In another forum, someone posted that they dumped their significant other because he/she voted for George Bush. I was kind of shocked by that. It seemed incredibly shallow to me, but I don't know either of the people involved, maybe I'm missing something here.
Is this normal practice in the dating world these days?
I wouldn't dump my wife if she had voted for Obama and she may have, I never asked her. I wouldn't not date someone because of their political beliefs.
It's impossible for me to get close to liberals, I have dated them but it's pretty hard to feel romantic when I'm arguing with stupidity all night. Some people make it work though like Matlin and her husband.
If a friend came to you and said, "I think that Jefferson Davis would be the best President ever." What would you do? or more representative of liberal attitudes toward GWB - "That Adolf Hitler would make an awesome president."
I have pushed friends away whose politics are repulsive to my moral sense.
Here is the exact statement: "I was dating this guy and everything was wonderful,until he told me he voted for Bush. Never looked at him the same and I dropped him."
I think maybe people get a little to attached to political figures and what they say. A vote does not make a relationship, unless politics are that important to someone. If so, that's sad, because 99.9% of all politicians are full of crap and don't care about me or you.
I think dropping someone because of their political beliefs is acceptable if the two people involve was a son\daughter of the opposing party.
But for mere mortals, I have to agree that that was such a shallow reason.
But let us not forget the uniqueness of every individual. Though a little argument time and again will help nurture any relationship, if the people involve was not an argumentative type, she would have no choice, but to drop it..Maybe she loves to have someone in the same level of thinking as to hers', because she believes that it was a component of having a smooth sailing relationship.
I also agree with lady_love158s' post, but then again stupidity is a different issue.
I would never have dated her more than once.
I guess if you felt like a vote represented a whole value system...? Honestly, I can't imagine it. I'm assuming the person was looking for a reason to dump 'em.
To make someone significant in one's life before finding out more about something that important to one's self seems rather absurd.
Well that is just part of the core belief system. Your values and morals, and probably just one part of the deal. If you really loved someone and felt they were compantable with you, you would learn to accept the differences, not sabotage the relationship because of it. Sounds like there was more than just that, that might of just been the reason they used to bail out of a relationship.
My best friend is a liberal democrat, and we get along great. She's a wonderful person. We just see things differently. Nothing wrong with that. We have a lot of discussions about politics, but we've NEVER argued about politics. We've found that we can always find a little common ground. Wish our elected leaders could do the same!
I could be married to a liberal, as long as he didn't have extreme views. For example, it would be hard for me to get along with someone who thought late-term abortions on demand were fine. I know very few people would think this way, I'm just using it as an "extreme view" for illustration. If he thought guns were evil and wanted me to get rid of my hunting and skeet shooting guns, we'd have another major problem! lol
And, BTW, I'm married to a far-right conservative, and we don't always see eye-to-eye on things.
I wouldn't drop someone just because of his political beliefs if they were not too extreme. Rational people can agree to disagree.
Oh yes, yes, I would, I could, and I have! I met this guy, so cool, soooo hunky, sooo wonderful and I was gone on him for sure. Until I found out he was a big Nixon fan - I mean we had a argued but not for long and that was the end of that. So, no, I don't agree that politics shouldn't have a place in a relationship - I could never, ever, in a million years have really loved someone who liked those kind of politicians and those kind of policies and ideals. Its not just about the men who run for office - its also about philosophy and their attitudes about the world and how we should live in it. Who you vote for normally reflects what you really believe.
If you think politics is just the people who get elected, then you have not had some of the political discussions like the ones I've had about the environment, education, peace and war, and how we should go along the paths we're on!
No, I am crazy about my husband and he is a conservative. Granted, he is more of a Reagan-era conservative. He even voted for GWB, twice! It's ridiculous to think people cannot connect on a personal level just because they have different political beliefs. People who think that way have a deep-seated emotional problem, in my opinion.
Dang, it, PP!
I was going to say "Only if he voted for GWB twice and still refuses to see anything wrong with the Bush presidency..."
But you beat me to the punch!
My Dad voted for Bush. I thought about breaking up with him, but decided to stick it out. It was worth the political "sacrifice" for sure!
LOL! He regrets his second vote, but at least he is honest enough to admit he voted for him, unlike so many other conservatives who claim to have never liked Bush.
oh geez, politics is divisive enough; why do people put religion and politics before relationships? Univited Writer said it well. Unless they're extreme and you can't get along, differences shouldn't be a deal breaker.
If they're extreme, they're off balance anyway.
My mom used to call me a dam# democrat, which I'm not, but we got along great. I lean to the left, but I've voted for either party, but have never voted for Bush. What I see today in the Republican party would never get my vote. The party has changed.
I agree, rebekah. If religion and politics get in the way of a relationship, I guess the pair didn't really want to be together all that much to begin with.
Seems that couples who can converse rationally could talk about any subject. But, a deep belief system, which may be the basis for a political choice makes the foundation for compatibility. If an accumulation of little annoyances could split people apart, larger political issues may do so on a grander scale.
Thoughtful response. I find it incredible that people still think that political differences are minor ones. Isn't our understanding of all complex relationships rooted an over arching philosophical understanding of who we are, why we are, how we are to interact, what is moral action, what is individuality, etc.... Politics is minor because it is only a portion of this greater philosophical understanding.
I did review a good portion of the previous replies. Gave pause. Thought carefully about how I might feel and then posted the reply. When you think how nations with different political views can be ripped apart, and they reflect the people within the culture and society, then certainly the families, and couples within those smaller microcosms must reflect the larger political picture.
We can agree on that. I guess where one ends up in this discussion depends on how much he or she cares about political issues. For someone who cares a lot about political issues political orientation can be important.
For some political views are important. My point is that political views are informed by an entire system of thinking about our nature. Political ideas do not exist in some vacuum they are a product.
I agree with your statement here. Where I think the we diverge is on believing that people with vastly different political beliefs can share the same core values. I believe they can.
Maybe it comes down to what each of us considers "political."
I cannot disagree more. What core value does an advocate of price regulated free market share with one who advocates a government directed economy? There are ideas that, if thoroughly considered, are diametrically opposed.
Core value: Human beings should be free to create.
Political belief: Freedom to create is furthered by a completely unregulated free market.
Opposing political belief: Some regulation of the market is necessary to prohibit the wealthy from using their power to suppress the freedom of others to create.
There it is, the fundamental issue. A free market does not preserve nor create wealth. It does not reward greed. It does not foster selfishness or inefficiency. To the contrary, a free market tends to punish those who are not creative and adaptable. Blockbuster and Barnes and Noble were monumental in the 1990s now they are gone. Why? Was it because some rich fat cat destroyed them or was it because progress passed them by?
When there is a Bureau of Creative Freedom one can be assured that there will be neither freedom nor creativity. The greatest suppressor of freedom has always been the State.
I was trying to point out that the ideas are "diametrically opposed" as you say, but they are both driven by the same core value, not argue the value of one over the other.
But are they actually driven by the same core value? It is an epistemological problem. When one says "the freedom to create" and follows up with supporting a government program to decide which creative endeavors are subsidized and which are not, where is the freedom? Everything is ultimately informed by how we define all terms in every concept. No wonder Existentialists and Phenominologists struggle with the idea of how communication is even possible.
One could argue about the example I gave. It was just an example. I'm not interested in debating the merits of the different beliefs. My point was that different beliefs could rest upon the same core values.
Apparently, you and I differ in one very important way. I am determined to find common ground among people with opposing views; you are determined to believe there is none.
That is why I can love and respect my husband, a conservative. However, he is a conservative who believes common ground exists among ALL people. I could not be married to anyone who doesn't believe that.
Well-explained, Pretty. You can share values but disagree on how best to ensure those values are served and preserved.
I wouldn't dare that. Losing my happiness for politics? Absolutely impossible
The only reason I would dump someone over politics is if they were completely closed off to hearing other opinions, or if they couldn't comprehend the facts and they just regurgitated what they heard on TV... or as I like to call it, the propaganda box.
This is a very interesting discussion. I wouldn't have believed it but it looks like hardly anyone agrees with me on this one. But think about it!
Politics and how the political realm affects our lives is not a subject I can easily dismiss, and I don't really think I'm emotionally unbalanced because it is important to me what the people who lead think and the things they do on my behalf. And it isn't unreasonable for me to feel that its important what my close loved ones think about these issues. I really don't think I could have a meaningful relationship with anyone who fundamentally disagrees with me about these things and their importance : education of our children, the environment and how we behave in it as part of it, making war and making peace and where and when, the economy and who gets what in it (thinking taxes), how people are allowed to marry, worship, display their sexuality, and many, many more things too - from which politics cannot be separated! In fact, I can't think of any aspect of our lives public or private that are NOT affected by politics. So, while I might still love someone who likes a political person I don't, I doubt if our fundamental policy decisions could be that different. I know people who superficially disagree about individual politicians, but when you examine their beliefs they are not far apart, so it is a superficial thing for them to disagree about a politician while they still agree about how the world should be led.
How can anyone be really actively involved in the world they live in and the life they are leading without being moved by politics? How can anyone choose a partner without asking each other these questions and knowing what each other really think, and how they want to live? I just don't get how people who are so basically in disagreement about the world will live happily together - unless they are just superficially going through the motions! If we are really living in the real world we have to actively live with these leaders we elect - and we need to know that their actions have a real part in the quality of our lives. So, I wouldn't marry someone I didn't agree on these things with, and there would be no need to part with them later over political issues - unless we changed somehow. Don't people have deep discussions about these things before they agree to get very involved? Isn't that part of the loving process as you move toward more commitment? Isn't that still happening? What DO you base your involvement with others on, then? The way they comb their hair? the fact that they are willing to support you financially? is that enough?
I agree. My wife of 42 years and I have always agreed on politics. I made sure of that before we were married, and so did she. I can't imagine being married to a Tea Partier even if she looked like Nicole Kidman.
Ralph, I'm surprised to find you that narrow minded. lol. I wouldn't want to be married to a TPer OR to an extreme lib.
Habee, I doubt that you're really all that surprised! I could tolerate an old style, principled, Rockefeller Republican or even a Libertarian, but not a Tea Partier! And I'd dump a racist in the middle of our first date. She could walk home or catch a cab. Before I was married I went out with an attractive girl two or three times before discovering she was a lesbian. We didn't go out again but we remained friends.
I don't have time for a more thorough response right now (heading out for a BBQ!), but let me just say this.
My husband and I might disagree on many issues politically, but we deeply respect each other's motivations and reasons for believing the way we do. We don't insult each other's intelligence or character, just because we disagree on how and where the government should spend money. In other words, he might be conservative, but he has the humility, character, and common sense to understand that those with differing views will bring balance and depth to the discussions about, and solutions for, our shared problems. I believe the same. That is how people get along in any capacity, don't you think?
absolutely! You discuss these things and disagree sometimes - but I bet if you were to examine the top issues you would find yourselves in agreement about what needs to be done, maybe disagreeing on HOW to do it. I personally could not marry someone conservative - I mean really conservative. That's just me, it is very important to me, for instance, that my partner think its ok for gays to marry, and that religion does not belong in politics but we should worship freely, and that people's race, gender, age, creed, color, religion aren't how we are going to judge them. Most conservatives I know have problems in some of these areas and also think capitalism is the only wy to go - so it would be foolish for me to commit to a relationship with a conservative. I know there'd be a lot missing in our partnership and we would suffer.
Hi Mega. I think we actually pretty much agree with each other.
"it is very important to me, for instance, that my partner think its ok for gays to marry, and that religion does not belong in politics but we should worship freely, and that people's race, gender, age, creed, color, religion aren't how we are going to judge them."
This describes my conservative husband, and many others! It is unfortunate that the extremist conservatives have hijacked the conservative side of political discussion in the media, which is also reflected here in these forums.
For me personally, I often find I can actually like and respect someone a great deal if I disagree with their political opinions, yet they can back up their arguments rationally and don't throw their toys out of the pram when faced with opposing viewpoints.
Other people, whose views are more convergent with mine, will actually go down in my estimation if they do the toy throwing thing.
For me, "not toy throwing" versus "toy throwing" is actually far, far more important than Labour versus Conservative or Republican versus Democrat (which are all fairly similar anyway).
I think that people's core personality is sometimes very different to the political views they espouse - like say for example, someone who professes a belief in fair trade and social justice, then goes home and beats up his wife/kids. The core personality bit is the bit I pay most attention to - always has been.
Those who dump a loved on have no clue about loyalty or respect. WHo want to be with someone like that
ahh, well, I assume we are using the term "dump" rather loosely! I wouldn't partner up with someone who fundamentally disagreed with me about political issues in the first place. I don't understand why anyone would choose a mate who disagrees with them on political issues! I don't understand why anyone would choose to have their babies with someone who would disagree with them on how they should be raised! I don't understand how people can willfully disregard this huge part of life and venture into a MARRIAGE with someone who is never going to agree with them about fundamental issues. AND if I were in a partnership where I thought I understood that my partner and I were in agreement on most things, and then something changed one of us - so that suddenly my partner of all these years is now a CONSERVATIVE - something would have to give! I mean dump is not the way I'd do it, but I truly might split up with them - and if y'all think that's emotionally unbalanced, so be it. I think you all are living in fantasy world where you have sold out to the TV! "We disagree, but we respect each other!" well of course you respect the person you married! but you disagree on what, exactly? How we can even know who the heck we're voting for is a good question. When you say Obama and I say Obama - are we talking about the same person really? Or are we discussing it based on what our favorite TV newspeople tell us to think? Forgive me if I think that unfortunately all too often people are parroting what their hairdresser or some other favorite friend thinks, not on any real examination of the political actions of these people we vote for.
I have to think that there was far more going on in that relationship that whether or not one of them voted for George Bush. My guess is they were already well on the road to splitting and that was just another indication of it. I don't tell my wife what to think nor do I tell her who to vote for. We have discussions and both of us have our opinions. How we vote is still a personal matter to both of us and we respect each other's right to privacy in that regard. WB
I don't think anyone has gotten this point I'm making : Politics is NOT just about who you vote for when elections come around! Politics is the whole system we live in, how it works or doesn't work for us, and where we're going, day by day! If your partner disagrees with you on how to do all this, then how can you get along?
I guess first thing, any potential partner and I would have to agree on a definition of politics!!
While I understand what you're saying, I don't allow politics to define who I am and the way I live. If the way I live and think falls more liberal than conservative, that's how I choose to be. It's not because I'm this or that. I'm who I am. I have family and friends who have very different political beliefs than I do, and we get along great.
As far as your above comment, it's accepting who the person is and respecting their beliefs. And sometimes it's agreeing to disagree, which I've had to do with my sister in law a few times.
Politically speaking, even in these forums, I've come to respect certain hubbers who have opposite views, because of the way they interact.
I agree with you, too! I think you can "get along" with others who are basically 180 degrees away from you politically. But when it comes to sharing finances, a bed, a house, children, and making all those major decisions together? I prefer to feel like we're really on the same team. Unfortunately, politics is often played like a team sport in our country and it can lead to some really horrific problems between close relations, including the married kind. You are never going to convince me that it is ok for my partner to be a flaming conservative who will want to belittle every cause I stand for. That is just foolish, to me. I think when people are saying the things they say about having an open mind and respecting their close friends and relatives, they're actually saying "I don't want to upset the apple cart, and now that we know we disagree, I'm just not going to discuss this stuff with them. That is what we call respect." But hey, you're really going to be married to someone for like, 50 or 60 years maybe, who thinks you're an idiot for believing in an environmental agenda! Could I live with someone who would belittle me for saying "Peace. Namaste. Love." and meaning it? no If its not a problem for you to live with someone who disagrees about politics with you - then maybe you just aren't that involved in your opinions about politics and they don't matter to you. Maybe that's it.
Sorry Mega, your view is very narrow minded. It's like saying you would not date someone outside your race.
Race, politics, these items are just a small insignificant part of who that person is. Is that person charitable, tolarant, honorable, loyal, honest, well I could keep listing but those virtues are way more important than who the vote for or what political system you believe in.
Would you be pleased with that person because they have the same political viewsw as you but was never honest with you, or was sleeping with anything that moves? But its OK because we have the same poilitcal view.
you can call it narrow-minded - but its no worse than picking your mate on the strength of some really good times in bed and a couple bouquets of flowers! If people were more honest they would admit that people who are radically different politically and all kinds of other ways are just a turn-off and make all kinds of trouble (or perhaps a turn-on for some! but I wouldn't know) But me, personally, and that is what the OP asked for was our personal reaction - I would be entirely turned off by someone who didn't believe the same way I do about politics. There are a few things I'm willing to disagree with but politics is important - right up there with cleanliness, for me.
To question whether I'm a racist or sexist or stupid about a partner's faithfulness is just a childish way to attack my opinion. As usual, these forums are not the place for any rational discussion! Why should offend anyone at all if I want my partner to have the same political views I have?
Don't most people consider these things when they choose a partner? Not caring about the politics of someone you love is pretty much like saying you don't care what they think at all, isn't it? Isn't it a put down to say their opinion on politics doesn't matter? What a person thinks and the way they think is a big part of how I choose the people I love. And yes, I do CHOOSE the people I love (outside my family, and even a couple of them!) because I don't happen to believe the fairy tale about the big "Love At First Sight" whacking you over the head and handing you a lover who you will cherish and honor no matter what they think.
Stop being a true liberal for 2 seconds. Stop the twisting, and the rest. I dare you to show me where I called you a racist? Or stupid? that word does not even appear in my post. I didn't, I mearly pointed out to you that it is narrowminded to focus on 1 issue and dismiss the entire Person. Take Obama. He is the worst President of all time. However, he is intelligent, well spoken, humorous, and a good family man. I Do not dissmiss him as a person because of his political beliefs. But that is exactly what you would do.
Here is a piece of advise, if you do not want an answer to your opinion, do not give it. By the same token, do not question anyone elses. Telling us we do not get the point is a childish way of attacking us all and calling us all stupid and that your view is the only right view.
In my opinion Mega's view isn't narrow at all. It's a matter of compatibility on matters that aren't superficial at all and on which differences would tend to impair the relationship. So happens I just got home from a nice little French comedy called "Names of Love" which was about a delightful young woman who was half Arab and half French who devoted her life to converting conservative men to liberals by seducing them. She said there is a brief moment in which conservative men are susceptible to changing their minds. Quite a charming little movie, especially for anyone interested in politics and who has a sense of humor.
Ha! I knew eventually someone reasonable would show up and see my pov - that movie sounds right up my alley! I used to think that way, briefly, until I discovered that most really conservative men will say and do anything to get a young woman into bed - they will try to cover up their politics for quite a long while if they can, but fundamentally they stay conservative. It didn't really take me that long to figure this out. Now I wouldn't waste a good seduction on a conservative and instead simply release them back into the stream. I have a feeling a lot of people got their romantic ideas about what is important in a love-partner from some old movies that were made when it was considered important to encourage people to marry and procreate and populate the new world! and also that what women thought about politics was really unimportant and charmingly useless, but tolerated!
Me, too! I enjoy exchanging different viewpoints with rational people.
Mega, you prefaced it correctly, "I think". That is what you think, it's certainly not a factual assessment. It's not what I think. Although I understand where you're coming from, I actually think you're being judgmental of conservatives in the same way you feel they are judgmental of liberals. Labels are not who we are, nor do they necessarily categorize our lifestyles. I am much more conservative at work because of the business culture which is required of me. There is much more to life than 'policies.'
I think that people who are one way at work and another way at home are maybe overlooking something, or fooling themselves about how they think. I would also not try to pretend to be more conservative at work (I doubt if I could, because people would know how liberal I am the minute I walked in door - not wearing heels for example, nor make-up ) and I know I am judgmental about conservatives, because that is how I feel from my experience of the people who announce they are conservative. I don't deny that, and I realize that in reality people make judgments about each other - but I would not want to be in a marriage where we made judgments (assessments?) of each other based on political opinions. I am very opinionated and thrive in places where people welcom opinions. I can't stand the phoney baloney stuff that goes on in these forums and other places where people like to be "accepted" and in exchange completely limit and undermine who they really are. When people do this for the sake of their relationship or their job or even these superficial acquaintances online - how can we really really know each other? How can we respect our differences and still live our own lives? I know you didn't mean to open up this whole line of talk with me, but lately I have been keeping quiet because when I speak up I am either ignored or someone implies that my opinions are dangerous. Now, today, I feel like speaking up and at the same time encouraging others to do so too. I just don't get a definitive reply from people saying (an example) "You aren't considering this and this and thus and such." Instead, they are smilingly patting themselves on the back for being conciliatory and bland. Makes me wanna - I don't know what!
So the truth comes out. You are basing this on your failed relationships. You know, respct is a 2 way street, but I can see not with you. I am in a great relationship with a stronger liberal than the Kennedy's. I am an Independent. We have had great discussions on politics. We never argue on the topic yet. Mainly because we respect we have a different view. we try to convince each other, present our case and weigh the options.
But Politics is not the reason we are together, it is the reasons I gave you earlier on what makes a great relationship. What I do not want is a yes person. I do not want someone to completly agree with me on everything. We agree on alot, and not on other things. But discussions always lead to good things. Shame you do not see that.
Id dump a racist on the first date by i honestly wouldn't care if the voted for whom ever the pleased, its really stupid and shallow.
as soon as I posted my comment, I knew it would be taken more politically than I meant. I don't mean conservative in the political sense. All work environments have their own 'culture', what's expected in a professional sense. I mean that I comply with business expectations and what's expected in my profession. So yes, I am more conservative in my profession because I need to be. I don't change who I am. It has nothing to do with political 'politics', but professional business culture.
I don't even talk politics at work. HA. I don't have time! Nor do I think it's necessary.
Mega, I really do understand where you're coming from. I agree with much of what you say. I just think that often people miss out on meaningful friendships/relationships because we perceive that a 'conservative' or 'liberal' is a certain way. It's simply not true. I think humans make relationships much harder than is necessary. Peace.
Izettl has a hub about Political Stereotyping which is a good read.
Thank you Rebakah, she does not get it
Didn't anyone ever tell you people not to discuss politics online? Fools, I tells ya!
Personally, no, I wouldn't end an otherwise healthy relationship on discovering that my girlfriend had voted for Bush, though there may be a few probing questions about her eligibility to participate in US elections.
Mainstream political parties are broadly similar - no matter how we paint them in the media and in our own heads the left and right don't differ quite as much as we like to think, and to torch a relationship over such a little thing seems a little absurd.
HOWEVER (and this is a big however), I remember going on the first date from hell many, many years ago. Within a hour of meeting the girl she'd boasted - actually boasted, as if proud that she was exercising her hard-earned right - of having had two abortions by the time she'd turned 20. Within moments she topped herself by telling me she voted for the BNP (British National Party), a repellent group who run on a platform of intolerance, hate and the belief that all of our problems will be solved just as soon as we track down anyone with a skin tone tending towards the dusky and 'send them home'. This is a party whose deputy leader once stated 'we are 100% racist'.
So, yeah, there's a point at which political belief becomes a factor in a relationship. Politics affects life so much that you just can't get through the day with someone whose beliefs and values are so different from your own. A liberal dumping a Bush voter, though? Come on. That's like dumping a girl for drinking tea instead of coffee.
*Edit* I was just reminded of a sketch from the comic geniuses (genii?) Mitchell and Webb. If you have 3 and a half minutes to spare you should watch a much more sensible reason to end a relationship: avocado bathroom fittings:
"How could you sleep a wink knowing that somewhere in your house mute ceramic witness was being payed to your total inability to bow to the prevailing taste consensus?"
When I talk about extreme views I include racism, homophobia, etc. Those would be deal breakers. However, disagreeing on policy is different and should not ruin a relationship. Like Pretty Panther and her husband.
I totally agree with American View...there's a first
I wouldn't date someone because of their religious or political beliefs, but I wouldn't get a divorce for it. I would question my husband and find out his logic in voting the direction he did and try to talk him out of it. If he finds logic in his decision, that's fine.
I wouldn't divorce him for it, but if his political beliefs differed greatly from mine all of a sudden, I don't think our marriage would last. It really depends on what policies he agrees with and why.
That said, my aunt votes one way and her husband, my uncle, votes another and they'll argue about it, but then that's it. Politics aren't at the forefront of their lives, so it's not a big deal to them.
I am very political, very __-winged, so all I can honestly say is that it depends.
There are some ideas on the other side of the fence that would be deal-breakers and then some that I don't agree with, but wouldn't be a huge enough problem for divorce.
I think that, whether people recognize it or not, this discussion is heavily tainted with political stereotypes. Many liberals automatically think "Tea Partier" when they think about a conservative. Many conservatives automatically think "Socialist" when they think about a liberal.
The truth is that most conservatives and liberals fit neither of those labels. Those who buy into those labels are merely tools for those who profit from the discord.
I feel incredibly sad about it, really.
Vygotsky, an early childhood theorist, has shown that humans are subjects of our culture rather than natural processes. Much of how and what we think is constructed in early childhood by our environment, our social and cultural imprints. As we mature (some never do), our reasoning and logical skills are developed and enhanced. Values are neither red or blue.
So a Tutsi shares nothing in common with a Lap? A woman in 2011 has nothing in common with a soldier in Hadrian's Army? Ideas about what we are does inform our politics, our personal action, etc.... If not how can one advocate for the taking of a man's property and another resist it by violence? What shared value is there in those actions?
I must admit I too am extremely wary of the "environment is everything" viewpoint - it seems to be very much a pet theory in certain corners of academe.
In reality I suspect that who we are and how we think is down to a 50-50 mixture of nature and nurture.
I was actually supporting your view with my post. Humans share commonalities and yet we are very different, our views and values being constructed by input and observations. I don't think there's a 50/50 demarcation of nurture/nature, we are all complex human beings. And how we develop and construct our world is very much dependent on how we internally process what happens externally.
I think of a quote from Plato's Republic.
"You know that the beginning is the most important part of any work, especially in the case of a young and tender thing; for that is the time at which the character is being formed and the desired impression is more readily taken..."
hey all...my two cents...(I may want some change back on that)...If she suddenly became an out-of-the-closet fascist...you know...one minute...normal girl...next minute...(boom)...fascist? Yeah I would dump her. Lot of rallies...lot of book burning events to attend...no time to write when you date a fascist girl...
So much saluting...so much marching. You're right tho...flame is flattering (I hear it's the new black). I have a suspicion that my last girlfriend (who turned out to be a fascist) was bringing my stuff to the book burning shit. Wtf? They're not even books...just post-it-notes. She claimed they needed kindling. Alas...wtf?
I dunno, it would depend on a few things.
First, why did they vote for W? If they can articulate a reason that makes sense (even if I don't agree with it) then that's not a reason to break up.
Second, how many times did they vote for W? 'Cos I can see voting for W the first time around. He seemed like a decent enough guy, and the other guy wasn't perfect either, so, sure, I could respect a W vote in 2000. But after the first term? I dunno...it'd be pretty hard to convince me there was a good reason to vote for him in '04. (Not impossible, I guess, but really, really hard).
Now, understand that I'm friends with several W supporters. But there's a difference between "friends" and "spouses."
I suppose the biggest arguments would be about political contributions and/or volunteering. Would the liberal feel good about taking care of the kids while the conservative volunteers for the right-wing candidate? Would the conservative be willing to take a stint watching the kids so the liberal could volunteer for the left-wing candidate? Would they agree to donate an equal amount to each candidate, or would they decide that since their donations would cancel each other out anyway, not to donate at all?
And of course, it would depend on how politically involved each spouse was to begin with. If one person is fairly disconnected, they might not mind so much that their partner disagrees with them on most political issues.
So, no, by itself, finding out that my hypothetical girlfriend has opposing political beliefs wouldn't be a show-stopper. But it would be something I'd factor in when deciding whether to take the relationship to the next level. Another part of it would be how she felt about people who disagree with her. If she couldn't tolerate disagreement, then that'd be a clue that the relationship wasn't going to last. One time in college, a girlfriend told me that she had no respect for public school teachers, because they were only in it for the money. I asked her what she meant by that (knowing a bit about what public school teachers make, and knowing that it isn't exactly big bucks), and she said that private school teachers are the only true teachers, because they make even less. There were other issues in that relationship, but that silly line of reasoning was the nail in the coffin. It's kind of funny, because this girl was otherwise very smart. Oh, well.
...only if he tells me that he can see the lights of Russia from his house.
I had two friends that were dating with radically different political beliefs for almost two years. It is very much possible, though I am fairly certain both of them decided to avoid the topic because they knew how different their beliefs were. I think they broke up for a different reason, but you can never be too certain.
I remember this thread from a few years ago. I miss the smart people on the right who used to post here. Where did they go? LOL, I'm guessing they've deserted the sinking ship.
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