I haven't been active on Hub Pages for a while, but have made a lot of friends here.
Hi to everyone who knows me - and also to those who don't.
I've recently become aware that quite a few of the more intelligent and helpful members of the community have been banned for what I understand to be petty recrimination for posts that they have made on various forums.
So I just set up a facebook group where banned HP members can go to keep in touch with each other while you wait out your suspension in the HP "Sin Bin"
So far there's Mark K. and Ernest in there, and they want some of their friends to join them.
So if you want to keep in touch with the peopl who are temporarily not allowed to post here, please apply to join this private group.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=gro … 3&ap=1
(Pastafarians very welcome)
Ernest got banned? When did that happen?
Mark gave a lot back to HP - very sad to see him banished. Hopefully it's a temporary thing?
Kind of makes me want to not come to the forums anymore. Yikes! Banned for comments in forums? OK Backing out of here now.
Someone who makes money on hubpages should look at it as a being similar to a business or a place of work. I make money here, and I make money at work, and at my job I wouldn't go participating in religious or philosophical arguments, or anything that could ultimately prove detrimental to my relationship with either my supervisors or my work as a whole. So I have learned to treat Hubpages the same way and to keep it professional and disciplined.
To be on the safe side. I stay away from forums of income-generating sites like HP entirely.
IRL, I seldom go to office parties unless it is mandatory. Then I just walk around a few times to ensure that the boss has seen me and leave to have some fun time with my friends.
I have had these exact same thoughts, and whilst I am new, alot of things that I have wanted to write, I have taken panstaking time over to ensure that I am not offensive to anyone as you say this is a proffessional place.
There are a lot of hubbers I've seen using baits to ban other members, among your 'friends' on that FB. So no thanks, I'll pass!
It seems you don't really know what was going on around here. Or maybe you do ? I wonder...
My id is not banned but I can't joint forum for several days, I don't know why, I got the message when replying the topic on forum. Bad Experience.
Good Idea Eric - I'm missing Mark and Earnest around the forums!
alternate poet is on permanent ban - but cannot access Facebook from China Luckily, he is me so not so bad, although I hanker after the other guys sometimes.
"luckily he is me" ?
Do you mean that is one of your alternate Ida? I would have expected that banning one would affect all.
I think I have had two three day and one seven day ban. I understood two of those but did not agree with the other, so now I feel like I have to walk on eggshells.
The "You have been banned for comments you made in this thread" can be vague - which comment?
I have mixed feelings about all of this. I understand the motives but am not sure it really accomplishes anything. Banning spammers, yes, but insults seems pointless to me.
Banning one would affect all - HP police were very kind and pointed out that it was against the rules to have two and asked which one I would like to keep. That I have two is a completely open secret - I state this in my profile even - but it took a slimy 'grassing up' complaint to prompt any action - christians losing arguments often revert to type I notice, and the ganging up to 'report' is also a normal trick.
did you use both your alter egos in the same forum? Accidently or deliberately?
Wasn't alternate poet started when you as china man got banned? LOL Ironic.
I've never been banned, but I am a pastafarian! Can I still join? (I think I can arrange a ban if necessary.)
Sure. Sending you a message.
AP was already in the making as a place where I could put just poetry - then the first ban arrived for telling somebody they were 'in bed' with someone else - and their deliberate misinterpretation and screaming about how they were a married woman religious of course.
And them damn Ozzie's deserve banning just for the outrageous words they use that nobody understands - just in case they are talking about us
why are some banned temporarily while some are banned for life?
That's a grand idea Eric. Put my request in as I may need it someday myself. My sin has been forgiven, I think.
Mark told me it was for a month for calling someone a monkey. LOL
In the context of a thread about evolution, that may have even been quite appropriate.
I think that might be too much. Devoid of context, maybe. In context, I don't see the harm.
people need to learn not to take things personally. it's an online forum. I can understand some of the hate/racist comments, but a monkey?? I wondered where Mark was.
And I've seen much worse insults go unpunished. I guess it depends how whiney the person who reported it is... Some people treat every disagreement as a personal insult.
I would have thought that HP staff would have a bit more maturity as to deciding whether to ban people or not.
Or is there a quota system or something, where "3 complaints = 2 weeks ban.
6 complaints = 4 weeks ban".
If HP are operating with this sort of system, then it would be very easy for people to club together and get somebody banned.
So true UW, and his remark was, like mine, so innocuous. I think his ban was to the extreme for it myself.
I don't know whether bans are temporary or permanent.
I don't know why the bans have taken place.
I'm not interested in the politics of it.
That's one of the reasons why I have made myself scarce from HP for quite a while.
What I DO know is that good people are being banned by HP, and not permitted to take part in the forums.
So I set this up as somewhere that they can keep communicating with others who are interested, during the time that they are not permitted to post here.
@Ralwus: I can't put a request in.
You will have to go to the link in my first post, and request membership to the Facebook group.
One of the group admins will then approve the request.
(There's a few people now who have joined)
And yes, you'll need a facebook account and use it to join the group.
Quite a few new members now!
All have been approved so far :-)
Nice group shaping up there!
Wonder if I'll be banned for starting this thread ?
went there out of curiosity was surprised earnest was banned.
Looks like you're quite happy with "banning" as long as you're the one in charge of it.
For the record, HubPages used to have a much more lenient rules in the forums. It was in response to complaints about nastiness/personal attacks being allowed to stand that we changed our policy. We strive to apply the policy without preferential treatment for one group or another. If you see something which escapes our attention, please flag it. There are simply too many posts per day for us to read each one.
If the moderator(s) were a bit clearer on some of the bannings, it would probably help more than anything! But I am sorry, some of the bans are utterly confusing as to why the particular post caused a ban.
You make it sound as if is the luck of the draw on the forums whether one gets banned or not! Not very encouraging at all! Let the "E"s help out if you need more moderators. Surely someone in the HP hierarchy can come up with a better system than this one!
We try to be clear to the person involved should he or she contact us about it, but we do not announce bans or make the reasons for any ban public.
I don't know what I said that gave you the impression that it's the luck of the draw. By no means. But we do count on the community to flag rules violations in the forums, to a certain extent, to bring them to our attention.
Perhaps in some instances the moderators are clear in their notices, in my case they were not. I was put in a position of having to contact the other banned members to assure them I didn't report them so as to not cause more strife than the actual banning.
I contacted staff to inform them of my concerns but they apparently didn't have time to respond.
What you said to make me think it was the luck of the draw was your asking assistance for suspected infractions. If some were not slipping by (and you may or may not admit some do) then you would not need help. If one is lucky, he or she might get by with insults if the moderator isn't reading every thread.
I'm one of the moderators on a a large internet marketing forum. (No, not Warriors :-) )
I have recently explained in detail why I have deleted some posts, why I have not deleted posts that on the surface of it appear similar, and why people get banned.
To me, these explanations clear the air, and give people more certainty about what they can and can't do.
By not making your reasons public gives fertile ground for all sorts of theories about what is going on behind the moderators cloak.
This is a common rule for any internet group, forum, etc.
It's not the rule that is the problem - it's the application of it. And it would appear that many people believe that it's not being applied consistently at HP.
As is evident, I don't post here much any more. I have the utmost respect for the difficulty of your task as a HP moderator, and know that it's impossible to please everyone.
I don't know about the criteria used for bannings, and I'd agree that Mark Knowles and Earnest and a few others can be major pains in the neck if it suits them.
But anyway, if some positives can come out of this discussion, that would be great.
Maddie this sounds like a fair policy.
Thank you for the effort to provide us with a great place to engage in educated and civil discussions.
It's ok Arthur - You are always civil and you getting banned is as likely as me winning the lottery !!!!!! No need for you to to grovel
Play your numbers, I have been banned three times!
The last one was for four weeks. I do not "grovel" to anyone!
My bannings was because HP felt that it was appropriate, then it is what it is, I must have been wrong. It is their forums and I respect their authority!
Just pulling your virtual leg young Arthur
I have absolutely no respect for authority and this gets me into deep doo doo both in these forums and in life - most of the time, I have a fantastic, slightly dishevelled and always interesting life based on being mildly innapropriate most of the time
Though I have never been banned and never hope to be, it seems that many of the most interesting people have to go through this. I sent my request it will be nice to be able to keep in touch with the banned folks.
I don't know you, but you have passed the entrance test.
I think all the fun is taken out of HP when the more outspoken members get banned. At least they are the ones who are willing to talk about what really matters instead of the crappy threads about nonsense.
I understand the site needs to keep things peaceful but I honestly think that they go to extreme sometimes too.
I have to agree. The phrase "redeeming social value" comes to mind, as does the value of satire and humor.
Maybe one forum should be a free speech zone where anything but spamming and overt racism/ hate speech is tolerated? Might be fun to see what happens in such a pen.
That's the way the HubTribe was - seriously fun but there has to be a little controversy now and then - we all agreed with each other so much that it sorta turned into a "hi, howareya" place and got boring. But if people want to shock each other, and call each other names, good grief, why?
Maybe there are certain trigger words or phrases one can use that gets them banned. b/c I've made very harsh, sweeping indictments on the deeply held beliefs of many and have never been banned to my knowledge.
When the insults go out and are personalized directly at someone by using the pronoun "you", that's when it goes over the line.
The following example is NOT from a forum, it's just what I consider 'over the line'.
Example: "Your idiotic belief in some superhuman entity is as underdeveloped as the ape you came from; which makes you that: a monkey in human skin, or perhaps maybe not that smart".
Here is an example of how the above statement could have been worded as to not be so offensive:
Example: "I believe your belief in a superhuman entity to be ridiculous. We came from apes & if you don't believe it, that's your business, but the facts speak for themselves. Go read your textbooks".
I do not hold these beliefs above. I'm merely trying to point out how a supposedly intelligent discussion/debate can be worded in a way as to not offend the sensitivities of others & can still make the point. If those who made statements like these would apply their gifts of communication in a less offensive manner, it would prevent those who have been offended to take such a defensive stance as to actually have to report the one who made the statement.
This is a good way to deal with one aspect of htis issue. The bigger problem is that some people 'report' as a form of attack - usually on losing an argument.
I was banned for telling someone that they were 'in bed' with another - they were 'vocally' incenced but clearly knew what the common phrase means and infers -I got a 3 day ban.
Yeah, that is just ridiculous. HP ought to have more sense than that.
I don't think it is an issue of sense - more of how many people hit the report button and how much time the mod has to read and understand.
I think that's it in a nutshell. The HubPages team is small and it's understandable if sometimes, they make decisions on the run - especially on the Forums, which (let's remember) are only an adjunct to HubPages, not its main purpose.
The big problem with that is that the moderators don't take the time to read back in the thread, to find out why the personal attack happened. Often they've been baited into an outburst, yet the person who did the baiting gets off scot-free.
Maybe the moderators do read back in the thread, but the baiter managed to word their goading in such a way that it didn't actually break any rules - but to allow them to get away with that is wrong, IMO. Because that's when we get people saying that certain people are immune, or others are being picked on.
From what I've seen, the HubPages team do seem to be applying the "no personal attacks" rule very strictly - just saying "you're stupid" to someone is enough to trigger it. Donotfear hit the nail on the head - you can call someone's idea or story stupid, but you can't use that word "you".
I've found that as organisations grow, common sense gradually gets replaced by systems and rules.
We have a 'online Gang' of malcontents? I is afeared now. So many forked tongues that can incite, use and weave confusion into others for the purpose of banning the rational minded. What does that say? where are we going? such good people getting banned from others havin a temper tantrum? geeez. its good that you have a site for them. Great idea!
I suppose the "forked tongue" bit was for my benefit eh, DS? Malcontents? Rational minded? Incite, weave confusion, temper tantrum?
This could actually be considered a personal attack! Oh, I see, you want to get banned so you can join the group! LOL!
I just opted out of the SinBin - Proudly Banned Facebook group because (a) facebook kept sending me emails everytime anyone did anything even though I had turned of the email from Proudly Banned and (b) the stuff being said was boring and just not even interesting and mainly one on one conversations between people - I don't need to go there to be ignored, I can be ignored here! where I'm used to it! So if anyone is wondering - that's why - its a silly group anyway full of people who are just hanging around watching.
(a) I've turned off the notifications, and don't receive those messages. Is it at all possible you may have not done it properly?
(b) Yes, it's conversations between people who are not able to talk to each other on HP.
Exactly what was advertised on the box.
What is it that you were expecting?
I see that you have made almost 10,000 posts in 14 months.
That's an average of about 25 per day. I'm sure that they were all very interesting, rivetting,, and entertaining to those who read them.
I wrote a forum thread on my theory of empty vessels some time ago. Maybe you should look it up sometime and let us know your thoughts.
Hey Randy I surf the forums and see stuff that is said but do refrain from saying anything. I could easily take offence and sometimes do feel that but then I figure adhd or some other disorder comes to mind lol so I just ignore them you know that quote - Don't try to fight with a idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. no offence intended, btw. I think you do well, Maddie but is good keep in mind also - we can get easily manipulated by others.
No problem, DS! No one is forced to enter the forums, nor to read them for that matter. I do believe in being as polite as the other fellow...er snake, but some are too sensitive and get angry.
I think anyone that takes regular glee and practice in successfully banning their fellow members is the problem and should be questioned. Just mho
Well, least the Sin Bin will allow the banished to compare notes. could easily learn about the psyches involved better if copies of the complaint is made available to the banished too. least be given opportunity for a fair hearing? lol
Now you've got it! Now we can get the particulars of the ban and decide for ourselves if it was merited. Yes, I know it makes no difference to HP, as we have no power to appeal the ban, but at least you get input from others concerning the cause.
Now do I look like your everyday, run of the mill, malcontent?
Once I was banned - when I asked the staff to tell me why, they referred me to the actual post in the forums and what I said that was offensive and a personal attack - it involved the word "stupid" that was ok with me and I was happy to have the answer, but didn't really care whether anyone else knew what was said or where, and no one really cared about it either. They were surprised I'd fallen into a bait and push trap, but I had. Aren't most forums like this? If someone gets banned it isn't really anyone else's business is it? It's obvious to me, now that I've been here a little longer who the baiters are and where they hang out and so I just stay out of their way. You want those baiters to be banned? But then, that would mean more rules, wouldn't it? and also, what is bait for one isn't for others - how would you word this new rule against baiting? I just don't see how it could be done. It doesn't do a lot of good for the banned to go rehash it with each other, does it? Will they establish a blacklist against some "bad" hubbers or something? How does that work?
Top secret! You are not allowed to ask! You have been banned from the facebook group because you are suspected of being a mole!
A mega-mole, as a matter of fact!
No, nothing as exciting as that.
She just had a look around, decided it wasn't for her, and decided to leave. (as has been discussed earlier in this thread)
of course I'm not a mole or spy or anything - if so I would have stayed on the facebook page and acted all interested! but actually I wouldn't do that because it would take time away from my "empty vessel" posting in the HubPages forums, which is obviously where I belong - hey, haven't gotten in my 25 posts today! I must be slipping!
Maybe this is relevant to the topic - after posting a few times to balance the vitriolic attack of two hubbers on paarsurrey in this thread
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/55098?p … ost1290040
which consists of a torrent of rage and abuse and ranting personal attacks on paar - I got this reply from Libby101
Whatever you say China man! Apparently you like following me around and posting to my comments? Isn't this against the rules to follow someone and harrass them? Hmmm???
I do recall posting a few replies - but less than is my 'norm in resposnse to themore ridiculous posts in the religious threads.
This threat is not new and always from fundie type Christians - so call me a conspiracy theory lover if you like but if it smells like it, tastes like it - then it probably is what you think it is. Maybe HP should look again at the reasons some of the prominent and valuable members of HP are in the sin-bin at the moment, and all at the same time ???
some people get quite emotional and it shows through - because they take a statement that challenges their belief system as a personal attack
I think that is an automatic human reaction.
But the only real way to grow as a person is to develop the ability to put that to one side, evaluate new information that may challenge what you believe, try new things, and make changes accordingly.
Well what can I say China man. I have also noted how many people insinuate, use condesending flavors in their replies ... and the usual suspects fall foul.
TBH - those getting banned should steer clear. You cannot educate carrots. If an individual has a deep seated belief in anything, you're not going to change their world.
They won't listen or hear your voice. I know to some degree there's an argument for debate in all things. But it's counter productive when a ban follows suit. I would imagine it would please many to see some silenced permantently.
That then defeats the object.
I still don't see how HP admin can follow each and every thread to effectively identify cause and effect. It would be difficult to be 100% clear in every case so I understand their current viewpoint. As it stands, it's the best fit.
Some of the more active debates run into page after page. There'd need to be a lot of scrolling back in order to understand the full picture.
I do think there's a case for looking at a hubbers overall input. And I'm not talking favoritism, I'm talking about community participation. This is a 'write and publish' site after all.
Those that publish little or nothing, yet persist in wandering the sub-forums and posting in thread after thread, reply after reply, are not really here to utilize all that HubPages has to offer. Do they provide help and assitance for the hubber community? Do they add to the site's base ethos in any way?
To that end - there are countless forums out there that are purely for the purpose of posting at will, with no emphasis on anything other than discussion and debate.
I don't mean the sub forums should be removed, only that those that use them use the rest of the site as it was intended. And this is not about publishing hundreds of hubs, this is about contributing across the board. If all those that successfully publish here, for whatever reason, removed all their content and went elsewhere, it would become a forum only.
Business would drop, ranking would tank. Not that it's going to happen of course - just ideal world stuff
No reason for posting, other than I think the above is the best post in this whole thread,by far.
Yes, our eloquent Frog has provided an excellent analysis.
However, is it just my imagination, or are the numbers of evangelical threads increasing along with the number of ads for some god based product ? This seems to go hand in hand with the number of times lately that I have seen some slimy kristian threatening to 'report' over the most trivial challenge to their nonsense.
An Excellent, well thought out discussion. Well done Ms. Frogdropping.
Nope, I've already made up my mind about everything and I am always right
Well, actually not. I really am open to hearing reasoned, sane arguments. Unfortunately, they are very few and far between in the religion and politics forums.
Nice to see a Tasmanian devil. (If that's been used earlier then I apologise). I've been banned three times from Squidu forums (I'm innocent guv!Honest!)
I'm currently banned for life (I think). I've tried to get banned from Hubpages, but they seem more reasonable and understanding than aforementioned. Still, there is still time, and I'm trying hard.
Just trying to post there from the Philippines is a job. They banned the whole country. And I thought I had problems! Still, I got my pennyworth here somehow.
Nice post mate...I feel comforted!
A lot of members, like me, haven't been banned, just find the forums uninteresting
I'm sure the forums feel the same way about you! LOL!
Do you think you will ever grow up?
Let's hope not. Growing up is one of the worst things that you can let happen to yourself.
Some say that life is a serious business and that is a reason to grow up. That is a serious mistake in judgment.
If you have accidentally grown up, it is said to be possible, though admittedly quite difficult, to grow down. I cannot think of anyone who has ever done that, though. For that reason, I think it is safer never to grow up at all.
I'll be 63 in February and have avoided this so far. I remain watchful for signs and will take whatever actions are necessary. I'm pretty sure Randy feels the same way.
Actually, I'm fairly serious. If you lose your inner child, you have lost something very important.
You are never to old to be silly, to giggle, to have wonder. You are never too old to trust, to skip, to lie down in the grass, to play hooky..
Never let go of that child.
Not growing up means :
1- That you don't know how to love another truly
2- You don't know how to forgive
3- You don't know what your responsibilities are
4- You constantly lie
5- You don't know what living is about
6- You don't have any conscience of death and what it means.
This list is completely a** about face - to be child is to really know how to love truly, forgive totally and unconditionally, to be without responsiblity, and the rest - well I can only guess that you were never a normal child.
People who have killed their inner child want the rest of us to do the same.
As a child at heart, I fully agree with you, CM!
I know this sounds odd coming from me, but I completely and 100% agree with you. It seems to me, that it is when someone loses their child like innocence or qualities, that is when things turn to sh**t. Thank you for the comment. I also apologize, because I am the one who misjudged you. I do respect some of your comments in the threads and would love to call a truce. My sincerest apologies for my prejudgment on you.
BTW, Twas not me that grassed up AP, I can be overly sensitive, but not brutal.
Very gracious post - truce accepted. A little more tolerance and civilization like this in these forums would not go amiss I think.
AP never thought it was you, the smug slimy perp already posted to indicate who it was. - a kkkristian of course, but then it is only a game
Thank you for accepting my apologies. And I couldn't agree with you more, "A little more tolerance and civilization like this in these forums would not go amiss I think." I do not know what came over me,
I normally don't make a misjudgment on people so quick, do you think the "kkkristian Devil" has come to haunt me? Just kidding - Kind of
Being grown up and young at heart, are two different things
I truly believe one can be both! In fact, I am sure of it! But you wouldn't understand!
I would say that Pcunix and the rest of us are talking about the principle of 'seeing with the eyes of a child with the mind of an adult' - I think is close to the quote.
I don't know, I hope not! What about you?
Oh come on Deborah, you set that one up, and as uninteresting as you find these threads you certainly spend way more time here with the types of comments ike this,
Example I hate sushi, but have been denied ordering 5 times (I know)
Do I order the sushi and just stare at it telling everyone how much this suchi smells, and kep coming back and back, every evening but never touch the stuff?
Devborah your much smarter than that, I mean hid not to attack you but do not understand why yoyu find HP so uninteresting but are always pesent?
Well it was an attempt at a question!
Totally uninterested. That's why I'm seldom here
I don't understand why anyone would feel the need to be rude.
If someone doesn't like what is said just ignore it.
Seems to me that a lot of the problems occur from the religion forum. It also seems to be the forum that attracks a LOT of pointless spam.
Having a religion (or politics) subforum on any website is asking for trouble IMO, and only makes the overall website look like it's frequented by lunatics to the outsider.
If it were my site i'd delete both subforums immediatley.
Many of the people who have been banned from here for various reasons at various times have found a great new home where they can chew the nice green grass, moo contentedly, and have great conversations.
In fact some of them like it so much that they have decided that they will rarely visit these forums any more.
Which is a bit of a shame, because they were some of the most witty, interesting, and entertaining people here.
And thanks to you for giving us such a place where we can express ourselves without fear of being banned for vague, and often unexplained reasons, Eric!
Notice how dull the forums are now?
Dambbbba... I could have called in to say hi to some of real people last week during my Last Banning for telling a Current Troll to respect women!! Gotta be the accent Eric and Eric!
I'm thinking that maybe the people who want to discuss religion without "interference" by those who disagree with them could follow your example and set up their own HubPages Religion Discussion Facebook Group - accessible by invitation only. Maybe that would solve a whole lot of problems.
Seems like lots of banning going on at present for very trivial reasons.
I understand that someone was even banned for addressing someone else as "sweetie pie".
What a joke!
Pretty soon will be nobody interesting left on these forums.
Or maybe that's the master plan.
Well, you know... if you move too many over to the 'sin bin' it WILL eventually turn out the same way as it has here.
I am certain that Misha is correct when it comes to forums. Besides, it's not as much fun talking to people who mostly always agree. I actually like the diversity of HP but I really don't like bans without a reason.
I think that part sucks the most. You don't get to know why, you don't get to dispute it or at least say your part or why or whatever, you just get banned. End of story.
It's fine though. I got over it and am really trying to not personally offend anyone though luck would have it, almost everything I say is offensive. Just ask Randy. lol.
Hey Cags, go click Like on my new Shadesbreath page. I finally started one of those damn FB things. Now I can be cool and make millions of dollars like the rest of you more tech-savvy hubbers.
Hey Shades, I click like and posted to your wall. I also sent it to about 30 others.
Sweet. Thanks. I haven't figured out how to promote it without seeming, well, promotional. LOL.
You're welcome. I hope you get lots of people.
Go away Shadesbreath.
How dare you hijack my thread to promote your stupid facebook fan page at http://FaceBook.com/shadesbreath.
I won't stand for this off topic nonsense!!
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