2 suggestions

1. 56

   Jerrico Usherposted 16 years ago

   Paul would it be possible to make pictures clickable, i.e. you could add a feature in the capsule to make the picture clickable so if your picture was about another hub they could click the picture and it woudl take them to the other hub or web address etc.. or add a way to add a link in the same area as the picture caption for the same idea?
   
   second thing.. how can we add music to our page (that loads automatically)? if theirs no way can we have one added? I want to play a midi (an alluring one thats only 3 k but plays a symphony of sublime utopia rythms) can we get this feature/choice or is their a way to put one in there?
   
   thanx in advance for your response
   
   Jerrico

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   1. 67

      relacheposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I hope this is NEVER EVER allowed at HubPages. 
      
      Jerrico, I'm guessing you missed my post to another thread where you talked about this, and I mentioned that Yahoo will automatically downgrade any pages that do this in their listings, and that it's the #1 most user-complained about feature (meaning web users hate it). 
      
      I'm not making that stuff up BTW.  I'm good friends with a man who works at Yahoo, and he actually is one of the guys who works on their search algorithm and spam filtering.

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      1. 56

         Jerrico Usherposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         I'd like to read that thread (unless it has no new info than you put here).. I figured out a cleavery way to do the music that is actually more appealing  I could create a youtube video, upload my retail music (so I can use a whole song and make a video to highlight it (meditative scapes I created) then at the top of the hub I could offer them the atmosphere choice..(this one that one or that one.. each having a different atmosphere that would compliment the page (as I show them how to meditate or whatever), then if they want they can hear it and read while it plays.. this is great because it can easily be seen with my picture text header thing and it wont affect anything google yahoo etc.. so it resolves it but gives them a choice to hear it or not.. (I always find a way to make it work lol hehe)

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      2. 61

         mathan1234posted 16 years agoin reply to this

         I absolutely agree. Auto-loading midi is very Geocities from1995. Auto-loading music on a page is a huge pet peeve of mine, and many other people.
         
         Sorry. 

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2. 69

   Peter M. Lopezposted 16 years ago

   Ditto on the clickable images.

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3. 58

   Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

   I am with relache on this. I automatically NEVER visit a site that has music that plays when you open the page.

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4. 69

   Peter M. Lopezposted 16 years ago

   Ditto Mark and relache on the music.
   
   Still, Ditto on the clickable images.

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5. 58

   Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

   I can take or leave the clickable images. It's easy enough to add a link capsule underneath the photo and as jimmythejock pointed out in another thread, his adsense earnings have gone up since he stopped offering lots of reasons to leave the page.

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6. 69

   Peter M. Lopezposted 16 years ago

   Good advice Mark, I hadn't thought of that (giving them reasons to leave).  Thanks.

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   1. 56

      Jerrico Usherposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I wonder if you guys, as seasoned and brilliantly attentive as you are could enlighten me as to a list of thingst hat make someone leave a page.. maybe you all can make a few suggestions in this area? is their a hub that consolidates the top reasons etc..? I'm on a deep learning curve and you got me curious when you brought this up

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      1. 76

         Lissieposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         
         Music -  I don't care whether its relevant in your opinion -I as a reader can't stand background music
         Websites which assume inside knowledge to navigate - govt websites are really bad for this !
         Lots and lots of different fonts/colours - like a lot of sales letters have  - we went thru that stage when the bosses learnt how to use Word and had no idea that having more than one font in a paragraph makes it hard to scan!
         Sites which start with an intro - particularly a heavy graphic intro , double especially the ones that don't let me skip it!
         Too many photos which load slowly before the text - though firefox helps this - photos don't need to anything more than low res on the web

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         1. 60

            casparposted 16 years agoin reply to this

            Absolutely - Flash-based sites which often start with a slow-loading fancy show-off intro make me see red and hit the back button. 
            
            Also, sites which start with a screen where you have to click (usually some tiny link or something hidden in a picture) to "Enter this Site".  I'm already at your site - show me some content NOW or I'll be hitting that back button PDQ.
            
            I don't mind sites with music as an option (click to hear whatever) but starting music immediately the page begins to load is an absolute no-no (many people are surfing in the office while pretending to work).

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            1. 85

               Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, I think that's the #1 reason why sites with music are a bad idea.  I used to do most of my surfing at work before I got broadband at home, and there were plenty of sites that I crossed permanently off my list, because they played music.

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               1. 56

                  Jerrico Usherposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                  what would myspace pages be without a loading song??? lol I have a juke box on mine.. but thats a different kind of page I know.. What I wanted to do wasnt for so much background music it was for a specific hub on meditation, what better way to get them all gitty and relaxed than to play a sound scape to bring it out like a movie brings out your articles point.. it is better that they play it though because subconciousely they will feel more inclined to listen as they chose it..

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7. 90

   thooghunposted 16 years ago

   Music on web-pages, in particular the nonesensicle random midi music that crown some of the worst web-pages I've had the displeasure of visiting.
   
   Honestly, imo, there is no greater turn-off!

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   1. 56

      Jerrico Usherposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I think a yeast infection is more of a turn off than a midi website

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8. 56

   Jerrico Usherposted 16 years ago

   i didnt know that about the yahoo thing.. so I guess its good no music. as for the music being the annoyance of a page I disagree, its not the music but the kind of music you choose, the music I had was very captivating like an atmosphere track, in fact I had for my meditation CD site an actual mp3 playing an atmosphere scape (my hottest selling rain/ocean scape clip that just looped a tiny peice of it that sounded very alluring, I got more traffic when I put that there and alot of compliments.. I believe it has alot to do with the type of page you have, if your looking for mediation and land on a beautiful page with rainscapes on it it enhances your experience.. midi pages of old were incredibly annoying but lately their has been a rash of really nice ones.  I think this is a complaint because of the lack of awareness on the web designer to pick the right sound, music doesnt work on all pages and I was only wanting to use a tiny clip or specific midi on a hub I wanted to create about meditation so music fit the theme.. but this is just my opinion.. I likethe idea of putting the link using the link capsule, forgot about that one

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9. 82

   Whitney05posted 16 years ago

   I think what they're speaking about in terms of giving people reasons to leave is adding other links and clickable things (links and such). Which is what I believe Mark is referring to when you ask about clickable pictures.
   
   As for music, I would prefer them not on any website I make or visit. I think I've only run across a VERY small handful of sites that add music well. It must be very low volume that blends in with the content of hte site. I've run across many sites that include loud, boisterous music that tends to be completely uncalled for.

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   1. 85

      Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, that's what I understood too.  When I first started on HubPages, I thought having lots of links to other sites was a good thing.  And I'm still a bit perplexed, because one of the criteria for a Flagship Hub is to have lots of links.  But JimmytheJock definitely said he was doing better without them.

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      1. 58

         Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         One of the things that google uses to rank a page is the quality of outgoing links as well as incoming. It's a balancing act and only google know the rules.

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      2. 83

         embitcaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         You'll find that what's good for the reader and what's good for making money are two different things. This is just one example. If you're looking to build something that will be regarded as an authoritive content source on a subject, then that site would naturally include links to other handpicked sites that expand upon the topic and support your own content. This is part of what would make your page so valuable to a reader, enough so that they would bookmark it to refer to later or link to from their own sites.
         
         On the other hand, if making more income from a particular page is your main focus, then you will naturally only want to include links that will make you money, whether that be adsense or affiliate links.
         
         It's two different strategies and I think both of them work on Hubpages. Clearly, the Flagship Hubs program isn't solely designed to drive adsense clicks. It designed to improve Hubpages reputation as a site with authoritive content. This is good for for the site overall as it will bring more traffic to other pages as well and also increase search engine attention. And ultimately, that will also help everyone make more money, just in a more roundabout fashion.
         
         Does that make sense?
         
         As far as what Google themselves like, several months ago they went on an account banning binge, basically shutting down tons of accounts of webmasters of what is known as "Made for Adsense" sites. Sites with little content and little use to the reader. They were made basically to drive adsense clicks.  So while Google likes to make money, it clearly isn't the only factor in their overall mission. They reward good content and punish bad content, even when bad content makes them money.

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10. 58

    darksideposted 16 years ago

    I'm unsure how a midi file can attract more visitors.
    
    And like Lissie, as a reader I don't want background music. Unless it is of my choosing.
    
    And Caspar is dead-set correct. Whether people are pretending to work, or surfing a site during their lunch break at their desk, you start up the music without forewarning and you get one very peeved off visitor.

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11. 85

    Marisa Wrightposted 16 years ago

    Thanks Mark, that explains it.  So I guess that means we do need some outgoing links - but maybe we put them down the bottom of the Hub so people are less likely to notice them??

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    1. 58

       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I don't know about not noticing them, but I like to place them as close as possible to the google ads. That way, for example, at the bottom of a hub, the reader has a choice of places to go - a link, another of my hubs or a google ad.
       
       But I am not sure I am getting the best out of this yet. It takes practice and a little time to see what works best. And just when you get it worked out the format will change,

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    2. 56

       Jerrico Usherposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       outgoing links helps google get more page impressions for their ads, its about the numbers if you have a tastful amount of links out of your page this helps people flow out to other ads on the net (pages) if you have none its like capping off the potential flow. just my two cents
       
       Jerrico

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12. 61

    Keny Lugerposted 16 years ago

    I think I like Hubpages the way they are...no clickable pictures and no music....just great engaging content.

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    1. 76

       robie2posted 16 years agoin reply to this

       me too, me too<lurking in the shadows> If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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13. 85

    Marisa Wrightposted 16 years ago

    Jerrico, I think your idea of creating a Youtube video is the best solution.  That way you get music in your Hub for the people who want it, plus you can promote your HubPage on Youtube.  Bonus!

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    1. 56

       Jerrico Usherposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       i never thought to do that.. do I just create an account there and link vids back to  my pages? hmmmmmmm
       
       ok going to bed cant even see the screen anymore..

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14. 85

    Marisa Wrightposted 16 years ago

    I thought that's what you meant Jerrico - join YouTube, post your videos there, then embed them in your Hubs.
    
    I notice that other people promote their webpages on YouTube by (a) including a title slide with the webpage on it, or (b) having the name of their webpage scroll along the bottom of the video.  Also, you can put a link to your Hub in the description of the video.

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    1. 56

       Jerrico Usherposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       nice!

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15. 56

    Jerrico Usherposted 16 years ago

    I think I'm going to take advantage of this next holiday valentines day and my decoding love blog (finally finished it) for marketing new hub writers.. I'm thinking of making an agressive campaign around promoting the article and encouraging people to sign up.. wish me luck!
    
    Jerrico (see I can keep it short) *smiles*

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16. 66

    Rudraposted 16 years ago

    Also Youtube allows you to add adsense to your vids.

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    1. 58

       darksideposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       How so?

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       1. 56

          Jerrico Usherposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          yea i saw that but can we use that on our pages of is this breaking hubpages rules.. they basically encapsule the youtube video inside an ad campaign frame.. I want to use this for more exposure via youtube because it also would allow us to put the ads where ever we want like amazon and ebay since the movie capsule is placable
          
          I think that hubpages should look into how we could do this, they could control also the ads in the you tube videos the same way they control the ads that hit the page, they use the same account and code)
          
          Jerrico

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    2. 70

       Isabella Snowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I asked Paul about this when it first became possible in October and he said something to the effect of he wasnt sure if it would be possible on hubpages.

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       1. 56

          Jerrico Usherposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          maybe we could create the youtube adsense deal and put it on a webpage off of hubpages, then link some videos directly to that page to see it may not be a good idea but is an idea.. just throwing it out there

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17. 58

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    Quite right.
    
    Generating traffic by being an authority on a subject and making money from a page are two entirely different things - and not necessarily complementary.

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18. 83

    embitcaposted 16 years ago

    Exactly. Anytime you run a search on Google, what site is likeliest to turn up at the top of the results? Wikipedia. Does Wikipedia run Adsense on their sites? No.But Google sure loves them.
    
    Also, it should be noted that Adsense is not a factor at all in how Google determines a site's authority. The Search Engine and Adsense run completely different spiders out to look at sites.
    
    My hot tip for creating Hubpages is to look at how the hubbers who consistently maintain scores of 100 - 98 and compare and contrast what they do. You'll notice that people like Jimmy and Relache use completely different strategies when building out their hubs, but you need to look at a bunch of them to note the trends, not just one or two.
    
    And finally, I think it is a mistake to build webpages based solely upon what you think Google will think of them. Build pages for your readers. Google is just a robot.

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19. 58

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    Oddly enough, part of this is something I felt compelled to write about recently:
    
    How I got my hub to be on Google's first page
    
    Making money is a different, and soon to be published one,

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20. 83

    embitcaposted 16 years ago

    I read that one when you posted it here previously, Mark
    
    But I am definitely looking forward to your next one.Show Me the Money!

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21. 58

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    I am planning it.
    
    Several people asked me how much traffic/how much money I was making, but most seemed to miss the point that with this many opportunities to leave the page, and this many reasons to look at something else, it is unlikely to make much money as it stands. I will be posting an update after a month or so, and adding how to turn it into money. Watch this space

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22. 83

    embitcaposted 16 years ago

    You just need to plaster a big affiliate link for motorcycle loans at the very top of it
    
    And then every other paragraph include it in bold
    
    I look forward to your Money Making Report!

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23. 76

    bloggerdollarposted 16 years ago

    Pages opening with a MIDI melody just so 90's Jerrico you should publish webpages 15 years ago:) I'm already frightened thinking of all the personal webpages with animated gifs and MIDI files. Grrr..

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    1. 58

       darksideposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Sounds like Geocities circa 1997.

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    2. 56

       Jerrico Usherposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       You’re missing the point of what I wanted. I'm not looking for (nor was I then) midi opening, I said midi but realistically I wanted to add a symphony of atmospheres from my retail line to the page, they invoke using a specific technology, altered states of mind (pleasant ones) but mostly I wanted to add a clip to a meditation hub I'm working on to drive the concept of meditation home.. Just like in my hub about the ego I started it off stimulating the reader’s ego to drive the point of how the ego is stimulated with mere words and the way their strung together. Also realize I put the midi on the page with a volume control set to low, so it wouldnt load and be loud for someone at work, they could barely hear it and could turn it up..
       
       I guess I should have explained it better, I did have a midi that sounded like an mp3 that I'd of used (still will) because of its affect on the mind when entering a site specifically seasoned visually for it.. Unlike the 90's technology is much better (just look how this site uses flash modules or somethign like it to make these capsule work, simple stimulating to see the background fade while you work on the page)
       
       I liked the idea of a sort of juke box using YouTube (thanks darkside for the insight in how to make a song into a you tube module/mpeg I tried that thing with pictures and fades and was impressed, I'd never used this windows movie maker before, new ideas hit me when I started playing with that.. simply amazing what we don’t see (that movie player is plastered over the start menu when you first get windows installed (I removed it thinking I would never need it)..
       
       as for the midi thing once again, open your mind, get over the 90's problem of over endulgence in midi mania, not everything fits into these things, my page was nothing like a 90's page I've always innovated.
       
       Happy hubbing, have a hubtific day..

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       1. 62

          words2contentposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          I cannot but appreciate Jerrico persisting for that elusive piece of info that would allow him to play audio as his hubs open on being clicked.
          
          Frankly, why should there be any stopping a person if he wants to have audio in his hub! It'll be a choice for members to include that if they so want. I guess HubPages does not want to give the options of audio to the members.
          
          If not an automatically starting audio, why not permit members to include audio clips leaving the choice to visitors whether or not to click on them and listen to them!
          
          To the best of my knowledge, to have play/start buttons for an audio clip will need 3 files - a javascript to define the buttons, a flash script to present the audio, and the mp3 of the audio itself.
          
          These files are to be located somewhere, and obviously HubPages will not give the space for them. Once they are available in a server that can be used by a hubber, all he needs to do is simply include some codes in his hubs that will call the scripts to action.
          
          While play/start buttons 1) induce visitors to readily click on the clip, and 2) play the audio in the hub itself, one can also include a simple link to the site that houses the mp3 audio file.
          
          The reason of my elaborating things as I know them is to see if anyone has better alternatives to suggest. Or is it that audios are just not allowed here..?

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24. 59

    chabrenasposted 16 years ago

    I think I understand what you'd like to create, Jerrico - and I think it would work for the audience the page was aimed at.
    
    One of the problems with using Flash video/audio clips in typical websites is that people tend to do it on home or other index pages - so every time you return there while navigating around the site, you have to wait for the bl##dy Flash to load, and then you get distracted by the images and sound.  That's a complete turn-off.
    
    But most Hubs are standalone pages, so you should be able to get away with (or even profit from) creating a multimedia environment, as if you had entered a room with the lights dimmed and soft music playing in the background.
    
    Trouble is, the tools for doing that can be grossly misused - worse than a bucketload of fonts in a  desktop publishing program. The consensus here seems to be that you'd have to create a good-quality video (a skill in its own right) and imbed that in your hub. Then you start wondering why the hub is there at all.

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25. 61

    belief713posted 16 years ago

    Ok, on the thing with music....yes it is annoying to visit a webpage and you hear music and can't figure out how to turn it off.
    
    But, I don't think it would be bad to have a way for users to listen to music with the option to play/pause/stop it. If it was their choice to click on the play button as opposed to it loading automatically...If it was done that way, I don't see how it would be a nuisance?
    
    Isn't it done the same way with our video capsules?...the user has the option to play the video (which sometimes has music - but almost always some type of audio).
    
    Of course, I don't think it would be that easy to set up because the audio file you wanted to play would have to be accesible on some site (maybe like an mp3 or something similar).

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26. 72

    Inspirepubposted 16 years ago

    I hate websites that play audio, especially if you can't click anything until the audio finishes.
    
    However, several people I know who make a decent income from internet marketing swear that putting audio on their site improves their conversion rate, whether that's a free opt-in email newsletter, or a paid product sale.
    
    I guess there's a proportion of people who like it, and that proportion outweighs the people like me, who shriek and hit the "back" button!
    
    Jenny

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27. 58

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    Hello  all,
    
    Jerrico has been asked and agreed not to enter any forum discussions and I think it is not a good idea to resurrect this long dead thread because he is unable to respond.
    
    Leave this one alone and start a new one if you want to.
    
    It is not fair on him.

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    1. 58

       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

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       1. 58

          darksideposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Maybe we should start a new thread... "Why HubPages will never have music playing in the background".
          
          Also this thread being closed would be a good idea too.

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28. 53

    jhsmartposted 16 years ago

    I'd have to agree on the music thing. I can't stand sites that have music or video that automatically starts. Ewww!!! Disgusting. Just some engaging content is good enough for me.
    
    JS:)

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