HP Management What is the current "share" percentage for Authors on HP

1. 94

   Solarasposted 12 months ago

   I have tried, unsuccessfully to find the current terms of service for HP or TAG.
   
   That last forum post, written by Robin E. 2 years ago, generously provided 3 links to the Terms of Service and Rules, but those links have now been redirected to The Arena Group, "Where The Action Is" landing page.  No where can I find a link to our agreement.
   
   So, what is our percentage of the Ad revenue? Is that after "expenses?"  If it is after expenses, what percentage of total revenue do these expenses amount to?
   
   The Terms of Use say all content belongs to TAG.  Does that include our content?  Do we still own our work? What about the images editors have replaced our original images with?
   
   Thank you in advance for answering these very basic and essential questions.

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   1. 77

      Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      All these questions are fundamental and functional to writers at hubpages.                                       Thanks for putting them up.

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   2. 91

      Thelma Albertsposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      I hope we will get answers from your questions. I want clarification, too.

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2. 90

   Jodahposted 12 months ago

   Very interested to see if this query receives a response.

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   1. 77

      Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      It must receive a response.                                        Matt, or other hubpages staff must chirp in.

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3. 88

   Ben716posted 12 months ago

   10 years ago the ratio was 60:40. I'm not sure whether the ratio still holds to date. Back then revenue-sharing sites offered an author-publisher ratio based on Google placed Ads on one's articles.
   
   The articles aren't exclusively owned by Arena. If it was the case, majority of writers wouldn't write for Hubpages, and the payment would have to be higher than the one earned through a revenue-sharing site. Unless the table has changed...

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      Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Very curious indeed, and wondering.

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4. 97

   eugbugposted 12 months ago

   Impressions are again way down for Thursday compared to views. Either this is a stats anomaly which sometimes shows impressions half of what they are until they update after a day or two or there's a continued drop in the impressions/stats ratio. There's no asterisk beside the revenue figure, so it seems the value for earnings is final. Again I'm wondering is there a reversion to the previous setup where our ads are shown a percentage of the time and Hubpages are shown the rest of the time? However it's more like a 50% of the time ratio now, instead of 60%.

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      Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Who knows?

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5. 94

   Solarasposted 12 months ago

   This is a fundamental question that should be easily and immediately answerable.
   
   It is disturbing not have been given a link to the current terms of service.
   
   Please post a link to whatever it is new authors sign when joining the hubpages community as a new author.

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   1. 96

      jansharesposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      I agree, Solaras. So strange that it's been more than a day since your post without a reply. \_O_/ It's also strange that it's not written anywhere that's easy to access. The best I could find was an HP article from 2020 which states it's still 60/40. The Learning Center was like trying to find a needle in a haystack. It shouldn't have been that hard to research or to just get a straight answer.

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   2. 96

      AliciaCposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      I agree, Solaras and Jan. It’s a strange way to run a business. They say they’ll pay us for our writing, but they won’t say how they calculate the payment. That may be okay for new writers, but not for many who started writing here under the old agreement.
      
      The site needs to clearly state how we earn from our work with specific details. Yes, if the information that's shared is bad news it may stop some people from writing here or cause them to delete their account, but it’s the ethical thing to do.

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6. 97

   eugbugposted 12 months ago

   I presume the reason the 60/40 clause was removed was so that the share we get can be varied to pay the bills to run the site.

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   1. 77

      Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      That's not realistic. Hubpages should specific the rate of making the payouts.

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      TessSchlesingerposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      +++

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7. 95

   alexadryposted 12 months ago

   The lack of clarity on this subject is very concerning. I always assumed things remained the same as the original agreement.

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   1. 77

      Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Not with marven, hubpages' husband.

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      1. 85

         Misbah786posted 12 months agoin reply to this

         "Not with marven, hubpages' husband."
         Can you please elaborate I am also interested in knowing about "marven"

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            Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

            Deleted
            1. 85

               Misbah786posted 12 months agoin reply to this

               "You this moslem lady from Pakistan, how dare you!"
               
               Please excuse me! You have no right to bring up my religion or nationality in this matter. By the way to be honest I think it isn't a typo. You do this with everyone's name.

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               1. 77

                  Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  To be specific, no, a firm no. It's not even intentional.                                      Let me recall with your name, right?                                Mizbah? D'you think I intentional did that sometime last year? And you of course, like it. And last month. Misbah? Ah! And, I though the 's' was a ...oh how does it come I began to think again until I realize my mistake.                                               'You this moslem lady from Pakistan'. Mizbah,(don't you like it again?) Are you not proud of your faith and country? It was descrptive statement, not hate speech.                                   In the part of my country that I come from, the though is that you're a strong woman for putting me into a chakenge(challenge). I'm afraid of you. But forgive  me.

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                  1. 85

                     Misbah786posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                     I am very proud of both my religion and my country.... but I believe there was no need to bring faith and nationality into this discussion. You have nothing to be afraid of, Miebakagh. Just be careful next time... !!
                     Peace!!

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   2. 88

      Kenna McHughposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      I agree!

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   3. 94

      Solarasposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Yes, as is the fact that someone went to the trouble of redirecting the links from Robin E.'s 2020 Forum post, telling us where to find the new TOS, to the splash page for TAG Partners.
      
      Why not redirect to the new TOS? Why not tell us what our percentage is and what expenses are being paid before the split is made.

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         Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

         That would have solve the problem easily.

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         Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

         Good thoughs and talk.

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8. 85

   Misbah786posted 12 months ago

   Very interesting. I'm hoping for a quick response to this query. It's strange that no one from HP has responded to this thread yet.

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   1. 77

      Miebakagh57posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Soon, soon, Matt, will. I think he's doing some studies under the situation...when Hubpages came under maven and TAG                                                     Critically, HubPages is not the same when she came under these two business ventures. Matt is will have a hard time.

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      1. 96

         AliciaCposted 12 months agoin reply to this

         Sorry, Miebakagh, I disagree. We have no idea whether anyone is working on the situation, since we're not being told anything. The management team may think that the current situation is fine and that there is no problem to solve.

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   2. 94

      Solarasposted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Don't hold your breath.

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         Misbah786posted 12 months agoin reply to this

         Let's hope for the best

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9. 94

   Solarasposted 12 months ago

   Here is a little exercise.  Feel free to tell me where my numbers are off.
   
   If I assume 25% of my pageviews are the number of readers who make it to 3/4 of the way through my article:
   
   The percentage of US Internet users using ad blocker software is 27% (mostly readers from the 16-24 year old age group so this percentage may vary by topic.  Geriatric topics would have a lower percentage, youth related topics would be higher).
   
   And I assume they have seen 7 ads on their way to the 3/4 point in the article, then the following formula should represent total impressions.
   
   Pageviews X .25 (those who get 3/4 of the way through the article) X 7 (number of impressions they saw) X .63 (those without ad blocker software) (X=multiply).
   
   Take that number and multiply it by .60 (60 percent which should be your share of impressions).
   
   What does that figure look like to you? Mine looks more like I am receiving 40% of the impressions using a very conservative formula.
   
   What if 30% of readers make it 3/4 of the way through the article? Then my final number of reported impressions is closer to the 34% mentioned in their proud press release.
   
   I am very interested to see if anyone else has similar results.

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10. 60

    TessSchlesingerposted 12 months ago

    I don't really bother to look at my income on hubpages these days, but I've just looked, and I'm shocked. For the week, it's $3.23.
    
    Compare that to the last 24 hours, which as a result of Medium, both direct and indirect, I have received $5053.81.
    
    Something is wrong somewhere.

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    1. 95

       hclpdposted 12 months agoin reply to this

       Wow! I never know Medium could be that lucrative. I don't suppose, however, that I would find any success there.
       
       No harm done in trying, though!

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          eugbugposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          I only make about $5 per month so I've cancelled my subscription for the moment. Nobody reads my practical stuff or science/math tutorials over there anyway.

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          1. 95

             hclpdposted 12 months agoin reply to this

             I was just doing my bit of research over Medium. It seems that that the usual stuff I dabble into here might also be a good fit for Medium after all.
             
             And yes, Medium seems to attract a different croud altogether.
             
             In any case, I had around 20 finished articles, ready to be published here, but I'll be opting out for now.
             
             The plan is publish them one by one over Medium.
             
             Also, will be against the terms and conditions, if I asked for your Medium profile link?

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                eugbugposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                If you search my name over there, you'll find me.

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                   hclpdposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                   Couldn't find you by name.

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                      Misbah786posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                      Search on Google: Eugene Brennan on Medium.
                      You'll be able to find him easily.

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                   2. 95

                      hclpdposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                      Yep. Found you.
                      
                      Just a small suggestion, though. You may need to redo headings for some of your posts. Looks a bit.... vapid?

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                         eugbugposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                         I have to look up that word

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                      eugbugposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                      Eugene Brennan?

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                      1. 95

                         hclpdposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                         For some reason, I csnt follow you. I have subscribed, though.

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                            eugbugposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                            Medium is showing you as a follower. Did it say you can't follow me? Maybe there was just a temporary glitch and it just gave an incorrect response. Medium is buggy at times and doesn't always work properly.

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                               hclpdposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                               Now it shows that I'm following you.

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       Isivwe Muoboposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       People earn that much on Medium? No wonder the site keeps getting new users.
       
       I would put more of my effort into Medium then. $3+ so isnt worth the time and effort spent writing

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       1. 60

          TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          No, they don't. I have. There are people on hubpages who used to earn $10,000 per month - but it was an exception. I have no doubt that what I have taken home over the past year is somewhat exceptional.
          
          95% of writers on Medium never crack the $100 ceiling.

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11. 88

    Kenna McHughposted 12 months ago

    I agree! We can check it out via legal representation. I'd hate to that happen because nobody wins. I hope HP chimes in!!!!

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12. 94

    Solarasposted 12 months ago

    It seems we are not deserving of an answer.  Such a simple question, how are we to be paid. What is the formula?  What is our current agreement? 
    
    Not answering this simple question is sending new articles to other platforms. Those who comment are a small portion of those who  lurk on the forums.

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    1. 85

       Misbah786posted 12 months agoin reply to this

       There are too many forum posts created daily under different topics. Maybe someone can send an email to the team to bring this query to their attention. There's a chance that the HP Management team hasn't noticed it yet.

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13. 83

    psycheskinnerposted 12 months ago

    We used to see 1 or 2 Hubstaff on here keeping track of things.  Not so much for the last few years.

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    1. 94

       Solarasposted 12 months agoin reply to this

       Matt Wells responded to the "No Ads" thread on Monday. So they are aware of the forum posts.

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14. 94

    Solarasposted 12 months ago

    So I had a mini-viral moment where pageviews were up total 66% but sadly earnings only increased by 11%.  Seems peculiar.

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    1. 96

       DrMark1961posted 12 months agoin reply to this

       I asked a question of Rupert the other day (he had increased views from a news article) and he stated that his earnings were improved. My earnings from the news articles does not match the improvement in page views, so I think it is like social media views, which are brief and maybe the ads dont even load. Not sure, but disappointing as the earnings do not match the views.
       I do not have the exact numbers like you but have noticed a trend.

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       1. 97

          PaulGoodman67posted 12 months agoin reply to this

          Yeah, often I get a surge but the earnings don't go up much. I think that it depends on numerous factors, the value of the keywords to advertisers, and where the article's being viewed from, being two of them.
          
          It's kind of annoying.I'm not as excited by surges as some (I'd rather have something more long-term, even if more modest), but it would be nice to get a few extra bucks now and then.
          
          There are exceptions, where I seem to have made some money from a surge, but that's not typical.

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15. 90

    AdeleCosgroveBrayposted 12 months ago

    I, too, would like to see a reply from staff in order to address the issues around low income from this site. For me, the last two months here have been very low, to the point where I'm only just scraping the pay-out threshold. My income hasn't been this low since I first began publishing here 12 years ago! This site used to be a worthwhile source in income which I had recommended to others for that reason, but I would not recommend it as things stand.
    
    The articles now look like clickbait, plastered in irrelevant adverts. So many writers here have pointed this out already, yet we've been ignored.

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    1. 88

       Kenna McHughposted 12 months agoin reply to this

       I hear you!

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16. 97

    eugbugposted 12 months ago

    Hubpages possibly aren't at liberty to discuss it with us because TAG won't allow them.

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       AdeleCosgroveBrayposted 12 months agoin reply to this

       Where did you find this information?

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       1. 97

          eugbugposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          It's not facts, just speculation. If we don't know the answers, it's natural that we think all sorts of things.

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17. 77

    Miebakagh57posted 12 months ago

    That hubpages has still not respond to the question seems odd.

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18. 95

    Sue Adamsposted 11 months ago

    I found this: HubPages Network Terms of User
    https://hubpages.com/help/user-agreement-2019-10-02
    
    Read section 9
    9. EARNING MONEY THROUGH HUBPAGES...with specific reference to
    HubPages Ad Program:
    
    "Your Earning Page View share will be selected based on a 60% chance of generating earnings for the author. Your earnings will be based on a formula selected by HubPages, in its sole discretion, which formula HubPages may change at any time for Your account."
    
    The question is:
    Do writers get a share of the income from the numerous "sponsored ads", the so-called "advertorials" below our articles?

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       Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

       I'm wondering as that beats my mind.

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    2. 97

       eugbugposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       The last update to that was 2019 though (Before the TAG takeover?) and the question is whether it's still applies. The TOS webpage linked to at the end of every Hubpages page doesn't mention anything about 60%.

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    3. 94

       Solarasposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       I'd like to know that as well as what is the current "formula selected by Hubpages"
       
       Why can no one answer this simple question?

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       1. 97

          eugbugposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Maybe because there aren't Hubpages staff anymore and everything is centralised and my Marie Celeste theory is correct. So Matt just works in the engine room, keeping the site ticking over. TAG don't answer any questions, at least not on social media and have told us to send our queries to Hubpages.

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       2. 77

          Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

          D' you the mean any author here or staff of team.hubpages.com/? Wondering.

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19. 95

    Sue Adamsposted 11 months ago

    Old Agreement
    https://hubpages.com/help/user-agreement-2019-10-02
    
    HubPages Ad Program.
    "Your Earning Page View share will be selected based on a 60% chance of generating earnings for the author."
    
    "If HubPages changes any significant terms of the Affiliate IDs program and/or HubPages Earnings Program, HubPages will notify You by email, if reasonably practicable, at least two weeks before any such change occurs."
    
    Did anyone receive such an email?
    
    New Agreement
    https://thearenagroup.net/author-submis … -addendum/
    
    "6. Payments to Authors
         4.Your Earned Balance shall be calculated and based on records generated and/or maintained by TAG (The Arena Group)."
    
    You are correct Eugene
    It doesn't say anywhere what percentage of ad revenue is the author's share.
    
    One way to find out when our 60% share went out the window is to examine our Balance History. In my case, I stopped reaching the required monthly $50 balance in July 2019.
    
    What about other folks?

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    1. 98

       chef-de-jourposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       The bottom line as far as I'm concerned is the lack of communication when changes to revenue sharing occur. We as writers need to be informed. It's unethical to leave us in the dark. Fair enough if belts have to be tightened, just let us know!!
       
       I can understand any normal business having to cut costs when times are hard. All businesses have to evolve to survive. But HP is special because it works through mutual cooperation between writers and staff -  longevity is proof that most of the time this has been a positive arrangement.
       What's clear is that TAG have altered the small print regarding revenue sharing and somehow deemed it necessary to stop this essential communication from HP staff to the writers. Come on, we're all grown up, tell us when radical change occurs!

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       Isivwe Muoboposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       I agree.

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20. 95

    Beth Eaglescliffeposted 11 months ago

    Sue, thanks for posting the link to the new agreement-addendum.  https://thearenagroup.net/author-submis … -addendum/ I found it very informative; albeit in a negative way!
    
    Deep in the small print it contains the answer to the question about what percentage we authors are paid.
    
    Under EARNINGS PROGRAM it says " The formulas used to determine participants’ earnings may not be the same across all Earnings Accounts that participate in the Ad Program."
    i.e there is no longer a set rate for all writers. TAG varies the rate depending upon how valuable they feel an individual's contribution is.
    
    Under MODIFYING THIS ADDENDUM it says "We may make changes to this Addendum from time to time. If we make material changes, we will provide you with notice of such changes, such as by sending an email, providing a notice through our Platform or updating the date at the top of this Addendum."
    i.e They don't need to send an email to inform us of changes, posting the Addendum on TAG's website is sufficient.

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    1. 94

       Solarasposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       I would not call that "the answer to what percentage we authors are paid," instead it is a further wrinkle to the question. However, that is the answer to why no one will ever answer the question.  Some animals are more equal than others.

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    2. 98

       chef-de-jourposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       Annoying to think they can change things and not inform writers upfront and plain. It's like we're not even an afterthought.
       
       Still, underneath all this is the idea that the awful ads placement issue is costing them and us earnings! I just don't get it.

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21. 96

    daydreamsposted 11 months ago

    I agree with this. The lack of transparency is unethical.
    
    This puts me off publishing anything further via Hubpages. I'm happy to collect my current earnings but investing more time here seems risky.
    
    How can Hubpages expect people to want to contribute good quality content if they are effectively saying we can change what we give you at any time?

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22. 95

    Sue Adamsposted 11 months ago

    Hello all,
    
    In answer to the 2 questions:
    
    a) Do we still get 60% of ad revenue?
    b) Do writers get a share of the income from the numerous "sponsored ads", the so-called "advertorials" below our articles?
    
    I just received this email from Matt:
    Hello,
    
    We cannot share any more details than are supplied in the Terms of Use and the FAQ.
    Writers do earn a share of sponsored ads below articles.
    
    https://thearenagroup.net/terms-of-use/
    https://hubpages.com/faq/#royalties
    
    Periodically we receive inquiries from the author community regarding the specifics of our HubPages revenue share formulas. While the company does make public filings with certain summary partner revenue data across all of its lines of business in aggregate, the company does not publish specific data for HubPages.
    
    Thanks,
    Matt
    Team HubPages

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       Solarasposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       Just - WOW.
       
       Thanks for sharing this response.

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    2. 88

       Kenna McHughposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       For some reason, this makes me feel sad. Is it because HP is not transparent, or am I not getting it. Am I just lost in the mumbo-jumbo of legalese?

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          thooghunposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Obligatory "I'm not a lawyer", but the Terms seem to indicate that all submitted content, from our artwork to our text, is owned in its entirety by TAG.
          
          I distinctly seem to recall the Hubpages FAQ stating that we owned the rights to our work. It was the primary reason I settled here back in the day.
          
          I'm probably not getting it either.

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             Kenna McHughposted 11 months agoin reply to this

             What you read is correct. Based on your comment, I suspect the FAQ discounts the TAG. I am probably not getting it right either. That's why it's sad.

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             Sue Adamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

             Regarding copyright, the 2 documents supplied by Matt seem to contradict each other.
             
             HubPages FAQ
             "21. Who owns the content that I post on HubPages?
             The content is entirely yours. We simply provide the technology to support it."
             
             TAG (The Arena Group) Terms of Use
             "6. OWNERSHIP
             The Platform, including all content contained therein, including Partner Content and Submitted Content, text, graphics, images, photographs, audio, videos, illustrations, themes, objects, stories, concepts, artwork, and other content contained therein, are owned by TAG or our licensors and are protected under both United States and foreign laws. Except as explicitly stated in these Terms, all rights in and to the Platform are reserved by us or our licensors."
             
             So are HubPages authors "licensors"?

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                Solarasposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                I think the "licensors" are those that own the rights to entities such as Sports Illustrated, and give them the right to publish under their name. They have licensed the name to TAG under a lease.

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             2. 98

                chef-de-jourposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Thank you. Yes, it's all got a bit murky with TAG takeover. You'd need a lawyer to properly interpret the details of the Terms of Use but I take it the fundamental copyright still remains with the original author, the creator, and that cannot be taken away unless that author signs and agrees a transfer of work?

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                   eugbugposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                   It reminds me of "V". We'll just have to watch out for the skin splitting.

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                      TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      ++++

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                   Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                   That makes much sense. But a High Court Judges' interpretation can settle the challenge much better.                                       Nevertheless,, copyright of any original content belongs to authors. When plagiarists stole our articles, who file the  DMCA? The authors. Not TAG and Hubpages. Not even the laters on behave of the writters.                                        Critically, its seens that the owner of contents under the 2 terms provide by Matt are clearly in conflict, and not in tandem. So, we writers own our contents: text, photos, images, and videos.

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                      Kenna McHughposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      Yes!

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                         Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                         Kenna, you're welcome.

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                theraggededgeposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                I can see that the two aren't mutually exclusive. We do own the rights to our work. We can remove it whenever we want to.
                
                However, while the text, photos, etc are 'living' on the TAG platform, it's all theirs. It's not copyright, but ownership of the digital material.
                
                At least, that's how it appears to me.

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                   jansharesposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                   +1

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                   Kenna McHughposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                   Bev,
                   I reviewed the TAG and FAQ. I agree with your take on it.

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                   Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                   Bev, so when we remove the 'live' materia from they websites, it become entirely ours? While its still live we own the copyright. Don't you think so? Thanks.

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                      theraggededgeposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      It's always entirely yours. You always own the copyright.
                      
                      HubPages owns the displayed content, but they can't prevent you from removing it.

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                         Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                         Now, very clear to me. Thanks.

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                         thooghunposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                         Thanks for the clarification.

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                   TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                   My interpretation of this (because the wording is the same on several other sites) is that TAG can use and sell your article wherever they like, or they can change it, without telling you.
                   
                   I was informed of this by Quora when they 'kindly' contacted me to 'ask permission. I asked for payment. They said that, in terms of the agreement, the content belongs to them while on their site, and they can do with it what they like, and they don't have to pay me for it, and they have a policy never to pay writers.
                   
                   I closed my account.

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                      hclpdposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      I've never understood the allure of a site like Quora. Why invest time in witting for free when you can get paid for it?
                      
                      On top of that, Quora continues to invite and welcome drivel with each passing day. Yes, there is the promise of exposure, brand-building, and what have you, but you can accomplish all that and get paid for your work at the same time.

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                         DrMark1961posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                         I used to write on Quora, mainly providing short answers to people that had pets in need of help. I stopped many years ago though because they instituted a program to pay people to ask questions and the site become filled with fake questions. (They did not pay the writers, only the people that made up the fake questions.)
                         It lost its allure after that.

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                      Misbah786posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      It's funny that you were promoting Quora only a few months ago.
                      
                      https://hubpages.com/community/forum/35 … ay-writers
                      
                      Did you pay the $50 annual fee to Quora? You mentioned that they wanted to use your work without paying you, but you were still interested to pay the annual fee at that time but now you don’t like it anymore. I am wondering …. Why?
                      
                      https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4198434

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                         Kenna McHughposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                         Misbah, Thanks for taking the time to check and ask.

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                            Misbah786posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                            You are welcome, Kenna

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                         TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                         ??? How did I promote it? I explained my position - that I had a lot of views, and that I was going to pay the $50. However, as anyone knows who has been writing on the web for a long time, sites change, things change, and when you look at them a little deeper, they are not as pretty as they seemed at first glance.  As per my update below.
                         
                         https://medium.com/born-to-write/quora- … b35dddf500
                         
                         I joined Quora directly after it started. I was not very active on it. The few times I was active on it, invariably some of my posts went viral. Twice I deleted everything as a result of them doing something I didn't like. This last time, a post I wrote started going viral. After four days, they banned it. I published the full post on Medium. It wasn't 'hate' speech. I deleted my Quora account.
                         
                         I've now also stopped writing on Medium (take home pay for a year about $60K, includes donations and earnings).
                         
                         I have enough to carry me through the next year to write my books and new series, plus market them, hopefully to make a bucket of money.
                         
                         I'm a professional writer. I've been published for 60 years. In writing, one goes with the market. Newsbreak was hunkydory for the first few months and everybody made lots of money, and then they changed the rules.
                         
                         For myself, I'm a little tired of it. I've decided to write on Patreon, Ko-fi, Google Play, Smashwords, Draft2Digital, and as I now have a goodsized email list (thanks to Stripe, Patreon, and Medium), I have at least the beginnings of a base to announce my writings to when they are complete.
                         
                         When that is done, I'm going to write the three screenplays that I've wanted to do for years, and then approach the two producers who have been after me for years to write for them.
                         
                         I'm sorry if you think that I don't know what I'm talking about. The writing market constantly changes. One has to stay ahead.

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                            Misbah786posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                            Tess, I wish you the best of luck. I trust you are a good writer, and one must go with the flow 
                            
                            I've read your story on medium.
                            
                            But my question was (if you don't mind me asking again):
                            
                            Did you pay the $50 annual fee to Quora? You mentioned that they wanted to use your work without paying you, but you were still interested to pay the annual fee at that time but now you don’t like it anymore. I am wondering …. Why?

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                               TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                               No, I never paid the $50. I went to read the terms and conditions. Um. Changed my mind right there and then. I informed everybody on Medium as well.
                               
                               If you had read my link, you would have seen that.
                               
                               The time when they didn't want to pay for my story was some two years prior to that. Through the years, I've had more publications than I can count (even from print days) want to publish my work gratis. I just say no - even on Medium where I've been approached a couple of times for reprints (without pay).
                               
                               So I was prepared to overlook that. What changed my mind was the terms and conditions.
                               
                               I don't particularly post all my moves on Hubpages. I pop in every now and then, so, yup, I suppose, my story appears lobsided sometimes. My apologies.
                               
                               I guess this topic interests me because I warned about this a few years ago, but my lack of popularity being what it is, some don't want to give me any credibility. I accept that.
                               
                               However, I firmly believe that, in order to earn income as a writer, one constantly has to adapt to the market place. Success comes unexpectedly, and, from experience, it has a limited duration.

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                                  Misbah786posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                                  Tess, thank you for the detailed explanation. Yes, I think you should have also informed people on that forum discussion about your experience to avoid any future confusion. Anyways thanks for clarifying it now.
                                  
                                  Much Appreciated!

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                                     TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                                     ++

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             TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

             These are the same terms and conditions on Quora. They can sell your content elsewhere without notifying you or telling you.

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                Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Heavens forbidden that I land on a site as Quora.

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                   TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                   Well, you're on one now. This is what I've been saying here for a number of years - that this was going to happen. I know this because it happened to me before on another site - same owner. That's how he works.

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                      Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      Tessa? So you're saying or rather affirming that the owners of Hubpages are also the owners of Quora? I need a clear clarification. Thanks.

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                         TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                         No, I'm saying that I used to write for another content site (Associated Content)  in the early noughties. That site was bought by Yahoo, and the current owner of TAG was the CEO of Yahoo at the time He did then, exactly what he is doing now. This is why the moment that Paul announced that Hubpages was sold to him, I knew that earnings on Hubpages would dribble down.
                         
                         With regard to Quora, I'm saying that the terms and conditions for writing on Quora (and some other sites) are the same that are reflected in TAG. In other words, the owners of content writing sites are looking at what other sites are getting away with, and if they don't give two bits about writers, then they are implementing the same policies.
                         
                         You can continue to disbelieve me, but as you can see, there is now no firm committment to say what hubpages is actually paying writers.

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                            Ben716posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                            I am remember the Associated Content before it was bought by Yahoo, and became limited to U.S. writers only. Used to be before the limitation was put in place.
                            It's interesting to note the owner of TAG was once a CEO of Yahoo which explains well your point.

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                            Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                            Tessa, I got it now. Many thanks.

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       TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       Can't say I wasn't expecting this to happen at some point. Still it's sad.

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       Isivwe Muoboposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       This is sad. This means Hubpages could decide to pay writers 20% if they desire and you would have to accept that.
       
       Knowing what you stand to earn from views is always a motivation. It's like publishing books on Amazon KDP, knowing you get 70% every time your book sells.
       
       That kind of transparency is what motivates you to do more.

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          AliciaCposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          The point that you’ve raised in your second sentence worries me as well. The situation is certainly sad.

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          Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Sure!

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          TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Well, yes. That's probably why they never said anything.

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    Sue Adamsposted 11 months ago

    Thanks, Bev, that makes (some) sense to me. So maybe we don't need to worry about TAG "ownership" and copyright.
    
    The bigger, and the most disappointing issue is the enormous decline in earnings due to the disappearance of our previously secure 60% share of the revenue. Plus the fact that we were never informed of such a major change.
    
    

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       theraggededgeposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       Yep. It's demoralizing in the extreme. At least there are other places

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          Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

          'At least there are other places.'                                      You're infering websites like Medium? And blogs/blogspot?

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       Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

       The damages done to our intelligence and emotions, sub rosa are enormous.                                        It's an online world. Hubpages' knows well that it can get away easily with it. That's how  I see it.                                                  Any person left, right, and center is weicome to correct me. Thanks.

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    Jodahposted 11 months ago

    Now that we have, at last, received feedback from HubPages staff (Matt) on this issue, why do I feel even more ill at ease than before?

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       Kenna McHughposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       Why?

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       Misbah786posted 11 months agoin reply to this

       "You can be in the storm, but don’t let the storm get in you.” – Joel Osteen

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          Kenna McHughposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          1+

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       Brenda Arledgeposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       Me too

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    eugbugposted 11 months ago

    One of the goals was to "help elevate your earnings potential"
    
    Was that achieved? Without stats, can't differentiate between any increase in earnings and reduction in revenue due to other factors.
    
    https://hubpages.com/community/forum/34 … rms-of-use

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    Sue Adamsposted 11 months ago

    Here is an interesting observation.
    
    TAG Homepage on 3rd January 2022 via Wayback Machine
    
    
    TAG Homepage today 25th June 2022
    
    
    https://thearenagroup.net/

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       SerenityHaloposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       I wish someone who actually wanted HubPages to succeed would buy it.

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          eugbugposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          If it's unprofitable, they may be reluctant, but maybe that could be changed by someone with insight. However that could involve rationalisation and cutting our earnings further.

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             SerenityHaloposted 11 months agoin reply to this

             I'll hope for someone that actually cares for the writers. Whether TAG finally starts to switch gears (seems unlikely at this point) or a new owner who straightens things out.
             
             Media companies do change ownership often, which sometimes can be favorable and sometimes worse.

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                TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Why on earth would anyone care for writers?  There are 32 million bloggers in America. Sites like Upwork rip off writers by making them bid against each other.
                
                Writing, as a profession, is hugely oversubscribed.
                
                Some years ago, I read some figures that said that 84% of Americans wanted to be writers. The same publishing website said that only 5% of Americans were readers in that they read consistently - a book a week or a few hours each day.
                
                There actually aren't enough readers to read all this writing. This is why it is so badly paid.
                
                Nobody is ever going to care about writers. I recall in 1975 a family friend asking me what I wanted to do. I had already been published for 13 years then as I was first published when I was 10 or 11. I said I wanted to be a writer. She told me it was the worst possible career choice because writers were very badly paid.
                
                Nothing has changed.
                
                Sure there are those who make many millions. But not everybody is a James Patterson or an Elvis Presley or a Brad Pitt. For every one of those highly talented people who make the big bucks, there are millions of us who never get close.

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                   SerenityHaloposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                   On the one hand, you're right. You do have to be a little crazy to want to go into writing as a career.
                   
                   On the other hand, let's not pigeonhole writing as a whole. Albeit going into freelance writing or something like this will likely not turn into decent income for most people (as in a full-time salary, not millions) there are a lot of writing jobs that do pay well and are stable.
                   
                   I take it most people that are on HP are looking for passive income to back up their day job.
                   
                   One of the best writing tracks for stability and income is technical writing. Businesses will always be hiring for this, and you can make $70,000+ a year. It's not the hardest thing to switch to career-wise either. You can get a technical writing certificate, or if you have a decent portfolio, you might be able to land yourself one of these jobs. For those of you who love working from home, structure, and getting into fine details... technical writing could be the right fit.
                   
                   Is technical writing pretty dry? Yes! It's essentially the equivalent of accounting in writing form.
                   
                   There is also teaching, editing, journalism, television and filmmaking, and law. Writing is a great skill to have in your pocket to open doors. It can make going through higher education a lot easier. You have to write and read a lot for grad and doctorate programs, so if you already are an ace at writing... things will work more in your favor.
                   
                   You might not necessarily land a great publishing deal, but if you apply yourself right you can definitely earn a living.
                   
                   The worst thing a good writer can do is pigeonhole themselves. There are a lot of opportunities out there, and sometimes... you have to invent your own opportunities.
                   
                   Honestly, what separates the bad writers from the ones who can actually make a living through writing is simply effort. If you want to earn money, keep writing, learning, and applying yourself. If it's not the right fit for you, follow a passion where things seem to work in your favor.

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                      Kenna McHughposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      Very true!!

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                      Misbah786posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      +1

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                      TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      Um. That explains why only .03% of Americans are published writers. Let me give you some other statistics.
                      
                      84% of Americans, i.e. about 250 million Americans want to be writers or dream of publishing 'the book inside of them.
                      
                      Only 2% of Americans read and write to a very high level (and to be a writer, that is the level you need to reach). 54% of Americans are semilitertae. Most university students are very poor writers.
                      
                      According to the link below, there are 46,265 writers in the USA, and this includes technical writers, and there are more technical writers than any other type of writers.
                      
                      https://www.zippia.com/writer-jobs/demographics/
                      
                      While I have no issue with what you are saying, that there are, indeed, jobs for writers, what you're missing here is that the number of jobs for writers is extremely small compared to the number of people who want to be writers.
                      
                      There are 'writers' out there who have put their guts into writing for a decade. They have done everything they can, and they have failed miserably. The coaching/professor occupation for teaching people to be writers is a multi-million dollar industry. There is a vested interest in leading people to believe that they only have to try hard enough, and they will eventually make money.
                      
                      The following factors play an enormous role.
                      
                      1. The time you entered the market place or joined a particular site.
                      2. The success of the site as it sends you traffic.
                      3. Whether the editor likes you.
                      4. Whether you write on a topic that people gravitate towards.
                      5. That you have a comannd of language
                      6. Just plain luck
                      
                      If you doubt my statistics, I provide links in the piece below. I do not gain financially if you read it because you aren't a paying member of Medium. And if you are, I'd be lucky to make a penny.
                      
                      https://medium.com/tessas-web-log/rant- … e3a0399e3d
                      
                      I think what I find so frustrating is that people so desperately want to believe all the bs spouted by writing as a career that you can give them all the factual data, but they will still refuse to believe it. That's because it 'kills their dream.'

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                         SerenityHaloposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                         I'm not sure where we're getting 84% of people want to be writers, or what that means in relation to what kind of writers they want to be. The only thing that comes up when I Google that is your own work. I doubt 84% of people want to be the next Stephen King and actually believe they will be. I assume they also want to win the lottery and don't expect it will actually happen. (Sure, some people do, and they buy lottery tickets daily.)
                         
                         I don't think everyone is meant to be a writer nor will get very far if they pursue it as a profession. If you're not putting effort into it, then you're not going to see any results or any development. I think the wisest course is to follow and develop your top talents and nurture that into a career.
                         
                         I used to teach college-level writing courses, and for the most part, people who would come to class, do the work, and put in the effort would grow their skills and become better at writing. There were generally 1-2 students per semester who were lost causes... they simply wouldn't put in the effort, not turn in assignments, wouldn't show up to class, and if they did turn something in it would have no paragraphs or punctuation. Wild stuff, but those students were outliers. By in large, I found writing was suffering because students had bad teachers growing up. Once they were placed in a room with proper instruction, they'd grow.
                         
                         Technical writing isn't for everyone. Some people need creativity and absurdity. The thing is, there will always be technical writing jobs just as there will always be accounting jobs. If you know you have a good writing background, did well in writing in school, and the likes, then you can more than likely get the right materials together to apply for something like this. It's not the hardest thing in the world to get a technical writing certificate. You may need to apply to 100 places to finally get a job, but that's the reality for any job worth your time anymore. There are companies everywhere with technical writing jobs, and they come with benefits. New jobs are posted daily. Yes, you'll have better odds with a college degree.
                         
                         It may be a competitive industry where you have to apply against a large pool of people, but more than likely if you've been getting the right training, taking the right classes, and building a portfolio you will stand out from the crowd. Because yeah, a lot of people aren't putting in that kind of effort and are pipe-dreaming. Tess, you're right that people are pipe-dreaming, absolutely right... but some people here in the forums are making writing their career, or they're about to make that switch.
                         
                         ***You can take advantage of free library resources to learn how to become a better writer. Don't limit yourself to expensive college classes. And do look out for scammy master classes online.
                         
                         I'm writing all this to say that freelance writing, submitting to magazines, working on publications like HP aren't the only methods to use to make an income with writing. I think what you're writing about is more about online writing, which I know you know is only one avenue. I think people here on HP need to know there are other options. There are a lot of people here who are strong writers and aren't at the bottom of the barrel.

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                            TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                            It came from a site by Erma Bombeck that I read a long time ago. I've never forgotten the figure.
                            
                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erma_Bombeck
                            
                            According to the New York Times a few years ago, 81% of Americans think they have a book inside them, and they can be writers.
                            
                            https://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/28/opin … ain.html#:
                            
                            "I used to teach college-level writing courses,"
                            
                            Ah, yes, well, that would explain why you think people can be taught to write. I went to some of those courses in my mid-50s. Out of a class of 30, maybe 3 could put a sentence together. The professor, who had a degree in British Victorian literature did not know what a casket was. (In British English, it means a small jewel box). She also had no idea what an Oxford comma was.
                            
                            Of course, you can teach basic literary. However, to make writing as a career, one needs a helluve lot more than basic literary. And with the standard of literacy being what it is, I'm sure that everybody in your class improved their ability to write. That, however, has nothing to do with reaching a publishable standard as a writer.
                            
                            For the record, to become a technical writer, you need a degree in technical writing.according to Indeed. com, and I think they would know. Other sites also indicate that one needs a four year degree in technical writing.
                            
                            You also need a specific knowledge base - science, techology, medicine, etc. If you don't have that, it is highly unlikely that anyone will employ someone when others have that background.
                            
                            https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/ca … riter-do#:
                            
                            Have you ever heard of Joel Eisenberg? Google him. He is unlikely to be mistaken about all those 'writing courses.
                            
                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Eisenberg
                            
                            https://joeleisenberg.medium.com/
                            
                            Here's an article about all those writing courses that will make one a writer (Clue - they don't.)
                            
                            https://joeleisenberg.medium.com/medium … 7b05148b0c
                            
                            I am fully aware that there is a small percentage of people who have what it takes to make writing a career. So I'm not quite sure why you are telling me the same thing.
                            
                            It is, however, not possible for everybody.

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                               SerenityHaloposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                               My husband has a job in technical writing. He didn’t major in it. You’ll generally learn area specific knowledge on the job. He has jumped from medical, real estate, and finance while working in tech writing.
                               
                               I have read several papers from college students that have better quality than many of the supposed successful blogs. Some of the more average to above average students just need more age and experience. A lot of 18 year olds don’t really have anything to say yet since many of them have the same experiences and haven’t really taken agency on their adulthood yet.
                               
                               College student literacy isn’t where the concern should be. It’s those who are getting left behind and won’t graduate high school. Writing isn’t a sacred skill that only a select group of people can learn and develop, just the same with math. If a NASA scientist can go to an inner city school in California and teach teenagers—who didn’t know how to do fractions—all the basics and then prepare them for AP calculus, where they consistently got 5s (the highest score) on their tests, then I think it’s fair to say people can learn—and likely more than they realize.
                               
                               Many are not going to pursue learning for their own sake, and others just happened to be in a poor school system or social system. A lot of people may have a novel inside them because we’re all inherently connected to storytelling.

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                                  TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                                  I am hardly talking about literacy here.
                                  
                                  Again, there is one helluve difference between learning to write as in ABCs and grammar, etc. and writing for publication, i.e. New York Times, Cosmopolitican, movie scripts, etc. For that, you need a combination of skills, and very few people have that combination.
                                  
                                  I provided the evidence in one of the links I provided above.
                                  
                                  Yes, of course, if you already have a technical background, and you're a good writer, you can become a technical writer. However, without that specific background, one cannot just become a technical writer.
                                  
                                  One either needs a four year degree, or one needs a good knowledge in one of areas that use technical writing - science, tech, medicine, etc.
                                  
                                  You seem to be jumping from one thing to another. I'm not sure why. I don't care about literacy rates. My only point was that literacy in the USA was very poor as per the figures in one of my articles, and nobody can become a professional writer with poor literacy.
                                  
                                  Of course, there are some college students who write well. What has that got to do with the price of eggs? How does that imply that because a few do that the majoirty don't?
                                  
                                  I'm sorry, but I don't have time for this.
                                  
                                  Just for the record, i used to be headhunter in the tech field. Employers do not employ technical writers without a very definite background.
                                  
                                  Cheers.

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                         SerenityHaloposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                         Also, I enjoy your comments and contributions. There are many valid and wonderful things you have to offer here. I have a tendency to overwrite.

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                            TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                            Thank you. Appreciate a positive comment for a change. Very, very much appreciated.

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                      tsmogposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      Thanks for the contribution. As an old guy living in these times writing definitely provides opportunity such as the tehnical avenue. I may fit that bill and will look into it! I seek only supplemental income, working fom home, my hours, honest work, and fair pay.

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                      Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      Sound advice that makes much sense. You're welcome.

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             TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

             In case you haven't noticed, every company that opens a content writing site does so for profit. The figure that I've found most revealing is that, consistently, on every site I've been on, it's the top 5% who earn some income. The amount varies.
             
             Why would that be?
             
             It would be because the sites are designed to keep labour low, just as corporations and business, in general, does not pay workers as much as they could. That's because, if they did, then there would be less profit for the shareholders and owners.

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                jansharesposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Thanks for the useful info, Tess. I appreciate the reality check about writing not being a lucrative career for most writers.

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                   TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                   It isn't. Even if one is an excellent writer, there is still a degree of luck involved.

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    Jodahposted 11 months ago

    Good points, Misbah. I'd like to know also.

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       Misbah786posted 11 months agoin reply to this

       Thank you, John

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    Miebakagh57posted 11 months ago

    What is Matt? What did he said? Where? In this ever trending forum? Did you talk with him on the phone, or email him?                                           Seriously and critically, I've to scroll twice 7 of 7 pages to get to what Matt said, and I found none. It seems to me that he is yet to make his presence felt here. Good day everyone.

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       TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       Sue Adams posted a copy of the email Matt sent her. Matt works for Hubpages.
       
       

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          Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Tessa? Thanks. I know  Matt, is a staff on hubpages. But if I could not see and read what he post, I've got to ask, right? Thanks again for the input.

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    Solarasposted 11 months ago

    My HP payment via Paypal informs me that I have received funds from The Arena Platform, Inc. Is that new? Have they done away with TAG and now it's TAP?

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       eugbugposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       I noticed that too. It's been the Arena Platform since the end of February payment (which was delayed to the start of March)

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       TessSchlesingerposted 11 months agoin reply to this

       Beware when people start changing names too much. My advice would be to find supplementary sources of income if you are only dependent on this. This goes for whichwever platform one is writing on.

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          Miebakagh57posted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Thank you, Tessa. Thank you.

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30. 77

    Miebakagh57posted 11 months ago

    We're being put into a much confused state then ever.

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