and he can't back it up with anything other than attacking anyone who does not agree.
Hmmm. This is the Theos you keep saying you don't subscribe to? LAWL!
No reason = irrational.
This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.
And any time you want to show me that there is a reason humans do not have to die - I am all ears, because that is an unreasonable claim you have made.
I read once about some experiments where they hypnotized some subjects and convince them they were immortal. They immediately lost interest in getting anything done, rationalizing that they could always do it tomorrow.
I remember Wowbagger. He was ahead of the game.
Hi Diane. Before we go any further , would you mind answerering a few questions? What do you think the Father's grace is? Most believers probably have an opinion (so do I), so I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer. Just let your heart speak. What race were the Egyptians of biblical times? How many times is the word " christian" used in your bible. Where did the word originate? Where does it say we are no longer under law? Where did the name "Jesus" originate? Finally, who is Sergius Paulus in Acts13:7? I think this would be a good beginning for the conversation that is surely coming. Shalum is ancient (original Hebrew), peace. Shalom is modern/Yiddish Hebrew, maybe Arabic? One more quick one. Elohim/god is modern/Yiddish. Why did they change the Most High's Name to god? Satan is even called the "god of this world". God is not only a title, it is also the name of the Babylonian deity of Fortune found in Isa.65:11 as gawd, god, or gud. Here again the interlinear is important for understanding important words. In the Hebrew text, you would notice the descriptive Name the Father used when speaking of another "deity": G_ d (look formiliar?) "But you are those who forsake Yahuah, who forget the alaph/ tau set-apart mountain, who prepare a table for G_d (gad,gud, gawd) and who fill a drink offering for Mny (isa.65"11). This is the same god that millions pray to each day out of not knowing. Many people think they are doing a service for the Father, but as you can see, His Name was never god, nor did He ever instruct His people to insult Him with such a nasty word. Yahuah is not god. God also pronounced as gad and gott, was a common word that was applied to superhumanbeings of heathen mythologies and comic books such as Hercules, Achiles, He-man, Superman the justice league (sorry fellas) Aquaman, the x-men an so on and so forth (yes, heroes are gods). The Egyptians had gods for everything and they even carried crosses. The word in itself denotes paganism. Why would we refer to Yahuah as god when He did not want us to mention their names Joshua23:6,7? Alahym is paleo Hebrew meaning Mighty one. These are some of the nuances that change meanings of Scripture. There are many, many, many more. Get the point? Shalum
Hi Robert! I know the Egyptians had dark skin. I know grace is a free gift (unmerited favor). If I thought expounding would be beneficial I would; however, I don't see the value. This goes into a debate or low key argument. It wouldn't be profitable for either of us. I learned a long time ago to not be put on the "defensive." Gotta go to my online class on Model Thinking. Have a good evening!
I'm not looking for an argument. I don't have to come here to get one. I have learned if you say anything on these threads, debate is going to happen. I' nan argumentative person, but I don't mind the sharing of viewpoints. I have read your posts and some I don't agree with. I'm sure you feel the same way, that's how we started talking. If I'm out of place for questioning what you said and asking questions, then you are right, there is no value. I usually choose to stay on the outside. But if there is a post that I find puzzling, flat out false information, or lacking, I might join in with my 2 cents. I try my best to temper what I say, obviously I'm not always successful. Shalum
God does NOT NOT NOT care what in the world we call Him or Her! in French he is Mon Dieu! Il est Mon Ami ou Elle est Ma Mere. Je vous adore.
God will respond if you call him Friend! Or Mother or Father! He knows every language, but He especially knows the language of a devoted heart. He is beloved Omnipresent Consciousness and creator of all
- existing in us, around us and is everything.
Just sharin'Sue, good to hear from you. Are you speaking for the Father or is this your opinion He does not care what you call Him. Show me where He says to call Him whatever. I totally agree, He understands all languages and His Name can be spoken properly in all languages. We know His Name is not Jehovah or Jesus. When the oldest manuscripts were written, the letter "J" did not exist in Hebrew or Greek. The word "lord" did not come into existance until the 13th century. THose words were not even used in the earlier Scriptures. A 1000 years! Man has a way of just saying anything and millions gobble it up like something good to eat, never questioning or taking a little time and putting in some quality research. If you study another christians writings on the subject and they were taught falsely, what do you think your result will be other than relaying the same false information. I have already shown you where the word "god" was pagan. At least we have cut out a few of the names we can call Him. But, to each his/her own. Shalum
"Cool, Steve!
Jesus said to call Him "Our Father", He also referred to Him... as Our Mother. But this reference was buried away in the dead sea scrolls. God is Mother, Father, Friend and Beloved.
He is Father/Mother of all that is. To get away from illusion one can intuit His/Her Spirit.
We cannot see the energy of Spirit with our own two eyes, although it has been said that the trees and the grass that we do see are His/Her hair. And the flowers and the birds are His/Her colors... And lions are His/Her power and elephants are His/Her sensitivity... and humans, potentially, are His/Her intelligence. Puppies are His/Her heart.
What can we "see" with the third eye of intuition? Our True Selves? Yes. and Our Creator? Yes.
Unless we are third eye blind.
We don't have to be!
Meditate!
Jesus said, "If Thine Eye be single Thy whole body will be full of light." What else could He have meant when he taught "Heaven is within?" Does the Koran mention Jesus saying, "Heaven is within?"Ms Hill, how are you? I really don't know if the Quran says anything about "Jesus" speaking on the kingdom within. I have not studied the book, only have read or heard a verse or 2 because I have some Muslim friends. As a matter of fact that term "kingdom within" is in none of the Scriptures I have other than the KJ (bless his heart). All the others say "among or in the midst".Since you brought it up, let's take a look at Luke17:21,22 and see if we can come to agree or agree to disagree. I'll use scripture to back up my opinion, but I rarely take the time to write them all out, so I hope you have not loaned out your Book, you may need it. I'm also going to try to be as brief as possible in stating my thoughts,so if you need me to fill in the blanks don't hesitate...The Greek word Yahusha (Jesus) used was entos (among, midst, within). He was talking only to the Pharisees, not His deciples. The question we must ask is does He mean for us to understand that the kingdon of heaven is within (inside of) the Pharisees? If not, then He must mean that it is among or in the midst of them, To avoid any misunderstanding, He refers in the texts to the individual human heart. Back up to read His evaluation of what was in their (Pharisees) hearts. These are the very same persons He addresses in Luke17:21. The earlier encounter we find in Luke16:14,15. Also look at Matt.23:21,23-27. Can the kingdom of heaven reside in those hearts? Yahuah (god) knows their hearts and He finds only abomination there. Now go back to Yahusha's only other use of entos (Matt.23:26).It should now be clear, the only things inside or within (entos) the Pharisees were: extortion and wickedness abomination in the sight of Yahuah. It plants an evil seed. A seed that has multiplied thru out christendomwhere so many believe that the kingdom is within the hearts of the Pharisees and themselves. The kingdom was not in those Pharisees, but where they in the kingdom? Matt.5:20, 7:21, 18:3, 19:23,24; Mark9:47, 10:23; Luke 18:24; John8:24 all clearly reveal the kingdom is not within.It is elementary, the kingdom is not inside anyone. If you have a relation to the kingdom, then you are INSIDE the kingdom. Previous exposure to false doctrine tends to blind you you to many aspects of the Word, and Luke17:21,22 is an excellent of this blindness in action. A lifetime spent in christendom, being exposed to the idea of the kingdom being within you, makes it difficult to see the fallacy of it. Is it important? No doubt (understatement). It goes to the issue of seeing the kingdom of Yahuah. Shalum
To Mark - I don't live by OT. It provides history; however, this is the Age of Grace. I have no problem with the Bible and my life as I live it. I can understand your concern about people wanting to kill you for ot being one of them. The Middle East is a prime example. All of the commotion about the low budget video that the idiot made. Tragic!
Robert - No, no, no! Why do I have to answer all of the questions? :-) If you answer mine, I will answer yours.
1) What do you believe?
2) Why?
3) Why do you care what I believe?
4) Do you study philosophy? (You have a lot of knowledge that I don't have. I don't think I need it but I'd like to know why you put so much time and thought into it)
Have you noticed that, even though we differ in opinion, we kind of grow on each other?Interesting. Jesus told you not to do that:
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:18-19HI Mark, This is a good question and there is a lot of commentary on it on line. See below
Until heaven and earth disappear"..... How can this mean all is accomplished at this point. Jesus finished what He came to earth to accomplish and it is finished, His work on the cross, but Jesus' own words here clearly states that the law is still active. The purpose for the law is the important factor.
The law, according to the book of Romans, is to show the sinner his sin. When we are walking by God's Spirit, living the way He directs us, there is no need for a set of rules to live by. He leads us in His ways, following his laws which are now written in our hearts. But if we are living in disobedience to God's ways, the law still is effective to show us this.
Edit: The answerer before me made an important point. Before you are too quick to criticize Christians for not keeping the law, you must understand that there is more than one type of law. Two important types is ceremonial and moral.
An example of the ceremonial law is the sacrifices that was done in the temple. After Jesus died, there was no longer any need for sacrifices. He himself became our sacrifice Lamb.
An example of the moral law would be the 10 commandments. This law shows us what God desires of us and is still effective today.
Women! Until 2000, I considered myself a Christian. I know He exists. Know different than many others, He revealed Himself to me. He left know doubt. You and other belivers know what I'm talking about. I only knew a handful of Scripture so I was not a student of the Book until then I was raised on the Holy Story, went to Sunday school, baptised, but I could not tell you anything other than basic knowledge that most kids of my day had about religion. Anyway, in 2000, when I met my wife, she gave me the first Book I could actually read. You know without the thee's, thou's, spake, verily, verily etc. It was written in 20th century English. This walk started then. I remember thinking how cruel I thought the Father was (I began at the beginning), but as I read on and more light was shed, I realized He wasn't cruel. He was severe. He laughed and He joked, but He did not play. One must realize the OT is not about love and grace. The OT is about obedience. Like in any household, the parents (we hope) lay down rules and regulations and there are consequences if you don't. My life had been proof of that. My wife was my chief librarian. She constantly came home with books I know He wanted me to read. I would go thru the stack and pick out the ones He knew would be beneficial on what He had planned for me. One day in about 02 I saw a program on tv and the guy was talking about who the true Hebrew people were. A little while before that I had asked the Father if I could be one of those 2 witnesses in Rev. That's when different knowledge about Him began to pick up. He led me to different faiths and religions and I learned that there were truth and false teachings in all. I asked for discernment and it was like the truth would just leap out at me. Now I just didn't become a TD Jakes. He was still working with me. There would be 2,3 years of diligent study, 6 mos. of doing my thing, but with control. His word and ways kept me well in check. He would let me know when to get busy again. I have been studying and fellowshipping with a gentleman for about 3 years now, whose job it was to get me ready for moments like this and the very serious events coming in the very near future. Our opinions have differences, but they are similar in many ways. It is just who you worship and how, that seems to be the biggest divide. It is truly important that one gain at least a working knowledge of the ancient languages to gain a better understanding of what the Scriptures are saying to you. I am going to relay what I have learned and it looks as if you are who I am going to go thru. I'm not going to sit here and say this is the truth. But I will say, this is the truth that has been brought to me. Actually nothing more than food for thought. I will also say it will behoove you to at least take a look. Some, if not a lot of the info, you may not like. It is going to be backed by Scripture, frank and straight to the point. If I may, let me say this. There is a hubber who just seems to irritate. I really don't agree with their religious beliefs but some of the seemingly far out things they have said rings so true. As a matter of fact there are a 2 or 3. Why I care about what you believe? First, I like you. You seem a genuinely good person. I haven't read anyone here that I dislike. There are a few that will test you, but... Differences of opinions, makes the world go 'round. No I'm no philosopher, merely a servant of the Most High hoping to bring some enlightenment to someone. The Book says the company will be small. I read that not 1 in 20 will make it to the next level. I believe that. I don't believe there is anything I will say that will make a naysayer change their position and may be none of the "believers" theirs. But I will have said what I feel He wants me to say (blood guilt). In a nutshell I hope I've answered your questions.Now, your turn, Shalum
Boundaries protect the inner life within for children and for adults. Boundaries are for the purpose of protecting one's very precious inner life. We can guide our wills for the purpose of spiritual evolution. Spiritual evolution refers to self mastery, enlightenment through intuition, and activation of the heart chakra. A lot of people seem to resist the notion of self discipline through setting and following boundaries. You have to understand that they are for the good things as mentioned above.
Just sharin'
PS Jesus said to love God. This is loving
reality
rather than illusion.I was asked some questions, on a public forum, by an individual who I had asked prior questions. The agreement was to answer their questions first. I did. I am now waiting on their response. I am aware that those who may have been following this thread may have read what I wrote. I am also aware that some may have seen the need to comment. No problem there. I don't feel I have said anything that has not been said before on HP. Frankly, I was expecting others to join the conversation when something other than ordinary dialogue became available. On that note, I really don't understand what you are talking about. I'm talking to someone else about something entirely different and here you come. I had not forgotten that you and I were also engaged. I was coming back. Just like you, I have other things on my plate. Patience my dear, what's the rush. On second thought, maybe you think I was referring to you about being found irritating. No, not yet. I will definitely let you know and I'm sure you will do the same. But I would appreciate if you would allow me to keep the 2 conversations separate. At least until this one gets going. Believe me, in my humble opinion, there will be more than enough for you to comment on. And your comments and anyone elses are welcomed as long as they are civil. Shalum
So sorry. I was chiming in to clarify the reasons for boundaries and why the 0T is so about them. It is hard to see who is talking to who sometimes. I was just commenting because I believe in boundaries and they are usually set for some good. Thats all. Thanks for answering the Question about heaven within.
PS As a boundary for myself, I will not to intrude into others' conversations.My mistake for not taking the time to read and re-read what you were saying to gain a better understanding. I enjoy the sharing of info with you and hope you feel the same. Shalum
Thanks Robert, BTW what gives you your interest in religion?
That's a good question Kathryn. I would have to say my life. I've been a believer my entire life even when I was doing the wrong things and I was doing the wrong things. In the Book, He says to test Him and I did. He brought me thru some seriously dark situations. After the last one, I asked Him to let me be one of the messengers and here I am.
Ah... I also was helped. Thanks for sharing your insights.
Geez Robert! I'm speechless. Now to be a woman of my word ... I don't have answers to most of your questions. "Christians" appear in King James 3x Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28, and I Peter 4:16
Gods - there are many. Satan god of this world - right, money can be a god, all religions have a god of some sort
My God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes. Deuteronomy 10:17. I hope you don't mind. I will start calling your name in my prayers asking the Lord to bless you.
I think that if it had been so important for Christians to know and use the absolute proper name, then both Jesus and Paul would have recorded teachings stressing that. Neither do. As I've said elsewhere, it is important that we understand that we are not calling on the Muslim god or the Hindu god. But most people understand that.
There was a man once, very controversial in the church, who claimed that all people worship God simply by breathing. That our breath is basically YavEh, and that we continuously worship God whether we are Christian or not. I thought it was cute. I think his name is Rob Bell.
Rob Bell also cites sources for religions that I cannot find other than in his stuff.
Rob Bell is the influential found and former head pastor of Mars Hill Church in southern California. He adopted a view called "Christian universalism" that holds that everybody claiming to be a Christian will get into Heaven. Often, he sound like he thinks everybody will get into Heaven, no matter who they are or what they've done. In many ways, he's a rock star on the lecture circuit. But he's also a sloppy researcher.
Actually, you would be correct in that the Hebrew term 'breath' or 'breathe' means to have the force of all life within. This is described in Genesis at human formation and reiterated in the testimony of Yon. another way of saying this is ruach, pneuma, ohm. It is the vibration of all creation or Spirit which is creation.
However, worship itself does not imply humans focused on Creator, even having that breath. The breath is involuntary whereas worship is voluntary. Explains why there are a vast array of worship applications toward g/Gods and such. Whatever one is fixated on and meditates on -be it a thought, a feeling, a text, an object, etc- is defined as what one worships.
Am not familiar with Rob Bell. Must investigate...
James.That's really interesting because that is what differentiated Adam from the rest of creation. Unlike the humans of Genesis 1 who naturally evolved, Adam was created and then given the breath of life. What made Adam unique was his ability to behave of his own will, outside of God's. He, in affect, was the first 'creator' in God's creation.
It also says during the flood account that the flood was meant to kill all who had the 'breath of life' in them. We now know the flood wasn't global. There was actually a small number of descendants of Adam/Eve, and only they would have the 'breath of life' in this sense. And only they, being creators, were capable of wickedness.
I do so agree, God has a name and should be addressed as such but we can call him Yahweh or Jahovah his name in the old hebrew scriptures was represented as YHWH. I wish people would call him that when they pray instead of God, God is just a title and anyway there are three gods. Satan who is the god of this system, Jesus who is a god in his own right and the Creator Jahovah.
True, "G/gods" have names.
But, the one that is all things has no name, that is why Moshe was told ehyeh asher ehyeh or I am that am I. It reads the same either direction -like the word kayak- symbolizing the alpha-omega, the never ending.In other words, Ineffable.
Now, can one name or title what is ineffable? What was not created? No.
Anything created, can be titled, can be named -like g/Gods for example.
James.
It is well known that the Hebrew letters of the name of the Almighty is YHWH, and it is also known that the true name with the vowels added is Yehowah, and as you will notice the name has no hard consonates in it. It is like our very breath when you say the name. So I think the name is very important, if we truly are seeking God. There have been many variant names thrown about to cause confusion. If you go to Israel now, the language teachers will try to presuade you to accept that the W is now a V, this is done so no one is calling upon the true name. But there are still Hebrew people that do remember and know his name, those are the ones that have been persecuted.
Did not Yehowshuwa, his son, say that when we pray we should say...
Luke 11:2 KJV
And he said unto them, When ye pray , say , Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Zechariah 13:9 KJV
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined , and will try them as gold is tried : they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say , It is my people: and they shall say , YEHOWAH is my God.I think it's important to an extent. People who are calling on the One, True God should not be calling on Allah, or Krishna. But if you're reading the Bible and the Holy Spirit is speaking to you, if you call Him 'God' or 'Lord' then He knows who you're talking to. That's the important thing.
ro-jo-yo, If the BIble is wrong about the name for God, I wouldn't believe anything in it because it is either all or none. All translations are parallel as far as I know. It's like going to court. If you tell one lie, that casts doubt on everything you say.
Using the correct name once a person knows it is essential. Why would you use any other. As for the title 'God' in Hebrew this word written as 'Gad' pronunced as Gawd, is a name of a deity of Fortune. And as for using the word LORD that could mean anyone, Baal is also translated as Lord. The British have "Lords".
The Messiah Yehowshuwa (which is the true Hebrew name of the Messiah, which literally means Yehowah's loud call to freedom) told us how to pray and that we are to hallow our Father's name.
John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 29 The people therefore, that stood by , and heard it, said that it thundered :
When the Messiah was asked what the greatest commmand was:
Mark 12:29 And Yehowshuwa answered him, The first of all the commandments , Hear, O Israel; Yehowah our God is one Yehowah:
30 And thou shalt love Yehowah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this the first commandment.
31 And the second like, this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
I have inserted the Almighty's name like it would have been in the Hebrew script, and as you see Yehowshuwa is quoting from Deutromony which is in the Torah. So Yehowshuwa said his Father's name.Then why did neither Jesus, nor Paul, nor John, Matthew or Mark or Peter, ever stress that we MUST, MUST, MUST use the correct name of God, original Hebrew, no variations or dialectic differentials, otherwise we are not calling on the Father and He will not hear us?
Why didn't they stress the trinity? Chris, we each will live or die, by our decisions on this matter (true Name) and many more, fiery hell, immortal soul, Jesus is god, the rapture, some even believe Jesus is an angel.(well, he might be but Mashyach isn't) to name a few. Christianity has many false teachings. You have chosen your path, I have chosen mine. Let us agree to disagree.Shalum
To understand what the truth is one must first seek our Father Yehowah, our Creator, .. Atheist are doomed from the start because they don't believe in a Creator. And Christians are doomed because they follow not the Almighty's word. They follow Jesus Christ a false god, they are baptized and have taken an oath to Jesus Christ.
Deuteronomy 4:29 KJV
But if from thence thou shalt seek YEHOWAH thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
1 Chronicles 28:9
...for YEHOWAH searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.
Psalms 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt , they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. 2 YEHOWAH looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand , and seek God. 3 They are all gone aside , they are all together become filthy : there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge ? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon YEHOWAH.
Proverbs 28:5 KJV
Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek YEHOWAH understand all things.
Psalm 105:3 KJV
Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek YEHOWAH.
Amos 5:8
Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: YEHOWAH is his name.ro-jo-ho, may I ask who else believes this other than you.
Zechariah 13:9 KJV
And I will bring the THIRD part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined , and will try them as gold is tried : they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say , It is MY PEOPLE: and they shall say , YEHOWAH is my God.
Revelation 18:4 KJV
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying , Come out of her, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
You think religion had anything to do with 9-11? Where's your proof of that?
Yes, religion had everything to do with 9/11! What was the last thing the Islamo-fascists said before they slammed planes into the World Trade Center? Allah Akbar! Its one tape. Just another example of the hated relgions causes.
LMAO! Oh, I'm interested in this tape. Tell me the proof of the existence of this tape? I'll let you on a secret. If a Muslim says, "Allah Akhbar!", NORAD automatically stands down and allows planes to hit a no-fly zone. It's kind of like, "Open Sesame!"
Hey, would you like me to start a forum thread about this topic in the September 11 category? Since you are so good at debating and stuff?Clarie Evans, your response does not make sense. The Islamo-fascists who captured the planes of September 11 were singing 'Allah Akbar!' as the planes approached the twin towers on September 11, 2001. It was the last recorded messages from the cockpit before impact.
According to whom? I read in the newspaper that unicorns were the pilots. I mean, it has to be true if it is in the media.
Can you give me some evidence of these tapes, please?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … lanes.html
4) United Airlines Flight 93
"At 10.01, Jarrah repeats "Allah is the Greatest!" before asking another hijacker: "Is that it? Shall we put it down?"
His ally replied: "Yes pull it down".
Jarrah rolled the plane onto its back, with shouts of "Allah is the Greatest" continuing in the cockpit.
The counter-attack could still be heard as the Flight 93 plunged downwards, crashing just after 10.03 into an empty field in Pennsylvania, 20 minutes' flight time from Washington.
As the 9/11 Report concluded: "Jarrah's objective was to crash his airliner into symbols of the American Republic He was defeated by the alerted, unarmed passengers of United 93.""
This is just an account from the black box, I haven't found the tape yet, and I don't have time to look right now, to be fair both could have been fabricated.Rad Man, I'm not responding to you as you are not worth my time. Don't bother in future. If Brian points out what you have, I will address it. I'm also concerned that I will be blocked because this is going off topic so I want to start a discussion in the appropriate forum.
ha ha ha ha ha. You're upset because I showed you something about yourself you don't like or want to acknowledge. That's okay, but I have to keep showing others the faults of your argument when we cross paths.
What's that? The Olympics business? Wait for my hub about that! That wasn't the reason I ignored you, though. It's because of the Chris business.
I have posted a forum about 9-11 now. Go to it and provide me with your stunning argument.I was referring to the manner in which you treated Chris.
I'm going to hold my tongue on this one. I will not start another fight. Now go off and provide your stunning argument on Al Qaeda being responsible for 9-11.
Rad Man, I appreciate the support but it's time to let that one go. Claire is who she is.
No, I didn't. This is what you wrote:
"You're upset because I showed you something about yourself you don't like or want to acknowledge"
You said this was in reference to how I treated Chris. As Chris said, drop it now.Ahh, but before that you said.
"Rad Man, I'm not responding to you as you are not worth my time. Don't bother in future. If Brian points out what you have, I will address it. I'm also concerned that I will be blocked because this is going off topic so I want to start a discussion in the appropriate forum."
Isn't this so much fun?I've got to draw decision tree to follow what's happening between Rad Man and Claire. You guys!
You are being extremely childish. Cut it out.
I am lost as an Easter egg. The point of the quotes by the terrorists mean what? I might have missed something. I noticed current comments are mixed in with old comments.
Allahu akbar is an Arabic phrase meaning, roughly, "God is great!" and is often repeated by Muslims. It is also often repeated by suicide bombers or terrorists who believe they are serving God's cause by blowing themselves up and taking infidels with them. Some strains of Islam teach that you can guarantee entry into Paradise by shedding your own blood battling enemies of Islam, which is a rationalization for suicide bombing.
That comment was directed only to Claire and involved a previous conversation about Chris. Sorry.
Come here:
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/103896
Its true Claire, they were either yelling "Allah Akbar!" or "Alluha Akbar!" ive been getting mixed results but either way tied to religion. This was during 9/11 and other events.
oh lol sorry wrong article.
find islamic extremism usage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah_akbarAfter 9/11, the FBI released a letter reportedly handwritten by the hijackers and found in three separate copies on 9/11—at Dulles, at the Pennsylvania crash site, and in Mohamed Atta's suitcase. It included a checklist of final reminders for the 9/11 hijackers. An excerpt reads: "When the confrontation begins, strike like champions who do not want to go back to this world. Shout, 'Allahu Akbar,' because this strikes fear in the hearts of the non-believers." Also, in the cockpit voice recorders found at the crash site of Flight 93, the hijackers are heard to be reciting the Takbir repeatedly as the plane plummeted toward the ground and the passengers attempted to retake control of the plane.[5][6][7][8]
You can't be serious. So the hijackers just conveniently left these clues for the FBI to find. Why would they need reminding to say, "Allah Akbar!"? The FBI claimed they also found one of the hijacker's passport in the rubble. What luck!
There was no fight for the controls. Rumsfeld said the plane was shot down.
Please refer a response to my appropriate forum thread.
Atheist, saying tied to "religion' is like being tied to "people or chldren, or Asians.' Religion is very broad a term for what happened 9/11.
Yes, but the motivation for most, if not all, of the hijackers on 9/11 was religious. They believed that they were striking a blow against the "Great Satan" (the US) because Osama bin Laden believed that America would cower and hide if we got hit on our home turf. He was present in Somalia during the time of 'Black Hawk Down' and saw the loss of a 'mere' 19 people caused President Clinton to pull our troops out and return home. He reasoned based on this that if he killed a bunch of people on American soil that Americans would reckon it too costly to keep troops in the Middle East and pull out altogether.
9/11 really have more to do with fear, control, politics, and hatred of the US.
That's a very profound psychological analysis. Evil is a very real thing, and whatever motives you might want to ascribe to Osama bin Laden, I think it's a huge mistake to try to leave his religion out of it.
I know Muslims are suppose "kill" the infidels. This is one of the religions you are "born" into and endoctrinated early. Anyone who will kill him/herself to kill other people has real mind control problems.
Be that as it may, once you say that they were doing it because of brainwashing, you open a couple of doors you might rather not have opened. I'm talking specifically about those who think that all religion is 'brainwashing,' and also to deny the existence of true, horrific evil.
I'm not interested in denying the existence of evil, but I am curious what you mean by it.
I doubt it would surprise you to learn that I believe there is an embodiment of evil called Satan, although I don't just mean that. I don't believe in "the devil made me do it." We are all responsible for our own actions. And there are humans who, either singly or corporately, do evil things. The Nazi Death Camps, for example (which is an example of my belief, because eveyone who went on trial at Nuremburg claimed they were simply following orders, that they bore no responsibility for their own actions.)
Even philosophies which are all about love and peace and feeding the hungry and putting shoes on people with no shoes on their feet and housing the people living in the street (to kind of quote Steve Miller) can have unintended and inhuman consequences. Jonestown, for example.
Two more quick things: I am not trying to revive the long-winded discussions about who or what satan supposedly is. I believe he exists, but I don't believe he forces us to do things. And I'm not shrinking from the excesses or atrocities committed in Jesus' name, either. They are legion, and the men who committed those acts are not sitting in Heaven right now. Nor will they be after Judgement day.
Im not sure what you mean by saying, tied to "religion' is like being tied to "people or chldren, or Asians.' Im also not sure what you mean by, Religion is very broad a term for what happened 9/11. Im not saying religion is the reason it happened, im saying it was a component of 9/11.
A fabulous bit of agitprop! Just fabulous!
I know some Muslims here in Texas and they are very very normal and Americanized people. As for abroad I believe some have been radicalized by people who hate America and are using religion to recruit soldiers. But I don't believe the general populations of the predominanetly Islamic countries want war or to conquer the world with religion. If they were like that they would have killed every American over there and we'd have pulled everyone out long ago.... I have a good friend who lives in Iraq and he is Jewish. He's not afraid.
I want to be clear that I was pointing out that the 9/11 hijackers believed they were performing religiously pious acts. I have not known many Muslims personally but the ones I have known don't seem at all inclined toward suicide bombing. And judging from what I've seen and heard, most Muslims worldwide aren't either. If a Muslim reads this and I sound a little condescending, I apologize, I don't mean to be. But the discussion turned specifically to those men who hijacked the planes on 9/11.
I understand. I personally believe religion gave those pilots the courage to do what they did; but I believe they did it for the following reasons: 1) Our unconditional support of Israel 2) The first Iraq War 3) The plight of the Palestinian people which I guess could be combined with #1
If you ever get a chance Google bin Laden's alleged statement on the attack. It is very revealing.
If I had some ham I could have some ham and eggs, if I had some eggs.
If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt when he hopped.
If I climbed the what if tree, I could be there all day long...BTW, that was in response to the OP. I see now that things are way off course.
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