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No Burqua for France

  1. tksensei profile image60
    tksenseiposted 7 years ago

    President Sarkozy, in the first presidential address to pariament in 136 years, declared the wearing of the burqua as unwelcome in France.


    Thoughts?

    1. 0
      Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You could say the government is getting involved in an area in which it has no business. On the other hand, I think Sarkozy is making a point. The radical muslims are slowly destroying France and he's thrown down the gauntlet.

      1. countrywomen profile image60
        countrywomenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Is there any proof or direct linkage between the influx of Muslim immigrants and spike in violence in France? It seems the govt is trying to interfere into the religious beliefs of a certain section of the society. I guess like Iran where woman uncover there face seems to be a reasonable concession but a total ban on Burqa seems unfair for me. Every culture or belief should have the right to survive(of course peacefully with others around) smile

        1. 0
          Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It's all over the news. You'll find dozens of articles about it on Google alone.

          1. countrywomen profile image60
            countrywomenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            But is it only because of the Muslim immigrants or due to a combination of factors like unemployment/recession and so on. And taking a stand against Islamic way of life may actually be counter productive in the long run. More ever there is police/intelligence organizations to deal with issues like civil unrest/terrorism. It is my personal opinion that such a unnecessary stand may incite more terrorist propaganda by organizations like Taliban/Al Qaeda. I hope the govt of France has anticipated the pros and cons of taking such a stand.

            1. 0
              Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Agreed.  And CW, of course I know you know this--I'd read across the board and analyze for yourself.  This poster in particular is extremely single minded.

              1. 0
                Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Ah Ms. Sorensen, we meet again. And again, if you care to discuss the issues, I would be happy to do so. If, however, you want to trash me to others, as your above-noted statement says outright, please do so on your own time.

                1. 0
                  Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  CW and I are friends.  She looks to me sometimes for advice.  She has a good head on her shoulders, but doesn't always know what to make of American framed politics, as she is Indian.

                  Not everything is about you...proving again the single mindedness...  I have seen how you 'debate' and delete comments not showing you in a good light.  Not interested in another go around.  My name is Lita--I've never gone by Ms. and my last name like that.  But just don't address me and we will be fine.  smile

                  1. 0
                    Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Then don't trash me, and we'll be fine.

            2. 0
              Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Other immigrants that are having economic problems don't resort to violence. I think Sarkozy is sending a shot across their bow, and it's an important shot to make. They are already pushing for Sharia law in France. I don't believe that the laws of one religion should intrude on the host country, just because the rest of the world is "infidel" according to the radical muslims.

              1. viryabo profile image86
                viryaboposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Im neither Fench, nor Arab, But i feel very concerned about the pushing of Sharia law in France. That is arrant nonesense and should not be condoned. Let Sharia stay in the Arab zone only. If i were the French President, i will be tougher. Imagine having your arm and legs chopped off for flimsy reasons, and all in the name of God!

          2. utu profile image61
            utuposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            It is true

            1. Maddie Ruud profile image82
              Maddie Ruudposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              1) Are those articles from unbiased sources?

              and

              2) Who's to say whether or not the spike in violence is because of the immigrants themselves or intolerant citizens?

              1. 0
                Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Thank you, Maddie.

              2. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
                Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Good Point Maddie

              3. nyliram profile image60
                nyliramposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                So now we attack France. The French are very tolerant, as I can bear witness.

                1. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
                  Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  No not attacking France at all, just wondering why a country hailed for giving the world the concept of 'Liberty Equality and Fraternity' should choose to impinge upon personal liberties like that.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                    Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Simple. There is a large and growing unhappy immigrant community in France. Many of them are muslims and finding they are not being taken seriously because their culture of the men sitting around drinking coffee and smoking hash all day long while the women work is not acceptable to many French people. The recent riots in Paris were mostly North African immigrants of student age unhappy with their lack of progress.

                    As a backlash, the radical muslimist are calling for more men to pressure their women to proudly display their religious clothes and it has become more common to see full burkas. This is how religion works - using the word of god to control the ignorant for political gains.

                    Banning this display of "submission" is - as usual - just as  political as religious. And I have to say - I personally find myself uncomfortable meeting a man dressed in clerics clothes with three women following along fully covered up at a "respectful" distance.

                    This is inevitable. Religions will cause clashes like this. One of my main arguments against them.

                  2. Princessa profile image87
                    Princessaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    That is exactly what France is trying to do: "Liberté, Equalité, Fraternité" to all those women who are oprressed and forced to wear something that hides them from society.  Of course there are women who do it because of their own choice, but there are so many that are forced by their families and DO NOT have a choice to do otherwise.  I see Banning the Burqua a way to give a choice to those women who do not want to conform with dress codes imposed by their religion.

        2. Lisa HW profile image82
          Lisa HWposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Another way to look at things, though, is that France's own culture "has a right" to exist without being "turned into something different" because people from a different culture want to change it.  Maybe there's some sense in everyone staying within his own culture, rather than trying to alter other people's cultures to fit their own preferences.  That doesn't mean everyone can't respect everyone else.  It just means that, maybe, people of such vastly different cultures shouldn't try to mix (unless people are willing to adapt to the culture of the place to which they move).

          1. Misha profile image74
            Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Ha! That's something I can definitely agree with to a big extent, Lisa. Thanks for a rare point of agreement smile

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              Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah! Good point.

    2. Drew Breezzy profile image79
      Drew Breezzyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      ha at least we know how he honestly feels

    3. nyliram profile image60
      nyliramposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Well the Burkah is unwelcome by me, I have hair and do not want it covered. France has many Islamic people so will be interesting.

    4. usmanali81 profile image61
      usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I wonder why France banned Burqa, nevertheless people of France are considered as open minded and humanists then why they banned Burqa???

      Scientifically covered humans lead to a better society in contrast to nakedess then why they don't like clothes??? Why clothes irritate them even they can't see others wearing anything. If they cry about human rights all the time then why is there double standard??? They must ban Burqas on the Nuns of churches as well. They must ban the Sikhs to wear caps and grow beard.

  2. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image60
    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 7 years ago

    Wearing a burka is the privilege of muslim women and no one can challenge that. But when shorts and skirts are on the Arabian streets, Bin laden protested and was driven away... but the local Arabian people dont welcome western styles. How can they expect western nations will welcome their styles?  Moreover, closed with burka, all terrorists can be safe... even if it is men. They cant be asked to uncover their faces.  So, an official ban on burka may suit Mr.Sarkosi. Let the women wear burka or anything inside their homes.

    1. nyliram profile image60
      nyliramposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I agree, but out here in the Big West I do not think it necessary for us to wear them if we do not wish. Afterall France is basically I think Catholic, majority usually rules.

  3. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image60
    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 7 years ago

    In an old English film "Operation Beirut", the hero finishes his secret mission wearing a burka. So, burka is not safe for muslims also.

  4. My Inner Jew profile image85
    My Inner Jewposted 7 years ago

    I think the French president is trying to bring safety to france, but i think there are better methods.  I wouldn't want as a christian to be told i can't wear a cross or anything or as a jew to be told i can't wear the star of david

  5. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
    Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago

    There are some good arguments in favour of banning the burqua or the hijab, but the bottom line is that preventing people from wearing it is an infringement upon their personal freedoms. 

    I think it is intolerant of the French president to think to ban the burqua and intolerant of the French people if this becomes law.

    When the French banned the Sikh turban, I was outraged, and I would be again if the burqa was banned.

    That said, I have many issues with the burqa per se, but that is another matter.

    1. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
      Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Fascinating though the interchange between individuals here is, I thought the topic of discussion was the one above?

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        Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I don't think Sarkozy wants to ban the burqua per se, I think he wants to send a message to the radical muslims living in France that they do indeed live in France, not their homeland, and taking the stance that their law is above French law just because it is a religious practice is not acceptable. Again, I think it's a shot across their bow - that they can't have it all their own way.

        It is also somewhat practical. If a terrorist can hide behind a burqua to get an ID or commit acts of terrorism, then yeah, it should be banned.

        1. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
          Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Fair enough, you want to send a message to a lunatic fringe do so by all means, but a curtailment of personal freedoms should be unacceptable in a society that prides itself on its democracy (liberty equality fraternity).

          And what were people going to hide in a turban or a headscarf that they would not be able to in a hat? What is the message they were hoping to send with that?

          1. 0
            Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, I agree with you. On the other hand, freedom of speech does not give you the right to yell "FIRE" in a dark, crowded theater if there is no fire.



            I can't comment on that one, other than to say it was none of the government's business to address it at all.

  6. countrywomen profile image60
    countrywomenposted 7 years ago

    I am sorry if unknowingly I have been the cause of this conversation drifting towards ill feelings towards anybody due to my apparent ignorance about world affairs. I was just stating my personal opinion which is extremely limited due to my obvious lack of knowledge, experience and analytical abilities. Have a good day everyone.  smile

    1. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
      Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think you need to apoligise because you asked a very legitimate question

    2. 0
      Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You didn't, CW.  That was not my intention at all.  As I guess you have asked my advice on matters I never would have thought about somebody not knowing--oh, I guess taking seriously (did you...now I don't know ?) that Rush Limbaugh could become president, I concluded that you are a bit innocent of American politics.  I think you have stated the same?

      Perhaps I have a tendency to act big sisterly or something to you and should not...

      I certainly know you are one of the brightest people here, and most sensitive.  Or I would not call you friend...  I think Sufi will be sending you an e-mail invite to something, btw...smile

  7. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    In short - this is none of government business. smile

    1. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
      Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Agreed

  8. tksensei profile image60
    tksenseiposted 7 years ago

    Why does all this sound so familiar?

  9. Shalini Kagal profile image78
    Shalini Kagalposted 7 years ago

    Why can't any country in this world take decisions that its majority wants and not be pounced upon by the rest of the world? If I can state what I would and wouldn't like in my own home, why can't a country do the same? Hats off to France - they tell it like it is and don't kowtow to public opinion!

    1. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
      Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Giving the majority what they want is not always an acceptable policy. Because every so often the majority may be wrong. And in any case why should the personal likes and dislikes of the majority be more important than the freedoms of a minority?

      1. 0
        Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Amen!

        1. countrywomen profile image60
          countrywomenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Reena- Fantastic post. Even I agree that the way the fanatics(even if they are in majority) in certain parts of Gulf treat others shouldn't be held as the model example or yardstick for others to react similarly towards them. Then what difference would there be between fanatics and those who are wise. Even in India people who go there to make some quick money never decide to settle there unlike countries in Europe or North America. The way others treat us shouldn't be the yardstick by which we should treat them. And more ever it can sometimes even be dangerous to unnecessarily provoke such people openly. smile

          1. 0
            Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I don't completely agree Countrywoman. Sometimes it is very important to examine how someone is treating us and why. If we didn't fight back - tit-for-tat - against the Nazis, we might not be the free people we are today. And yes, it was very dangerous to go against them, but there was no choice, that is, no other choice for a free people to make.

            1. Misha profile image74
              Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Eye for eye? I used to be in this camp, but now I seem to slowly drift towards "another cheek" camp. Violence breeds violence, we have enough examples around...

              1. countrywomen profile image60
                countrywomenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks Misha. A political leader doesn't have to spell out every action openly especially if it pertains to national interests like security and controlling violence. At the same time trying to educate folks who maybe neutral helps in the long run to cut off the supply chain as such controversial issues tend to be the talking points for the extremists recruiting agenda. smile

              2. 0
                Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                There is a time for all things.

                1. Misha profile image74
                  Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  May be. However watching CW-girl on these forums proved to me that even if eye-for-eye might have its place, this place is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay smaller than I used to think smile

                  This is not to say that I rob myself of pleasures of hitting others' eyes in return, and may be even sometimes taking two eyes for one - I am just a human at the end lol

                  1. 0
                    Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, well, some people choose advisors of significantly limited mental capacity.

              3. LondonGirl profile image91
                LondonGirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind....

      2. LondonGirl profile image91
        LondonGirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        While I don't at all support the French idea, you have to understand it in the long and cherished context of France seeing itself as a secular country.

        1. Hal Licino profile image61
          Hal Licinoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Maybe it's time for the successor to Freedom Fries! Freedom Burqas! I'll wear one! But I'm warning you, I won't wear undies underneath. smile

          1. LondonGirl profile image91
            LondonGirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Too much information.....

            1. 0
              Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yuck.  lol

        2. Aya Katz profile image89
          Aya Katzposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Is a secular country one that doesn't tolerate religion or one that makes no stand one way or the other about religion?

          1. Hal Licino profile image61
            Hal Licinoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I believe that when it comes to France's stand on burqas it is important to spell it:

            se-cul'-ar

            With the accent on cul.

            smile

        3. Maddie Ruud profile image82
          Maddie Ruudposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Are they going to ban the wearing of cross necklaces, as well?  Of yamulkes?  Sikh turbans?  Maybe the last one, but certainly not the first two.  It's clear discrimination.

          1. tksensei profile image60
            tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            But those things don't have the ability to mask your identity. Are those things compulsory for one gender to hide signs of that gender from people who might otherwise lose control of their urges?


            (just to stir the ol' pot a little more)

            1. 0
              Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              There is no need to ban the burqua if you can still see the person's face, and it would be government interference to do so. I still think this is a shot across the bow of the muslim population in France.

          2. LondonGirl profile image91
            LondonGirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Burkhas can be a security risk in a way in which the others are not. That is a relevant factor.

          3. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
            Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Yes it is also about banning the 'other', the unfamiliar and that which you think of an an alien practice.

            And perhaps it has something to do with Carla Bruni's fashion sensibilities being disturbed by the all concealing burqa as well smile

            1. tksensei profile image60
              tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              What makes you say that?

              1. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
                Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                The first statement, it is the turnban, the head scarf and the burqa that the French do not want, they have no problem with other religious symbols.

                As for the second statement, it was merely a joke; someone else on this thread thinks so as well; Lita I think

          4. nyliram profile image60
            nyliramposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Why would they ban Cross necklaces France is still largely Catholic.

  10. Shalini Kagal profile image78
    Shalini Kagalposted 7 years ago

    I do believe the majority viewpoint is what needs to be paramount in any country!

    If certain countries in the Gulf can insist on women wearing a burkha, why can't France insist on them NOT wearing one? Fair enough, I say! Why does it have to be one rule for them and another for the rest of the world?

    1. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
      Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      If France is content to be known as a totalitarian regime that does not give freedom and equal status to all its citizens then certainly let them proceed with disallowing the burqa, bindi, sindoor; turban, headscarf, whatever it is that they wish. O wait they already did some of that.

      My point is you cannot call yourself an egalitarian, equal opportunities, truly free society  if you dictate terms such as these to your citizens.

      1. andromida profile image76
        andromidaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Fantastically well said, Reena.

        1. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
          Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks for agreeing Andromida

  11. earnestshub profile image86
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    I think all countries should stay away from dress codes. The right to wear the clothes you choose should not be in any ones hands but your own.

  12. Paraglider profile image89
    Paragliderposted 7 years ago

    I certainly hope France (and everywhere else) bans the burqa for driving. Take my word for it - the burqa-wearing women drivers on Qatar's roads are a danger to everyone. Their choice of dress restricts their field of vision to more or less straight ahead, which may not even include the rear view mirror.

    In Saudi, one of the reasons the clerics there are wholly opposed to allowing women to drive, is that it could encourage immodest dressing. But that's Saudi...

    1. 0
      Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      It is my understanding that they don't have "a choice" of what to wear. But if it is as hazardous as you say, then yes it should be banned for that reason alone.

      1. Paraglider profile image89
        Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        If the Qatari women don't have a choice it is only because they are in thrall to their husbands or fathers. Most Qatari women wear the Abaya but do not hide their faces. Those that do should not be allowed to drive. (And, for me, their husbands should not be allowed to breathe).

  13. 0
    Leta Sposted 7 years ago

    My actual opinion on this, and especially after reading Paraglider's response is that whole thing is mildly ridiculous.  Of course, in general dress should be a personal freedom.  Dress so 'modest' that it causes lack of freedom and danger to others (being wrapped up like a mummy so one cannot drive) is another thing all together.  (Unbelievable.)  As to those who say banning the burqua is a defensive action against terrorists - oh, possibly.  Wrong?  Yes and no.  Ridiculous in sum total - absolutely.

    Maybe this garment of choice didn't meet with the taste of Sarkozy's ex-fashion model wife and she decided to do away with it.  In any case, this whole thing puts an exciting new modern twist on a case of the emperor has no clothes.

    lol

  14. andromida profile image76
    andromidaposted 7 years ago

    Wearing burqua is a religious custom.Some Muslim women are
    used to it while some are not.Those who are not used to without
    burqua will face a great problem in France.France must have its
    own point of view about wearing burqua and maybe this decision was  not inspired by any religious point of view,yet  it shows the
    intolerance of religious freedom in France.

  15. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    LOL Sure I am, thanks Mark smile

    1. countrywomen profile image60
      countrywomenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Don't worry Misha, you have my company there(since even I am a "stupid" one with a "significantly limited mental capacity") wink

      1. 0
        Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Countrywoman, please accept my apologies. I was not referring to you and I am truly sorry you took it that way.

        1. countrywomen profile image60
          countrywomenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          No worries. You don't have to apologize and since you already said it was sarcasm I was just trying to cheer up Misha. You know as they say "misery loves company". Relax and hope you are enjoying the wonderful California summer http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/mybusiness/Smilies/sunningsmilie.gif

      2. Misha profile image74
        Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I believe we all are stupid in a certain ways CW-girl. And I definitely enjoy your company - don't tell your husband though wink

        1. countrywomen profile image60
          countrywomenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I am sure even he enjoys some other company and sometimes when I pass by his system he minimizes his window. I always wonder what could it be. Anyway its fun to unearth the mysteries. At least in my case he knows I am active at hubpages(maybe not aware to what extent though). wink

        2. 0
          Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Relax, the both of you, Misha and CW.  LOL.  I am most certain the Madame here is referring to my significant lack of mental capacity.  OMG

          She really should be careful that her confidantes understand her very specific context. lololollollllolol

          That's really all I need to say, wink.

          1. nyliram profile image60
            nyliramposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            You in no way lack any type of mental incapacity, by far one of the brighter people Lita, I have enjoyed your forum input. Just whiling away the next few minutes. . Lol

  16. dawei888 profile image59
    dawei888posted 7 years ago

    It's very tough. Sarko said the burqua has nothing to do with the religion. but, many muslims disagree strongly with that statement. i do agree that it seems to be a way to keep women from expressing and showing themselves. but, France is a free country (LIBERTE, Egalite, Fraterite)and I think he crossed the line saying wearing it "is not welcome" in our country. If Obama said something like that there would be a major uproar among american muslims.

  17. Paraglider profile image89
    Paragliderposted 7 years ago

    By the way - it is not yet July. In Qatar (and Saudi, Kuwait, Oman and UAE) the temperature in the shade is already 48C (118F). Then add a bit for the sun. To insist that your women (you know, the ones that you own) wear French designer underwear, jeans and tops (for your enjoyment) underneath an all concealing 'modest' black tent, is not cultural. It is oppression, pure and simple. Some women choose to wear 'modest' dress and that's absolutely fine, but let's not pretend most of the Middle East burqa is women's choice. It's not.

    1. 0
      Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, that's what I said.

    2. LondonGirl profile image91
      LondonGirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I'm going to be in the Middle East next week, and will dress modestly, to fit in and not get hassled too much, but cooly. And a black tent ain't my idea of cool, I'll be going more for long-sleeved cotton dresses, I think.

      1. Paraglider profile image89
        Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        What country?

        1. LondonGirl profile image91
          LondonGirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          ABout the only one we can go to - Israel. We are going to a family wedding, and staying in Jerusalem, so modest dress is a good idea, although not required.

          1. usmanali81 profile image61
            usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            ISRAEL hmm ...

            1. LondonGirl profile image91
              LondonGirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              yes, Israel.

              1. usmanali81 profile image61
                usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                hope you don't get influenced by Zionists and Freemasons there.

          2. Paraglider profile image89
            Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I won't be seeing you then! Israel is the only one I can't go to, at least not without a second passport. Have a good trip smile

            1. LondonGirl profile image91
              LondonGirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              It's more going back into other countries that would be the problem, I think, than going to Israel?

              We can't go to any of the others, because OH was born in Tel Aviv and thus it's pretty obvious he's been there (-:

              1. Paraglider profile image89
                Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Interesting - I don't know. But I can't try it because I can't risk not being allowed back here!

                1. LondonGirl profile image91
                  LondonGirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Fair enough. If you ask, though, the Israeli immigration peeps will stamp on a bit of paper instead of your passport, or you can get a duplicate passport instead.

    3. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
      Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      45 degrees here in Agra as well, Paraglider so yes the very idea of a burqa is positively scary! Symbol of oppression... agree with you there as well.

      The point is, if someone chooses to don it, because they misguidedly believe that the prophet said to don hijab (scholars have opined incidentally that the prophet never said that; he only said dress modestly) or for any other religious reason they should be allowed to do so.

      As for what the burqa could hide for a potential terrorist; why the same as a trench coat I would imagine.

      1. Paraglider profile image89
        Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        And it's recent. When I worked in Saudi, I saw plenty of old photographs of street and souq scenes. Modest dress (headscarves, in many colours too) but not a veil in sight. The burqa has been imposed in Saudi in recent years, by the clerics. It is not traditional, nor a religious duty.

  18. 0
    llanishenposted 7 years ago

    Burkas are great, I wear one sometimes.

  19. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    I went to school with a large number of Muslim women who wore the hijab and they were very independent.  One lady actually was one of the most outspoken in class and used to critique a lot of things the professor said. Some other Muslim women I knew used to dress pretty much like the rest of our classmates besides the hijab.

    I knew one girl who stopped wearing it while at college away from her parents, and surprisingly her Christian friends that had a father that was a minister were less understanding about it.  I think women should have the right to choose what they wear and full burqas are really a bit much, but I have seen many fashionable ladies wearing the hijab married to productive men that hold full time jobs.

    1. usmanali81 profile image61
      usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      If full burkas are a bit much then bikinis are a bit less. Bikinis should be banned as well

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        They are in certain muslim countries.

        1. Princessa profile image87
          Princessaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          and no one gets up in arms because women cannot wear bikinis there!!

        2. usmanali81 profile image61
          usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          should be in all over the world

          1. SweetiePie profile image83
            SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Why do you care what other people wear?  I know I do not really.  Honestly I think wearing the burqa is too extreme for me, but after going to school and being around Muslim women I know some actually want to wear the hijab.  Others do not want to wear it, but I am cognizant of the misconception that many Muslim women feel forced to wear it.

            1. usmanali81 profile image61
              usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Because i am very much caring. Hijab brings peace, serenity, modesty and respect where as Bikinis (and other such stuff) bring adultry, rape and oppression under the guise of art, love and humanity.

              1. SweetiePie profile image83
                SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I think you should allow people to do what they want with their lives.  Personally I am all about people having the personal freedom to wear what they want wherever, whenever, but I find it provocative that you state a bikini would insight rape and other violent acts.  To me it means you do not respect women if you feel that because respecting women means you allow them to wear what they want.

                1. usmanali81 profile image61
                  usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  who am i to stop you, but it's my obligation to give you the right pictures and then you decide. To me, respecting women does not mean to rape as much as you can, respecting women does not mean to sexually harrass women at work. This happens because it's very natural and scientific that men have got sexual desire much higher than the women. Women are built as innocent, elegant and beautiful, so if a women exposes herself then she becomes very prone to adultry, rape, sexual harassment. Take for instance the case of USA, why USA has got the highest rape cases (registered) as compared to any other country of the world ???

      2. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I reckon you should be banned!

        1. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
          Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          My sentiments exactly. Is there no way to put the ranting on ignore or something?

      3. SweetiePie profile image83
        SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I am not saying the burqa should be banned, I am just saying it is not my clothing item of choice.  On the other hand, I would not dare wear a bikini either lol.

        1. LondonGirl profile image91
          LondonGirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Me neither, I prefer to keep my belly to myself (-:

  20. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    Not sure what you are trying to say, but I was one of the few people on the thread not coming down on you like a ton of bricks.  I have no problem with you being a Muslim and having your beliefs, but where do you get your statistics about the US?  Can you site your source please? smile

    1. usmanali81 profile image61
      usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      •    1 in 3 girls and 1 in 4 boys will be sexually assaulted before age 18. (Office of Criminal Justice Planning)
      •    80% of all rapes that occur are committed by a date or acquaintance. (Office of Criminal Justice Planning)
      •    1.3 women in the United States are forcibly raped each minute. (Rape in America: A Report to the Nation)
      •    68% of rapes occur between the hours of 6pm and 6am. (U.S. Dept of Justice)
      •    Only 2% of rapists are convicted and imprisoned. (U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee)
      •    Of the 22.3 million adolescents in the U.S. today, 1.8 million have been victims of serious sexual assault. (U.S. Dept. of Justice, National Institute of Justice)

    2. usmanali81 profile image61
      usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I have'nt described the atom bomb formula, so i am not getting the thing which you are not sure about.

      WORKPLACE RAPE STATISTICS

      According to Kleiner, Brian H.
      Publication: Journal of Employment Counseling
      Date: Monday, September 1 2003
      Each year, approximately 51,000 incidents of rape and sexual assault occur in the workplace.

      According to the data for 1993 through 1999 from the National Crime Victimization Survey estimating the extent of workplace crime in the United States. The report describes Average Annual Workplace Victimization of Rape and Sexual Assault is 36,500

      1. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The figures you quote are significant. As a percentage of the population, it is not so big.
        What would be interesting would be to get the figures for one or more of the countries that do not provide any figures for rape. The problem is they do not publish any information. America admits the number of victims because it is a free society and therefore it's problems are known and dealt with. A lot better solution than denying human rights abuses because the evidence of rape and other abuse is totally suppressed, or the women have no rights because of culture.

        1. usmanali81 profile image61
          usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You are pointing towards Saudi Arabia, no rapes take place there, hardly one per year, so no need to get the overhead of publishing this figure of 1.

          Regarding improvement in these ISM based societies, ha, what the heck man, what's wrong with you, whom you are trying to decieve, you can very well decieve your own people but not us. The rate of crime is going up day by day in Europe, America and Australia.

  21. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    Actually there is rape in Saudi Arabia, and many women have written memoirs under pen names to share accounts of what has happened to their family and friends.  Have you heard of the Princess Trilogy?  By the way, there are Saudi women who are casting off the repressive clothing sanctions and web caming with men on the Internet, and what they show is much more risque than a bikini.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3hbd6 … b-cam_news

    The video is in Arabic, but the captions are in English.

    1. usmanali81 profile image61
      usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      The attached video is related to the case of only one woman, may be she is a prostitute. Only one woman's way of life does not mean all the women want the same. Regarding admiration, yes, definitly women need admiration and praise by men. ISLAM gives this right and therefore muslim husbands entertain their wives, admire their beauty, praise them, take them in parks, bazzars and restaurants.

      1. SweetiePie profile image83
        SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        No this is a news story about many average women who have done this, and they are not prostitutes.  You did not even listen to the video, yet you deem to comment. Point being, you cannot say all women in a particular country or part of the world are whores because they wear bikinis, which is pretty much what you have been implying here.

        1. usmanali81 profile image61
          usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          News story of LBC, a Zionists run TV Channel. By the way not all the women were shown in that news and not all the women were interviewed in that news. I hope, some day US Department of Justice will be having a survey on "WHETHER ALL THE WOMEN WEARING BIKINIS INVOLVE IN ILLEGITIMATE SEX OR NOT"

  22. tksensei profile image60
    tksenseiposted 7 years ago

    Violence against women is unfortunately common all over the world.

    1. SweetiePie profile image83
      SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That is very true!

    2. usmanali81 profile image61
      usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      forcing them to wear bikinis is also violence

  23. 0
    Leta Sposted 7 years ago

    ...and also to say, that last part of their post sounds like they are talking about a pet instead of a woman.

    1. JonTutor profile image60
      JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly. I don't know about others but I find him terribly amusing.... Does anybody take him seriously? I sure as hell find him extremely funny.... Thanks Usman for the laughs.

      1. Reena Daruwalla profile image62
        Reena Daruwallaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You beat me to it Jon tutor; that I precisely what I was going to say.  Talk about lunatic fringe

        1. JonTutor profile image60
          JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          My pleasure Reena...Man I feel so good reading his comical facts.

        2. usmanali81 profile image61
          usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Reena my dear, why are you so angry at me, i did'nt bite you

  24. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    Okay this thread is getting wacky noodle.  I am not even sure what usmanila is talking about anymore smile.

    1. JonTutor profile image60
      JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Chill....He is providing oodles of entertainment for all of us...You do have a wonderful smile.

      1. SweetiePie profile image83
        SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Why do you think I am not calm lol.  I am free to comment however I wish, and having a man tell me to chill is ridiculous.

        1. JonTutor profile image60
          JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Oops SweetiePie... Sorry you took it that way.... I was just having fun.

          1. SweetiePie profile image83
            SweetiePieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Okay that is fine, but I just did not see why you thought I had to chill...especially since my comment about wacky noodle was silly and not serious.  I honestly only have been responding to this fellow to see what he would say next, and most of it was hillarious.  It took him over fifteen hours to compile his statistics.

            1. JonTutor profile image60
              JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I use that a lot...no offense meant...Cya

            2. usmanali81 profile image61
              usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              LOL lol no, you are wrong. i was sleeping in my home

              1. JonTutor profile image60
                JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                You sleep for fifteen hours????

                1. usmanali81 profile image61
                  usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  No, for eight hours (maximum), the rest of the time is for my family and study.

                  1. JonTutor profile image60
                    JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    What are you studying for..... under grad... major??

        2. usmanali81 profile image61
          usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I am glad you are very cautious, that's the reason you dont like to wear bikini. Be ware of such kind of men who praise just to have ....................................

          1. JonTutor profile image60
            JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Dude talk for yourself. I have a GF and pretty happy with her...R u married?

            1. usmanali81 profile image61
              usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Will the realationship last forever or for a few nights ???

              1. JonTutor profile image60
                JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Answer my question first.

              2. earnestshub profile image86
                earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Only a few nights as he may be a Freemason or Zionist.

                1. usmanali81 profile image61
                  usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  LoL yes, he may be or may be not but the chances of him to be Freemason seems much higher

                  1. JonTutor profile image60
                    JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    No dude...I don't belong to any such fraternity.  I love my GF... lets see... R u single?

      2. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It;s like stepping back in time..... to the stone age.

  25. earnestshub profile image86
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    usmanali81
    The only reason you can quote any figures for these countries is because they are free.No one forces any one to do anything.
    Your attitude is bordering on neurotic, you accept nothing outside your narrow prejudiced view.

    1. usmanali81 profile image61
      usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      But the ideologies of Freemasonry: Humanism, Atheism and Materialism are forcing them under the hollow slogans of art, love and humanity. These pagan doctrines of Ancient Egypt removed the fear of God and fear of reward / penalty after death which ultimatly turned people into naked monsters raping and looting each other. Do you know about Spencer Tunicks Naked World ???

  26. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 7 years ago

    Just wanted to add to the thread that being single is fun and great.  If you are single usmanaila there is nothing wrong with that, I prefer to be myself.  However, I have probably flirted with men and worn outfits you would not approve of, but that is my choice of course.

    1. usmanali81 profile image61
      usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Agreed

      1. JonTutor profile image60
        JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I am with you on that one SweetiePie....Just wanted to understand this guy....who rejects anything outside marriage including premarital sex or masturbation to be wrong.... based on his fundamentalist brainwashing... but he is fine with marrying 4 wives. You gotta hand it to him....he finds his impracticable beliefs ranging from personal human relations which are strictly based on a stone age book called koran to present day delusions about Freemasons and Zionists to be the facts....Gosh... Give me a break.

        1. usmanali81 profile image61
          usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, my dear, you are right, we marry 4 wives, we give them love, we give them respect, we share with them equally, we give them inheritence etc etc.

          While you people love to have mistresses more or less than 400, you just give them your d**k, you misuse them, you does not treat them equally, you dont give them any thing from your property and wealth, you just f**k them and dispose them off like a chewing gum or tissue paper etc etc

          1. earnestshub profile image86
            earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Tiny little mind, narrow and bigoted.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I think he is great. He is helping to persuade people that his religion is irrational rubbish. And the irony is - it is people such as him who have pushed the French government into banning their religious apparel. I suspect he has missed this though. wink

              1. earnestshub profile image86
                earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Very likely he has missed that. He has an amazing hide!

              2. Shil1978 profile image87
                Shil1978posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Spot on - He is a bad advertisement for his community!!

            2. usmanali81 profile image61
              usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              any proof ???

          2. viryabo profile image86
            viryaboposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            TWISTED! As usual. 4 wives, a great excuse to have a mini harem, isnt it?

            1. JonTutor profile image60
              JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I wonder where he gets his 400 figure.... you are right... a mini harem would certainly do... even the "prophet" had many wives(11-13) ... even marrying minors (Ayesha) and son's wife (Zainab)

              1. usmanali81 profile image61
                usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Hazrat Aisha (RA) in Islam:

                Let's discuss the age of Aisha being 9 when she married our Prophet in Islam!

                First of all, it is important to know:

                Aisha's parents were the ones who married her to our Prophet, and that no Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced.  And even until today in 3rd world countries (Muslims and non-Muslims), little girls as young as 9 or 10 do get married.  Anyway, the reason no one objected was to the Prophet's marriage was:

                1. People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia.   They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum.  So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar.

                2. Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many third-world non-Muslim and Muslim countries.  See the following examples:

                Example 1: Activists condemn Gypsy girl's arranged wedding in Romania

                Tuesday, September 30, 2003 Posted: 3:58 PM EDT (1958 GMT)
                BUCHAREST, Romania (AP) -- Human rights activists and Romanians on Tuesday condemned the arranged marriage of a 12-year-old Gypsy girl, saying it was illegal and a violation of human rights.

                A 9-year old Thai girl gave birth:

                The news item is from the New Straits Times, 10/3/2001.
                In our world today, we still have people especially in the third world countries, marry very young girls.  Why should we call someone who married a 9-year old girl 1400 years ago a child molester, when we still practice it today?  The girl above even gave birth at the age of 9!

                And should we also call Aisha's (our Prophet's wife) parents child molesters too, since they agreed by their own will and choice to marry their daughter to our Prophet, and they were proud of it too?

                Child brides as young as 8 (eight) were common among the Byzantine emperors and nobility!

                The article specifically says they were common and not exceptions!

                It is important to know that girls during the Biblical and Islamic days used to be married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts start showing off.  In other words, when they turn into "women", then they get married off.  It was quite different for men on the other hand, because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been and will always be a mandatory requirement for men to have in life.  So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married.  The guy had to develop both his body and mind before he was ready for marriage. 

                That is why you see girls as young as 9 or 10 were married to men as old as 30 or even older.  The culture back then and in many third world countries today (NON-MUSLIM ONES TOO) is quite different than what you live in today.

                Prophet Muhammad's marriage with Aisha was 100% legal and acceptable by all laws and Divine Religions!

                So to call Prophet Muhammad a pedophile for marrying a girl that was OFFERED TO HIM by her parents and was accepted by all of the people back then including the enemies of Islam, the pagans, is quite ABSURD.

                1. 0
                  Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  That's sick. Just because it happened in the past doesn't make it any more acceptable now. They also used to burn people at the stake for not being "catholic" - just as sick.

                  1. JonTutor profile image60
                    JonTutorposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Are women some kinda cattle that can be "offered"...what about the dude accepting to marry 6 yr old and having sex when the girl was 9....and making the adopted son divorce his own wife so that he could fulfill his lust....Gosh...it just aint right ever.

                  2. usmanali81 profile image61
                    usmanali81posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    May be it's sick for you. But for me, the sickness lyes in raping innocents of USA repeatidly and letting them out of jail after 2,4 or 8 years sentence, then they rape again and your sadist elders give you the education of TOLERANCE, PATIENCE and BROAD MINDEDNESS

  27. viryabo profile image86
    viryaboposted 7 years ago

    1 UP for the French President. Over to you Britain. Sitting and watching and waiting for what? You allow too much nonsense such as this to happen all in the name of freedom.

  28. viryabo profile image86
    viryaboposted 7 years ago

    So sorry good people of HP community. Just PISSED with this guy, thats all.

  29. Miss M profile image60
    Miss Mposted 7 years ago

    To be honest, I don't care beacuse I don't know what you're talking about!

  30. Lisa HW profile image82
    Lisa HWposted 7 years ago

    Misha, well see?  I guess there is always something people can find to agree on.    smile  Sometimes it just takes time for it to show up.   smile

  31. Sufidreamer profile image80
    Sufidreamerposted 7 years ago

    lol

    CSI: Usmanali

    Where is Horatio when you need him!

 
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