Christian Discussion
Oh dear people for what reason do we fight?
Not one can claim he truly knows the right
for divine inspiration has not fallen upon any of us
so let us not be quick to make a fuss
As your savior Jesus
And his prophet Mohammad
And their revered Moses
All preached and said
that peace and manners take the head.
If you wish to convince a person of your religion
then it is best you do it through action
as opposed to a long post detailing your position
I hold my belief and you hold yours
allow disputes to be settled by those educated in such scores
for in reality
we are among the majority
who speak as though we carry the knowledge of kings and scholars
when all we do is shoot screams and hollers.
Keep level headed my friends
for life isn't made for such petty bends.Umm...
LOL
You're trying to mix religions so much that none of them have any set doctrine.
Sorry, but that doesn't work.
Because indeed there is divine inspiration; that's how the Bible was written. And in that Book, we sure do have the knowledge of "scholars and kings", some who were erroneous (as is shown there) and some who, like King David and King Solomon, handed down their own history of their interaction with God Himself. We Christians do not just improvise and put forth our own ideas. We go by the Holy Book, and by inspiration from God Himself also, and are just as capable of interpreting the Bible correctly as the Prophets/Apostles were of writing it!
- Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago
0Okay, from the thread "Teachers as God", here is a quote from Melissa about her view of Christ.
----------------------------
MelissaBarrett wrote:
Most people consider Unitarians to be Christian Brenda. I'm not talking UU. I'm talking Unitarian.
I don't really see Jesus as a prophet, per say... more of a teacher. I don't see him as a savior... per say... but as a guide to being righteous and living according to my God's plan.
Most of my views are close to Thomas Jefferson's (I only use him because there's so much on record about his views) I think Jesus' teachings are the way to salvation, although I don't believe he himself was a child of God any more than anyone else was. I don't believe in a resurrection. I don't believe in a virgin birth... or many of the other "mystical" parts of the bible.
I do believe Jesus was killed for his teaching. I believe that that ends his living story on Earth.
------------------and who are you to decide what makes someone a 'true christian' and what standard do you hold them to? Yours? What gives you the right to decide whether or not someone else is a believer or not? Isn't that putting yourself in god's seat and passing judgement - which is exactly what your christ was so against? Isn't that what the pharisees did - and got reamed continually by jesus for it? Unless you're claiming to be god, you're at the very least assuming that he needs help judging others.
What are you getting all defensive about?
Melissa outright says she doesn't believe much of the Bible's description of Jesus. For your information, it is the Biblical description of Jesus that Christians do go by. That's common knowledge. The virgin birth and Christ's resurrection are two major pieces of the Christian doctrine, and without those (and without some others as well), the entire view falls far short of any valid Christian belief.
If Melissa wants to believe as she does, then that's her business, but she can't validly call it a Christian belief since it doesn't fit the Bible's words about who Jesus is.
So you can hold your horsey and stop trying to put me on the defensive just because she and you are determined to change the definition of Christianity.I think it's rude and uncalled for to call another hubber out BY NAME and start throwing accusations around when you're talking to someone else in an open thread.
As for the description of Jesus - not all Christians go by it. there are as many definitions of Jesus as there are christian denominations - and hardly any two denominations agree on practically any subject. You can stand there and insist that your version and your interpretation is correct, but it's just your opinion. No one has to agree with you - and you can't tell them that they're wrong when they don't. The bible is one of the most ambiguous books in existence. Everyone has a different interpretation of it. that's one of the reasons that makes it impossible for me to accept it.
She can call it whatever she wants. She doesn't claim to speak for all christians, so her definition of her own beliefs should have no bearing on you, and it shouldn't offend you.
I'm not trying to change the definition of Christianity by pointing out hypocrisy. I'm trying to point out that just because someone's version disagrees with yours does not automatically make yours correct. Why should I give a crap about the definition of Christianity? I'm not a christian. If this is the best you can do as a response, it demonstrates one thing very clearly - you're on the defensive because your christianity is a dying breed, and you're simply desperate to hang onto it.I wasn't throwing accusations around. I was simply referring to Melissa's own words as to her view of Christianity.
It is you and her who are throwing accusations around! LOL.
If anyone wants to directly quote any posts of mine, quoting them word for word without changing them, as I just quoted Melissa's words exactly, then I have no problem with that, and neither should you or her or anyone else have any problem with me exactly quoting someone's words.
Shucks, you just now called ME out BY NAME! So has Melissa time after time. I don't have a problem with that. What's your real beef anyway?
Matter of fact, if you and anyone else would take the time to find mine and some other Christians' words in reference to the WBC, you'd find proof that no Christian here has condoned the actions and words of that "Church". I personally have stated several times that the members of that Church are doing wrong. And indeed it's not right for Melissa or anyone else to try to lump all Christians in with the doings of that particular sect of Christianity, if indeed it even is Christian at all. Melissa insinuated a few posts above that Christians are people who would commit the atrocities like 9/11 and condone the hatred of the WBC. That's just not right by any stretch of the imagination.
So............whatever, when it comes to letting you or her or anyone try to condemn me and other Christians in that manner. Whatever! But don't expect us to just cower down and take the false accusations. I try to never get personal when it comes to discussing religion, but if someone else makes it personal with me, then I have the guts and the will to point out that hypocrisy. THAT style of behavior is hypocrisy, I'll tell you, since you seem to be unable or unwilling to even see what your own words and actions are.Brenda, c'mon. Be fair. You know there is a difference between speaking to someone directly and informing them that you disagree with them and speaking about someone when they are not present. Even if you speak the truth, you are in essence making a very sincere attempt to detract from Melissa's character. In general, she does not speak about you when you are not present in a forum. It's not right that you would do that to her.
And here's the deal - even if you two dislike each other, even if you disagree on what it means to be a Christian - you BOTH hold to the behavior of Christ as the ultimate example of how to live your lives.Really?
Would Christ accuse me of doing something I didn't do?
I don't think so.
Believe me, EVERY human being has enough issues to answer to Christ for, without being accused of things they didn't do! And that's another thing---------Melissa's words also said she has no accountabilitly to God for anything. Us Christians know we ARE accountable to God for everything we do! The only thing is that, since we're so imperfect, we have to count on the pure blood of Jesus Christ to cover us, even when we're trying! Because our best efforts on our own would fall waaay short of God's requirements.
I've been accused time after time of being like the Westboro Baptist Church members. Even after I've stated time after time that those people are not doing right when they picket funerals and hold up signs that lie about what the Bible says.
So please don't even accuse ME of trying to detract from Melissa's character! It is she who has been doing that to me all along.
I quoted her word for word. That's not me trying to detract from her character! It's me defending myself form HER insinuation that I'm not behaving like a Christian and her accusing ME of hating people like the WBC does.
And if there's anything that detracts from her character in her own posts, that's her issue, not mine.
Matter of fact, it's to my credit that I DID show proof.
Unlike her and others who refuse to pull up proof of MY words where I denounce the actions of the WBC etc. Why would they refuse to do that? Seems it must be because they want an excuse to keep making personal insinuations and accusations about me.
You...please be fair! Or are you trying to accuse me falsely too??No. I'm not accusing you falsely. I'm observing active behavior, right here, in this moment. If you feel a need to get defensive with me, that's fine. I didn't attack you at all. I'm sorry if that's how you see it. If you're miffed with Melissa or with Julie or with anyone else, feel free to take it up with them - in their presence. But don't give me crap because I call you out on behavior that a two-year old would recognize as unfair.
Don't give you c__p?
Then don't jump all over me about something that didn't even involve you.
And a two-year-old would recognize being falsely accused as poor behavior, yes, indeed.
- Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
Here is another from the same thread--------------
-----------------------------------
Melissa Barrett wrote:
"I don't believe in rapture either.
I don't believe that God was Jesus' literal father nor that God sent him in any specific way.
I don't believe he was resurrected.
I don't believe that Baptism is based on John's teachings nor did it predate Calvinism.
My church doesn't have a doctrine.
Cults don't produce 6 presidents.
I've read the pure word. I don't need to be taught anything.
All the above arguments are exactly as valid as yours.
Have a good day." - Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
And here is another one from that thread--------------
----------------------
MelissaBarrett wrote:
I'll go by the census bureau and the traditional definitions.
Since most history books say there has never been a non-Christian president, yet 6 presidents have been Unitarian...
However, it doesn't really matter, I guess what other people think my religion is. I know I am a Christian. I'm not a protestant though.
Not all UU's are Christian. The faith accepts all beliefs and none. I am a Unitarian and a Unitarian Universalist. The terms are mutually exclusive. - Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
And by the way, no, the Bible is not THAT ambiguous! lol.
It doesn't take a genius to understand the main meaning of the Bible, nor to sort out the important key points of what Christianity is!
And since you said you don't really care, then that's cool, so maybe you won't try again to point out Biblical hypocrisy since you don't even know what's in the Bible!I don't? As a christian for 20+ years, and a student of biblical literature and theology, you think I don't know what's in the bible? You may want to know who you're talking to before throwing those kinds of assumptions around. I read the bible in over 4 languages including Greek, Latin and Hebrew - and I read it every single day as an atheist. How many of the original languages do you read?
If the bible is not ambiguous, can you explain to me why there are over 44,000 different denominations of Christianity alone - and that NONE of them agree on interpretation, doctrine or meaning? that seems pretty damn ambiguous to me.It's not ambiguous because God said so! He totally told me so, last night during our weekly poker game.
It's not the fault of the Bible.
It's the fault of the person who's interpreting (or claiming to interpret) that Book.
If a person really wants to get it right, they will.
Many "denominations" (and some veer off so far that they're not Christian denominations, but are an entirely separate religion, even) simply want to make their own Churches, for the sake of their own pride and fame, instead of actually searching out the Scriptures and getting it right. Man is prone to being selfish in many ways. They want to make something in their name(s) instead of in the Name of Christ.
The major proof of that that's easily seen is the fact that so many Churches focus now on numbers instead of salvation. Salvation is the most important message the Bible puts forth. Many Churches want to ignore that and count the number of members they can draw into their particular Church.and of course you mean that christianities that don't agree with your interpretation or doctrines aren't "true christianities" at all. Of course they aren't. Because you're the ultimate judge and all. How could I miss that?
You do realize, of course, that they would say the same thing about you. I hate to break it to you but just insisting that you're right does not make you actually right.
Do you know what the "no true 'scottsman" fallacy is in the world of logic?It is the Bible's words that contain the balance scale to determine whether someone's following Christ or not. I didn't make the scale. God did. And as I said, it doesn't take a genius to see that. The Bible's intent is so easily interpreted that even a little child can understand that Christ died for their sins, and that He is the ONLY way to salvation.
Do you have a problem with someone who knows what's right? I can't help that.you only know what's right to you. Not everyone is going to agree with you, and they're just as entitled to their opinions and interpretations as you are - and unless you're putting yourself on equal footing with god, you have no place to judge their interpretations or beliefs as incorrect. it's your opinion, nothing more. I respect that you cling to your beliefs like glue, but simply asserting and repeating that your views are correct do not make them so.
Originally, i was not responding to the posts of melissa's that you copied and pasted. I was (and I believe that Mo was too) referring to the fact that you called Melissa out BY NAME while you were talking to someone else, and talking about her behind her back since she is not currently active in this conversation at the moment. It's rude. I'm sorry that you can't see it that way. How would you like to run across a forum thread that was all about you and your character where everyone was talking negatively about you by name when you weren't around to defend yourself? I don't think that you'd like it very much. I sure wouldn't. If you have something to say to someone, say it to them. You certainly have no problem telling things to Melissa's face - but you also have no problem discussing her in a post to someone else completely unrelated to the conversation when melissa herself isn't around. To me that's little more than gossip - detracting someone behind their back - you know, the very thing that christians aren't supposed to be doing.Excuse you, you both then! Not.
I wasn't around here when Melissa was talking about ME "behind my back" last night or hours ago or whenever it was. I wasn't around for the post below. I only saw it a little while ago.
So honestly, you guys can stop accusing me of doing something that had already been done to me! And especially take note of the false accusation about the WBC, which she didn't even bother to try to show any proof whatsoever of.
I've had enough of this. The proof is below, in an exact quote. SHE was talking about ME "behind my back" (since that's how you wanted to phrase it).
Didn't bother me. I know I can always come back and pull up last night's conversation or last week's or whatever, and respond to it then.
So it's silly of you to try to accuse me of talking "behind someone's back", because that person can always do just what I did-----go back to the posts and respond to them when they find them. And, actually, none of us have the capability of knowing when someone IS online anyway, unless there's a notification or list around here that I've never seen of who's online at any particular time.
Let me reiterate---I didn't know people where talking about me starting with the post below UNTIL tonight. And that's not the only post either.
I want to know why you didn't get all over her for talking behind MY back??
So please stop accusing me, will you? This is getting tiresome and old, and I would much prefer to talk to people who have a sense of fairness and honesty and the ability to debate without distracting by nonsensical matters that have no bearing on the topic at hand.
MelissaBarrett wrote:
I'm very passionate about my religion. I'm just not passionate about HER view of my religion. That's what bothers her.
She believes she has the only version of Christianity and those who don't believe exactly like she does aren't Christians.
She's passionate alright. So are the folks from WBC. Does being on fire for Christ do them good?That is a little different, as that was in a thread you were both actively participating in, to someone you were both speaking to at the time.
Ummm....no, I wasn't speaking to anyone at the time. I wasn't even on this site at the time.
There is no difference at all EXCEPT for the fact that I showed proof of what was said, unlike her.
Why are you so eager to accuse me?Huh? That's a ridiculous question.
I'm not at all eager to feel accused. I simply will defend myself tooth and nail from false personal accusations.
I like having an earnest and honest discussion about things.
I really had started thinking that that might be possible with you, but I guess not.
No, She's right. I did make a comment about her behind her back and Melissa responded and we held a conversation.. Sorry Brenda
Thank you Deepes Mind!
I don't blame you. I don't think you did anything wrong!
This whole thing has been twisted so far it would be laughable if it wasn't so mean-spirited.
You have nothing to apologize for, as far as I can see.
But I sure do appreciate you setting the record straight on that!
I was feeling really overwhelmed, especially out-numbered....I stand corrected. I was under the impression that you were actively participating in a conversation at that time with Deepes. For that, I apologize. But why do we always have to jump to DO the same kinds of things to other people that we feel have been wrongly done to us? There's no way to take a higher ground? And, again, Brenda, I was not accusing you of anything. Look up the word detraction. You will see that you were participating in that behavior.
Brenda, you can call me a lot of things, but mean-spirited is not one of them.
Thank you, though, for sharing your real thoughts about my character. I'm grateful to be armed with that information moving forward.Either which way, It was my comments that opened it up. I dislike being the source of any conflict or confusion. Had I not made the comments I did, Melissa wouldn't have said anything about you like she did at that point.
The bible isn't ambiguous, peoples perceptions of it can be a various as the number of people there are alive at any given time. Ask an investigator about witnesses.
Raised Christian Scientist, and Catholic, settled into the Christian Missionary Alliance denomination, Baptist, Methodist,and Evangelical Swedish Covenant, and nondenominational churches because we relocated. We would not have stayed in any of them had they not had the same thread. That thread in never ambiguous.
- Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
http://youtu.be/e4BogEf_LpQ
We believe in God the Father
We believe in Christ the Son
We believe in the Holy Spirit
We are the Church and we stand as one
We believe in the Holy Bible
We believe in the virgin birth
We believe in the resurrection
That Christ one day will return to earth
Holy holy...Holy is our God
Worthy worthy...Worthy is our King
All glory and honor Are His to receive
To Jesus we sing...Because we believe
We believe in the blood of Jesus
We believe in eternal life
We believe in the blood that frees us
To become the Bride of Christ
To Jesus we sing...Because we believe
To Jesus we sing...Because we believe
To Jesus we sing...Because we believe - Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
Honestly, this is one of those times when I wish I could just forget the whole thing happened.....
except for the fact that I have an even deeper respect for Deepes Mind.
Brenda, I'll tell you what. I'll forget it if you will, and I'll ask you to forgive it to. Perhaps I sounded harsher than I realized last night, and I didn't mean to be that way. Deepes is one of my favorites - all around.
I'm pleased to know you respect him. He deserves it. I just get frustrated sometimes because regardless of our differences in belief or opinion, I see us as a family here and I get my hackles up when I feel like we're being less than fair to each other. NOT nice - just fair. Forgiven?AWWW!! I feel the love..
Hey, We all make mistakes and do things that aren't the coolest at times. There are two important things to remember: We can repent and be ok, and God commanded us to love one another as well as forgive each other 70 times 7 for each offense..I respect Deepes Mind's actions because even though we've "argued" before and we disagree in a major way on some issues, he hasn't to my knowledge made any personal attack on me; just the opposite, he pointed out the truth here and defended me. I highly respect people when they behave in that honest and respectful way.
Yes, Motown, if you're sincere, I forgive you!
Forgetting is different sometimes.
I don't think I can forget, but I will be trying. No matter what, I hold no vengeance. I do not hold grudges.
I think you'll understand, though, if I'm cautious from here on out in my interaction with you and some others. I'm not a glutton for punishment for things I didn't do, nor for being compared to a hate group that I've denounced many times.
I love everyone's soul, and I love and respect everyone on a personal level, since they're just human like I am. But I have no command from God to respect anyone's religion nor their opposing opinions; only to love and respect them as a fallible human being as I am also.
Contrary to some opinions, Christians' hearts aren't made of stone. Our convictions may be set in stone, but not our hearts. They're actually just as soft or softer than others'.
Sometimes a person has to love the other person from a distance.To my recollection, the only thing you and I have really disagreed on is the way I chose to communicate with another hubber. In the conversation that I am referring to (not to rehash it completely), I personally believe that sometimes in order to reach some people, you sometimes have to address them using their own language and understanding even as you are presenting an opposing point of view..
No, I've not consciously made any personal attacks on you or anyone else here. Then again, I've learned that here on HP, people have different opinions of what constitutes a personal attack ranging from name calling to simple disagreement of beliefs. With this in mind, I try to be careful of what I say while still presenting my views.
There is no issue with presenting the truth of a situation, especially since the situation centered around a conversation I started with an innocent enough (I thought) statementBrenda, dear and precious sister. You keep going my dear friend. Phil 4:13 One day in heaven we will know how our witness for Christ touched a heart and or by the Spirit of Truth in us led a soul(s) to Jesus. Seed planter you are. I love ya sista. In Christ Skye.
- Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
http://youtu.be/O5_Z3ZZYLDc
Sweetly Broken
by
Jeremy Riddle
TO THE CROSS I LOOK AND TO THE CROSS I CLING
OF IT'S SUFFERING I DO DRINK
OF IT'S WORK I DO SING
ON IT MY SAVIOR BOTH BRUISED AND CRUSHED
SHOWED THAT GOD IS LOVE
AND GOD IS JUST
AT THE CROSS YOU BECKON ME
YOU DRAW ME GENTLY TO MY KNEES, AND I AM
LOST FOR WORDS SO LOST IN LOVE
I AM SWEETLY BROKEN WHOLLY SURRENDERED
WHAT A PRICELESS GIFT UNDESERVED LIFE
HAVE I BEEN GIVEN
THROUGH CHRIST CRUCIFIED
YOU CALLED ME OUT OF DEATH
YOU CALLED ME INTO LIFE
AND I WAS UNDER YOUR WRATH
NOW THROUGH THE CROSS IM RECONCILED
AT THE CROSS YOU BECKON ME
YOU DRAW ME GENTLY TO MY KNEES AND I AM
LOST FOR WORDS SO LOST IN LOVE,
I AM SWEETLY BROKEN WHOLLY SURRENDERED
AT THE CROSS YOU BECKON ME
YOU DRAW ME GENTLY TO MY KNEES AND I AM
LOST FOR WORDS SO LOST IN LOVE,
I AM SWEETLY BROKEN WHOLLY SURRENDERED
IN AWE OF THE CROSS I MUST CONFESS
HOW WONDROUS YOUR REDEEMING LOVE AND
HOW GREAT IS YOUR FAITHFULNESS
AT THE CROSS YOU BECKON ME
YOU DRAW ME GENTLY TO MY KNEES AND I AM
LOST FOR WORDS SO LOST IN LOVE
I AM SWEETLY BROKEN WHOLLY SURRENDERED
AT THE CROSS YOU BECKON ME
YOU DRAW ME GENTLY TO MY KNEES AND I AM
LOST FOR WORDS SO LOST IN LOVE
I AM SWEETLY BROKEN WHOLLY SURRENDERED
IM BROKEN FOR YOU
IM BROKEN FOR YOU MY LORD
JESUS, WHAT LOVE IS THIS
I AM SWEETLY BROKENhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhiSgXz_l20
Powerwolf - Sanctified with Dynamite
Satani, Satani, in amus dignita
Satani, Satani, e vade retro sagitta
We came to fight in the army of Christ
Armed with a fistful of steel
Send to inferno the demons allied
Prayer for prayer the deal
We are the storm and the wicked inside,
More than a martyr can take
Fire them back to the dark of the night
Pray for this time we awake
And we all
Die, die, die tonight
Sanctified with dynamite
Die, die, dynamite
Halleluja!
We are damned in the night
Sanctified with dynamite
And at midnight we come for your blood
We are cursed and denied
Holy lord of dynamite
And at midnight forever we are
Die, die, dynamite
Born of tornado, we bring you the night
Pray for we all detonate
Heroes in heaven and servants in life
Kill us before it's too late
Like a messiah we end crucified
Into damnation we rode
Torn into pieces of soldiers divine
Ehre sei gott, we explode
And we all
Die, die, die tonight
Sanctified with dynamite
Die, die, dynamite
Halleluja!
We are damned in the night
Sanctified with dynamite
And at midnight we come for your blood
We are cursed and denied
Holy lord of dynamite
And at midnight forever we are
Die, die, dynamite
Die, die, dynamite
Die, die, dynamite
Halleluja!
Die, die, dynamite
Die, die, dynamite
Die, die, dynamite
We are damned in the night
Sanctified with dynamite
And at midnight we come for your blood
We are cursed and denied
Holy lord of dynamite
And at midnight forever we are
Die, die, dynamiteEhhh......
I didn't follow that link this time.
Too much references to "Satani"? and "we are the wicked".........whatever
Give me something powerful but good, something challenging, something that elicits compassion and Love and grace even during an onslaught of hatred from the Devil. Eh.........something like what Jesus did when He died on the Cross.................or perhaps you can't find anything to compare to that?...........I understand, because nothing compares to it!
I love you guys, but seriously I really don't care about Brenda's opinions.
Like I've said before, I am quite comfortable in my Christianity. If I ever need anyone to define MY faith, I'll give her a call. Right now though, I'm good.
I will say that if I really thought her version of Christianity was the end-all definition, I would burn my Bible. That version drives people away from Christ in groves... which is why that version is dying in every developed nation. The only converts they get are ones born in or those they discover in ignorant undeveloped areas.
My God is an omnipotent God... and an evolutionary one. He knew the world was going to change as humans became closer to him. The Bible was written for those in another time who couldn't think beyond basic needs and needed guidance for their life. It also has beautiful metaphorical lessons for the time that we, as a species, had progressed beyond herding goats and marrying our sisters.
I think there are maybe one, two generations at most before everybody is finally on the same page. The version of Christianity that is dying now was meant to die. Brenda is one of the last representatives of that primitive version.Oh wow. Here we go again. A "Christian" who talks of burning the Holy Bible! Whoa.
LOL.
I LOVE it if I really am a representative of the Biblical version of Christianity. Not if, but since I am.
Actually.........this is odd, but I thought everyone understood that that IS THE version of Christianity------the Bible! There is no other valid "version", no other Book that contains the true history and biography of Jesus like the Bible does. The two things go hand in hand----------the Holy Bible, and being a Christian.
Wait. I said "biography". Well, it is. But it's also Jesus's autobiography, written at inspiration of the Holy Ghost, which IS one and the same as Jesus/God.
Amen.
Amazing that anyone thinks that Christianity and the Bible are things that "evolve" and are subject to changing at the whim of people.
The "version" of Christianity that you claim is dying now is never gonna die. Some people may deny it, lots of people actually, but it is the one that the Lord says will contain a remnant of true followers of His. Remember people make choices. God isn't gonna force anyone to follow Him. But, like us Christians', His heart does sorrow as he watches people deny and attack the Faith, and depart from the Faith and dismiss His sacrifice and Love for them.
If it weren't for the sake of people's souls, I wouldn't care what anyone thinks either, Melissa. But I don't have to be like you, thank God, and be apathetic about eternity. True Christians do care about people's souls; it is the very reason for the Word (written, and in the flesh) to begin with!
So if it weren't for your soul, I wouldn't care about your opinion either. I simply pray and hope for the salvation of your soul.
No amount of insult or aggression will make me not care about the souls of people, because that's what's in the Savior's heart-----Love for mankind, wanting to offer them a chance to go to Heaven, so much so that He gave His life for us all, so that whosoever of us will choose Him will have eternal life. If my Savior is able to Love those who killed Him, those who denied Him, those who still to this day will mock Him and twist His words and accuse His followers, then I can Love them too. He even commands me too, so that makes it imperative.
Not my fault if others don't Love me with the same Love; I'm just so grateful that HE Loves me with an eternal Love. I wish that would be the goal of everyone. That's what's in a true Christian's heart--------yes indeed, this "version" of Christianity that's attacked from every side, the true "Church" that Jesus set in place as He saw the fallibility of Peter, yet the willingness of Peter to return to Jesus and keep striving to be with Him eternally. The gates of hell will not prevail against it either. Two things that make up the "rock" of the Church. The knowledge that we are humans and therefore fallible, and the knowledge that Jesus is God and therefore perfect; meaning we recognize our imperfections, and must depend on His awesome power and mercy for our salvation.
Gotta know who/what we are and who/what we are not; and who/what God is and who/what He is not! Now that's basic Christianity 101. ha. But made so complicated sometimes by people who can't see............Yes dear, whatever you say.
Do try not to hurt yourself in your excitement.
- Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
(John 3:16)
I'm a "whosoever". Thank You Lord for saving my soul!Mar_4:39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.
You know, storms are going to come to us. At times we may fear or become defensive. God is always in control. The greater the storm, the greater the attack against us by Satan himself. He knows his days are few and the end is near. << This was directed to Brenda more than anyone else.
______________________________________________________________________
What is below is for anyone who will listen and receive what is written.
The Word of God can do 2 things to non believers. It can chase them away or it can draw them in. Every person must make a conscious decision to believe in Jesus or not. One thing believers must not do is to become a stumbling block to non believers or the newly converted.
If you read the Bible, especially the New Testament with the teachings of Jesus, you will see that many received His teachings and followed Him. You will also see that many refused and became even more vile than before.
When Jesus would save someone, He would always say, "Go and sin no more." The ways of the world has crept into the Church so much so that it is hard to tell one from the other. God knows who is right and who is not. He will judge according to His own righteousness and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
Jesus died for the sins of the world. All sins are forgiven but not all are saved. The verse Brenda posted states, "Whosoever believes in Him." Do you believe? You must believe in order to be saved. It goes on to say, "Shall not perish." What it is saying is non believers will perish.
It is time to decide right now. Salvation is at hand but might be gone even before I click to post this. No one has a promise of tomorrow or even our next breath.Thank you my brother in Christ.
Amen to all you've said here, and I pray for the lost souls who need to heed. Yes, today is the day of salvation!
- SirDentposted 10 years ago0
Luk_10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Amen. My name is written in heaven. Dante's Inferno is a classic of Christian literature, so it makes sense that a song about it would belong here.
Iced Earth - Dante's Inferno
Through the fiery caverns we sail
Virgil at my side my guide and master
Questing through the nine plains of hell
Infernal wisdom shall fill my soul
Slowly now the days departing
The darkened air releases me
Frightening visions of my journey
Entrance me to limbo I'm not
Free
Abandon all hope who enter here
Enter the gates, Charon awaits
Abandon all hope who enter here
For this is where all things are left behind
Every doubt and every cowardice must die
Souls of rage and anger whipping in despair
The souls that wail on this plain pray for death
Denial is the reason for their suffering
Forever being stung by wasps and demons breath
The blood and tears that fall serve the maggots need
Descention, thrusting to the second plain
Minos judges as his tail twines
Lustful thoughts and greed whip these wretched souls
A hurricane of hate mocks their helpless pleas
Drifting now down deeper, into eternal flames
Awake at the third circle, the cold and filthy rain
Punished for their gluttony, languid for all time
The earth it stinks of corpses, damned for all time
The vicious beast Cerebus, three heads, blooded eyes
Tears his talons through the air, all the sinners cry
Down, be still thy cursed wolf
The master scorns its name
Dive to the next plain
The sullen and the vain
Suffer for greed
The prodigal they bleed
For all eternity
Plutus holds the key
Damned, the wrathful and the vain
Suffer the fifth plain
Cross the river Styx
Heed your crucifix
The mudded corpses cry
Howling to the sky
Reach the other side
Open wide the gate
Enter the sixth circle of barren land and flames
Passing through the gate of dis the furies scream her name
Belching forth in agony invoking her to rise
The spirit's rage consuming us the evil in their cries
Queen of vipers, queen of serpents
Cast their souls to stone
Spread to wealth of Gorgon's power
Medusa¹s inner soul
We¹re drawing ever closer to the seventh hell
They violate their neighbors, their god and themselves
We're sailing slowly through the boiling river of blood
Immersed in the depths below souls scream in agony
The twisted beast he laughs, he draws his arrow back
His sights on anyone exposing of their flesh
He impales their hearts with ease
And shrugs their piercing screams
Pity is they'll never die
They'll suffer here eternally
Imagine a place where every horror comes to life
Where every torture is real and time stands still
Eight fiery steps and we're closer to the end
In a cold and timeless grave buried head first in sh!t
Praying all the while for a quick & painless death
Scratching furiously at scabbed and oozing wounds
Lucifer ... angel of light
Cast below god of ice
Ruling hell unholy trinity
The traitors freeze for all eternity
Lucifer ... betrayer of god
Tormentor ruthless and cold
Judas' screaming here in agony
The traitors freeze for all eternityZelkiiro, now that's more like it.
I admit I've never read that before, but am impressed with your choice. I'm not making much comment except to say at least that's a compelling and challenging one, as I requested, and I actually hope it catches the interest of some others for the sake of challenging them to think about good vs. evil and about eternity.
- Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
I'm not gonna be specific about this, since it's a kinda personal issue, but I want to thank God today for answering my prayers about something hugely important to me and my family! Something I had been petitioning Him for several years about. It's all in His timing. Thank You Lord!
“Forget not all His benefits.”
- Psa_103:2
God pays attention to His children. Imagine one of your sons or daughters come to your house and rings the doorbell. Do you let them in or lock them out? God will not lock His Children out but will always let them in. His ears are attent to our cries and His arms are not short that they cannot reach us.
Praise God for answered prayers. Good news is hard to find these days, Sis. Thanks for sharing it.
- Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
Anybody wanna hear a funny one?
Sometime ago we bought a car at a buy-here-pay-here lot. I went in to make a payment and there was a woman at the desk that I hadn't met. As she looked the account up on the computer, I tried to make friendly conversation. I noticed she had on a t-shirt that said "I'm Too Blessed To Be Stressed". I smiled and said I liked her shirt and something about how, yes, God had blessed me too and how wonderful He is. She kinda squirmed in her seat, glanced at me, and mumbled something about yeah her life wasn't bad and she always tried to think positive.............and then it occurred to me as she pulled at her shirt...........that her interpretation of being "blessed" was in relation to the size of her chest; had nothing to do with God, to her! I said oh okay and smiled, but it was a rather awkward moment. Shoot, I hadn't been thinking about her bosom size, but did finally realize that I am considerably less "blessed" in that department than her! LOL. - Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
I would like to ask any Christians who might see this their opinion on renewing marriage vows. I've always kinda thought that it's like saying the first time wasn't valid, even though I do have Christian friends who've renewed their vows. And I can understand if a couple was married at City Hall or elsewhere without their Pastor or family being there, etc. and they want to celebrate again with a bigger wedding, or even maybe that they weren't Christians when they got married but now want to renew vows in honor of Christ, etc.
I'm just curious, interested in whether anyone has opinions on this, and if anyone's done it or observed friends who've done so, and whether it has had a positive or a negative effect on their marriage. Ya don't have to give personal details or anything if you don't wanna. Just looking for opinions. I didn't make a separate thread for this because even though nonChristians, I'm sure, would have experienced and good input on this, I just really am interested in how other Bible-believing Christians view this. Thanks!Hello Brenda.
This is something I have never really given a thought to, but now that "I do", I see no issue with it.
I am guessing your concern is that perhaps redoing the vow somehow implies the first was not sincere, or was broken and needs refreshing. I would simply word the "vows" to indicate what they really are; a reaffirmation of your love and commitment to your spouse in front of God and your friends and family, (not a new promise).
How many times do you tell those close to you, (or God), "I love you"? Does that imply you weren't sincere when previously telling them? I would view it like that. You are neither undermining or reinforcing the original commitment. You are simply expressing your love and joy by reiterating your dedication to one another. It is just a celebration, and a worthy one indeed.
- Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
We used to sing this old song in Church. It always got to my heart. I was watching a Billy Graham classic a while ago, and it reminded me of this since they usually play this during the altar call at the end....
Just as I Am
Text: Charlotte Elliott, 1789-1871
Music: William B. Bradbury, 1816-1868
1. Just as I am, without one plea,
but that thy blood was shed for me,
and that thou bidst me come to thee,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come.
2. Just as I am, and waiting not
to rid my soul of one dark blot,
to thee whose blood can cleanse each spot,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come.
3. Just as I am, though tossed about
with many a conflict, many a doubt,
fightings and fears within, without,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come.
4. Just as I am, poor, wretched, blind;
sight, riches, healing of the mind,
yea, all I need in thee to find,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come.
5. Just as I am, thou wilt receive,
wilt welcome, pardon, cleanse, relieve;
because thy promise I believe,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come.
6. Just as I am, thy love unknown
hath broken every barrier down;
now, to be thine, yea thine alone,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come. - SirDentposted 10 years ago0
Adoption
“Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God.”
- 1Jo_3:1,1Jo_3:2
My mom had no choice in giving birth to me. I was conceived and then I was born. She is my mother and I am her son and nothing can change that. If she had decided to adopt other children, they would then be chosen by her.
We are chosen of God and adopted into the family of God. Because of being chosen, we are now called sons and daughters of God.
My friend, if you have not decided to give your life to God, please do so now for salvation has come to you this day. Please accept the offer of God to adopt you into His family. Here to further prove that Christians lack critical amounts of brain cells:
Clearly cyberpunk, a subgenre of sci-fi writing that focuses on the dangers of runaway technological advance under the rule of a corporate dictatorship, is the work of The Devil. Clearly.
Clearly.
Clearly.Clearly?!
How "clearly"?
haha. I'm looking for my brain cells that you seem to think are missing.
Well, I dunno who embellished that list of don'ts, but I do agree with most of them. A couple of 'em I don't know what they are. lol. But along with all the obvious ones, I'm especially glad you pointed out Harry Potter and the Twilight films. Both of those are deception wrapped up in a "family-oriented" label.......
Oops.......wow....I found 'em! Turns out they were here all along. Fie on those people who accuse Christians of stupidity. They usually find out that we're not so dumb after all........just takes 'em a while to realize it. Maybe their own lack of brain cells or their unwillingness to even look for them.
- SirDentposted 10 years ago0
Trying to Outrun God
“But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the Lord, and went down to Joppa.”
- Jon_1:3
Have you ever run from the Lord? If so, did you outrun Him? Jonah ran from the Lord and wanted nothing to do with the task that God set before him. He was unable to outrun God. God knew where Jonah was and where he was going. He was going in the opposite direction that he was directed to go.
God could have just let him go but His love for Jonah was great and he went after him to put him back on the right track. There are times in our walks that we may go against the Word that God gives us and He pursues us to set us back on the right path. We may run out of fear of what might happen or out of our hatred for what we are asked to do.
We must hold to the scripture, "2Co_9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: " God will not lead us to do something that He will not see us through to the end if we obey His voice.Fun Fact: Based on all context clues we can gleam from historical writings, Tarshish was actually the southern Spanish city of Tartessos. Tartessos was known for its advanced metalworking, concentric circle-based layout, and its many shrines and temples.
You know what other great city was known for these things and was possibly located in southern Spain? Atlantis.
- SirDentposted 10 years ago0
Showers of Blessings
“I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing.” - Eze_34:26 There is a season for every purpose. God created the seasons and separated them all for a reason.
We know that when spring comes, it is a time for planting. New life will begin during spring and the rain that comes in spring waters the seeds that grow and bring life. The life of a believer is no different. God sends the rain when it is needed.
If we have stayed in one place for too long, God will send something to us to make us move. Sometimes he will go to extreme measures to get us where we need to be, but in the end, the rain is showers of blessings. - SirDentposted 10 years ago0
Take God at His Word
“He hath said.” - Heb_13:5 Lately my Pastor says, "Why not take God at His Word?" during a sermon. I agree that we should always take God at His word. if God speaks it, I want to believe it.
Too many times in our lives we see that God has spoken but we refuse to believe it. We want things done our way. We shake our fist at God and go our own way. During times like this God will allow us to go our own way, just as the father allowed the prodigal son to leave. We use up what we had coming to us by living riotously and in sin. God will allow us to come back to Him once we come to our own selves first. Don't you think it is time to come back to God?
You have been away long enough now. Do not stay away any longer. Believe what God said because He is true. He does not let you down like men do. He is not a man that He should lie. - Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."
(John 10:1) - Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, 'Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.'"
(Matthew 4: 17) - SirDentposted 10 years ago0
To God be the Glory
“To him be glory both now and forever.”
- 2Pe_3:18
In the end, God will get the glory whether we believe in Him or not. Everything that works, works because of God. There is nothing that goes on that God does not know about.
We may as well join with Him to honor and magnify Him. For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Salvation is just a prayer away. That is how close it is to you. The time is now for now has the day of salvation come to you. - SirDentposted 10 years ago0
The Well
“Isaac dwelt by the well Lahai-roi.”
- Gen_25:11
I looked up Lahi-roi in the Hebrew dictionary. This is what it says, "H883
be'e?r la?chay ro?'??y
BDB Definition:
Beer-lahai-roi = “well of the Living One seeing me”
1) a well west of Kadesh, south of Israel"
The living well is the one we should dwell at. Jesus spoke of rivers of living water flowing from those who believe in Him. (Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. )
We need these living waters because we do not need to eat or drink death. Jesus conquered death and is alive forevermore.
There is a song by Casting Crowns titled The Well. The message of the song is pretty simple to understand. "Leave it all behind and come to the well."
Let's leave the past in the past where it belongs and press toward the mark as Paul did. - SirDentposted 10 years ago0
I Have Sinned
“Father, I have sinned.” - Luk_15:18
The prodigal son had taken all that was coming to him and left his father's house. After using up all his money fulfilling the lusts of the flesh and ending up broke in the swine pit, he came to himself and decided to go home to his father. He made a confession before his father stating that he had sinned.
When we come to God we must do likewise. We must confess our sins before Him. The Bible states that if we are faithful to confess our sins, God is faithful and just to for give them. Confession is something required on our part.And now we interrupt this dull, tepid thread with something actually worth my time:
The Slow Death - The Prodigal SonLuke 15:18 said that when he came to himself he decided that this is what he would do..
But verse 20 says
When his father saw him, and was moved to compassion and fell on his neck and kissed him.
With verse 20, it details that his father welcomed him back and kissed him before he even opened his mouth. The father did not require that he confessed anything before he would accept him back.
So This raises the question... Given this parable, is confession truly necessary before we can be welcomed back in? Or will God welcome us back before we can even open our mouths?Excellent point Deepes. If we were to apply the evangelical gospel we would have the prodigal son saying a sinner's prayer first of all and jumping through a set of prerequisite set of hoops before the forgiveness is granted.
Verse 15 only addresses what the son DECIDED he would do when he got home
Verse 20 states what ACTUALLY happened when he got home.. His father welcomed him back before he could even repent..
And don't even get me started on the older brotherVesre 20 states that the father did have compassion on him and kissed him, but verse 21 says he confessed. (Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. ) Verse 22 states that the father then said to his servants to bring the best robe and give to him, put a ring on his finger and shoes on his fett. ( Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: )
He was clothed and accepted after he confessed and repented. This is typical of a back slider coming back to God. Realization that a person is backslidden must come to the person first, it is like you don't know you need to be saved if you don't know you are lost. Even in a backslidden condition, God will still love us and want us to come back to Him, but confession must be made before God.But the verses said that this is what the prodigal did.. It didn't say that the father required it of him. The father saw him and was so overcome with joy and compassion that he hugged him before calling for the robe.. That the son confessed any sins is incidental, and as such, irrelevant. It could be taken (considering verse 20) That the father would have called for the robe and shoes regardless BECAUSE he had compassion for his son and was overjoyed at seeing his son return, otherwise he would have demanded the apology and repentance before even hugging him.. It is the compassion and love for the son that would have had the father call for the shoes and robe regardless, not the confession.Looking at the ministry of Christ. He had compassion for all people and in that compassion he helped them regardless of if they believed in who he was or not. His death on the cross was done out of love and compassion for ALL of us in our sins. His words were "Forgive them, Father. they know not what they do".. He didn't say "Only forgive those who believe in who I am"..
Though verse 21 is important in that you should feel remorse when you go astray, it is incidental because the forgiveness was with the father regardless of the confession because of the compassion he felt for the son.. The only one that was angry and demanded anything was the Older brother and even then the FINAL word belonged to the father. SelahThis is an exercise in how the unconscious mind works to ensure it gets what it wants without the conscious minds being aware of it's trickery. For a moment set aside the scripture and look at the psychology.
IT really depends on which perspective you look at the scripture. A lot of Christians (whether they realize it or not) Look at it from the eyes of the elder brother. They are the ones that are upset at the idea that the prodigal son would be welcomed back home after leaving without fulfilling any specific requirement. They feel this way because they are the ones that feel that since they stayed close to the father that they are the only ones that should be entitled to the inheritance and the gifts. (NOTE- I am not accusing anyone here directly of engaging in this behavior)
There is also the perspective of the prodigal son (Which is where a lot of other Christians are looking from the perspective of) They feel they have hit rock boddom and are lowly sinners and must confess how terrible they are and unworthy of forgiveness (NOTE- Again no specific accusations here)..
There is also the perspective of the Father who loves his son so much that upon sight he fell upon him and kissed him out of compassion and love..
The real lesson here is that no matter what the prodigal did or what the elder brother says, the final decision belongs to the FATHER and the FATHER alone.You didn't look at it as an exercise in psychology?
Setting the scripture aside... why would someone set up a version of God that allows him to continue to sin (do bad things) and still feel good about himself?
His subconscious will not allow him to see what's really going on because it knows it will lose control to the ego. The subconscious has invented a scenario that gives both the superego and the ID what it wants and the ego is unaware of the trickery. He is guilt free to do whatever he wishes. Just like Beth.
Even in reading my response, there is more than one psychology here. There are those who will happily hold that it doesn't matterwhat they do they know they will be forgiven and they are the only ones because they are closer to God than anyone else)
Then there are the "low self esteemers" Who feel that they are unworthy and so wretched that they need God
Then there are those who really know that such things are out of their hands.
Ultimately, It's about governing yourself and having the morals and ethics to do the right thing because it is the right thing to do and feeling remorse for mistakes made that hurt others.. After all, whatever happens (if something does happen) is out of our control anyway so we have to do the best that we can while we are here.Your ego is alive and kickin' that's why you understand why we must do the right thing, while others have convinced themselves that they don't need to be good to be good. So talking scripture will not help them become aware of what's going on in their own minds as they have convinced themselves that character flaws and (sin) is irrelevant. Hitler was convinced he was doing the right thing, allowing himself and others to commit horrid acts and still thinking he was a righteous person. The subconscious doesn't care about others and does what it has to to get what it wants while convincing the ego that all is good.
Alive.. Trying to entertain myself in the forums.. What do you think of what I said?
Hi woman. I know you weren't talkin' to me, but I wanted to say hi anyway, and
Hey, you stole my line! haha just kidding. I'm sure my Dad ain't the only person who said that phrase "alive an' kickin'"!
Looks like there's been some interesting discussion on here. I missed it, but will catch up later. I've been canning tomato juice and made my first batch ever of homemade apple jelly (had to try to use up all the apples hubby picked so they don't go to waste)..............and my hands and arms are killin' me; I overdid it I can tell. Bummer. It stinks to not be able to do the things I used to do..........but my jelly actually jelled. hahha it's a wonder.Hi!
Good to see you! Now that you've stored that abundant harvest, give yourself the time to rest and recover so that you can enjoy the fruits of your labor.
You're absolutely right abiut the discussion here. It's very interesting! That's why I keep checking into it.
Peace, dear sister.
Mar 5:33 But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.
Have you ever noticed that the woman who had the issue of blood confessed everything to Jesus? You are right in saying it is ultimately up to God to forgive but confession is made first. Romans 10:9 and 10 state that confession is made unto salvation and belief in Jesus is made unto righteousness. (Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. )
Dare I ask, "What part of the Bible do we throw away?" Jesus even said it is better for a man to have never known God that for a man to have known God and went astray.
I also recall King David repenting over sleeping with Bathsheba. Nathan mentioned that David despised God's statutes.
When a person goes back out into the world, they are despising what God has done and given them. Confession of sins must be made in order to get back in the grace of God.Was that before or after she was healed?
The whole story was that she knew that all she had to do was touch him and she would be healed. Look at verse 34, he said Thy faith has made thee whole and be whole of thy plague.. That had nothing to do with her sin. She had an issue of blood and knew that all she had to do was touch his garment and she would be healrd. She touched him and was healed before he asked who touched him.. Either way it goes, she did not have to confess anything to him in order to be healed. She was healed then when he asked about it she told him it was her. No confession required here either because healing came BEFORE confession.. Justy like in the story of the prodigal the compassion came BEFORE the confession of sin.Even the thief on the cross asked to be remembered. Jesus responded "today you will be with me in paradise. No confession or baptism required.
This is the confession of faith, not sins. This is something separate than what we were initially discussing with the story of the prodigal
We are never outside of the grace of God. When Christ dies, Even the bible says that Christ died for all sins, not just the sins of those who confess of them..You and I can go back and forth on this one (which the Bible teaches that we are not really supposed to do). But for the verses in the Bible that speak of repentance and confession, there are verses that speak of healing and of forgiveness before confession is done. You pulled some verses out to illustrate your point (and I understand and respect that), but I respond with the whole scripture in context. Remember that a text taken out of context becomes a pretext. You have to look at some scriptures as a whole in order to get the idea of a specific verse.
Tell me, why is the God you believe in so incredible needy as to only care about our belief in him and care not about our character?
Is that the God you need so as to cover up and dismiss your personal character flaws? Is your mind willing to cast judgment on others in order to continue along with what you know are sinful ways, but is not willing to stop so you invent a way of having both sinful ways and an eternal life?
What did the prodigal son, the woman with the issue, and the thief on the cross all have in common?
They all recognized their need, who could resolve it, and they reached out to get it resolved. The act of reaching out in need, and through the faith exhibited by doing so, acknowledging the power they were reaching out to was sufficient to provide their remedy, was an act of repentance and submission to that authority.
This is a profound statement, but this statement comes as more of a self-realization rather than an actual verbal expression. The woman didn't have to ask to touch Christ and get healing. She just knew on her own. The thief on the cross didn't have to ask for forgiveness or repentance. He just told Christ he knew who Christ was. The prodigal didn't have to say anything to his father. His father saw him and had compassion..
If you put it in these terms, you can see that there is a self accountability and understanding present.
One issue is that there are some Denominations that basically present the bible as stating that an outward expression has to be made in order to be forgiven. This is not the case.. God judges what's in a man's heart as well. You can verbally repent all you want to, but if your heart isn't in it then you are just doing lip service. This is where some of the true difference is. We have gotten so caught up in telling others what is necessary that we simply do not take the time to simply let our actions speak of our faith. The term "actions speak louder than words" es extra evident when our behavior isn't reflecting Christ like our wordsDeepes, in short, I agree with what you've said throughout the majority of this discussion. Bberean, recognizing a need and reaching out to one who can fill it isn't necessarily a willing submission to the need filler's authority. It's really nothing more than a survival instinct. A human being does not naturally submit to anything.
Actually, Mo, Humans do submit naturally. The definition of submit means more than "to surrender or give up". It also means "to come under the influence of another and "to offer for consideration. so by definition, humans submit on a daily basis. We submit applications, we submit homework, we submit timesheets. Asking others for advice is an act of submission because we are coming under the influence of that person's wisdom. There are several ways that humans submit daily.
Aha ... I've read your submission hub. And I almost agree completely, except that inherently submitting to any human authority (or to the authority of another sentient being) is not our first biological instinct. Does that make senesse? While we may do it willingly, we do not necessarily do it without conscious thought (naturally).
Some people do it because they have only learned one definition of submit (which is the one synonymous with obedience). This is why it becomes a curse word to some.. But they may do it willingly but they are not aware of what exactly they are doing in context to the action itself
I gotta redo that one. I have new info so I'm gonna update it soonLike you say, it's the inadequate understanding of submit that makes it an unpopular word. I guess it all boils down to how one looks at life in general. I see a place for myself in a circle of lufe and existence as opposed to seeing myself on a particular rung in a ladder of heirarchy.
*life
I agree. I live life the best I can in my place in the ecosystem.In all due respect. Do you ever think about an after life or do you live only for this life on planet earth? What do you think happens to you when you die? Would you want to know the truth or just come up with a truth on your own accord and hope it is true. In Sincerity, Skye
No afterlife has ever proven true, so why should anyone worry about it? The only life I know that I have is this one, so I make an impact to make a positive difference wherever possible and leave this world and the people that I know and love better off and enriched because I was here. When I'm gone, I'm gone. I wad not afraid before I was born. I was not in pain or lonely. There is no justifiable reason to assume otherwise after I'm gone, despite Christian attempts to coerce me into belief out of fear of something they can neither prove or demonstrate that was adopted and revised from earlier pagan traditions.
Incidentally, the person you are responding to (deepes) IS a Christian, which you don't seem to be aware of.Apparently the fact that I do not worry about the afterlife and am not afraid of a place that does not exist as tome envision it (Hell) makes me less of a Christian. Just ask some of the Christians here
She doesn't have to ask.
What it makes you is a person (I dunno if you're a Christian or not, that's your choice)...........what it makes you is a person who doesn't believe the Bible! So.......in effect, if that makes you not a Christian, then it is what it is.
I'm not sure there is such a thing as being more or less of a Christian! One either is or they aren't. One is either born again or they aren't. Jesus said we must be born again to enter heaven, and His word speaks about and warns us about the lake of fire ("hell") also. He said REPENT and follow Him. If there was no hell, no place of punishment for our sins, there would be no need to repent, would there?
Of course it is the learned and experienced opinion of me and other Christians that a Christian DOES believe what the Holy Bible says!
I have a deep respect for your character, Deepes Mind! But I don't quite get the issue here as to why you'd play this game (it looks like a game to me) about what a Christian believes and how they're supposed to relate to the rest of the world, especially lost souls! We are supposed to be WARNING people about dying without repenting of their sins! Why would anyone want to claim to be a Christian and yet refuse to go by the Book that Christians use, the written word of God Himself?deepes in all due respect less of a Christian? He loves us all the same. Jesus loves sinners. He came to full fill the law and take away the sins of the world for those that would believe in Him. (John 3:16) Jesus will not make any come to Him by twisting arms.His word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. It has not changed. Heaven and Hell are real places. A Christian knows this truth. No one goes to the Father except though me. (Jesus Christ) There is a place for those who choose to not believe in the Lord Jesus, they will be judged for their sins. (Hell) They choose sin over Jesus Christ the Savior, who died for us!! We Christians are made righteous and forgiven our sin because of what Jesus did for us we believe in Him and His word. (Heaven) There is no in between Christian in Gods Word. Either you believe in Jesus Christ who died for us or you do not. In all due respect with no harsh feelings. I pray you find the truth dearest deepes. It is written in the Word. Seek and you shall find. Matthew 6:32
I do believe in the bible. I am well versed in what the word says. And one thing that the word absolutely says is that God will be the final judge.. As far as where one ends up, We can "warn" them about things all we want to, but there is a fine line between warning and threatening as well as a fine line between warning and condemnation. Some spend so much time in the condemnation line, (but hide it as a warning ) that they are not taking their own actions into account. It is up to us to tell them about what the bible says in an effort to get them to make sure that their actions line up with the Word, but it is not up to us to condemn their actions, especially when our own actions can possibly be out of line (Matthew 7:1-5)
Apparently, according to some of our brothers and sisters in Christ, I must not be even though I follow what I believe of the Bible as well as follow the example that Christ set out especially when it comes to not passing judgment on others. The fact that I approach the atheists and others with respect to whatever they believe or not while still professing my beliefs makes me a target of believers that feel that nonbelievers aren't worthy of respect.
Here is where there is a difference.. If you read the earlier versions (Pre-KJV) of the bible, You will not see the word Hell mentioned anywhere. IT does speak of a lake of fire where apostate Israelites (Yes, Even God's chosen people) sacrificed their children by fire (In other words, they killed them). The greek bible (one of the original translations of the bible) calls this place Gehenna. So the Torment is not lasting.. They were simply killed.. Now if you wish to continue this research as well, you might also want to look up Sheol, which is translated in Hebrew (another original translation) as "Grave" or place of the dead where all people go (regardless of if they believe or not). It was King James (in an effort to instill fear into his people in order to exert control over them) that combined these two places and called it Hell. So, realistically (according to the original translations of the Bible) There is no place of eternal punishment or eternal torment. There is simply a place where the dead go where they are cut off from God eternally. With this in mind, This place (or "Hell" if you prefer to call it) will be a place for both apostate believers as well as those believers who reject their religion (not atheists, people who believe in God yet reject his authority)
He said REPENT and follow Him. If there was no hell, no place of punishment for our sins, there would be no need to repent, would there?
I couldn't agree more. I believe what the Bible says. I just happen to do what some others have not done: I not only have read more than just the scriptures that a religious leader told me. I read the whole Bible. I also have read versions that pre-date the KJV and have gotten even more of an understanding of the word.
And I for yours and those of my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, Brenda. Your passion for the word is awesome (to say the least) and I applaud your efforts and work here in the forums.
First of all, I am not playing a game at all, Brenda. I discuss what a Christian believes because I am a Christian ,and, correct me if I'm wrong, but we are called to share our beliefs with others, are we not? As far as relating to lost souls, Let's look at the word lost. When you lose something, do you stand in one place and call out to it? Better yet, since we are talking about people, When a child is lost, do you stand on your porch calling out to that child and telling them what could happen (from where you are standing) if they don't come home or do you go out and search for them and try to find where they may have gotten lost and try to bring them back? If you would do the former, I have no idea what else I could say to convince you that I am doing God's work. But if you would do the latter, then why should it be any different with a lost soul that may have strayed too far from home and lost their way? IMO, We do them a disservice when we don't reach out to them with the love of Christ. If you look in the bible, you will see examples of where he physically went into bad places to bring his disciples out as well as other people. He even went down into sheol itself to bring someone back. As Christians, we are supposed to be following his example, are we not? You have expressed the opinion that I do a lot of ear tickling. Yes, I tell them about the possibility of being separated from God for eternity as well as teach them about repentance. The funny thing about it is that most of the people I speak to already know what repentance is and by definition they do repent by showing remorse for the wrongs they do. God is going to judge us all by our fruits, our faith, our works, and our hearts. I cannot and will not speak for God as to who will and will not get in because I am subject to that same judgment
This statement appears to imply once again that I refuse to go by the Bible. I assure you that I do go by the bible in my dealings with others (believers and nonbelievers alike). There are several books on how we are to treat others and how our actions are supposed to reflect the love and ministry of Christ. It is not only about warning them about the judgment and wrath of God. IMO, a lot of Christians spend more time working within the latter but not reflecting the former (Which is where we get our title from)
I pray that this dialogue gives you a better understanding of how I feel that I am acting as a Christian. We are both acting as we should, just in different ways
In all due respect, Praise God, deepes is a Christian. I asked about the after life and what he thought. If he is a Christian he will not be offended and he knows about heaven and hell and after life. He knows the truth.
I am not going to force any words on you or try to get you to believe. You seem to have the answer you want to hold onto. Faith is believing in what you do not see. It must take allot of faith to believe in no after life? So say 80 years at best on the planet and it is over, poof. Seems like life would be futile if there was no hope for a future. So in life what is your goal if I may ask? Is it to serve your brother and be remembered? Is it to hurry and do everything you want too because this is it? If you get sick that is the luck of the draw? What if you get sick and told you are going to die soon, science has no answer to what ails you. That is it? That would be so sad. Nothing to look forward too. Just my thoughts in all due respect. Bless you and best wishes for a happy and successful life. I hope you get all you want. One thing is for sure we agree on. We do not take anything tangible with us, when we go. SkyeI understand what faith is. By your definition, however, would you say that none of the apostles had faith - because they supposedly saw, met and experienced Jesus in person? What you don't seem to understand is the difference between faith - and the absence of faith. You don't need to have any faith to NOT believe something. Lets put this in other terms that might make more sense. Do you consider yourself having faith to believe that Islam is not true? Do you have faith that Hinduism isn't correct, or any Pagan faith? No. You don't have faith that Santa Clause isn't real. Do you have FAITH in gravity, or do you know that it's true because it has been proven? I was a Christian once, and a missionary. There is, however, no PROOF that Christianity is true. There is ZERO testable, observable evidence for any proposed religion. You have FAITH in Christianity and the afterlife that it posits because you either a) want it to be true or b) fear that it is.
My goal? To realize that this life is not a practice run, and it's the only life that I'm guaranteed to get. That means that things I do with this life have to matter and make a positive difference in the world, or I will have lost my one chance. I don't just look at this life as a ho-hum existence because I believe that I was promised an eternity in a magical wonderland or fear eternal torture if I refuse to accept a belief without proof When I die, I die - but I will live on in the minds and memories of those I knew and loved. That's more than enough.
My afterlife is in God's hands. That's all I think about regarding the afterlife. Outside of this, I just do the best I can in this life. If one spends most of their time in worrying about what's going to happen in the future instead of in the present building and working toward that desirable future, they miss on the opportunities in this life to secure that next life.. Same goes for those who spend more of their time focusing on what other people are doing with their life instead of staring in the mirror and focusing on their own deeds.
God will decide what will happen to me when I die. No need for me to think about it.
I already know the truth. The truth is is that God will make the final judgment when I die. No need to hope that is true. So with this knowledge, I have no need in stressing over the future or what happens when I die. God is already there and will handle that. In the meantime, I have to worry about doing good here on Earth for myself and my fellow man because it is good to do. I cannot worry about a reward or a punishment because even the bible says that works alone cannot get me into the kingdom.
As a Christian, I kinda feel sorry for my brothers and sisters that are losing so much sleep over worrying about things they ultimately have no control over as well as trying to instill that fear into others that they are missing on a lot of experiences and opportunities to do good in this life.. Stop and smell the flowers and enjoy the things of this earth that we are supposed to be taking care of.
I appreciate the respect offered and I offer you the same respect and Christian love.. Along with a question of my own. Do you have an answer for your own questions?
No, it is not "natural." This is the point. Christ paid for the sins of all, but in each case cited, folks recognized their condition, their need, the power to have it resolved, and received because of their faith in the one providing. There are those who have tried to say you don't even have to acknowledge your need, or who has the power to fulfill that need, to receive the benefit. Deepes was mentioning verbal acknowledgement, but the Holy Spirit doesn't need the words to read the heart, and I think that was his point. SirDent was speaking of repentance being necessary and indeed, recognizing your need means you agree with God regarding your lack and accept His remedy, so in short, you do repent, so SirDent is correct also.
- SirDentposted 10 years ago0
God is Always There
“I will never leave thee.”
- Heb_13:5
God never left anyone holding the bag. He never left anyone when the going got tough. In fact, He never left anyone at all. Those who are distant from God are the ones who left Him. We walk away from Him even as He calls out to us trying to get us to listen and heed His word.
This shows the faithfulness of God. Even as we are unfaithful and go after strange gods, God still reaches out to us. Let us decide to be faithful servants and take God at His Word. Let us walk in faith, doing those things that God has commended unto us to do. The reward is worth all that we go through. - Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
skye2day!
Lady, it's good to see ya!
I see you're fighting the good fight too; I love your courage and your steadfastness; be encouraged, Sister; we gotta spread the message of Truth whether it's popular or not.Brenda Blessings sister. Yes indeed precious one. I do not trudge the forum often. Clanging cymbals. lol. I felt so led today when I saw the post on notifications. I am not ashamed of the Gospel, girl. Awesome to see you. I admire your faith and God has you just where He needs you. I love you girl. You oh precious child of God. Skye
Thank you. You always seem to show up when I need your encouragement the most. It's a God thing, ain't it?! haha; yes I believe you were led! Love you too sweet Sister! I pray for your continued Blessing in your life and I hope that I encourage you as well. God is good, praise His Holy name!!
- Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
I do know some Christians who think that perhaps the lake of fire will eventually burn up the people who go there, even though the fire itself is eternal............."hell" was intended, of course, for the devil and the other fallen angels. So......even if that's true (I disagree with it, because the Bible says "the worm dieth not....) but.....even if that's true, what Christian person would NOT warn his fellow man about even going to that horrible place for even one second?? For the Bible also says that all liars, etc.........will have their place in the fire that burneth forever..
A person who doesn't believe in redundancy? A person who doesn't believe they know more than others of their own faith? A person who doesn't believe that Jesus needs a bludgeon, that his words are quite good enough without a sinners interpretation added in? A person who doesn't want to drive people away from Christ with boastful self-righteousness and sinful pride?
That's just a beginning list of people who believe the word of Christ is sufficient without adding their own personal opinions into the mix. In short, a REAL Christian. One that behaves the way a real Christian should.
Or do you disagree?What I "agree" with, Melissa, is that we are to Love all people. According to the Bible, that Love means doing the will of the Father, and since Jesus was God in the flesh, it means doing what Jesus said and what He requires. He Loves everyone, He died for you and for everyone, so that we could all avoid punishment in the lake of fire. He preached REPENT just like John the Baptist did. He didn't die just to make a show, to become famous, nor for Himself! He died for YOU. If there were no hell to avoid, there'd have been no reason for Him to die.
If that isn't Love, then there is no love.
If a Christian's warning others about hell isn't Love, then there is no lasting Love. That's not self-righteousness nor pride. As Paul said, if he "boasts", it is only in the Lord, it's about the Lord, it's about the one who has the power to send both body and soul to the lake of fire.
Honestly, Melissa, I don't rate your opinion of me nor of other real Christians as relevant if it's against the teachings of the Bible. While I do care about you as a person, I don't have to take your opinion as true judgement of me because it isn't true judgement! I go by what the Bible says overall and in context, and the context of the entire Bible is as I stated above. If I didn't care about your soul, I wouldn't even bother to respond in this type of discussion.
God Loves you.
If you want to hear the truth, then yes, come to me and I'll tell you those Truths as I've done already.
If you just want your ears tickled, if you want a watered-down version of the Bible, if you want to simply be rebellious about what the Word says, then I don't have time nor tolerance for your insinuations nor assaults.
I care about your soul. And whether or not you realize it, THAT is your essence; that is the real "you", that is who you are. And "you" are either saved or not. That's your choice to make. I hope you've either made or will make the right choice.Then I guess there is no love. An act of sacrifice can be a noble and loving thing, but not when the sacrificed demands reciprocation. Rather, Jesus!God shames and guilts those he claims to love and damns them to eternal suffering if he doesn't get his way. That's not love--that's the indignant lashing of a petulant child.
If Jesus!God truly had any love for humanity, he would have offered himself silently and anonymously, granting mankind instant free access to Heaven without any need for shame or reciprocation. Well, either that or turn back time and prevent the Fall of Man because, you know, God is supposed to be omnipotent and so time travel would be a cinch for him (assuming he's not like Yuki Nagato and doesn't already exist in all timelines simultaneously).Thank you for the offer Brenda, but if I want to hear the truth, I'll read the Bible. I find your opinions interesting but they in no way resemble Christ or his message.
I'll keep praying for your soul though, sister. I know you struggle along a rough road of understanding but I hope one day you will eventually find the truth. I'll pray for your heart to be softened to Christ's real words.
If you ever find yourself seeking the true meaning of Christianity, I'll be happy to connect you to a loving, non-judgmental fellowship in your community.
Once again, you have my prayers. I hope against hope they eventually work.
Brenda, I don't want you to misunderstand me or my methods.. It's not that I don't think that we should tell others about separation from God. It's that this shouldn't be the ONLY thing that we are teaching. Christ himself didn't just talk about hell nor spend his time condemning everyone. Look at the woman who was caught in the act of adultery. When they brought her out and wanted to stone her, they brought her before Christ and demanded it be done. Christ first addressed them saying "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Then he looked at her and simply told her to go home and don't do it anymore. He didn't condemn her nor did he allow others to condemn her. This is a lesson to us all that before we seek to focus on another's actions we must first make sure we are free of sin ourselves.
Christ hadn't died at that time. He hadn't made the ultimate sacrifice. He hadn't given the biggest challenge of all to the world yet! His words and actions were entirely good, pure, truthful, and holy, yes! But after His sacrifice, there was nothing left to prove; he proved His Love for mankind, He proved His divinity when He rose from the dead, and He, in effect, challenged us all to come to Him. There was and is no more wishy-washiness in our minds that we can claim as an excuse for not understanding Him and what He requires.
If He preached "REPENT" before He died, then that message after His death and resurrection is all the more critical and all the more available and therefore all the more serious!
Yes of course the fires of hell isn't "all" someone should preach in any given situation. But it definitely shouldn't be left out deliberately nor indirectly! It is the backbone of the message as far as the sinner's ability to come to the Lord. Because they must first recognize that they ARE sinners in need of a Savior.
Have you somehow gotten the idea that that's all I "preach"?----hellfire & brimstone?...............hmmm I don't think you've gotten the entire picture, then, or else you're going by what others like Melissa (who really really REALLY just doesn't like me, I can tell. haha.) keep accusing me of?
Whatever!
I'm not the kind of person who gets too worried about what others think of me personally as long as I'm telling them the truth about such a serious thing as eternity! And my message is the same message as Jesus's message, doesn't matter who falsely accuses me otherwise! It can be proven by the Bible.
Hmmm.......even the accusations that I'm bound to get mirror the accusations Jesus and the Apostles got. And that's not a point of pride, it's just fact. I'm not about to make any apologies for telling the Truth. I would be ashamed if I didn't tell the Truth, and I would be derelict in my duty as a Christian.
A Christian knows that they were once in the same state as sinners. We can sympathize and empathize! We live in the awe of the Lord every day, every minute, every second, and the Godly "fear" of His divinity, His perfection, that we can never attain. I'm so glad He's a good God! Otherwise, His sovreignty would overshadow His Love; but as it is He is such a Loving, merciful, understanding Lord, that it's almost indescribeable. I cannot figure out why anyone would want to NOT be with Him after they realize what He did for them.
As far as you, Deepes Mind.........if you don't warn the lost about the fires of hell, then I do think you're missing the mark of your mission. But indeed that's up to you to decide what message you carry. In Christianity, sometimes people are drawn by a calm method, but sometimes the fervency of a straight-out good ol' hellfire and brimstone teaching is what's needed. It's like sometimes a parent has to tell a child something over and over until finally a form of discipline is required for them to really get the seriousness of the situation. The Holy Spirit works in mysterious ways, indeed; He works within the hearts of all; He convicts (convinces) sinners of their sins! Some people's hearts may be harder than others. Sometimes the message can be delivered with a soft voice of authority; sometimes that message is more vocal and fervent than others, with a more fervent voice of authority. Either way, if the message is Biblical, then it's good and correct. I've heard preachers who preached in soft tones, preachers who speak in louder tones, preachers who practically holler out the word; it's all good if it's the same message that's in the Bible. I've also heard preachers who avoid talking about the lake of fire and punishment and consequences altogether. That's......leaving out the major point of the Bible; it's assuming that people aren't able to handle the Truth and make a conscious decision about their eternal future......or lack thereof....I don't know you Brenda, I neither like you nor dislike you.I believe that many things you present as facts are simply your opinions. I further believe that many of those opinions are harmful to Christianity as a whole.
As I am a Christian, I feel the need to police my own. Christianity, as you present it, is destructive, hateful, oppressive, and bigoted. It is that presentation of Christianity that is driving people away from Christ in flocks.
The fact is that is not MY Christianity. It is not the MAJORITY of Christianity either. It is just the viewpoint that gets most press because it is the loudest and most controversial. I would really like to assure people that it is a FALSE version of Christianity. Call it equal time for the majority.
It's time the hateful minority was placed in the back of the church... where it belongs. That way it can slither out quietly while the true faith takes the stage.Oh my! LOLOL!
So you're on a mission to warn people about false prophets! Oh dear. You surely have enough material to work with with your own self. We've been through this before, Melissa. My posts are backed up by Biblical passages, in context and as a whole; while yours are the ones that seek to cut down a God-fearing Christian anywhere you can find 'em. I happen to be one of the most frequent and vocal ones around here, though there are many! So I do understand that I'm the closest and easiest target for you. But be careful there. I'm not in the martyr mood today, been there, done that so many times with you.
Let's get this straight again-------the things you yourself have posted here time after time about your "denomination" and your beliefs are opposed outright to what the Bible says. So it's time for you to stop trying to ride the coattails of Christianity, and own up to what your religion really is. As it stands now, you're just an accuser of the Brethren, and you're trying to do something you're not equipped to do, in the wrong area at that! There are plenty of false prophets around. What? They're not easy targets? Too bad. Don't be chicken. God call out the real false prophets. You can do it! Or can you?...........By our fruits Brenda..by our fruits.
Your claims of Christianity are words. I see the fruits of those words.
Like I said, I'll pray for you.
I cannot fairly or accurately make that assessment of you, Brenda. I do not know you well enough to make that determination because I cannot see your behavior outside of HP. From what I've seen here, though, it appears that your persona here leans more on the "hellfire and brimstone" side of ministry.
I try to make it a habit of not judging a person based on the opinions and their interactions with others. I prefer to interact with them myself. Based on some of our interactions, I held reservations regarding you and your approach because it felt like you were condemning me for taking a different approach to Christianity because I engage others in friendship before I share the word. I believe that the gospel should be presented (all of it), but I also believe that you must also have to have someone around willing to listen to your message. It is pointless to preaching to an empty church (so to speak). Before you can reach someone, you must first fill a need. Some need to be fed, some need respect.
Is this the idea that you have of me? I'm sorry, but you have me wrong if that's the only thing you see about me (especially considering that you do not know me outside of HP
I agree with you. The key is to identify which is needed in a specific situation. We cannot apply a one size fits all principle in our approach (No I'm not accusing you of doing this). To do so would be to miss the opportunity to draw more people to Christ (even one slow step at a time)
- SirDentposted 10 years ago0
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.2 Peter 2:1-3 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
Matthew 7:15-16 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
I have seen the fruits of some of the people posting in this thread. I have recognized those that speak hate while preaching love.
- SirDentposted 10 years ago0
I would like to know one thing. All of this controversy started with one post. The link is below.
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/109430? … ost2459911
Nothing is written in that post about hell nor condemnation. It is merely a reminder that no matter how far away from God we might end up, we can always make our way back. Sometimes, we read way too much into what is said, or written in this case.
Came back to edit this. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.And then this post happened asking if confession was really necessary......
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/109430? … ost2459927
My answer is a resounding YES, we must confess. That's what the Bible says, as you know and you've posted. I dunno why some people want to question those Biblical facts!No, this controversy didn't start with your post, IMO. This conversation between Brenda and I (Which I am grateful for us having a discussion instead of a debate) was a long time coming. This discussion had nothing to do with your post. I know the primary message in the story of the prodigal son (among the sub messages). It is a compelling reminder.
Clearly Brenda and SirDent missed the most important post on that page.
It has something to do with Matthew 7:5 and vision issues.
Judgmental, very good. Sometimes we need to look in the mirror and see ourselves for what we really are. We have the right to do whatever we want, but a true follower of Christ, will be a slave to Christ.
A true follower will follow Christ. You can only be a slave to another person... or a church.
Christ wants disciples, men want slaves.I have to laugh a little at this. What exactly is a disciple? Define it according to the old dictiuonary, not a new one that has changed the definition.
Also, why did you not address the judgmental part of that comment?I didn't want to address the judgmental part because I didn't want to point out the shortcomings of a brother in Christ.
A disciple is a student. If you have another definition that includes slavery, please post it.So you judged Brenda and me, now refuse to follow through. Be careful how you judge a man for by the measure in which you judge, you will be judged. (paraphrased)
A disciple is a follower. A true follower will follow, no matter what, as if bound to the one he/she is following. It make it impossible to not do what the leader does.
Enough play for me tonight. 5 AM comes too soon.Nice definition that you created out of thin air.
Disciple originates from a Greek word originating from the name of a roman goddess. It is always associated with learning... not bondage.
Only because of perversion did discipline come to mean punishment instead of learning. That perversion was likely the result of fundamental Christianity.
Jesus didn't beat his disciples. He didn't force them into slavery either. The idea is ridiculous and not at all representative of Christ or his teachings.Pretty much. As far as I remember, Jesus never forced anyone to follow him; rather, he stated, "Those who want to abandon everything else and follow me, go right ahead. I won't stop you."
More or less.
It meant a little something different back then, as following him was akin to idol worship... or more specifically putting another God in front of God.
They kinda took things like that pretty seriously back then.
How convenient that the Nicaea Council "discovered" the whole trinity thing when persecution of non-monotheistic religions was at it's peak.
There is a difference between a follower and a slave. as you stated, a follow will follow no matter what, but a follower follows by choice. A slave is forced to follow. Christ did not call for slaves. He wants us to follow him by choice.
Good night, Brother
I have read every post. I choose not to engage most of them.
- SirDentposted 10 years ago0
Grace, Mercy and Forgiveness
“I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.”
- Isa_44:22
Imagine what it would be like if God remembered all of our transgressions. We would all be miserable wretches. We would all be lost and headed to the very hell that Satan and his angels are going to go to.
I thank God that He would love me so much that He gave His only begotten Son to me and that my transgressions are forgotten along with my sins. They have been "blotted out" by God Himself.
Thank you Jesus for the gift of grace and mercy. Today is the one-year anniversary of my wife's passing, which many of you helped see me through. And although I do appreciate it, I will be taking the day off of HB.
At the risk of getting banned for self-promotion, here's a little something I did for her.
http://chrisneal.podbean.com/2013/08/28//Our thoughts and prayers are with you, Chris
Chris, I'll keep you and the kids held up in prayer today. It certainly doesn't seem that mmuch time has passed.
Chris, I'm sorry about your wife's passing. I hope you get more comforted as time goes on.
I couldn't hear the audio because my speakers stopped working a while back, but I imagine it was beautiful!Thank you. It meant a lot to me, although I have no idea if anyone else liked it.
Fair, take some time.
Thanks for the audio. Loved it.
I'm sending all my best thoughts at this very moment. I wish you and your children all the best.
- SirDentposted 10 years ago0
In Him We Live
“In Him we live and move and have our being.” (Act_17:28)
Where would we be without Jesus? In Him we live, breathe, move, work, and sleep. Without Him we are dead men walking. Should we not give thanks to the one who gave us life?
Let us glorify the name of the Lord throughout this day. Let His praise be continually upon our lips.Blessings dear and precious sister. Thank you for a lovely devotion to start the day. I know where I was prior to knowing Jesus. Not a pretty picture. I was in the mud pit and slowly sinking. I was about up to my neck in sin and pain. The Lord reached to me and I said yes to Jesus. Praise God. Life began that day for me. I wrote tread waters because of a post I read. I know we are not to promote our work at forum. I am not just sharing a thought. I love that you are at the hubs to support the cause for Christ. Keep standing on the Rock, ms.. warrior. Love you, Skye U will Phil 4:13
"I was about up to my neck in sin and pain. The Lord reached to me and I said yes to Jesus. Praise God."
YES, that's how it's done! Thank you for your testimony, perfect example & definition of becoming saved!
Love you Sister.Dear Sister. Yes that is where it starts with Jesus at the cross. One will not see without spiritual eyes. We have been given those eyes; Praise God when born again into His family. I am honored to call you sister. Keep em coming dear woman. The favor of God shines on your works girl. You never know who one day might will see because of what you have written. The truth. Well done good and faithful servant.
Hugs Galore, Skye.
This lifetime has proven to be quite special for me.
This is a time of great freedom and exploration, the kind we've rarely had in the past of humanity. Here we can do all manner of evil, or explore the deepest meanings of Truth.
I have explored religious thought starting with the Southern Baptist and found it lacking. I have looked at Scientology, Buddhism, Judaism, Kabbalah and Taoism. I have found each of these to contain elements of Truth.
And after half a century of exploration, I have come back to Christianity and found its true meaning.
I have seen many miracles and it has taken me decades to understand them. I had to remain humble about their meaning. I had to be like a lamb and forsake my false, ego-self so that I could receive the Truth of things.
The Truths Jesus tried to teach us are so simple. But so many churches make it all too complicated. Too many try to take scripture literally and condemn those who don't agree with them.
"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" (2 Corinthians 3:6 KJV).
I don't have the whole Truth, yet, but I've seen enough of it to see how so many are making a mockery of Christ's teachings.
One minister wrote on his website that Jesus didn't really mean it literally that we could do the miracles he did and even greater. He made it seem that the vast number of Christians, working together, were powerful in "faith" to do more than one lone man (Jesus) could do. But what about the dozens of disciples who performed miracles while Jesus still lived and walked among us?
I have performed miracles. I know that those still rare incidents are because I did what Jesus tried to teach us -- give up the ego self. Stop being separate. Use love, and that includes taking 100% responsibility for everything that happens to you. When you do that, you can never, ever be a victim again.
So, when you ever talk like a victim, realize that you are not taking responsibility. You are shirking your responsibility and separating yourself from God. He is pure responsibility. In order to speak His language, you also have to take responsibility.
Faith is not belief. Faith is perfect and absolute. Faith is Knowing, not imperfect believing. But faith is also from the true, spiritual self; not from ego or the body.
God created us in His image and likeness, but He is not Homo sapiens. That makes us immortal, non-physical and spiritual sources of creation. Yes, "baby gods." The child looks like the parent, just as Seth looked like Adam.
This is why Noah's Flood was strictly and only an act of Love. If you take the Bible literally, you'll never see this. God wants His children back, and they are not Homo sapiens.
In the Judas Gospel, Jesus is talking with his betrayer. In it, Judas was concerned that he would ever amount to anything (concern for ego, of which Jesus was well aware). Jesus told him that Judas would exceed them all, because he would betray the man that Christ wore.
We all need to be like Christ -- aware that we are merely and only wearing these human vessels, as he did.
We need to use only love, something I'm still learning. With love and the end of ego (the source of selfishness and separateness), we can truly awaken in Christ and start to follow him in the fullest sense of the word. This is something for which I've hungered for most of my current life. I know, even now, that I am not yet worthy, but I continue to make improvements toward that each day.Ahh........too many points to argue right now, lone77star.
What I must say here is this---------I'm definitely not a "god" even though I am a child of the Most High God! That's in the Spiritual sense, and I'm only His child because I gave my heart to Jesus the Savior.
And indeed I've never met any "gods" here on earth because there are none. And when any person tries to tell me they're a "god" I immediately am sad and rather taken aback that anyone has the audacity to say they're a "god". I'm over half a century old, and I stopped being tempted to worship any man some years ago.
And the Bible (the true Bible, not the fake "Gospel of Judas")..........tells us that Jesus said He "lost" one of the disciples. He meant Judas. And God knew Judas's heart from the beginning, knew who would betray Jesus. This new idea that Judas was simply doing God's will and therefore was saved is..........deceptive and false. The Lord said he (Judas) was lost. I'll take His (Jesus's) word over anybody else's. Indeed, it is His word anyway (the whole Bible, Old and New Testaments) since Jesus was God in the flesh. But we aren't Jesus and we never will be. We will never be "gods". We will always be worshippers of God (if we are born-again).
Drat. Like I said, too much room for discussion/debate, time I don't effectively have right now........."This text claiming to be an eyewitness account written decades after the event is clearly false! I will continue to rely on these other texts claiming to be eyewitness accounts written decades after the event!"
It's extraordinary claims like that which gives non-believers all the ammunition they need to show your faith is not faith at all, but something completely different.
You're giving God a bad reputation.Really? Out of this whole thread you pick THAT as the example of giving God a bad reputation?
OK then. Not the sentence I would have picked for that award, but to each our own.Yes, pick one for yourself, no problem. I don't recall giving out any awards?
I don't suppose you can back that statement up with evidence? My cousins 7 year old's bone marrow transplant was unsuccessful, nothing the doctors can do for him despite the 10 000 people praying daily from various faiths for his recovery. So while you may want to perform miracles you don't need to lie to us about it.
- SirDentposted 10 years ago0
“And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish.”
- Joh_10:28
What does eternal life mean to you? God is eternal meaning time has no effect upon Him at all. These fleshly bodies are temporal and will wither and die one day. Ths spiritual body is eternal and was always meant to be eternal. God created man in His image and likeness.
Just think about what Jesus has promised to thsoe who believe in Him. our minds cannot comprehend eternity because we are fleshly and carnal in our thinking. When it is revealed unto us., then we can see eternity for what it truly is. Let's keep our hearts open to the Word and our minds clear of the clutter that is so easily picked up these days. If we do this, we shall never perish, though we may die, yet shall we live forever and ever. - SirDentposted 10 years ago0
Listen to the Word
(Luk 10:39) And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
Wouldn't you love to sit at Jesus' feet and hear Him speak? The Words he spoke were unlike any that were spoken by the prophets before Him. Peter even said, "You have the Word of eternal life." How many times do we go to church and after the service is over, we can't even remember what the preacher spoke about?
We should be as little children even at church because the Preacher is the mouthpiece of God. We should hang on every word that comes from his mouth because he is anointed to preach the Word to us. We are so bad to sit through a service, not paying attention to what is really going on. Our minds wander and before you know it, we are in a different place than where we are sitting.
We should purpose in our hearts to listen and pay close attention to what the preacher says. After all, eternal life depends on what is being preached. Just as Peter spoke of Jesus having the words of eternal life, the Anointed Preacher also speaks words of eternal life. If we miss out on the anointed Word, we have missed out on life. Jesus came not only to give life, but to give life more abundantly. This same life is for any and everyone who will accept it and follow after Jesus.People have asked me what I want to do when I go to heaven.
I tell 'em I want to sit at the feet of Jesus and listen to His voice & hear Him tell me stories or whatever He wants to tell me. Now that will be awesomer than awesome----to be at the feet of, and hear the words of, the real Word in person!In person? With feet and a voice and stories? Good luck with that.
Well, since Jesus is alive and has a body, I don't think luck really has anything to do with it.
yes, because wanting something to be true and believing in it makes it true by default.
That's what I often think when I read many of the atheist rants on here.
If you think that what it's all about with me, you ain't been paying attention.pay attention to what? Sarcastic comments interspersed with emotional outbursts? Was there some little gem in between that I was supposed to be noticing that just proves your entire case? Must have missed it. Maybe you can start highlighting the gems so it's easier to weed out all of the crap.
I don't deny that I can get pretty sarcastic, which around here to be accused of sarcasm by anybody is the pot calling the kettle black. I'm sorry if it bugs you and for the most part I have severely restricted the use of it with you (and actually in general) and the comment which you responded to, while it was indeed sarcastic, is a pretty general comment.
Again, I have had my share of emotional outbursts here and I've learned my lesson from them. More than one, as a matter of fact. But again, to be accused of emotional outbursts around here is the pot calling the kettle black.
I have attempted to have straightforward conversations with you, and if the only things you've gotten from our exchanges have been 'sarcasm and emotional outbursts,' again I'm certainly man enough to mea culpa and dial it back (which I have) but yes, you have missed some important stuff about me.
And in my defense about the outbursts, they pretty much were clustered at the beginning of the year when I had just lost my wife. I won't say there have been none since March, but there have been fewer. And again, I've learned the lessons of those.
And as much as I've wished for and attempted to have straightforward one-on-one's with you, you don't usually engage me like that. You've accused me of 'devolving' before but I'm certainly ready, willing and able to have real conversations with people who want the same. And this is not directed at you, but if someone thinks that a 'real conversation' must necessarily end up with me saying, "how could I have been so blind? of course you're right!" then that's not a real conversation.Chris, I think you missed the point.
I tease people I like and respect. Ask my friends. Ask rad or deepes or mo. I was just picking on you. Nevermind. Bonding attempt failed. Just non sarcastic conversation. Got it.JM is mostly harmless. Cut her a little slack. Yeah she is really sarcastic and tries to be humorous with those she likes. She speaks to you with more respect than some others here (believe it or not)
JM scares the hell out of me. She makes me cry on a regular basis.
I've figured out that the only place I am safe when she turns her glare upon me is in the corner of my closet... covered with clothes... and breathing through a straw...quietly.
Luckily she's flighty, so I've never been in there more than 16 hours. I've bought adult diapers just in case, though.
*shudders*Now you told me where your hiding spot is, little girl. I'm coming for you.
Well, I did say mostly.. those times where she isn't is when the horns come out and everyone must run in terror.
Ah, yes. Sorry.
I guess I got too used to being yelled at around here.
Carry on!
Hey, Chris, Just an observation from one who has learned a little bit about JM and Rad, They like you. you can't take everything they say completely seriously.. not all of their sarcasm is intended to mock (well unless you take it personally).. But Rad and JM actually have a lot of respect for you. We understand that your year has been really rough and we are pulling for you in a major way that you heal as best as you can sooner rather than later. We understand when you are having bad days so we (mostly) try to act accordingly as much as possible, but we would do you a disservice if we handle you with kid gloves all of the time because it then will take on the tone of being patronizing, IMO and you wouldn't want to be patronized, would you? I (and some of the others) consider you a friend here on HP (if not the real world) and want this to carry over. This means we're going to joke with you and we see your sarcasm as well. But If this makes you uncomfortable, then I (at least) will keep my jokes with you to a minimum out of respect for you.
One day, I was feeling kinda rough and my buds wouldn't let up on me, putting me down every chance they got taking advantage of my situation. They could see then I was visibly upset and threw their arms over my shoulder and said, "We love you,. dude. That's why we do it."
I just need to make a few adjustments.
Thanks.We've got your back Chris. When it comes to religion you are completely wrong (lol), but that doesn't mean I respect you any less. It's never anything personal.
We understand. That's why we go as far as we can until we see that it is affecting you. The more you heal the more you'll get us
Where? He must be somewhere with air, water and food if he still has his 2000 year old body. He must be around here somewhere.
Do we get to keep our bodies when we die as well. That way we can see and hear him. Can't do that without eyes and ears.Did you actually read the Bible?
Serious question, because you know that my answers are coming out of the Bible.
My words may be hard to explain. My Jesus is real. No, not literally physical. But the Spirit is real for me. He's my Lord. The Bible tells us about the "voice" of God. So....in whatever Spiritual body, or none, all I know is that I long to be there with Him when I die.
Given that there are a finite number of words, there is also a finite number of ways they can be strung together in sentences. If Jesus limits himself to sentences of "only" 1,000 words each, he will have said everything there is to say in but a blink of the eye on your journey towards eternity.
Then what? Repeat Himself 10,000 times?Look, there's no point in thinking this stuff through like that.
Thinking it through leads to only one thing. Atheism.
- SirDentposted 10 years ago0
“The precious blood of Christ.”;[ - 1Pe_1:19
Without the shedding of blood there is no remission. Remission of what? For something to go into remission means it is reversed. The wages of sin is death. Now with remission of sins by the precious blood of Jesus, death is reversed and life is given.
Now is the accepted time, now has the day of salvation come to you. I know some are blacksliders and still some are still lost, but the same Word that keeps believers can convict the lost and the backlsider alike. That word if the blood of Jesus can cleanse you and reverse the affects that death has upon your life.It has always seemed rather strange that biological circulatory fluid is necessary for "remission". I have wondered, though, if it has to be red as is pictured in most photos. Animals other than mammals can have blue, green or even yellow blood - would that be acceptable or must it be red?
After all, there is no guarantee that Jesus had red blood as He was not human...I've always found it a bit ghastly myself.
I've seen Carrie too many times and there are entirely too many literalists floating around.
I pray that this, at least, they see as symbolic...
But you know there's gonna be/has been some zealot somewhere... *sighs*Unfortunately, symbolism has a way of reaching into reality sometimes.
I've always shuddered a bit at the whole bread and wine thing, and keep an eye on the neighbors as they return home from church. Hopefully they weren't taught the same thing I was, but you never know...
- SirDentposted 10 years ago0
“Rise up my love, my fair one, and come away.”
- Son_2:10
My Pastor has spoken many times about those who love God. One question he has asked is, "Have you ever tried to be with someone who didn't want to be with you." God calls out to those who love Him, but it seems they are no where to be found. (Lamentations 1:19 I called for my lovers, but they deceived me: my priests and mine elders gave up the ghost in the city, while they sought their meat to relieve their souls.) "Where are my lovers?" is what God is asking. They used to meet at the gate and prophesy and proclaim the goodness and mercy of God. They would state how God loves them and that they love God also.
In our daily walks, we must continually praise God and declare Him to be Lord of our lives. We need to be diligent and do not be as those that Jeremiah wrote about.
Soon, Christ will come again and say, "Rise up my love, my fair one, and come away with me, for judgment has come to the Earth." The rapture is imminent and will soon come to pass. We must be ready to meet Him or we will be left behind. - SirDentposted 10 years ago0
“These all died in faith.”
- Heb_11:13
This verse speaks of the Old Testament saints who believed God and trusted in Him. They died while still believing in the promises of God even though they did not see the promises fulfilled. My Pastor declares these saints to be members of the Faith Hall of Fame. Included is Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, etc. . .
Will you also be counted among these saints of the Most High God? All we have to do is believe God and take Him at His Word. God is not a man that He should lie. The trust is all that comes from the voice of God. He is holy and righteous and no one can take away that holiness and righteousness.
When we find ourselves doubting God, we are starting to believe a lie. Do not let the devil take the truth from you no matter what may come your way. If you are in the valley, the devil may be on the mountain top shouting at you and declaring victory over you. Always remember, the devil is a liar the Lord Jesus Christ is always victorious over him.
Jesus gave us the victory when He took our place on the cross and died the death that we deserved. Let us be thankful to Him for what He did and praise Him for His faithfulness. - SirDentposted 10 years ago0
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
(John 3:16)
The Word of God can do 2 things to non believers. It can chase them away or it can draw them in. Every person must make a conscious decision to believe in Jesus or not. One thing believers must not do is to become a stumbling block to non believers or the newly converted.
If you read the Bible, especially the New Testament with the teachings of Jesus, you will see that many received His teachings and followed Him. You will also see that many refused and became even more vile than before.
When Jesus would save someone, He would always say, "Go and sin no more." The ways of the world has crept into the Church so much so that it is hard to tell one from the other. God knows who is right and who is not. He will judge according to His own righteousness and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
Jesus died for the sins of the world. All sins are forgiven but not all are saved. The verse posted above states, "Whosoever believes in Him." Do you believe? You must believe in order to be saved. It goes on to say, "Shall not perish." What it is saying is non believers will perish.
It is time to decide right now. Salvation is at hand but might be gone even before I click to post this. No one has a promise of tomorrow or even our next breath. Brenda, did you get my email last week? Respond to it please, if you want me to send you the things we discussed. Just had a minute now, but can send it in the morning.
No, I didn't get it! My inbox is a mess, so maybe I overlooked it........
Will try to find it. If I don't respond soon, please re-send?
- Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
Precious Lord Take My Hand
Words & music by Thomas A. Dorsey
Precious Lord, take my hand
Lead me on, let me stand
I'm tired, I’m weak, I’m lone
Through the storm, through the night
Lead me on to the light
Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home
When my way grows drear precious Lord linger near
When my life is almost gone
Hear my cry, hear my call
Hold my hand lest I fall
Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home
When the darkness appears and the night draws near
And the day is past and gone
At the river I stand
Guide my feet, hold my hand
Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home
Precious Lord, take my hand
Lead me on, let me stand
I'm tired, I’m weak, Lord I’m worn
Through the storm, through the night
Lead me on to the light
Take my hand precious Lord, lead me homeOOOOOHHHHH!! One of my favorite songs.. Love Mahalia Jackson's rendition
Cool.
I haven't heard Jackson's, but this song gets to me no matter what; we always sang it in congregation at Church. I love some of all the types of Gospel, but somehow the oldies are always the best I think. Just like the "oldies" in Christianity, period, in my view. A young Pastor of ours once said he almost didn't like the song "Gimme that Old-Time Religion"................but hey it was good for our fathers, it was good for our mothers, it was good for Paul and Silas, and it's good enough for me! haha.Pull it up.. Promise you might shed a tear.. Unless I'm just a HUGE softie...LOL
I'll try to remember, as soon as my computer speakers get fixed.........right now I can't hear a sound.
That stinks. Have you tried externals? Or are they externals
No, they're internals. At least I assume. You're talkin' to a somewhat computer-illiterate person; hubby knows about everything, but has little patience with my computer. Maybe 'cause I'm the type who doesn't clean out her e-mail and goes to any ol' site I want to. I have a love/hate relationship with the computer; am about ready to defenestrate it. hahha....that's a word I learned in playing word games with my brother over the phone; it means THROW IT OUT THE WINDOW and I've thought about it a lot....
With externals, you can plug them into the headphone jack
Ok. Headphones went bad then I guess. But I still can't get volume even without the headphones; settings are all messed up or something. Thanks for trying to help. Will have to get Mr. Fixit to keep his three-week-old promise to check it out.
- Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
Got the one via Hubpages. It was in my Spam folder! I replied twice thru personal e-mail; hope you got it; I put you in my Contact list, so hopefully your reply will show up in Inbox.
- Brenda Durhamposted 10 years ago0
Hey, Deepes Mind! My husband finally heard my complaint today and fixed the problem. I can hear videos again! Yay! lol.
I did pull up one where Mahalia Jackson sings that song. Not bad. Not my favorite style of singing; too slow-moving and choppy. But not bad. The song speaks to me no matter what. I'm glad you like the song.YAAAAYYY!! I'm so glad you got it working again.. 5 points for hubby!!
on a scale of....what? Ten? Then I'll deduct a couple points extra for it taking so long and his impatient attitude! hahhaaa
But yeah I appreciated it really.
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