Cut and run seems to be the flavor of the day

1. 86

   TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years ago

   I am so tired of having people post that they are unhappy and have decided to leave HP as a result.  In some cases, I see their point, but in most, what I see is a bunch of individuals who have not taken the time to keep up with the new rules and then have problems as a result.
   
   It is your responsibility, as a writer on this site, to learn about and understand the guidelines.  You do not have to agree with them, but you do have to know what they are.
   
   Running away or constantly criticizing and threatening is counterproductive, so why do it?
   
   This type of negativity is bad for everybody here and does nothing to improve our issues.
   
   I may not agree with everything the team decides, but this is their site.  I agreed to follow their rules when I signed up.  It costs me nothing to use their site, and I make money doing it. I also learn a great deal about online writing and get to meet great people from all over the world.  What could be better?
   
   The team is doing everything possible to keep things on an even keel, and I do believe that in the long run, they will succeed.  However, success will only happen if the writers here do their part.
   
   This is no game.  It is a business.  You can't keep it going by continuing to refuse to produce, create spam, use profanity, constantly criticize and make negative assumptions when you don't have all the facts.
   
   I'm tired of all of it.  Running away is not a good response for most here because there are many caveats to doing so.  Some, yes, are expert enough to start their own sites, etc...but they are the minority.
   
   This site will rise or fall based on the attitudes of the people here, so if you want good results, you have to participate here in positive way.
   
   Please stop the negativity.  You are hurting everybody here and gaining nothing.

   replyreport
   1. 91

      Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Pointing out harmful things you see doing isn't negativity; it's feedback.
      
      A community full of yes-men and yes-women isn't terribly useful. I'll keep complaining if I see HubPages doing something that looks like it will lead to a trainwreck for as long as I continue to care about HubPages even if you consider every suggestion and criticism negativity.
      
      Just look at the most recent newsletter to see what our complaining about a lack of a list of topics has resulted in. They're going to release a tentative topic list so we can all move forward creating hubs that HubPages will have a use for rather than just shooting in the dark! People were nervous not knowing if there was a place for what they write in HubPages' future. A brief message like they sent out was all many people needed to know they weren't going to have their HubPages' writing future left hanging indefinitely. I had no desire to see people leave due to concerns over something that could be alleviated in a paragraph in a newsletter so I kept complaining until I saw that paragraph.
      
      HubPages listens to our suggestions and complaints; that's part of why they are still here and the sites that censored complaints, encouraged only yes-men and yes-women to post in their forums, and ignored suggestions are not.

      replyreport
      1. 86

         TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

         When I see a problem or have a concern, I contact the team directly via email, I don't spend hour after hour "giving feedback".  Do you realize just how often you have written endless posts full of negativity?  What makes you think the team responded about putting out a tentative list simply because you complained?  There are tens of thousands of people who write here.  Do you really think you're that important?
         
         Yes, we are lucky that the team listens to our suggestions.  I'm not so sure that they respond favorably to consistent, nagging complaining. 
         
         Showing respect in the way you voice your feelings does not make you a "yes" man or woman.  It makes you an adult.
         
         As far as the message about the tentative list is concerned, it is highly likely that the team has just now gotten to the point where they are even able to provide it, and would have done so with or without all the whining.

         replyreport
         1. 92

            Jesse Drzalposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Well then don't look at it. No one is forcing you.

            replyreport
         2. 91

            Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I have sent emails. I seem to get better results using the forums. When what I say is grouped with comments from other people saying similar things, I think it has more weight and shows how strongly we each feel about such issues. I doubt a lone email that may not be read for quite some time would have the same impact as seeing multiple people agreeing all in the same place. People can also have a chance to convince me I'm wrong or mistaken if I post on the forums.
            
            Yes, I think we are each and every one of us important enough for HubPages to listen to. I think HubPages staff considers what hubbers say without downgrading us for just being HubPages users. They know we have different perspectives and they don't assume they are superior human beings who need not listen to the peasants. That's what Squidoo did and it killed their site.
            
            I think that posts from me plus posts from everyone else did affect HubPages' decision to release a list for people to work with. They probably hadn't considered how their actions looked because they were so busy.
            
            The staff really is human. They really do need feedback and I've seen them incorporate such feedback time and again. They are likely so intently focused that they miss some things just like all human beings do. The HubPages staff is mortal and if they are doing something that seems seems harmful to their image or to the site, it really is up to us to point it out. Wouldn't you want to know it if you were giving the wrong impression and a very negative impression at that?
            
            Just because hubbers don't own the site it doesn't mean we shouldn't ever criticize the way they are presenting themselves when they're giving people a bad impression of the site's stability or shouldn't point it out when we see them repeating mistakes we've seen destroy other websites.

            replyreport
   2. 96

      EricDockettposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I think maybe you need to take a moment to consider that not everyone sees HubPages the same way you do. You may be happy just to have a place to write where you can earn a couple of bucks, but some people have put a lot of effort into content and accounts that do significantly better than a few bucks. When the rules change in bizarre ways, and subdomains go away, and moderators and editors start hacking away,  it's most definitely not a game.
      
      Personally, I have always thought of my relationship with HP as a business arrangement. I do my part, they do their part, we all make money and live happily ever after. If I see my business associate making decisions I think are harmful for both of us, I am darn well going to say something. But that doesn't mean I don't love HubPages anymore, or that I am not infinitely appreciative for the opportunities this site has given me.
      
      In the end it is their site and they gotta do what they gotta do. As content creators, we gotta do what we gotta do too. Just as HubPages is a business, we are our own little businesses. I see the potential for a bright future here, but I also see a lot of change that isn't necessarily good for everyone.
      
      It's up to each individual to decide what's best of them. Leave. Stay. Speak up. Keep quiet and just be happy to write. No matter what, stifling people who have legitimate concerns is not good for anyone.

      replyreport
      1. 86

         TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

         It isn't up to HP to "do what is best for everyone".  It is their job to make this site succeed.  Clearly, there are a number of people who write here as a means of earning an income, but anybody who depends on a content farm like this one to earn a steady living, especially in today's ever changing tech atmosphere, is kidding himself.
         
         FYI...I earn quite a bit more than just "a couple of bucks" here and have been writing on this site for some time.  No, I don't do it for the money, but I certainly understand that others do.
         
         That, in fact, is the very reason why dragging the site down with constant complaints and threats is so counter productive.
         
         As I stated earlier, it is up to us, the writers, to keep things going here.  Those, for example, who choose to "stop writing" until they see the lay of the land are literally undermining any chance for success, not just theirs, but the site's as a whole.
         
         To me, that seems extremely self serving.
         
         If you do see this as a business, and if you would like for it to do well so that you can, too...then expend the energy to keep updating and improving the work you already have and adding to your content.
         
         That's what keeps the money coming in and the site going.

         replyreport
         1. 96

            EricDockettposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I think we have very different ideas of what this site needs to do to succeed, and what it means to be a contributor to that success. I am in no way giving up on this site, no matter what else I decide to do.
            
            Also, for the record, even though I am very frustrated lately I have to say Paul and Robin and the Team have always been very kind to me, even when I've probably not deserved it. I care a lot of about what happens to HP, regardless of the money part. I like writing here, and if I had it my way I'd never write anywhere else.
            
            Again, not everyone sees HP the same way you do. To label people who speak up as complainers or to say that they are self-serving really isn't fair or, I think, accurate.  We are all running our own races here.

            replyreport
   3. 91

      Sherry Hewinsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Providing feedback and debating the worth of new features is one thing, but I am sick of people coming back to repeatedly announce their imminent departure. If you're leaving, go ahead. Don't let the door hit you where the dog bit you.

      replyreport
   4. 0

      roobposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I am new here, but lets say your cable company changed and you didn't like the new service... would you keep that company if there was a better option? I think this place is cool so far though and I am excited to start writing here and hopefully get somewhat of a following or bank account lol.

      replyreport
      1. 86

         TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

         roob: Welcome to HP.  I understand what you're trying to say, but your example is not a good one.  There is a difference between being a customer and being someone who earns money by producing a product for a site.  There's much more at stake here than you imply because many have spent years working here and do not want to see their labors undermined by negative behaviors.  Too much of that, and they lose everything.

         replyreport
      2. 92

         Jesse Drzalposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Followed you, Rob. Welcome.

         replyreport
      3. 92

         Jesse Drzalposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         roob. sorry

         replyreport
         1. 0

            roobposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you sir, followed you back as well! Rob is fine no worries.

            replyreport
            1. 92

               Jesse Drzalposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Lol

               replyreport
2. 87

   Rafiq23posted 8 years ago

   Thanks Timetraveller for posting such a great reply to the hubbers who have got disappointed with this site. I absolutely agree with you. Instead of complaining, we should double our efforts to keep things going on.

   replyreport
   1. 86

      TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      +1

      replyreport
3. 84

   Don Bobbittposted 8 years ago

   Hear! Hear!

   replyreport
4. 61

   paradigmsearchposted 8 years ago

   

   replyreport
   1. 63

      tlcsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Love the piccy!

      replyreport
   2. 73

      clivewilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      

      replyreport
      1. 92

         Jesse Drzalposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         That escalated quickly.

         replyreport
      2. 61

         paradigmsearchposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         

         replyreport
         1. 92

            Jesse Drzalposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Now were talking.

            replyreport
         2. 73

            clivewilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            GIVE ME A BREAK!

            replyreport
            1. 61

               paradigmsearchposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               

               replyreport
               1. 73

                  clivewilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  

                  replyreport
                  1. 61

                     paradigmsearchposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     
                     
                     That one made my day.

                     replyreport
   3. 89

      NateB11posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Lol

      replyreport
5. 63

   tlcsposted 8 years ago

   Oh dear timetraveller not very often i read that your upset! Quite rightly so, I love hubpages, although i really wish i had the time to write! And keep up with everything! One day, for now i continue to read my hubpages friends comments and hubs and occasionally have the time to comment.

   replyreport
   1. 95

      sallybeaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I love HubPages and the community. I appreciate the opportunity to write here and the money I earn here.  I also miss Simone who always kept writers here apprised of every situation.  I think they need another Simone..  I know staff are busy and they probably don't have enough time to communicate more regularly with writers but if they did there would be no need for any of us to complain.  We are all in this together and there is definitely a will to make it better.

      replyreport
      1. 91

         Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         +1
         
         It's easy enough to say we should just trust HubPages, but it's pretty hard to do in practice when they aren't communicating clearly.
         
         I was extremely concerned about the impressions HubPages was giving people so I expressed what those impressions were in the forums.
         
         * It looked like HubPages had no plan and I feel it's extremely important to correct that impression. A business with no plan for the future is a dying business. Hubpages obviously has plans, they just haven't expressed themselves well. 
         
         * It looked like HubPages wasn't planning on doing anything to clean junk off the main site before moving the best performing content off the site. That gives the impression that they think it's not worth cleaning up or that the best hubs were to be moved offsite instead of, rather than in addition to, cleaning up the site. That's another impression that needs to be corrected.

         replyreport
         1. 86

            TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            The team has always communicated clearly with me because when I have had problems, I contacted them directly and got answers.
            
            Last week I posted an email from Christy that clearly explained the unfeaturing process, yet, I still see people complaining that their work has been unfeatured for traffic and stating that it isn't fair, etc.
            
            It's ridiculous. People want to complain but they do not want to be responsible enough to read what is placed right in front of them.

            replyreport
         2. 74

            Barbara Kayposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I felt the same way when someone called the hubs that were left here the garbage on the site. Especially when I had several pet hubs. You can't blame anyone for complaining when someone makes their work sound like it is worth nothing. By the way, I have made payout almost every month here. So much for garbage.

            replyreport
            1. 86

               TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

               +1  I think when people use the word "garbage" or "trash", they are referring to the very low level work that has been allowed to be published here, such as very spammy work, spun articles, etc.  Nobody, and I mean nobody , is going to have every one of their hubs placed in the niches.  If they think they are, they are kidding themselves.  The team plans to cherry pick the best, and leave the rest as is, and the truth is that many really good articles will be left behind...and will continue to earn, I'm sure.  All this gloom and doom is making people crazy!

               replyreport
            2. 95

               Solarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               I have had a number of pet hubs moved to the new site.  Those that were Editors Choice, before I revoked my editors choice option, are still on the main HP site.  They were yummy once, but not now? Maybe, or they are slowly culling the lower pageview articles to see what they think should move over. 
               
               May be those hubs are old and out of date.  I don't wonder, and neither should you.  It may take time for them to move them over, maybe they want to keep some info on the main site.  I can't say what the plan is. But don't feel discouraged, my "HP considered best" is still on HP lol.

               replyreport
               1. 96

                  DrMark1961posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I dont think it has anything to do with quality, which is why those EC hubs are still here. All of mine that were moved were the high traffic hubs.

                  replyreport
            3. 92

               Christy Kirwanposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Barbara,
               
               I just want to mention that the HP Team absolutely does not consider the content that hasn't been chosen to be "garbage." The reality is that we're trying to launch these sites quickly to figure out if they are going to help us and Hubbers be more successful, so we simply haven't had time to review every Hub that might be a good fit. We do intend to make another pass at this if the sites are successful over time, but right now we're still gathering data.
               
               For now, if you want your Hubs considered for the site, your best chance is to edit them. But just to be clear, not being selected doesn't necessarily mean your Hub was rejected, but that it simply may not have been looked at yet.

               replyreport
               1. 93

                  Phyllis Doyleposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  +5   Thanks for that confirmation, Christy.

                  replyreport
6. 86

   RJ Schwartzposted 8 years ago

   I've only been on HP for about 1.5 years and its been a nice ride for me - many of my works are poetry which get minimal views, but its OK.  It's taken me some work to get really churning along, but its been worth it and I'll be sticking around

   replyreport
7. 0

   calculus-geometryposted 8 years ago

   The good authors who have kept this site afloat for so long don't owe you anything. You aren't entitled to the indirect benefits you receive when they choose to keep their successful content on this site. So when they choose to remove it and the overall quality level here decreases, that's just too bad.

   replyreport
   1. 86

      TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I totally agree.  What I object to is the people who constantly, constantly criticize, threaten and complain.  However, I don't think running as soon as you smell trouble is good, either. Doing so shows no respect for the people who made this site possible or the writers here who want to do well.
      
      If I ever decided to leave, I would simply do so.  I don't need to announce it to the world or threaten to do it again and again, which are behaviors that are totally negative and have bad influences on others here.
      
      What I see are a certain number of people making assumptions without having the knowledge they need to do so stirring up problems that may or may not happen.    THAT is what upsets me.

      replyreport
8. 93

   FatFreddysCatposted 8 years ago

   I can kinda see where TT's coming from. I try not to get caught up in the "OMG the sky is falling!" gloom and doom, I just keep on keepin' on. If HP takes a dump tomorrow, I'm fine, I have backup copies of all of my stuff. Otherwise, I'm OK with how things are goin'.
   
   If someone is so dis-satisfied with HP that they want to take their stuff off this site and go, they are perfectly within their rights to do so.  However, I hate when they keep their account(s) here active after purging everything, just so they can come back to these forums every so often to tell us poor misguided peons about how awesome they're doing since they started their own sites and blah de blah de blah...it's obnoxious.
   
   If you're genuinely doing that well with your own page(s), I'm happy for you, really, but do us a favor and stay there.

   replyreport
   1. 86

      TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      +1  You are spot on with this comment and said it better than I ever could.  There was one person here awhile back who spent at least 6 months talking about how miserable she was and how she was going to leave, etc.  People couldn't wait for her to shut up and leave already, and neither could I.  She still shows up on the forums once in awhile, and I really wish she wouldn't.

      replyreport
      1. 93

         FatFreddysCatposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I have a feeling that we're both thinking about the same person, haha.

         replyreport
         1. 86

            TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Probably are...but there are a few others, too.  Really gets tiresome, dontcha' think?

            replyreport
         2. 96

            DrMark1961posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I tried to stay away from that forum too and she kept showing up again and again! I can understand the people that want to leave, but why do they feel such a need to crow about it?

            replyreport
   2. 89

      NateB11posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly.

      replyreport
      1. 95

         Solarasposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         +1
         
         I would also like to add how much I appreciate the illustrators for the HubPro edit team.  I think they did a bang-up job with the Greek dog name hubs and I love the new ones by the same artist for my Noble dog name hub. They have not shared the artist's name for these illustrations, but shout-out to him and team HP for making these transformations to my Hubs. I really appreciate it, and I think it adds to the quality of the site.

         replyreport
         1. 86

            TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            +1

            replyreport
9. 90

   Will Apseposted 8 years ago

   http://qz.com/625870/after-years-of-int … being-nice

   replyreport
   1. 86

      TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I agree, but I also feel that cuts both ways.  I have never felt that the team has not been nice or that it has purposely done anything to harm the members here.  However, again and again I have seen writers here lash out at the team angrily for things that often are their own fault or that they disagree with.  There is a way to communicate in a positive way, and there is a way to do the opposite.  I prefer the positive...but that's just me!

      replyreport
      1. 90

         Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         There is a difference. The HP team are professionals and the writers here are not. I'm pretty daft myself. And not always kind. So a little forgiveness, now and again.
         
         If someone is ranting everyday, bragging everyday, lashing out everyday, whining everyday, then nothing wrong with pointing it out though...

         replyreport
         1. 86

            TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Those are the people I'm referring to.  Also, I don't think you need to be a pro to be courteous and helpful or to use your head and see that being consistently negative is undermining the good things other people here are trying to achieve.

            replyreport
         2. 96

            DrMark1961posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Professional? If you are making money at this site, does that not make you a professional? (Sorry Will, I know that includes you.)

            replyreport
10. 58

    C.V.Rajanposted 8 years ago

    Wisdom from 2000 year old Tamil Literature ThirukkuraL:
    
    "A king, who does not have  counselors that don't warn and criticize him at critical times, does not need external foes for his ruin. He will ruin himself".

    replyreport
    1. 86

       TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I can't agree more, but I don't think most kings would appreciate being constantly denigrated and nagged at, but rather would prefer private constructive consultations given with respect rather than blame.

       replyreport
11. 87

    cheryloneposted 8 years ago

    I agree to a certain point.  When I first joined HP, things were very different and I made a fair amount of money.  Now, following the new rules, I make pennies each month.  There are things I don't agree with that I think are hurting HP, and there are things that are helping.  I feel that those hubs that have been un-featured several times for traffic need to be moved to another site where they can try to get new traffic.  Sadly, that is a lot of hubs.

    replyreport
    1. 86

       TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Or, they can try to figure out why the hub was having problems and then fix it!  Sometimes something as simple as a poorly written title can make all the difference.  Other times, nothing will help.  It's up to the writer to decide.

       replyreport
12. 65

    Arachneaposted 8 years ago

    When I grow tired of a situation, any situation, I move on - pure and simple. When I bellyache about something, it's with a mind to find a solution or engage the efforts of someone who can resolve the issue. Like TIMETRAVELER2 says, complaining and negativity are counterproductive. I make the amendment to TIMETRAVELER2's statement by mentioning above the intent to find a resolution or someone who can.

    replyreport
    1. 86

       TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I absolutely agree that it's a good idea to try and find resolutions to issues so that you can fix them, but some things are out of our control.  Complaining about them fixes nothing.  There are brilliant people on this site who prove very helpful to others, but asking for their help is not negative behavior.  Whining about the team and its decisions is.  For example, what good does it do to discuss the fact that you don't like the name of one of the new sites?  It's a done deal.  It can't be changed, so why waste time discussing or complaining about it or dissing the team for creating it.

       replyreport