If a Christian commits suicide, is he still forgiven?

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   Raitu Disongposted 10 years ago

   Thanks in advance for answering.!

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      HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Hi, I don't think so. It is mentioned in the Bible that if one makes the decision to take a life, say for instance shooting someone, they will not be forgiven until they repent. The Bible says that only God creates a life and takes it, it is mentioned if you take your own life, it was not God's decision but yours.  If you look into suicide itself, it's the highest level of depression. Depression in it's turn is associated with influence that did not originate from God. This is not one of the nicest topics, but one of the most important. If you want me to look for the specific verse in the Bible I'll find it for you. Take care

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         Sooner28posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         So you are against killing other human beings in all circumstances, even in self-defense?

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            HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            @Sooner,
            That is a good question. Though I answer this out of personal opinion. To be honest you made me think about this one and honestly I am actually not too sure from the viewpoint of the Bible. Though thinking about our laws, even in self-defense you get sentenced. I would like other people's opinions too on this matter. I will definitely go look for some biblical reference. You made me think. I like...

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               Sooner28posted 10 years agoin reply to this

               That's all my goal ever is!

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         Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you Helga!
         I agree with you...

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      SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The answer to this question is yes. Only a cold hearted old wine sack would say no.

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   GodTalkposted 10 years ago

   To say that one loses salvation because of a suicide is to say that salvation is dependent upon something other than the grace of God. The Bible clearly states: "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8,9). Grace is unmerited favor.  Since none of us can do anything to be saved in the first place,  what makes us think that we can lose it by an action on our part?
      Let it be clear that I'm not recommending suicide to anyone under any circumstances. We are all created in the image of God and are here for a purpose. God is the author of life, and He should be the one to decide when His purposes for that life on earth are through. However, suicide is not the unpardonable sin. God's grace and forgiveness covers this sin for the Christian, like it does any other sin.  The person will, undoubtedly,  not receive the rewards for a total life well lived on this earth.  However,   there is nothing in Scripture, to my knowledge, that says a person is automatically kept out of Heaven for suicide. It is by God's unmerited favor that any of us will be with Him for eternity, and the person who commits suicide is not the exception to this rule.

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      Sooner28posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Is the sinner's prayer not an action?

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   Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago

   This is a very hard subject.
   I can't answer the question absolutely.  I guess no one can.
   But I've always believed that it's wrong to take your own life.   It indicates a lack of trust in God, it seems, since the Bible says He won't give us more than we can handle.   And even though that verse is talking about temptation, if my memory serves me right,  I think it would include the temptation to take one's own life.........
   
   But I do know that Christian can suffer from depression and anxiety, etc.    I've been there myself!    So I can see how thoughts of ending one's life could come into play there.    I know Christians who take antidepressants, etc.;   I think the main thing is to seek help,  whether it be counseling or medication,  if a person sees that they're not able to handle what they're going through by themselves.    A Christian should always pray for help from the Lord,  and He is able!!   It's just that sometimes WE aren't able to receive His help;  but His help could also come through doctors and medications and counseling!
   
   I think there may be a difference between just depression and an actual mental disorder where one is no longer in control of one's actions.   In which case, I believe the Lord is merciful and understanding.    One instance is when a person has Alzheimer's.    Their reality becomes so distorted, and their memory and ability to think in logical and meaningful terms is so weakened that they don't even know what they're doing sometimes, and I've known people who threatened to commit suicide when they were incapacitated that way.
   I've also known people who had a mental disorder from birth who committed suicide,  in which case I don't think God condemns them for it.
   
   No matter what, we can't judge exactly on this subject.   We don't know what happens between the person and the Lord at that specific time, no matter how short the time is.    We can only attempt to sort it out by whether or not the person professed to be a Christian and any facts we may know about their lives,  and even then, we can't know for sure.

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      HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I do agree with Brenda here.

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   Zelkiiroposted 10 years ago

   It gets them to their supposed Heaven faster, so why not?
   
   It should be encouraged, I say.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Come on,  be for real, please.
      That's mean of you to say that, even if you are using the excuse that it gets them to heaven faster;  it's obvious what you meant.

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   GodTalkposted 10 years ago

   To answer sooner28, no the sinners prayer isn't a work any more than accepting a birthday gift is a way of earning that gift. The sinners prayer is realizing that you are a sinner worthy of Hell. And it is understanding that God loved you enough to do something to restore the lost relationship between Himself and man.
   He loved us so much that God the Son was willing to die in our place, so that we did not have to face an eternity apart from Him. 
   Also, the prayer is accepting that matchless gift of eternal life through faith and resting in Him alone, knowing that what He has begun in us, He will bring  to completion when Christ returns (Philippians 1:6).
     Salvation is totally of the Lord, from beginning to end.

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      Sooner28posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The problem with your analogy is that a birthday gift can be received without you doing anything.  Someone can just sit it on your porch.  Even then though, you have to take action to accept it, by picking it up and bringing it inside.  Or, you can refuse to take it.
      
      I cannot be saved by sitting on my hands and singing Kumbaya.  I have to take the action of ascribing to the beliefs about Jesus that you laid out.  So, it's not completely grace.  If I choose to never believe Jesus died for my sins, I am going to hell. 
      
      In fact, under what I think you believe about Christianity, the most moral thing you can do is accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.  You can't be nice to people, help the poor, or anything and still get into heaven.  You MUST ascribe to the beliefs about Jesus and your own sins.

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         GodTalkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         According to your evaluation of my analogy, there are no real gifts. Everything that you get you earn, even the birthday present that you have to take into the house, or wherever.
            But I can add to that the fact that the Bible says that no man seeks after God on his own. In Romans 3: 11,12 it says:
             "There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands.
         there is no one who seeks after God.  All have turned away. They have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."
             Because no man sought God, God, in His love, sought after man. Romans 5:8 says:
             "But God demonstrates his love unto us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
            Scripture tells us further: "For by grace are you saved, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast."
         (Ephesians 2:8,9).
         And it tells us: "Not by works of righteousness, which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...." (Titus 3:5).
         Over and over again the Scripture tells us that works do not save. But they do play a part in the Christian life. They are the result of salvation, just like the fruit on a tree is the result of there being a living fruit tree. The fruit doesn't give life to the tree. Rather the living tree brings forth fruit. (Matthew 7:16)

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            Sooner28posted 10 years agoin reply to this

            That doesn't follow.  But even if it did, that doesn't address my point about the sinner's prayer at all.
            
            It can be a gift whether you accept it or not, and it only requires that you ACCEPT it, not that you do anything in the past for it.  That's the only point I was making, that accepting the gift is an action by you, because you could also reject it.
            
            I have given you a very specific argument for why your description of salvation is false.  It's logically incoherent to say no action can save you, but you have to take action X to be saved.

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               GodTalkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Obviously we are not communicating. Faith itself is a gift from God, since no man will seek God on his own. In theology man's problem is known as total depravity. We are totally tainted by sin and incapable of pleasing a holy God, whose standard is perfection.   Therefore, even if you say that accepting the gift of salvation is a work, which it is not, we can see that God gives us the ability to come to Him in faith and so be saved.

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               HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               @Sooner
               I do agree with you. You do have to take action to be saved. God wants to see that you are serious about what you say. And I do mean the words out of your mouth. It's easy to preach, to say things, to promise anything it is much more difficult when one needs to Walk Their Talk. It's by doing what we are saying that starts that relationship with The Lord. If you do good deeds just to be seen, your heart is not filled with the love of God.

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                  Sooner28posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  That's all I was looking for.  Even though Jesus made the sacrifice, the action is still required, so it is a "work" that ultimately determines (not saves) whether you make it to heaven or not.

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      Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Why am I a sinner deserving hell? I may sin but I haven't murdered anyone, dealt in crack cocaine, or trafficked East European prostitutes. So tell me based upon eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, hand got a hand,,,etc, that is punishment fits the crime, what could I have possibly done in a finite life of finite sin done to deserve infinite punishment? Do you understand the dictionary definitions of judgement and justice?

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         Sooner28posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Conservative theology claims any sin against God is enough to damn us all to hell, and God is actually merciful for saving ANYONE.
         
         I can't agree with it at all, but that's what they believe.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         According to God's Word, we are ALL sinners deserving of hellfire;  yes, no matter how "good" we've been.    Unless we recognize and return in like manner the Love that the Savior has for us and the sacrifice He made for our souls,  we remain ungrateful, unLoving, unwashed, lost souls who are apathetic about even going to heaven;  so why would He take us to be with Him if we don't want to be with Him?
         When I say "in like manner", I mean that we must also sacrifice our lives for Him!   Not literally, usually!   So don't think I'm advocating that  (even though we must be ready to be literal martyrs, as were the Biblical disciples, if it comes down to that!).  But we must deny our own selfish desires and dedicate our lives to the hope of someday being with Him who gave His life for us,  and to telling others about Him;  we must carry a "cross" too,  as He did.   No one gets to heaven (and avoids hell) just by being "good".   I know a lot of "good" people who haven't even admitted that their refusal to Love the Lord is "bad".   I was once one of those.

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            Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Nonsense. Please provide a statement from Jesus where he explicitly stated we all deserve hell for even the most minor and insignificant sins.
            
            The rest of your post describes a self effort striving works based salvation. It is by grace salvation is given so human effort to improve on that grace is pointless.

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               HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Please provide me a statement from Jesus stating otherwise?
               Just thinking of the laws Moses received  from the Lord. You should not steal, right? So if you steal a car or steal someone's pen, in your opinion there is a difference? Stealing is stealing. The consequences of your actions may vary though, but stealing in this case is stealing. There is no such thing as an insignificant sin. Sin is Sin!

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                  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  You mean like the commands Moses received from God to exterminate the Canaanites? That's not a sin?

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                  Quilligrapherposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Good evening, Ms. Jacobs. Welcome to Hubpages. It is so nice to meet you under these circumstances.
                  
                  “Stealing is stealing,” is not a true statement. If I may be permitted to correct a theology major, all forms of stealing are not the same. What is even more pertinent to this discussion, not all forms of stealing are unethical (or sinful if you prefer the jargon of your own beliefs) when such theft is a case of serious necessity.
                  
                  A person does not sin if he is dying of hunger and steals food that is not his own. A person does not sin if he is living in the open in the throes of winter and he breaks in to lodge in an empty house not his own. One does not sin when exercising the right to look after his life, a right that is superior to the right of property. In addition, Thomas Aquinas points out in Theological Suma 2-2. q. 66, art. 7 and 3, “In the case of such need, one can also clandestinely take goods of somebody else in order to help an indigent person.” {1}
                  
                  My limited knowledge of sin is exhausted while greatly overshadowed by such deeds. I, therefore, shall steal away while wishing you a sinless night and a peaceful sleep.
                  
                  Good night.
                  
                  {1} http://www.fiftyreligionquestions.com/t … necessity/

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                     Sooner28posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     I found something we agree on!

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                        Quilligrapherposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Had to happen eventually. Law of Averages.
                        

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                  Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  As I reminded some else further up this thread,"Eye for and eye, tooth for a tooth,,,,," explicitly states that punishment fits the crime, thus the Christian hell is not justice. This notion that sin is sin irrespective of what it is is a Christian notion not a biblical one.

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            A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Heaven would not be a place I would ever want to go if being good is not enough as it would be filled with sycophants and egotists. It is the same logic as despots such as Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, etc. would decree upon their followers. Their only interest is how much their followers worship them, just like God.

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               HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Why do you say God's only interest is to be worshipped by His followers and that be the be and end all?

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                  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Because if you don't worship God, He will send you to Hell. Being a good person is irrelevant to worshiping God.

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            HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            @Brenda
            Been there done that too.. So true!

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   GodTalkposted 10 years ago

   To answer sooner28, no the sinners prayer isn't a work any more than accepting a birthday gift is a way of earning that gift. The sinners prayer is realizing that you are a sinner worthy of Hell. And it is understanding that God loved you enough to do something to restore the lost relationship between Himself and man.
   He loved us so much that God the Son was willing to die in our place, so that we did not have to face an eternity apart from Him. 
   Also, the prayer is accepting that matchless gift of eternal life through faith and resting in Him alone, knowing that what He has begun in us, He will bring  to completion when Christ returns (Philippians 1:6).
     Salvation is totally of the Lord, from beginning to end.

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   GodTalkposted 10 years ago

   To answer sooner28, no the sinners prayer isn't a work any more than accepting a birthday gift is a way of earning that gift. The sinners prayer is realizing that you are a sinner worthy of Hell. And it is understanding that God loved you enough to do something to restore the lost relationship between Himself and man.
   He loved us so much that God the Son was willing to die in our place, so that we did not have to face an eternity apart from Him. 
   Also, the prayer is accepting that matchless gift of eternal life through faith and resting in Him alone, knowing that what He has begun in us, He will bring  to completion when Christ returns (Philippians 1:6).
     Salvation is totally of the Lord, from beginning to end.

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   GodTalkposted 10 years ago

   To answer sooner28, no the sinners prayer isn't a work any more than accepting a birthday gift is a way of earning that gift. The sinners prayer is realizing that you are a sinner worthy of Hell. And it is understanding that God loved you enough to do something to restore the lost relationship between Himself and man.
   He loved us so much that God the Son was willing to die in our place, so that we did not have to face an eternity apart from Him. 
   Also, the prayer is accepting that matchless gift of eternal life through faith and resting in Him alone, knowing that what He has begun in us, He will bring  to completion when Christ returns (Philippians 1:6).
     Salvation is totally of the Lord, from beginning to end.

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   GodTalkposted 10 years ago

   To answer sooner28, no the sinners prayer isn't a work any more than accepting a birthday gift is a way of earning that gift. The sinners prayer is realizing that you are a sinner worthy of Hell. And it is understanding that God loved you enough to do something to restore the lost relationship between Himself and man.
   He loved us so much that God the Son was willing to die in our place, so that we did not have to face an eternity apart from Him. 
   Also, the prayer is accepting that matchless gift of eternal life through faith and resting in Him alone, knowing that what He has begun in us, He will bring  to completion when Christ returns (Philippians 1:6).
     Salvation is totally of the Lord, from beginning to end.

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    GodTalkposted 10 years ago

    To answer sooner28, no the sinners prayer isn't a work any more than accepting a birthday gift is a way of earning that gift. The sinners prayer is realizing that you are a sinner worthy of Hell. And it is understanding that God loved you enough to do something to restore the lost relationship between Himself and man.
    He loved us so much that God the Son was willing to die in our place, so that we did not have to face an eternity apart from Him. 
    Also, the prayer is accepting that matchless gift of eternal life through faith and resting in Him alone, knowing that what He has begun in us, He will bring  to completion when Christ returns (Philippians 1:6).
      Salvation is totally of the Lord, from beginning to end.

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    GodTalkposted 10 years ago

    To answer Sooner28, no the sinners prayer is no more a work than a person accepting a birthday present is working to earn that present. The present is given out of love and not because the person did anything to deserve it. 
    Rather the sinners prayer is acknowledging that you are a sinner and have no right to stand before a Holy God on your own.  Indeed you deserve separation from God in Hell.
       It is also acknowledging that God, by His grace and mercy, sent His Son the Lord Jesus Christ, to die for you, and that He paid the price in full to restore that relationship that was lost.
       Ultimately, you rest in the fact that He that began a good work in you, will bring it to completion when Jesus returns (Philippians 1:6). Salvation, is of the Lord from start to finish.

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       Brenda Durhamposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       There would be no salvation if it weren't for the Lord, I agree on that.  But as far as comparing it to a birthday gift and then saying the intended recipient has no say in the matter,  the truth is that there are people who hate the giver so much that they refuse any "birthday gift" from that person.
       God isn't gonna force anyone to take the gift.

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    GodTalkposted 10 years ago

    No more than you can force someone to take any present. I can give you a gift, but it's up to you to take it. That was my whole point. The sinners prayer is the taking of the gift.

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       Brenda Durhamposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Yes.   
       I apologize if I took your post wrong.   I thought you were saying that we don't have to make a decision about whether or not to accept Christ.

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    GodTalkposted 10 years ago

    By the way, I'm sorry for the repeating of the same answer. I didn't mean for that to happen. I'm not sure why it did.

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    lifegateposted 10 years ago

    Actually the sinner's prayer never saved anybody. However, It does confirm what's taking place in a person's heart. We're saved by faith and repentance alone, not by a prayer. Hopefully the prayer is a reflection of the beginning of a changed life.

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       GodTalkposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       I agree with you lifegate.  Paul says that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved (Romans 10:9,10). The confession is in conjunction with the believing heart, so a true "sinners prayer" is the outpouring of the heart of faith. Thanks for clarifying.

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    GodTalkposted 10 years ago

    Apparently we are not communicating. The very act of faith is a gift of God, since no man will come to God on his own. In theology it is called total depravity.  We are totally tainted by sin and unable to please a holy God whose standard is perfection.
          Therefore, even if you tell me that accepting the gift of salvation is a work, which it is not,any more than accepting any other gift is a work, then you still have to contend with the fact that God makes it possible for us to believe.

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       HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       It's only a gift if you accept it. The gift of salvation is ours, that is true. Though let me try and explain it in this way. Lets say I give you a coffee machine gift. Though in the stage of your life you don't want one. It is still going to be a gift but the benefits of having a coffee machine you will not experience until you accepted it. In other words. To fully use the machine to the fullest, you will need on your part do something.  You will have to get water in there. You will have to get the coffee too and you'll have to plug it into the plug that is going to give that gift come to life. Oh yes and the user manual of course. Without that, that coffee machine is still a gift but not worth much or mean much just sitting there on the counter.
       
       The same with the gift of salvation. You have it, it is there on the 'counter' you have access to it anytime. Though you need to accept it by plugging it into the source to work, which in the machine's case it is electricity and it will make that machine 'come alive'. So we need to 'plug' into the source of our gift, our electricity... God. Then we need the water, which is the Holy Spirit to fill us with all we need to 'boil'. The coffee is what we put in, our actions, our willingness, we are the coffee. Then the user manual to tell us how, which is the Bible. Put all this together and you will experience the gift of salvation. . . There is nothing like it... Not even a cup of coffee.

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          SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          Once a gift is given, it is ours whether we want it or not. You theology does not sum up to the true nature of our heavenly Father. Unfailing, perfect, unconditional love.

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             HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             My theology was focused on explaining the gift of salvation.  And Yes, our Heavenly Father is unfailing, perfect and has unconditional love, even if you don't accept His gift of Salvation. The Lord wants us to have  a genuine relationship with Him, not a "Hey God how are you and by the way thanks for the gift I'm not gonna Use  but I'll see you in Heaven." Kind of relationship. Would you have a relationship like that with anyone. . . I won't. But that's just me.

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                SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                You make our all knowing Father sound like someone sitting back in hope that all except this gift. What you fail to see is that because of His nature, this gift has already been given to all, and all will receive this gift in their right time. Would I have a relation ship with anyone like you suggested? I don't know, but I do know that all things are possible.

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                   HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                   Hi SwordofManticorE (and the SME stands for?.. just a thought out loud )
                   
                   No I'm not making our heavenly Father like someone sitting back, he can't sit back hoping, He has a Universe to 'run'. Though yes, He is hoping all to ACCEPT His gift. Meaning something in the line of "You have the gift now what are you doing to do with it" His gift carries worth. There is no worth in a gift if you don't use it.
                   
                   I do agree with you, because of His nature, the gift has already been given. You receive it when you're born. That's why I said in my previous post regarding the coffee machine that we have received the gift if you want to accept it or not it is there. 
                   
                   Another thing I agree with you. All things are possible. And isn't that Great! Was is just absolutely awesome is that so much more is possible when you actually embrace His gift of salvation and use it. The 'things' (for lack of better word) that happens when you do is just... Wow! Oh and getting to understand Jesus better... Speechless!

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                      SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                      Is He really hoping? I hate to ask you this, but can you not see how absurd that is? Our Father has known how many hairs are on each and every human being's right arm that has ever lived, lives now, and will live in the future. let alone know who is going to heaven and who is going to hell (according to you), so I cannot possible see, how our Father can hope that all are saved when (according to you) He already knows who is going to hell.
                      Do you really know who He truly is? I will give you a hint. The father of the prodigal son. Here is another hint. Heb 1:3. You evangelicals cannot grasp the thought that our bad seeds are sown in this life time, not in the after.
                      
                      Why are all things possible? 1Tim 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
                      
                      The blessings of salvation start for those who believe in the here and now.

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    Raitu Disongposted 10 years ago

    Thank you guys for the input!
    
    I believe as a believer God is enough!
    He is bigger than all our problems...
    
    He said, "Come to me all who are weary and then I'll give you rest".
    
    So if a person just puts an end to his life without coming to Christ, It shows his lack of faith in the power of God.
    
    And one question,
    Do you think Judas Iscariot is in heaven or somewhere???

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       SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Judas is with God.
       
       Question for you, what happens to those Australian aborigines who committed suicide before Christ was born?

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          HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          Question for you. Thinking of exactly that before Christ was born. Why do you think Christ was sent in the first place...

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             SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             He came for many reasons. He came to save as many Jews as possible from God's coming wrath on Judea. He came to save us from ourselves, and most of all, He came to save us all from the long sleep of death in the grave. He most certainly did not come to save us from a pagan hell, because if just one is lost to such a place, He has failed the Father (John 6:39).

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                HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                @SwordofManticore
                Why do you say pagan hell? If pagans don't even believe in a hell. Just curious. . .

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                   SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                   The doctrine of hell came from pagan religious beliefs. The Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Germanic tribes, Norse all had their beliefs of a pagan underworld and Christianity is no different.

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          Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          If I am not mistaken, there is no any verse which says Judas repented!
          
          So do you think a Christian once saved will always be saved???

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             SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             All are reconciled to God.

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                Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                BY all ,
                Do you mean the Christians or even the non-Christians?

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                   SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                   What part of the word all, can you not understand? It is the same word Paul uses when he wrote Col 1:20, 1Tim4:10 and 1Cor 15:22. All means all things, meaning all mankind.

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                      A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                      That's not true, all mankind is reconciled to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You too will soon be touched by his noodley appendage.
                      
                      Can I get a RAmen!!!

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                         Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                         ATM sometimes I have to laugh at your bull in a china shop antics.

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                            SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                            Sorry DH, I don't find anything funny about atm.

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             HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             @Raitu,
             A Christian that has been saved once cab in future years turn away from The Lord, in that case when you turned away from His laws, then you'll have to be saved again. What I mean is you'll have to repent all your sins again and turn towards God with. Sorrow filled heart.

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                Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                Yes you are right!
                And
                I don't believe in the notion that once saved we will always be saved.
                
                If we stop believing in Him and started walking in the way of the devil, I am sure we'll end up in hell.

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             HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             As far as my know, Judas did not repent.

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                Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                I am sure you are right!

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                Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                It seems to me Judas was set up from the beginning; Jesus wilfully and deliberately chose him knowing what was going to happen.. Without him playing his part how would Jesus have been crucified? Thus Judas fulfilled the Father's will.
                
                Now at this point you are probably thinking of the line from Jesus that "It would be better if he had never been born". This is fully understandable in the light of the shame and ostracising culture of the day. Had Judas lived he would have been an outcast. The Christians would have persecuted him, the Jewish leaders abandoned him as a common criminal. We don't know what he did for a living before Jesus chose him, but I guess nobody would have done business with him again, likely he would become a "worthless beggar", and worse off than a beggar because of the guilt and shame that would have haunted him for the rest of his life.
                
                Did he repent? Of course he did, that's why he took his own life. The shame and remorse drove him to kill himself. Perhaps he also had a glimpse of his future in that society too.

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                   Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                   I don't think True repentance will cause anyone to commit suicide!

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                      Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                      Well if you had ever betrayed someone who ended up dead, then felt total and utter remorse, is that not repentance? And perhaps you might contemplate suicide yourself.

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                         Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                         Judas felt guilty. He was so sorry about what happened that he tried to give the silver pieces back. But being sorry about what happened is not true repentance. True repentance is being sorry you sinned against God. It means you hate your sin like God does.
                         
                         Judas never repented of being greedy for money and hating Jesus. He was just trying to get rid of his guilty feelings. He wanted to make himself feel better. In fact, he wanted SO badly to get rid of those guilty feelings that he killed himself to do it! Yikes! He'd rather kill himself than really repent of his selfish attitudes.

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                            A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                            Turning ones sincere desire for forgiveness of their transgressions to hatred of such only serves to harbor resentment rather than absolution.
                            
                            It doesn't matter in the least what God hates, if he hates anything at all, He is not a god worthy of anything other than rejection.

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                            Brenda Durhamposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                            That's a good explanation.   Thanks for it.   I've seen people ask the question about Judas before, and your explanation is the best I've seen.
                            It rings true Biblically!    Peter is a good comparison in this subject.   Peter denied Christ 3 times, yet he didn't kill himself;  he stuck around to witness the proceeding events;   he must've had some hope that Judas didn't lend himself to, and I think that that was a heart matter.........he (Peter) wanted to do right, he didn't give up..........

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                               Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                               You also have given a very good example of true repentance! God bless:)

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                            Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                            How can you say he never repented? We're you there? Giving back the money was repentance. Repentance means to turn around, ie returning the ill gotten gains.
                            
                            BTW you still haven't addressed the issue of why Jesus chose him in the first place; clearly the betrayal was part of the plan.

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                               Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                               Where in the Bible do you see that the betrayal was part of the plan?

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                                  Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                  Doh!

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                            A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                            That could explain why some Christians are never sorry for their actions, they feel no empathy or compassion, and are only compelled to make sure the big guy doesn't fry them.

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                               Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                               This is a very very poor explanation...
                               
                               You know God is love!
                               
                               whether you accept it or not!

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                                  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                  You can't accept what is obviously false. Have you even read the Bible?

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                               Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                               Ain't that the truth.

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                      HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                      @ Raitu
                      I agree with you. True repentance brings utter freedom. And when you have experienced this feeling there is just nothing like it.

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                         Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                         Yes helga, I agree with you,  True repentance brings utter freedom!

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             SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             You still haven't answered my question.

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    BigJulesMagsposted 10 years ago

    Short answer: don't kill yourself.

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       HelgaJAcobsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Short and sweet. I like...

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    Peggasuseposted 10 years ago

    I'm not religious.  I'm spiritual.  So knowing that now, maybe you'll understand my answer, better.  People go through life, and sometimes, they just can't handle it.  When they get to what some of us call "heaven" it's a place to contemplate all that has transpired in their last life time.  If they were upset enough to commit suicide, the reason for it is reviewed and handled with love.  That person will probably come back again (reincarnation) and try it another time.
    
    I don't believe in sin and punishment.  I believe all of life is about making choices.  The good choices are praised, while the bad ones are reviewed, studied and tried again in the next life.  That's how I see it...

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    Rina Pintoposted 10 years ago

    Life belongs to God .. so God is the rightful owner .. let the thought of suicide get out of him/her .. this thought comes from devil - the father of lies - wants his/her soul in his territory .. he/she is a looser of her/his life .. you will not taste His kingdom if you suicide .. !

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       SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       And that is one of the reasons why I left the church.

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       Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       @Rina Pinto, I agree with you!

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          SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          I disagree with the both of you.

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             Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             That's alright!
             
             You are free to disagree...

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                SwordofManticorEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                That's the thing. I am free. Free from religious institutions and their false belief systems

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                   A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                   Even though your own faith was built entirely on those very same false belief systems? Interesting conundrum.

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                   Raitu Disongposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                   It's between God and me!
                   
                   I am not under any priest or religious institutions!
                   God is my friend!

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    RoseAsauresRexposted 10 years ago

    i think that is a very hard question to ask and that we will never really know the answer to " if a christian commits suicide, is he still forgiven?" because if you think about it no one really knows the state of mind of the person committing suicide. they could love God with all their heart and all of a sudden they've spiraled into this dark dispair or maybe they had an illness before hand or had already been struggling with depression or suicidal tendencies, who knows. but if you think about it God gives us so many chances to ask for forgiveness and to accept him into our hearts that lets say right when a person pulls the trigger or jumps off of the building/ bridge and theres that split second where they realize that they were wrong and they ask for forgiveness. think of the man on the cross next to jesus that had been a criminal his whole life and he asked jesus to remember him in paradise and jesus told him that he wold see that man in paradise and he had pretty much had been forgiven and saved. so i guess we just don't know. God will forgive a person even up to the last second so there is no way of really telling. only God knows their heart and knows the thoughts that they are thinking before they think them.

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