Christian Discussion
- SirDentposted 11 years ago
0Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
A thief will not break into a house and take the worthless junk away. He wants the best stuff there is. In our walks with Christ, we have allowed the thief to enter in and take what God has given us.
Let's hold on to the gift of God. Keep ourselves holy and acceptable to Him alone. The Bible states, "Without holiness, no man shall see God."I would much rather give attention to real people and live a life of happiness with them than spend my time wasted in superficial pursuit of pleasing an imaginary god, making others unhappy and disrespecting them by telling them they will go to hell.
I'm so often saddened by the number of my brothers and sisters in Christ who don't do just what you're speaking of. I believe in an afterlife, but I'm not there yet, and I'm fairly certain that God is much more concerned about what I'm doing in this one. He gifted me with this family, these friends. It seems to me that I have an ultimate responsibility to love and serve those people with everything I can while I can. Otherwise, what's the point of being here in the first place?
According to Sir Dent, the point to being here is to make others as miserable as he is, making sure we all know our place by the fire is assured.
I'll bring the marshmallows if you bring the chocolate.
If only all the Christians of the world would listen to ATM instead of God, how much better off we'd be.
We wouldn't have had the Crusades, Inquisitions or witch burnings, for a start.
We wouldn't have hatred against gays and lesbians.
We wouldn't have hatred against others who didn't share our understanding of the world around us, kind of like how scientists behave about those things.
We wouldn't threaten others with ancient myths and superstitions.
We would spend more time trying to solve real world problems for real people.
We wouldn't set up missionaries in foreign countries to destroy their cultures and heritage, but instead nurture them.
I could on and on and on, Beth.And those things happened b/c man listened to God? No. Those things happened b/c man has always and will always do evil and find someone else to blame it on.
God is without sin, God does not tell man to sin, God loves you even though you hate Him.Yes, I expected you call out the New True Scostman fallacy, considering it is your only defense, albeit a fallacious defense. Those folks who committed those atrocities were as much committed to their religions and gods than anyone else.
Your false assertion that man is evil is not even worth the trouble of addressing simply because it has never been shown to be true, quite the contrary, in fact.
Preachy gibberish.Those acts you described were evil.
Either man is evil.
Or God is evil.
If God is evil.
God is real.
Which is it?It's evil to hate homosexuals.
Either man is evil or the bible is evil.The Bible does not say to hate a homosexual. It preaches to love others. It tells us to hate *sin* but to love the sinner. The Bible tells us that *no one* is without sin. That means we are all the same; sinners in need of a Savior.
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13 KJV)
Right the bible doesn't say to hate them… it says to kill them. Why are you not following your bibles directions?Old testament law can only be explained so many times.
You refuse to listen. You bring up the same argument in every form you can in almost every post you post. Im not going to play this game.
I will try one more time to explain what the Bible as *a whole* teaches about sin.
Take the woman at the well.
Adultery.
The law was to stone her to death.
Jesus arrived and said, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone."
I am a sinner. You are a sinner. Every man, woman and child alive sins.
We need a savior to save us from our sin.Maybe you should focus on the Bible as a whole... actually read it. I think it would bring you great understanding. That's all Im saying.
Rad Man understands far more about the Bible than you, Beth. It is you who needs to read it and understand what is being said there.
That is a false claim, where is your evidence to support it? Either prove your claim, retract it or admit it is nothing more than an irrational, indoctrinated belief.
That wasn't an answer.
You said men weren't evil.
Men commit evil acts.
Either man acted on his own volition or man acted on God's.
If man acted on his own volition, man is evil.
If man acted on God's, then God is (by your estimation) evil.
It's one or the other.We already went through this.
The bible directs people to do evil, much like the Quran directs people to do evil things.You understanding is limited. You should read the Bible as a whole to understand what you are reading instead of just picking out verses in the OT that you feel fits your argument.
Why isn't that an answer?
Yes, religions teach and cause good people to do bad things. Some Christians here show that in spades.
No, it isn't one or the other, because no has shown your god to exist, hence He is not included in this argument. It is the Bible that causes good men to do evil things in the name of your god.
Simple, really.
Ah Beth, the hatred happens because people read the bible and take it literally. You believe the bible is the word of your God right? How then do you feel about homosexuality?
The same way I do about my own sin and every other sin. It separates us from God.
I have shared these views before.
There are friends I love very much who are gay.
They do not hold my sins against me and I don't hold their sins against them.
We just care about one another. If an opportunity come up to share a spiritual perspective with them, I do, as I would with anyone else. Otherwise, we just are who we are.Ah so you like the Pope? "who and I to judge". But judge you do when you call it a sin. You know it's wrong to hate and discriminate but it's what the bible tells you to do. Would the world be better without discrimination and hate?
I am curious of something...
How can the sex you are attracted to and acting on that attraction be consider a "sin"?
That is how God made them, so how can it be a sin if they were made that way by God...??Every man sins.
When Adam fell, every man from then on was born with a sinful nature.
Without God's help, we will all continue to sin.
Only the sacrifice of Jesus can cover that sin.
We all sin.
We all need a savior.That is not what I asked? I know the concept of everyone "sins"...
I was curious as to how attraction and acting on that attraction to the same sex can be sin, if that is how God made you?
Edit**
Is it sin to be attracted and act on that attraction to the opposite sex if that is how God made you?
Even the animal kingdom has homosexuality in it...I did answer the question. I said that man was born with a sinful nature. In other words, God did not create us to be homosexuals, He created us to love and be loved by Him. He created us to follow His commandments. We, as sinners, choose to follow the desires of our flesh over His desire for us.
So you are saying that someone who is attracted to the same sex is making a choice to be attracted to the same sex? That God made them Straight, they just choose to not be that way?
And this still doesn't answer how being gay can be considered a sin if God made someone that way...
Let me ask someone else...
Motown, ATM, Radman, Melissa....How can being gay and acting on that attraction be considered sin if God made you that way..??No I am not...
Your answer is that all men sin...Yes I understand that...
I want to know how can something that God made you with can be considered sin...
Are you saying that acting on "Lusts" of the flesh is sin...If that is the case then every single person in the world is guilty of that...Straight and gay alike..I said I did not believe God created us to sin, He created us to follow Him.
Yes, I believe acting on the lust of the flesh is something we are all guilty of, gay and straight alike.Ok.. So since God created us to follow him...And he creates some people Gay... Then them acting on that just as any other person would is not a sin...As long as they are married of course correct..?? Just as any straight couple who is married can have sex without sinning...?
This is your assertion. I have said the opposite continuously.
They have a choice on who they are attracted to??
Did you have a choice in what sex you found yourself attracted to?I am attracted to tall men. I like dark hair and stubble. If he has weathered boots and beat up jeans... If he's smart, has a dry wit... (sigh.) We all are attracted to something for some reason. God did not program my DNA to like beat up boots. My parents rode motorcycles. Not Harleys, but big street cruisers to go on vacations. There are quite a few actors I watched growing up that formed in my mind the right man... we are influenced by our surroundings, the ppl in our lives, the things we focus on, events that shape us, etc. etc.
So without saying it directly, you are saying homosexuality is taught.
Outside of your personal religious beliefs, and comments from other's own religious beliefs, what do you use for evidence to support that statement?
And since Gay couples still can't really marry...That means gays are coming from Straight homes...There were gays around long before it was being shown on TV or was as open as it is now.
So how does our enviroment determine what sex we are attracted to...Not the physical features and clothing...??
And you decribed the type of man you were attracted to...Not if you had a choice in being attracted to men or not...You went back and edited. I don't believe you asked me if I was able to control what I was attracted to until after.
I believe (from knowing myself) that if I were to have focused on women instead of men, had I not read and believed the Bible was true, from an early age, I could have been attracted to women. Anything I set my mind to and then let my mind go... I could want that thing. I have within me a great capacity to sin. I have had sexual sin in my life, just as a gay person does. I am no different. I simply didn't set my mind on women.Yes I did edit that part...a few seconds after I posted...So yes you may have not read that part until after your original reply...I am not picking on you or anything... I am asking questions to see if we can get to a root answer...
So back to your other post,
You are saying that if you hadn't read the bible at an early age and knew certain things were "wrong" and had you been exposed to a different setting.. you might would have been attracted to the same sex?
I don't get this...There are kids (under the age of 14) who find themselves attracted to the same sex...this isn't the cool thing to do in school...They still get beat up for that sort of thing...
What about the ones back in the day before we had the information highway we do today...?? How and why did they turn out Gay, they came from straight parents and "manly" things...I will speak on the ppl in my life.
My cousin is gay. Her mom, most would consider a *itch. Strong, yes, not that strong is bad, but selfish, unkind and thought highly of her own opinions. Her dad was laid back... way back. He was getting high a lot and considering the light coming from his hand as he waved it in front of his face more so than doing the things he probably should have... blurred lines.
My husbands cousin is gay. His mom was the queen of all other *itches. lol This woman was mean and controlling and critical to the point of exasperation. His dad retired to the woodshed and is still probably there today.
There are millions of kids who are abused. One might think 'I wont ever let a man touch me again.' Another might think, 'This is all I have known. It seems right.' Not that every abused child is gay or that every gay person was abused... again... just blurred lines.
It could be that a child is ignored at home and the only person they remember being kind was a person of the same sex. It could be a million things, b/c as I was trying to state earlier, there are a million things that make a straight person attracted to who they are attracted to. (Right or wrong.)
If a kid gets a hold of a porn magazine at a young age and he sees nothing but one specific kind of woman, he will most likely be attracted to that kind of woman over others his whole life.
I believe being attracted to the same sex is some kind of blurred line. Do I think they are bad ppl? No more bad than straight ppl... no worse than I. I *adore some very special ppl who are gay. I mean, I really love these specific ppl with my whole heart. I simply believe that there are reasons they are attracted to the same sex, just as there are reasons Im attracted to tall, funny men. I believe, as I have stated, that they need a savior, just as I do.OK.
I understand where you are coming from now.
You are basing your opinion from those you actually know.
And to an extent, you may be correct in your assumptions.
I am still not sure why being Gay is considered a sin...other than the bible says so...Well that would be assumption on my part, which isn't really fair, but considering what we know of God from His word... He created things with a specific plan.
So there would be the whole disobedience thing. He's really not big on that.
Then there's the pro-creation thing. Again, He had a plan, this choice nullifies that option.
If, and I know it sounds far fetched, enough ppl were to come to the conclusion that they prefer the same sex... life would actually begin to dwindle... maybe some would say gays were helping with over population.
There are many reasons, I'm sure, that God has forbid it. Again, I can think of many reasons why He forbade the sins Ive committed and they make sense to me as well.The bible says so...That is the only reason I see...
For those of us who believe the bible to be the word of God, that is more than enough.
If it weren't for the Bible, I would be making up my own rules.Probably a good idea. You could go through the bible and copy all the rules down and then pick the ones you liked. Pretty much what is done by most Christians, Muslims or any other believers, and you would probably end up with a pretty good set of rules to live by. And you wouldn't have to pretend all the others either aren't there or that Jesus changed them without ever saying a word about it.
It also would allow you to keep up with societies work in improving their rules as well instead of lagging behind by a century or so.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an … ation.html
The statistics show something different then you are describing. The statistics show a biological aspect to homosexuality.
"Several peer-reviewed studies have shown that men with older biological brothers are likelier to be gay than men with older sisters or no older siblings. The likelihood of being gay increases by about 33 percent with each additional older brother."
This is specific to biological brothers and not adopted brothers, which means there is a genetic component and not as you say simply a wanting.Im not sure what genetics has to do with it... but knowing the tendencies of boys, that's not that surprising to me.
Ok, Ive had enough for a while. See you all later.I hope it didn't make the sense I thought it did. Biologically, that study seems to make perfect sense. The biological imperative to reproduce and perpetuate our line might decrease when there are those in higher birth order already around to do it? That's how I'd interpret that. Weird. Like maybe God might have made us that way on purpose or something.
Then when things go wrong He blames us? I think God should hold HIMSELF accountable, since it was Him who created us. He should punish Himself for failing to plan correctly.
Then His plan should not have included making gay people. It's not their fault. He should punish Himself for failing.
It's absurd that God created homosexuality, then turned around and forbade it. There is something seriously bi-polar about this God.
My mom was great, my dad was great. No serious childhood tramas.
My ex- husband was an ass, but I was bi before I met him.
I just like women. No psychological damage. Sorry. I would be honest about it too. I've had the full psych work up. Absolutely no issues before I knew I was bi.I believe you. Hopefully you noted I specified that it didn't have to be a trauma, that we simply for what ever reason, focus on certain things at certain times. Short men did not beat me with sticks... that's not why I'm attracted to tall men. There are just situations or what have you that cause us to focus on one thing more than another thing.
On an interesting note, there is a gay boy at my work... 16... 17 maybe. He has latched on to me. We really like each other. I don't know why... we're silly. He reminds me of my closest friend who is a 22 year old girl I used to work with. They're so much alike it's weird. Anyway, I prayed for him while coming home tonight. He is the only person I can recall praying for from my new job. They are all sinners, but he is the one I prayed for. I'm sure it is due to him being gay, but if we are all lost without God, why did I focus on him? I don't know, maybe just because I like him... I have a heart for him... no idea, but I'm glad God put him in my life. I hope I can be a good friend for him.You probably shouldn't mentioned that you prayed for him to him. It would stress the friendship.
I know Christians, from their point of view, find that a compliment. It's really not. It's actually really offensive.
This is just an example of another way to put it. It's not an insult but just an illustration.
Let say that I believed that you were less intelligent than me. I told you I would pray for you to get smarter.
-or-
I believed that you were uglier than me, so I prayed for you to get prettier.
-or-
I believed that you were promiscuous, so I prayed for you to stop being so loose with men.
As a bi-sexual, even a bi-sexual Christian, I don't believe there's anything wrong with my sexuality for God to fix. It's a basic part of who I am and it's insulting to think that anyone would pray to God for me to NOT be who I am. I pray all the time, but I've never prayed for that. I'd appreciate it if no one else did either.
Have you ever prayed to stop being attracted to tall men? Have you ever prayed to be attracted to someone you weren't?
But I guess it doesn't matter if I convince you of the legitimacy of the reasons it is offensive. It should be enough to tell you that it is. It's actually a common complaint in my little corner of the LBGT community, where it is seen as offensive pretty much across the board. Now since you know it's offensive, why would you say it? It seems counter-productive to the love thing.
Imagine it like walking into a KKK meeting and saying that you pray that God takes makes them all African Americans. Like that, just with rainbows instead of burning crosses.I wasn't planning on telling him I mean... unless he asked.
Boy: "Beth, I want to marry into the royal family."
Beth: "Is that so?"
Boy: "Yes, then I could be a prince."
Beth: "What a good idea."
Boy: "Also, did you pray for me last night?"
Beth: "Why yes, I did. How intuitive."
Doesn't really fit into our conversations. I just prayed for him.
Human beings are the same whether they are gay, straight or sports fanatics... no one wants to feel judged. It's human nature. (He's not the first gay person Ive met. lol)So you prayed that he would marry into the royal family?
When are you going to get around to world hunger?I'm not sure about the sports fanatics - my son went through a stage of that and it was pretty intense. Barely human, he was...
And now my brother, who has consented to provide T-day breakfast for the group, has said there will be nothing between 9 and 10:30. Something about taking care of his fantasy teams.I will pray for them, but don't tell them I am praying for them.
Hah!. Well, they need it. Not me, of course, but just those around me.
Good. Would kindly spread that word around? My wife doesn't seem to quite understand it...
Ill pray for her too... but as always, keep that on the down low.
No, no! She may need prayed for, but mostly she needs to be taught that I am without fault. It would make my life run smoother.
How cruel.
I suppose I shall just have to hope that she will extend the "keep" time beyond the current 37 years. There is reason to hope, after all.Sounds like things are rocky. Try not to rock the boat.
Never rock a boat. They can tip over, spilling into the croc infested river of life. Almost like jumping into a mosh pit of Christians!
Yet, you judge him because he is gay and you confirm your judgment by praying for him.
Ive prayed for you, Ive prayed for myself. I've prayed for the girl Katie in Africa. Judge me as you will. I pray for ppl. Sue me.
That's the thing, folks who say they pray for others usually don't. They just like to say those things because it makes them feel special for lack of actually doing anything productive.
I'm curious. DO you pray for people as a way to absolve yourself of actually getting your hands dirty and do something to actually help them? Lots of people pray for other people, but numbers dwindle significantly when you ask how many of those praying people are willing to actually go out and DO something real to help the subjects of their prayers.
Yes, that's what I do. When I see someone starving on the street, I shake my head, thank God that I am not pathetic like them, then I pray that God will send giant birds to deliver them small morsels of food. Then I get into my BMW and pray they don't get smudges on my car as I drive by them.
I didn't mean it sarcastically. It was an honest question. Are you just bound and determined to find offense in anything I say?
I have yet to receive a comment from you that wasn't at least meant to be slightly offensive. Turn the tables and tell me how you would receive that comment.
really? You genuinely believe that in the past year, I have never said one thing that you didn't take some kind of offense to? Even before you started ignoring my posts? Wow.
I've tried with you, Beth. I really have. I've lost my cool a few times, but no more than you have. Yet you insist on finding something offensive in everything I've said to you. There's really no overcoming that. It's like you have in your mind that I'm somehow your enemy, and you're always on your guard, even when i'm trying to be polite and respectful. If you're going to find offense in everything regardless of how it was intended or meant, what's the point in even trying?
And who are you to tell me that my comments were MEANT to be offensive, when I'm the one saying them and it wasn't my intention to be offensive at all? If you take them offensively, that's really not my problem. You've said some things that I find heartless and offensive, but I try my best to consider the source, and I certainly don't speak to what you MEAN when you say them. I take your words at face value. If you're so determined to be offended, that speaks to your mindset - not the mind of the person trying to communicate with you.We are all Beth's enemies, because we don't share her beliefs and are not interested in being saved by Jesus. She will stand by and watch gleefully as we roast in hell if she had her way.
Exactly. And I don't just hate non believers here on the forum... I run around asking ppl in real life if they're saved by a God Who loves them. If they say no, I spit on them and run away. (I have to run cause some ppl take offense to that.)
That is fun to imagine, I spose, but in reality, the only actual friends I have are unsaved folks. Not a choice or anything, just the ppl I spend the most time with. I love them just as much as the believers I know. But your story is fun too. It makes for more entertaining threads.Yes, you have done that many times here and people have taken offense to that, but that doesn't stop you from continuing to tell people they need to be saved, or will burn in hell.
And, if you behaved the same way you do to them as you do here, they wouldn't be your friends for very long.I don't actually do that. I do believe in Heaven and Hell, and I believe every thing the Bible says about it. If someone brings it up and asks me about my opinions, I wont lie, but yeah... I don't really remember running around telling anyone, "Turn or you'll burn."
Yet, another whopper of a tale.
Of course you conveniently don't remember that.
I can attest to this one. You hate believers here too
If the truth is supposed to set you free, how should one feel shame for speaking truth?
I have seen first hand some of the comments that you've made to the other believers here.You may not put words in my mouth. I have no hate for anyone here. If I disagree with ppl's beliefs or the way they communicate them, then we are all guilty of the same thing.
Once again, you all have moved over to the mob mentality. As I said, soon you will have chased every one else away whose thoughts differ from yours and you will only have one another to talk to. If that is your goal, then why do you continue when I have already offered to step aside?There are plenty of intelligent, engaging believers to have respectful conversations with who don't behave like children at the first point of disagreement.
So, let me get this straight. You express disagreement with the beliefs of others or the way they communicate and it's okay because you don't hate anyone. But when others do the same to you, they are attacking, picking fights, or an angry mob? Do I have it right?
Looks right to me. Very perceptively correct, I might add.
You said I hated you? Ive never said that. Never. I told you I didn't like you speaking for me. I told you I didn't like the way I felt you accommodated every single opinion as if garnering good opinion was more important than holding to truth. I told you that privately, by email, when you asked. You became livid. I shut my mouth. You now take pot shots as often as possible, I accept that you are angry with me, but it does get to be a bit much when you're all doing it at once.
Show me where I accused you of hating me? I didn't say that. I said I can attest that you hate Christians too. Since I've been here, I've gotten nothing from you but sarcasm, condescension, and false, accusatory attacks against my character as well as my faith. I still take no pot shots at you. I was observing that you apparently do not judge your own actions with the same standards that you judge the others here. You take shots at everyone here with no problem under the mask of "telling the truth in love with no malice and simple disagreement", yet when we disagree with you (whether singularly or in a group) you claim attack. I never outright attacked you first.
As far as me being "angry with you", I stated before that in order for me to have any emotion toward you, you would have to be someone that either I respect or someone that makes a major difference in my life. You fit neither category.
But as I stated before, your behavior sets a double standard. You cannot punch others then cry when you get hit back. If you are going to take shots then put on your big girl panties and be prepared to receiveI can't agree with you there Deeps. I can't help it if I am not understood, but I hate no one here.... no Christian, no unbeliever.
It's not that we don't understand you, Beth. It's that we don't agree with you - and that's okay. I don't have to agree with the things you say or the way you say them, but it doesn't mean that I'm attacking you by dissagreeing. You have no problem jumping on the dog pile when it's one or two atheists outnumbered by Christians. When it's more than one person disagreeing with you, however, it's suddenly a mob and you're convinced that you're being attacked. Don't you see that as a blatant double standard? You did that everything I've ever said to you was intended to be offensive, but some of the things you've said to me are incredibly rude and condescending. You've said numerous times that you're not here to make friends or gain respect, and you certainly don't offer respect to those that disagree with you, atheist and Christian alike. How can you be offended when you get back exactly the same kind of posts that you yourself put out there? Is incredibly hypocritical, and it actually saddens me that you seem blind to it on your own part, but are more than willing to point it out in others.
I can assure you, you don't understand me. I will live with that. We all have to live with being misunderstood at times.
Can you peer into my mind and tell me what I do or don't know or understand? Is that a magical power? How arrogant, to presume to tell a virtual stranger what they do or don't understand. I'm sure that had I said that, you would have been offended by it, no?
Wow... Im trying to move on. Im trying to be peaceful. I am often trying to avoid fighting by making light, or leaving without saying fighting words. I feel there is little I can say to make an exit here, but be assured I am trying very hard.
It's simple, really. You make an exit by leaving and nor responding anymore. It's also as simple as following through on things that you say you're going to do. I don't know many people who genuinely wish to leave a conversation by taking about leaving. They just go.
I have not intended to insult or offend you, but you are convinced that I do, despite what I say. Yet you have no problem assuming things about me, making snide and rude comments about me. Is that not a double standard, Beth? Would you not be crying foul if I told you what you did or didn't understand or know? You pitched a fit when I told you that you were ignorant of church history, even though you admitted that you didn't know much about it. Maybe you don't remember it. Who knows? It just seems that you excuse your own negative behavior but condemn others for your perception of what they say.
I'm genuinely curious why you're so fed up with me that you continually say you're going to ignore me, yet you still talk to atm daily and follow him around the forums with glee.Take a breath. Ive had a long day. Maybe you have too.
I'm not upset at you Beth, I'm trying to talk to you. I'm breathing just fine, but thank you for your concern.
You keep saying that but you keep coming back and doing the same thing over and over. You are not trying to be peaceful or avoid fighting, that is the point everyone is trying to make to you.
No Beth, it is not a matter of misunderstanding you, this is what everyone is trying to get through your head, but you are willfully denying it.
And that's fine, Beth. We don't have to agree on a subject. But because we disagree on a subject doesn't mean that I'm personally against you. It just means we disagree.
You say we don't understand you. We're even then because you do not understand me at all either. But the difference between us is that I have honestly tried to understand you. Unfortunately, you have stated before that you aren't here for understanding. That makes things somewhat difficult when trying to converse with you because as we go along and I keep asking questions or making a specific point you fall back into attack mode against me. This even happens when I am talking to others. I'm not here to fight you. I prefer open discussion with you and others here on a subject without it becoming personal.Yes Beth, that is what everyone is trying to get through your head. We are all saying the same thing to you, so you obviously don't agree with everyone else, then.
I think you're right. I did not, in this instance, agree with you, Deepes, JM and Radman. (I hope I didn't leave anyone out.)
So, in other words, you're going to continue to willfully deny your double standard behavior, despite being told by multiple people.
Do you really think I should blindly follow the 5 of you? Whether or not I believe you to be correct? Wouldn't that make me somewhat weak willed if I actually knew my own heart and mind and pretended you all knew me better than I knew myself? Why would I do this? For fear of continued insult? I thought when a cult got a hold of ppl, they pretended to care for someone and brought them into their lair with talk of love and acceptance. But I would be fooled into ignoring my very own knowledge of self b/c of anger, unkind words and bullying? This doesn't compute.
Do you even understand what it means to be bullied. Nobody here took your lunch money away.
Then why would you make the false claim that you are being bullied?
Because you feel it is false I should think it is false? These are silly arguments to have so early in the morning, don't you think?
Correct, well I'm about to "sin" and catch up on some work on Sunday morning. Do you every have to work on Sundays?
That is because it is false, obviously.
You only toss out bullying and angry accusations because you're incapable of holding a discussion and defending your position with any logic and reasoning, so you lash out with petty accusations. Lots of believers who are incapable of holding a discussion do the very same thing.Bringing up another point. You have accused us of making false accusations toward you and we are to agree that they are false when against you, but you apparently are saying that you are simply calling it as you see it when it is you accusing us? It goes back to setting the same standard for your own behavior that you set for us. It appears that your actions toward us don't match the standard of behavior that you value for yourself. Golden rule
Here is yet another example of Beth saying insulting and horrible things about atheists,completely unprovoked, the double standard behavior everyone is trying to tell you about...
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/118425I believe you have totally missed the point. THEY ARE ONLY TRYING TO GET YOU TO BE HONEST. And to be honest sometimes means really looking at your position OBJECTIVELY. You seem incapable of doing that. No offense, but any observer can see that it is your rigid belief that's causing this conflict. You're a victim of your beliefs, and not these people...who are simply trying to get you to think. Religion is the bully.
According to what I've been told, speaking for others and trying to clarify are no-nos.
And I rest my case. Again you are focusing on my behavior when you are doing the same thing
Im not sure why you felt you had to have a case, but Im relieved to hear that you've finally rested it.
Painful. Just painful.
She wanted a casual Sunday morning conversation so I told her what I was doing and asked her if she ever does the same, but she didn't respond to that. Oh well back to my image search. A casual none white person answering the phone in what looks like a school setting. gotta put food on the table.
Okay, Beth. This statement is good as far as staying true to yourself in the face of opposition. But it continues to raise a point that we(or at least I have said). You are saying you aren't going to change the way you communicate here in the forums even though the offensiveness of your comments are pointed out, yet you appear to get hurt by offensive comments made toward you. You cannot fairly expect others to change the way they act toward you but you keep behaving the same way. There is a saying I've heard: Be the Chang you want to see in others.
Let me backtrack here and go back to being true to myself in the effort of gaining understanding. You say I do not understand you. This is the biggest confusion that I have with you. You have repeatedly stated that you are here only to discuss the bible and things of God. However, looking back at various threads of comments made toward me alone, your actual actions aren't matching what your stated objective is. I have made statements regarding the subject ( even in clarifying what is being said on the subject), but then you make sarcastic comments about me being a peacemaker, rude comments about me being fake, and unfounded accusations of me watering down the bible. The first statement I recall you defining the term bully in another thread where the use of sarcasm was included. The first statement could be viewed as bullying because it is a sarcastic comment of my intentions. This is offensive in itself. The second statement is an attack on my character. The third is an attack on my faith. Three different insults. Three different bully tactics. Three different attacks. As I stated before, none of them bother me personally or hurt my feelings, but each one contradicts your objective (first of all) and also do not relate to the topic of the forum(secondly). Perhaps you could (if you're inclined) to shed clarity on how these things match your objective so I can understand. As I said before, I like you but the apparent contradiction holds back my total respect for you because in our relationship from the beginning you have been the aggressor against me and now I'm just starting more and more to respond.
i didn't put any words in your mouth, and I was attempting to converse with you prior to anyone else showing up, remember? I responded to a comment you directed at Deepes. If you're going to address me, address things that I've actually said - and not comments made to you by others. That way we can avoid misunderstanding, do you agree?
Beth has confused mob mentality with the fact that many here, believers and non-believers alike are trying to get the same thing through her head, which she refuses to understand.
That started looking pretty intense. Was it nice? Should I finish it or is it mean? Give me the short answer and then I'll know if it's safe to read.
I actually want to communicate with you in a civil manner, but since you've already deemed that impossible, just don't bother. Forget that I asked, and forget that I tried to be nice at all. Should be easy since you're convinced that I never did.
I give up.I didn't see that you'd tried to be nice anywhere. Ive seen you be nice to ppl and had yet to experience that myself. If you ever would like to make a kind comment to me, I am totally open to that. I would then be more than happy to return the kindness as I find that is more my nature than avoiding someone.
how am I supposed to do that, when I've tried before and yet you're sitting here telling me that EVERYTHING I have EVER said to you was somehow MEANT to be offensive to you, whether I actually intended it that way or not?
Yeah, I really don't remember you ever having been kind to me at all. If you have been, I apologize for missing it.
So what difference dies it make if I try like I have in the past if you're just going to decide that I'm trying to offend you when I'm not?
I don't know... I gave up a long time ago. I guess you are just now catching up to where I was. You'll let me know if you'd like to start over?
Are you willing to accept that being offended by something does not necessarily reflect on the intention of the person who said it, but speaks to perception?
Of course, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... so to speak.
I wonder if the problem is that you can't separate your beliefs with who you are as a person so you can discuss them like an adult? You seem to make statements and then don't want to discuss them in a discussion forum. What is it you wish to obtain from participating in these forums?
I rest my case. One can't seem to have a discussion with you.
You're looking for a fight. I don't like to fight. Im sorry if Im pointing out to you that you throw out fighting words... accusations... insults. If you could just lighten up a bit, it might be easier to actually discuss a subject with you.
No, telling people they need to be saved by Jesus or will roast in hell are fighting words, accusations and insults. Rad Man was simply asking you some questions.
Uh, I was talking to Radman, should I tell you to butt out?
In case you've forgotten?
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/118395#post2499588Please point out one unbeliever that you are able to intelligently converse with. ATM is right. We ask questions to start a conversation and you accuse everyone of wanting a fight.
But, I was asking direct questions to the OP in that thread when you came along with irrelevant questions in which you gave little to no thought at all before posting them.
What "fighting" words did I use? Seems to me that the only way to have a conversation with you is to agree with you. Disagreeing is not fighting.
"so you can discuss them like an adult"
This is an insult, as if you didn't know.
Once you say something like that, it taints everything else you say.
So when I read the rest of your post about how you think I can't communicate... I no longer want to take time to communicate points, but want instead to make light of what you've said... or avoid you all together. This is basic human stuff. It is common to all of us. (Now ATM will say it is not common to all of us, it is only common to me etc.) If you want real conversation, be real. Stop turning everything into one-ups-man-ship and start having thoughtful, interesting conversations. We can laugh, we can disagree, we can agree... but it doesn't have to be childish communication, stick, poke, stick.Telling others they need to be saved by Jesus or else burn in hell is not common to just you, there are a few other Christians that do that here, as well, much to the dismay of everyone else, including the Christians who actually do discuss things like adults.
And yes, Rad Man and others like myself do disagree with those other Christians, we even get into heated arguments sometimes, like Melissa and myself, for example, yet Melissa does not stoop to the same childish tactics as those few righteous Christians who have yet to understand anything about Christ.So instead of acting like an adult, you act like a child. This comment is not meant to be an insult, but an observation. remaining on an adult level will garner a healthy conversation.
Rad Man says "can we talk like adults"
Beth says "I know you are but what am I"
Then if as you say God created us all, why are some gay?
Another question, do you consider all sex a sin or are you exempt from sin if it's with your spouse?Sex is not sinful IF with a spouse, strictly for procreation purposes and never recreation, and always in the missionary position. It is in fact REQUIRED of married couples and those that do not participate in the dirty little practice will be disciplined.
Straight from the Church, centuries and centuries ago.
It makes no sense for good reason. Beth avoids the hard questions for good reason.
If there were a God that made one attracted to the same sex and not the opposite sex then one would need to ask why he would do that. The only answer I can come up with is to see if one would act upon the attraction that he made a sin. I wouldn't consider that to be a loving compassionate thing to do.Exactly.
And this is why I have such an issue with religion as a whole.
It is bent to benefit some and not others...Anyone not fitting a certain mold is an outcast...It is this type of thing that leads to hatred, racism, and a whole mess of other "evils"
Oh, let me get in really good with my Christian friends here.
Frankly, I believe that homosexuality is a natural tendency. People are born that way.
IMO, what the bible condemns as sin isn't homosexual activity, but sexually immoral activity. Wanton, lustful sexual activity that results in harm to a person's body, psyche, or family. That is not generally a set of dangers to be encountered in a committed and monogamous sexual relationship.
The whole "if a man lay with a man as with a woman" thing refers to sleeping with someone for recreational purposes, such as one might engage a prostitute. The men of the day (the ones who penned the scriptures, for instance) didn't see anything objectionable about a man using a female, but to take it a step further and lie with a man was revolting to them...sorta ties to the whole patriarchal society, IMO. Women who were prostitutes were considered evil but not the men who engaged them.
To make a long story short (too late, sorry), I think we're made how we're made. The same Christian who condemns a homosexual as unnatural should condemn celibacy as an unnatural life, and asexuality as being in open defiance of God's directive to go forth and multiply. Oddly enough, they don't condemn those things. Homosexuality is their target, but I personally feel that comes from thousands of years of misunderstood and misinterpreted Scripture.
I don't think homosexuality is a sin. There are myriad sexually immoral acts that occur within the homosexual community... Oh, wait, that happens in the straight community too...never mind.
I'm sure you get my point.Very nice answer...
Just a personal note...You are correct for the most part...That part of the bible (Leviticus) is for the "Priestly class" and was in fact refering to the "Prostitution" that was part of religion in those days... Guy and Girls who invoked a god or goddess and had sex (for religious reasons) with the worshipper....This was something not allowed of the Jewish Priest...The pagan religions were big on this...It was thought it gave a spiritual connection to the God/dess in question for what they (the worshipper) was asking assistance for...I have a very solid academic, if not degreed, history with Scripture from my time in the convent.
And that would explain why you are so easy for the Atheist type to communicate with I would imagine...
Maybe. It makes it much easier for me to converse with them for sure. I don't feel defensive or ambushed when approached with the concept of scriptural contradictions, historical context, etc.
Sorry, but you have no evidence to support that claim. None. It is nothing more than a belief.
That is not true and you have no evidence to support that claim.
That is a fairy tale, please stick to reality.
Pure baloney, you have no evidence to support that claim, it is bogus.
Pure crap, you have no evidence to support that claim. None. It is merely an indoctrinated belief. It is a direct result of the Bible teaching a good person bad things.
No, Beth, listening to ATM isn't what that post is about. I'm regularly astonished at your attitude where he's concerned. My statement was in response to a good point that he made.
Sorry to steal a line from my friend, but Christians need to guard against being "so spiritually minded as to be no earthly good."
Don't like what ATM has to say? Tell him. Don't make passive aggressive snide remarks intended to be judgmental toward me by using him as a smoke screen.I was not being passive aggressive, I spoke to you directly because I was astonished that you would have made a statement like the one you did.
I have never had a problem in the past speaking directly to ATM, Im not sure why you thought I did this time.
My particular favourite,
"What kind of excuse is Jesus going to accept when people come before Him on judgement day…. I had to support my family".
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Jesus said in (John 5:28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,).
It has been said that if Jesus had made a general command that all the dead from the past would have come back to life. That is the power and authority He has at His disposal! However, to the scoffers who were there even a greater demonstration of power would not have changed their hearts. This was demonstrated with the Israelites coming out of Egypt. At Mt. Sinai, God showed Himself mightily to them, but that never turned their hearts toward Him.
Miracles of themselves do not produce Godly faith and worship. As Jesus told Thomas later, (John 20:29. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.) Faith is believing without first having to see. - SirDentposted 11 years ago0
2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Why don't you think about it? Meditate upon the fact that God has called you, a "nobody", to be somebody. I know that I have many faults, but I also know who I am in Christ. I used to be a "nobody", but now I am somebody in Jesus Christ. You have the opportunity right now to become somebody. Will you let this moment slip by? Will you let the devil talk you out of the greatest blessing anyone can receive?
Jesus waits for you with arms open wide. He loves you so much that the nails weren't really needed to hold Him on the cross. His love for you held Him there.Sorry, I don't need your delusion to be somebody or to be a good somebody. Perhaps this is something you should work (since you are giving advice). Being a good and whole person without the need of a crutch or delusion. This is something YOU can accomplish on your own and take full credit for, it's boost your self esteem and that will show in the eyes of others as well as your own. Are you going to miss this opportunity?
Here's the thing, Sir Dent. While you may have found something that has apparently helped you stop smoking pot, drinking alcohol and playing music, many would see that as simply trading one vice for another, because the actual problems you have are still there, they have not been solved. That is why people seek professional help to solve their problems rather than pick up on a religion, which doesn't really solve anything.
Nonetheless, you found something that you say has helped you, but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with anybody else. We don't need your religion to help us because we don't need to trade one vice for another, if indeed our problems are with vices. If I had a problem with drugs or alcohol, I would seek professional help to first solve the underlying problems of addiction and then seek professional help to stop the addictions.
Picking up a Bible and waving it around at everyone else only serves to show you still have not solved the underlying problems of addiction and are now just projecting those problems onto others.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
When we say God is sovereign, we mean that by virtue of His being the only God, He rules over the whole creation with supreme power and authority to do whatever He wills to do. As the sovereign Lord of the whole creation, God is also the judge of all creatures.
When people deny God is the creator, there is doubtlessly involved in this, a deep seated desire to be free from the accountability to God. God is the creator, we are accountable to Him, and He has the right to what is right and wrong and to judge us for wrongdoing.Nevertheless, saying that god is the creator and we are all accountable to him does not make it true. You can make assertions about a lot of things, but until you have the proof necessary to back them up, they are nothing more than assertions - and there are a lot of religious assertions in the world and a very small amount of proof.
Well, it certainly does look like you have given up on discussion and moved directly to preaching.
Yes, we are instead accountable to ourselves, not an imaginary being in which accountability means absolutely nothing.Hard to discuss with those who can't see what you are saying. Even harder to discuss with those who call you a liar.
Yes, it is. Didn't you call us all sinners? Didn't you specifically accuse ATM of lying? Haven't you said on several occasions that you aren't here to discuss anything but to preach?
I believe at one point you even accused me of sleeping around on my husband.
Pot, meet kettle.Proof of your accusations is required. I did say all are sinners. I admit to that.
I'll find the thread and quote ya dear. Give me a second.
For "sleeping around"
Link: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/109245#post2325039
For calling atm a liar:
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/109430? … ost2497366OK, let's look at what was said by you then my reply.
You said, " Personally I'll "fornicate" with whomever I like. There is no justification needed or attempted."
I said, "How do you justify sleeping around with whoever you choose?"
A question asked but not an accusation. You also answered by saying, "I don't justify "sleeping around with whoever I choose".
I bolded your comments just for accuracy in who said what.Do you still beat your wife?
Saying that I'll fornicate with whomever I like isn't the same thing as saying I sleep around. I am married, which is common knowledge. I said I had the free will to choose, you implied that I chose to "sleep around"
I could go out and steal a car too if I like.
Are you going to accuse me of auto theft?I took sleeping as past tense, as in before you were married. Did you take it as present tense?
I took it as both.
He seems to equate bisexual with promiscuous. I remember more posts with that assumption from him, I'm not going digging right now.
Just for the record though, even if he meant it "in the past" It's still insulting and HUGELY judgmental. I've never "slept around"
So yeah, it's hard to have a conversation with someone who basically calls you a slut. Being called a liar is kinda mild in comparison.I shouldn't speak for him, but I would assume if you slept with different partners, whether they were gay or straight, that would be considered sleeping around. I don't know, Im not up on the correct sexual partner stat lingo... but I doubt he was being judgmental, only b/c he confessed his sins in an earlier thread. I don't know, a part of me wants to defend him and a part of me wants to set your mind at ease, but if I told Deepes I don't like it when he speaks for me, I shouldn't do it for others. They always say we don't like the issues in others that we have ourselves. I think that's true.
LMAO! So that would mean that Brenda Durham "slept around" because she had more than one partner in her life? She was divorced and remarried.
Sleeping around means promiscuous. I am not now nor have I ever been promiscuous. I'm a long-term relationship kinda gal.Yes I do know that. I was using an example that we all knew.
It is my opinion that you should refrain from using her name since she is not here to speak for herself.
Your opinion has been noted and given the consideration I feel it deserves.
Seriously though, you do realize your words were untrue- or at least unfounded- and exceptionally judgmental and insulting. Right?
Just pointing it out that such things come from both sides and make conversations extremely difficult to have. I think it mostly comes from the inability to empathize and the way we make judgement on what we think people would do, not what they actually do.
It's not an uncommon misconception for people to think that bi-sexuals are promiscuous. It is a misconception though, and a very hurtful one. For me especially, because I take my wedding vows very seriously. I take my relationships very seriously.
Empathy, the ability to put yourself in another person's shoes, is one of the first things that is lost when discussing things you feel strongly about. Mostly because the stronger you feel about something, the more you are willing to demonize those with polar opposite viewpoints.
Just keep that in mind.Those are your thoughts about what I think. You implied that you slept around at that time by saying, "Personally I'll "fornicate" with whomever I like. There is no justification needed or attempted." I merely asked how you could justify doing that very thing.
I will say I remember that thread even though it was months ago. I cannot remember my mind set at the time. There was no judging done by me.I choose my own partners of my own free will. It is my choice.
You choose many partners.
The first sentence is what I said. The second is what you assumed.
They don't mean the same thing at all.
Just saying.
I am too, though if you count the online time I spent wandering away from God, I guess I am now quite a failure in that dept.
Take it how you want. I cannot change your mind.
Sorry Sir Dent, that is not true, we can all plainly see what you are saying.
Is there a reason for that?
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
1Sa_8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
When the Word of God is rejected, God Himself is rejected. Many reject God unknowingly by rejecting the Word of truth that is spoken to them. Be of good cheer, Beth. Don't let them get to you. God is a majority all by Himself.Please accept my thanks... that means more than you know!
Sir Dent, there are many Christians who do not accept everything written in the Bible, you included.
I don't know if Christian would be the correct term for someone who does not believe the Bible to be true. A Theist or Deist maybe, would be the correct term.
That is the No True Scotsman fallacy, Beth.
Here we go again Beth.
You make the claim that real Christians believe every word of the bible and then I point out some of the nasty things real Christians are told by the bible to do and you run away.I'm talking about simple terms here Radman... you can look them up if they don't fit.
- Will Apseposted 11 years ago0
I eats my eggs pointy side up. And I hates all those that eats their eggs roundy side up.
Death to the roundy siders!I don't know what a pointy egg is.
Oh, you mean still in the shell? No one has eaten an egg that way in America since 1952. I saw it in a movie.Every egg has a pointy side end and a roundy side end and I can see you are a misleading and contrary woman.
lol. I guess that is the consensus this morning. Im so tired. I don't want to go to work today. Will you pretend to be my father and call my boss and tell him Im terribly ill? It would only cost you a mere $15... per minute.
I could tell him you got drunk and beat up some atheists for kicks if you like.
Ah so like me you work on Sundays. How un-Christian of you. I guess you don't take the bible seriously after all.
So I guess we won't see anymore of your true scotsman fallacies? You understand the bible to be the true word of God, but still work on Sundays? You have no response other then telling me to take a break. Thanks but I can decide when I need to take a break, I don't need anyone telling me what to do.
Just to change the subject slightly. Today is Loi Krathong where I am. The lakes and rivers are full of flowers with candles burning amongst them. And the sky is full of krathong (sort of miniature hot air balloons).
Krathong on a lake:
I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know what this signifies. I did know but I have been here so long I have forgotten.Do you live in China? lol
That doesn't seem very European. It's quite beautiful though.'Fraid all the river spirits fled Europe long ago. They all live in the tropics now. Along with lobster pink expats and crooked cops.
How lovely. My friend who lived in Eng. now lives in Madrid. (Her name is Sue, do you know her? Sue from London?)
Sue from London?
You know it is slightly depressing because I live in a genuinely remote part of the world and there really is a Sue from London.
In fact, we have a couple of dozen Londoners in an expat pop of about 200. They outnumber the Aussies and the Americans and every other European tribe and all they ever talk about is soccer.
Sigh. I met a woman from Birmingham the other day and she never stopped complaining about 'the immigrants'. Seems it was the vile immigrants who compelled her to emigrate.Do you share where you live now or is that private?
I fear ATM. lol. He would not look good in a dugout!
Oh look, the double standard behavior rearing it's head again. Will Beth ever learn?
You have nothing of value in your arsenal... As a weapon, antagonism is without merit.
Im saying I think you and your friends ought to catch your collective breath and refocus. The road we were on had little to do with any forum topic and would be very hard not to classify as a personal attack. There's no harm in starting over.
Beth has a point that I will +1. The discussion did move away from an actual forum topic onto personal behavior which is something all of us (including her) did. Let's refocus on a forum topic. Hopefully ALL of us will be able to do it.
So what do we discuss?Excuse me? YOU are the one who just made this post not long ago. YOU are the one making personal attacks. YOU are the one who needs to refocus.
Stop projecting your own bad behavior onto others.Come on, ATM. We're supposed to focus on a topic, not people
Uh yeah, that's what I'm trying to tell Beth, but she insists on continuing to post personal insults, one which was made little more than an hour ago, and then she has the audacity to tell us to refocus.
Please tell her to focus on forum topics.Well it was mentioned. Let's be the ones to affect the change. This way, there can be no excuses if ANY of us strays from it.
Well, Beth is at it again, tossing out personal insults, completely unprovoked, it didn't take her very long to stray, did it...
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/118417? … ost2500393And now, Will Apse is trying to justify tossing out personal insults, which he also did, and is blaming me for not forgiving them. Oh, the hypocrisy.
That's OT stuff, the NT stuff doesn't prohibit working on Sundays, or Saturdays, which some folks consider the Sabbath day.
I think the rule in the NT is to not earn money. Helping others doesn't count. She goes to work to make money while her bible tells her it's a sin. We should all pray for her.
Exactly. It is just one of many scenarios in which Beth is forced to face up to reality in light of her religious beliefs and then, hypocritically, come right back to these forums to tell us again how she completely believes everything in the Bible.
The law came thru Moses, grace thru Jesus Christ.
Gal. 3:23-25: “But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor (to lead us) to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. "
Gal 5:4 The Christian who seeks to keep the law to be justified or sanctified has fallen from grace.
Rom 8:3-6 “For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
Gal 3:19: “What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made.”
Rom.11:6 “And if by grace then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. but if it is by works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work." It is either one or the other it can't be both, these are two different covenants.If you choose to be under one then you are removed from the other.
Rom. 6:14-15 “For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.”
Rom. 7:6: “But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
Gal 2:16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”"When the Pharisees accused Jesus of violating the law by healing on the Sabbath, He again was able to reveal their hypocrisy by using their own contradictory rules. First, we will examine Jesus' acknowledgement that He had been working. The Sabbath law is, in part: "Six days shall you labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work" (Exodus 20:9–10). Notice that the work forbidden by the Sabbath law is "your work." The law does not forbid works of service towards God."
Beth are you working for yourself on Sunday?
I will refrain from fanning that particular flame.
Actually, it was laid by the invisible purple dragon living in my garage.
Did your dragon and JM's dragon... you know
I would not at all be surprised, being invisible and all. It's hard to tell when the dragon is there, sometimes. I still wonder how I actually know it's purple.
At least, I figured out it's gender.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
*[[Psa 1:1]] NET* How blessed is the one who does not follow the advice of the wicked, or stand in the pathway with sinners, or sit in the assembly of scoffers!
Then why are you here? You are siting in the assembly of scoffers and standing in the pathway of those you feel are sinners?
Can we rephrase that to "God loves and rewards those that remain ignorant, refusing to learn from those with knowledge"?
I have a question. Why did you choose to post this scripture by itself? To someone that is new to the faith or on the outside looking in, it appears that this scripture means that one should have no human contact at all. Verses 2 and 3 are part of that scripture as that whole block tells where the blessing lies. You cannot pull one text out of a block and formulate a lesson. You run the risk of getting it taken out of context
I am trying to ffgure out a tablet. Learning how to copy and paste more than a single verse.
*[[Psa 1:2]] NET* Instead he finds pleasure in obeying the LORD’s commands; he meditates on his commands day and night.
*[[Psa 1:3]] NET* He is like a tree planted by flowing streams; it yields its fruit at the proper time, and its leaves never fall off. He succeeds in everything he attempts.
Can only do a verse at a time.Oh okay. It just confused me a little. It seemed slightly out of character for you . No offense meant
Am still having trouble with my Bible program. I should be able to select many verses to copy. I will keep working at it.
MySword. Dl'ed it last night. I figured out how to C&P multiple verses now. Need to learn the rest of the program now.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
The Day Begins
Warm halo shows at the end of the salty water
God exhales piling the liquid in small heaps
Waves crash against the shoreline causing small puddles
They return to their origin dancing in the wind
Brightness grows glimmering as the sun goes higher
Warmth is felt as it's strength grows
Seagulls soar higher and higher
Searching for breakfast in the shallows below
Mounting upon their steeds
Surfers search for the perfect wave
Going out to ride back in
The thrill is what they seek
The sand between my toes and the wind in my face
I stroll searching for a place of peace
My favorite time of all
Is the moment the day begins.Yes, it is one of the poems I wrote a couple years ago.
Thank you very much. Here is another for you.
Dance
MOONLIGHT DANCING ON THE OCEAN WAVES
LONGING TO FEEL IT'S COOL EMBRACE
SHIMMER AND SHAKE AS THE WAVES COME IN
ONLY WANTING TO DANCE WITH A FRIEND
NO DESIRE TO VACILLATE ALONE
INCLINED TO SKIP ALL THE WAY HOME
HOLDING THE HAND OF THE ONE WHO LOVES
WHOSE TOUCH AND EMBRACE IS GENTLE AS A DOVE
THE WIND OBEYS HIM AND ALSO THE SEA
DELIVERER REDEEMER WHO SAVED ME
FROM THE BONDS OF SIN DEATH AND SHAME
NOT FOR MONEY AND NOT FOR FAME
AS TIME GOES BY AND THE SEASONS CHANGE
THE DANCE ITSELF WILL BE REARRANGED
THE RHYTHM OF LIFE IN ALL ITS GLORY
WILL BE THE ESSENCE THAT SHOWS THE STORY
A NEW DAY DAWNS AS THE SUN JOINS IN
THE HEAVENS OPEN, A NEW DANCE BEGINS
THE SON OF MAN LEAVES HIS ABODE
BLESSING GALORE UPON MAN HE BESTOWED
TO SAVE THE LOST MAKE THEM WHOLE AGAIN
IF YOU AGREE, GIVE A HEARTY AMEN
IF YOU ARE LOST WITH NO WHERE TO TURN
GRACE IS HERE NOW AND CANNOT BE EARNED
TURN TO HIM NOW WHILE TIME IS YET HERE
GOD HAS MADE EVERYTHING VERY CLEAR
HE SENT HIS SON TO DIE FOR YOUR SINS
CHRIST JESUS IS HIS NAME, LET SALVATION BEGIN.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
The Lost Cause
The stronghold of the abyss has captured my mind
Unable to move to limbo I resign
Confined to a cell I made my abode
Excruciating torture with torment overflowed
My spirit is blackened isolated and obscure
Searching for hope unable to find a cure
Needing someone to save me from the pit
Authorize my freedom to Him I will commit
Then I can journey in the ways of the Master
To be with my Lord from here on after
No longer torn with my enemies claws
Never again be designated as the lost cause.We are not lost causes, are we? There is hope for all of us. Thanks Sir Dent. Lovely as always.
Nice post, SirDent. Never allow yourself to be a lost cause. As long as there is breath in our bodies, there are no lost causes among the people
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
The Sculptor
Proficient in invention, the Master strokes the dust of the earth. Structure appears, a physique originates. Deft hands stroke outlining a head. Fingers caress forming organs of sight. Nasal cavities configured as the nose is shaped. Labiums made for verbalization. Auditory apparatus produced for hearing the voices of all beings which applaud the Sculptor. Construction of the chin gives the final appearance to the head of the masterpiece.
Hands frame the neck, smoothing the bumps. Appendages manifest into forelimbs with hands and fingers comparable to the Sculptor. The torso contoured as the Sculptor toils. Each sinew hewn after the fashion of the expert. Lower appendages built to endure exertion. Feet develop as the substructure of the modeling. The framework is complete but the masterpiece is not concluded.
The Sculptor gazes upon his masterpiece only to see himself. His production became his image and likeness. Statuesque in appearance, unmoving and still. The Sculptor lifts the mass and kisses it breathing into the nostrils to give life.
Tubes form to carry the elixir of life throughout the masterpiece. The lungs expand and contract with each breath and the statue is now a living soul. Power rushes into the flesh permitting motion. Nerves connect to the viscus entitling cognizance.
The Masterpiece stands erect and saunters. The Sculptor gazes upon his creation and sees that it is exemplary. The Sculptor adores his masterpiece so much that he cultivates an ecosystem in which it will abide. The Sculptor then named his creation, Adam (אדם).
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."In 1951, in a Scientific American article by the same name, Wilton Krogman referred to these negative outcomes as "the scars of human evolution." This research has important consequences for understanding present-day health. This symposium focuses on negative consequences of our evolutionary legacy. We examine the scars of human evolution in a number of areas, including orthopedics, obstetrics, dentistry, gerontology, diet, and nutrition. Far from a product of intelligent design, it is clear that human biology and behavior is the consequence of an evolutionary process that involved a number of trade-offs, which result in many of the problems associated with the current human condition."
http://aaas.confex.com/aaas/2013/webpro … n5714.html
"Top 10 Signs Of Evolution In Modern Man"
http://listverse.com/2009/01/05/top-10- … odern-man/Cool! Like all creative writing or poetry it is long on emotional impact and short on fact, but a cool piece of fiction.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
An acrostic poem.
Jesus, King of Kings and Lord of Lords
Just as man thought God was not real
Eternity gave him a visit
Showing him the way the truth and the life
Understanding coming by the Spirit
Salvation is now here for those who desire it
Knowledge increases as man moves farther away
Ignoring the calls of a holy God
Never stopping to listen to that still small voice
Going his own way by his own mind
Overtly running with likeminded people
Following after their own lusts
Keeping not the commandments of God
Instituting their own rules and laws
Naked before the Lord of hosts
Gambling with their very lives
Sadly they refuse eternal life
Abducted by the enemy of God
Neglecting the urges of the Holy Ghost
Darkness overcomes them and they are lost
Laboring for their selfish pleasures
Overlooking what comes beyond life
Ridiculing believers at all times
Denying that Jesus is real
Outward appearance seemingly of God
Facetious ramblings of evil men
Love has come to them in the form of Christ
Overlooking their faults with a gift of grace
Redeeming them from the hand of the enemy
Delivering them from the bonds of sin
Salvation of man by Jesus, King of kings and Lord of lords.
Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. - SirDentposted 11 years ago0
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
Paul was writing to the Corinthians about coming out of idolatry. Apparently, they had gone back to their old ways of living and doing things.
A big problem facing believers today is it seems no one knows what is good or bad anymore. There are so many false doctrines preached from ungodly men and women that it is hard to discern lies from truth.
The Holy Ghost will always lead you to the truth. He will never lead you astray nor tell you a lie. He will empower those who receive Him.
Touch not the unclean thing, What is the unclean thing? Many have no clue as to what this entails. Jesus said, If you love me, follow my commandments." (paraphrased). He also said, "Marvel not if the world hates you for they hated me first.". Many will say they don't hate you but they do hate you. Just as Satan hates God and anything to do with God, the world will hate you.
Be of good cheer when men revile you and call you evil. Luk_6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. In the Words of Jesus Himself.But, we don't know if the Holy Ghost is just another preacher of false doctrine leading us astray.
Are we supposed to take your word for it?
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Another acrostic poem.
Immanuel God With Us
In the beginning God reigned over all
Majestic in stature and spirit
Marvelous in character
Always watchful over His creation
Never committing sin of any type
Understanding of how all things work
Elevated above all things as he is the Most High
Loving mankind so much that He gave
Grace and mercy extended toward all men
Occupying the hearts of those who open the door to let Him in
Dis remembering the sins of their past
Working for the good of all men
Initiating the plan of salvation
Tackling the devil Himself in the form of a man
Hating the stench of sin
Unabated strength because He never changes
Sacred and holy is Immanuel God with us. - SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Broken
My heart is broken. . . I don't know why
Tears keep falling. . . from my eyes
Too much hurt and too much pain
Too much conviction, guilt and shame
I see a man . . . arms stretched wide
He gives up the ghost. . . does he have to die?
To pay for my sins. . . redeem me from hell
Is it all worth it. . . only time will tell
As I walk I fall. . . I get up to walk again
The Lord is with me. . . He is my helmsman
To guide and direct me to where I need to go
To keep from harm from my enemy and my foe
True life begins. . . when repentance comes
Now I am alive. . . singing the Lord's anthems
I run with patience the course set before me
To help those in need. . . I can't just let them be. - SirDentposted 11 years ago0
†♦Death♦†
This poem has three line stanzas with the first two lines of each stanza rhyming. The last line of each stanza rhyme with one another. I am not sure if this is a known form of poetry or not. This is just how it came out when I wrote it. I hope you enjoy it very much.
The final breath was taken
That day our world was shaken
Is this the end of all things?
The covering remained still
And there was an intense chill
What will the next moment bring?
Will this be the end of life?
Our suffering turned to strife?
Our day spent in great weeping
The shell spreads the soul departs
We feel a heat in our hearts
As if we hear angels sing
A flower blooms deep red hues
Fabricated to amuse
Like a fresh life in the spring
For those covered by the blood
Grace moves in like a flood
Death is now a beginning.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?SirDent, Nice job. I believe your triad would be a variation on a Tercet. If it is a recognized and named variation, I am not aware of it. I do like both the poem and style.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Jesus did the work that no man could do simply because he remained faithful to God and true to His calling. There is no doubt that he was blessed and broken at the same time. Though none of his bones were broken, his heart was shattered like a glass thrown against a boulder.
Even as he was broken, he knew he was blessed. The Bible says, "It pleased God to bruise him." Many take this to mean God is cruel and was happy simply because Jesus was bruised, but that is not the case. It pleased God because Jesus obeyed his calling and redeemed sinful men from their kidnapper. You see, Jesus was the ransom that was required to pay for the release of man from the bonds of sin.
The Blessed and the Broken
Shards of my heart are exhibited to be seen
My Father in heaven does not intervene
Though I am debased and saturated with pain
It is now the season of the latter rain
Come unto me and I will award you rest
Son of the Almighty you can have the best
Suffering is brief not to last forever
As I saunter along on my endeavor
I will do my work remain faithful and true
To save those who are lost and haven't a clue
Crucifixion awaits begs my arrival
When it is complete I defeat my rival
Blood cascades out onto the thirsty ground
When I give up the ghost I will wear my crown
I descend to the lower parts of the earth
To rescue from prison those of the second birth
I ascend to heaven to sit on my throne
Understand that you will never be alone
To come after me the Word has been spoken
Then you will be called the blessed and the broken.
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.Always welcome.
I always notice those against whom bible warned: Matthew 7:15
"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves."Is that the best you can come up with? Get in line.
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6
I generally follow this especially while talking to satanists.Deleted
Shifting definitions in an effort to offend? If not, how does that square with your profile post?
Deleted
So in your profile you proclaim yourself a follower of Satan, then in the forums basically define Satan as the God of the bible. Rather roundabout way of claiming to follow God, isn't it? Could it be I was right the first time in that you are offering contradictory definitions of who Satan is?
"I am the follower of the light bearer, the angel of the true god. Most people call him Satan because it is the satanic forces that have the upper hand. "
I said I am the follower of the light bearer the angel of god, not 'I am the follower of satan'.
Then I, just above, defined who satan is - the one who does evil.
And I didn't define the god of bible as satan, that was your doing. In OT no where it is mentioned that god's son should die.Okay then. By your own description then you realize most Christians would consider you a Satanist, however you disagree and would not place that label upon yourself. Rather you choose to turn the tables and purport it is the God they follow who is truly Satan. Does that about sum it up?
Some what, but you do realise that you are saying that either god does evil or you do not consider killing ones son as evil.
"Most christians" consider anyone who oppose them as satan, vilification of an opponent is one of the tactics to keep ones followers from jumping the ship.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Tree of Love
Battered and beaten, He walked the harsh course.
Women wailed with sorrow, full of remorse.
"Daughters of Jacob, weep not for me.
My project is to die on the Love Tree."
"Weep for yourselves, and your children's sake
In what I do, only I can partake.
The time has now come, for me to depart,
But great blessings for all I will impart."
"When everything is concluded and done,
They will then know that I am the one.
It was planned out by my Father above
That I alone die, on this Tree of Love."
"Only through my death can life come to you
Obedience to Him is all I can do
I am the Lamb so innocent and free
I'll give up the ghost while on the Love Tree"
Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - Motown2Chitownposted 11 years ago0
Call me crazy, but I think this thread has morphed from a discussion of things Christian to a poetry showcase. Which is fine, except the subject of the poetry seems to be much less the focus than its form and quality. At this point, it should perhaps be recategorized?
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.Deuteronomy 22:28-29
28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
*[[Psa 1:6]] KJV* For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Thanks for the condemnation. It must be feel very good to condemn others from a position of superiority. Such Christ like behavior. Not.
Here you go, SirDent, a thread meant just for you...
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/118748#post2509220
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.Stephen Roberts: When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
Michel de Montaigne: To understand via the heart is not to understand.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
*[[1Jn 1:9]] KJV* If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Blaise Pascal: Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions.
I started to think about that and see if there were any sins I needed to confess and couldn't come up with any. I haven't stolen anything or killed anybody, didn't covet my neighbors ass or his wife...
Help me out here, what sins do I need to confess?You ate that extra potato chip - gluttony.
You kept the dime you picked off the sidewalk - greed.
You have a cross on your avatar - idol worship.
You refuse to admit any of these - pride
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
Good night Hubpages. Psalm 19:1. The heavens declare the glory of God. When I let the dogs out at 5am the rain had stopped, it was 40° and the stars were stunning. Who can make a sky like that?
So it has to be made by someone? If everything has to be made by someone then how made the Guinea Worm? That's a nasty little parasite that serves no other purpose but to torture and maim the less fortunate.
Or perhaps the parasite is considered useless because we don't understand it's purpose. Until recently DNA was thought to have areas that were useless. Then someone discovered the purpose of those useless parts.
That would be incorrect; the guinea worm's purpose is the same as yours. To reproduce yourself.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: - SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. - SirDentposted 11 years ago0
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
This verse of scripture is probably the most well known scripture in the US and maybe even the world. It is so well known that a person merely has to say, "John 3:16," and most people know what it says. Knowing the words that are written and knowing the full meaning behind them is different. Although it is fairly straightforward, there are hidden meanings in all scriptures that can only be seen in the spirit.
God did indeed love the world, and still does by the way. We cannot love God as much as He loves us. It isn't in us to love Him. God sent His son that we might believe in Him. God actually sent the best that he has to offer to us. He put His best on this earth to walk as we walk and live as we live. Jesus was God poured into a sinful body of flesh. Even with being in the old sinful body, Jesus never sinned. This is why He is the perfect sacrifice for our sins.Why again do we still speak of human sacrifices and was there really a sacrifice if he went straight to heaven to be with his father, no his self. Very confusing.
Yep. We could never actually drown God, or rain down fire on Him like He did to us. It seems that you have a disturbing definition of LOVE. How mindless and frightening...
Or whip him. Or shove nails through his hands. Or stick him with a spear.
If it was good enough for Jesus, and Jesus is his child as we supposedly also are, then why isn't it good enough for him?
Yet you believe that unconditional love has conditions attached, that the everlasting love has an expiry date.
I find it interesting that some people attached qualities to their God that contradicts scripture and or make non sense.
There is nothing about the God of the bible that loves unconditionally.
How can a God be described as perfect and yet make us imperfect and become agree about our imperfections?Do you believe God makes a difference between believers and non believers?
Do you believe God shows partiality between believers and unbelievers?
Yes I do, just as a parent shows partiality between his/her own children and the children of others. The love of God is shown in the fact that he gave for all to be saved, whether they accept the gift or not.1 Timothy 2 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
3 for this [is] right and acceptable before God our Saviour,
4 who doth WILL all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth.
Isaiah 46:9-12
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.
10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, “My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.”
11 From the east I summon a bird of prey;
from a far-off land, a man to fulfil my purpose.
What I have said, that I will bring about;
what I have planned, that I will do.
12 Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted,
you who are now far from my righteousness.
So according to Paul God has willed/purposed/planned that ALL men be saved, and Isaiah says that he will do what he has willed/purposed/planned. Why don't you believe him? Do you want to be stubborn hearted and far from his righteousness?It is the will of God that all be saved, but not all will be saved. God's will does not override our will.
Do you recall what Jesus said in John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. If those that do not believe are not condemned, why did Jesus say they are?
Backing up even further, Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again. A spiritual birth in fact.
Now Young's literal translation states, John 3:18 he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Means the same, even with a different word being used.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;' Young's also.
I also noticed you didn't answer my previous question but asked one. I did give you an answer.
If we go back in time, Abraham had two sons. Ismael was his first born son, Isaac the second. Did you ever notice that God never referred to Ismael as being Abraham's sons? Ismael was man's way of fulfilling the promise of God, a child born of a carnal nature. Isaac was the fulfillment of God's promise and is the spiritual child. This in itself shows the difference between believers and non believers along with the spiritual battle that rages in all of us.So God's will does not override our will. Mmm, try telling that to the Pharoah who determined on numerous occasions to free the Hebrews but God hardened his heart. Or Nebuchanezzer of whom God called him his servant to punish the nations even though he thought he was just on a grand tour of Palestine. Then there was Jonah who against his will was swallowed up by a fishy-whale. You think you get to choose your president when Paul says differently:
Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Did Paul stop on the road to Damascus, turn to his companions and say “You know what, I’m not going to Damascus to inflict misery today. I’m going to exercise my free will and choose to believe these Christians. Ooh what’s that light?” Of course not. God looked down on Paul and decided to put into action that which he had planned to do. Within 30 seconds Paul was a blubbering gibbering wreck. Did Paul actually have a choice? I think God overruled Paul’s will.
Proverbs 16:9 In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps.
Looks like God overrules human will time and time again.
As he said he would of course in Isaiah 46.
John 3:18 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
18 he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Look up a dictionary definition of judgement.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin … /judgement
It pertains to sound judgement, balance, summing up an argument and making a decision, punishment fitting crime and all that, not condemnation. Why do you think God instituted an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth? Balance, good judgement maybe? How does eternity on fire balance with a some sins in a short human life?
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God
Well considering that Jesus said the Kingdom of God was near/at hand/imminent/fulfilled and present on Earth at his resurrection, we should not be surprised that those that don't believe would not see it. What do you think the rock that became a mountain that smashed the Roman Empire in Daniel 2 was all about if not Christ establishing he kingdom on Earth 2000 years ago? But you think this is some future event that excludes people.To submit to government does not make the government right. Nebuchadnezzar had confessed God to be holy and righteous before God turned him into another creature. Jonah was a man of God ordained and anointed to preach the gospel. Pharaoh made the decision himself. God allowed his heart to harden.
Men plan their courses on a daily basis. Does not mean God leads them but it means God has the last say regardless of their plans. Paul did have a choice. he could have ignored the Lord and went on about his business, though he may have been blind for the rest of his life.
Jesus is the kingdom of God. He is the redeemer of men. John the Revelator saw the Kingdom of God come to fruition while on the isle of Patmos. The only one of the original 12 that was not reported to have died a violent death.
Do you recall what God said to Cain in the garden of Eden? He said, "If you do well, will you not be accepted?" He also said, "Sin lies at the door." If there is no will or choice, there cannot be sin. If there is no sin, there is no wages for sin, which is death but people die every day.
There is also a second death mentioned in Revelation. If the wages of sin is death, what is the second death the wages of?Nebuchadnezzar was used unwittingly as God's tool BEFORE he acknowledged God thus his will was overruled. Exodus states explicitly that God hardened Pharoahs heart, thus God overruled his will.if God has the last say in the plans of men then God has overruled their will.
You cannot possibly cite Revelation. Nobody knows who this John was, the style of Greek is very different to that in John's epistles. You assume it was the apostle John because of the shared common name. Revelation was argued over for 3 centuries before being voted in by committee which is hardly a ringing endorsement. It also contains Babylonian astrological imagery which you choose to ignore because Jesus gets a mention.I see no point in continuing this discussion with someone who doesn't believe the whole Bible to be the Word of God. Sometimes we listen to what men say instead of actually seeking what God says.
http://christianity.stackexchange.com/q … revelationSorry, we only have man's word as to what any Gods say. And men have been known to lie. Do you think the writers of the bible are any less likely to lie than the writers of the Quran or the book or mormon?
Only if they were Catholic. Or Protestant. Or whatever I happen to be. All others lie, for none are True Christians and are destined for burning.
What makes an Atheist?
Someone who can set their beliefs aside and examine them critically and objectively.
Notice the believers are unable to do that. They won't even discuss it.Of course they won't do that, at least with an atheist. Examination of beliefs with someone that already holds similar beliefs can be quite useful, as the two involved reinforce their own beliefs.
But Atheists are different; the conclusion desired is different from what an atheist wants (feel good as opposed to truth) and the methodology used is different (subjective examination vs objective search). Not only might the believer lose some of their beliefs (and the good feeling that goes with them) they might end up looking hard at ALL their beliefs, and that is something that is simply not to be tolerated.
Looks like you're listening very intently to what a man has to say in that link.
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. -- Leviticus 20:23
And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. -- Leviticus 26:30
I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more ... yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:15-16
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. -- Malachi 1:3But Jesus did away with the OT. Or at least the parts we don't want to see, and these certainly qualify.
Away with them! File 13 for Malachi, Hosea and certainly Leviticus! (after we check and leave in the parts we like).
Hey guys, I'd like to introduce you to some of your fellow believers in Creationism. Aside from a slight detail or two on who the Creator was, they believe exactly the same thing you do! Isn't that great? You have allies!
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Rev_21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. - SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Isa 41:10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.
Isa 41:11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.
Isa 41:12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.
Isa 41:13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.
AMEN!!! - SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
This same Jesus will come back in like manner. Not a different one, not in a different way. - SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Max Lucado quote: “"God loves you just the way you are, but He refuses to leave you that way. He wants you to be just like Jesus."
I love Max Lucado. And I like that quote. He does love us all no matter our failures or successes. Thanks for sharing that.
Really? God loves us, but not enough to leave us alone; he wants us different. Presumably he will love us more that way.
Guess it's all in the translation...He loves you enough to give you His best, even if you reject it. When Jesus was on the cross he said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." The Roman soldiers were gambling for His cloak at the foot of the cross at the time.
So Jesus asked the Father to forgive the sinners, did he answer his request with a yes? Let's assume that Jesus asks in accordance with the Father's will, so the Father answered with a yes. Did the Romans and assorted sinners ask for that forgiveness. No. Soooo, the Father forgave unconditionally without requiring the Romans and sinners to first say a sinners prayer. So we have a presidence here, the Father forgives at Jesus request with no requirements upon the sinner to ask for it or indeed for the sinner to believe in him. Sooooo why do you contradict the will of the Father by adding strings to the gospel; why do you say Wilderness is going to hell when the Father has already forgiven him unconditionally?
All sins are forgiven. Not all are going to heaven. Jesus said, "You must be born again." To be born again means you become something you never were before. There is a change that will take place when this occurs.
Did John the Baptist not preach repentance? How about the old testament prophets? Did they not preach repentance also? Stop letting pride get in the way of salvation.Jesus said to Nicodemus that he must be born again to see the kingdom of God, NOT that he would go to heaven. The kingdom of God was established by Jesus upon the Earth all around them, and yes to see it, to do the miracles and the things Jesus did and greater things, required being born of the spirit. It was not about going to heaven. Do you do greater things than Jesus did?
No I don't do greater things than Jesus did. More people have been saved since Jesus went back to Heaven than when He preached. Who saw the Kingdom of God? Out of all the disciples only one lived long enough to see Jesus come into His Kingdom. That one disciple is John the Revelator. He saw Jesus come into His kingdom while on the isle of Patmos. Stop twisting the Word of God to make it mean something other than what it means,
If Israel needed to repent in the Old Testament, people still have to repent today. God has not changed nor has His Word changed.
Satan knows the Word better than any of us do. He also twisted God's Word to make it seem to be right for Adam and Eve to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Stop letting the devil use you.John the Revelator who believed in babylonian astrology?
The same satan invented by the church who according to Judaism does not exist?
The same talking snake that wasn't a snake but the yetzer hara?
No one is twisting scripture except those who say unconditional everlasting love comes with conditions and expiry dates, and who believe Jesus's mission was an utter failure.I used to think you really understood but I can see that you don't. Love of God is unconditional. Salvation is not. I have no desire to even discuss anything with you anymore. I pray you find the real truth before it is too late. Universal salvation is a doctrine of hell, which was mentioned by Jesus a few times, just so you know.
Too late for what? To escape Hell?
Why is Hell such a scary thing? You're not going to take your body with you, so you won't have any nerve endings to be subjected to the fire and worms and whatnot. That also means you won't have your eyes or your brain, meaning you can also neither see nor experience anything in Hell.
The only feasible punishment that could actually affect you is the whole "separation from God" schtick, but without your brain and thus your consciousness, would you even care?
See also: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/119021I spent 25 years in Pentecostal churches, I understand your point of view full well.
You think Jesus talked about hell, a pagan myth, when he talked of Gehenna, the Hinnom Valley, and as you have no understanding of its cultural reference to the jews, you have no understanding of what he was talking about. You look at Revelation, and fail to understand the cultural meaning of brimstone so believe the LofF is a place of punishment rather than healing and purification. You fail to spot the connection between the four living creatures and astrological star signs. You throw a word around like satan and picture something invented by the church in the 4th century rather than what Jesus would have had in mind; the satan being something utterly different to a jew.
You have a closed mind as you will not question what you believe, and the origins of those beliefs. You will not even consider an alternative point of view. You are blind and naked, lost in a plastic fantasy of centuries of church spoonfed indoctrination. Why am I wasting my time with those that choose to be blind because of peer pressure from their church and fear they might 'loose their salvation'?
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
We are to be like Christ in all ways. We are to have the mind of Christ. Christ showed the faults of man while yet maintaining mercy and grace toward them. This is what the "Real Christians" need to do.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!Happy New Year to you too SirDent.
Whatever happened to Brenda Durham? Werent there other Christians on this site too? It seems like people are disappearing. Seems like plenty of the same anti-religious people gracing the religion forums with their presence.Brenda was banned from the forums a few weeks ago and decided to leave HubPages for good.
I imagine those non believers who stay in these forums just like to argue. Of course, only they can give the real reason as to why.Phoenix, Brenda is fine. There where those making it their business to complain constantly about Brenda's candor when sharing her views. Rather than retool for political correctness in hopes those who were already bent on silencing views they don't approve of might back off, she understandably chose the "shake the dust from your feet" approach. I suspect if Brenda felt it was a level playing field she may have stayed, but the "squeaky wheel" banning approach made a campaign against her successful, so what would have been the point of prolonging it? She chose to pull all her content from HP and go.
Aware of all this, others may be more reluctant to speak freely. Myself, I am far too busy to hop on the merry go rounds so I limit myself to a comment here or there, for the most part. There is one conversation on another thread I still want to try and find time for, but I learn a lot just seeing what others say. I am sure the same contingent aligned against Brenda doesn't mind my frequent silence.
Edit: Sorry for the redundancy...there was quite awhile between when I started to respond and when I submitted, as I was drawn away. After posting I saw Sir Dent had already answered you, but decided to leave my understanding posted anyway.I am glad that Brenda is fine. It did however become apparent that she was displaying very un-christ like ideology full of hatred and bias and it was rather hard and painful to watch. That's all I've got to say about that.
How embarrassing and cowardly if the things you say are true.
Phoenix, I am not sure what to make of your response. Is it in regard to just the portion you quoted, the entire post, Brenda's choice, those who may be reluctant, or your perception of my actions. Clearly we have a misunderstanding but I am not sure if I'm missing your point, your missing mine, or a little of both.
Phoenix was speaking of those who constantly complained about Brenda, reporting her every chance they got.
I missed Bereans post but yes. I think Brenda was a strong person utilizing her free speech and was silenced.
Gee, the story I heard was she spread hate speech, was banned, and stomped off like a petulant child.
All perspective I guess.Hmmm. Not what I said, but I can see where it is what you took away from it...which brings us to:
Indeed, our perspectives differ on a great many things including political correctness with it's one sided agenda to silence opposition. It served it's intended purpose in this case, and I am sure there are many who celebrate those victories. Congrats.But, what I explained is exactly what would have taken place, the mods banned Brenda and she left. Your story appears like complete fiction.
How so? Your superficial overview is accurate, she was banned by the mods, and chose to leave HP. We don't disagree there. Imagine.
I was merely commenting on the over-melodramatic view you offered that appears quite fictional.
That which was over and above my superficial view.
You mean that folks were reporting her? How do you think this works? HP has a staff at the ready constantly moderating in detail all the forums, or they respond to reports? Either way, how you view it makes no difference any more than how I view it does. At least we found a nugget to agree on today.
Yikes, I am sorry if I stirred up an obvious hornets nest. You ok?
I think a thousand people could have reported her and, if she said nothing that broke the forum rules, she still wouldn't have been banned.
I am sure this is true. I never said I thought HP did anything that was not in accordance with the application of their own expressed rules. I wonder if I hit report on all of your postings would I ever get a hit that got you banned? Don't worry, I don't recall ever hitting the report button, and likely won't. I set that up as qualified because I do remember thinking about it once, but I don't think I actually followed through.
I'm sure you would find a post or two that would get me banned... mostly because they got me banned
. I never complained about it, I was fairly sure when I was writing it that it would. I didn't blame the person that reported me, it was my fault for writing it in the first place.
That's what personal responsibility looks like. Knowing the rules, then knowingly violating them if you feel it's worth it, then knowingly taking the consequences that were easily foreseeable.Agreed. I was banned once, and expected it. I knew who was going to do it, (not the person who it was addressing), and why. I disagreed with the interpretation required to make the ban stick so I figured they would report it and it could go either way as to what HP did with it. You don't get to argue the point, so you just have to accept it even if you don't agree. Either way, I was not surprised. I also suspect, (based on dialogue from others in some exchanges), that I have been reported more than that one time, but it appears HP did not agree with the reporter in those instances.
There's a difference between not being politically correct and hate speech. If you don't know it, then I can't help you.
Hard to keep up with shifting definitions selectively applied by one side of certain political and social issues, particularly when you hold the tactic in disdain, so your correct in that I am probably not up on the latest refinements to this tool.
It's like this, I'm certainly not politically correct. I am excessively blunt and will tell you exactly what I think... HOWEVER, I will never resort to racist or homophobic slurs. That's not because I'm politically correct, it's because there's a line (Also, because I am not that kind of person, so I wouldn't think to say it). That line was crossed. PC has nothing to do with it.
It doesn't explain who silenced Brenda. In fact, she wasn't silenced at all, she left on her own free will.
Free speech doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.
Brenda exercised her free speech. Her free speech violated the forum posting rules of this environment because they were considered hate speech and personal attacks - several of which she made to me, personally - although I never bothered wasting the time reporting her. As a result, she was banned from the forums, and she threw a tantrum and left hubpages altogether when she realized she was NOT free to say whatever she wanted FREE OF CONSEQUENCES.
A person's right to free speech does not mean that they do not have to endure the consequences of the speech that they express. She was not persecuted off of the forum. She was made to adhere to the same rules that the rest of us have to adhere to if we want to remain here.Sounds good in theory Julie, but one side of many issues is much thinner skinned and quick to report issues than the other. If everyone were moderated consistently there would likely be many more bannings, but HP doesn't appear to be equipped for that level of policing which leaves the "squeaky wheel" process to rule. Folks making a point of hitting that report button every chance they get are rewarded.
You wouldn't know that unless you saw the reports yourself. You also don't know who gets banned here, for how long or the reason why. So, there's no reason to make up that conspiracy theory.
When Brenda went missing I corresponded to make sure all was okay with her. Feel free to assume what others do or don't know.
A correspondence to Brenda does not make you privy to the reports such that you can conclude a conspiracy theory.
and do you think that she told you the complete story - untainted by her personal bias?
the squeaky wheel?
Let's talk about Free Speech, Berean.
If you walked into your office on Monday and called your boss the n word and the f word (derogatory word for gay person) would you think that your free speech had been infringed upon when you lost your job? Would you claim that you had been persecuted when you lost your job? An individual's right to free speech does not negate them from personal responsibility when it comes to following the rules.
I myself have been banned from the forums by things that I don't find the least bit like a "personal attack". But I don't throw a tantrum and leave. I wait out my time, come back, try to be MORE careful about what I say, and learn my lesson. I see so many people here get banned and then come back outraged that someone had the audacity to report them - and that person is responsible for them losing their posting privileges temporarily - and take NO responsibility for what they actually said at all. I've had other people tell me that they're reporting me for something that wasn't a personal attack at all - and I never got banned. You can report anyone for anything, but if the reported post actually DOES break the rules, expect to get punished for it. It's really simple, actually.
I'm reminded of another story from the last few weeks. Someone was on an airplane headed for Africa, and tweeted a comment about the fact that they hoped they wouldn't get aids...then added "I'm just kidding, I'm not BLACK".
She lost her job. Yet I don't see Christians up in arms over HER right to free speech.
I find that a lot of fundamentalists have a problem distinguishing from free speech and free consequences. Like when the whole Chick-fil-a thing happened. When gay people and others decided to boycott Chick-fil-a, the Christians were up in arms, because the owner's free speech was being persecuted - yet Christians boycott tv shows, commercial ads and more. They don't seem to see the hypocrisy in their actions and their outrage. Don't you find it the least bit comical?It's all pretty simple and I certainly understand what is free speech as well as personal accountability, the right of businesses to have their own rules and consequences for what you say. I also understand that in a system based primarily on reporting to draw attention to issues, even if red and blue cross the line, if only one side makes a point of reporting, and particularly if they pick a target to illuminate whenever they feel the line is crossed, they will get their desired result, ergo "squeaky wheel". Your right, those on the side most likely to get reported should certainly be aware of this and be all the more careful for their indiscretion is not likely to slide by unnoticed. None of this is news. This just came out of my giving my understanding of events that transpired leading to Brenda not being here, in response to a direct inquiry regarding why they had not seen her in awhile. I get that people don't agree with my assessment. Not sure why all the "Hub bub".
I'm not really trying to make an issue out of it. Just having a conversation about what I see as hypocrisy, in the long run.
Even though I have been banned, I sincerely doubt that with very few (if any) exceptions that anyone can point to a post of mine where I called someone a name - as in "you are a moron" or "you are an idiot" or "you're a racist homophobic bigot". Do I say some of things about someone's behavior or statements? Absolutely. Criticizing the substance of the post but not the poster does not constitute a personal attack.
i see a lot of Christians on HP (and from what I've seen, the Christians FAR outnumber the atheists, agnostics and "others") see a personal attack in every statement - even where one doesn't exist. There is a definitive difference between criticizing a belief as opposed to criticizing and insulting the PERSON behind them. I try to be respectful. Sometimes that effort doesn't work. But I don't resort to calling the PERSON names. As a result, I've only been banned ONCE. I rarely, if ever, hit the report button - and I've never done it on behalf of myself. I do it only rarely on behalf of others - even Christians.
A lot of people here seem to have a persecution complex, and they view every criticism or disagreement on a personal attack on themselves, and cry foul. I've had one Christian tell me multiple times that EVERY SINGLE POST I've ever made to her is a personal attack, yet I've never been banned for any of them THEM, although she's also said that she reports me constantly. Conversely, I see atheists constantly been called names by Christians with little to no action on behalf of the moderators. I guess that two people looking at the same exact thing can draw completely opposite conclusions. It's unfortunate, but until people are willing to meet in the middle and develop a thicker skin (on both sides) I don't see it changing.
If these forums were the only example of "christian love" that I had ever seen, I wouldn't have a high opinion of a lot of Christians. Thankfully,in my life, I've seen much, much worse - so I don't let it get to me.But you don't have a high opinion of a lot of Christians, or at least not a lot of them here
Mr Deepes Mind I was wondering about the previous posters statement
"and from what I've seen, the Christians FAR outnumber the atheists, agnostics and "others"
On the first page of this one topic, how many are Christian and how many are not, based upon what you know or based upon how they responded to the OP.
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/118740To be honest, I don't currently have the time to scroll through all 62 pages to do an actual head count, but based on the first ten pages and the last few pages the count is 11 professed Christians, 7 professed atheists, and three professed agnostics. (I say professed because this is how they identify themselves. I personally think the agnostic count is higher and the other two counts are lower, but still uneven in favor of Christians)
*Edit - if we look at frequent posters, the count is still in favor of Christians though some Christians are debating other ChristiansI counted one OP christian and all the other replies non Christians on the first page.
your count was 11 Christians to 10 non Christians?
Would you consider that "Far out numbering?Sorry, i misread your initial question. The first page count is 2 Christians, 6 non based on the answer and my knowledge of the posters. But if you look at the totality of the overall thread based on my earlier numbers there is not a vast difference, but still a difference nonetheless
I am interested in some of the people you categorized AS Christian, but I wont ask. I do not want to know. Its not necessary.
I have no issue telling you. It depends on how you define Christian. One unfortunate thing I realize is that there are different definitions even amongst Christians and this is usually related to who wants to be the most correct while condemning others definitions
Edit- I used the term "professed" on purpose because I don't like to speculate often on who is or is not Christian. I feel that this is up to God alone and not us*gasp* You mean there is a bit of "one-up-man-ship" or even (shudder) "I'm better than you" in what constitutes a "true" Christian? Who woulda thunk it?
I long ago decided to take the word of whoever is speaking. Let them declare, for themselves, whether they are Christian or not, but not for anyone else. Because, after all, it means nothing to me anyway. They can all label themselves anything they want and it affects me not.
(Although I do get a giggle when some Christian tells another Christian they aren't a "true" Christian. )Yeah I scratch my head at the use of Scotsman as well, especially when it is directed at me because I see more of people than their religion (or lack thereof) enough to be friends in spite of that one difference
I know. I see it pointed at you and a few others as well. Melissa, and Mo come to mind. I always feel a little bad about it, that you are treated so rudely about something so important to you, but all of you recognize that it does far more to the speaker than it ever could to you. So I LOL and move on.
It doesn't totally bother me. It confuses me sometimes how some would biblically rationalize doing something that the Bible tells us not to. Its amusing to me too. Its even funnier when those same rude people cry foul when someone biblically points out their wrongs. But I have also come to understand that some are only taught certain parts of the bible as being the focus. This is not a condemnation of them or their teaching. It is a simple understanding of how they arrived at their beliefs based on my own earlier beliefs.
Seems to me that some of it is simple rudeness (fairly rare, thank goodness) with the rest simply being an incredible amount of egotism. "I know it all, you know nothing" kind of thing. I guess when belief is so overpoweringly used over reason that's kind of inevitable; there is nothing to talk about any more as the belief overrides anything anyone else might have to say.
A shame as I (and I think others) learn so much more from you three than all the egoists put together. They can be so off-putting that I just ignore. That or use their words to point out just how silly they sound in the insistence that they have the only correct view of reality.To be fair, part of this is because of the strict OY teaching that is done in a lot of churches. Organized religion has made Christianity to be more of an exclusive club than something accessible to all
Part of this (IMO) is because some of them treat their beliefs as the totality of who they are and are unable or unwilling to separate their feelings from their beliefs and as such cannot stand to be questioned
I was also considering variables like for instance the OP, who has not posted in 4 weeks and also who is a regular here and who is not. But that could work both ways I guess for non Christians too. See what I mean?
I see what you mean. I also consider some of those variables as well. Unfortunately in that consideration, I also have to factor in denominational teachings
I too was wondering if there could be someone that is Hindu or Muslim or other religion and I based my count on the content on their reply, which could be indiscernible regarding whether they were atheist or agnostic as it might appear the same, if that makes sense
It does make sense. But typically Muslims and Hindus also make sure their faith is professed as well. Even in the absence of that there is still the difference in the count of religious believers that post outnumbering atheists. I see the difference in the frequency of the posters as well as the arguments themselves thay make a difference. For example, I have witnessed one Christian be dismissed as non Christian because they chastised another Christian for their behavior. I have even been accused of not being Christian by other Christians even some on this thread as well as the other one you mentioned
My thoughts were centered around the discrepancy. I see the OP as a Christian. + 1 and all the others non christians. You say there are two +2 Christians on the first page. Its not a true scotsman thing. I am just curious to who I missed.
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/118740Sorry. I wasn't accusing you of using a Scotsman. The other professed Christian is Disappearinghead. He doesn't tout it out like others do, but he is a universalist similar to Melissa
Edit- this again is based on my knowledge and understanding. As I explained on the other thread I try to understand the people I converse with as it makes communication more effective. I believe in seeking to understand others before seeking to be understood myself. It makes it easier to adjust and focus my approach in as non offensive a manner as possiblePerhaps you can understand why I would miss that, since he believes some of it is "made up" and refers oddly to Christians as if he does not identify with them, kind of in a way.
Disappearinghead.wrote
No John made it up. Look at the four living creatures: one man, one lion, one ox, one eagle. Now look at the stars or an astrological chart; you will see on opposites sides, one man (Aquarius), one ox (Taurus), one lion (Leo), and one scorpion, or as the Babylonians interpreted, an eagle (Scorpio). John was looking at the stars and following Babylonian astrology fancied he was seeing god type creatures. I'm amazed Christians are so blind to Johns rip off of astrology.
Not only that but the church argued for 300 years about including Revelation . Anyway, and thus John and Revelation have lost all credibility.I understand why you would miss that. Universalists view hell as a pagan manmade myth and as such believe the doctrines of hell to be false. He does not identify himself with other Christians because of this belief in hell. His belief is that salvation is a done deal because of the death of Christ that paid the price for sin. Given the behavior of some of the Christians here, I am sometimes reluctant to identify myself with them because I don't wish to be grouped in with them based on behavior, to be honest
It depends. There are different areas where I like and respect a majority of Christians here. The separation cl.se in where some appear to steady from the teachings of Christ in their behavior. The Bible says we are to love our neighbor as ourselves. Looking at how some Christians treat others here, I feel bad for them because it wouldn't seem lime they like themselves much. The other thing is the misapplication of the golden rule
So, you would not like some Christian just because they treat you well, but turn a blind eye to how they treat others. You base your like of them on their behavior in it's totality. You would never align or identify yourself with "christians of whatever flavor" that were "just for a hypothetical" terrorizing a weaker brother or sister, but as long as they like you, they are good to go? You would not do that?
No.. liking a certain behavior is not related to whether I like them or not as a person. As it relates to my Christian friends here on HP (of which I really have a relationship with two outside of HP) I tell them when their behavior is getting too close to the edge of what could be deemed offensive. Sometimes they listen sometimes not, but we do show enough respect for one another to tale it into consideration. I try to promote understanding between both sides of a debate(such as my explanation of DPH to you), but not everyone desires understanding. Some just want their point made and accepted
Edit- but there is some behavior that I have seen that is so unchristlike that it embarrasses meI see that you try to promote dialogue. I really do. But as you say, your personal friends show you mutual respect and that is your consideration.
ROFLMAO!
I am one of those personal friends. I don't show anyone any respect. Seriously, if you think what I say on these forums is bad, you should read how I talk about all of you -including my friends- outside of the forums.Not entirely. There are others here who I have a mutual respect for, but do not have a relationship with outside of HP. But there are some who I cannot and do not respect here because of the extremity of their views and their application of those views on others even though I respect their right to act that way. That's like respecting someone's right to their opinion without respecting the opinion itself. The key here for me is in making sure people at the very least understand each other and the topic even in disagreement and the golden rule applies. One thing that I can't respect or agree with for instance, is when someone throws out a lot of personal insults and does not show respect for others then cry foul when they aren't shown respect. A person cannot or should not demand that which they are unwilling to give themselves
Me? If someone put to me a hypothetical of whether I would choose to stay loyal to my personal friends while they terrorized another human being, well, I would not be worrying about how others were wording posts or what denomination they are.or golden rules or respect.
It would be interesting to know which of his friends was terrorizing another human being.
Part of that friendship is in telling them when they are wrong. I consistently tell my friends not to stoop to engaging people that have insulted them and to rise above it. Doesn't mean they listen to me. But also doesn't make them not my friends. I have on several occasions defended others from my friends. Unfortunately, those same people I defend have turned on me because I am friends with their "terrorists" (so to speak). Which is another story altogether.
Edit- I'm not sure what you mean by terrorize another, perhaps you could clarify a littlehow do you define "terrorize"? I don't see myself or any of my friends putting fear into other people. At the same time, however, I see countless believers seem to revel in the fact that I'm going to be tortured in hell forever for my non-belief. Is that not terrorism? Attempting to evangelize through fear? How are any atheists, whether they be friends with Deepes or not, terrorizing believers?
Somehow, I don't think this is limited to just atheists.
you know, for all of my time on HP and other forums, I have never once seen an atheist threaten a believer with eternal, inescapable torture. That is terrorism.
I've seen believers do it numerous times - often with great glee.
Terrorize:
create and maintain a state of extreme fear and distress in (someone); fill with terror.To be fair (and purposely antagonistic... lol) for some an eternity without god is inescapable torture, especially if it's in the idea that God may not exist. So by telling the. There is no god is terrorism in itself for some
Never mind. I forgot I can't use abstract thoughts when you're drinking, though it is fun to...lol
In other words, reality is torture for those who wish to escape it.
If you think that is true, you really haven't been paying attention.
Deepes and I are friends, yes - both on and off HP. But he is the first one to call me on my behavior if he feels it steps over the line. I may agree with him, or I may not. The fact that he may or may not respect me as a person has nothing to do with his treatment of me. We disagree on a lot, and we have had several arguments.
Arguing with someone doesn't have to be disrespectful. Name calling is not respectful. insulting someone or insinuating that they're less intelligent than you because they disagree with you is disrespectful. I am completely open to have a conversation with ANYONE who treats me with respect - and I will show them that same respect in return. Having a conversation with someone who does nothing but make assumptions about you because of how you choose to label yourself and doesn't give a crap about what you actually SAY in favor of those baseless assumptions is not productive - and it's not going to lead to a productive conversation. I try to steer clear of those people because it's simply a waste of time to try.
On these forums, I am open about my educational background, and my background in the church - but I don't expect to be automatically respected because of them. I believe in human decency. In order to get respect, you have to give respect first. Sometimes you have to be the bigger person and ignore assumptions made about you to make a point - and sometimes, you have to recognize the fact that attempting to be the bigger person will go unnoticed, and that any attempts made will be fruitless and meaningless considering the audience.
Disagreeing with certain interpretations of the Bible isn't really a dismissal of the Christian faith. Not identifying with other denominations CERTAINLY isn't a dismissal of the Christian faith... or there wouldn't be any Christians at all.
I don't believe in Hell. That's not a dismissal of the Christian faith nor does that make me a non-Christian. It's a difference in doctrine, that's it.
I wasn't talking specifically about THIS thread. I was talking about HP in general. But I'm curious why you would respond to my post and talk to Deepes, and not just ask me. I could have easily clarified, and it seems a bit silly.
He actually replied to me. He was using your comment as a reference point to ask another Christian a question. Either that or he recognizes that I'm the smart one of us two
Aha, now the story comes to light, quite different than what we're led to believe was a story of conspiracy campaigns, persecution and censorship against Brenda.
Ah, then you are blaming it on the forum moderators who banned Brenda? Did Brenda then leave because she got banned from the forums? That would be an issue between Hubpages staff and Brenda, then. Nothing to do with anyone here.
How would anyone know that other than the person receiving the reports?
Its obvious that all you say is accurate. Its been 2 weeks since you posted. Did you get Brenda Durham'ed too?
Have you give away all that you owned? Do you walk the streets in a Toga? Do you preach to random groups on the streets and roads? Do you ride a donkey?
Most importantly, have you trained your mind to do things like change water to wine or feed multitudes with a handful of fish?
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. - SirDentposted 11 years ago0
1Jn_1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Temp was in the single digits this AM, so I am kind of cold but even when cold, I am blessed by the best.
Indeed it appears that you are blessed.
I was just reading this
Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.Wisdom comes from above. Gamaliel, Saul studied under him he was truly wise.
Long ago Mr SirDent encouraged me. The verses made me think of that.
Saul was called the pharisee to the pharisees. This showed how much respect the pharisees had for him. He was most likely chosen to become the high priest at some point in time, that is until he went off the deep end and met Jesus, face to face.
I don't recall encouraging you Phoenix but I try to encourage fellow believers all the time when I can. I hate not seeing the brotherly love that some "believers" have for their brethren.Yea, it was a couple years I guess. You said- dont let them get you down or something to that effect and I appreciated it.
Not sure what everyone is so upset about. Chalk one up for PC. I said congrats. Some know more than others about this, especially those with a hand in it, but to quote some people's hero, "what possible difference does it make at this point?"
It is what it is and we each take something different away from it based on that perspective Melissa was talking about.- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
- Deepes Mindposted 11 years ago0
There is a fine line between being strong with a view and being offensive. I think part of that line depends on the values, perception, and thickness of skin of the person making the viewas well as the person looking at it. What one views as pperfectly okay another may view as offensive. Usually, people that stand up for or against the offensiveness for themselves are deemed to be too thin skinned or as willfully offensive. Those on the outside looking in and trying to bring clarity to the situation are dismissed as being part of a gang, or "typical" representative of a specific group. Where does it end? I'm not going to comment on Brenda's departure or my feelings about her because she isn't here anymore. She made the decision to leave and that's that.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
(2Ti 3:1) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
(2Ti 3:2) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
(2Ti 3:3) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
(2Ti 3:4) Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
I believe these times are now here.These times are indeed now, with all those sinners.
Just as they were 100 years ago, 1000 years ago and 5,000 years ago.
Nothing has changed. Some men are covetous, unthankful, fierce, traitors, etc. Always have been and will be for the forseeable future.But, those verses speak only about a very small minority of people, and they speak about that minority existing back then and today. For the vast majority of people, those verse are irrelevant.
- SirDentposted 11 years ago0
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love,
There are other fruits but love is the best and first.
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