Google Update rolled out yesterday
Where did you get the stats indicating those producing "sound original" content will be okay? And define "okay" in the context of online writing?
I am not upset, Tony. But when an article of mine on another site draws many more views than one here which has much more in depth information, and even more explanatory photos, not to mention many compliments for being the best info on the net for a particular subject, it tends to make me wonder.
ah! okay - I see your point. Apologies, I haven't read every submission to this thread. The question I would ask myself in such a situation is whether or not the other site was as badly slammed by last years panda update, when HubPages generally took a nose-dive, from which it is still trying to recover fully.
Quite frankly, when I'm looking for info I start with Google, then go to Wikipedia, and if those fail, I come scrounging around on HubPages. There is an enormous amount of untapped info here, that is just not getting found on ANY of the search engines.
I really don't think the "fault" is yours. Google developed a problem with HubPages last year, and it will be a while before HubPages can regain it's good standing with Unca Google.
I cannot see that happening soon, as even though there is a wealth of good fresh sound and relevant content here, there is also a toilet load of junk - until Hubpages can find a way to eliminate the obviously spun, over spammy, and blatant commercial (read self-serving) content, Google will penalise HubPages.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion only.Your are correct in you assessment of HP, Tony. They allowed some horrible articles to be published here, many of them spammy and misleading. Those of us who endeavored to publish well researched and concise hubs were punished along with those who didn't.
This one reason I cannot put much faith in the new changes we've been experiencing lately. This and the latest contest fiasco does nothing to inspire faith in TPTB, but this is merely my opinion, as always.
No problem with your assessment, however. No one else appears to be anymore knowledgeable about what is going on than you or I. Guessing seems to be the best we can do at this time.
When my traffic took a sudden drop a while back someone gave me a bit of advice. They said "as long as you create quality original content you should be fine. Those losing traffic can only blame themselves and HP will be better off after everything settles down a bit". I cannot remember who it was, though.
There you go then, Paul! Start writing "superior quality articles" and everything will be just peachy!
No more than you did concerning mine and Izzy's accounts a while back, Paul.
Thanks for stopping your suggestions, Paul. I promise to do the same for you.
Yes. Paul did mention that Penguin didn't seem to have an effect, but he didn't mention the latest Panda rollout. How can anyone look at the Quantcast report and not see that there is a problem???
Pre-Panda, the site's traffic increased as the amount of hubs published increased. Makes sense.
You can see the Panda dip and the recovery from the switch to subdomains. Then it all goes wonky. I mean, the last two months have been the worst the site has seen since it launched if you take into consideration the amount of new hubs published during that time period. If you follow the upward trend pre-February of last year, you'll understand where we SHOULD be right now based on the tens of thousands of hubs (or more) that have been published since then.
My traffic is up with this latest algorithm change, but I can still see that there's trouble in paradise. So can HP. Even their staffing is down. I could be wrong, but it looks like they've lost roughly seven staffers. And when you have less than 30 employees to begin with, that's a lot.Wow! I wish they had let me pick the ones to go!
Long Post Warning and Apologies (but I've been keeping a lot of this in for a long time now)
PG (but also everyone else), the pattern in that graphic looks almost as if someone did a graphic about my own "hovering averages" patterns (patterns - not figures, of course ). Something I've noticed on so many of these "traffic-reporting" kind of threads (where people say what's happened with them over "x period" or recent days; I've noticed that most of the time what you've described with your own ups and downs have gone right along with what I've seen over the same days. Our Hubs are completely different from what I've seen; and yet every time I see who's had increases, decreases, etc., and see that you've posted; I've pretty much come to expect to click on your post and see you say something that I would have said for that day/period (if I were going to say anything ). It's often a case of a thread where a lot of people are talking about one change in traffic, you'll come on and say something to indicate that your traffic pattern has been different from what a lot of others have said, and then I'll think, "Oh, well. He pointed out what's happened with his traffic is different from a lot of the other people on the thread ." So I don't post and "just say the same thing".
In any case, while I've been thinking all along that there's a very good chance "someone" just doesn't think my stuff deserves traffic (and in a lot of cases I'd agree with that, particularly since the months after Panda made me pretty much stop caring "what Google likes" (beyond just TOS-compliance); I can't help but notice that a lot that's gone with my own patterns/averages is something that doesn't appear to be very unique (to say the least) on here these days.
I've considered that HP's latest aims/ideas about what a Hub should be/include may have outgrown my particular Hubs/approaches. I've considered that I might be "paying for" disabling all comment boxes but those on the most recent Hubs. (Besides the "activity factor" that's not very "community-minded-looking", I know. I've considered that I more aim for "unique" (but non-fiction), rather than "strictly informative". I've considered any number of things that I do with either my Hubs or my "Google authorship name" that I could be "paying for" (but I don't do "spammy" or "adsy-only" or anything that makes a page look horrendously ugly, and my grammar is decent).
I can see that the immediate post-subdomain rise in "hovering averages" (mind have always been fairly good and fairly stable) could have a been a flash-in-the-pan kind of thing; but the continued and seemingly consistent drop since then (even if gradual) has me thinking that either I don't belong on here (if I don't "shape up" and make major in changes in my ways) or else that something's going on that isn't particularly a matter of just my one subdomain.
I can account for some of my income loss that resulted from some shifting around of what earned most pre-Panda. I can account for some knowing what's been copied (and remains out there). I suspect getting rid of that "top Hubbers" page stopped some of what may have been undeserved views from people (within or outside the site) who weren't particularly looking to read. From a "legitimate readers for everyone" standpoint, I think it's fair enough that the page is gone.
Since I haven't been doing what I could have been doing to bring more traffic to my stuff (that's been one of the advantages of having stuff on this site), I know I could shape up and MAYBE/PROBABLY increase my traffic some. My thing, though, has been to wonder if, even if I started backlinking up a storm how do I know that won't backfire when it comes to "what Google likes". I've always assumed that one of the things that may have been helping me since Panda is that I don't "write for search engines" and don't do "all the usual" in an effort to bring traffic other than organic traffic.
I'm not particularly looking for answers from anyone here because I don't think any of us really has them. I'm just saying what my own dilemmas/questions are. I'm not going to make any drastic changes to anything for now and unless I figure out that the traffic decrease is my own fault. If it's something across the site that has little to do with some of the things I do, I really don't want to get into a whole cat-chasing-tail kind of deal with 300-plus Hubs and whatever else I do under my Google "author identity". I just don't want to work harder at guessing, only to keep earning less and less. I can accept/adjust to lower earnings and be happy enough that whatever Hubs I have earn whatever they do. It's the high-guessing-factor I don't want to deal with.
I think aiming to do what Google has said it's looking for, and aiming to do what HubPages has said it wants on the site ("content-rich, magazine-style, articles) is often, but only sometimes, a matter of "serving two different masters". Last year "Panda" rewarded people who wrote "decent enough" stuff. In that year, I think HP has developed its own aims for itself, and I don't think producing "decent enough writing/ideas/information" is enough on this site any longer (if it ever was in the first place). I think last year solid writing was being rewarded on here after the Panda slap was lifted and subdomains "happened"). This year lack of videos and other stuff is going to go unrewarded (at least to some extent). HP is differentiating itself from some run-of-the-mill "content farms", but the confusing thing for Hubbers can be that we're told that content-rich, magazine-style, articles are what to aim for; but then things like fiction, poetry, and whatever else are still allowed. We can all pretty much guess why. What makes things more confusing, however, is the thing about not really being able to figure out whether this is a "writing platform" or a "social site" - or what. Basically, the deal (for both HP and Google) is "forget about trying to please search engines; aim to get traffic to the pages we'll put ads on by socializing (and socializing and socializing). Making videos and socializing aren't what a whole lot of writers are awfully interested in. So be it and too bad for those writers - but it is confusing, regardless of the kind of Hubs/writing individual Hubber originally had in mind.
Either way, Nature will take its course (yet again). It (and we) will all come out in the proverbial wash. A lot of people have been feeling like they're in the spin cycle a little longer than they prefer.
I could be completely wrong (and I'm not someone who knows anything about, or analyzes, site-wide traffic; but I can't help but think what we're seeing is a lot of people who once got traffic getting discouraged and leaving; and a lot more who have stayed not being "actively encouraged" to keep doing things the way they've been doing them if they haven't been coming up with "content-rich, magazine-style, articles". My thinking has always been that not every piece of writing in magazines has lots of glossy pictures (and magazines don't have "movies" in them at all); but I can understand why HP would like to be "more than a magazine" by also offering videos with articles. It's all fine. I think this is a nice enough site. I just had to finally express some of the dilemmas/frustrations/questions from my own standpoint. Whichever of my guesses above are correct, incorrect, or a little of both doesn't really matter. It's obvious HP isn't going in the direction of "words-only" material from writers who are here to write, rather than get "all involved" in socializing. I'm finished thinking about my HP traffic and earnings. They are what they are. The spin cycle has slowed way down and come very close to a stop for me. Who and what gets hung out to dry remains to be seen. Hopefully (one way or another), no one.I've reached more or less the same stage in my washing cycle as you Lisa
I'm not really very good at socialising for socialising's sake (which is where the Internet in general seems to be heading, never mind HubPages), and I don't fancy making videos - although I can see one or two niche subjects where making videos might be a useful thing for me to learn.
Plus my views are going down and down, and with them my earnings. How much of it is down to Google and how much to HP's recent redesigns, it's hard to say.
Boy am I glad I don't rely on HP to make a living.EF, I'm amazed that anyone even read even parts of that "longie" post; but it feels to good to know someone else apparently can identify.
This isn't my main income either (although I do rely on what I earn here and need it). If I didn't, I think it would be right about now that I'd start playing tennis in my spare time instead of writing. Read it too, Lisa. I feel much the same as you. HP has changed its goals into something I'm not sure I wish to be part of anymore, as have others, apparently.
No kidding, Randy! And I suspect we both would have made the same choices.
And I would wager we are not alone, Irohner! Sometimes I wonder if actual humans are running this place.
I'm not sure if this helps...
Did u draw one for the panda last year?
Yes. That was part of my earlier 'work' where I put more effort in. As you asked, and thanks...
Haha cool
Something to smile about thanks
Btw how's your traffic? I guess mine's doing fine.
Cool
Mine has quadrupled from what it was in March.This is better...
Haha
What about the lion and frog too on the logo
+1 Izzy! My traffic plummeted as soon as I switched over to a subdomain here. Almost all of my tens of thousands of backlinks were organic in nature, so I assumed they appeared to be generated artificially because my former aged articles now seemed to be brand new as did the backlinks. So actually, HP themselves caused much of the losses in traffic by requiring us to switch over to subdomains.
Do that, Will. I assure you it will be more productive and certainly more respected, than your condescending posts.
None of the above, Will! Instead i traveled down a river in a very remote part of the countryside and made videos and photos instead. I also battled a few alligator gar in the process and watched a few giant alligators watch me.
Flowers and walks I'll leave to you. Butterflies, ponies, and rainbows too, for that matter. Thanks for the suggestions, but clearly your interests are a bit tamer than mine.
Be careful of those big gators, Randy - some of them can be very condescending!
So true, Paul. Especially the brown nosed snapping gators.
Fortunately, what they normally swallow they usually throw right back up in its entirety at a later date.
I need SOMETHING, but I don't think it's tea or chocolate biscuits. Traffic-drops discussions don't make the best way to spend the early part of a Sunday.
(Such a sobering reality after a Friday night and a really nice, Spring, Saturday.) Dorsi, I have no idea what to think either. I tend to suspect, at least with my own stuff that's connected to my domain and other "Google authorship" stuff, I may have - like - two different "perfect storms" going - one within my sudomain and the other "everything else" linked to me, as an author. There are a few things I do that aren't at all "funny"/questionable but that might call for my taking steps with some of my non-HubPages stuff. Google's webmaster stuff tells people who do some of the things I do what they may need to do as far as settings go, and I haven't (at least until now) see reason to "get all into that". I don't know many "points off" from an author Google does or doesn't take from people for the stuff they do under their "author name" but on places other than their HP subdomain..
Even if that's not a factor with my HP account, I think if I'd address some of the non-HP-stuff issues I might be able to make up for any decreased traffic on HP (but basically, I remain clueless about any number of things. )
Like this newspaper shop in Benidorm?- Marye Audetposted 11 years ago
0 Fortunately - "they" will be weeded out soon enough. Far as I can tell - there are no easy options left. When the dust settles, there should be less competition.
*Should* being the operative word.
Sorry Will - writing product comparisons of products you have clearly never touched is against google's guidelines.
Personally - I adapt. That is what we all need to do and my advice was about adapting to the new reality. What has worked for the last 5 years no longer works. Simply because too many people were doing it. Now you need to adapt.
I have always despised building crappy fake links, but it worked. I also despise people who write product reviews of products they have never touched. That is also coming to a close. Rehashing other people's opinions in the hope of an affiliate sale will not work for much longer. Google have stated they are targeting these pages and - I think - this is why there is so much collateral damage with this update. They will refine it I am sure. Then hopefully we will have less parasites. Or at least - a few big parasites.
Not sure why you are so angry at me for telling the truth. At least I could offer some advice instead of regurgitating what I heard some one else say. To each his own skill set, I suppose.
"Great potential to do harm"? Classic. If by that you mean - "stop working at some point" then I agree.
Trust me - your faux product reviews (sorry - comparisons) have great potential to do harm.
Sorry about all the smileys - sometimes you really are very funny.Affiliates are not selling anything and in the case of the type of pages we are discussing - offer no value whatsoever. They are simply another form of webspam. Which is what this update is (supposedly) targeting. How many "best riding lawnmower" pages out there? 3 million.
They are greedy and want the commissions for themselves.
The site as a whole does not seem to have been severely affected. how many hubbers stats do you have access to exactly? Or are you just basing that on a few forum posts?Yes - those companies are morally corrupt. Not sure what that has to do with it. I never mentioned morals. The sooner you understand that Google is your competitor for affiliate commissions, the sooner you will be able to adapt to the new reality.
I never said anything about google targeting keywords that have been used before. I simply pointed out that there is a lot of that garbage out there. If you think a faux product review can outrank 3 million other pages - go for it.
I am in the business of scraping a few bucks off Google as it goes by. I do it by effectively building authority and traffic using links and other methods, in the hope that google won't be able to tell the difference - you do it by writing product reviews for articles you have never touched in the hope google won't be able to tell the difference.
I also worked in retail/sales, and there is some justification in the comparison.
However, there are good and bad salespeople in retail - the worst read from a pre-prepared script and obviously have little knowledge of the product. The best appeal to every emotion and make you think that their product is something you simply must have.
In the online world, Will's droll, tedious, recycled sales Hubs are the equivalent of a bored salesperson reading from a script.
A skilled writer, on the other hand, can use words to add texture, depth, and flow to a product review. They can make people believe that they have intimate knowledge of the product, even if they have never actually seen it.
That's the differenceI don't normally knock the work of others, but I do become irritated when somebody on a writing site constantly denigrates the hard work of others, yet possesses limited writing ability.
I think you are right - the conversational approach is a good one, especially when it is married to the warmth and honesty that underpins your writing style and voice.
You could try our very own Mark Knowles, for a start - I actually looked at this Hub a couple of days ago, so it is fresh in my mind:
http://mark-knowles.hubpages.com/hub/Fi … h-headsets
As for other HP writers, Sunforged and Frogdropping are just two of the other writers I admire. Two different styles, but their work makes me think about parting with my hard-earned money. They know how to sculpt with language.
To be fair, it is only the opinion of one person, but Will's work does not move me in any way whatsoever. To me, it appears that he has no knowledge or experience of the products he writes about, and there is little passion or emotion behind the words. Such things lie at the foundation of good sales writing.
Will is a big boy with a lot of robust opinions, and he is happy to throw out plenty of thinly-veiled insults - I am pretty sure that he can fight his own battles
It is skewed, but we were discussing only a single technique - there are many, as you pointed out. When I write sales articles/letters for clients, I often know very little about the product and base it entirely on research. No problem with that if you can convince the reader that you have some expertise in the subject. So I sort of agree with you on this - every salesperson has a preferred technique built upon their own individual strengths
I think that the worst sort of review is one that is written badly. If there is no passion, honesty, or authority behind the words, then it is a bad review, IMO. Sales writing is about more than just bolting words together or using perfect grammar - it is about using voice and flow.
The best strategy is the one that works - I use a number of different techniques, depending upon the product type and the target demographic. Most of all, I try to give my clients what they want - they are the ones who pay me for the work, after all!
It depends upon what audience you are aiming for - if you are after impulse buys, creating a 'buy it now' mentality is often the way to go. If you are trying to build up an authority site, other techniques may be better, as you say.
I also worked in stores, where I tried to build a rapport with customers and used soft-selling techniques. On the other side of the coin, I worked in telesales - in that environment, you had to convince people instantly, or you lost the sale.
Providing useful information certainly helps, but the best sales writing requires a little more subtlety and consumer psychology
You're both too old to understand SEO.
Nuff said.Send money.
Response to this below.
As you apparently are too. - or, maybe not plenty, but certainly at least one.
Okay, so asking a question in an attempt to understand your attitude towards WA's writing style constitutes fighting his battles for him? I thought I was trying to find an example of a product review that would fit the description you gave.
It seems to me that it boils down to"different strokes for different folks." Like you, I base a lot of my reaction on this important question: Does this review make me think about parting with my hard-earned money?
But I have a couple of other questions too: Does this review make me interested in a product I have not known about before? (Will's did) and, Does this product change my mind about something that I actively dislike, like a Bluetooth headset? (Mark's did not.)
As much as I love Dorsi, and as much as I like and admire Mark (and I do, despite our public battles), the product review Hubs of theirs that I have read crossed the line from review Hub into blogging-about-products. They are both quite successful Hubbers, so there are obviously a lot of people who like that style. It doesn't speak to me.- No argument on that score! I certainly can be a cantankerous, opinionated Northern lad.
That is true, as I mentioned to j-u-i-c-e above - everyone has their own preferences. A lot of it depends upon what you are looking for - I have been actively looking for a bluetooth headset, so Mark's review hit the spot. It wasn't a cold sale. If I was based in the US, I would happily have followed one of his links and made a purchase (Sorry, Mark).
I have written very little online sales copy aimed at people with your last two questions, because very few people 'accidentally stumble' across a product they have never heard of or actively dislike. In my experience, that is the domain of mailing lists and sales emails.
As a consumer, I am very rarely swayed to buy products that I did not know about before - that is probably because I write for a living, so I am far too cynical.
When I write sales copy, all that I am interested in is making sure that my clients make plenty of sales. That's the joy of being a writing mercenaryLancashire born and bred, but I now live in Greece. Much better weather and food
I rarely bother with HP or passive income, nowadays. It is much easier to write sales articles for clients and let them worry about the marketing, promotion, and penguins.
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