Proof that Satan is worshiped by world leaders
It cannot be more blatant than association with a pentagram.
Which looks like...
Which reminds me of...
Which reminds me..............
to ask you to take your drugs regularly!!Funny this topic is so obvious still people blindly say no it cannot be true. Funny as well a little box above me is telling me "Please DO NOT reply....".
I just actually started the same forum topic however mine is a bit different. The little box says don't reply unless you have something new and I do. My idea is simple. Insects flying blindly through the night will upon seeing a light fly blindly into that light which will ultimately destroy them.
That sounds familiar with people who follow demons. Funny how it seems that only insects and people seek out such destructive light. Yet when we point this out a few people crawl or buzz out of the woodwork to say how dumb and wrong we are. Well as I say I am not the one who holds a Satanic Doctrine so find those who do and tell them not me.
The issue is typically these people are sitting alone in the dark in front of the bright computer screen never truly seeing the reflection in that screen which would show the demon on their shoulders covering their right ear and whispering in the left ear. Good topic keep up that old age fight.Funny this topic is "so obvious"??? yet I can't seem to decipher a single comprehensible point out of your four-paragraph rambling. Maybe it's the demon on my shoulder scrambling the words — but this is nothing but word salad.
Hey Claire, did you lay awake last night thinking of this stupid topic or did it come to you in a vision?
And did you lie awake thinking that denial is the only way to cope in life?
From where I stand, that was a valid question. But, to the question.
You used leader in the plural. This simply shows that you want to believe Obama is evil. He's one guy. Or is it your argument that he is Legion?Actually the world is full of satanists, especially during Christmas time!
What I don't understand is how my five year old niece started worshiping Satan, she always wanted the five pointed star, and never liked the ones with more arms. The power of Satan!!@jomine what world especially jesus's operating zone needed was not saviour but good scientist...had they had access to television, computers or something better to do....world would have been save from look he is coming themes....
@claire denial?....hmmm....or denial that what u say is not what it is..
Should you care to tell me how it really is. Please explain why the Republicans are associating themselves with a well-known Satanic symbol?
The pentagrams that the Republicans associate themselves with has raised a lot of eye-brows and was even picked up on the news TV network.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB8DTd5Di3E
By denying the existence of evil, one is contributing to it's power and suffering. Is that something to be proud of?
We have been raised in a society where he are trained to think and act in a certain way. We are programmed that digressing from these mind-controlled thoughts should be ridiculed and scorned because we haven't been taught to believe it can be. It's the herd instinct and most people can't think for themselves anymore. When people come across things that are horrifying, and I'm sure no one, including myself, wants to believe that the world is run by Satanists, then they automatically block it from their mind. It's the brain's way of coping with distress. That is why trauma-based mind control happens. Something so traumatic happens to the victim that they just compartmentalize it and cannot recall it until triggered.
Jomine sarcastically posted a picture of an upside star as an attempt to refute me but he actually cemented by case. An upside pentagram is just as Satanic as an inverted one. The word "star" comes from the moon goddess Ishtar and that is why her brother Baphomet has one on his forehead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisbOL55 … re=related
Can you provide any credible documentation for that?The key word was credible, but I should have been clearer and instead should have written scholarly.
"Babynamesworld" - ? Whoaaaaa.... Well, I couldn't access that one for whatever the reason, but I have doubts about how far to accept its version of word derivations.
In any case, the wikipedia source did not state that the words for star derived from Ishtar. Judging from the little that I have seen so far, it's possible that Ishtar's name came from the Sanskrit word for star - the reverse of what you claimed. More research is needed.Apologies much. I didn't mean to cause inconvenience.
http://www.goddessaday.com/mesopotamian/ishtar
Sigh. This says nothing about which word derived from which, or even if one did come from the other. There are several scholarly sources that might interest you as you conduct your research.
(1)
The Asia Minor Connexion: Studies on the Pre-Greek Languages in Memory of Charles Carter. See the article by Eric P. Hamp, "Indo-European *HaHs- with Reflections on Hittite 'hearth' and 'star'."
Good quote from this article: "Allan R. Bomhard[4] is surely right that the etymon of English star and its derivatives is common Indo-European, and Diakonoff's objection to a Semitic origin seems to me (a non-Semiticist) well-founded[5]."
My paraphrase: Scholars who spend their lives studying the origins of words don't precisely agree on this etymology - and we are looking at baby name sites and goddess-a-day lists for corroboration?
(2)
"On the Etymology of Ishtar" by George A. Barton, published in the Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 31, No. 4.
Good quote from this article: "In whatever way the meaning is to be explained, the evidence, philological and religious, points to an etymology from the root [Arabic stem] as a term connected with irrigation." One possible meaning of Ishtar was "self-waterer." My paraphrase: This has nothing to do with star.
***
The goddess-a-day site claimed erroneously that a couple of the alternate names for Ishtar gave rise to the words harlot and whore. Here's a scholarly article (written in more everyday language than those preceding) that gives some more enlightening and accurate insights:
Grammar and Gender [compiled] by Dennis E Barón. See the article by A. S. Palmer, "Etymologizing Man and Woman."
Good quotes from the article: "Harlot, a word that originally meant 'a man of no fixed occupation, vagabond, beggar, or rogue,' and later developed the sense 'entertainer' as well, referred only to men until the late fifteenth century. It is traced by Onions (1966) to medieval Latin arlotus, 'glutton,' and is first used to mean 'prostitute' in 1475, appearing frequently in Bible translations as a more polite rendering of whore."
Finally, a great quote for everyone to remember, when it comes to etymology:
"Influenced by the popular notion, which goes back to the Greeks, that language is transparent, and that spelling and pronunciation are certain reflections of origin and meaning, many writers were easily convinced that words which looked or sounded alike actually were alike. Frequently, though, the apparent similarity of words led to folk etymologies that reinforced absurd notions already in place." p.27 [Emphasis mine.]
***
Sorry that I couldn't provide links. Each one is about four lines long, and I couldn't copy all of that accurately. For more information, just run a search for these titles in Google Scholar.Let's put it this way. Do you think the goddess Ishtar got her name from the word star? She is Venus, the morning star and evening star. Do the algebra!
There are examples of English words being derived from gods and goddesses.
Friday is derived from the name of the Norse goddess Frigg/Freya; Thursday from Thor.
Other examples:
cereal - from Ceres, goddess of agriculture
martial - from Mars, god of war
panic - from Pan
venerate - from Venus
http://www.need.org/needpdf/GreekWords.pdf
It does appear as if the English language is derived from these gods and goddesses.No, I do not at this point. I do not think that the two words are related at all, etymologically. I am willing to be convinced otherwise by credible, scholarly evidence. So far that is lacking.
Certainly there are examples of these word derivations in English. That is far from being proof that all similar words are related.
In graduate school, my very favorite class was History of the German Language. It was a blast to read and see how a word that began as one thing in one language could develop into something quite different in another language - or quite similar; it was also fun to see how words that look similar in two different languages could have totally different etymologies and meanings. This is what I believe is the case with Ishtar and star.
Those are good and interesting examples. But, as I stated above, not all words that are similar have the same derivation. You do know, don't you, that pandemonium is not necessarily related to Pan (unless it is extremely far back in the history of the words)? In pandemonium and some other similar words, pan- comes from the Greek prefix meaning all.
Did you know that words beginning with ven- could have several different origins? One is Venus, that is true. Another might be the Latin word for hunt, such as venison; or perhaps Latin for selling, such as venal; or Latin for vein, such as venation; or even from German for furnishing, such as veneer. The point is that etymology is not as simplistic as seeing a similarity between two words, although that is one step in studying the history of words.
Oh my goodness. I am so close to being banned for a sarcastic reply that I am practically hyperventilating. This statement of yours is not even close to the truth.
There are some words in English that are derived from or relate to the names of "these gods and goddesses." But: "the English language is derived from" them? Resoundingly NO. Do some research on the subject. Even a source as unevenly accurate as Wikipedia can give you better insight.
But, Claire, for the record, there actually are some other things you have said that I agree with. The problem that I see is that you have mixed some genuine realistic concerns in with some highly outrageous claims, and that dilutes the effectiveness of what you are trying to accomplish.
Even the title of this thread is not helpful. "Proof"? Not at all. Perhaps you have given some "evidence" or "hints," but it is hard to see some of those bits of possible evidence, because they are so jumbled up with material that is not worth wading through.Thank you, Aficionada. You have eloquently expressed to Claire what I have many times already tried to convey. I hope that you are more successful than I have been.
And I thank you, Chasuk. Sometimes changes in attitudes and beliefs or methods come gradually. Sometimes instantly (of course). Sometimes, not at all....
Alright, you may remain neutral at this point.
Sure. I can't prove all English words come from these gods because it would take decades for me to go through each English word. However, it's just that Ishtar has also been known as the morning star and, well, it kind of makes me think that is where star comes from. It's kind of logical, don't you think?
Pandemonium is from the god pan because panic is associated with pandemonium. Since pan is a Greek god that hardly is surprising it is a Greek prefix.
Actually, Venus is associated with hunting.
Before it healed she beheld Adonis, and was
captivated with him. She no longer took any interest in her
favorite resorts, Paphos, and Cnidos, and Amathos, rich in
metals. She absented herself even from Olympus, for Adonis was
dearer to her than heaven. Him she followed and bore him
company. She who used to love to recline in the shade, with no
care but to cultivate her charms, now rambled through the woods
and over the hills, dressed like the huntress Diana. She called
her dogs, and chased hares and stags, or other game that it is
safe to hunt, but kept clear of the wolves and bears, reeking
with the slaughter of the herd. She charged Adonis, too, to
beware of such dangerous animals.
http://www.online-mythology.com/venus_adonis/
Word origin of venal?
Word History: Venal comes to us from Latin venalis "salable", based on the noun venum "sale". The original word from which venum is derived contained an S, for it turned up as vasnah "purchase" in Sanskrit and onos "price, purchase" in Greek. In Western Europe the S disappears for we don't see it in German Gewinn "profit" or English win. Venial evolved via French from Late Latin venialis "forgivable", the adjective for venia "forgiveness, indulgence, mercy". This noun is probably related to the name of Venus, the goddess of sensual love. (It would be more than a venial sin to forget to thank Kyu Ho Youm of the University of Oregon for suggesting today's Good Word.)
http://www.alphadictionary.com/goodword/word/venal
Let's look at Ishtar and the word star again.
This Istar, or Ishtar, the Queen of the Stars, was the Ashtoreth of the 1st Book of the Kings, xi, 5, 33, the original of the Aphrodite of Greece and the Venus of Rome; perhaps equivalent to Athyr, Athor, or Hathor of the Nile, and the Astarte of Syria, the last philologically akin to our Esther and Star, the Greek Aster. Astarte, too, was identified by the Venerable Bede with the Saxon goddess of spring, Eostre, at whose festival, our Easter, the stars of Virgo shine so brightly in the eastern evening sky; and the Sumerians of southern Babylonia assigned this constellation to their sixth month as the Errand, or Message, of Istar.
The word asterisk, meaning star, comes from the star goddess Aster.
https://www.msu.edu/~defores1/gre/roots … x2.htm?...
By now I think it's pretty obvious that the word star comes from the goddess Ishtar.Oh dear. Had you actually convinced yourself that I needed your permission to do this? It has been my plan all along to remain objective. But I would be happy to make this mutual: "Alright, Claire, you may remain biased at this point." I think most readers understand that you represent a specific point of view.
Yes, this is true. English has been recognized as having the largest vocabulary of any known language, the last time I checked. Depending on the exact definition of a word, the number may be as low as ~500,000 or as high as ~1,000,000. We have words that have come into English from many different languages, and those are unlikely to have any connection with any Greek, Latin, or Middle Eastern pantheons.
There is actually a problem here and it is that you seem to believe that what you think really does make a difference in the etymology of a word. It does not. What you are doing here and in your interesting post about gods and goddesses is to engage in folk etymology. It is a fun and entertaining pastime; but it can be deceptive, if you place too much stock in what you yourself think, rather than in the research of people who have spent years studying the subject.
It reminds me of the father in My Big Fat Greek Wedding; he tried to demonstrate that all words in every language had some origin in the Greek language. Cute, but incorrect.
Folk etymology. See above. (And below.)
Thanks for providing this link. In checking it out, I found that the site operator is highly credentialed and believable, and so I will certainly give a lot of weight to what he has to say. BUT, it's important to read and understand what he is saying. I myself missed it in reading too hastily the first few times, so I should not be surprised that you did also, since you are so eager to make some spurious etymological connections.
Look at the post again. Do you see that Dr. Goodword is contrasting two similar-looking words, venal and venial? If you re-read this carefully, you'll see that he is saying that venial is probably related to the name of Venus. He does not say that venal is related to the name of Venus. In fact, he is drawing distinctions between the two words, so that people will not get them mixed up. So, this interesting post has nothing to do with the post of mine which you quoted (and where I deliberately omitted the word venial), but I'm glad you introduced me to an interesting word site. Thank you!
That link did not provide enough information. Again, we don't know (here) which came first, the "star goddess's" name or the Indo-European root that came to mean star. There may be some research somewhere that has delved into this; it's possible that you have the time to track it down. Sorry, but I do not.
Again, Claire, no offense intended - truly, none whatsoever - but what you think may or may not be obvious really has nothing to do with actual etymologies. The same is true for what I think. My opinions don't alter the origins of, or changes in, words through the millenia, just as yours do not.
Or maybe they are just weary and worn out with trying to raise the level of this conversation.Okay, there's nothing more I can say to convince you. We can agree to disagree.
FIVE-POINTED – 1. This is the star that guided the wise men to find the baby Jesus. The star symbolizes the Epiphany, the revelation of God to humankind and the taking of the good news of redemption to the Gentiles. 2. The five-pointed star is a popular symbol at Christmastime. It is often seen hovering over nativity scenes or placed atop Christmas trees.
http://www.christiansymbols.net/stars_1.php
The word star comes from the Greek word "ἀστήρ" Aster meaning Star.
The pentagram is used as a Christian symbol for the five senses, Medieval Christians believed that the "pentalpha" symbolizes the five wounds of Christ. The pentagram was believed to protect against demons.The five points of the star each have five meanings: they represent the five senses, the five fingers, the five wounds of Christ,[24] the five joys that Mary had of Jesus (the Annunciation, the Nativity, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and the Assumption).
Only two flags are known to use the pentagram and is used as a symbol of King Solomon (see Seal of Solomon), the archetypal wise king of Jewish, Christian and Muslim lore.
Just because a certain symbols are portrayed, it is the intent behind its use that matters...Not the symbol itself....What a second here...paganism was incorporated into Christianity with the advent of the Vatican. It is not an original Christian symbol. For example, Jesus is said to be born on the 25th of December but there is no reference to that in the Bible. It is the birth of Mithras that was on the 25th of December.
The Greek language is only about 4500 years old while Ishtar is a Sumerian goddess that predated that by thousands of years.
That's a Gnostic Christian belief and they believe Baphomet represents the Holy Spirit. They were heretics.
King Solomon was a black magician. The hexagram is the most powerful symbol in withcraft. You're confusing pentagrams with Hexagrams. Countries like Syria and Yemen have pentagrams.
Yes, it's true. What is the intention? What is the intention of the Republican party to display inverted pentagrams? Can you say?Response to First:
So you admit that modern Christianity is taken from Paganism...Interesting...
Response Two:
Ishtar means "The Light Bringer" Sound familar...Both Lucifer and Jesus hold this title...Again Borrowed From Paganism...And our english language was taken from Greek...Not Sumarian...That would closer to hebrew...The language of the OT part of the bible you follow.
Response Three:
Medieval Time is not Gnostic times...Medieval time is from the 5th-15th centuries...well after the establishment of the "Christian" Church...
Response Four:
Jesus comes from the line of King Solomon...Does that make him a "Black Magician" as well?? And if you truly think King Solomon was a "black Magician" do you still follow his writings contained in the bible? And if so, why? Are you interested in the writings of those with "Dark Powers"? And how would you know the most powerful symbol in witchcraft?? Are you a witch?? You do know that "witchcraft" that you are thinking about, is a "Christian" creation...Those who actually "practice witchcraft" today, are nothing more than people who worship nature and all living things in general. They are not "old hags circling a big black pot" or "Magus wearing robes with strange symbols and shapes and making fire fly from their fingers"...And I was talking about the Pentagram...Not the hexagram(The Books of Solomon contain more than one "Seal of Solomon"). I know the difference and as a side note...I have all of the "other" books of Solomon...Funny thing is...those "books" were written by early christians as a guide describing the ways to control "demons" to do "God's" work..
Response Five: As to the parties intent behind their use of the star symbol...I would say since it has the flag imprinted on it and the use of the star its intent was partriotic in nature and used a symbol of a unified United States...The Flag being the US and the Single Star being used in the same manner as the one used on the state Flag of Texas...But then of course, I am not searching for the "evil" in the world...I tend to search for the good things...As it is said..."You will find exactly what you are looking for"
All of the "evil" spellcasting and things you have been describing in this thread comes directly from CHRISTIANS and their attempts at controlling demons and other perceived "evils"...The gist of Christianity is correct. The gospels are correct. It is indisputable that the Catholic Church incorporated its paganism into the church. For example, nowhere in the Gospels is Jesus said to be born on the 25th of December. Easter eggs and Christmas trees are pagan. These only came into play 300 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus. Christianity is not based on paganism.
"Ishtar’s name means “star”, and she was also known as Istar, Estar, Ishara, Ishhara, Astar, Atar, Attar, Athar, Athtar, Irnini, Absusu"
http://www.goddessaday.com/mesopotamian/ishtar
I didn't say the English language was taken from Sumeria. I'm saying that the Greeks probably got their word from the Sumerians.
Can you post me the verse where it says Jesus is the light bringer?
And you don't believe they held onto Gnostic beliefs? If they do, they are Gnostic Christians.
Come on now...if an ancestor of mine was a black magician does it now automatically mean I am one? I don't follow the writings of Solomon, no. I don't just think Solomon was a black magician, I know so. It's a fact. Look up, "The Seal of Solomon", a book on witchcraft. For me to know that witch-craft is the most powerful symbol in witch-craft means I know how to use the Internet. Witch-craft a Christian creation? What are you talking about? They are written about in the Old Testament. How naive can you get? There may be some naive witches who really believe they are just nature worshipers but that is not true witch-craft. I'm sure those early Christians were Gnostics. I never pictured witches what I'm talking about as old hags at a pot. They can be doctors, lawyers, etc.
Patriotic? Maybe you could interpret is as anti-American as everything inverted is the rejection of what is upright.
No.You are correct...the bible doesn't say Jesus was born on the 25th...Do you actually know why that date was used...I do...
And if you think Christianity isn't based in pagan roots...Then..you need to study some more...Just for a start...Check and see where these two holidays started...Christmas and Easter...
Based on the source you used...I will agree it can mean "star" as well...But did you notice she is also refer to as the Morning Star...
Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
The book is dated from the 1st-3rd century CE...Solomon lived around the late 900 BCE (Give or Take)...How did he write it? And so you looked something up on the internet, and you have no direct knowledge of if a symbol has power or not...Witch-craft is the term used by the church to describe the practices of pagan (country dweller) people...Have you actually read the book... It is actually called the Testament of Solomon...Let me post a few lines....
"Blessed art thou, O Lord God, who didst give Solomon such authority. Glory to thee and might unto the ages. Amen."
"Now when I Solomon heard this, I entered the Temple of God, and prayed with all my soul, night and day, that the demon might be delivered into my hands, and that I might gain authority over him. And it came about through my prayer that grace was given to me from the Lord Sabaoth by Michael his archangel. [He brought me] a little ring, having a seal consisting of an engraved stone, and said to me: "Take, O Solomon, king, son of David, the gift which the Lord God has sent thee, the highest Sabaoth. With it thou shalt lock up all demons of the earth, male and female; and with their help thou shalt build up Jerusalem. [But] thou [must] wear this seal of God. And this engraving of the seal of the ring sent thee is a Pentalpha."
"And I Solomon was overjoyed, and praised and glorified the God of heaven and earth."
Hmmm..This sounds...well...I'll let the reader decide...
The "Seal of Solomon" refers to a ring that legend says King Solomon possessed which had the power to control demons and that is in part how the temple was rebuilt.
Let me just say...Those people who are "witches" today...Don't believe in satan or demons...You are not talking about witch-craft...You are talking about demonic sorcery...And only those people who actually believe in demons or devils/satans are interested in this type of stuff...And that would be... well...Lets just say, I don't believe in demons/satan/devil or any of those other "evil" spirits certain religions claim are roaming the earth...
I really don't mind that we agree or disagree on a matter...But There are two sides to every story...And the truth normally lies somewhere in the middle...So it is helpful to check both sides before coming to a set decision on a matter...And that is the reason I am posting the opposing views to your claims...Sigh. I know 25th of December is Mithras' birthday but the Catholic Church only incorporated paganism into Christianity 300 years after the Gospels were written. So, now it isn't based on paganism. Difference between based on something and perverted by something.
It's interesting, isn't it? However, the Morning Star is not a title exclusive to one being. Job 38:7 in the NIV says, "while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?"
In the KJV it says, "7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
Morning stars could refer to the angels and Jesus is the Morning Star as the son of God with the ultimate authority. Sons of God refer to people, like judges, who had special authority from God to govern the people.
I'm sorry, I meant "Key of Solomon"! That book seems to be written in the Middle Age. In the mystery schools, the contents of the Key of Solomon would be secret and not available to non initiates until it was written. It's like the Kabbalah. It existed way before it was written down. The Testament of Solomon is considered to be rather dubious.
Anyway, who is Solomon's god?
Let's look at 1 Kings 10:14:
"The weight of gold, the metal (that is produced as a result of alchemy)that Solomon (an alchemist) received yearly was 666 talents..."
Witch-craft is demonic sorcery.
"Throughout the last 2,000 years this symbol has designated hatred of Christians. Nero, who despised Christians, crucified the Apostle Peter on a cross head downward. This hideous event resembled the Teutonic cross and became a popular pagan insignia of the day. Thereafter, this sign became known as the 'Neronic cross.'
"The symbol's origin in history proves it to be the visual mystic character for 'Aum' (the split 'Y'). This is the sacred word to the Hindu. Chanting 'Aum' is supposed to help awaken 'the serpent power of Brahma' at the base of the human spine. Occultist Albert Pike also identifies this symbol as mystical in his book on Freemasonry Morals and Dogma.
The peace symbol (also called the "broken cross," "crow's foot," "witch's foot," "Nero Cross," "sign of the 'broken Jew,'" and the "symbol of the 'anti-Christ''') is actually a cross with the arms broken. It also signifies the "gesture of despair," and the "death of man.''
"The Germanic tribes who used it attributed strange and mystical properties to the sign. Such a 'rune' is said to have been used by 'black magicians' in pagan incantations and condemnations....To this very day the inverted broken cross--identical to the socialists' 'peace' symbol--is known in Germany as a 'todersrune,' or death rune. Not only was it ordered by Hitler's National Socialists that it must appear on German death notices, but it was part of the official inscription prescribed for the gravestones of Nazi officers of the dread SS. The symbol suited Nazi emphasis on pagan mysticism.''
One former witch makes the following comment about the peace symbol:
"It is an ancient and powerful symbol of Antichrist. During the dark ages it was used in Druid Witchcraft and by Satanists of all sorts during the initiation of a new member to their order. They would draw the magic circle and give the initiate a cross. The initiate would then lift the cross and turn it upside down. He would then renounce Christianity in all three dimensions (sic) of time (past, present and future) and break the horizontal pieces downward forming the design of the 'Raven's Foot.' This ugly symbol is nothing short of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. For one to wear or display this symbol is to announce either knowingly or unknowingly that you have rejected Christ. Remember, symbolism is a picture language, and a picture is worth a thousand words.''
http://www.fitnfreejt.org/symbols%20and%20rings.htm
LaVey (Founder of the Church of Satan) used the symbol as the backdrop for his altar.
I think it's pretty clear that witch-craft is tantamount to Satanism.
I enjoy opposing views, thank you.Where did Christianity get it's start...Judaism...Where did that come from...A singular God pulled from the Pagan traditions of the Middle East. Which religion do you think the Evil or Dark deity came from in Judaism and Christianity?? Zoroastrianism.
With the amount of credit you give Satan...I would be inclined to say that you believe in at least Two Gods...One who is good (whom you worship) and one who is evil (whom you feed by creating "chaos" by the amount of conflict you have created by bringing up this topic to begin with) ***My personal opinion*** and not meant as an insult or a poke at you in anyway...
The best way to defeat evil...Ignore it and don't feed it...If one does this then it will wither and fade away...By created these type of converstation, you create an interest in "Evil" and by so doing feed into that Evil and allow it to gain even more power...Over you and over others...Evil feeds off of the emotions of humans...And the more emotions created and caused by these type of debates, does nothing more but to strengthen its hold on those who believe...
Why do you think Voodoo and Black Scorcery works...Because people believe it works and feeds into the power of it...
Example: If I told a believer that I was an Evil Scorcerer and had placed an evil hex on them...They would begin to experience bad luck, sickness and various other things...
If I tell the same thing to an Atheist...They would laugh their ass off at me and nothing would change in their life at all...
And trust me when I say...Only those who believe in the Christian God, Satan, Hell, Angels, and Demons are the ones who practice the "dark arts" as you have described...
And yes even a few "Pagan" beliefs do as well...Santeria would be a religious belief that I am sure you (the "true" believers) would Place into this arena.
The majority of Pagan beliefs, just have a variety of gods/goddesses for set purposes (Health, Love, Peace, Protection, Money) depending on what they are wishing to improve in their lives. The vast majority are Vegetarian or Vegan and eco-friendly. They are not interested in converting others, harming others, they are interested in worshipping the "Divine" in their own way free of oppression or hatred. As a Minister, I have worked with believers from all sides of religions...And I must say...The True Muslims and True Pagan types, live and hold their beliefs in their daily lives alot better than the majority of the "Christians" I have worked with.Elaborate.
Jesus said, "I've come to bring a sword." In other words, conflict happens when you stand up to evil. There's a saying that goes, "Evil thrives when good men do nothing." If you don't speak out against evil then, congratulations, you help it thrive.
Evil loses power when people become aware of it and DO SOMETHING ABOUT! If you witnessed a murder should you just turn away and ignore it because you don't want to "feed the evil"? No, you would report it because evil needs to be punished. Jesus never minced words when it came to evil. He exposed it with all His might. I think it appalling that so few people care about the evil that is happening in this world.
There's a difference between being in an alliance with evil and exposing it.
Ah, no. A Satanist tried to hex me and told me so. Nothing happened to me.
You can't say all atheists would not be affected.
I have come across some decent witches on the Internet. They are just deceived people. That's just what Satan does best. Some may be evil and hiding behind the veil of "love".
What is your religion?I gave you the start...I'll let you do your own leg work. Killing is crime...And Against the law...Of course I would report it...But That is real...Demons and this "evil" you speak of...I don't think is real Really? One has to know and understand evil to be able to expose it...Not all of us see "evil" the same way. So either you aren't a believer or the "power of satan" isn't real. Or the Power isn't nearly as powerful, bad and controlling as you are attempting to portray in this thread. Sure I can...Black magic and that type of thing isn't real... And who are you to judge who is deceived or not...You are not God are you??? And since as you say, that is what Satan does best, How can you be so sure he doesn't have you fooled and you are, in fact, the one deceived?
One might be able to lie with words...But it is hard to lie with actions and non-vocal communication. Some of the most "Christ-like" people I know are Pagans and Muslims.
And the religion I follow has nothing to do with this debate...My religious beliefs...Maybe...But that would only cloud this issue being discussed and therefore not important. Beside...I am not here to convert anyone.
One reason I don't "flaunt" my personal beliefs...I don't have to try to defend them to those who don't believe the same as me...And as these Religious/Philosophical Forums have shown us many times over...It is a hopeless endeavor.
Fail.
You don't have to report it. You could pretend you never saw it. Unfortunately, Satan and his demons do exist.
I'm going to give you an example of just how evil these Satanic leaders are. I'm not going to mention the scientific evidence for what I'm about to claim but the Global Elite, the US government and elite included, was responsible for mass murder on 9-11. How do these people sleep at night cosily while being implicit in it? Because they are Satanists?
Have a look especially about the part on 9-11. Watch till the end and give me your commentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GP6q98x … T3_yMQABAA
Numerology is insanely important in the occult:
William Wynn Wescott, one of the original organizers of the Golden Dawn (of which Satanist Aleister Crowley was a member), explains the number eleven in his book, “Numbers: Their Occult Powers and Mystic Virtue”
“Upon the Number Eleven. This seems to have been the type of number with a evil reputation among all peoples. The Kabbalists contrasted it with the perfection of the Decad, (10) and just as the Sephirotic number is the form of all good things, so eleven is the essence of all that is sinful, harmful and imperfect; with the Ten Sephiroth they contrasted the Eleven Averse Sephiroth, symbols of destruction, violence, defeat, and death.”
The number 11 is also the number of magic or sorcery. The individual is in confrontation with the world and the demonic realm."
According to Wescott in his book, “Numbers: Their Occult Power and Mystic Virtues”, the number 9 holds great significance in Masonic orders and secret societies.
He said, "There is a Masonic order of Nine Elected Knights in which nine roses, nine lights, and nine knocks are used." In fact the number nine is the number of "the earth under evil influences."
9-11:
The earth under evil influences which causes destruction, violence, defeat and death.
• The date of the attack: 9/11 - 9 + 1 + 1 = 11.
• Each building had 110 stories.
• After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year.
• September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11.
• 119 is the area code for Iraq/Iran. 1 + 1 + 9 = 11, 911 - 119 are opposites - enemies?
11 11 polarity.
• Twin Towers - standing side by side, looks like the number 11.
• State of New York - The 11th State added to the Union.
• "New York City" has 11 letters.
• "Afghanistan" - 11 letters.
• "The Pentagon" - 11 letters.
• "Ramzi Yousef" - 11 letters (convicted of orchestrating the attack on the WTC in 1993).
• Flight 11 - 92 on board - 9 + 2 = 11.
• Flight 11 had 11 crew members onboard.
• The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11.
• Flight 77 - 65 on board - 6 + 5 = 11.
If you are protected by the power of Jesus, Satan can do nothing.
Well, you clearly haven't spoke to all atheists.
You don't have to be God to see the deception in this world especially if God reveals it to you.
I think you are insinuating that I'm not "Christ-like".
You said you were a minister, no? It's important to know because if you are a Christian minister then you are fraud.
People came to my forum. I did not shove it down their throats. Did Jesus not "flaunt" the truth that He is the son of God? Did He not defend Himself against the Pharisees?If the day ever comes where arrogant, conspiracy seeking and evil loving fundamentalists stop comparing themselves to Jesus Christ; I'll throw a party.
It'll take another million years before you can throw that party. I wish I could live that long!
I don't know why we even bother with some...We can't even discuss a topic without dragging personal beliefs or insults into the conversations...LOL...I am not even gonna bother to reply to her comment...She is set in her beliefs and there is nothing more I can discuss with her...
I am glad to know that she would consider me a fraud if I claimed to be a christian minister (which I think is because my debate was the opposing side of her argument) Which I find interesting as having a debate and using the oppossing argument has nothing to do with my personal beliefs...It is simply an opposing side to the debate. Very Christ-like...LOL
Let's discuss this so we can clear some things up. I'm just wondering why you refuse to divulge what your religion is. Ministers are usually equated with the Christian religion.
Me claiming you are a fraud if you are a Christian minister has nothing to do with opposing everything I saw. It has to do with what you have written.
Here are a few examples:
"All of the "evil" spellcasting and things you have been describing in this thread comes directly from CHRISTIANS and their attempts at controlling demons and other perceived "evils"....
Where did Christianity get it's start...Judaism...Where did that come from...A singular God pulled from the Pagan traditions of the Middle East. Which religion do you think the Evil or Dark deity came from in Judaism and Christianity?? Zoroastrianism. "
From this example you are denying the power of Satan and Satan himself. You imply Christians perceive evil erroneously.
"The best way to defeat evil...Ignore it and don't feed it...If one does this then it will wither and fade away...By created these type of converstation, you create an interest in "Evil" and by so doing feed into that Evil and allow it to gain even more power..."
I don't know why you put "evil" in inverted commas and then go onto that same evil gains more power because of attention. Jesus most certainly didn't ignore evil. He took it head on. The ultimate confrontation of evil was His death on the cross and descension into hell.
"Your image of "Satan" looks an awful lot like the Pagan God PAN. Funny how the Christian faith took another religious diety image and used it to portray the "evil" diety of the Christian faith."
You were writing this with derision. You clearly have a problem with the Christian faith.
Any reasonable person will pick up that you are anti-Christian. Your views on evil that Jesus had are not in sync with yours. One cannot possibly be a Christian not believing in Satan. He most certainly didn't ignore evil and did not ignore Satan. He rebuked him.
Would you like to confirm or deny this?
And I suppose you have no comment on this video I posted. No, because you have no answer to it. Perhaps I'm "paranoid" for good reason. I learn about an episode of a TV show aired in March 2001 that is about a terror attack on New York with planes colliding into the towers. And the episode says the government is behind it! Then I learn of a Mario Brothers game that has planes going into the twin towers created in 1993. Then I see a "The Simpsons" episode with a magazine cover with "9-11", the eleven being the twin towers and 9 representing $9. Then there is the Illuminati card game created in 1995 showing the twin towers being nuked looking just like towers did when the explosions went off. Then a rapper has the ball of flames coming out of the twin towers dated June 2001 on his album cover.
If you cannot see a pattern here then you are in denial. It is clear that the entertainment industry as well as the government and other powerful people around the world are involved in a Satanic conspiracy. It has existed for a very long time and many are privy to it.
I cannot make it more obvious for you.
I'll make it obvious for others who have not watched the video:
Description:
Steve Jackson, was planning his newest game, which he would ultimately call the "Illuminati -- New World Order" Game, or "INWO" for short published in 1995.
He got a surprise visit from the Secret Service, who tried their best to shut him down and prevent him from publishing his game.
http://www.cuttingedge.org/News/n1753.cfm
Oh, what do we have here?
No way...
Is London going to be nuked??
Super Marios brothers
Thirty Seconds over New York
by Robert Buchard
Published August 1st 1977 by Tower & Leisure Sales Co (first published January 1st 1970)
Mortadelo comic strip (1993)
The Coup (2001)
If there was one picture or two with references such as these I'd raise an eyebrow. But come on...no conspiracy?So you associate a minister with Christianity...
There is "Ministers" in almost ever religion...Also know as a Spiritual Leader...
My Religion has nothing to do with a debate.
My comments are nothing more than the opposing argument to the discussion at hand. Unlike some...I don't need to include my belief to have a debate on a topic. When I debate a topic in these forums I either take the supporting side of the debate or the opposing side of the debate. And then I find the information required to support the side of the debate (unless I already know the information) I have chosen to talk about.
And just so you know... I recieved my Ordination from a Wesleyan Holiness Church...You can look that up and see what their beliefs are if you feel so inclined. I received my Doctorate in Biblical Studies from Regent University and I am currently working on a second Masters Degree from Saint Leo University. And so you might can guess, I have no problems or issues with Christianity, in fact I quite enjoy it. I do however have a problem with people who claim the title and have no idea what, where or why their "religious beliefs" came from.
I don't care for using the title of "Christian" because of the bad taste it leaves in almost everyones mouth. There are way to many who talk the talk, but can't or don't walk the walk and it has given Christians a bad name. And that of course would defeat the good one tries to do for those in need. Why do you think it is the atheist has such a hard time believing one Christian is any different that the rest that are out there...Because the majority don't live what they claim or what they condemn others of.
If I was to judge based on what I was taught growing up...And just basing my "opinion" from what is written in these threads...The Christian religion I was raised with would have all but maybe one or two people on here going straight to hell in a handbasket.
This is a discussion board. And unless we are talking about the beliefs we hold in general, there is no need for me to "proclaim" my beliefs...I let my conversation and actions "proclaim" the type of person I am...
And I debate each topic I choose to be involved with, using the same methods...I pick which side of the debate I wish to discuss and go from there...My beliefs are not required. The only requirement needed is an understanding of the topic and the basis of the side of the debate I wish to partake of.
There is no need for me to place my personal beliefs out there for the world to see. In the attempt to "educate" those who are not the believing types, for lack of a better way to say it, why would I want to cloud the issue with arguing over if my religion or beliefs are right or wrong. I instead can just pass along a message in a non-confrontation way and that seems to be much better received than a direct frontal assault of claiming all unbelievers are going straight hell because they don't believe as I do.
I try not to base my side of a debate solely from a opinion I may hold...And if I do, I typically will say that it is my opinion. The facts are there to be found if one only looks...Where the Christian religion came from has nothing to do with the faith one holds in it. But I find it is helpful to at least know your religions history because I can assure you, the majority of the atheist you meet with know it as well as having a very good understanding of the bible and its meaning...Both the original and the modern ones.You sure don't talk about Christianity with much warmth. You sure do confuse me.
So you are ashamed of the title "Christian"? How about calling yourself a Christian and proving that it needn't be regarded with contempt?
If you are not arguing whether your beliefs are right or wrong, how can you pass along a message? A non-confrontational way should not be synonymous with people scratching their heads wondering how or what you are defending. Jesus never was like that. He was very clear about His message. No true Christian would threaten someone with hell.
You say I should make the effort to know the history of my religion yet you are too lazy to tell me about how Christianity and Judaism derives from Zoroasterianism.
Unfortunately you did not address my specific questions for you.
Do you or do you not believe in Satan and his power?
Do you believe Christianity is a pagan religion?
You believe we should ignore evil when Jesus preached against evil and took it for us on the cross.
Or these things are not Christian beliefs. Are you deliberately or unintentionally trying to mislead Christians. Are you a sleeper? Well, that's rhetorical because you would never admit it if you were.
About your Wesleyan church:
"We believe God’s will for people everywhere is to know Him and that the purpose of the church it is tell the world about Christ through worship, witness and loving deeds."
You sure aren't doing that! The "telling the world" part, that is.
And, of course, you ignore the elephant in the room. There is no doubt there is a Satanic conspiracy. I will take your silence as an admission.A title is nothing more than talk...There are plenty who claim the title but don't walk what they talk...By using A title is placing myself "above" others and that isn't the case...I am no better than anyone else.
I can provide information without making the claim of it being right or wrong and allow the person to decide for themselves...People on the defensive tend to shut out all discussion and fail to hear what is being said. I wonder how many are scratching their heads concerning my side of a discussion...I think it is pretty clear, as I have said it numerous times, I was presenting an opposing side to a debate free of my personal beliefs. But you are and continue to want to bring my personal beliefs into the debate. I would say, because it is easier to say someone is wrong because of a belief than from the "evidence" that is presented by that person. As I have said before, my personal beliefs have nothing to do with debating this topic or any other topic on this forum. Last I checked I wasn't running for office or any other position that required my personal stand on a matter to be of concern to the general public. But I will indulged you somewhat with my personal opinion on a few questions you have asked further down in this post.
And Jesus was clear?? He taught in parables and then later had to explain his message to disciples because even they didn't understand him...
Matthew 13:10-11
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11 He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
Mark 4:34
He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything.
And I am not picking on the teachings of Jesus or saying that they are wrong. I am saying that you are not completely accurate in saying that the teachings of Jesus (in his time, not the explained version of the bible) were completely clear to the people he spoke with or taught.
Please explain how I am lazy? If you don't wish to look up your own religious history, why should I do it for you? I have spent many years studying the history of religions (more than my own) So how am I the lazy one, because I am not doing your legwork?
Lets see here..
Do I believe in Satan and powers...No.. the bible does not support this...The word Satan means adversary and can be attached to a variety of things...And Jesus was tempted by "worldly desires (satan)" not an actual entity. As many Christians are today, the exception is, Jesus rejected the "worldly treasures" for God...Judging from the amount of stress people place on "keeping up with the Jones" not all Christians have this figured out yet...
Do I believe Christianity is a Pagan religion...No...But it has its base in pagan traditions...
Jesus did not preach against Evil...He preach the Kingdom of God...How to live free of sin...He defended against the misinterpretation of the "LAW" by the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and Lawyers...
I am not trying to mislead anyone...I would like for them to find the true facts for themselves, instead of guessing or blindly follow what they are told in church.
Am I a sleeper? If that is an insinuation that I am affiliated with a terrorist group of any sort...I think I will report that as a person attack of my person and since I am in the military as well and comments like that could jeopardize my clearance and job, I might would even request a permanent ban of this particular avatar and name.
Do I worship-Yes, Do I witness-Yes, do I do loving deeds-Yes...SO I am doing my part of "telling the world". You seem to forget the fact that I only offered a opposing side to your topic of debate. Up until I answered your questions concerning my beliefs that you posed, did I personally offer that I agreed or disagreed with your beliefs. If you would like to know my personal stance on your beliefs concerning this topic...I guess I can tell you...I think you are allowing Satan to have power of aspects of your life. By constant study of the occult and searching for Satan, you have been consumed by the occult and have lost sight of God and the good that abounds. Just going from the way you have talked in this thread, it appears that your life revolves around the occult and all things evil. I would think, instead of stressing over the evil in the world and who is or isn't a "satan" worshipper...Apply some good and spread the good word concerning the Kingdom of Heaven and let God worry about the rest...You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. People can see the "evil" in the world by themselves, they don't need constant reminding of it by any religion. What they need is for someone to show them the Good things and someone to paint the pretty picture of what could be when the afterlife calls.
I am not ignoring "elephants", it appears to me, and from the responses in this thread, to others as well, that you are imagining "elephants" and are at a loss as to why no-one else can see them. There is no such thing as a Satan conspiracy...And if there was, it would mean that the rapture should have taken place or will be taking place shortly...According to the Book of Revelations...And if you feel that you are a true Christian, I would be concerned that Satan is in charge and you weren't part of the rapture...Don't talk nonsense. People call themselves atheists but that doesn't mean they are placing themselves above others.
You were not playing Devil's Advocate and I'll show you why. Your personal beliefs have everything to do with it because if they don't reconcile with the gospels then you don't know what you are talking about.
This is not the message I was referring to. I was talking about His message that He is the son of God and that our adversary is the devil. The issues we will discussing.
In my standards, when I make a claim I back it up with evidence brought to the table. I bring it to the forum because I am the claimant.
This is not a Christian belief!
Here are the various things Jesus said about Satan:
"And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (Luke 10:18 RSV)
So He saw worldly desires fall from heaven?
"Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field." He answered, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of man; the field is the world, and the good seed means the sons of the kingdom; the weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send His angels, and they will gather out of His Kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear" (Matthew 13:36-43 RSV)
"Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:43-44 RSV)
Who's the father? Who's the father's desires? Who's the murderer?
"When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart" (Matthew 13:19 RSV)
"But when the Pharisees heard it they said, "It is only by Beelzebul [Baalzebub (Hebrew) or Beelzebul (Greek) means lord of the flies], the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons." Knowing their thoughts, He said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand; and if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you" (Matthew 12:24-28 RSV)
Luke 8: 26-37
26And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee.
27And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.
28When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
29(For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
30And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.
32And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
33Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.
34When they that fed them saw what was done, they fled, and went and told it in the city and in the country.
35Then they went out to see what was done; and came to Jesus, and found the man, out of whom the devils were departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
36They also which saw it told them by what means he that was possessed of the devils was healed.
37Then the whole multitude of the country of the Gadarenes round about besought him to depart from them; for they were taken with great fear: and he went up into the ship, and returned back again.
As a minister, surely you would know these passages??
If it is founded on paganism, then it is a pagan religion. Nowhere in the gospels doesn't it insinuate that Christianity is a pagan religion. It was perverted 300 years later. Pagan traditions were incorporated into the religion not based on it! Easter eggs, mistletoe, 25th December is not found in the gospels!
New International Version (©1984)
"But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."
This more accurately means, "Do not seek revenge on an evil person."
How do you live free of sin if the followers of Jesus did not understand evil?
Well, then you are hopelessly ignorant.
Keep in mind that I didn't accuse you of one but if you are deliberately misleading, which I can't be sure of, then you are a Satanist posing as a Christian deliberately trying to mislead others to put them off Christianity.
It's just that you spoke with Christianity with derision. That is how it came across and you diminish the power of evil.
Many people feel that the Christian life is just happy and joyous. What they don't know is if they are a disciple of Christ they will be attacked by the devil. In order to understand God, one needs to understand Satan. You can't recognize the good without knowing what bad is. Most people do not understand Satan and how he controls the whole world. This is the side of Christianity that needs to be addressed because I found lacking in this aspect quite woeful. You cannot spread the joy of the Kingdom of Heaven if you don't know who Jesus conquered.
What are you talking about that the rapture should have taken place already if there is a Satanic conspiracy? This conspiracy has been taken place for thousands of years. We have not reached the tribulation stage but the conspiracy is leading up to it. The Illuminati established in the 1700 wrote down this Satanic conspiracy.OK, I am only gonna touch on a few points as most of your post is repeated scriptures and not relevent to the points I am addressing.
So Atheist don't think they are better than Christians?? the majority think Christians are morons for believing in the "fairy tale".
What part of I wasn't using my personal beliefs as a basis for presenting an opposing argument to the debated topic...I quite clearly said that I PURPOSELY found information that was in contrast to your side of the debate...Nothing more...
I am going to skip over your "Satan" talks...As you don't seem to know what the word means or the context it is used in the bible...The Hebrew, Greek or English versions...
And regarding my "being Lazy"..to use your words "that is your standards"...Not mine...Besides, it wouldn't matter if I showed you the "proof" anyways because you wouldn't accept it...And I don't feel the need to waste any extra energy on the matter...If you are interested, you will look it up...If not...continue as you wish...
Of your scripture rant...I want to touch on one item:
"And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (Luke 10:18 RSV)"
Let me rephrase this for you with the meaning of satan..."And He said to them, "I saw an adversary fall like lightning from heaven."
When you read the word satan try replacing it with adversary...As I said before a little study in the area of the original languages and the meanings and contexts of the time it was writing, might be of assistance.
Despite your insinuations and insults, (sleeper and ignorant) I have not returned that form of communication to you. I have been extremely respectful in all of my responses to you.
I don't agree with needing to understand Satan to understand God...Or Vice Versa...If you understand God...Anything that doesn't match or align with that understanding...Isn't God..Simple...
Another scripture you posted:
"But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."
Now where do you think Jesus got this from....From the "scriptures" of his time the OT...Jesus referenced the OT alot in his teachings...In this case he was quoting the Prophet Jeremiah.
Lamentations 3:30 "Let him offer his cheek to one who would strike him, and let him be filled with disgrace."
OK...Let me touch on the Pagan root since you aren't wishing to research it on your own...The Evil entity often refered to as satan or the devil came from the Zoroastrianism beliefs. Which was founded prior to the 6th Century BCE and is thought to be the oldest monotheists religions. The bible "history" starts around 4500 BCE give or take...Judaism was taken from this religion, as Abraham (from the land of UR) took the God and left the "evil" side of it behind. And over time Judaism flowed into what we see in the bible today. Even today, most Jewish people don't hold a belief in satan or the devil. And Seeing as Jesus followed the Text of the OT (even quoting it) His followers built Christianity from modified Judaic traditions and added Jesus into the Godhead...(The trinity didn't come along until about the same time as the "other pagan" traditions of Christmas and Easter) And speaking of the trinity, that is mentioned in the bible either, so therefore it must be a false belief as you have said that the bible speaks nothing of "pagan" roots so that must be false as well.
The last point is regarding my comment of Rapture and Satan conspiracy concept you have introduced in this thread. Read Revelations Chapters 20 and 21.
And as a side note. I am a Minister, I hold a Doctorate in Biblical Studies. I have spent many years learning, researching and learning some more. I don't mind if we disagree in our personal point of view's, but insults because we disagree or because I don't see something as you do is completely uncalled for and is very disrespectful (and according to many, very unchristianlike). Dispite some of the (seemingly outrageous) claims you made in this thread, I have not insulted you in anyway (as some others have). I would appreciate if mutual respect was shown both ways in this matter.I may not agree with everything you said, but thanks for the history lesson. I personally don't think the majority of Atheist think Christians are morons. I don't think it has anything to do with intelligence, but I do think it does have something to do with the differences of the brain. Possibly and evolutionary process that has not been played out yet. Much like the RH value in humans. My father in law can't seem to understand why anyone would change religion. "You do what you parents and there parents have done and that's that". He is clearly intelligent, but can't understand critical thinking.
You know you are right,
Maybe I should change majority of atheist to the majority of hubpager atheist...
And I guess moron isn't the best word to use either...not sure what would be the best word to use to describe how alot of believers are viewed by the non-believer... But you are correct that is not the intelligence of the person, maybe the "common sense" or "street smarts" to use slang words out of context for this purpose.
As you said, not all atheists think that way. The point is that just because one holds a title doesn't mean they are all the same. If someone says they are a scientist does it automatically mean they think they're superior?
I don't know about that. I am so confused about you.
.
Jesus didn't skip the Satan talks. Anyway, Satan goes by meaning names. Baal, Beelzebub, etc.
And who was that that adversary? I don't like the way you cherry pick what to respond to. You deliberately ignored these parts. Please respond this time.
"Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field." He answered, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of man; the field is the world, and the good seed means the sons of the kingdom; the weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send His angels, and they will gather out of His Kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear" (Matthew 13:36-43 RSV)
Who is the devil? Devil doesn't mean adversary.
"Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:43-44 RSV)
Who's the father? Who's the father's desires? Who's the murderer and liar? Are adversaries also a "he"?
"When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart" (Matthew 13:19 RSV)
"But when the Pharisees heard it they said, "It is only by Beelzebul [Baalzebub (Hebrew) or Beelzebul (Greek) means lord of the flies], the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons." Knowing their thoughts, He said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand; and if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you" (Matthew 12:24-28 RSV)
Beelzebub is equated with Satan.
Luke 8: 26-37
26And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee.
27And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.
28When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
29(For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
30And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.
32And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
33Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.
34When they that fed them saw what was done, they fled, and went and told it in the city and in the country.
35Then they went out to see what was done; and came to Jesus, and found the man, out of whom the devils were departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
36They also which saw it told them by what means he that was possessed of the devils was healed.
37Then the whole multitude of the country of the Gadarenes round about besought him to depart from them; for they were taken with great fear: and he went up into the ship, and returned back again.
"Who are these demons who acknowledge Jesus as the son of God?
I asked you whether you were a sleeper, not that you were. There's a big difference. And ignorant you are. If you don't believe Satan exists then you are dangerously ignorant. You said I facilitate evil and insinuated I'm not Christ-like. Should I take offence to that?
What did Jesus do that was so wonderful by dying on the cross and resurrecting from the dead? What is that to you? He conquered evil and death by taking on all the evil committed in the entire world. Hell is the complete separation from God because God cannot be near evil. You discard a lot out of the Bible. You clearly don't believe He was tempted by Satan in the Garden of Gethsemane. You also discard the fact that Jesus referred to Satan as a real entity. Do you ever wonder where evil came from in the first place?
And your point is?
The problem with this is the main source of Zoroaster is from the Avesta which was composed from between 300 AD to 800 AD.
http://ada.usal.es/pages/transmission_index
I'm getting a lot of conflicting information. Some sources say he was born in the 5th century BC (600BC). Some say 1767 BC!
http://answers.encyclopedia.com/questio … 67446.html
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top … /Zoroaster
So how can there be Zoroasterian beliefs before his birth?? Now if the above information is correct then clearly Zoroasterianism is based on Judaism. Zoroaster did not believe in monotheism. Angra Mainyu was Mazdu's rival also uncreated.
"He exalted Ahura Mazda...as supreme among the gods...and viewed the world as an agelong struggle between Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu" (Ibid., 1202).
http://books.google.co.za/books?id=yu84 … mp;f=false
Vishtaspa was an ally of Zoroaster. From the Avesta:
'I am a pious man, who speaks words of blessing,' thus said Zarathushtra to the young king Vishtaspa. - 'She appears to me full of Glory, O Zarathushtra!' - 'O young king Vishtaspa! [I bless thee] with the living of a good life, of an exalted life, of a long life. May thy men live long! May thy women live long! May sons be born unto thee of thy own body!
2.
'Mayest thou thyself be holy, like Zarathushtra.
'Mayest thou be rich in cattle, like an Athwyanide!
'Mayest thou be rich in horses, like Pourushaspa!
'Mayest thou have a good share of bliss, like king Husravah!
'Mayest thou have strength to reach the Rangha, whose way lies afar, as Vafra Navaza did.
3.
'May ten sons be born of thy own body! three as Athravans, three as warriors, three as tillers of the ground! May one of them be like Jamaspa, that he may bless thee with great and ever greater happiness!
http://www.avesta.org/fragment/vytsbe.htm
"Due to the large amount of destruction inflicted on Zoroastrianism and the Avesta, not much is known about Zoroaster’s life. Estimates of his time vary greatly from around 600 BCE to as early as 2000BCE. Those supporting the later dates cite the fact that Zoroaster is supposed to have taken refuge with King Vishtaspa. Vishtaspa was the father of Darayawaush (Darius) the Great whose reign began in the 500’s BCE, making the later date plausible. However, the Vishtaspa of Zoroaster’s time may have been a much older Vishtaspa. Mythological evidence dates the doctrines of Zoroastrianism to a much older date. Archaeological evidence, such as ruins found in the eastern Iranian lands, seems to agree that Zoroaster would have lived earlier than 1000BCE. Linguistic evidence supports the notion that Zoroaster lived in a time near 1000BCE. The Gathas, attributed to Zoroaster himself, are written in the archaic Old Avestan. The complexity of the grammar has led linguists like Bartholomea to place the date of the Zoroaster’s time around 1000BCE."
http://parsaworld.com/bastan/Zoroaster.html
Despite the conflicting dates, none of them predate Judaism.
Why are you a Christian when it is supposedly a rehashed version of Zoroasterianism? Why are you a Zoroasterian then?
You say that Jews don't believe in Satan despite him being mentioned in the Old Testament. Who do the Jews think the serpent is in the Garden of Eden?
The word "trinity" may be a pagan but the concept is not. It is written in the Bible, "The Father, son and Holy Spirit".
See Matthew 28:19
The last point is regarding my comment of Rapture and Satan conspiracy concept you have introduced in this thread. Read Revelations Chapters 20 and 21.
You are just a mass of contradictions. You don't believe in Satan yet it is there in the passages in Revelation 20 and 21!
You are ignorant not to believe in Satan and I do not know what you agenda is because you contradict yourself so much and thus am entitled to ask IF you are a sleeper.As I have asked multiple times to refrain from insults. And this request is seemily being ignored, I will not be responding to anymore posts from you. Insults do not condone a enviroment for furthering an educational or informative conversation.
Have a nice day.Nice try.
In other words, I've refuted you and you know it. You're just not honest enough to admit it. Anyway, I did not give you new "insults". It's you who keeps bringing up the sleeper and ignorant part obviously not understanding why I said those things.
Alright. just for fun ... can you guess when the first World Trade Center Bombing occurred?
I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next person ... but this is a pretty elementary fail.Haw, haw, nice try!
Let's pick out a few. "Thirty seconds over New York" was published in 1970.
Mortadelo comic strip (1993)
Planes going into towers in 1993?
Here is Jackson's account which was on the link you should have bothered to peruse. It would have mentioned that the game was designed in 1990.
How did Steve Jackson know the Illuminati Plan so precisely? In fact, he knew the Plan so exactly he got a surprise visit from the Secret Service, who tried their best to shut him down and prevent him from publishing his game. As you will see from viewing excerpts of Jackson's account of the raid, they were very interested in his files entitled, "Illuminist BBS". Let us listen to Jackson's account of the raid [ http://www.sjgames.com/SS/ ]
"On the morning of March 1, [1990] without warning, a force of armed Secret Service agents - accompanied by Austin police and at least one civilian 'expert' from the phone company - occupied the offices of Steve Jackson Games and began to search for computer equipment. The home ... the writer of GURPS Cyberpunk, was also raided. A large amount of equipment was seized, including four computers, two laser printers, some loose hard disks and a great deal of assorted hardware. One of the computers was the one running the Illuminati BBS."
And the Pentagon was not attacked in 1993.
The most interesting in the towers card, the building tilts just like it did in real life.
As for the episode of "The Lonegun" aired in March 2001 about terrorists attacks orchestrated by the government involving airplanes crashing into the twin towers operated by remote control is pretty compelling...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ27jBna … mp;list=WL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GP6q98x … T4K1xQAGAA
Truth of the matter is that 1993 WTC bombings were in the basement. Not near the top floors like these images portray.
Epic fail.You are somehow surprised and think it requires some great conspiracy to imagine and depict such buildings as military or terrorist targets?
They are clear targets , symbolic or actual representations of the nations power.
The WTC was opened in 1973 - (but made public in 1964)
The Pentagon is the largest office in the world, the WTC were some of the tallest buildings in the world
In 1945, a US Bomber accidentally flew into the Empire State Building.
In the 1996 Film Independence Day, ALiens blew up the White House .. was that a sign? or just an obvious device in a movie?
It doesn't require much imagination to depict such events in a visual or literary form.
and it would make for a pretty boring illustration to try and depict a "basement fire" wouldnt it?
and you are reading into the SJ / SS raid in a way that your link does not express.As I said, if there were just one or two references, then okay. But when we have a lot, then it's difference. It's amazing how many people thought of the same idea.
Let's go through this again.
Steve Jackson card game:
Here is what the south tower looked like when it collapsed.
Why did Steve Jackson design the building in that way? What building tilts when hit by a missile/plane/bomb yet underneath the tilted part the building is straight? It's a classic sign of a demolition according to physics.
Look at what the card says:
"Play this card at any time to give 10+ power resistance (your choice) to any violent group you control."
What violent group you control? Why the United States created Al Qaeda and control them to this very day.
On the Pentagram card it says, "Straight violent government".
This insinuates a terrorist attack perpetrated by the US government.
But we need to ask ourselves how probable it is that someone can imagine something that predicts it exactly. Take for example, "The Lone Gunman". Here's the transcript:
BYERS: We know it's a war game scenario. That it has to do with airline counter-terrorism. Why is it important enough to kill for.
BYERS SNR: Because it's no longer a game.
BYERS: But if some terrorist group wants to act out this scenario, then why target you for assassination?
BYERS SNR: Depends on who your terrorists are.
BYERS: The men who conceived of it the first place. You're saying our government is planning to commit a terrorist act against a domestic airline?
BYERS SNR: There you go again. Blaming the entire government as usual. In fact, a small faction ...
BYERS: For what possible gain?
BYERS SNR: The Cold War's over, John. But with no clear enemy to stockpile against, the arms market's flat. But bring down a fully loaded 727 into the middle of New York City and you'll find a dozen tinpot dictators all over the world just clamouring to take responsibility, and begging to be smart-bombed.
BYERS: I can't believe this. This is about increasing arms sales?
BYERS SNR nods.)
We can interpret this as a small faction in the US government provided a false flag attack on the towers to create an imaginary enemy in the form of Al Qaeda. For the Global Elite, war means money. And lot's of it.
You've got to realize that the writers for these scripts in shows and movies do not think of these plots on their own. They are based on real events. There were proposed false flag events in the 1960s to justify an invasion of Cuba. It was called, "Operation Northwoods".
According to secret and long-hidden documents obtained for Body of Secrets, the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. In the name of antiCommunism, they proposed launching a secret and bloody war of terrorism against their own country in order to trick the American public into supporting an ill-conceived war they intended to launch against Cuba.
These were the actual proposals:
*"Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government."
*"Advantage can be taken of the sensitivity of the Dominican [Republic] Air Force to intrusions within their national air space. 'Cuban' B-26 or C-46 type aircraft could make cane burning raids at night. Soviet Bloc incendiaries could be found. This could be coupled with 'Cuban' messages to the Communist underground in the Dominican Republic and 'Cuban' shipments of arms which would be found, or intercepted, on the beach. Use of MiG type aircraft by U.S. pilots could provide additional provocation."
*"Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft could appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the Government of Cuba."
Among the most elaborate schemes was to "create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight."
Lemnitzer and the Joint Chiefs worked out a complex deception:
An aircraft at Elgin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CJA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone [a remotely controlled unmanned aircraft]. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida.
From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Elgin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will be transmitting on the international distress frequency a "May Day" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MiG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft, which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO [International Civil Aviation Organization radio stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the U.S. what has happened to the aircraft instead of the U.S. trying to "sell" the incident.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL … woods.html
Is this the straight, violent government on the Pentagon card? Operation Northwood was proposed by the Pentagon. In the Lonegun episode, the plane was flown up remote control.
"The Coup" album cover included an explosion at the same levels as it was on 9-11. This is also a curious picture.
This is no reason why a plane should go into the towers in the background of a comic book which has nothing to do with terrorist attacks.
"and you are reading into the SJ / SS raid in a way that your link does not express."
Don't get what you mean.
Hi Claire this is also in the music industry, democrats and republicans, it is actually kinda went viral and on clothing,toys,cartoons and etc. all on youtube.
You already know this most-likely.Yes, I do. Cartoons seem the most shocking.
I genuinely fear for people like you. How miserable of an existence are you living? When people — like you — are actually convinced that Wikipedia articles and their own biased and very warped OPINIONS which are influenced by a number of different factors based on location, age, childhood, MENTAL HEALTH, etc make for good information to insert into a debate, or to even base a very vague, very very baseless claim off of, it is dangerous. It is dangerous for the people who actually believe you know wtf you're talking about and take it as gospel. Read books (BOOKS PLURAL) and peer-reviewed studies and formulate a statement founded in any realm of fact and come back to us. You should really look into Satanic panic studies and delusional disorder. It is extremely unhealthy to believe that there are really Satanic messages and symbols being conveyed in popular media. If you've been paying any attention to the world we live in, people don't need subliminal messages to get into Satan. You would also benefit from studying Satanism and what it really is, because I can almost guarantee it is nothing like you think it is.
Looks alot like the Order of the Eastern Star as well
Lots of satan worshippers around I guess....
And seeing as "Lucifer" was supposed to be a very "beautiful" creature...Your image of him seems a little off...Just thinking outloud...
Your image of "Satan" looks an awful lot like the Pagan God PAN. Funny how the Christian faith took another religious diety image and used it to portray the "evil" diety of the Christian faith.Baphomet is what Satan looks inside. Ugly.
Christians had nothing to do with the goat representing the devil. Disgustingly enough, the Gnostic Christians believe Baphomet represented the Holy Spirit.
Baphomet -- "The Gnostics held that it [universal agent] composed the igneous [pertaining to fire] body of the Holy Spirit, and it was adored in the secret rites of the Sabbat or the Temple under the hieroglyphic figure of Baphomet or the hermaphroditic goat of Mendes ." [Pike, op. cit., p. 734, teaching of the 28th Degree; Emphasis added]
Eliphas Levi, Satanist and Freemason, designed this particular Baphomet symbol.
"Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated is a book in which Dr. Burns says, "In a book on witchcraft, The Complete Book of Witchcraft and Demonology ... the caption states that he is 'the horned god of the witches, symbol of sex incarnate'." [p. 51] And if you look at his right hand you will see Baphomet making the sign of the Devil's triad. "Baphomet is also known as the Sabbatic goat, in whose form Satan is to be worshipped at the Witches' Sabbath." [Frank Gaynor, Dictionary of Mysticism, New York, Philosophical Library, 1953, p. 24]"
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/symbology/1o5.htm
I do see the point you're trying to make, Claire....this is a topic I have researched pretty extensively for a couple of years. Very interesting information, and there's a lot to investigate about it. Once you know alot about it, though, it almost tends to be overwhelming. You encounter signs of the occult presence everywhere.
First let me say I am not intenting to mean this as a jab...It is an honest question.
In your studies of these symbols...which authors or areas are you researching. Christian authors, Pagan authors, Muslim authors, The original texts, the folk lore of various areas of the world, the oral traditions passed down through families because all "spiritual books" other than the bible were burned or because the church had you killed if you were caught with them. Who actually used these types of symbols and for what purposes? Why did the "Church" adopt some many of them if they were so "evil". These are the types of questions I ask myself when I am truly researching something and not just attempting to confirm a belief I may hold. And I was curious to your processes when researching... Thank you.All authors. All sources. I am not attempting to confirm a belief I already hold because I have no bias and no belief which I held before I researched it.
To be honest, I have only done two years of research, so it's obviously not complete at all; and many texts and sources are not easily deciphered or understood. I approach the research with an open mind. I don't really have any expectation of what I will find.
I have found many symbolic similarities between the occult and government symbols, but also...sometimes these symbols appear to be symbols simply passed around and no one really knew what they meant, either. It can be understood either way. I am by no means attempting to say that the government leaders are satan-worshipers. I guess I should have referenced that, as that was the main point of the OP. I just recognize the similarity as well as the origin of these symbols and under what circumstances they were adopted....etc.
Thanks for the question...I didn't mean to imply that...Sorry...
I was just curious as to how you approached your research..No worries
sorry if I sounded short there. I realized I did so I made a rather lengthy edit to what I said and tried to answer your questions a little more specifically. Sorry bout that!
It would be silly only to consult Christian sources. I tend to avoid them unless they provide sources that aren't non-Christians. I tend to be interested in those who are involved in the occult themselves or once were.
When the government associates themselves with a pentagram that everyone knows is Satanic makes you thinks they must know what it means, too.
His people perish for the lack of knowledge could sum up to why are christians using known satanic/occult symbols.
The new King James bible even has an occult symbol on it with many changes that delete so many key words and take away important things in the bible. Here's 1 link that tells it better than I do.
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/pages/KJ … ersion.htmThanks for the link...
I have already deeply studied this type of information and have my own theories...But of course, I cannot definitively prove my theories, as the "facts" are somewhat open for interpretation. So, I will keep them to myself.
Thanks, Ashton!
They jump out at you. This is the meaning of the all-seeing eye. It can see people but people are totally blind.Medical students in the first two three years when study about diseases worry about whether they got that disease.
But beware, lest it be paranoia like that of Claire's.
Claire, you simply cannot suggest that every use of a five pointed star, whether it points up or down, is a sign of Satan. That's simply ridiculous. People use a star because they like the shape, or to them it means something bright and shinning. Do you seriously think that wherever someone has chosen a star as part of their logo that they consciously thought "ooh that will symbolise to those in the know that we love Satan"?
Simon Cowel uses a five pointed star for his Britain's/America's Got Talent shows, do you think he sucks satan's toes?Yes, it is insidiously a sign of Satan. That is not to say that you have to be a Satanist when you put a Christmas tree up or when kids get a gold star. There are many small businesses that would use stars unbeknownst of the meaning. However, large businesses know damn well what it represents. Freemasons basically own everything and the pentagram represents their "Blazing Star".
I don't have any proof that Simon is a Satanist. What I do have proof of, however, is that you will never make it big in Hollywood unless you sell your soul to the Devil. That's the undeniable truth.
Melyssa Ford confession:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEXUzCgn-nM
This video series will explain it all:
http://www.theindustryexposed.com/Claire I think you really need to chill out. Grab a couple beers or something, have a night out with the girls, listen to some whale song. There simply is no global satanic conspiracy.
You're in denial.
I'll chill out when evil has been destroyed. I have an extreme hatred for evil and it needs to be exposed.
How is it that large businesses are so much more privy to the dark workings of the supernatural? What causes them to acquire this knowledge? Employee count? Net revenue? What's the cut-off point where "innocent, misguided use of supposedly occult symbol" becomes "deliberate use of Satan Satan to Satan the Satans?"
I personally don't believe sole proprietors use the star sign believing it is Satanic. The large businesses are all owned by Freemasons and it's a Satanic organization. Usually they belong to the same blood-line which goes back to ancient Egypt. That is why they are fixated on gods such as Horus and Osiris.
Think of the major businesses and you will notice the use of stars incessantly. Walmart, Toys 'R Us, Caltex, just to name a few. Televisions shows include America's Got Talent and CNN's AC360.
This will explain things nicely:
http://trust-the-truth.blogspot.com/201 … logos.htmlIve found a nice picture of Simon Cowell with Satan horns, but the trouble with an iPad is you can't copy an image URL.
That link is just a load or paranoid nonsense Claire.
And that is different from the rest of her links, and posts, in this thread in any way?
No it's no different, they are all the same. It's just this is one of the few I could be bothered to have a quick look at.
To be fair though, Claire is not an isolated case. I have relatives who think that Freemasons are satanic and that membership results in family line curses. Thus if your car breaks down, you are sick, in poverty, or all manner of ills, they believe you need to repent on behalf of your ancestors for their Freemason membership and get yourself delivered. The real sad thing is that they are deadly serious.
I find conspiracy theories highly entertaining, but I've never understood anyone who takes them seriously.
It's a defense mechanism, a way to make sense of a world that seems to make no sense. Some people have trouble dealing with reality but by connecting everything to a single large conspiracy, it gives meaning and order to their existence. The way some mentally ill people develop multiple personalities as a coping mechanism, some cling to paranoid conspiracy theories. What can you do about it...
"What can we do about it?"
You can start by not feeding my fantasies coming to my forums.
Did you watch the video?
I've got to laugh, though. People keep telling me I'm nuts but they keep wasting their time on "lunatic" subjects such as this one. Why bother?No. I've seen some of the videos you have posted and they are just not credible.
You can't exactly dismiss something without actually watching it despite other videos you find incredible.
In modern society the star has come to symbolize fame, importance, quality, imagination, forward thinking...why would anyone NOT use it?
And as far as I've ever seen the Freemasons were/are deists, largely incompatible with Christianity but still God-centered in their view of the origins of the universe.
To be honest, I don't see how any high-functioning person could be a Satan-worshiper. It defies all logic. If you accept the existence of Satan then you accept the biblical interpretation of him and know that he hates and desires harm and damnation for all humanity. You have to be pretty warped to worship someone who hates you, to give up all hope of eternity in exchange for a few short years of (supposedly) increased worldly power. Too warped to run a successful business, I would imagine.
I believe Satan exists and is at work in the world, but his power lies in subtlety. He lives in the actions of wicked people--and in the darker desires of less wicked and even good people--but not in arbitrary shapes. Waste your time spooking and obsessing over logos and you really are allowing yourself to be blinded.Because those who know what to associate Satan with everyone and do it rather subtlety. I suppose if the upside crucifix became synonymous with fame you would ignore the original meaning?
You need to catch a wake-up.
Quote from Albert Pike: “The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretation. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine that he understands them…Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry (32nd and 33rd masons).”
Albert Pike doesn't realize the deception doesn't end there. Practice to deceive and you are deceived yourself.
Satan doesn't reveal everything about him to his minions. He omits the part where He has been defeated by the son of God and that he doesn't give a damn about them. They think he is the good guy. He has come to free them from the evil Jehovah! Good in Satanism means what benefits the Satanists and not what is moral. Bad is what happens when a Satanist doesn't get his/her way. What is important to remember is world leaders are groomed from young to be the wicked Satanists they are today. Many are mind-controlled because they were traumatized as children. For example, they would be allowed to bond with a pet and then it gets slaughtered in front of them. Trauma cause people to have their mind compartmentalized. They develop split personalities. That is why world leaders seem so "normal" on the outside but are very different behind closed doors. They don't make the decisions anyway. Satan does.
You don't appear to take Satan that seriously. There is a very good reason why I'm concentrating on logos. Symbols contain power. They are designed to hex the public. The average person's way of thinking is because of this. I have also proved that world leaders, corporations, etc are Satanists and hell bent on enslaving humanity. Good enough reason to expose them?
A star is a simple geometric shape, I used to get star stickers on my homework assignments when I did well. Associating it with a figure from mythology is pointless because stars are ubiquitous, common, generic, ordinary, (let me set my thesaurus aside for now).
Also you show an image of Baphomet. The name Baphomet does not emerge until well after 1000 AD - while Satan is a much much older idea - Baphomet is not consider to actually be a representation of Satan but is instead a symbol of duality associated with pagan religions. As can be seen the figure represents male-female unity, from the male body with female breasts.
Whether or not world leaders worship Satan is unknown but I would hope that they are smarter than to worship an imaginary figure from mythology.Symbols are not ordinary. In the occult they contain much energy.
Here is the point of symbols:
"Occultists the world over believe that, once a symbol is created, it acquires power of its own, and more power is generated when such symbol(s) are created without the profane [uninitiated] knowing about it. And, the greatest power of all is created in the symbol(s) if the uninitiated NEVER discover that the symbol exists."
Now the streets of Washington aren't adorned with occult symbols because it looks pretty. It wields power.
Lets take the two maps of Washington; one as it is and the other outlined so you can see the comparison:
There's another meaning behind Baphoment which is why it is considered a Satanic entity. Pagan gods and goddesses often are depicted as being hermaphroditic. The goddess Artemis has a penis.
More on that here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtkU6P0J … re=related
Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated is a book in which Dr. Burns says, "In a book on witchcraft, The Complete Book of Witchcraft and Demonology ... the caption states that he is 'the horned god of the witches, symbol of sex incarnate'." [p. 51] And if you look at his right hand you will see Baphomet making the sign of the Devil's triad. "Baphomet is also known as the Sabbatic goat, in whose form Satan is to be worshipped at the Witches' Sabbath." [Frank Gaynor, Dictionary of Mysticism, New York, Philosophical Library, 1953, p. 24]
The world leaders would not worship something that is the figment of their own imagination. Do not be fooled into believing Satan doesn't exist.If you're going to only pretend that part of the pentagram is there, it must be only a pretend Satan that is being worshipped, no?
It look like the pentagram's a bit squashed. Does that still qualify as a sign of Satan?
That means that America is winning out over Satan - we are squashing him under the heel of improving American morality.
We have learned to abhor slavery, we have learned that women are people too, and we are now in the process of learning that people with different sexuality are still people as well.
Slowly, very slowly, we are squashing the old ways as we learn how to become civilized, how to behave in a moral way.
The designers of Wash D.C. knew this even when they were changing cow paths into city streets, and were careful to design the squashed pentagram into the city as a symbol of our improvements. We are stamping out Satan!Stamping out Satan? You almost sound like a TV evangelist.
Think I'd make a good one? A second calling, after writing maybe?
You'd probably make a lot more money than writing too
Two of the "sides" are missing and have been filled in with only imagination. All the red lines follow streets laid out over the decades, but the yellow lines are only imagined in order to make a pentagram where one does not exist.
When I first saw this I thought you were joking. After reading some of your subsequent posts I am dumbfounded at the craziness of your claims.
Stars are all over the place. If you think that everyone who uses a star as a symbol for anything is a devil worshipper then you are clearly deluding yourself.I, too, was living under the ignorant assumption that the Church Lady wasn't a real person.
Now who keeps putting those five-point stars all over the place? Could it beeeeee...SATAN????
wouldn't satan have to be a real thing in order for anyone to worship him or her, just wondering?
No, it is very possible for people to worship things that are not real.
I'm sorry, Claire, this type of silliness deserves to be mocked.
Using similar logic, I'm going to present proof that Jesus is either 1) a collection of swallows nests, 2) a collection of newts, 3) a collection of vests, or 4) a collection of vents.
Nothing makes it more more blatant than this diagram:
JESUS > JESTS
JESTS > NESTS
NESTS > NEWTS
OR:
JESTS > VESTS
VESTS > VENTS
Here is my evidence presented visually:
TO:
TO:
OR:
OR:
TO:
OR:
Okay, good for you. It's just that I wasn't comparing words to other words changing the letters. I was pointing out that the campaign 2012 had a pentagram which everyone knows it's Satanic.
A pentagram is not Satanic. It possesses no meaning. In fact, no geometric shape possesses intrinsic meaning. When they have meanings, those meanings have been assigned to them. For whatever reason, your mind sees Satanic conspiracy everywhere, so that you see evidence of it everywhere, even in simple geometric shapes.
Folks, we are now in the Twilight Zone. Oh dear, a phantom is coming towards us! Run, run, run- heck, there was no phantom. Imaginations are running wild again..........
Claire, what you are proposing sounds far fetched, but is it?
God is in Heaven. He created us in his image and for a purpose. There is much good in this world, but there is much evil as well.
I don't know the answer to your question, but I support your right to ask it.
...just my two centsThanks.
I just find it curious that some Christians believe Jesus rose from the dead without question, which does sound far-fetched, but Satan influencing world leaders is far-fetched.
I thought at first you meant santa and just misspelled it. I was made to go to sunday school as a child and when you recited your assigned bible verse correctly you were given a gold star. A five pointed gold star! Hmmmmmm........
.I've heard that Santa is actually an anagram of Satan.
There's your proof. LolNow thats funny. Santa in spanish means holy. As in santa biblia(holy bible).
You've "heard" that? It IS! And the Nat'l Academy of Television Arts & Sciences, NATAS, is "Satan" spelled backwards. But I really shouldn't be encouraging you. Please see a psychiatrist.
Have you ever been evaluated for schizophrenia? I'm serious.
Funny, but she was unhappy when I suggested paranoid delusions.
I'll give you an answer truthfully. No, I do no have schizophrenia. I am being treated for clinical depression and my psychiatrist has never diagnosed with me that or any other kind of psychosis.
Actually, all those horizontal red and white stripes remind me of bacon.
Proof that breakfast is eaten by our world leaders! Lunchists, unite! Do not let yourselves be marked by the Sign of the Toast!This symbol has many different uses throughout the world even in Christianity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram
It can be associated with Satanism, but also with Paganism and many other religions.....Thanks much for your interesting link.
Satan is involved in every facet of life and that is why pentagrams appear everywhere in various cultures and beliefs. Satanism very much exists in the Christian religion because of the Vatican. It was Gnostic Christians who believed that the pentagram represented the five wounds of Christ and they believe Baphomet represents the Holy Spirit.
We can debate about the various meanings of the upright pentagram but it is universally accepted an upside down one represents devil worship.
Regarding the Republican pentagram usage, the stars originally were up in the elephant image but were later inverted which kind of makes you wonder the motive behind that is.
Here is the original elephant imagery:
Later changed to...
I can answer that. The stars were changed to give the impression that they were rolling. They wanted to symbolize a party on the move. Those satan worshiping democrats had accused the republicans of being a party against change. So, the republicans thought changing the stars was easier then changing the party. It appears, a democratic infiltrator suggested putting the point on the bottom. After Satan suggested it to him. The naive republicans never knew what was happening.
Actually, Satan's probably pretty pleased that people are obsessing over arbitrary shapes in logos, instead of, you know, actual evil.
The five-point star is nothing more than an iconic, stylized, and immediately recognizable representation of a star. In reality, of course, stars are spherical. Try drawing a circle and see how many people identify it as a star.I don't think he is happy to have world leaders being exposed as being in allegiance with him. Makes you wonder why there is so much evil in the world, no?
That's very perceptive of you.God kicked Satan out of heaven, giving free rein in God's custom built playground. The reason there is so much evil in the world, therefore, is because God allows it to happen. He need only snap His fingers (so to speak) to put a stop to it.
Have you rejected all evil? God can snap away all evil when all people reject evil else our we don't have free will and believe me, you'd have a crai about that.
Draw a circle and Claire may swear it's the devil's playground.
"We can debate about the various meanings of the upright pentagram but it is universally accepted an upside down one represents devil worship."
But this is an incorrect perception - the Pentagram has been used a lot longer than its attachment to satanism.
Medieval Christian religion uses it to represent the five wounds of Jesus.
The Chinese use it as a Representation of the Chinese five phases, or elements.
It's only in the 19th century when a pentagram pointing downwards was seen as evil and it became a popular sign for Satanism...."We can debate about the various meanings of the upright pentagram but it is universally accepted an upside down one represents devil worship."
But this is an incorrect perception - the Pentagram has been used a lot longer than its attachment to satanism.
Medieval Christian religion uses it to represent the five wounds of Jesus.
The Chinese use it as a Representation of the Chinese five phases, or elements.
It's only in the 19th century when a pentagram pointing downwards was seen as evil and it became a popular sign for Satanism....
Satanism has existed from the dawn of civilization! What's Baal worship, for example? Satan comes in various forms and has many names and symbols.
Gnostic Christians did not see the upside down pentagram as the five wounds of Jesus nor did the Chinese. The Norwegian pentagram is upside down but it was designed to be placed over southern Norway.
Appallingly enough, the upside down pentagram is also found in the streets of Washington.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20 … ati/dc.htm
As for the Republicans, the pentagram doesn't seem to be pointing up or do - so are they semi-good and semi-evil?
No, it's pretty clear what side is up and what side is down.
The direction of the point is irelevant. It's not a compass. There are other evidences. So obvious that it is a wonder that, even being blind, you can't see them.
We have fifty of 'em on our flag...top that!
Wandering after the beast. Could it be...that we've all been hook, line and sinkered? Could be. Everyone is wandering after the beast. Regardless of who you are, what you call yourself, what "God" you follow, or don't follow. Fact is, we are all in a leaky lifeboat we call Earth, and we better figure out what's up before hunger really sets in, and the hungrier half eats those who can't defend themselves. Rescue may or may not arrive in time, if at all. If we don't start acting like we are on our own in a world so totally deceived that all we do is argue and act violently, then we are all lost. Cheer up. There's always something I'm not saying.
I'd post the NBC "The More You Know" logo but it's satanic too.
Ha, ha..did you know Satan is also known as the dog star, Sirius?
This is from a 33rd degree Mason called Jim Shaw.
"The Freemasons have Sirius as their focus. It is known as the Eastern Star, which is a name for the Freemasonic organisation that allows women to become initiates. Sirius is the first star to rise in the east in the latitudes of Egypt. It is also the symbol of Satanism. A circle around the star Sirius (the pentagram) is used to attract demons."
Set/Sirius is portrayed by Black Magick Satanists as the "Devil of Darkness" and the Lord of the Underworld", according to New Age author, M. Esther Harding, in her book, Woman's Mysteries: Ancient and Modern , New York, G.P. Putnam's Sons for the C.G. Jung Foundation For Analytical Psychology, 1971 Edition, p. 48, and 168 respectively].
Further, Harding reveals that this "Underworld' over which Set/Sirius is charge is not Hades, but Tartarus, for "Tartarus is the hell of the damned and it was of this world that Set was the Lord". Schnoebelen then adds the caveat that Set's symbol is the Inverted Pentagram! Thus, the filthy Satanic Pentagram represents Sirius/Set , by whatever name the occultist uses.
http://www.cuttingedge.org/News/n1487.cfmThe five pointed star is the symbol of a man. and ALLAH the master of the universe is just an anagram for arm, leg, leg, arm, head. the body of a man. The inverse is a perversion of the "natural" man standing upright, so it creates a "goatman" or beast. The beast is supposed to represent satan, or whatever, but actually, the symbolism merely represents the darkside of man--a beast. 666 is his number the number of man.
It doesn't matter what side the star it, it's both Satanic.
Image: Aleister Crowley, infamous Satanist, who called himself "The Beast 666".
In Revelation, the number of the Beast, the Anti-Christ, is 666.
Do you know the history of the Allah? He was one of many moon gods worshiped by pagans until Mohammed made him the supreme and only moon god. That is why Islam is associated with the crescent moon.I am aware of who Aleister Crowley is. The beast 666 comes from using hebrew letters and numbers applied to his name. Have fun with that one. But still in ancient hebrew 1 and 1000 are the same number. the Alpha and Omega so to speak. in between them is 999. when you flip it like you do a star its 666.These are simple masonic teachings here. So basically it is like saying man in the middle. you know middle earth. all those clever hints no one gets. You know who HER MAN Cain is? His name literally is the hermaphrodite king. (that is who they worship) The hermaphrodite king is the mind. The male and female hemispheres of it. They call him many names but the most popular is Lucifer the light bring. What a bright idea eh? Herman Cain's tax plan? 999? Yeah you get it now. You are right about how they just put it out there. But it is only for laughs for those with eyes to see and ears to hear. All is a mirror image. It is true we are in an occult system but it is NOT Satan worship. It is the worship of man "perfected." They who run the whole show believe they are the perfected man, a higher species. And all they did was adopt the original pagan symbols and mirrored them or "perfected" them. You obviously do not read much into the higher orders. Yes there are only 33 rungs on Jacobs Ladder. But Life begins at 40. And a circle has 360 degrees-->The Rolling Stone. okay? You are making a fool out of yourself. I am a self "enlightened" human being. I am not a mason. Masonry is for fools at the bottom. The useful idiots who pay each other off and get little favors here and there. They have massive egos because they teach them they have "virtue" and they are just so important. haha. I am only 20 btw. To get where I am took 3 years. But hey, once you know, you KNOW. Then you can see how weak this whole system run by psychopaths really is. It is good that you are trying to fight it, but they will eventually come for you and I. Hope you know where you will be going after death. The ending is only the beginning my friend<---I learned this from Toy Story.
oh what an interesting world we are in :]
Try not to let your life pass you by, I know this stuff can really suck weeks away from you. That is it's other purpose. There is too much information to digest. If you want any help you can send me a message.Haven't I heard of middle earth before? It's interesting what you say about man in the middle. There's a man in the middle of a pentagram, the star pointing upwards. So the stars we see incessantly means 666? What does that say about the US, Syria flag, etc? I hear that Cain's name is not his real name. I hear Cain is supposed to represent Tabul-Cain. Also hermaphrodite reminds me of something...Baphomet. Who do you think offers the perfection of man? Satan. They believe they are a superior species but perfection only comes with their Christ consciousness. I'm making a fool of myself? Whatever. A foolish person doesn't believe Satan exists.
In order to get to a point where you have a FULL and I mean, FULL understanding of what is going on, you will have to let go of your indoctrination. Religion I mean. Religion means to rebind. RE tie. That means you are binding yourself (mind) to a set of faith based dogma. Religion was never meant to free you at all. You say the world is run by powerful people who hide behind symbols. Well, there you go right there. They RULE the world. Do you not know the VICTORS write the histories? How do you even know the Bible is true? Because an expert/preacher/priest told you? FYI Pastors, Priest, Clergy are all Masons. MASS is for the masses. Behind closed doors, the priests have their own religion. It is indeed sun, moon, and stellar worship. Lemme ask you something, if these men are in contact with some entity, why worship metaphors? Why not just worship the thing directly? Another thing, as you go deeper, you will find out all symbols have MANY meanings. The Pentagram has various levels to it. I suggest you use all your acquired knowledge and apply it rationally. Do not take your indoctrination with you. That is another trick of the elect. Electric. Get it? This is another hint for you.
I'm going to be honest, Erickcb, it sounds like you have exchanged one religion for another. Sun, moon, and stellar worship? Worshiping the entity behind metaphors? The pentagram as a mysterious thing -- instead of just a geometric shape -- which has various "levels?" Tricks of the "elect?"
I think you might want to take your acquired knowledge and apply it rationally.No no. You have misread. My point is there is no "entity" to worship. It was a question. Why worship metaphors, symbols, etc. if you are in touch with some entity? Why not just create the image of the entity and worship that. It is merely a idea they worship and it is really complex to just tell someone what it is in a few lines. I have done my own "reading up" on the occult, and have talked some people who are higher up in the orders of Masonry. Claire has valid points. She is wrong however, when she insists it is Satan. Satan is just Santa and also NATSA/natsi. And believe it or not all three come from the same "idea." It really is there if you know who to talk to and how.. There is a lot of things the regular people out there just do not see because they have not had first hand contact with some of these people.
That's an awful lot to claim without providing any evidence, Erickcb.
My evidence is based off first hand experience. Like I said, these are merely my experiences with these people and their writings. If you want the kind of proof, I claim I have, go talk to some of them. Read some of their books. The world is being led on an agenda that is far older than most people think. The obvious proof can be seen without any research. Look around. Where are we headed? Who controls the direction the world goes? The common folk? Consent to it maybe, but never steering the ship directly. Culture comes from the top down. Plato said that. He was part of the high aristocracy in his day. I would say he knew a few things the commoners didn't. These men like Plato; John F. Kennedy, Abraham Lincoln (my favorite president) Woodrow Wilson (in his later days) Bertrand Russell, Carroll Quigley, Charles Darwin (his grandfather too), Julian Huxley(and his family), Brzezinski, H.G. Wells, Rockefeller, and the like, all had the keys to "higher" societal realms. What they tell you openly in their writings is really interesting. Some of it isn't 100% fact, but there are similarities they speak of all down through history on how to control the masses. This is the stuff I pick up on. I am not here to convince anyone. I merely am trying to tell a person who seems to be realizing secret societies exist, and it is worth it to me to point them in the right direction.
I've read every author you list -- sometimes extensively -- with the exception of Brzezinski, who I haven't read at all. The only one who elaborates much on secret societies is Carroll Quigley. Still, a good list.
And what about there being a ruling scientific dictatorship that has long existed and will presumably always exist? >>Huxley?
I would love to have a conversation about these men in depth with you one day.
:]
Not many people in my generation out there who share my enthusiasm in these areas. Hence, the fact that I use HubPages more frequently than Facebook. Much more stimulating conversation on this site.
Also I highly recommend you read the Grand Chessboard and Between Two Ages. Two of the most boring, yet.. interesting books I've read to date. Both by Brzezinski. Did you know the Darwins only married in with one other family? The Wedge woods? Talk about Social Darwinism. Haha. What I never understood is that many of these highly aristocratic families marry into only one or two other families on their family trees. You would think a ruling class of people would understand FULLY the implications of such a small DNA pool...
Anyway, I think we share some of the same views on certain things no doubt since you have read into these things as have I. Good to speak with you. Maybe we should carry on one day in a new forum topic?And come on man. JFK murdered after he gave his speech on secret societies ten days after the Bay of Pigs? Well... it IS debatable of course WHO and WHAT EXACTLY he was referring to.. But a man, such as him, given the conspiracy around him and his death, I think it is in my favor to say, he was murdered by people who were indeed apart of "secret societies and secret proceedings"
Don't assume I'm indoctrinated. Being religious is different from having a personal relationship with Christ. I am fully aware that the victors write history. That is why it is all a big lie. How do I know the Bible is true? Good question! I've done research into paganism and the occult in the Old Testament thus most does not reflect my God. It cannot be trusted in its entirety. As for the New Testament, people can argue that many things are made up. How do we know that's right? Only by having a relationship with Jesus otherwise skepticism will always be a factor when it comes to the Bible. Those in the occult will often use metaphors because their secrets are only meant to be understand by them. Can they get the masses to worship Satan by revealing who he really is? Or could they associate him with the sun which the masses know is the life-giver.
You say the pentagram has various levels to it. So tell me, what do you think the upside down pentragram in the 2012 Campaign means? What was the reason for that symbol being there?
Hi, I'm Satan and I'm growing quite irritated at you people aligning me with these scumbag Republicans. I am being totally misrepresented here. Stop this thread now, or you will hear from my lawyer.
Well, you aren't him..
But you sure seem to want to be him.Funny!
But isn't it a relief, and a joy to know that there is no such nonsense as Satan?
Mercedes Benz have a three pointed star. Does that mean they are led by a low calorie low fat low carb Satan?
Of course not... That is the sign of the trinity...Haven't you noticed, almost every TV preacher drives a Benz...it is a religious car...
Now that reminds me of a Mercedes TV advert that had a song that went "oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz....."
The sad thing here is science proves energy is eternal, never made, and never used up..
So in essence is proof of supernatural things and eternity, and while you are all laughing at Claire's seeing eyes, you are blind to obvious clues not because you couldn't see things if you tried, but you refuse it because it isn't 'cool' or even 'normal' to look past physical..
And while you think Claire is so lost, when she is giving you things to look into, all the little minions are laughing at you thinking you're so so smart..
See, thing is.. People aren't afraid of things when they 'think' they're safe..
You find out Satan is really there one day, and catch him looking at you through a window and you might find out you aren't so untouchable or tough anymore.
I've found that things that seem impossible, well...
They aren't so impossible after all.
And the clocks going to stop one day.
Surprize...Vector, please tell me you don't buy into this insanity. I've never read a more pitiful thread. You do realize that the star used in the Obama campaign picture had to be turned that way, in order to have the stars on the flag show up the best?
Aesthetics is not a synonym for Satan, except maybe in bizarro Claire land.LOL satan? You dont believe in Santa too do you?
Apparently there are monsters under his bed too...staring at him.
!Satan made him post this thread, because my soul dose not subscribe to Satan written from sheep herders and or people who die young because they lived out in the sun (son) too long
There is a difference between the Satan/Devil archetype and the Prometheus/Lucifer one. One is the Bringer of Light, one is a destroyer.
The Pentagram is a sun symbol, as most religions have their basis in this history. I know it personally as a symbol of the five elements.
The all seeing eye, the pentagram and various sun symbols are the first choice for corporate symbols. Why, I don't know.They are the same being. Satan is the Prince of Darkness but comes as an angel of light. Sun worship is Satanism.
The book The Two Babylons stated that the worship of the serpent was always universally associated with the sun. Quoting Rev. A. Hislop: "Along with the sun, as the great fire-god, and, in due time, identified with him, was the serpent worshipped. … In the mythology of the primitive world… the serpent is universally the symbol of the sun. "In Egypt, one of the commonest symbols of the sun, or sun-god, is a disc with a serpent around it (p. 227)."
Quoting the book Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky, it states that worship of the dragon and the sun were universal on the earthplane. "The tradition of the Dragon and the Sun is echoed in every part of the world.…There was a time when the four parts of the world were covered with the temples sacred to the Sun and the Dragon: but the cult is now preserved mostly in China and the Buddhist countries (p. 378-9, V. II)." The dragon, however, is not the middle age concept of a beast with wings breathing fire, but is, in reality, a snake.
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him (Rev. 12:9 NKJV).
But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent (Rev. 12:14. NKJV).
So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood (Rev 12:15. NKJV).
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years (Rev. 20:2; NKJV).
For their power is in their mouth and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents, having heads; and with them they do harm (Rev. 9:19 NKJV).
Alexander Hislop in his book The Two Babylons, p. 226 quotes, “The beginning, then, of sun-worship, and of the worship of the host of heaven, was a sin against the light—a presumptuous, heaven-daring sin.”
“The sun, as the great source of light and heat, was worshipped under the name of Baal. … The sun, under that name, was worshipped in the earliest ages of the world…” (ibid. p. 226)
I don't think I have to introduce you to Baal.
This is why Freemasonry revolves around serpent and sun worship.
It's so easy to connect the dots when you get the hang of it.
http://www.plim.org/2Luciferian.htm
Because they're Satanists.Yes, but an individual would need to step back from the christian myths in order to see the whole picture.
Not actually. I get my information not from Christian but occultists themselves and what the occult really is and not anything made up.
All of these symbols have to do with Pagan worship. From my understanding, Pagan religion revolves around worshiping the stars, the sun, the moon, the planets, and the earth itself "Mother Earth"... Which is why "going green" is being almost forced on us. The leaders of the world want us all to take care of the earth for the sake of their so called "goddess", Demeter. She has a few other names spanning thru different cultures, but this is the reason why the governments are so concerned with "saving" the earth... Yet is is not the earth that needs saving, it is them.
Right. It's evil to recycle. I should have known.
I know, right? Every year, after I open all my birthday presents, one of my favorite things to do is gather them all into a little pile, drop my drawers, and take a big, steaming dump on them.
So when God gives me an entire planet as a gift, why not do the same thing? Because not crapping on the gifts God gives us is totally playing into Satan's hands, am I right?And the reason God is not so happy with the Human race and allowing the continued reign of "satan"...Very few respect the gifts he has given them...
What happens to humans when we completely kill our planet? Or are we all counting on the return of Jesus to happen before that does? Or is that in and of itself gonna be the trigger for the "rapture" to take place?
Seeing as the majority of the people on this planet are believers in one form or another and believe in a higher power that placed us all here and given us the wonderful planet to live on during our lifespans...One would think, they would appreciate it a hair more than they do...But it is typical of humans...No respect or appreciation for anything, but want everything handed to them with little to no effort on their part....Faith without works...Bah...I have seen very little work from the Believers as of late....but a whole lot of Faith....Something for nothing...It's what the symbols represent that matter. The stars represent Ishtar, the sun Baal, the moon the devil as well. "Going green" is just an expose to impose carbon taxes. Impose carbon taxes are third world countries and they become more indebted to them. Why would they care about Mother Earth, Gaia, when they nuke power plants, drop uranium bombs on countries, cause oil spills, etc?
I don't think the symbols prove anything, but If you don't believe that we are headed toward a world where the leaders get their power from satan, then you either don't understand the Bible or just don't believe it.
This doesn't make sense. So you believe that world leaders WILL get their power from Satan and don't already?
For the Reader,
Until the late 14th century, there are no historical documents or major references to demons or an entity named Satan. Prior documents were used by European churches, to create such things as Dante's Inferno and the Seven Deadly Sins [which are actually not apart of the canonized texts].
The term satan, transliterate, is in adjective form, not proper form or noun/name.
Torah contains no reference to any entity named Satan, but many references to ha-satan, again in the adjective form.
This title was designed and determined by the churches to promote morality and provide answer to such inflictions as depression, laziness (Sloth, or Belphapor, one of the seven princes of hell), etc.
The title was then attached to a singular -and only- reference to another term known as lucem ferre, lightbearer, messenger, now known the world over, as Lucifer. Yet, no document in all of human history provides further account of this supposed enemy of mankind. It would only make sense that should such a being even exist, the One who made man would have told us all about it, and all those supposed 'fallen' angels (messengers of light) as well.
In actuality, the word demon in Latin, to Germanic (English) was written incorrectly, because of it similarity to dæmon. A dæmon is also a good messenger or spirit (see Platos Symposium) from Greek Mythology. Because the use of the a-e combination, the 'a' was later dropped and demon became the word used to describe the evils of man -by displacing those acts upon entities born in paganism.
It is widely known that from the 5th to 15th century, the churches were deeply involved with ba`al practices and inclusive mythological ideologies, dating back centuries and used those tales to imply these entities existed.
Are the leaders of nations still practicing ba`alism? Certainly, but it does not mean they are controlled by entities, that have never been proven to exist. In actuality, the concept of demonology was made fun of in Hebrew culture and did not appear until canonized Christianity was formed.
Those who argue will state Y`shua dealt with "demons", like legion, but one who reads it understands the person he was dealing with had schizophrenia. Because the word demon does not appear in the text, it was dæmon that appears. Any affliction, wound/sore, strong sickness, even drunkenness was considered 'unclean' spirit. Not at all 'evil' or demonic', just a goodness of spirit that was 'unclean'.
In short, there is no proof of such an entity existing named Satan or Lucifer.
There is no proof of 'demons' aka fallen angels existing.
These are pagan stories, told by post-pagan theologians.
Sidebar: The Puritans thoroughly rejected the concept of demons/demonology.
Alas, these stories resurfaced, in the States, as the the WW's & Great Depression hit.
A time when social chaos was peaking and alcoholism/consumption was huge, because of fast talking, ego driven, money making, holistic charlatans.
It is exactly the same time frame when 'healing ministers', like Wigglesworth, McPhearson, Lake, etc, emerged -replacing snake-oil revival healers, who were very popular from the late 16th to 18th centuries. Modern Christianity is still holding on to the precise teachings of these 19th century 'revival' preachers.
Today, much of those snake-oil, holistic charlatans, are found in marketing companies for energy drinks, weight loss,etc. Perhaps Red Bull is the 'devil' or perhaps INXS was right, every single one of us, has a 'devil' inside, because there certainly is no proof of such entities existing in human history outside.
image source: making sense of maths [dot] com.
Not the 'devils' apple, although it does form a 5 pointed star and has precisely 9 points forming a circle around the star...
James.You bring up some interesting points, but...just for example...
If the existence of devils runs contrary to Christian teachings, who tempted Jesus in the wilderness?Excellent Question, Eric.
While I should write an article(s) on this topic, I will give the short answer.
First, it is not 'who' but 'what' tempted Y`shua.
It is the same what that tested Jobs character -meaning the truth he proclaimed as being right-minded. A test of heart versus ego.
Same 'what' that tested Moshe, Isaiah and Elijah.
With power, comes great responsibility.
Y`shua was born without the blindness of the Adamic Inception. Unlike those before him, who experienced a glimpse of their true nature -a powerful creation, uniting heaven-earth- he knew full well the measure of that power. Although his heart was in right-mindedness, the ego or mind can easily take up shop.
Imagine, with the level of understanding and actual power/ability, what he could have done.
Looking at the items he was tested in, clearly indicates a battle of mind over heart.
First, we see the metaphoric connection of 40, regarding possibly the flood rains and wandering in the desert, until the mentality of slavery was wiped away from the Israelites.
Son of G-d command stone to bread. This symbolizes the same ability of the prophets, like calling down fire from heaven. The power of Creator was on his lips to yield as he saw fit. The temptation to misuse that power existed strongly, especially when reflected to a basic human necessity -hunger. Misusing the power of words or ruach given to each of us. By worshiping his ego, yielding the power and temptation of control, he could of had over the temple, the law and Jerusalem -even the known world itself at the time. This even happened during his walk. People referenced him as king and such, setting off a series of events, that the law-makers and Rome did not like. Just a few of the things he -and we- have the ability to do, could easily consume people and push a person to the status of a 'god on earth'. Even to the smallest level he used that power.
ha-satan (mind/ego) battles for control & for control of that power. No doubt exhausting to the point of madness. I suppose all of us have had moments like these on certain levels.
James
Steady on James, someone might look at your apple with the 5 pointed star arrangement of seeds and proclaim it as evidence that Satan tempted Eve with an apple. All apples and their seed are the seed of Satan. Arrgghhh.
Keep in mind the OP is undergoing electro convulsive treatments for mental illness (according to one of her hubs). There is no sense arguing with this woman. She suffers from extreme paranoia and sees conspiracies everywhere. You cannot convince her that she is wrong. She reads books written by people of a similar mentality to confirm her delusions and in her mind this amounts to proof that she is right and the rest of us are wrong.
She looks at the world through the distorting lens of conspiracy and all the rational arguments in the world will not change her mind. Change has to come from within. I would suggest that people stop trying to enlighten her and just ignore her posts.Hey, the hub of hers that I read (and yes I watched the videos) was spot-on and made not only common sense but Spiritual sense. She exposed the lie that is New Age religion, which has become incorporated into so much of our mental health system and into even some Churches. She's got enough sense to not be swayed by Oprah Winfrey's silly ideas and other people's silly theories.
I suggest you stop judging a Hubber's state of mind, especially when there is evidence to the contrary of your judgement! And I challenge you to write a better hub. Or heck to even write ONE. LOL. Otherwise, perhaps it's YOUR posts that people should start ignoring.I think it is time to educate yourself. Major depression is on the rise globally and Electro Convulsive Therapy has been proven to effectively treat it. It stimulates the brain to secrete more serotonin, which makes us feel normal and helps us cope in life. Depressed people are deprived of fully having serotonin. So it has nothing to do with psychosis.
Many people with depression are terrified of the stigma. They are terrified of being called a nut and refuse treatment. Then they go onto to commit suicide. It is people like you that people kill themselves. Proud of that?
The reason why I wrote those hubs is not only for therapeutic purposes but to educate people. There is nothing to be ashamed of to suffer from major depression.Claire, sorry........but you cannot separate depression from psychosis. It is an illness of the psyche - the mind. Whether it's a depletion of serotonin or not, it is still a psychosis.
You could argue that depression is on the rise because of the level of control and lack of freedoms. When it comes to chemical imbalances one must look at the chicken and egg scenario. What caused the depletion of serotonin? Causes are diet, stress, anxiety. The last two are to do with psychosis.
Depression has naught to do with being a nutter. Nutters are usually happy!+++++++++. Depression is indeed a serious illness. Anyone who is afflicted with this illness should seek psychological or psychiatric counselling. Depression is nothing to laugh at.
Definition of psychosis:
Psychosis is a symptom or feature of mental illness typically characterized by radical changes in personality, impaired functioning, and a distorted or nonexistent sense of objective reality.
Description
Patients suffering from psychosis have impaired reality testing; that is, they are unable to distinguish personal subjective experience from the reality of the external world. They experience hallucinations and/or delusions that they believe are real, and may behave and communicate in an inappropriate and incoherent fashion. Psychosis may appear as a symptom of a number of mental disorders, including mood and personality disorders. It is also the defining feature of schizophrenia, schizophreniform disorder, schizoaffective disorder, delusional disorder, and the psychotic disorders (i.e., brief psychotic disorder, shared psychotic disorder, psychotic disorder due to a general medical condition, and substance-induced psychotic disorder).
A person who is insane, or the medical term for it psychosis, cannot tell the different between right and wrong.
Insanity. n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.
Therefore, psychosis is not synonymous with major depression. They are just different branches of mental illness.
Having said that, bipolar people are prone to psychotic episodes.
It is utterly appalling how little people know about depression.It is appalling.
I use the word psychotic as being a more severe form of mental illness. Anything to do with the mind is psyche........xyz. Psychiatry, psychology, psychosis, psychotic.
There are several levels of depression from mild to severe. But again the question remains - is it depression that creates the lowering of serotonin or is it the lower levels of serotonin that cause depression. The jury is out as to whether chemical reactions are created by moods or moods create chemical reactions.But don't you understand that someone with major depression doesn't automatically suffer from psychosis? I know the difference between right and wrong and I don't hallucinate. I'll ask my psychiatrist if I'm psychotic. I think I already know what he is going to say.
In my case, depression was caused by stress which lowered my serotonin levels. Depression being genetic in my case, my brain would be susceptible to this. However, sometimes people get depressed for no reason whatsoever. They can have the greatest life but still be depressed. I think it can go either way.I do know the difference Claire, I've been working in the field for over 10 years. It was your wording. I am not saying you are psychotic. Depression always has a reason, it's just people can look in the wrong place to find the answers to it's origins. There are different origins for different people. Having a predisposition to it does not mean it's a life sentence either. I hope you get on top of it, it's not a nice place to be.
"Major depression is on the rise globally and Electro Convulsive Therapy has been proven to effectively treat it. "
Claire, the medical term for your analysis is 'bullshit'. Wanna get plugged into the mains for a few seconds, just to see if it changes your views for the better? You're hypothesising, but I'm talking from experience.
Perhaps if you read the Lucifer Principal you'd understand what constitutes a meme and the influence of the Ahrimanic Agenda on the world. It is most unfortunate, and at the core of what is unstable on this planet, that evil is projected outward. Meaning that everyone who wants to banish evil is saying everything outside is evil and yet never looks inward to see the part of them that hates. We live in a world of blame - it is all that is done to us that is the problem. Owning the part of us that is capable of evil and that is hateful is a bitter pill to swallow. It is why it is so easy to blame someone else.
The kingdom of God is within, and so is evil. Yet modern day christian teachings is hell bent on blaming everyone else for what ails the world. The correct passing of the knowledge of the Dragon or snake, is that within each of us is both light and dark. The Dragon, or that which is deep within all of us is a corruptable principle within. The knowledge of the Dragon or snake is unfortunately tainted by ignorance and fear. The depths of us is laden with the most exquisite of human experiences. (The closest most will get is by having good sex). It is what makes us complete as human beings. The saying "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" is in the realm of the Dragon/Snake within.
In some spiritual paths it is by encompassing those riches that makes us whole. It is by facing the dragon, owning it's power that one can triumph. Integrity is the key however. In modern day Christian teachings we are to turn away from this part of ourselves. How is that making one divine when we only see half of ourselves? Not a good doctrine to ignore what we are.
I didn't see an expose of New Age Deception in Claire's hub. I saw Claire's reaction, or non opening to what could have helped her. It is very true there is a lot of nonsense in new age circles. Same as there is a lot of nonsense and deception in modern Christian teachings. Yet Claire herself has done what appears to be a lot of reading of new age books which she has expressed in this thread.
Corruption in the world is as much brought on by the ignorant as it is by the 1% who drive it. That makes 99% of the world Satan followers by default. Ignorance is the realm of Satanic influence. So beautifully subliminal and subtle.
By the way, if you do read the Luciferic Principal, understand that a meme is primarily something we are unconscious of. So beautifully orchestrated that we have no sense we are influenced by it. And yet we are influenced by several of them all at once.
Apologies for war and peace!I've never claimed that everything outside is evil. What is your definition of the kingdom of God within you? I think serpents have been tainted by those who worship it. Wanting to achieve divinehood is considered blasphemy. We can never be on par with God.
It wouldn't be possible for a New Ager to be one and know they are being deceived.The kingdom of God is within are words spoken by Jesus according to the bible. It is also known in other traditions to be the same. It is by going inward that one finds the kingdom of heaven. it is within through reflection and solitude - Christians call it prayer, other modalities call it meditation. And also by change/transformation that one cleanses oneself of evil thoughts etc.
There is major misunderstanding on the myth of the serpent. It is important to love thyself as one would love God and this includes the entirety of self including the part that is tempted by the serpent.
I don't understand your last sentence, could you clarify? "It wouldn't be possible for a New ager to be one and know they are being deceived." Do you mean a devil worshiper?
I watched the Devil's Advocate. It was a great movie and depicted the beautiful deception. It is as much true for Christians as it is for Muslims and Hindu's and Buddhists. The Ahrimanic agenda encompasses everyone. Christians particularly are under the hypnotic influence of a meme. Again you have no understanding or consciousness of it unless you see the mechanisms that you are influenced by.I used to watch a woman whom they put on public access for a while. She said the same thing. Don't run from your fears and ugliness...meet them head on. Then go deeper to see what's behind them. Reminds me of Carl Yung...the stairway leading down-- deeper into your subconsious...the realm where we all live.
If I remember her name, I will post it..because she must be on you tube.
Another one I like for her message? Joyce something....a tv preacher. (dang my memory!)
I'm starting to doubt if there is any IQ in these type of conspiracy thinkers. I am happy that i'm not in her neighborhood.
Would normalcy bias suit you better? If the Jews who stayed behind in Nazi Germany had been willing to listen to "conspiracy theories" about Hitler, they might have survived, instead of falling victim to the Holocaust.
Looking for patterns is a good thing. Scientists do it all the time. Not all patterns are meaningful, but judging someone's IQ doesn't help. It's possible that there is nothing to what they say, but then again, it's possible that those who are pretending to listen merely don't understand. It takes humility to make new discoveries.I am not going to be hard on you for that, Claire. I am from a country where TV series directors choose to use k word in every series title because of numerologists. People here plan kids based on their film star or sports stars birthday. Good things/events scheduled based on lunar cycle. Astrologers here dont know the gravity and rotation of planets but they know which one is more or less powerful in sunsign. So you see, i'm not surprised with your theories. But what you're doing is falling in borderline paranoia. Enjoy it till you realize this type of thinking is yet another conspiracy meta-trolling. I'll just have my lol moments.
I set a Google alert for my name and what do I find but y'alls talking up a storm about me! You know I save a place in Hell for all of y'alls. Especially my homegirl Claire, she my biggest fan! Girl, you know you my favorite!
Clair, I don't doubt that some or possibly all world leaders are worshiping "Mammon" or "Satan" or "ego."
I suspect that they like to use symbols (five-pointed and six-pointed stars, pentagrams, "11," "33" and others), because they are basing their "power" upon the realm of "continuity" (physical reality).
But I wouldn't say that the use of a five-pointed star is "proof" of Satan worship. Also "satan," as originally used in the Bible, merely meant "opposer." One of these "satans" worked for God and opposed Balaam on his way to work against Moses.
Sometimes asking bold questions can be more powerful than making equally bold statements.
Do the bad guys really use symbols and signs to strengthen their position? I saw a recent YouTube video which included a rather interesting screen shot from the 1999 movie, "Matrix." It showed Thomas Anderson's (Neo's) passport with an expiration date of 9/11/2001! Interesting choice of expiration dates -- nearly two-and-a-half years in the future from the movie's release date.
Would someone who knew of the coming disaster have purposefully planted a sign of it in a blockbuster movie? The clip which includes this tidbit was on the screen for only half a second and upside down! It would take a "conspiracy nut" to track this down. (Just call me nuts!)
New Agers, occultists, bankers and New World Order fans depend on the continuity of the physical world. They depend upon incantations and interest tables. Having millions of people admire a movie which contains a symbol of their coming greed (9/11) is a powerful incantation. The fact that it gains unwitting participation from its audience makes it all the more sinister and powerful, at least perhaps in their eyes.
In the last interview the late Aaron Russo gave to Alex Jones (~2006), Mr. Russo revealed that Nick Rockefeller had told him in late 2000 about an upcoming event which would allow them (the Rockefeller family and their friends) to take over Iraq and Afghanistan. This was eleven months before 9/11. In one YouTube video, I learned from a demolitions expert how the three buildings in New York could not have come down without precisely timed destruction of each key support. The airplane was merely a diversion. Another YouTube video showing an interview in Danish of a Danish scientist (with English subtitles) reveals that there was nano-thermite in the dust of 9/11. This substance burns super-hot and is perfect for cutting through steel beams. By the amount of unspent nano-thermite found in the 9/11 dust, the scientist estimates that the original quantity would've been between 10-100 tonnes! And this is a highly rare, dangerous and manufactured substance.
So, yes. Someone in high places in American politics and finance knew about 9/11 long before it happened. They knew the exact date, if the "Matrix" movie is any indication. And they are planning, as Aaron Russo put it, to have us all microchipped, without which all buying and selling would become impossible. And God knew about this over 2000 years ago. See Revelation 13 and the number of the beast.Apprently, there is a new movie coming out about the 2012 Olympics too....depicting the mass murder of thousands of people....
I read somewhere once that the "rules of the game" are that you have to "get permission" before you perpetrate something on the people of the world...
So they put out little news items. Or movies. Or music-- that states their intentions.
In this way, they have "permission" to "do what thou wilt".
The Bible....hello! The story of our destruction? Or clues for us to stop it?
Plenty things make you go Hmmmmm.
Look at this:
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=11933
Notice the hand-shake too?
and what Claire posted:
"Throughout the last 2,000 years this symbol has designated hatred of Christians. Nero, who despised Christians, crucified the Apostle Peter on a cross head downward. This hideous event resembled the Teutonic cross and became a popular pagan insignia of the day. Thereafter, this sign became known as the 'Neronic cross.'
Lady Gaga has this inverted cross in 2 of her videos...that I know of. "Bad Romance", and "Alejandro"...which is total blasphemy. And I'm not even Catholic!
But--this inverted cross symbol is placed where? On her crotch.
Then just yesterday, JLo's new video comes out. What is depicted? An orgy.
Pretty blatant if you ask me. Madonna: her "Girls Gone Wild" video...men, bare-chested, but wearing black stockings and high-heeled shoes. MDNA...really? Madonna's going to direct our DNA?
Either it's a huge hoax, or they are coming right out and showing their allegiance. And everyone acts like it's normal...
Symbols rule the world, I agree with you Claire.That link, what a load of old nonsense. Ooh watch out people, if you wear red and black together, you suck satan's toes.
google "masonic handshake"...just for kicks.
Because they are weird little secret handshake people that lie in front of cameras because people go "ooh watch out people.." and lie about everything they do with people covering their tracks because "that's so like, ugh, impossible.."
"Our government is untouchable, non-corrupt, and they believe in truth!"
Ok.. sure.. that statement should make it obvious.
What's the opposite of that anyway?
Oh yeah....
Our leaders worship a concept... A foolish concept, created by fools, for fools.
Christian Nation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pcFYEJnLtQ
Isn't money known as Mammon? Can't worship both mammon and god
Greed has more to do with gain than just mere money....
Personally, I think we should be spending our time searching for God in the world rather than looking for signs of the devil.
"Seek and you shall find," remember? Why are you seeking Satan?Exactly. The world doesn't need another Don Quixote looking for evil wherever they can find it. It serves no purpose.
She didn't (or isn't). [Not attempting to pick sides, but I relate]
It's no different than Jesus telling the Pharisees and Scribes they were of their father the devil because they said Christ was a liar. They tried to hide their evil thoughts, but more than once Jesus spoke the truth about someone's hidden intentions.
She has had experiences that lead her to see something needing to be revealed, not hidden or left to fester and infect things worse without letting 'someone' who needs to know and is willing to look.
Much of what she posts is verified in scripture, and it corresponds with Biblical predictions.
Jesus said when the fig tree's branches turn green and tender you know spring is near.
The earth is the tree, and Claire is just telling something that Jesus wants told.
At least from what I know of her she seeks Christ and serves Him.
And it's not easy being in her shoes either. I know that for certain."And it's not easy being in her shoes either"
I think most people would agree with that.
Joyce Meyer. Mmm there's a shallow one.
Was responding to a post regarding the Joyce televangelist.
Only one I know of is Joyce Meyer.Yes--I like her a lot. Her message resonates with me.
"The September 11 attacks killed 3000 people, the ensuing 'War' on terror has killed 1.5 million Iraqi and Afghani children."
Yeah, I can see how muslims profited from 9/11.....snark.
Lot of American soldiers killed too......but SOME people got mighty rich.(short-selling the day before) And some people got many enemies killed, and have their enemies looked on with suspicion throughout the world.
Conspiracy, or plan?It's a conspiracy.
I personally find it rather amusing when some people call believers deluded yet believe Al Qaeda was behind 9-11 with no evidence to back it up.
As they say, follow the money trail. President Bush's company Carlyse Group got mighty rich from the Iraq invasion in 2003.
What did Osama get? Nothing. He was stone cold in his grave.
Slightly confused on your points here...
Al Qaeda claimed responsiblity. So even if they didn't do it, they still took credit for it.
And Osama wasn't dead in 2003...He was killed Spring of 2011.
Personally, Other than the actual terrorists on the plane, I don't know for positive sure nor do I pretend to know for positive sure , who was behind the attacked of 9/11. They happened. A group claimed responsiblity. That group is held accountable.Where's your evidence that they claimed responsibility?
CNN article in which bin Laden denied involvement in 9-11:
"Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.
In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, "The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.
"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said."
http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-16/us/i … r?_s=PM:US
Up until last year, Osama was never wanted for 9-11. Here is his description of the FBI's most wanted list:
"USAMA BIN LADEN IS WANTED IN CONNECTION WITH THE AUGUST 7, 1998, BOMBINGS OF THE UNITED STATES EMBASSIES IN DAR ES SALAAM, TANZANIA, AND NAIROBI, KENYA. THESE ATTACKS KILLED OVER 200 PEOPLE. IN ADDITION, BIN LADEN IS A SUSPECT IN OTHER TERRORIST ATTACKS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD."
I had the "wanted poster" for quite some time but it has been removed now that he has been declared deceased.
Rex Tom, FBI Director of Investigative Publictiy stated in this regard that
“The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice then decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? … p;aid=3246
As for Osama's death. He was known to have suffered from kidney failure. He needed dialysis to survive. That was a result of Marfan syndrome that he had. He was dying in July 2001 and was visited by the CIA in a Dubai hospital.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/no … .terrorism
The thought of Osama living in caves in Afghanistan with a dialysis machine makes me laugh.
Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, said Osama died in April 2002
http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-us-gove … -flag.html
And, of course, the situation room photo of Obama and Hilary and others looking at live footage of Osama's "assassination", where Hilary dramatically put her hand over her mouth, has been revealed to be staged.
"Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, revealed there was a 25 minute blackout during which the live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the US special forces was cut off.
A photograph released by the White House appeared to show President Barack Obama and his aides in the situation room watching the action as it unfolded. In fact they had little knowledge of what was happening in the compound.
In an interview with PBS, Mr Panetta said: "Once those teams went into the compound I can tell you that there was a time period of almost 20 or 25 minutes where we really didn't know just exactly what was going on. And there were some very tense moments as we were waiting for information."
Absolute fail.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … pound.html
Worse still, the Pentagon had to concede it has no record of Osama's "assassination".
Richard Lardner reports for the Minneapolis Star Tribune, March 15, 2012:
Government officials have openly discussed details of the mission [to kill Osama bin Laden] in speeches, interviews and television appearances, but the administration won’t disclose records that would confirm their narrative of that fateful night. The Associated Press asked for files about the raid in more than 20 separate [FOIA] requests, mostly submitted the day after bin Laden’s death.
The Pentagon told the AP this month it could not locate any photographs or video taken during the raid or showing bin Laden’s body. It also said it could not find any images of bin Laden’s body on the Navy aircraft carrier where the al-Qaida leader’s body was taken.
The Pentagon said it could not find any death certificate, autopsy report or results of DNA identification tests for bin Laden, or any pre-raid materials discussing how the government planned to dispose of bin Laden’s body if he were killed.
It said it searched files at the Pentagon, U.S. Special Operations Command in Tampa, Fla., and the Navy command in San Diego that controls the USS Carl Vinson, the aircraft carrier used in the mission.
The Defense Department told the AP in late February it could not find any emails about the bin Laden mission or his “Geronimo” code name that were sent or received in the year before the raid by William McRaven, the three-star admiral at the Joint Special Operations Command who organized and oversaw the mission. It also could not find any emails from other senior officers who would have been involved in the mission’s planning.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/ … ens-death/
As for the hijackers, it has seriously come into question if those hijackers ever existed at all. Five of them popped up alive.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1559151.stm
And there were no Arab names on the passengers lists.
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evid … ngers.html
Everything is just one big lie.Here are a few sources:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar … 4Nov1.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/bin … 29-04.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html
Here's is an interesting piece as well:
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Responsibility
And a different view from another Christian:
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/al-qa … cy-theory/
Just like everything else...There is always two sides to every story...
By the way...Al Quada is more than just Arabs...Lol, this is funny.
Now the reason why the FBI says there is no evidence linking Bin Laden to 9-11, which you conveniently ignored, is because the CIA has been busted for faking those videos.
During planning for the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the CIA's Iraq Operations Group kicked around a number of ideas for discrediting Saddam Hussein in the eyes of his people.
One was to create a video purporting to show the Iraqi dictator having sex with a teenage boy, according to two former CIA officials familiar with the project.
“It would look like it was taken by a hidden camera,” said one of the former officials. “Very grainy, like it was a secret videotaping of a sex session.”
The idea was to then “flood Iraq with the videos,” the former official said.
Another idea was to interrupt Iraqi television programming with a fake special news bulletin. An actor playing Hussein would announce that he was stepping down in favor of his (much-reviled) son Uday.
“I’m sure you will throw your support behind His Excellency Uday,” the fake Hussein would intone.
The spy agency’s Office of Technical Services collaborated on the ideas, which also included inserting fake “crawls” -- messages at the bottom of the screen -- into Iraqi newscasts.
The agency actually did make a video purporting to show Osama bin Laden and his cronies sitting around a campfire swigging bottles of liquor and savoring their conquests with boys, one of the former CIA officers recalled, chuckling at the memory. The actors were drawn from “some of us darker-skinned employees,” he said.
Eventually, “things ground to a halt,” the other former officer said, because no one could come to agreement on the projects.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk … _to_d.html
A leading expert on Osama Bin Laden has officially gone on the record saying that he believes the so called "9/11 Confession" tape, released shortly after the attacks, is an outright fake that has been used by US intelligence agencies to deflect attention from “conspiracy theories” about 9/11.
Professor Bruce Lawrence, head of Duke University’s Religious Studies program, joined Kevin Barrett last Friday on his radio show (gcnlive.com, 2/16/2007, first hour) in his first public interview since comments he made last year indicating that he believes Bin Laden may be dead and that many of the newer tapes are either fake or consist of old audio and video.
The "Confession" video, played ad infinitum in the wake of the attack on Afghanistan in December 2001, was magically found in a house in Jalalabad after anti-Taliban forces moved in. It featured a fat Osama laughing and joking about how he'd carried out 9/11. The video was also mistranslated in order to manipulate viewer opinion and featured "Bin Laden" praising two of the hijackers, only he got their names wrong.
This Osama also uses the wrong hand to write with and wears gold rings, a practice totally in opposition to the Muslim faith.
http://www.infowars.net/articles/februa … a_tape.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/epic-fail-t … tapes.html
First we have the FBI saying there is no evidence, he was never on the FBI's most wanted, they faked Osama's death and now I am expected to believe your poor links?
"By the way...Al Quada is more than just Arabs..."
All of the alleged 19 hijackers on the list were Arab. Look at the pictures.
"We live under a secret government of psychopaths. And as CS Lewis famously said, the devil’s best trick is to convince you he doesn’t exist.
The first step towards ending the pathocracy is recognizing its existence."
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/04/09 … -a-secret/
dang, I'm always amazed at the lengths people will go to try and prove something is true or false. Do you spend all of your time trying to find this stuff?
There are 3 billion Christians, Jews and Muslims. There are 3 billion Chinese. The stage is set for the Four Horsemen. LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
- erickcbposted 12 years ago
0CLAIRE EVANS: There is no point in trying to push your beliefs on others. I have been there at the exact spot in the road where you are at. I am going to say from my own experience, own observation, that you are correct in what you say about the occult side to politics. It simply takes one to take the first steps to consider it. The simple "what-if." In that honest search the truth becomes self evident. This is how it has always been throughout time. The truth is always the light which guides the seeker down a certain path. BUT, You are forgetting however, that the path is for YOU to travel ALONE. You can not, and should not, try to force your ideas upon those who have not made the choice themselves to venture into the unknown. The parable of Jesus on the cross, is that the messenger is ALWAYS ALWAYS crucified by the mob. I am not religious, I am just using a reference that you will understand fully based off of your own beliefs. You are right in that you wish to open others eyes to the danger surrounding us all, and that is true humanity, which I respect deeply. But also remember, Jesus said, I have come for my lost sheep. That means he is looking for those who are also looking for him. He did not come to save everyone and you would do well to learn from those lessons. He never tried to force the truth on anyone which goes to shows my point here on this forum. Use your truths, find your own way. Do not fight with the mob, they will ALWAYS crucify you because their numbers are far greater than you. Keep searching. You will come to full realization of what evil is really here and it is not of the name Satan.
Claire's argument is equivalent to stating that everyone who wears a red shirt is a communist because red symbolizes communism. Her entire argument is based on the false premises that (a) a symbol can only have one meaning and that (b) the meaning(s) of a symbol cannot change over time.
The simple fact of the matter is that the star symbol (right side up or upside down) is more often used as a decorative motif in this day and age than as an occult symbol.
Everything that Claire has written on Hubpages--forum posts and hubs alike--indicate that she views nearly EVERYTHING as an occult/New World Order/New Ager/Freemason conspiracy, not just a few politcal symbols.
I'm not convinced that Claire isn't a super troll or a sociology student doing an experiment. It's hard to believe that someone this paranoid actually exists.Claire's argument is equivalent to stating that everyone who wears a red shirt is a communist because red symbolizes communism. Her entire argument is based on the false premises that (a) a symbol can only have one meaning and that (b) the meaning(s) of a symbol cannot change over time.
The simple fact of the matter is that the star symbol (right side up or upside down) is more often used as a decorative motif in this day and age than as an occult symbol.
Everything that Claire has written on Hubpages--forum posts and hubs alike--indicate that she views nearly EVERYTHING as an occult/New World Order/New Ager/Freemason conspiracy, not just a few politcal symbols.
I'm not convinced that Claire isn't a super troll or a sociology student doing an experiment. It's hard to believe that someone this paranoid actually exists.
I actually look at what the symbol originally represented not what it becomes to mean later. For example, the star comes from Ishtar, a moon goddess. Moon god and goddesses are actually Satan. Artemis is another moon goddess. She is the devil as well.
Acts 19:35
"...Ephesus is the guardian of the temple of the great Artemis and of her image, which fell from heaven?"
Jesus said He saw Satan fall like lightening from heaven.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtkU6P0J … re=related
Anyway, it is universally known that the upside down star represents Satanism. This is the first thing one thinks of when viewing the symbol. Surely you should know that? This is so logical that it was even on the news.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB8DTd5Di3E
Having said all this, why would this upside down star be chosen to represent the Campaign 2012? Because it looks pretty? Do you think it looks pretty in the streets of Washington, too?
We can entertain the notion that it means something else since symbols evolve. America is represented with 50 upright stars. We know that anything represented upside, like the crucifix, is the antithesis of what is upright. Does the upside down star mean that the elections are anti-American? A betrayal of the Americans?
What do you think?!
And thanks for visiting my hubs!
Hi, you are NOW in another dimension
You think that things are REAL
But it exists ONLY in your imagination
However, you refuse to believe THIS
You still maintain that these things are REAL
Your MIND knows better but
You are not LISTENING at all........
Oh no, something is lurking OUT THERE
R-E-A-L-L-Y
Duh, NO!- Rad Manposted 12 years ago0
I'm so confused. I thought it was a star, you know like on the flag. How stupid of me, linch'm all.
This reminds one of conspiracy radio host Alex Jones and his show on Bohemian Grove. According to him, the Bohemian Grove is an elitist club where politicians, head of states, and other powerful people congregate to indulge in "nefarious rites." Oh come on, this alleged Bohemian Grove premise is quite preposterous indeed. This idea that heads of state worship "Satan" (really now), come on. There are just some premises that are well.....quite laughable to say the least.
Oh, preposterous? So you think there is nothing sick about sacrificing human effigies to Lillith, the Satanic owl, and having "conversations" with Satan played back on tape?
It's only laughable because you don't want to believe it or are so brain-washed that you can't think outside your programmed mind.There are some DSM manuals for you to read regarding your proposed premise. You are really serious about this!
I'm just reporting on what I've seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hszzdj0K … re=related
Read Cathy O'Brien, TranceFormation of America.
...you can google it. The whole book may even be on the internet. Bohemian Grove is mentioned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCDs9Vs2iYM
Claire, have you heard about the illuminate.If not google the name, it's a real eye opener.You are right on the money and it's much worse than you could ever imagine, but it's all been written in Revelations so at least we know how the story ends:)People are blind and it's sad. Good for you for trying:)
Thank you, Tammy! I have researched the Illuminati extensively and am horrified just how far along their plan is.
- jomineposted 12 years ago0
The word is full of satanists
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flags_with_stars
If that's the proof
Whats the solution? seriously is it do able?
Well, the reality is 2,000 years ago Jesus asked the question?
"Who do you say I am" and its still the same question ,irregardless of symbols.
p.s
I once visited a very old temple ,a grand old Cathedral (Anglican) I think, but was most interested in the pattern of swastika's decorating the base boards.
Couldn't find anyone to ask about that pattern,but clearly someone used it before Hitler did.
Anyone else shed any light on the subject?I learned of this in an Art class!
That symbol was a positive symbol, during the Goddess cultures. Much positive energy associated with it. Hitler and the Nazi's--who were very much into the occult and symbology-- reversed the direction of it, and made it a symbol of negativity.Obviously it represents the sun but sun worship is also serpent worship, which as that suggests, is just another form of devil worship.
That is incorrect. Saying 'obviously' is an assumptive response. The Sun was the original pagan symbol for what is now known as Christ Consciousness. Pagan religion predates Christianity and it is from Ancient Egyptian and pagan religions and sanskrit texts at large that Christianity takes much of it's teachings. There are many similarities in interpretations between sanskrit texts and biblical texts.
You are in large discussing the Illuminati which should not be confused with ancient Egyptian and sanskrit knowledge.
Sun worship has never been confused with devil worship as the Sun was synonymous with Christ Consciousness, it fundamentally equates to the state Jesus attained through his spiritual practices. Jesus the man became Jesus Christ - he obtained the state known as Christ Consciousness.
You may be interested to know that it is the aspiration of many serious meditators of different traditions to also achieve this high state of consciousness. I am aware in your hub that you regard meditation as a form of new age nonsense. You may not be aware that it is a Christian practice to meditate. Those who are serious Christians doing full time spiritual practices in monasteries around the world do in fact meditate. Many go through what is known as the dark night of the soul, a state spoken about by John of the Cross.
By the way the new age movement began in the 1800's and not in 1960. Madam Blavatsky was one of the tear aways who is 'credited' with much of the movement, or change in knowledge through different forms of practice. Up until then Western Esoteric knowledge was quite conformist.
There is much occult knowledge that filters through the Catholic Church. But Alchemy has many arms most of which is unfathomable unless it is experienced personally. As with most religious teachings, the knowledge is lost because it is not applied to a personal journey of spiritual growth.I read a book once, by a famous psychic...from the 1950's-60's. She used to work with Nancy Reagan, was friends with Jimmy Carter, and was said to have converted the publisher of Hustler magazine on an airplane ride, when they sat next to each other....cannot for the life of me remember her name.
Anyway, she had a vision in which she saw Jesus "marrying" Isis in a ceremony in Egypt.
And she was a Christian and proud of it.
which also remind me of the work: 'Pistis Sophia', in which it is claimed that a male god created earth, but without his consort...the female.
We need to integrate the 2 to be whole. That is the meaning of the age of aquarius,imo. Return of the Goddess.
Christ Consciousness: LoveCC : love. Absolutely. It is actually a state of being. It is an experience and one which is difficult to hold onto. 99.999999% of the population will never understand it because it is only attained by stillness, a silenced mind and years of practice. Knowledge of it is merely intellectual. You have to align to it to experience it.
Love as we humans experience it is a very very watered down version.
Well, not really. I researched it so it wasn't a knee jerk reaction. The sun represents the serpent. Sun worship is serpent worship:
The book The Two Babylons stated that the worship of the serpent was always universally associated with the sun. Quoting Rev. A. Hislop: "Along with the sun, as the great fire-god, and, in due time, identified with him, was the serpent worshipped. … In the mythology of the primitive world… the serpent is universally the symbol of the sun. "In Egypt, one of the commonest symbols of the sun, or sun-god, is a disc with a serpent around it (p. 227)."
Rev. A. Hislop goes on to show how the ancients associated the snake with the sun. "The original reason of that identification seems just to have been that, as the sun was the great enlightener of the physical world, so the serpent was held to have been the great enlightener of the spiritual, by giving mankind the "knowledge of good and evil." (p. 227)"
The word Baal means "master" or "owner". In ancient religions the name denoted sun, lord or god. Baal was common a name of small Syrian and Persian deities. Baal is still principally thought of as a Canaanite fertility deity. The Great Baal was of Canaan. He was the son of El, the high god of Canaan. The cult of Baal celebrated annually his death and resurrection as a part of the Canaanite fertility rituals. These ceremonies often included human sacrifice and temple prostitution.
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/b/baal.html
The sun is worshiped in Freemasonry that is a Luciferian organization; Lucifer and the sun being the same.
As one Luciferian book, Magic Symbols says, "Without doubt, the circle is the most important of all units in magic symbolism, and in almost every case where it is used, the circle is intended to denote spirit, or spiritual forces." [p. 16] Masonic author, J.S.M. Ward, states that the "circle represents God". [Freemasonry and the Ancient Gods; also stated by Masonic author, George Oliver, Symbol of Glory Shewing the Object and End of Freemasonry , 1855, p. 162] Within all areas of the occult, and in Masonry, you see symbols surrounded by circles, and you see serpents devouring their tail, making a circle; in fact, you see circles everywhere.
Freemasons view the circle as the Sun, and utilize it in their worship of the Sun, and the Sun God, Osiris [The Masonic Quiz Book , p. 163].
Shiva is the devil and this is what New Ager Alice Bailey wrote:
Alice Bailey, with her Demon Master -- Master D.K. -- writing through her, stated that "Shamballa is the mythological place where the 'Lord of the World', Sanat Kumara, or Shiva , is supposed to live." [Discipleship in the New Age Lucis/Lucifer Publishing, 1955, 135-36].
Christianity has nothing to do with paganism - until 300 years later, thanks to the Catholic church.
The Illuminati, made mostly of Freemasons, is based on the ancient mysteries, i.e, Egyptian and Babylonian mysteries.
Albert Pike in Morals & Dogma, that "Masonry is identical to the ancient Mysteries "
No. Christ consciousness is man's quest to become Christ, which is blasphemy. New Agers tend to purge Christians of this planet. Violently I might add.
Christians can be deceived, too, you know. Meditation is New Age. I can't believe the nonsense Satan feeds people.
New Age is as old as the hills. It just denotes the coming of the age of Aquarius.I'm sure the Hindu's would laugh you to Hades for what you stated in this last post. What you regard as blaspheme proves your lack of broadmindedness and willingness to learn and understand. Claire, this is my last post in this topic. You are researching but reading a lot of nonsense. One day you may realize this, especially when you come to see context. I also wish you well with your illness.
Take careBut would exactly do you dispute and why? Let's put it this way. Do you believe you can become a Christ? Be on par with Jesus? Do you believe you can, too, become God?
Why is it that when I post some really good information we can discuss, people go, "Oh, this is my last post, ha, ha."
It's like they are getting uncomfortable or something.
You don't think for one moment that whatever you've learnt is just pure deception? Why can't you be the one to attempt to explain the context? Is it not disgusting that human sacrifices are associated with sun worship?
Eaglekiwi, the swastika also had positive symbolism, same with the pentagram. This link may shed some light on the topic. http://www.religionfacts.com/hinduism/s … astika.htm
The symbol was around a loooong time before Hitler was born. The unfortunate use of it has tainted it's meaning. Hitler in his own psychotic mind felt what he was doing was purifying the world - idiot! As such his use of the symbol, in his twisted mind, was in a positive light. Of course history shows it was not.
This is in essence what happens with the Ahrimanic forces. Memes are essentially groups of people influenced by a set of forces. Forces are in the form of ideals, policy, rules, regulations and known or familiar actions. They are in most cases subliminal to those embroiled in the meme, ie people within a meme have no idea they are in one. As with most Germans at the time, they were aligning to Hitler because of his public relations abilities (as we see it, it is fear mongering). They saw it as aligning to someone's ideals and made them there own. They would have seen the swastika as a good symbol. And of course because of the atrocities now the swastika is associated with evil even though it's meaning is for good.
The term meme is not negative. It is when people are within one and don't see the persuasiveness and lack of individual thought. They don't see how their upbringing determined their knowledge and subsequent viewpoint.
So the term evil has naught to do with the symbol, it is to do with the actions of humans.
Howdy Jewels ... It has been a practice that when we don;t agree with something but we can not dispute it; it is to be ignored.
There has been a lot of ignoring going on for quite some time.
I Hear YA.Hi Jerami, hope your 2012 is being good to you.
you are absolutely wrong.They do not worship Satan they ARE Satan.
There you go............. the actions of humans!
No, they aren't Satan. Satan is a separate entity to them. They aren't omniscient, etc.
If after all the zombie-like addiction to 'devil' and 'rebellion' and 'chaos' being so prevelant and apparent and the numerous people from the "demonic" life-style changing and RUNNING for Jesus Christ you STILL think that EVERY ONE OF THEM doesn't know what they are talking about then maybe you should write a note and sign it, and see how much you can get... And maybe it will save your soul in the end because I'll bet.. As I have before to others, you come crying and praying and telling the whole world - JUST LIKE THEY HAVE AND ARE - that it is all real.
But hey.. If you're that brave and think whatever is beyond unknown isn't important enough to consider or that it can't hurt you..
Well go on with your bad self then.. Walk it tall, talk strong, and bad mouth every person who tells you evil exists.. until you see it yourself [as I have]...
Or until you die [as we all soon will]..."The word Baal means "master" or "owner". In ancient religions the name denoted sun, lord or god. Baal was common a name of small Syrian and Persian deities. Baal is still principally thought of as a Canaanite fertility deity. The Great Baal was of Canaan. He was the son of El, the high god of Canaan. The cult of Baal celebrated annually his death and resurrection as a part of the Canaanite fertility rituals. These ceremonies often included human sacrifice and temple prostitution."
I wonder if you see the similaritites here? Celebrating death and resurrection....Human sacrifice.....prostitution.......all these are part of Jesus story too.
And since you mentioned El, what do you think of Israel....Isis/Ra/El?Baal is a vegetation god and so the "death" and resurrection" represents the crop cycles. It's not meant to be taken literally.
There's a difference between offering up a human being for a sacrifice to the gods and laying down your life for mankind like Jesus did.
It's a bit far-fetched to think that Jesus forgiving the prostitute has got anything to do with temple prostitution.
I've heard of this claim that Israel is "Isis-ra-el". That is just plain false. Israel is the Greek word for the Hebrew word of Yisrael. It means, "He has striven with God", or "He has been saved by God" or "He who has struggled with God".
It's not exactly certain what it means but those alternatives are the most likely,.You seem to spend a hell of a lot of time reading in to things that people claim whout any evidence.
I personally tend to ignore people who make claims that they cannot provide any evidence for. Maybe you shouldnt take so much notice of them. You seem to be rather caught up in their nonsense.Well, what exactly is the nonsense? It's a fact that Baal is a vegetation god, etc. Anyway, I like debating so nonsense is needed to be refuted.
It is a fact that someone CLAIMS that Baal is a vegetation god. Any evidence for such a god is non existant.
Maybe you should entertain the idea that you just haven't come across the evidence and not that there isn't any.
Ok I shall embrace your suggestion as I made a positive claim that I could not back up and I shouldn't have.
I would like to see this evidence you have of this gods existence.Ok I shall embrace your suggestion as I made a positive claim that I could not back up and I shouldn't have.
I would like to see this evidence you have of this gods existence.
Well, that is evidence that cannot be given over the Internet. I think you should know that. What can be proven is that the world worships this creature. Why? I could never waste my time worshiping an imaginary god. What is in it for these world powers that they have to obey his every word? These aren't people who are just in a psych ward. These are our world leaders and I would want to know what motivates their beliefs. What's Lillith to them and why would the American Elite gather together annually to pay homage to this creature? I can't fathom their mind sets performing mock sacrifices to a giant stone owl.
I think you should realize something is not right. Something is so wrong that it is impossible to dismiss the idea of Satan completely.
Forgive me if I have posted this already to you. I don't know what I've posted to whom anymore. I'd like your commentary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hszzdj0K … re=related
The "conversation" the priest is having on the recorded tape is with Satan, him jeering them. I've been told I'm crazy but this is an entirely new level of craziness!
In case you are wondering why "The Cremation of Care" means, it means the killing of the conscience so that people can commit evil without thought.
I thought of something when you asked me for evidence. A priest performing an exorcism on this girl asked the very same question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YatVCMhwsnA
Start at about 30 seconds. I don't think you want to see nuns watering the garden. Lol
The pentagram is not a satanic symbol. Satanism requires a type of belief in Christianity (at least in so far as a belief in Satan himself). Pentagrams are more traditionally used by pagans who don't have any belief in Satan at all, let alone worship for him. It was attributed to Satanists in an attempt at mass conversion when people were looking for excuses to kill non-Christians, but it should not be attributed to evil or used in this conspiracy theory kind of way.
What you don't realize is that Satan goes by many names. He isn't just Satan. He is Ra, Osiris, Baal, Artemis, etc. Pagans don't realize this. I think there should be some red flags when human sacrifice is required in pagan religions.
Now, what do you think the upside pentagram means in that Campaign 2012 poster?The concept of hell or Satan or what ever you want to call him, Is the worst concept Mankind has ever invented in Human history. If no Christian wants to sell me their land for very cheap, in order they do not appear too rich when they meet their maker on Judgement Day 2012.
If they don't sell me their land for a cheap price, then I think they lack a great deal of faith that money or Satan is the root of all evil or lack the faith Or lack the faith that Extreme happiness for eternity, exist..Sometimes I wonder if I should envy those who have never felt the effects of evil. Would I be happier if I was ignorant? I don't think I would because fear of the future and putting my faith in the world would cause me to spiral into the pit of depression. The faith in Jesus Christ casts out all fear.
I'm somewhat amused how people just gloss over the question where evil comes from. What purpose does it serve in the process of evolution?Survival of the fittest is what the entire process of evolution is based upon.
Win a football game and praise God, as if that would be his biggest concern. Not the hungry or prayed upon, but a football game and a football players greed.
Do something bad and the devil made me do it. What a copout. You did it, don't pass the buck.
No evil exists in the world. Just random events and misguided people. Even a psychopath, as evil as they seem are nothing more that people with severe brain problems that make them a menace to society.Do you leave in a glass house in the middle of nowhere? How can you say evil doesn't exist?? I suppose sacrificing children, raping them and drinking their blood is just the survival of the fittest. I suppose dropping bombs on innocent people's houses isn't evil. Those bombers are just misguided. Hitler was misguided, too. I wonder if you say there was no evil if you were facing the gas chambers.
Unfortunately, your belief of no evil is not an unique concept. Some Christians will ask you, "What's evil?"It's not like I don't think there is bad in the world, but evil implies the devil. There simply is no devil. G.W. Bush can be seen as evil from your description, but he was going after the evil doers. He choice of words were carefully picked to rally the troops. If a solder kills because he is told to, he is misguided. Isn't one of the 10 big ones "Thou shall not kill"? It doesn't say unless your ordered to. Why does the middle east hate the USA? We are in there back yard, they aren't in ours, but we didn't like it when they came (911). The USA drops booms too. No Devil, just misguided people.
Bad is evil. And you sound pretty sure there is no devil. That's misguided. In fact, you have absolutely no idea what's going on. He was going after the evil doers? What are you talking about? Who are the evil doers? If a soldier kills because he is told to either has complete disregard for human life, has psychological problems or is just plain evil. There are many of the latter. And you blame Al Qaeda for 9-11, too, I suppose?
I can't expect you to even begin to understand devil when you don't even understand this world.Jesus dose not encourage killing, Christians do, as no other group is better at killing in the name of God than Christians in all of human history. I love christian enough to tell them that,
Maybe many christian will switch their ways to greater reasoning for doing anything. For no absolute reason for doing something, is the ultimate evil in the world and killing is the ultimate sin. Satan did not make you do anyTHING you didn't want to do, please do blame Satan,
Why ? Save Satan, for we do not know what we do, For Satan, only exist in the mind, the source of all problemsI have never said that people should be absolved from sin by blaming Satan. I'm just telling you the source of evil.
Why is my not believing there is a devil and or God more misguided that you thinking they exist? How arrogant. How do you know I have no idea what's going on?
(Who are the evil doers?) I have no idea, but GW Bush went after them and told Canada "If your not with us your against us". Turns out Iraq had nothing to do with 911. Who was evil in this situation? Bad people are out there in plan sight, but don't blame the devil, cause there is none. Don't pass the buck, blame the people. Hitler was a bad person, but what is said about the nation that followed him? What is said about a nation that followed Bush?
No devil or god, just gullible people.
I understand the world and I don't appreciate the insult or your arrogance.I know you have no idea what's going because of your response. To say there is just bad and misguided people out there is the depth of ignorance. First of you, you say there is no evil and then mention the "evil-doers".
I was waiting for you to say Al Qaeda is the evil-doer because I assume you think they are responsible for 9-11? Saying there is Satan in the world does not absolve people from committing evil. You can't say, "The devil made me do it". We have to be held accountable for actions. That's like blaming the guy who sold you a gun that someone used to kill someone else.
There is more to than just being gullible. Tell me, should your family have been gassed in Auschwitz would you call Hitler bad? Would you call those who gassed them gullible?
It is the height of arrogance to say there is no god and devil.Claire Evans
it is the height of arrogance to say there is no god and devil.
Funny, Atheist are tops, for World Religion knowledge. I would call that an ugly marriage and one that you will never get rid of, while on earth. Unless you just think for your self and for other people without the bias of other groups or persons.Really...have you taken a survey? I have found atheists to be rather biased when it comes to Christians.
Check out an atheist forum, you will find it's 2/3 about Religion'
My bias would never reach those extremes of both ends of the scale.If I had to fight with my wife that much, I would get rid of her in a heart beat
I don't think your understanding me. My evil-doers comment was meant to show how a nation of good people follow someone in attacking another nation for no reason at all. The people of the United States were misguided in their attack on Iraq because of GW Bush's inspiring words that he was going after (evil-doers). Just as Germans were misguided by Hitler. God or Satin were no where is sight. 6 million Jews DEAD and we think God answers prayers to win a football game or get a new floor.
You obviously seem to know who was responsible for 9-11, so why not share.
I've been trying to tell you we can't say (the devil made me do it). You're not listening.
Yes, the guys who ran the gas chambers were gullible and mis-informed. Germans thought they would win the war. What happens when the US government drops 2 atomic bombs on Japan. Are the guys that released the bombs any different then the guys who flipped the switch at the gas chambers?
No sign of the Devil. No sign of God.
Why is it arrogance to say there is no God or devil? On the contrary, it's arrogant to think we were made in the image of God, but God has no form and no one has ever seen him. It arrogant to think we are any better or different than any other animal. And it is certainly arrogant to think one can communicate with such a God.
I'm not sure why you would think it's arrogant to think there is no God or Devil, it's actually very humbling to think we are no different than any other animal.I would not claim myself or even join an over Eco group claiming all right to spirituality or godlike thinking. Or pick the evil doers or choose who goes to heaven. I just let the flight clubs fight among themselves and enjoy the show and do my love thing gaining more kindness and understanding
I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you implying that I shouldn't claim all the rights to spirituality or godlike thinking? Did I pick how goes to heaven? You lost me.
Each of the many Religions think they are the only way to God, Who goes to heaven or hell is way beyond you or me
.
Stop just referring to those people who were misguided. They were psychologically manipulated into believing war was the best thing because of the trauma of 9-11. But what about those who committed the acts?
Well, where to start?
And you're just assuming that I claim the "devil made me do it" is a valid excuse for evil.
I can't believe you just said that. I'll have you know the Nazis were occultists - Satanists. Himmler was a black magician. No, they are no different than those who dropped the bomb. They're all evil.
No sign of the Devil. No sign of God.
I don't think I've come across many people like you who has such a lack of reasoning. Honestly, the image of God was not meant to be taken literally. It means we have taken on His nature like compassion, love, etc. No, of course we aren't any better than animals. I actually saw an elephant perform brain surgery yesterday. It was quite fascinating.
You don't just think there is no God or devil. You say it as fact.
You know that the Global Elite see as nothing more than animals.
Henry Kissinger: soldiers are “dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns of foreign policy”Hitler was Christian. FACT. Hitler was a formal member of the Catholic Church until his death and he order his associates to remain members as well. Hitler had been indoctrinated by the Catholic Church be believe the Jew was the killer of God. I've meet many people who grew up in German or Italy durning WW2 who have been indoctrinated to hate Jews for killing Jesus. Hitler felt he could exterminate the Jews without conscience if done without cruelty as he was acting as the avenging hand of God.
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."- Adolf Hitler - Mein Kampf
"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."- Adolf Hitler - Mein Kampf
Christianity was fused into Hitlers thinking.
The irony of a God allowing millions exterminated and Christians praying for their team to win a football game.Sigh. Don't you know that there are many politicians who claim to be a Christian, and other things, are only doing so to win favour in the eyes of the public and not being they are? Bush Jnr was one of those but he is actually a Satanist belonging to the Skull and Bones society.
The Catholic Church is Satanic so really it is no wonder Hitler had an affinity with it. Ask yourself this question: why didn't Hitler make the Nazi symbol a crucifix and not a black magic rune symbol?
Let me give you quotes from the following website:
http://www.newsmonster.co.uk/paranormal … rmany.html
This room was the central temple of the Satanic cult that created and directed Germany’s Nazi party. This so called Vril Society counted many of Hitler’s henchmen as members, including Himmler, Bormann, and Hess. Central to the whole cult was Hitler, who they believed to be a psychic medium in contact with powerful forces that would create an all-conquering Aryan nation. Some saw him as the Dark Messiah.
Historians have tended to downplay the occult foundations of Nazism for fear of trivialising its heinous war crimes, but a recent documentary on the Discovery Channel laid bare the untold story of the secretive religion at the heart of fascist Germany. And bizarrely, it is thought to have been based on a 19th Century science fiction novel that predicted flying saucers, an alien race at the centre of the earth, and a mysterious force known as Vril.
“Occult myths played a central role in Nazism,” says Professor Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke, head of the Centre for the Study of Esotericism at Exeter University. “When we look at these ideas today, we think of them as crazy, but they were central to the early Nazi Party and through them played a critical role in 20th century history.”
“The Vril society was dedicated to evil,” says historian Michael Fitzgerald. “Through their control of the Nazi party they committed the greatest acts of evil in the 20th Century.
The Vril Society was noted for it’s use of orgies to summon up occult energies – and to father a ‘master race’ of children to repopulate a devastated Germany. It is said that women in such orgies would become possessed by spirits and begin speaking in tongues. And their prophesies were treated with deadly seriousness.
“But the darkest side of the Vril was their propensity for sacrificing young children,” says Michael Fitzgerald, author of Stormtroopers of Satan. “They would stab them in the chest and cut their throats.
“At the height of their power in 1920s Munich, hundreds of children disappeared. Many are presumed to have been killed by the cult to summon up Vril energy. This may seem like an outlandish claim but when you consider what these people went on to do in the Third Reich, it seems almost tame.”
Central to the Vril Society was the search for a German Messiah who would lead the Aryan’s to world domination and exterminate all other races – especially the Jews. And his rise was predicted by a spirit calling itself the “Beast of the Book of Revelation.”
In a séance attended by the cult followers Alfred Rosenberg and Dietrich Eckart, the Beast is said to have proclaimed that a man named “Hitler” would seize the “Spear of Destiny” and lead the Aryans to power.
And within a few weeks, a fiery young man of shabby appearance began attending Thule Society meetings. His name was Adolf Hitler.
The Society was quick to spot Hitler’s potential and to exploit his astonishing personal magnetism. He could transform crowds into hysterical worshippers and mesmerise even the strongest of men. Power seemed to course through him, with waves of emotion whipping up those around him into a frenzy. At times, he seemed possessed.
Hitler was fascinated by the occult. He was a devotee of astrology, numerology, psychic mediumship, hypnosis and water divining. In short, the young Adolf would try anything that might foretell the future or give him control over others.
It was in the Thule Society that Hitler met those who would help him take over Germany and wage the Second World War. Rudolf Hess, Heinrich Himmler, Martin Bormann, Dietrich Eckart, Alfred Rosenberg, and Hermann Goering were all said to be members. It was these, along with Hitler, who used the Thule Society – and it’s inner sect the Vril Society – to launch and promote the Nazi Party."
Hardly Christian.You reside in a strange place. Everything I read says Hitler was a Christian. Now you say the Catholic Church is a Satanic Cult. It doest matter anyway because there is no God and there is no Satin. You need some help.
I think that Claire -- like many people -- doesn't believe that something can be true unless it has been repudiated. Once it has been repudiated, it becomes worthy of consideration. I'm not sure what inspires this conspiratorial view of reality, but it takes many otherwise intelligent people into very strange places.
What are you not understanding? I can call myself a Wiccan or a Jew or whatever but if I don't abide by the beliefs I'm not Wiccan or Jewish. I'm an imposter. Hitler was justifying his evil under the veil of Christianity.
You keep telling yourself there is no God or Satan. We'll all found out for sure one day, anyway.What are you not understanding? Hitler was a christian, you got all that stupid info from a fraudulent website. Hitler used his Christian teaching to attack Jews. He wasn't alone. I know many Christians who feel this way. Mel Gibson comes to mind.
But none of this matter because there is no God and there is no Devil. So go ahead and pray.
If you have proof of a God then please show it. The bible doesn't count and it's full of flaws.
All you are doing is spreading hatred with your Christianity.Oh, how's it a fraudulent site? And you didn't answer the question why Hitler didn't use the crucifix as the Nazi symbol instead of a rune symbol.
If you don't believe God and Satan don't exist, then that is your affair. I'm not going to stop you. I don't know how I am spreading hatred with my Christianity. You haven't been making much sense, anyway."Lanz commenced publication of the journal Ostara (named after the pagan Germanic goddess of spring) to promote his vision of racial purity. On December 25, 1907 he founded the Order of the New Templars (Ordo Novi Templi, or ONT), a mystical association with its headquarters at Burg Werfenstein, a castle in Upper Austria overlooking the river Danube. Its declared aim was to harmonise science, art and religion on a basis of racial consciousness. Rituals were designed to beautify life in accordance with Aryan aesthetics, and to express the Order's theological system which Lanz called Ario-Christianity. The Order was the first to use the swastika in an "Aryan" meaning, displaying on its flag the device of a red swastika facing right, on a yellow-orange field and surrounded by four blue fleurs-de-lys above, below, to the right and to the left."
"As National Socialists, we see our program in our flag. In red, we see the social idea of the movement; in white, the nationalistic idea; in the swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work." - Hitler
So to answer your question, Hitler was not the first to use the swastika to symbolize the aryan race. I find the term Ario-Christianity interesting and scary. Don't You?
You believe in Satan because the Holy Spirit -- an entity that we have no reason to believe exists -- convinces you that he does. Understand that this is a bit like believing in the Easter Bunny because Santa Claus tells you that he exists. While it is possible that the Easter Bunny exists -- I am not being sarcastic -- it is reasonable to suspend judgement until we are presented compelling evidence.
As long as the evidence that you present for any of your claims is concocted by charlatans, hoaxers, and quacks, you have very little credibility. I gave you the opportunity to present credible evidence, but you stopped responding when I demonstrated that your evidence was suspect.
Of course, this is probably because you rely on the testimony of the Holy Spirit more than you rely on objective evidence. As you say, we all might find out "for sure one day," but I doubt that many of us will be holding our breath.What's it to you what I claim to be the truth?
I can't recall this. You can't provide "credible evidence" for the Holy Spirit. It has not empirically proven by science. It is only known to the individual who knows how to interpret it.
Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children."Really? You started a forum with the subject "Proof that Satan is worshiped by world leaders." Any investigation of this claim automatically entails an investigation of whether or not Satan exists.
I was bemoaning the quality of your evidence, which typically consists of quotations from charlatans, hoaxers, and quacks. Obviously, you can't provide evidence of the Holy Spirit, nor did I ask for any.
Jesus had just performed miracles that failed to produce repentance in the wise and learned. He thanked God for the understanding of the "little children."
You are (allegedly) presenting proof of Satan's worship by world leaders. I promise, none of your proofs thus far qualify as miraculous.Claire has problems with the concepts of correlation and causation - as do many. Her real problem comes from worldview, though. Most rational people can be convinced that giant conspiracy theories are ridiculous if shown the technique of working backward from act to inception and how impossible it would be to orchestrate such a scheme.
However, when you start with the basic premise that the adversary is an invisible, superpowerful evil superbeing then the regulator of ridiculousness is removed and anything becomes possible.If I worship the Easter bunny, it doesn't automatically mean it exists. However, human sacrifices are known to be associated with Satanism. So the question is, why would world leaders associate themselves with something that represents evil?
Okay.
Jesus could never perform miracles on those who had no faith. This is the point I'm trying to make. Those who continuously want "empirical evidence" are blocking out God's voice to have a leap of faith. The wise, or educated, are the ones looking for facts. However, it is those who think less critically and have faith that experience the Holy Spirit. It seemed quite logical for Satan to tell Jesus that He, as one person, could bot take on the sin of the world. Jesus overcome the temptation to think logically and instead trusted that God could do all things.
You'll find out one day. You could never cry ignorance.What a nation one would have if we blocked out knowledge for a strong connection with God? This is exactly what was meant by the story of Adam, Eve and the Apple. The Apple represents knowledge, once you've tasted knowledge you can't believe in magical spirits. You stay ignorant and I'll obtain knowledge.
But a whole nation of ignorant people wouldn't work in todays world.Lol. Knowledge in the Adam and Eve story, derived from the Sumerian texts, is occult knowledge. Occultists believe they can achieve Christ Consciousness and become a god. That is why the serpent said that God did not want them to have this knowledge because he didn't want them to become like him.
Agreed, though why you think this has any relevance bewilders me.
I've watched Alex Jones' "Dark Secrets: Inside the Bohemian Grove" and its sequel, "The Order of Death." Neither corroborate anything except for a bunch of rich men putting on a theatrical production for other rich men.
Jon Ronson, who was the actual instigator of the Bohemian Grove penetration -- Jones invited himself along -- paints an entirely different picture of the event that Jones does.
Ronson wrote of the event, "It was clear that the Texans' interpretation of the ceremony differed from my own. My lasting impression was of an all-pervading sense of immaturity: the Elvis impersonators, the pseudo-pagan spooky rituals, the heavy drinking. These people might have reached the apex of their professions, but emotionally they seemed trapped in their college years."
It might be true that Jesus can't perform miracles _on_ those without faith, but it is indisputably false that he can't perform miracles _for_ those without faith.
"Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe[a] that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:30-31).In other words, it is possible for the word to worship Satan even if he doesn't exist. That isn't so but it could be so hypothetically speaking.
Jon Ronson, who was the actual instigator of the Bohemian Grove penetration -- Jones invited himself along -- paints an entirely different picture of the event that Jones does.
Ronson wrote of the event, "It was clear that the Texans' interpretation of the ceremony differed from my own. My lasting impression was of an all-pervading sense of immaturity: the Elvis impersonators, the pseudo-pagan spooky rituals, the heavy drinking. These people might have reached the apex of their professions, but emotionally they seemed trapped in their college years."
Good for him. You just have to ask yourself what people sacrifice a human effigy and then play a recording of a priest and "Satan" conversing. There's something seriously wrong with people who have a program with a picture of a burnt out baby corpse.
It disturbs me that you defend these world leaders. It's dangerous to underestimate the power of evil and feeds it.
"Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe[a] that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:30-31).
But the above verse doesn't indicate Jesus performing a miracle for the unbelievers. The miracles I had more in mind was healing.You saw a burnt-out baby corpse? Really? I didn't, and I watched the same video that you did. Wait... is it possible that you haven't actually watched the entire video? Have you only watched the YouTube clips?
Cremation of Care is a theatrical production. All manner of things -- objectionable to someone, somewhere -- are depicted in theatrical productions. Think of some of the horrific scenes that have been staged in opera. Are all opera enthusiasts secret Satanists?
The type of cheap insinuation that you are employing can be used to convict virtually anyone of horrible crimes.
For example, you just have to ask yourself, what kind of person could let children starve? There's something seriously wrong with people who could let homeless infants slowly and painfully starve to death when thy can do something to prevent it.
This kind of person is most of us in the Western world.I have watched the entire video and more. I cannot convince of things you don't want to believe. Sorry. You are wasting your time with me. And, yes, there is wrong with people who let babies starve to death IF they come across a starving baby and turn away or commit the act themselves. In reality, people can only help others in their own capacity. We cannot solve the world's problems, but to insinuate the average person is on the same level as our world leaders is just offensive. Those very world leaders orchestrated 9-11, drop uranium bombs and cause baby deformities, and use Al Qaeda to overthrow regimes not palatable to them.
You don't have to be "on the same level as our world leaders" to save a starving baby. However, that wasn't the point. Sorry, I'm not going to reiterate. If you really want to know what the point was, you can reread.
We all wear filters on our minds. You wear yours, I wear mine. None of these filters are an exact match, which means that some of the stuff that your filter rejects, mine accepts, and vice versa. Consequently, I cannot convince you of things that you don't want to believe.
Consciousness is a product of the brain. It has been proven to reside in a particular part of the brain by split brained patients. Since consciousness can be turned off by both science and death, you will have no consciousness after death. You simply won't know what your missing, just like you didn't know what you were missing before you were born. Even if you feel you have a soul, your soul has no consciousness. If it did you would have memory of surgery.
I hate to break it to you but you won't have consciousness after death. Your energy will move forward with consciousness.Oh, so strange that people can have consciousness during Near Death Experiences.
Near Death Experiences explained by scientists:
Discover Magazine, June 12, 2007: Scientists now consider that consciousness is separate from the brain: "The brain-identity theory says that consciousness ends with brain death. But if it can be shown that people can acquire information when they are unconscious and out of their body, it would be indisputable evidence that consciousness is separate from the brain."
This is what Italian astrophysicist Paola Zizzi terms the “Big Wow,” shorthand for her description of the connection between “the very early quantum computing universe and our mind.”
06.12.2007
At the University of Virginia Health System’s Division of Perceptual Studies, or DOPS, scientists are studying an array of anomalous phenomena, including near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, and memories of past lives. Bruce Greyson, a psychiatrist at UVHS and director of DOPS, is a pioneer in the study of near-death experiences
Greyson reports that about 10 percent of the people who go into cardiac arrest have an NDE and report knowing details of activities that occurred while they were unconscious. Frequently, individuals tell of watching from above the operating table as doctors and nurses work on their bodies. From a scientific standpoint, the most significant aspect of many NDEs is that the individual’s brain should not have been functioning at the time of the event. “We have a lot of well-documented cases where we have EEG and other evidence that the brain is not functioning, and yet people will say, ‘I was thinking clearer than I ever have before,’” Greyson says.
Dutch cardiologist and near-death researcher Pim van Lommel notes that, at the moment of an NDE, “these people are not only conscious, their consciousness is even more expansive than ever. They can think extremely clearly, have memories going back to their earliest childhood, and experience an intense connection with everything and everyone around them. And yet their brain shows no activity at all.”
If consciousness is the product of brain activity, near-death experiences should not happen. At the very least, the contrary evidence suggests that the standard understanding of consciousness is incomplete. Peter Fenwick, a senior lecturer at the Institute of Psychiatry at Kings College London, wrote in a paper, “The brain-identity theory says that consciousness ends with brain death. But if it can be shown that people can acquire information when they are unconscious and out of their body, it would be indisputable evidence that consciousness is separate from the brain.”
http://www.coolunknown.com/index.php?op … :your-mind
And, yes, there are people who have had memory of their surgery, unfortunately, and felt the pain but they couldn't do anything about it.
About consciousness causing brain waves:
"Although epiphenomenalism may be nearly assumed by many doctors and patients alike since it seems to match data related to impaired neurological function, some of the research in neuroplasticity likely refutes the entire concept of epiphenomenalism. Early research demonstrated that when people learn new skills, such as typing or piano, that areas of the motor cortex of the brain actually increase in size to match. Later research demonstrated new brain connections, after some forms of brain injury, sometimes form to areas of the brain which would otherwise have processed information from different areas of function. This process actually restores the lost functioning, even with different areas of the brain processing the information.
Although these studies were fascinating as they showed the neuronal connections and biological functioning of the brain changed as a result of essentially newly learned tasks, some researchers minimized the results with arguments that this was largely a unique ability for repair following injury. One of the more recent studies was a true paradigm changer. In this research, Tibetan Buddhist monks participated in functional brain imaging studies while practicing a compassion based meditation technique. The finding was astounding: monks showed a novel Gamma brainwave pattern in the frontal lobe, which correlated with the subjective sense of blissfulness. This brainwave pattern had never been seen in any non-pathological state before, and its presence and strength was only related to the number of hours of meditative practice. No other demographic factors correlated with the finding, which suggested a clear circumstance in which willed meditative practice altered brain function over extended practice.
Since epiphenomenalism requires that mental process is only an accidental byproduct of neuronal firing, there is no conceivable way that mental process could actually effect the biological structure. This latest research proves just the opposite: that mental process changes the biology of the brain. Clearly then, any form of biological monism cannot account for this research finding. A different model is needed which accounts for the research data."
http://www.consciousnessblog.net/page/2/
If you saying there is no consciousness after death cannot be substantiated.Yet the article from the June 12, 2007 issue of Discover Magazine you quote as evidence claims nothing of the sort.
That's a big IF. First, because it hasn't been shown that anyone has ever acquired information while unconscious. Second, because it hasn't been shown that anyone has ever been "out of their body."
Even if the former could be shown, it would still be logically impossible to deduce your claim. The article itself make this clear: "At the very least, the contrary evidence suggests that the standard understanding of consciousness is incomplete."
So, the author of the article believes that "contrary evidence" suggests that our current understanding of consciousness is inadequate, and that this same "contrary evidence" also suggests something more.
However, when we examine the "contrary evidence," we find only this statement: “We have a lot of well-documented cases where we have EEG and other evidence that the brain is not functioning, and yet people will SAY, ‘I was thinking clearer than I ever have before.’”
We should accept personal anecdote as scientific evidence?
The same article provides this non-corroborating evidence:
In other words, Greyson couldn't find empirical evidence to support his belief in NDEs, so he blames it on memory-suppressing medication.
Inconveniently for Greyson, all anesthetics suppress memory and consciousness. It's the chief reason that they are used in surgery. This simple fact invalidates Greyson's contrived explanation.
Note that the primary proof of an NDE is an out-of-body experiences, or OBE.
As for what causes OBEs, the article addresses that question:
If you saying there is consciousness after death, this cannot be substantiated.The point I was trying to make is that Radman should not just assume there is no consciousness after death when there are so many question marks surrounding the issues. In fact, there are some doctors who really are convinced that consciousness exists after brain death. Quotes from page:
"The first scientific study of near-death experiences has found new evidence to suggest consciousness or "the soul" can continue to exist after the brain has ceased to function. The findings by two eminent doctors, based on a year-long study of heart-attack survivors, could provoke fresh controversy over one of the world's most enduring enigmas: Is there life after death? Reports of near-death experiences -- in which people close to death report vivid encounters with bright lights and heavenly beings -- date back centuries, but the phenomena have been treated with skepticism by most academics."
I'm more intrigued by NDEs in the case of brain death instead of clinical death.
[Petre Sunday Telegraph]
"The study's authors, Dr. Peter Fenwick, a consultant neuropsychiatrist at the Institute of Psychiatry in London, and Dr. Sam Parnia, a clinical research fellow and registrar at Southampton hospital, stress more research is needed. "These people were having these experiences when we wouldn't expect them to happen, when the brain shouldn't be able to sustain lucid processes or allow them to form memories that would last,'' Dr. Parnia said. "So it might hold an answer to the question of whether mind or consciousness is actually produced by the brain or whether the brain is a kind of intermediary for the mind, which exists independently."
http://www.doxa.ws/meta_crock/NDE.html
So while this would not be hailed as empirically proven, it certainly means someone can not say for sure consciousness after death doesn't exist.
One of the most fascinating parts of this issue is blind people having NDEs.
Dr. Kenneth Ring and Sharon Cooper completed a two-year study into the NDEs of the blind. They published their findings in a book entitled "Mindsight" in which they documented the solid evidence of 31 cases in which blind people report visually accurate information obtained during an NDE. Perhaps the best example in his study is that of a forty-five year old blind woman by the name of Vicki Umipeg. Vicki was born blind, her optic nerve having been completely destroyed at birth because of an excess of oxygen she received in the incubator. Yet, she appears to have been able to see during her NDE. Her story is a particularly clear instance of how NDEs of the congenitally blind can unfold in precisely the same way as do those of sighted persons.
http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html#a3
Interesting page.That seems reasonable.
However, when I read the article at the link you provided, I discover this sentence:
"This Study doesn't say Brain death it says "clincial death."
The Vicki Umipeg story is interesting, but again provides no corroborating evidence for Umipeg's claim.Yes, that's not the brain death I was referring to.
"Dr. Michael Sabom is a cardiologist whose latest book, Light and Death, includes a detailed medical and scientific analysis of an amazing near-death experience of a woman named Pam Reynolds. She underwent a rare operation to remove a giant basilar artery aneurysm in her brain that threatened her life. The size and location of the aneurysm, however, precluded its safe removal using the standard neuro-surgical techniques. She was referred to a doctor who had pioneered a daring surgical procedure known as hypothermic cardiac arrest. It allowed Pam's aneurysm to be excised with a reasonable chance of success. This operation, nicknamed "standstill" by the doctors who perform it, required that Pam's body temperature be lowered to 60 degrees, her heartbeat and breathing stopped, her brain waves flattened, and the blood drained from her head. In everyday terms, she was put to death. After removing the aneurysm, she was restored to life. During the time that Pam was in standstill, she experienced a NDE. Her remarkably detailed veridical out-of-body observations during her surgery were later verified to be very accurate. This case is considered to be one of the strongest cases of veridical evidence in NDE research because of her ability to describe the unique surgical instruments and procedures used and her ability to describe in detail these events while she was clinically and brain dead."
More on this:
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html
"Some scientists theorize that NDEs are produced by brain chemistry. But, Dr. Peter Fenwick, a neuropsychiatrist and the leading authority in Britain concerning NDEs, believes that these theories fall far short of the facts. In the documentary, "Into the Unknown: Strange But True," Dr. Fenwick describes the state of the brain during a NDE:
"The brain isn't functioning. It's not there. It's destroyed. It's abnormal. But, yet, it can produce these very clear experiences ... an unconscious state is when the brain ceases to function. For example, if you faint, you fall to the floor, you don't know what's happening and the brain isn't working. The memory systems are particularly sensitive to unconsciousness. So, you won't remember anything. But, yet, after one of these experiences [a NDE], you come out with clear, lucid memories ... This is a real puzzle for science. I have not yet seen any good scientific explanation which can explain that fact."
The truth is it is far from being substantiated that there definitely isn't consciousness after death.
Where do you get all this dribble? Don't you know you can't believe everything you read on the internet?
All studies done on NDE have showed that they did not in fact have an out of body experience. Haven't you seen the lengthy experiment where they place random phrases on top of equipment in ER's? Guess what happened? Not one person woke up and repeated the message. Not one.
The mind goes through trauma durning a NDE with a lack of oxygen, They are called hallucinations and the brain may still function while the heart stops. Plus you wouldn't know you brain stopped functioning because because when unconscious you have to track of time. Just like before you were born.LMAO!!
I'm sorry, but to insinuate all those who have had NDE's are just hallucinating is just absurd. You don't even provide links.
On the topic of studies, I found something rather interesting:
THE first scientific study of "near-death" experiences has found new evidence to suggest that consciousness or the "soul" can continue to exist after the brain has ceased to function.
The findings by two eminent doctors, based on a year-long study of heart attack survivors, could provoke fresh controversy over that most profound of questions: is there life after death?
Reports of "near-death" experiences, in which people close to death have vivid encounters with bright lights and heavenly beings, date back centuries, but the phenomenon has been treated with scepticism by most academics.
The new study concludes, however, that a number of people have almost certainly had these experiences after they were pronounced clinically dead. This would suggest that the mind or consciousness can survive the death of the brain - a conclusion that was hailed by clerics last night as supporting religious faith.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/13713 … death.html
c) Effects not due to Oxygen deprivation.
'By examining medical records, the researchers said the contention of many critics -- that near-death experiences are the result of a collapse of brain functions caused by lack of oxygen -- are highly unlikely. None of those who had experiences had low levels of oxygen.'[Ibid]
3) Rules out drugs.
http://www.doxa.ws/meta_crock/NDE.html
So, Hitler was crazy. That doesn't mean that he wasn't a Christian. The two are not incompatible.
I'm not sure what you are not understanding. If someone is an occultist, they cannot be a Christian no matter how much they may claim to be. You didn't answer my question why Hitler chose the black magic rune symbol to represent the Nazis and not the crucifix.
First, no one has proven that Hitler was an occultist. Second, the swastika was not a black magic rune symbol. Third, most Christians don't choose a crucifix as the logo for their business/club/political party, so it isn't surprising that Hitler didn't.
Rune symbols are used in black magic.
"Runes are connected to witchcraft and they are a tool used in divination and magic which have been used throughout Europe, Scandinavia, the British Isles and Iceland from around 100 b.c.e. They are used as an oracle for seeking advice and are said to work best on asking a specific question once having given details of the circumstances, although the outcome is sometimes questionable and unclear.
http://www.occultresearch.org/what-are-runes.htm"
There is no doubting that Madame Helena Blavatsky was an occultist. This is the Theosophy emblem:
This swastika denotes sun worship. Obviously backwards it mean destruction. Now Hitler was a big fan of Blavatsky.
"Blavatsky was taught that the most powerful symbol of these esoteric ones was the Swastika. She wrote there were 7 stages of evolution – she named them “route races”. The race which should rise again to true spirit she named Aryans. In Tibet the Swastika was known as the “son of fire and creation” , but in Madame Blavatsky’s teachings the Swastika was the symbol of the Aryan race."
It was upon this idea of the Aryan race that Hitler practised Eugenics. All unworthy people had to be exterminated to make way for this superior Aryan race.
Guido von List (1848-1919) was an eccentric person who played a significant part for the members of the Germanen Order. He claimed he came to understand the “secrets of the Runes” during an eye-operation. It was from him Hitler got fascinated by the magic of the runes.
von List also had visions that told him of an old Germanic Religion – the worship of the god Wotan. From that point he wanted to rediscover the secrets of the vanished occult heritage of the priesthood.
He knew that the Runes were an early form of writing, but he was convinced they had a deeper, esoteric meaning. He claimed the Runes were the key to the secret knowledge of the ancient Germanic peoples.
von List died in 1919, but his teachings survived through the National Socialists and came to play an important part in its insignia and it was mandatory for SS officers to learn the occult meanings of the Runic symbols.
von List taught that the Swastika was “...the very act of creation” based on the Norse legend about the creation of the universe.
By 1909 von List became quite famous. He even got his own society dedicated to his occult teachings, called the List Society.
He was very fascinated by Madame Blavatsky’s ideas, too, so he incorporated her occult teachings into his own teachings of German myth. The Germanic tribes now were called the Aryans.
In his vision of a new Gemanic state, there would be a strict hierarchy, people would obey without asking questions, only the males of the families would achieve full rights, if you were of an Aryan heritance you would get full citizenship, but you had to prove that you were a real Aryan first. And of course your duty was to keep the Arayan race “clean”, meaning you shouldn’t cross-breed with “lower” beings.
One might say that Guido von List, born Austrian, was the “forefather” to Nazi Eugenics. But there was another man, who picked up the idea and got obsessed by it. His name was Jorg Lanz von Liebenfels ..
Heinrich Himmler – the German Reichführer and the head of the SS – had a clear intention to create a secret Order where Prussian ethics were combined with those of the old Knighthood Orders, like the Teutonic Order (there are journal-films showing German Nazi-soldiers dressed like old knights in armor, with swords, spears and riding horses, doing parades on the streets of Berlin). Some say he could not obtain it, since the “Orders of Catholicism were openly opposed by the radical wing of National Socialism”(1), but the parades I mentioned above tell us otherwise. He also wanted to create his own secret society, without any influence from the traditional ones, who were already top controlled. He was into the Nordic heritage and its symbolism, like the Thule society, but didn’t want any influence from THAT society either. In other words, he wanted to construct a society that was entirely his own creation with himself as Grandmaster with ultimate power. He did achieve that dream.
Heinrich Himmler had been in contact with all esoteric knowledge, and he used it as dark as possible. He was especially interested in Rune-magic. It was Himmler who created the infamous SS and like the Swastika, he used another magic symbol, the two sig-runes, which looked like two flashes. Within the SS all the esoteric knowledge in the Third Reich finally was gathered. SS was ruled by a Black Magic, secret Order. Their rituals were borrowed from other similar orders, like the Jesuit Order and the Templar Order. The highest ranking “priests” of this order were the 13 members of the “Knight’s Great Council”, which was ruled by Grandmaster Heinrich Himmler. The Black Rituals were practiced in the old castle Wewelsberg in Westfalen. Here they obeyed Lucifer, Satan or Set, the consciousness which then inspired the Nazis, and today the Illuminati."
More information:
http://www.illuminati-news.com/hitler-occult.htm
Well, those parties don't profess that they should kill the Jews for murdering Christ. The Crusaders didn't have a problem using a cross as their symbol.You accidentally addressed this to someone named James, so I didn't notice it immediately. Still, my apologies for being slow to respond.
Runes have been around for a long time, but esoteric runology hasn't. Esoteric runology didn't explode until Guido von List published "The Secret of the Runes" in 1908. List is responsible for cementing the connection between the swastika and runes in the public mind. A tangential connection between runes and the swastika did previously exist, in that they had sometimes appeared on the same engravings. However, a swastika is not properly a rune; it is pre-runic. Runes are approximately 2,000 years old, whereas swastikas have been around for -- possibly -- as long as 10,000 years.
So, we have both shared a little history, but conspicuously absent from it is any evidence that Hitler was an occultist.
I don't recall expressing any doubt that Madame Helena Blavatsky was an occultist. As for the swastika on her emblem, the answer isn't mysterious. When Heinrich Schliemann excavated Troy (starting in 1871), he discovered a lot of swastikas. This kindled a swastika mania. Ludwig Müller decided that it was the symbol of a sun god; Michael von Zmigrodski decided that it was the coat-of-arms for the Aryan race. Both of these theories were of interest to Blavatsky; I'm sure that you are aware that her theosophical speculations were rife with Aryan theories.
In other words, it isn't a surprise that a swastika appeared on her emblem.
I do accept that Heinrich Himmler was an occultist, or at least an occult-enthusiast. There does seem to be credible evidence to support this.
As to why Hitler didn't use the crucifix instead of the swastika as the Nazi symbol, I think that question has already been sufficiently answered: the swastika was popularly theorized to be the Aryan coat-of-arms.Eish! Sorry! That's the default name for quoting! Lol!
Runes have always been occult symbols:
"No-one knows exactly how old the runes are. Rune-like symbols appear as cave markings as early as the late Bronze Age (circa 1300 BC), and they are mentioned in the Bible, but their use in ritual and as an oracle for consultation must certainly pre-date their use as a written language.
Eminent scientific runologist Dr R. I. Page of Cambridge University (Reading the Past - runes 1987) notes that the runic forms were well established and gave the appearance of having been in use for some centuries before the time of the earliest written language inscriptions.
The fact that the runes were each given meaningful names confirms that they had some magical or religious significance to their users long before they emerged as an alphabet for records and messages. The word Rune itself comes from the old Norse Runa meaning a secret or mystery, and it seems likely that the early Runemasters and Runemistresses were considered to have some magic or mystic power in their understanding of the runes.
The runes represent objects, gods, people, animals, concepts and occurrences. They were known by names from which their alphabetic values were taken, but it must be remembered that the early Germanic and Norse tribes who developed them did so long before they had any need for written language."
Obviously esoteric means mystery or secret, as does occult, so runes have always been used in magic way before it become used in an alphabet.
http://www.runes.info/runepiece03.htm
There's no such thing as pre-rune symbols.
I have proven that rune symbols have always been occultic and thus would obviously be of interest to occultist Blavatsky.
It doesn't surprise me, either.
So Himmler was an occultist and not Hitler. Surely Hitler as a "Christian" would not allow a Satanist in his party?
In other words, the swastika is dead against Christianity. The seeking of an Aryan race features nowhere in Christianity.You haven't proven anything. You've copy-pasted quotes.
Right now, we are playing dueling sources. I prefer my sources, you prefer yours.
My source, if you are interested, is this book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Science-Swast … 9639776181
I don't own it, but it can be borrowed at most university libraries, or perused on-site
Worldcat shows that 185 copies are available for interlibrary loan:
http://www.worldcat.org/title/science-o … ef_resultsSo a scientific runologist is not good enough for you?
Rune means secret or mystery. I think you have what it takes to realize that it describing the occult and that which is esoteric.There aren't any "scientific" runologists, as runology isn't a science. However, there are historians with great knowledge of runology, and that's what the author of "The Science of the Swastika" -- Dr. Bernard Mees -- is.
Is it true that rune means mystery or secret? Yes or no.
No.
They earned that connotation -- not denotation -- in the 17th century, from fictional writings.You're not digesting what I've posted. The word "rune" comes from the Norse word "runa" which means secret.
I have digested what you posted. I'm explaining that the etymological origin of the word "rune" isn't as straightforward as you think.
EDIT: For example, Olaus Wormius, writing in 1636, derived "rune" from "ryn," a furrow, or "ren," a gutter or channel. Runes were originally carved in wood or stone, so this seems likely. Paul Henri Mallet, writing in 1770, derived 'rune" from an ancient Gothic word meaning "to cut."This site sheds more light on what I am claiming:
Rune:
a. Any of the characters in several alphabets used by ancient Germanic peoples from the 3rd to the 13th century.
b. A similar character in another alphabet, sometimes believed to have magic powers.
2. A poem or incantation of mysterious significance, especially a magic charm.
[Old Norse or Old English rn.]
Word History: Among early peoples writing was a serious thing, full of magical power. In its only reference to writing, the Iliad calls it "baneful signs." The Germanic peoples used a runic alphabet as their form of writing, using it to identify combs or helmets, make calendars, encode secret messages, and mark funeral monuments. Runes were also employed in casting spells, as to gain a kiss from a sweetheart or to make an enemy's gut burst. In casting a spell the writing of the runes was accompanied by a mumbled or chanted prayer or curse, also called a rune, to make the magic work. These two meanings also appear in Old English rn, the ancestor of our word. The direct descendants of Old English rn are the archaic verb round, "whisper, talk in secret," and the obsolete noun roun, "whispering, secret talk." The use of the word to refer to inscribed runic characters apparently disappeared in the late 14th or early 15th century but was revived by Danish writers on Germanic antiquities, who adopted it from Old Norse toward the end of the 17th century. Appropriately enough, this sense of rune, which had faded away like a whisper, reappeared from the mists of the past.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rune
To break the stalemate, let us answer this question. Did the Nazis see the rune as a gutter or channel cut or did they see it as a black magic symbol? Take into considered that you concede Himmler was an occultist.OMG Claire,
Didn't I already show you Hitlers exact description as to why he used the Swastika? I'll show you again.
"As National Socialists, we see our program in our flag. In red, we see the social idea of the movement; in white, the nationalistic idea; in the swastika, the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work." - Hitler
Sometimes a symbol is just a symbol. I know because it's my job as a graphic designer to create and understand them.
Saying everything is Satanic because of the use of a particular symbol is a product of paranoia.
I'm no fan of the Catholic Church, but to say they are Satanic because of one or two upside down crosses is ludicrous.
Take a bit out of the apple of knowledge and ask yourself Why would the writers of the bible want to keep you ignorant? Then go get some help.In the previous comment I was arguing that the rune symbol is an occult one not why Hitler used it. I know what the swastika meant to the Nazis. What I am asking you is that not an occult symbol? Is that not proof that Hitler was an occultist?
I'm sorry that I jumped to the conclusion that upside crosses is Satanic.
In his article, The Kingdom of Satan, Professor J.S. Malan says this about the inverted cross . . .
"This cross is not broken, but turned upside down. It indicates the rejection of Jesus Christ and contempt for the gospel of salvation. Inverted symbols are typical of the opposite values pursued by Satanists. People who are sometimes sacrificed to Satan on Black Sabbath are crucified upside down in accordance with this tradition."
I assume you didn't know that the bent cross held by the cross is Satanic?
Was Jesus crucified in that undignified position with his legs open?
Roman Catholic author, Piers Compton, writing in his book, "The Broken Cross: Hidden Hand In the Vatican", Channel Islands, Neville Spearman, 1981.
This Bent Crucifix is "... a sinister symbol, used by Satanists in the sixth century, that had been revived at the time of Vatican Two. This was a bent or broken cross, on which was displayed a repulsive and distorted figure of Christ, which the black magicians and sorcerers of the Middle Ages had made use of to represent the Biblical term 'Mark of the Beast'. Yet, not only Paul VI, but his successors, the two John-Pauls, carried that object and held it up to be revered by crowds, who had not the slightest idea that it stood for anti-Christ." (p. 72) On page 56 Compton prints a picture of the current Pope, John Paul II, holding this bent or broken cross, just as we have shown, at left.
http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rc100.htm
See the obelisk in St. Peter’s Basilica in the Vatican City at Rome?
"The followers of the pagan or satanic religions of Egypt believed that the spirit of Ra lived in the obelisk. Three times a day, the worshippers of Ra were to face this obelisk and to pray to the god, Ra. According to Cathy Burns in the book, “Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated” , this practice has been transmitted over the centuries in the occultic societies who also “face the obelisk” daily. Here the obelisk represented the phallus of Osiris which was cut into fourteen parts.
This symbol was later transferred to the Canaanite god Baal, whom the prophets proclaimed the hatred of the God of Israel to this false religion. Later in the Mystery religions of the Greeks,
“Pan the goat god and god of sensuality were often represented by the obelisk.”
(Burns, Cathy, Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated)
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatic … can18a.htm
What do the writers of the Bible dot to do with anything? Does me being a Christian make me ignorant?
Do the algebra.After a little research, I discovered that Professor Johan Sarel Malan was formerly the director of the School of Pharmacy at the University of the North, South Africa.
Here is his website, if you are interested:
http://www.bibleguidance.co.za
Professor Malan might be eminently qualified to expound on Satanism. However, I see no evidence on his website that he is anything other than a prolix amateur with a lurid imagination.
By the way, Professor Malan also claims that the Harry Potter books promote witchcraft.
As for the position in which Jesus was crucified, I suggest that the weight of his torso could easily have forced him into this pose, knees akimbo.
Now let's consider the claims of Piers Compton, who wrote "The Broken Cross: Hidden Hand In the Vatican."
First, it is important to know one of Compton's core beliefs, namely, that, in 1958, the Illuminati invaded the Vatican, with the investiture of Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli as Pope John XXIII. This may seem plausible to some, but to most it is the equivalent of claiming that Mata Hari infiltrated NASA. Compton also entertained the theory that, from 1975 to 1978, Pope Paul VI was impersonated by an actor with the initials "PAR."
Here is a link to the complete text of "The Broken Cross:"
http://www.catholicvoice.co.uk/brokencross
Curiously, most sources describe Compton as "a former Catholic priest," but I have some reason to doubt that. First, because -- although there is no English language Wikipedia entry for Compton -- his Spanish language Wikipedia entry makes no reference to his priestly vocation.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Compton
Further, Compton is described as "a young man [who] had tested his own vocation both in England and France before forsaking such a venture and entering into journalism."
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=5518
That's the sort of language one uses when one is equivocating.
As for his identification of the "Bent Crucifix" as a sinister symbol, what can be said of a claim that cannot be substantiated?
Finally, let's consider the claims of Cathy Burns, the author of many tracts for Chick Publications. Burns appears to believe that the Vatican Obelisk represents the penis of Osiris after it has been cut into fourteen parts. Of course, the obelisk also has a satanic connection, because Egyptians bowed to it over 2,000 years ago. It was moved to Rome by the evil Caligula, to the Circus of Nero, AKA the Circus of Caligula, AKA the Vatican Circus, and subsequently relocated by Pope Sixtus V to its current location, in 1586. It has apparently never occurred to Burns that the obelisk functions as the perfect landmark, occupying, as it does, the center of Saint Peter's Square.
I wonder, does Burns believe that this magnificent 4,400 years-old monument should be destroyed, or would merely moving it be okay?Dear God, save us from Chick Publications. One big cesspool of paranoia, hate, and overall BS.
If someone really wants to start a crusade to purge the devil from Christianity, there's your first stop, and I don't mean for directions.First a question: What are you doing here? What do you hope to achieve? Your aggressive and nasty demeanour is not going to change my mind, that's for sure.
Regarding the bent cross, I have also learnt that it is also called the broken cross.
"The Broken Cross has Pagan roots, being the inverse of the Pythagorean symbol for life and Teutonic rune of death, and is vogue with Wiccans and Satanists. It can represent the antithesis of all that Christianity stands for."
Here's something very interesting. Malachi Martin was a Catholic priest, theologian, writer on the Catholic Church, and professor at the Vatican's Pontifical Biblical Institute. He was a controversial commentator on the Vatican and other matters involving the Church.[1]
There could be no one more credible about this matter than this person.
"OF THOSE that have accused the Vatican of being infiltrated by satanists, none has been as widely noticed as the late Malachi Martin. An expert on the Dead Sea Scrolls, he also wrote about such widely diverse topics as exorcism, Church history and modern geopolitics. None of his books have been so controversial — or so misunderstood or ignored by the mainstream press — as his works that deal with this ominous and sensitive topic.
Martin had first made explicit reference to a diabolic rite held in Rome in his 1990 non-fiction best-seller about geopolitics and the Vatican, The Keys of This Blood, in which he wrote:
Most frighteningly for [Pope] John Paul [II], he had come up against the irremovable presence of a malign strength in his own Vatican and in certain bishops’ chanceries. It was what knowledgeable Churchmen called the ‘superforce.’ Rumors, always difficult to verify, tied its installation to the beginning of Pope Paul VI’s reign in 1963. Indeed Paul had alluded somberly to ‘the smoke of Satan which has entered the Sanctuary’. . . an oblique reference to an enthronement ceremony by Satanists in the Vatican. Besides, the incidence of Satanic pedophilia — rites and practices — was already documented among certain bishops and priests as widely dispersed as Turin, in Italy, and South Carolina, in the United States. The cultic acts of Satanic pedophilia are considered by professionals to be the culmination of the Fallen Archangel’s rites.
(p. 632. Emphasis added)
"Malachi Martin documents that a Black Mass was held in St Paul's Cathedral in 1963. During this heinous affair, several cardinals "installed Lucifer to his appropriate place" in the Vatican, as "head of the church."
Martin claims that a good deal of the child molestation occurring now is actually Satanic worship. Part of the Luciferian rites of many of the priests, nuns, and hierarchy. He intimates that many who engage in this kind of "worship" are indeed secret Masons.
Malachi Martin was himself a Jesuit priest, in a high official capacity in the Vatican. "In God's Name" has a photograph of Malachi Martin, seated right next to Pope John Paul I--the Pope that was murdered. Martin is seated between Pope John Paul I (who is on the Papal Throne) and Diego Lorenzi, an aide who accompanied John Paul I from Venice, where he was previously.
Alberto Rivera also says that he attended, as a Jesuit, a Black Mass in the Vatican. With the Jesuits. Martin himself did not attend the Black Mass, but he knew of it. He later resigned the Jesuits--around 1972.He was "Laicized" so that he could write books on the corruptions he had seen in the Vatican.
He recently passed away in 1999. Some Catholics think he was murdered. He also wrote a blockbuster entitled "The Jesuits: The Society of Jesus and the Betrayal of the Roman Catholic Church." In that book, he details how the Jesuits became Communists in the 1960's, under their then Secretary General, Pedro Arrupe. And he documents how they fomented Communist revolutions in several countries--especially in Latin American and Africa."
http://www.puritans.net/news/malachimartin.htm
I was interested in the Freemason part. The eye in the pyramid is a classic Freemasonic symbol.
I'm going to watch this video of Satanism in the Vatican. You may want to watch it, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aD8TU3V … re=related
Ah, it does. If that isn't obvious, then I don't know.
You could say that but it must have been the utmost of humiliation for Christ. How can the Church depict Him in such a way? What's up with the cross being bent?? The cross was never bent. I suspect that the bent cross was designed so that the arms would make the formation of a "V". V also means nail in the Hebrew language and it denotes the victory over the son of God. Your theory doesn't explain why the cross was originally the conventional cross and then changed to the broken cross.
Actually, the Illuminati did invade the Vatican. You also appear to believe that if someone says something wrong or believes something wrong then that means everything they say is wrong. David Icke has talked tripe in the past but there is a lot of his work that is just fact.
Here's the French one:
Piers Compton ( 1901 - in 1986 ) is an author of biographies, historical books and conspiracy theories. He was a religious of the Roman Catholic Church and editor of the Catholic weekly "The Universe" for 14 years 1 .
Biographies
Cardigan of Balaclava
The last days of General Gordon
The Genius of Louis Pasteur
The turbulent priest, a life of St. Thomas of Canterbury
Father Damien
Harold the King
Bad Queen Bess
Marshal Ney
Historical Books
Colonel's Lady & camp-follower: the story of women in the Crimean War
The story of Bisham Abbey
Victorian vortex: pleasures and peccadilloes year of age
The Great Religious Orders
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Compton
There is no English one, yes, but here's a link to Wikipedia entries of people that do reference Compton:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Se … &go=Go
This doesn't prove anything.
Answer me this: Why did the Catholic Church use the conventional cross then change it into the bent one?
Why would it function as the perfect landmark?? What do obelisks have to do with Christianity?
I'll move to non-Cathy Burns sources since she is so offensive:
One Luciferian author writes that "... the lingam [male phallus] was an upright pillar" [W. Wynn Wescott, Numbers: Their Occult Power and Mystic Virtues, Theosophical Publishing Society, 1902, p. 33]
he Egyptians created the obelisk, believing that the spirit of the Sun god, Ra, dwelt in there. [H.L. Hayward, Symbolic Masonry: An Interpretation of the Three Degrees, Washington, D.C., Masonic Service Association of the United States, 1923, p. 207; 'Two Pillars' Short Talk Bulletin, Sept., 1935, Vol. 13, No 9; Charles Clyde Hunt, Some Thoughts On Masonic Symbolism, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1930, p. 101]
A Masonic author both admit that these pillars of the obelisk were used to represent sex [Hayward,Symbolic Masonry: An Interpretation of the Three Degrees, Washington, D.C., Masonic Service Association of the United States, 1923, p. 206-7 and Rollin C. Blackmer, The Lodge and the Craft: A Practical Explanation of the Work of Freemasonry, St. Louis, The Standard Masonic Publishing Co., 1923, p. 94]
phallic worship
Pronounced As: falik , worship of the reproductive powers of nature as symbolized by the male generative organ. Phallic symbols have been found by archaeological expeditions all over the world, and they are usually interpreted as an expression of the human desire for regeneration. Phallic worship in ancient Greece centered around Priapus (the son of Aphrodite) and the Orphic and Dionysiac cults. In Rome, the most important form of phallic worship was that of the cult of Cybele and Attis; prominent during the empire, this cult was notorious for its festive excesses and its yearly "Day of Blood, during which the frenzied participants wounded themselves with knives; self-inflicted castration, a prerequisite for admittance into the priest caste of this phallic cult, took place during the festival. In India, the deity Shiva was often represented by and worshipped as a phallic symbol called the lingam. Phallic worship has also been practiced among the Egyptians in the worship of Osiris; among the Japanese, who incorporated it into Shinto; and among the Native Americans, such as the Mandan, who had a phallic buffalo dance. -See C. G. Berger, Our Phallic Heritage (1966); T. Vanggaard, Phallos (1972). [source] -http://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/36550.html
http://www.remnantofgod.org/steeple.htm
Isn't Shiva the devil?
I don't give a continental.What am I doing here? What do I hope to achieve? As far as HubPages are concerned, I imagine that my hopes and ambitions are similar to yours. I enjoy an intellectual exchange, and I thought that's what we were having. You told me previously that you enjoyed our dialogues. Now I am apparently aggressive and nasty. Our disagreements don't make me aggressive or nasty. I'm simply disagreeing with you, and presenting reasons for my disagreement. I'm not calling you names, or impugning your character. If my tone has occasionally been sarcastic, my apologies. I get sarcastic when I get frustrated, and the intransigence of our dialogue -- on both of our parts -- has sometimes been frustrating. Again, my apologies.
Malachi Martin does appear to be a credible source. I have no access to "The Keys of This Blood," so I have no method presently of confirming the quotations, but I will read it as soon as I can. I've read his "The Jesuits: The Society of Jesus and the Betrayal of the Roman Catholic Church," and it was quite good, so I look forward to reading "The Keys."
I'm not going to respond to all of your points, as it seems that you interpret it as me picking on you, but I will respond to a few more.
First, I'm not sure why you shared your excerpts and links concerning Compton, as none of them demonstrate that he was a Catholic priest, which is what I was disputing.
Why would the Vatican Obelisk function as the perfect landmark? It would serve as the perfect landmark because it can easily be seen from a distance, which is the function of a landmark, to helps travelers establish their location. What do obelisks have to do with Christianity? Absolutely nothing. There are architectural structures in every city that have nothing to do with Christianity. Why would Vatican City be any different?
Is Shiva the devil? No. Shiva is actually "the destroyer of evil." If any Hindu god could be considered Satan, it would be Kali.The past tense "enjoyed". I do not enjoy it now because of your aggression and belittling. You tell me I need to get help and this forum deserves mockery. It no longer becomes a debate but an attempt to get the upper hand through dirty methods.
I accept your apologies, however.
You can address them now since you apologized. I'm sure I will have no problems with them now.
Forget his biographies. I misunderstood that. However, the French wikipedia entry says:
Piers Compton ( 1901 - in 1986 ) is an author of biographies, historical books and conspiracy theories. He was a religious of the Roman Catholic Church and editor of the Catholic weekly "The Universe" for 14 years 1 .
Bad English, "religious of the Roman Catholic Church" insinuates he was a former priest.
I googled whether he was a Catholic priest and come across several links one citing:
"According to Piers Compton, a former Catholic priest, the Papacy was actually subverted by the Illuminati in 1958 when John XXIII became Pope. This was the culmination of a 200-year campaign to infiltrate and destroy the Catholic Church."
http://www.savethemales.ca/000338.html
Reread what you said and you should get that you don't make any sense whatsoever. The statue of "Christ The Redeemer" in Brazil can be seen from far and is a landmark. I think it is wrong to choose a symbol representing a penis and Baal worship.
Shiva is actually considered God and Satan as one, which in actuality is Satan. God and Satan cannot be one but Satan can masquerade as God when he wants to deceive. The evil eye is supposed to represent the warding off of evil when it is the eye of Satan himself.
I got this encyclopedia entry on Shiva:
"The third deity of the Hindu triad of great gods, the Trimurti. Shiva is called the Destroyer (of evil), but has also the aspect of regeneration. As destroyer he is dark and terrible, appearing as a naked ascetic accompanied by a train of hideous demons, encircled with serpents and necklaces of skulls. As auspicious and reproductive power, he is worshipped in the form of the shivling or shiva linga (lingam).
Shiva is depicted as white, with a dark-blue throat, with several arms and three eyes. He carries a trident and rides a white bull. His consort is Parvati (Devi)."
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/s/shiva.html
Sounds evil.
I can't help thinking what Jesus said: "Satan can't drive out Satan. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand."I've never told you that you need help. Other people have, but not me. I may have said that some things deserve mockery; I don't know. If I did, I am curious about the context.
Some sources describe Compton as a former Catholic priest, and some don't. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. Still, you may be right, and I may be wrong. I'm suspending judgement pending a more definitive answer.
We are going to have to disagree about the Vatican Obelisk's suitability as a landmark, and about Shiva.Page 10:
Chasuk wrote:
"I'm sorry, Claire, this type of silliness deserves to be mocked."
Page 18:
"Take a bit out of the apple of knowledge and ask yourself Why would the writers of the bible want to keep you ignorant? Then go get some help."I made the first statement, but "Rad Man" made the second.
I confess to a poor word choice. I hope that you notice that my actual delivery was playful, not derisory.
I should have said:
"I'm sorry, Claire, but I find your thesis ridiculous."Chasuk, it wasn't playful and you know it.
I do apologize for the false claim about you telling me I need help. Radman butted into our conversation so I assumed the next reply was yours.
Claire Wrote: "Does me being a Christian make me ignorant?"
Not necessarily, but your obsession with symbols makes you nerdy with possibly paranoia. You seem to think that everything that is not Christian is Satanic. Look it doesn't matter what the swastika was used for before Hitler used it. He used it to symbolize his perception of Christianity, which unfortunately promoted the hatred for Jews.
So what if St. Peter’s Basilica in the Vatican City is shaped like a phallic symbol. St. Peter's is in Roma and they are Italian. Need say more."He used it to symbolize his perception of Christianity, which unfortunately promoted the hatred for Jews."
Read the exchange between me and Chasuk. You will discover otherwise. Remember, those who are interested in what nerds have to say must be nerds themselves!Yes, his misguided view of christianity, not Satanism as you keep eluding to.
Oh, I'm certainly nerdy about certain things as well.Yes, of course, misguided. Misguided people slaughter millions because they are, well, misguided. It's not because they are evil, heaven forbid!
Why are you so bothered by the word (misguided)? Are you of the mindset (misguided) belittles bad deeds? Do you think any other worship besides Jesus is Satanic? If this is the case then that is what I was eluding to in an earlier post. You're spreading hatred and bigotry.
Hitler was misguided by christianity to hate Jews. To assume satan had anything to do with that is ridicules.
There is no satan and that is not a satanic statement. Wait I'll look for him... Nope nowhere.Because you can't equate the word misguided with evil all the time! Has it ever occurred to you that some people know damn well what they are doing and relish in it?
People who partake in other religions are not Satanic but are indirectly paying homage to him out of ignorance. Likewise, anyone wanting to be a "star" is associating themselves with him. Anyone denying his existence is right up his ally. After all, if you go to war and you don't know who your enemy is and where he is guarantees an easy defeat.
Time to move on, please.
First, there is the etymology of a word. Second, there is the definition of a word, which is sometimes related to its etymology, and sometimes not. Third, there is the connotation of a word. Fourth, there is the emotion and symbolism that a word evokes. All of these are different -- if overlapping -- things.
The Nazis may have understood the etymology of the word "rune" (I have no way of knowing whether they did, or whether they didn't), while still perceiving it as an occult symbol.
However, the swastika is pre-runic, not a rune itself, and I believe that it is the swastika that is really the focus of your question.
The swastika predates runes by thousands of years, which should make its non-runic origins obvious. To quote Charles William King, writing in 1887: "The Swastika signified at first the arms crossed over the breast, the regular Indian gesture of submission, and also the legs similarly folded as the statues of Buddha are usually represented. The symbol is evidently nothing more than the rough outline of the arms and legs thus disposed."
As for how the Nazis saw the swastika, they saw it as a coat-of-arms for the Aryan race, an idea promulgated by Michael von Zmigrodski.
Yes, I accept that Heinrich Himmler was an occultist, or an occult-enthusiast, but this doesn't mean that Hitler was.
Himmler's occultism would not have dissuaded Hitler from trusting him. After the July 1944 assassination attempt, Hitler disbanded the German Military Intelligence and elevated Himmler's Sicherheitsdienst as the sole intelligence service of the Reich.
Provide evidence from Mein Mampf that Hitler was an occultist. Provide any non-speculative -- preferably firsthand -- testimony. If you provide it, I'll read it, research it, and change my opinion, if warranted. I have nothing invested in Hitler being an occultist or not being an occultist; I'll live my life the same either way. My allegiance lies with the best evidence.
To be fair, I don't think we should call the entire German world at the time of Nazism gullible. If they had not been forced into extreme poverty and strife by the mandates of WWI, they likely wouldn't have gone along with Hitler in specific or the regime as a whole. I don't know about you, but most people I know would be willing to try anything if those they loved were dying of starvation and they couldn't afford the wheelbarrow of under-valued money it took to buy a simple loaf of bread.
It's very easy for any country to make one group of people the scapegoats for all their problems...
(Sorry I missed a message before I replied). To say definitively that there is or isn't these beings is arrogant. To assume that you, a person, can truly know, is arrogant. Does that mean we don't have to make assumptions one way or another to be able to decide our lives? Of course not. Still, I do find it terribly odd that most people attribute "the devil" (i.e. "the adversary") to "Lucifer" (i.e. "the morning light") as though it were obvious when even some of the leading religious scholars in the Abrahamic faith claim either that they are different or that we cannot know for sure what was meant by the decisive separation of the terms. We cannot truly call a person arrogant or intelligent based on faith, but rather we should look for the reasons behind that faith and study the concepts in an intelligent, thoughtful way. Whether or not the contents of the bible are true, there is much debate as to which sense they are true in. Further, arguing based on assumptions and words from contemporary assumptions is pointless. For any meaningful answer to be found we must discuss from a more objective, scholarly viewpoint that investigates what the texts and evidence we have found suggest, rather than whether they are or are not definitively true.
Further, Claire, I beleive that Rad Man meant that all people can do evil and that "evil doers" as a classification group is invalid as a whole. The concept of the evil-doer is used as a scapegoat by contemporary leaders as well as old leaders, whether politically or religiously. The point, I think, is that people do things because they do, either out of greed or some similar drive. Whether or not that can be related to a supernatural force is besides the point, since he seems to be saying that people should think critically rather than class any group as evil-doers. Otherwise, you have Americans attacking a country uninvolved in their misfortune, Germans believing that Jews are responsible for their starvation and plights worst WWI, etc. Desperation and scapegoats go hand in hand, which either makes people gullible, or makes them seem so from RadMan's perspective.
Is that what you observe in your neighborhood often?
I can't tell you how worried I was about you. Where have you been?
The symbol of Nazism was not a black magic symbol, it was originally a symbol of peace (Hindu, I believe) that he changed the angles on as a sign of "Christian peace for Christians." If Hitler was not Christian, I doubt people would have worked so hard to get baptized and have papers that said they converted early enough not to be faking it, he wouldn't have cared.
Symbols for the simply minded, have we learn much?
High IQ, unbalance by using Religion as a tool for his mental illness which was then labeled afterwards as the Hitler illness called, Megalomania
To be fair, that neithre makes him simple minded or necessarily mentally ill. He was simple in that he was a mouthpiece for more intelligent and ambitious members of the regime who saught him out for his charisma and his ability to make almost anything sound good. Those people likely implemented the symbol. Regardless of whose decision it was, however, taking Christianity (especially but not exclusively) to suit one's own aims is not new. In fact, Nietzsche argued that making people happy to be on the bottom rung of society and forcing them to comply was the original aim of the popularization of the faith by leaders. Making people feel that their goals are justified in the name of faith is not so much simple-minded as one of the most powerful and most often used political tactics of all time. that being said, it is important not to assume that symbols mean what people have corrupted them to mean. Those that originally designed the symbols meant them for other purposes (i.e. swastika for peace, pentagram for protection from evil).
Sounds like a psychopath? Interestingly enough, psychopaths are not insane. They are highly manipulatively, clever and cruel. Or he could have just been possessed by demons.
Satan made him do it.
How about many Christians group are possessed in killing accounting to my study of World human History
Just eliminate the Devil from your books and mind, and you will be OK
Truth is, Baytiana, is that the swastika is a symbol for the sun and sun worship is serpent worship and that is Satanism. Baal was a sun god.
That's not to say that Hindus are Satanists. They just don't know any better.Their Religion is much older than Christianity and 40,000 years before your Adam and Eve
I guess all that practice of worshiping animals and nature with spiritual leader like Gandhi never amounted to the righteousness of Christianity, right? Was it a wrong translation as Son for Sun under God
Or
Gandhi and Hitler together arm and arm, yeah, right.More like Micky Mouse and Donald Duck walking into the Sunset arm and arm featuring the Disney's Holy lands
Lol, what are you talking about? Yes, it's older than Christianity but not older than Adam and Eve! Hindu is 4000 years old, not 40 000. Wow, not even the most ancient Chinese civilization is that old!
There's a difference between been deceived and knowing what the practice means. The interesting common link was that both Gandhi and Hitler were fans of Helena Blavatsky and her Theosophy.
The point I'm trying to make is that Satan infiltrates every facet of life hiding under the guise of good. The worse infiltration has been in the Catholic Church.Lady, you've got a screw loose. Thus endeth this debate.
Claire Evans
Many in America believe Columbus discovered America and almost half believe the world is under 10,000 years old. i guess you wouldn't know how Hindus history goes unless you were keenly interested.
At the world trade show displayed America culture with a lot of Disney's, Holy lands and Hollywood features. I know some wise and intelligent Americans, too bad too many Americans are lost in Fantasy Wars and fight clubsTo be honest, Castlepaloma, I'm skeptical of the 40,000 claim, and I am one of those who is keenly interested. I just finished university in 2009, and made a point of taking all of the courses that I could concerning Indian history. We naturally talked about Hinduism, and my professor -- who was raised a Hindu -- placed Hinduism at about 7,000 years old.
Where did you get 40,000?It's part of my job is studing anicent and nature history and making a few displays in museums world wide. Modern humans evolved maybe 150,000 years ago, perhaps even earlier as 200,000 years ago. I have been to India a few times and we found that HINDUISM is the oldest living culture in the world and some msytic culture go back 40,000 to 50,000 years ago
The written langage was only discovered 5000- 6000 years ago anything before this is vague. There are 40,000-year-old cave painting seen on a white silica sandstone rock depicting existence of human civilization is seen in southeast of New Delhi, India These cities housed about 40,000 people who enjoyed quite a high standard of living also
The once-thriving Hindu community in AfghanistanYes, I accept that Hinduism is the world's oldest extant culture, but the 40,000 year figure still surprises me. Thank you for the education.
So the culture is 40 000 but the scriptures are at most 7000 years?
About 40 000 years ago. man was a Homo sapiens neandertalensis. Were the Hindus neanderthals? How did they communicate their symbols?
Claire, you are showing how little you understand. Modern humans go back 200 000 years. Man was never Neanderthals. Human and Neanderthals co-existed outside Africa until 40 000 years ago and recent DNA results all humans outside africa have Neanderthal DNA. Because modern humans and Neanderthals were able to produce offspring means we have a common ancestor with Neaderthals.
I saw a Neanderthal get on the bus the other day
You will get a lot of conflicting figures. So I will cite some of them but none goes as far back as 40 000 years.
"Vedas (ancient Hindu scriptures - Rig, Yajur and Sam) are quite old. The oldest among them, Rig Veda might be 7000 years old (5000 BC or earlier). Note that the ancient Sanskrit meaning of Veda is the accumulated or compiled knowledge, and therefore Vedas also represent the record of early civilization in addition to being Hindu scriptures.
There is confusion about the beginning of Vedic era. Sometimes it is indicated to be around 1500 BC, but that seems quite late and illogical according to Vedic references and archaeology.
For example, in several Vedic hymns dedicated to river Sarasvati, she is described to be actually flowing and existent. But in reality river Sarasvati does not exist anymore, because, according to archaeological research, it dried up and disappeared in north Indian sands several thousand years ago, around 5000 BC (or earlier)."
http://seva.sulekha.com/blog/post/2006/ … d-them.htm
Then we have the date 3500 BC
"Definition: Veda means knowledge, and the Vedas are said to come from Lord Krishna. The Vedas contain knowledge about mundane necessities as well as spirituality essential for Hinduism and its predecessor, Brahmanism. The texts of the Vedas are called Samhitas, and the Vedic prayers are known as Mantras. The Rgveda (Rig Veda), Samaveda, the Yajurveda, and the Atharvaveda are the four books of the Vedas, in chronological order. The Rgveda is thought to have been written, in Sanskrit (as are the others), between 1200 B.C. and 800 or 1500 and 1200, in the Punjab. In contrast: Determining the Age of Saraswat Community, from Archaeology Daily News, says Vedic scholar Dr. NS Rajaram suggests "Such sites [as Kunal and others along the Sarasvati River] are likely to date to 3500 BCE or earlier. These when found are likely to be from the Age of Rigveda."
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/indu … 8Vedas.htm
The Sumerian texts (6000 years old) were written in cuneiform and that is the oldest writing system. Older than Sanskrit. So surely the Sumerian Tablets were written before the Vedas, the oldest Hindu writings?Claire
Your greatest source of biblical human history according to christian science on record beside the the flintshone documenary is this---
Made for 27 million dollars in Petersburg, Kentucky USA. The creation/evolution controversy is a debate about science, two views conflicting evolutionary humanism vs. biblical Christianity.
The Creative Museum is a Museum that presents origins of the Universe, Life, Mankind and man’s early history according to the book of Genesis. Earth and all of its life form were created 6014 years ago an over six-day period. The display shows dinosaurs like they were pets in your backyard. Young earth creationist claims, including the idea that human and dinosaurs coexisted, and the dinosaurs were in the Noah’s Ark along with the likes of T-Rex and all the other animal on the Ark were vegetarians until the boat returned back on land, then the carnivores drop their carrots and lettuce and return back to eating meat.hola CP!...drove over the rockies recently....had to take the trans can though - the 'nest' was not looking good...will look you up next time i pass through....
...err...sorry for the interrruptionKootenay is the tourist route, Tran Can is the save money route besides they did had a few mud slides blocking the Highway
Come on by, when you have plenty of time and money on your hands for a pleasure tour, it will be fun to meet a real person from this forum.
By the way, I'm building a World record sandsculpture at the new Ramada iNN during the evening between June 21 to Oct 14 everyday in Creston. If you like , I'll give you a free workshop on sandsculptingkewl!...i'll keep that in mind...i will definitely be passing through Creston...i luv that route to Alta.....whatcha mean by a pleasure tour
..yeah, i'm sure we'll meet up this summer for sureBeen too busy to meet up with any exciting women yet, and this town needs and wants to be entertained. Funny Christians John lost his shoe last week .so, come on down,
Nature here is one the best in the world, better than living in English bay for sure.Are we talking about Creston, BC? I used to live near there.
Are you talking about the Kootenay,? rarely anyone lives in the Kootenay's
Then yes
I've lived in many countries and visit many places worldwide, yet have not been at a place where it's felt like an awakening and in awe everyday by nature beauty except around Kathmandu Nepal
Perhaps you forgot to mention that all these creatures including thousand of different species of the very large dinosaurs were kept in a boat half the length of a modern day cruise ship? The Amphicoelias fragillimus reached 200 feet in length. Two of those facing each other would be almost as long as the Arc. With just those two animals there wouldn't be room for much more.
Common sense people.Common Sense? Faith requires a belief in uncommon things, does it not?
Faith requires one to be gullible and ignorant, does it not?
No, actually the scriptures are written so that even a child may understand. It's very interesting to me how so many self proclaimed intelligent persons seem to have such a hard time with such an easy concept.
I loved how my children's church teacher kick me out of class and church for laughing out loud. Why? because the story he told about the bald headed priest who shredded the children to death for mocking his bald head, was so bizarre and sick , you had to laugh as a kid.
Wow, I am sorry to hear you had such a strange experience in Church....Do not make the mistake of basing your thoughts of Christianity on a mere person.
Nah, what's much worst is quoting negative quotes from the Bible and were they ignore you completely, there after.
Go Tammy.
It's your birthday.
(so to speak, lol, I'm soo not ghetto)Haha, thanks vector:) It truly saddens me how many people are deceived.
Yes, you are correct. They are written for a child. And Christianity would like you to be child like and not question. They don't want you to have knowledge. A little critical thinking and you might find yourself kicked out of the Garden, just like Adam and Eve. Don't take a bit out of the Apple of knowledge. Stay in your child like state. I loved Santa too when I was a kid.
Well there is the difference, see if I were lucky enough to be in the garden, completely fulfilled, I would love to think that I would not desire knowledge of an evil that could never touch me as long as I obey. I have seen so many disgusting things on the news lately, pure evil, child molestations and murders, I would love to not have those images in my brain; I would love to know those things would never have existed as long as I obeyed, I am sure that would be the sentiment of Eve.
For millions of species, not including the Dinosaurs?
Too bad, they did not know how to read or write or watch TV, back then. I wonder if their wild stories were made up like Hollywood dose today.Castle, you did not deserve to be ignored. Children are naturally inquisitive and you should have been praised and taught.
Most Christians I know will ignore you, if they think it's hopeless to convert you, including my real brother, who is a pastor
What if your faith required you to believe that the moon was literally made of cheese? Would you believe it?
I anticipate that you answered, "No."
You answered "No" because you intuitively understand that having faith does not require that you surrender your intelligence. Why don't you intuitively understand, then, that having faith does not require that you believe something stupid?My faith never asks me to believe something stupid. Dinosaurs did not live in Bible times, good grief, come now let's expand the mind. In Genesis we learn that God created the world in seven days, in Revelations we learn that a day is to a thousand years as a thousand years is to a day in eternity. Faith merely removes the ignorant questioning of mankind who can never begin to understand. Why do you think we only use a tiny portion of our brain? At least in this life.
If you follow the thread that Castlepaloma started, you seem to be defending the notion that dinosaurs were passengers on the ark, which necessarily entails the existence of dinosaurs in biblical times. That would have been the "something stupid."
As it appears now that you were not actually defending that notion, my apologies.Sorry, I did not read from the top, just jumped in:)
tammybarnette
When you and mankind know so little. How do you know you have the right Religion out of 10,000 other Religions you have not studies as well?Castle, all mainstream religions worship the same God. Most only believe in the Old Testament. I am a Christian, I have been raised Baptist, but I truly only believe in my own relationship with God. Trying to explain to a non-believer is hard, it's like someone with only one leg explaining to someone with two legs what it feels like to only have one leg. I feel Him. When I pray sometimes the answer just comes to me, I believe that's Him. Nothing could ever change my mind, as sure as I know who I am I know Him. I believe scientific proof, I believe they are discovering that life is so layered that there is only one answer, and by the way many scientist believe in God. Castle, it doesn't matter what you want to call your religion, if you want to know Him just talk to Him. If you want an unexplainable peace within your soul, just talk to Him. You have been misunderstood in this life but he knows every thought in your head, evary hair on your head, and he loves you, this I KNOW:)
Oh no, we completely understand why you hold those irrational beliefs and it has nothing to do with legs.
tammybarnette
1, Nobody knows for sure how many of the Old Gods still exist, or servants of the Old Gods, the Old Gods might be endless in number. As with all bosses mortals can kill an Old God.
2. How many Gods/Goddesses of Mount Olympus? 12 Gods
3, Hinduism There are thousands. Though all them are ultimately different avatars of one of the three main gods: Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva.
4. There are not really any true Gods in Buddhism. They believe more in karma,
5. There are 24 documented Roman gods.
How many gods and goddesses were there in ancient egypt ? One, three, or seven? The Bible gives no specific answer to this question.
The are thounsands of GodsCastle, there is only one God, I don't know what else to tell you. I feel something when you speak, I hear hurt in your words, He is what is missing in your life Castle. Just as you are, He loves you. You can refute my words, that's okay, but if you want to know, ask Him.
Perhaps, you could tell us with your "open mind" that all the other gods throughout history and the ones people believe in today don't exist outside of their imaginations.
We us all of our brains, your claim is a myth.
No, faith requires the eradication of common sense and the belief in that which has never been shown to exist. It can be best summed up as delusion.
Your name precedes you. Faith doesn't eradicate common sense it defies it. You say we use all our brains? Honey not to be condescending but have you ever read a book? We do not use even a fraction of our brain. However, chin up, you do not have to be a genius to know God, you do not have to be rich, or beautiful, or young, you only have to be open minded and willing to learn. God loves you the same as He loves me.
So, does it make you feel empowered or superior by starting off with a personal insult? How childish.
Once again, your silly claim is a myth, most likely because you yourself have not read books. See here, they even teach this stuff to children...
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html
You mean open minded like you, who spreads myths about the brain, who is not willing to learn that we do in fact use all of our brains?
Yes, I understand believers have no concept of love because they're indoctrinated to believe the ignorance, violence, hatred and bigotry their gods exhibit to others has something to do with love.Oh my troubled, I guess I struck a nerve. I guess you are use to being the only one who is superior. Look, I do not think I am superior to you, I am however educated. Seriously man, please google it or something, we do not use all of our brain, only a fraction, why are you stuck on this. If you prefer to not know Christ, to not learn, to not love, then this is your prerogative. Peace be with you:).
Do people not realize it is futile to try and persuade a person who has their mind made up? In whatever fashion it may be, the mind is sacred ground to whoever it belongs too. A aboriginal person would most likely laugh at the fact that we are all here on the COMPUTER posting our views on some subject HE already thinks he knows more well than us. He probably is scared of the computer, and sees no need for it. It is alien technology to him. It this is how all of life is. All of you are wasting your time and energy, laughing, putting down, researching, citing, and over some lady's post. Or did I miss the part where everyone is merely trying to prove they are sane to themselves? "Someobody please agree with me. Somebody like what I have to say" Somebody help me out here. Somebody please be on the wavelength as me." Thing is sanity is like water. It fills in whatever space you put it in. A tub, vase, glass, whatever. Sanity is sanity. To each his own. Do not waste your time. People need to just think for themselves. Share their views respectively, and move on. If people were so sure of themselves, why continue posting and posting and posting? Yea. They wouldn't. They wouldn't need ANYONES approval.
To you, yes.
Good luck. May the G-Force be with you.Why only me? Aren't the others also arguing in vain?
The question was directed to me, by you, so I replied directly to you. Nothing personal. Everyone will be going on and on and on. That's my point. However there are some very simple things we can all stand up for equally, without all this long winded stuff. Simple stuff like family, love, freedom, health, etc. (First we must all come to a common understanding as to what these are first, should be simple enough) All the things that make life wonderful, not miserable and worrisome for all of us here. We all lost equally, long ago, the sight. The real sight. Piercing and true. It would take forever to elaborate, but basically, its the ability to see and choose what are you willing to die for. Is it your beliefs? Traditions? Research? Truth? To me, life is supposed to amount to something much more than.. well, what we have now called life. We all fight to keep things we never helped create ourselves. Like the economy, the law. Some will fight and die for a country they know nothing about it. Beliefs... where do they come from and do they really matter? I think we should all come to terms with that fact that we are mere composite people. Full of indoctrination, suggestions, and false identities. Start there and I think people will awake to the real truth. It is really simple to get too, hence the reason for all the BS we deal with daily to keep us occupied. Sadly though, the thought of leaving the familiar will stop the majority. As it always has throughout history.
again. Good luck to you.I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I couldn't help but answer it.
Yes, there are others arguing in vain, but few argue as intelligibly, nor with as much intelligence, sincerity, or passion.
Take the focus that your contributions generate as a compliment.
I don't mean to be divisive or deliberately contrary, but the "we don't use all of own brain" thing is actually a myth.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/con … -our-brain
http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percent.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_percent_of_brain_myth
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic … t-of-brain
For what it's worth, I didn't appreciate the mythical nature of this claim until it was debunked for me by by my professor in developmental psychology.Greetings again.
Citing material is.. well.. faith.
Unless you were there, you will never know for sure now would you?
You take on what one or two or a thousand people say, and base your certainty on that. Some people will say, well we all saw a duck in the park. A thousand people will say yes, it was a duck. But you will make a decision there. Do you follow this and bet on it? Or do you say, well I wasn't there. I might not have been a duck because you could have all been paid to lie. Certainty only comes with experience my friend. Till then, the truth is ever elusive to those who take on things based upon scientific evidence, cited material backed by thousands of scientists/experts, all of the above is faith based at its core. I saw a duck yesterday. Do you believe me?
I now understand the confusion, so my apologies. I am not declaring the old 10% myth. As humans we do not have the ability to fully access all of our brain, all of the time. If we could we would all be geniuses. Instead or brains are only as functioning as the user, much like our computers.
erickch, you make a good point. I just have a weak spot for standing up for Christ. And by the way if you say you saw a duck I do believe you:) I choose to believe in the good in people, etc. until I am proven wrong. When it comes to God, nobody has ever proven me wrong and never could. I am open minded, I do entertain ideas in astrology and the 12 personalities.... I really like to ponder and philosophize about possibilities, but all things lead to Christ in my book.And if you could imagine yourself growing up in a land 50,000 years in the past with no governments, schools, TV, etc. What would you philosophize? I think these are the pertinent questions all of need to ask. If you have a life, who's will does it follow? Yours? or Something else?
As I believe I've stated before the swastika is a symbol for many things. Hitler used it as a symbol for " the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work." Hitlers own words.
It may be hard for you to come to terms with someone like Hitler can be Christian so you've invented all kinds of propaganda to make yourself feel better.
Christians do bad stuff too.
You seem to be under the spell that any one no Christian is Satanic or ignorant.Hitler could have really shown his Christianity by using a crucifixion. After all, the Crusaders did it.
If I couldn't come to terms with Hitler being a "Christian" and so post all sorts of propaganda to "make myself feel better", I wouldn't post this picture.
or
In case you are wondering what that means, the all seeing eye is the eye of Lucifer.
Hitler was trying to emulate the Crusaders? I didn't know.
You miss the point. The Crusaders used a cross to represent their Holy War to recapture the Holy Land, Jerusalem, from the Muslims. Hitler could have used the cross symbol to represent his "Holy War".
Recognizing and Understanding Delusions
Some delusions may seem relatively harmless in the short term, such as delu- sions of being a rock star, royalty, or a religious figure. These delusions can be potentially harmful, however, if they include or lead to delusions of having special abilities or characteristics such as flying, walking on water, or invinci- bility. Most common, however, are paranoid delusions: the belief that some- one or something is going to harm the person in some way.
Paranoid delusions are usually evidenced by extreme suspicion, fear, isola- tion, insomnia (for fear of being harmed while asleep), avoidance of food and/ or medication (for fear of poisoning), and sometimes violent actions. A person experiencing paranoid delusions has extreme difficulty trusting others, will frequently misinterpret others’ words and actions, and experience ordinary things in his or her environment as a threat.If you want to think I'm deluded, so be it. You can't blame me for thinking the Catholic Church is Satanic, though, when you see the upside cross in the picture.
I can blame you, actually.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_St._PeterNo you can't Chasuk.. lol, C'mon man.
By Jesus' definition they are evil.
They like the pharisees prefer the "high seats" to be above others.. no humilty there, which is opposite of pride.. Satan's top notch sin.
Prideful people with "authority" between you and God..
Ya.. Evil. How much money do you NEED? LOL
Greed isn't good.. it's evil.
I could keep stackin buddy. Just sayin is all.
Time to stop reading this forum, I've run out of popcorn.
If it has no meaning though.....why put it in a music video of Lady Gaga with an upside-down crucifix on her crotch and swallowing black rosary beads?
Just innocent imagery? I don't think so.I have unfollowed this thread twice yet I still keep getting notifications. Could it be ...Satan?
Why do so many people think the Cross of Saint Peter is satanic?
Because crucifying him upside down was an homage to Lucifer.
As is the Satanic symbology used in popular culture. imoCrucifying him upside down was in homage to Peter demanding to be crucified upside down because he did not count himself worthy to die in the same way as Christ.
When people in this day and age try to turn it into a symbol for satanism, quite frankly, the joke's on them.
I was waiting for someone to ask this.
Point to scriptures in the Bible that claim Peter was crucified upside down? There is none so the Church made it up to justify their Satanic symbol.
If Peter was crucified upside down, HE would be upside and not the cross. I hardly believe that the Romans would give a continental about how Peter wanted to die.Peter was probably not crucified head-down.
The story seems to come from the apocryphal "Acts of Peter," in which Peter is reported as saying:
"I beseech you the executioners, crucify me thus, with the head downward."
An English translation of this apocryphal document is available here:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t … peter.html
The quote comes from the last sentence of section XXXVII.Actually, the church tradition goes is that Peter was crucified on an x-shaped cross.
http://www.gotquestions.org/apostles-die.html
Also:
http://www.jrsbible.info/Apostles.htm
People, upon hearing Peter was crucified upside down, would automatically assume that the cross t-shaped was also upside down not taking into consideration he was crucified upside-down on an x-cross provided the story of his upside crucifixion is true.
If he was crucified upside down, it would be to the amusement of the crucifiers and not because they could care about how he wanted to die.
It's no joke.
Peter may have done it for that reason---but I can assure you Gaga didn't.
And it's very odd to me how some can believe in God, but not the Devil.Yes, Gaga will gladly take any perversion or disgusting idea and act she can get.
And your last sentence.. It's odd to me as well.Peter allegedly being crucified upside down is mere tradition and not Biblical. Nowhere in the Bible does it say he was crucified upside down.
I remember they raise the Canadian flag upside down at a worlds series. After that Toronto Blue Jays won two World Series in a row
Ha, only Canadians were outraged because Americans had never seen the flag to begin with. To bad Toronto can't get another winning professional franchise. Although the Jays are doing Okay so far. Eh?
If you tell me your cookie that you are holding in your hand is "special" and filled with luck and then you stomp on a rock on the ground telling me the rock is evil... well do your thing, to me a cookie is just a freaking cookie and I collect rocks, so there. I am also Christian, I have given my heart, soul, and spirit to Christ. Signs, symbols, and objects, mean different things to different people. If you want to see evil you will see evil, in a cookie, a star, a rock, even the air you breathe, if you dwell on it enough. You keep yourself busy with that and... I will continue to find joy, love, happiness, and beauty in the things that are around me. This is what I choose to dwell on.
I don't fully agree with the satan part but ..... "Corporate and political and religious psychopaths ruin economies. They ruin societies." capitalism at its most rut
