Any particular feelings about this seven-foot statue of Satan, with angel-wings & adoring children?
This is a depiction, by the Satanists Temple, of the statue which they propose should be (and may be) erected next to the monument of the Ten Commandments at the Oklahoma State Capitol. Do you like it, dislike it, or are you indifferent?
Are you OK with the adoring children as part of the monument? If so, why? The statue, by the way, depicts Baphomet, an androgynous creature.
No, I do not like it. It's disturbing. It's like seeing a Nazi symbol on the American flag--the goat with horns and children just don't mesh well together. It's like having broccoli with chocolate syrup--not a good duo! And by the way, Satanists should know themselves that Satan does NOT love children. Or anyone, for that matter. Satan is only using humans to stick it to God--people are pawns in Satan's game--he doesn't care about us, and we shouldn't care about him either!
Funny you should mention the Nazi symbol. Satanists use the SS symbol in their churches. They are also inordinately fond of swords, which they hang all over their church headquarters, for whatever reason. Thank you for commenting, Lybrah.
The swastika is a very old symbol which came out of Eastern traditions (e.g Hinduism, Buddhism) and generally has a very positive meaning. Satanists using it does not have anything to do with Nazism.
Nevertheless, junkseller, the swastika remains an offensive symbol in this modern day, and Satanist must know that. Frankly, I wish they'd get a life instead of annoying people for fun.
I'd agree, and I wouldn't use the symbol here, though, it is still widely used in places like India. I haven't seen any evidence that this particular group, The Satanic Temple, uses it. And I don't think they are doing this just for fun.
junkseller, LaVey used the swastika in his rituals & in his home. Whether it is used regularly today, I don't know. I got that information from a book entitled, The Devil is a Gentleman. Interesting reading material, by the way.
I can't claim to know much of anything about Satanism, but LaVey seemed to basically be a hedonist. The Satanic Temple, in contrast, seems to be legitimately concerned about humanism. To me, humanism is defensible. Hedonism not so much.
Broccoli with chocolate syrup? Sounds great to me.
Seriously, it is no more offensive to me than posting the 10 commandments on state property in a secular country. That is, neither should be there. Sorry if that offends you, but one of the founding principles of the U.S. was to allow freedom of religion, which also means that no single religion, even if it is one practiced by the majority of the population, should hold special sway in public areas. I'm always surprised by how narrow-minded Christians are, in general, with respect to other religions' rights to exist.
How can you say to allow this to be put up when the Ten Commandments are being taken down all across this country because they offend those who do not practice Christianity? Is this the direction in which you want this country going in?
True, Penny. What many citizens fail to know is that out country was founded upon Judeo-Christian principles, not other principles like Satanism. Thus, displaying the 10 commandments is not inappropriate & is reflective of our laws & basic mo
savvy... they KNOW this but would die before they would admit anything of the sort. They choose to ignore this was once a great country because we were blessed by God and formed as a Godly (Jehovah) nation.
JThompson, I'm not so sure the average citizen understands how the Bible has greatly influenced all of North America. Historians speak about how grossly ignorant the general population is about these historical facts regarding the Bible's influence.
Casimiro posted a correct comment.
A wild gaggle of weak minded Bible-Thump'ers appeared!
Bible-Thump'ers used imaginary "facts" to claim they aren't mentally deficient.
Bible-Thump'ers died off because the strong humans quit being drug down by them.
Patrick..... you just joined HP a little over an hour ago and now you are trolling calling people names and belittling them. I suggest you use this site as it was intended to be used. Get involved or get out!!
Honestly, I actually find it kind of hilarious, but then I have a twisted sense of humor.
My first thought was that the children should be wearing Slayer and Venom t-shirts and making the "devil horn" hand sign....
FatFreddy, I agree that the statue looks kind of silly. Having the children there is just plain dumb. The Satanists say it's to honor children,
It's obviously a gag. The so-called "Satanists" can't possibly expect this t actually be built, they're simply trolling and having a laugh.
Ooh Slayer 'tees - nice touch! Maybe model the face after Harvey Keitel? And make the boy child look like Adam Sandler!!
Harvey Keitel would be be cool but I was kinda picturing Gabriel Byrne, who was a great Devil in the flick "End Of Days"
It's sick that Satanists think the general pubic is stupid enough to accept something like that. They know that their agenda is pure evil. Some have stated that one of their goals is to eliminate as many humans as possible and human child sacrifices were made to this idol in the past. Why celebrate something that is anti-human. That's illogical. A more truthful and accurate statue would be one of a bloodied and battered child being sacrificed to the idol.
The general public is pretty ignorant. Like those who think this group actually worships Satan. Exposing that ignorance (along with hypocrisy) is their point, so congratulations.
You are correct--Satanists really worship man--It is all about one being his or her own god, which is the pride that led to Satan's downfall. In the end, it just brings about ruin. But if you're not with Jesus, you're against Him.
Junkseller has a point. Primarily, Satanists claim to be exceptionally carnal. They're big on rituals involving sex, swords, coffins, chanting.... Lately, they're getting more involved in politics.
Interesting that you should remark on hypocrisy, Junkseller, when LaVey plagiarized a significant portion of the Satanic Bible from Might is Right/The Survival of the Fittest.
As far as I can tell, the group in question has no connection to LaVey at all and their apparent agenda and ideology are significantly different.
Anti-humanity isn't totally illogical when you consider the damage we've done to this planet as a whole. Someone who loves life is probably an optimist, while someone who hates life is a pessimist. I would call this perspective, which negates logic.
I find it very offending!! Satan is the ever present sign of "Evil." This country was founded as a God loving, respectful nation and should be kept that way.
I'm not a religious person either way and androgyny does not bother me. But I would be a little annoyed if this statue were erected in public simply because it's ugly and terrifying for children. It belongs as a gargoyle high up on some 1920s art deco skyscraper. But I'm not worried about it being put up in OKC and I don't think that it will ever happen in Oklahoma. Oklahoma is a Theocracy so devoted to the monotheistic worship of the jealous "sky god" of Israel that its politicians erected a monument to the 10 Commandments of Moses at the State Capitol (the First Commandment of which states, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"). Since the state government of Oklahoma has made clear its position on this subject (ignoring the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights), I would never think there would be a statue of a demon put anywhere near the Capitol.
Even if they managed to get this statue built, it would probably end up vandalized/destroyed within the first day anyway.
Old-Empresario. I doubt the statue will be placed in the OKL capital, but the subsequent lawsuit that Satanist will file will mean that the 10 commandments may be removed, which is their goal.
I personally think the "new" McDonalds carryout bag is terrifying, and I am 20 years old. Oddly enough, a statue of a goat god is less terrifying to me.
Link10103, you're right - that carryout bag is ghastly!
It should be understood that the Satanic Temple's ideology is really just humanism. They don't actually worship the devil or believe in it as an entity of evil, nor do they have an interest in committing evil. This, for example, is the first of their 7 tenets: "One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason."
Baphomet has been around for awhile and has meant different things to different people but is perhaps best understood as a symbol of balance, not unlike yin-yang. That is why one hand points up, the other down, and why he/she is androgynous, though, this particular statue doesn't appear to be androgynous. In many depictions Baphomet has female breasts. This one does not (probably because female breasts are more horrifying to some than are goat heads and pentagrams).
The head represents the sinful, animal aspect of man, while above the head rises the flame of intelligence, this duality again expressing the conflicting elements of our existence.
I don't mind the symbol of Baphomet. I don't particularly like this depiction. The children being thrown in is clumsy and probably is just to annoy people even more. Should it be at the state capitol? No, but neither should the ten commandments.
And for people worried about the scary imagery, it seems to me that you can walk into many Christian churches and find a statue of a guy nailed to a cross who is bleeding and crying. That's pretty gruesome, no?
And really, why should anyone object to Baphomet, a creature with a goat-like face, topped by a pentagram, one hand up, one-hand down? After-all, it is just Uncle Sam.
The man dying on the cross stands for our redemption and grace. While it is gruesome, it's meaning is completely a different story.
Of course, but your willingness to see past the gruesomeness to the deeper meaning should be extended to others.
junkseller, your synopsis is true of the popular meaning of Baphomet. It is also true that the depiction is representative of Satan, according to Lucien Greaves, spokesman for the Satanic Church.
Maybe, but for them, Satan as the anti-Christ, means to be against the supernatural. It doesn't represent the supernatural evil opposite. It is the rebeller against arbitrary authority (e.g. imaginary gods).
Given that Satanists (at least LeVayan Satanists anyway) don't actually worship Satan, I find it bizarre. When Satanism is basically worshipping oneself as a God, rather than worshipping a God - a better statue to have as an idol would be a mirror.
Something better to put up alongside the "Ten Commandments" to balance things out would be the Satanic Laws - basically the Satanists version of the Commandments - the one I recall is along the lines of "don't annoy people, unless they annoy you, then you have the right to annoy them back" (basically put - I'm not a LeVayan Satanist - i'm agnostic and curious about all faiths - I just haven't looked into LeVay lately to remember all of them) Basically Satanis
Do I find it offensive? No. Would it offend me if it was placed somewhere and enforced that it must be the only religious symbol allowed? Yes, it would. Just as it offends me that the Ten Commandments are insisted on being the ONLY thing placed anywhere.
I'd actually prefer the Ten Commandments, The Satanic Laws, the laws of the Quran, Bahai'i, Buddhist, Hindi, etc etc etc to be all equated the same respect - if you are going to add the Ten Commandments to a State property, then you need to add all. Churches, Synagogues, Temples etc are welcome to have their own "Laws" in pride of place on their property, but property owned by the Government of a country should not be siding with ONE religion over another (PARTICULARLY in a country with laws governing separation of church and state, or a secular country).
jlpark, the commandment is: If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy. As for having all religious symbols, it would get crowded. Christianity has influenced the underpinnings of American life, thus the 10 commandments.
Ah that sounds familiar. Thanks.
That's my point - if you aren't going to have all symbols don't have any - particularly in a country founded on freedom of (and from as the case may be) religion. And on government land
No, I don't like it at all. It looks abnormal, like it shouldn't be on public display anywhere. Lybrah said it very well and my thoughts exactly. I voted her answer "up".
If a religious symbol is going to be publicly showcased at a State capitol, I'm all in favor of religious diversity; however, I also think that the worshipers of Baphomet have a right to be downright p*ssed about the whole thing. Baphomet is not "Satan". It'd be like putting up a statue of Anthony Hopkins to represent Odin or a statue of Willem Defoe to represent Jesus. The "Satanists" that pushed for this statue are no doubt having a good laugh about it, but I think they are more likely just anarchists than true Satanists. Not that I think much of Satanists and their exploitation of the inverted pentagram, but I think most of them are intelligent enough to know the difference between their conception of "Satan" and Baphomet.
But...but Anthony Hopkins was a totally bad-ass Odin!!
Good point, bethperry. Satan and Baphomet are not the same. The picture I used is an actual drawing by the Satanists meant to represent Satan, who looks very male & not androgynous.
FatFreddysCat, yep, that be very true!
savvydating, yeah, you're right. Mr. Buff there, lol.
To be perfectly honest it doesn't bother me. I will admit that it must be quite an unsettling sight for children and pensioners, but as someone who grew up with devilish rock 'n' roll muic and horror films I can't really say it bothers me too much. In fact, I wouldn't mind a personal statue of it just for the sake of decoration. If Satanism was accepted more and the general public were even taught about it, maybe this kind of thing could be allowed 30 years or so from now, but at the moment I don't think people are ready.
I think this should be done gradually. Having a gigantic statue of a winged humanoid goat embracing two children is quite a leap. Maybe a statue depicting Baphomet playing an acoustic guitar, before moving onto him opening up an orphanage and then one of him working as an coffee-shop assistant would be better! But of course I'm just making light of a somewhat dark situation.
This is very disturbing. It appears to be trickery at its greatest. Our children are tempted so often these days- As we were when we were growing up. All we can do is try to be there and be very supportive and teach them the right way. Other than that, we can hope they will make the right choice and not be tricked into something bad.
I hear you. Stange that Satanists call themselves something they say they don't believe in. Weird. I'm pretty much over the whole moral relatiavism thing. It twists the truth, and that is what I find disturbing.
The reason they call themselves Satanists has been outlined at least a few times in this very thread. I find it strange how you don't understand when all I had to do was google the name. Had little to no prior knowledge of them either
Link, nothing has been outlined here, except to say that not all Satanist are LaVey Satanists. BTW, I looked for the God Exists forum you mentioned, but couldn't find you...Satanist, according to Google, are more or less hedonists with a cause.
I dont understand why you replaced "religion" with "god" when I very clearly said religion. Also, I highly doubt you will be able to find your comment easily. The forum is pretty inactive now, but there are about 40 pages of comments to sift through
Lol, Link. Sorry I "replaced" the wrong word. Sheesh. It is true that I do not keep up with forums. After awhile, they're just one big downer, so I may have missed your question. I don't remember. Have a good night.
"Do you think all religions past, present, and future have, had, and will fail because they have not adopted Christianity?". You refused to answer several times, called me an atheist (funnily enough I'm not) said I had fun starting fights and left.
The statue itself does not bother me, you see worse things on television these days to be honest. True Blood anyone?
There is no evil message that is being depicted either, it is Baphomet supposedly teaching children something. What you infer Baphomet to be teaching is probably solely determined on one's own religious beliefs and biases. No one looks to be in pain, I dont see anyone being decapitated, so as far as I see it nothing is offensive about it.
What I would find offensive is that their statue is outright declined to be placed next to the commandments. It has nothing to do with spreading "Satan's" message and derailing Christianity, since I am pretty sure the people of the Satanist Church do not even worship Satan. The point they are trying to get across is that if one religion is allowed on government property, all of them must be allowed. To say that the US was founded on Christian principles holds absolutely no water here, because if that is the way one wants to go then that is basically admitting you do not wish to have ANY other religions outside of Christianity at all and we are right back to where we started with leaving England and its religious persecution.
In short, no there is nothing offensive about it. Even if there was, unless it depicts dead children and such it is still considered a religious/belief monument and has every right to be erected just as the 10 commandments do, provided they can gather the funds to build it.
The Christian Bible and the 10 commandments specifically, have affected the underpinnings of American Society and it's laws. This is why we are so cognizant of what is fair. It's a historical fact, Link.
And what I am saying is that means absolutely nothing in this instance. Religious freedom is a right in the US, Satanists have every right to erect a monument of their beliefs just as much as Christians do their 10 commandments. Constitutional fact..
Sometimeswhat is fair and what is right are two different things. I think many of us are all missing the forest for the trees, Link.
Do you actually plan on saying things that pertain to my comment at all? Or are we back to you avoiding the topic and claiming religious superiority like you did in my forum? If one religion is allowed, all must be allowed. Constitutional obligation
Much of the Satanic Bible is plagiarized from the book Might is Right. Might is Right supports ideas that are against those protected by the American Constitution. Satanism, despite the attempts at PR, is anti-human.
Link, I asked the question and I respect your right to feel as you do.
JT, it is said that parts of the bible are plagiarized from ancient Egyptian texts. Pretend that is unquestionably true, Christians had no problem creating a new story with new meanings from said texts, so why arent Satanists allowed to do the same?
Link, that is not true. Who told you that the bible was plagiarized by other ancient books?
Do you not know what the word "pretend" means Lybrah? Or did you not get past my first sentence?
What forum, link? What did I say to offend you? As for Lybrah's statement, it is accurate. The Bible has the most reliable texts. This is due to the fact that Judaism took it's education, historical facts & written content very, very seriously.
Most reliable texts? I shall simply say I disagree on that one and leave it at that. I didn't say you offended me Savvy, and it was the forum asking why religion needed to exist that you excused yourself from without answering my questions to you.
So you didn't get past the first sentence. Good to know.
Link, renowned non-Christian archaeologists and historians such as William Albright, Nelson Glueck and Joseph Free have confirmed the Bible's historical accuracy. The plagiarism of LaVey is clear for all who compare Might is Right with his text.
Link, as for the forum---I recall that you wanted a yes or no answer, which is the method lawyers use to "entrap." I gave you many excellent answers, for which yes or no would have been inappropriate. I saw no point in going round and round.
I am totally against all of it. I dislike it. Just looking at the goat/ram head and its eyes turns me off. I would say that the children are too innocent to do that on their own and were somehow something like hypnotized to follow it. My guess is that it was an angel which was sent to hell which accounts for the wings, unless they are phony.
Satan is not like that. He actually possessed a very good looking face, Because remember??? he was an angel before, who wanted to become more than God and be call as God.. he want to replace God. Satan have all the good things that people are seeking that's why a lot of people are easily captured by him. Human only see the negative side of Satan, that his bad.... but do you ever wonder why he had a lot of followers??? because his so attractive to man==beauty, money, luxury... he can give you all of that with a simple thing but an eternal mistake--that is you need to praise him more than God... Satan knew that the time is drawing near so he will do his very best to get as many as followers as he can so that he'll not be alone in the lake of fire..
I find it horrifying. And I'd like to say this to those who say Satanists don't actually worship Satan / Satanism is worship of oneself as a god / it's just humanism: that is exactly what Satan wants. His end game isn't to have people worship him, but to have them believe he doesn't exist. If there is no heaven or hell, Satan or God, there are no eternal consequences for sin. He claims souls in this way.
By my interpretation, I would say the focus of this picture is the children. If a person is offended by this, I would guess it's because they feel guilty about the way they are raising their children, which they should! This speaks volumes to the way we raise American children. When I look at this image, I see a little boy and girl sitting indoors on a beautiful day playing violent video games and eating sugary food with no concept of self control. Isn't there a bunch of sinful behavior going on there? Maybe that's still up for debate, but allowing this behavior should feel wrong, and I think it does for a lot of people. I think seeing this sort of statue built would help a lot of people wake the **** up about how they raise their kids. Stop being offended by this and ask yourself WHY you were offended.
The forces of evil are surrounding us in all manner of ways. Through the Orwellian distortions of language in our press, to the alteration of the Sleeping Beauty tale by Disney whereby Maleficent (Baphomet as a female?) is almost warm and cuddly.
Blurring the lines between good and evil, as producers have done with TV shows like 24, is seen as a good thing by those who want to manipulate the public and to divide us.
I find it creepy, disturbing, funny, boring and understandable.
All we really can do is to teach our children and our friends to wake up to Love (not egoistic lust). Love is never self-concerned and always unconditionally generous.
But we should be just as disturbed by Creationists and other believers distorting Truth to fit their own agenda of egoistic divisiveness. They are being evil, too. Because all evil comes from ego -- separateness and self-concern.
One supposes they offer such a statue up for placement next to the Ten Commandments IN ORDER to offend, where as the placement of the Ten Commandments was never intended to offend, but to edify.
I am of the belief that state/government institutions should allow ALL religions to erect temporary holiday symbols and/or permanent religious symbols or they should allow NONE.
Obviously, if you allow ALL, that would include Satanists, even though I do not believe they intend to edify the spirit (as any other religion I am familiar with, including Baptists and Wiccan, does), but rather intend to harm. That, however is indeed a personal belief, not necessarily shared by others, including Satanists, therefore we should include them as well, or exclude them with everyone else.
I also include the religion of Athiesm, because frankly, I know few Athiests who aren't actually reacting against religion, typically Christianity, and acting like a religious group in the process.
So, our public spaces might be very busy indeed, what with Christmas, and Hanukkah, and Navatri, and Eid al-Fitr, and Samhain, and so forth.
Imagine the good fortune of government workers - all the holidays off when the facilities would be closed to business!
Well in my opinion Satan nor God is a goat therefore this is a false impression of those who worship it. Satan was a beautiful angel that did not like that his God put humans ahead of him. The Ten Commandments are common sense as we do them weather we know or worship them or not. Many do not adhere to them though and that is where Jesus came in and said for us to treat others as we want them to treat us and to love they neighbor as thyself. As far as symbolism goes, everyone has a symbol of what their beliefs are. It doesn't bother me at all. It's just a symbol.
Hi Lady Guinevere. It looks like everyone is evenly spit on the subject of this symbol (of Satan). Absolutely, Jesus said to "love others." At the same time, he was no stranger to reproof either... so the question is, when does a symbol become more?
I didnt see this. When ppl put their focus on things that is when the symbol becomes more. Jesus said God's kingdom is within us, not outsd of us. Worshiping Idols is not listening to God within the blame game begins division creeps in.
Well, I do know that you admire Jesus, as I do. I still wonder, "What would Jesus say." After all, he had to deal with the devil, exorcise devils & he always "defended" his Father's commandments...
Jesus said all the laws were put in our minds. WE know. In God's kingdom resides evil, good, Jesus, Satan, Heaven and even Hell. Do not worship idol (outside of ourselves) No Other Gods (ppl) before us. No graven images (tempt to worship them).
Ok. Thanks for commenting. I'm not a Gnostic, Lady G, but I do believe that Jesus trumps evil.
Who said I was Gnostic? Who said that I do not believe in Jesus? YOU did.
Lady G, If you re-read my comments, I said you DO believe in Jesus. That's one of the things I like about you. If you're not a Gnostic, that's my mistake. I didn't mean to offend you in any way.
Not offended. I just do not fit into any label. Same here. I don't wrshp any symbol no matter if it is small or very large. As for evil and Satan..no such things. Not understanding is all that is.
I understand about not fitting into any label.
The ancient serpent called Adversary and Satan finds his home among the orthodox Christian religionists today and in the academic chairs of our colleges and universities.
"Satan himself is being transfigured into a messenger of light. It is no great thing, then, if his servants also are being transfigured as dispensers of righteousness" (II Corinthians 11:14-15). That "righteousness" today is manifest as Evolutionism, Marxism and anti-Americanism.
In Revelation 2:13, Jesus connects the "throne of Satan" with the altar of Zeus in Pergamum, thus inferring that Zeus represents Satan. Zeus's lightning bolt identifies him as a "messenger of [false] light." Zeus's statues and vase depictions are noble and exalted in character - nothing like the ridiculously unwelcoming image above.
Orthodox apostate Christendom pushes the idea that one must believe in a philosophically concocted mysterious trinity of coequal "persons" by an act of so-called "free will" or be tormented endlessly by God Who is referred to in Scripture as "Love." Ultimately, then, the god of orthodoxy inflicts more evil and pain upon mankind than Satan ever dreamed possible.
The orthodox unscriptural "mysterious trinity, hell, free will" doctrine annuls the evangel of the grace of God given by the risen Christ to Paul for the body of Christ, and places all who adhere to orthodoxy into "the trap of the adversary" (II Timothy 2:26).
The True God has a glorious "purpose of the eons" whereby He will, at the consummation of the eons, reconcile all humanity to Himself through the blood of Christ (Colossians 1:20).
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