Many formerly active hubbers have stopped or greatly reduced their posting in these forums for a variety of reasons.
Please say a few words of appreciation to the departed or departing who have made you smile, or helped you out with their advice and experience here at Hub Pages.
I'll start off by thanking Mark Knowles and Misha.
These guys were two of the first people I encountered at Hub Pages, and I have enjoyed a lot of discussions, repartee, and sometimes arguments with them.
All the best Mark and Misha.
Personally I'm disappointed they gave up on HubPages so meekly. If they're banned, it's understandable they're not here - but in their shoes, if I was unhappy about the way Hubbers have been treated, I'd be here on these forums making a noise and trying to get things changed, whether I thought it was hopeless or not - just on principle.
I don't believe anyone gave up meekly. Noise was made and either ignored or, from the available evidence, dealt with in a punitive manner. Many have chosen not to fight a losing battle and, instead, forge new friendships and pursue new opportunities. I'd say it's a natural response for those who relied upon the income generated here.
As far as "moaning", I don't see it. Yes, some are voicing their disbelief that a once great platform would go so far out of their way to alienate their writers, but it has also served as the impetus for some of us to strike out on our own and not rely on what has become an unstable source of income at best.
I second that rmr
Too right! (That last part about the striking out on one's own applies to me, certainly).
To me it almost feels as though the "alienation" part has a bit of an agenda behind it (that of either silencing or getting rid of the HP members who know anything about SEO or affiliate marketing) - although I can't for the life of me see what good such an agenda would do to HubPages' bottom line, so I'm still left scratching my head in complete bafflement.
Hitting the "agree" button repeatedly.
Your right Eric it will not be the same now some of the big names have gone. Mark and Misha were great hubbers, and added great presence to the forums, now Mark has gone who is going to bash the religious forums on a daily basis.(lol) Who knew more than Misha about SEO???
I also miss Blondespoet she made me laugh on a daily basis, we all have our own favorites, its sad they they have left, I know Mark and he told me he didn't want to leave but was forced into a situation needing to alter all his accounts which was basically just too much work. Let's hope the work HP's is doing really does have a positive effect on Google and they may come back. Who would bet against them coming back and saying they made a $1 million while they were away, and it was all part of their master plan.
Good writers who are also good Internet marketers/presences stayed with HubPages for as long as HP returned something on their investments of time, energy, and money. It's smart to leave when the ROI is bleak or worse.
I don't miss these folks on HP, because they, and their good advice, are to be found elsewhere on the net. You just have to look for them, and then follow as you choose.
But it is a big loss to HP and the community they fostered from the start that these fine folks are gone or going.
I think they added valuable content to this website. At the same time since the "Panda update" most all who had high volume traffic here have lost out. Now we get warnings on our pages that, atleast in my case have nothing to do with what the article is about. I got a FOREX warning on a shopping outlet article and I have had many other instances of warnings recently that are not even close to the content of my pages.
I am all about cleaning up the site and getting rid of spam content, but if Hubpages truly wants to make this work I would say they need to work from within and improve their quality control. Unpublishing hubs for the wrong reasons because of a sloppy system does not help anyone.
I have started a new blog in the past month and with 16 posts I already outrank similar hubpages with decent content. This should not happen if they want 40% of revenue.
your new blog - does it get more traffic and income?
It doesnt recieve quite as much traffic as my hub yet, but the adsense earnings so far are almost identical. The hub I am speaking of makes around $15.00 per month in adsense and the new blog was at $11.00 in the first 3 weeks of publish. Of Course 16 posts help but I do see a positive trend. The visitors I am getting are only from Yahoo and Bing at the moment so thats not a bad start.
I will continue to clean up and repair my hubs here in the hope of a turnaround. I like the Hubpages platform and would love to continue to use it.
I am sad to see many hubbers I enjoy reading and learning from gone or reduced writing and coming in forums. I shall miss them here but hope to see and learn from them on internet still.
Fair winds and following seas - you will be missed. I learned a lot from both of you.
I wish we could go back to the Hubland, in times of yore. Back to when these wonderful people were always about and "good" writing was as abundant as hub-rules are now.
Damn listing them like that makes me sad.
I agree and don't want to list the names of all the people that helped me in the last three years.
I also would like to know what happened to PearlDiver that stopped him in mid sentence from advising us all who, among our hubber community, was stealing our content lock stock and barrel.
I hope eventually a lot of these folks come back. I miss their wit, their input and re.ading what they have to say
Once Hubpages recovers if ever, then I'll be back, right now I'm chasing new avenues of income to make up for the adsense income stream lost here, it's not really productive to sit around doing nothing but thinking a few months ago with all this Panda bear stuff.
Busy writing ebooks and other stuff....the time away is recharging batteries I thought had died long ago.....
That's fair enough, Wayne. I'm sure a fair number of experienced Hubbers are doing exactly the same thing - and I should be too! What I don't see the point of is moaning about HP elsewhere - if you're going to spend time complaining, surely it's best to to it where it might do some good?
HP have took things in hand are supposedly doing what they think is best so I don't think we can change that at all, sure we can complain and explain things in the forums, but does it really do any good, I'm sure one time it used to!
It's just an annoying waiting game we must do to wait out and see if things will recover here...time will tell!
I know what you mean. I can understand the HP team are too busy to spend much time on the forums, but I think it's a pity they're ignoring them. The only person who's here regularly is Jason, and occasionally Simone, and it seems they've both been told to stonewall any suggestions or concerns and keep repeating the line, "this is for your own good".
My income dropped over $500 per month here across all programs just after the panda. I didn't leave the community but I'm not publishing any more hubs until HP is done with all of their rush to change things. But since I have been spending fewer hours here, I've been developing other sites I own and have doubled the income I lost here.
I still enjoy interacting with the hubbers here but as anyone who really earns a liveable income online can tell you that spending too much time here hoping for a recovery is counter productive.
I'm honestly hoping that HP does recover but I'm not going to sit around and wait a year or more churning out conntent for pennies when I can do the same on my own sites for dollars.
I know you're right, Richard. My point was that for those who make a living online, creating alternative income streams is a priority - but if they're going to leave the HP forums, only to waste time bitching and moaning on another forum, then that truly is unproductive. At least if they spent the time whinging here, there's an outside chance it might make a difference.
I hate to point out the obvious, Marisa, but if someone has truly left HP, why would they care what makes a difference or not, never mind come back here to post on the forums?
I'm a bit surprised, I must say. I've known you for some time and you always come off as very intelligent, level headed and even handed. I have never seen you speak negatively about anyone or anything unless there was very good reason for doing so. Slinging mud at a number of people just because you think they may not be doing things "your way" seems very out of character.
What if they are not bitching and moaning, and just telling the truth what happened to them over here, without the fear of getting silenced, or getting banned from the forums (or their posts removed without any explanation) , can we blame them?
Lisa, I don't have any quarrel with those who've made up their mind to leave HubPages, and are getting on with other projects. Good on them. I'm just saying, if they have anything negative to say about HP, what's the point of saying it on other forums where it can't help anyone?
Remember the HubPages Sucks incident? Then, we had very few good things to say about people who dripped vitriol about HP on other forums. Now, you're saying that's OK?
Marisa, I don't remember the HubPages Sucks incident. Sorry. Either I wasn't involved in the forum at the time or it didn't make an impression. Not sure which.
But realize that your principles are not necessarily mine. I don't need every word that comes out of my mouth to mean something or to be out there for the better good. Sometimes, I just need to vent. It's kind of like a Band-aid. It doesn't mean I wish ill will on anyone -- it's just talking without an agenda. You should try it sometime. It's quite cathartic.
I wasn't even really impacted by HP's changes, but the attitude the HP team has displayed post-Panda really disgusts me. I've been at the butt end of Jason's passive-aggressive stance, exchanged emails with HP's management team about the way they are responding to Hubbers's posts and finally decided there is no point and no value I could add to the discussion here. I'm not really fond of banging my head against a brick wall or injecting dissent into wide-eyed noobs. If you are, so be it. Just not my cup of tea.
I guess I'm just weird. I was the same with my divorce - yes, I was upset when my husband ran off with another woman, and sure I vented - by crying and screaming and throwing things - but I didn't start exaggerating his bad points and declare he'd never been any good. I still valued what we'd had.
Which I know is unusual, because most of my divorced friends decided their ex was Satan the minute he walked out. I don't see how that attitude would make me feel better, and I don't like seeing people indulge in name-calling and conspiracy theories, it really upsets me.
I have seen you here on the forums, and a few of the other regulars too - and I don't recall you making any extreme remarks anywhere. It's disappointing to hear you haven't had any satisfactory response to your emails - that does discourage me.
I've also been on the "butt end" of Jason's responses and I'm very saddened that he's virtually the only member of the HubPages team on the forums these days - I can't decide whether he's deliberately being obstructive, or doesn't want to admit he doesn't know the answers to questions, or whether HP management have told him to stonewall.
waynet, I hope you come back to share your ebooks when you get them all completed. I have enjoyed your work abundantly. Thanks for your help with the little motivational things here and there. I will miss you.
People can write many places, if someone is trying to make money mostly, I can understand why they left or greatly reduced writing. The Google monopoly has squelched much revenue and Then Google has the Nerve lately to disable AdSense accounts for not making enough. Go figure.
I've heard other grumble about the possibility of losing their Google Adsense accounts because they weren't making enough money. For many of us it took months to make our first $100. I don't think I'd worry about it until it started taking me over a year to earn $100 again.
HP is just another writing site, a drop in the bucket in the sea we call the net. You could spend your whole life crying about every site that changes rules or how they do things.
The smart ones just get going and get doing something else. Why does anyone take anything here personally? HP is a money making business, that's it, just like all the other thousands out there.
If you join a site and it goes downhill or changes to a point you don't like, you leave and go on to the next. It's their site, they can do whatever they want.
Same as you can. Don't waste your time arguing with them or crying to them. If you don't think it's worth your while to be here, get going and do something more productive, like the ones who have left.
If you think it's worth staying here, do that and keep doing what you want. This is one site in a big world out there, don't take any site or forum on the net too close to heart. It's all about money, simple as that.
We must think alike here in Florida. It's like anything else in life, you keep moving in the direction you need to go.
Why waste time saying goodbye to people who are not here? Many think this is a great place to hang and socialize, and it is for people who are into writing and making money and even learning the ropes on the internet. For those who are serious about online busines, hanging out in this forum is not soemthing they will waste their time with if they know time is money. Sitting around waiting for responses to posts and asking why this isn't working wont help you get ahead and peopele on the move certainly understand that.
Eric the Culled is missing Mark the Rude and Misha the Impaler of the English language.
Is there a dry eye in the house?
Easy for you to look so dimly on others, I see. It certainly is telling about you, and nothing of Eric, Mark and Misha. I'm not so sure that you are any less rude than Mark in reality, except for perhaps in your own mind. I see plenty of evidence of that, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.
Mark took pot shots at everyone, not just the religious and his insights were usually deadly accurate. It's really tough to have to examine your crap, isn't it?! How difficult it must be for you to have to avoid yourself in the mirror every morning to avoid deeper self evaluation.
Misha the Impaler. That's funny. I'm sure he would even laugh at that. However, I dare you to attempt what he's done on any Russian website with substance.
Careful, Will. Your true colors are showing again.
Well, that was harsh! Mark and Misha have always been very helpful to me. And as for Mark's being rude, he's never been rude to me. We've had some spirited debates about religion, but he's always been respectful.
Mark is still around,least it sure sounds like Mark
Yes, Mark is still a member. He just isn't in the forums.
That's on a need to know basis and you have no need to know.
I don't think he is banned Eagle, but from what I know, he isn't here posting under any name.
That would be assumption on your part. Not that I would be surprised.
Ah Will, Will, Will.
Good to see you here in this thread, although I'm not quite sure why.
As there's probably nobody who has made you smile, or would have been able to help you with anything.
I was just banned from Hub Pages forums, for the first time ever.
I wonder if you could spare a tiny fraction of your intellectual capacity to give me your opinion about why I was banned.
After all, you refer to me as being "culled", so I suppose that you have some kind of view into the inner workings of the HubPages system.
Here are the options I can see.
I would dearly love your insight into which of these statements would offend someone to the extent that they would have reported me and asked that I be banned. I need to know so that I won't make the same dreadful mistake again!
1. I used the word "bloody"
2. I used the word "drongo"
3. I might have broadly implied that trying to educate some people about SEO was akin to trying to teach a pig to sing.
If you took this to mean I was referring to yourself, and this offended you, I apologise sincerely. That was not my intention at all.
After all, I defended you the other day.
One of my colleagues said that you were not fit to eat with the pigs.
But I stuck up for you, and said that you were!
Your new friend,
I must have missed something while I was asleep. What's happening here Where have all the flowers gone?
Long time no see. Hope all is going well with you.
Where have all the flowers gone?
As the pic shows, they're blowin' in the wind. :-)
Just a bit of a Hurricane that blew away the nasty tumbleweeds from HP :-)
I disagree, That was no hurricane it was the ill wind of change for changes sake, and it hasn't worked.
The tumbleweeds are still here, the cheap crappy reviews are still flooding in while many of the top writers have gone as much from disappointment as protest and I am of a mind to follow them.
Hubpage management have done themselves little or no favours and appear to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater, presumably they are still making money out of those who remain, good luck to them. However I hope their high handed arrogance costs them dear and all genuine people here will treat them with the same discourteous lack of respect they have shown us by withdrawing their support together with their writing skills that give Hubpages its Bread and Butter.
Actually there is a song by Bonnie Tyler - I need a hero! one of the songs in the movie Shrek - Where have all the good men gone?
First lines are :
I need a hero
Where have all the good men gone
and where are all the gods?
Where's the streetwise Hercules to fight the rising odds?
Isn't there a white knight upon a fiery steed?
Late at night I toss
and I turn
and I dream of what I need.
I need a hero. I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the night.
He's gotta be strong
and he's gotta be fast
And he's gonna be good in SEO!!!
Don't forget we still have some great writers who are not seen or heard about in forums but continue to write
Ken R Abel and HC Porter are two I can think of
I haven't been able to check in as often, and I'm fairly new to the site compared to so many here, but it does make me sad to know that some of these people who were so vocal here are gone now. I understand their reasoning, but it doesn't make it any less sad.
I've just realised that something I said could possibly interpreted as a personal attack.
Don't worry contacting HP.
I'll save you the trouble, and go and report myself!
Thought you' like to know Eric, I got done for the word drongo when one of the religiously insane reported it.
Evidently it is abuse in "American"
Well, I can surely say it's not as lively as it was a year or so ago. It got pretty wild for a while, all the flirting & joking going on. The drama....whoa baby! I'd say Blondpoet added a lot to the forums with her witty replies.
And then there was Tantrum......
What more can I say?
It is sad to see some of the old-timers leave....but change is good!! And maybe they will come back one day...
And I'm still here...lol!!!
Hate to say it but on the other forums we have had some fairly useful technical conversations, more indepth than I have ever had on hubpages forums lol!
Absolutely, if you are discussing SEO, webmastering, affiliate marketing, etc then DigitalPoint, WarriorForum, Webmasterworld, r10, and sitepoint are much better forums for that. HP is only good for generalized conversations. The forums mentioned above are good at running off the hacks that know little to nothing about what they are hustling.
It will be sad to see such well known names leave. I wish them the best of luck in their future adventures.
The forums mentioned above are good at running off the hacks that know little to nothing about what they are hustling.
Cant agree - at least about Wf and Dp , they both have plenty of hacks that only sound like what they know what they are doing. And thousands of gibberish help requests too, Reselling, rehashed content and methodology over and over again is about all Wf is good for, thats pretty much the Warrior Way. Noob farms, really. Lots of intelligent experts also of course - but not sure how you find them very quickly.
WebMWorld and Sitepoint are great resources though.
Hmmm...can't help but think those sites are a little like HP. High in content, very mixed in quality and usefulness.
Just like any popular forum there are the experts and those seeking the experts. If you spend enough time on any forum you will be able to pick out the helpful against then not so helpful. It's true even here at HP. We spend a lot of time here building on our reputation, offering advice, sharing tips and tricks (at least we use to) and our activity built trust. The same thing happens on WF and DP but if you pop in once in a great moon then how do you know who to trust?
I stay active on all of those forums, not so much on r10.net, because I want to stay on top of the latest trends and keep my online "empire" growing and not become stagent.
As for the "old guard" leaving HP or becoming less active to recoup some losses, how can anyone blame them? We do this mostly for 2 reasons, first to make money, second to have fun. Panda screwed us on the first, and you already know who is screwing us on the second.
oh they are not gone, as soon as they think they can make money or figure out a good way to do it they will be back in full force.
believe me they are watching hp closely and as soon as they see what they want to see as far as ranking high in google, they will be back.
I agree Marissa, say it here instead of bad talking outside of here. But if you really want to make a difference here, and try to change things, the only way to do is to make it financially beneficial to the HP staff. They started this site to make money. If you want change, you have to hurt their pocketbook. Taking money making articles off of this site is a good start.
I don't know if that's true.
For one thing, the HP team are so busy, they probably won't even notice.
For another, it's cutting off your nose to spite your face. For those of us who want to "make a difference", it's because we valued what HubPages gave us in the past, and we'd like to see the site return to success. If everyone takes their good Hubs away, we ensure it will fail.
Maybe it will fail Marissa if people start taking the money making hubs away. Of course, if this place changes to a totally different site, is it worth saving? Or more importantly for me, is it a place I want to share my writing. I don't make that much money personally from this, so my motive here is the fact that this site has changed, the staff is treating writers, including myself, horribly and it really is not fun anymore. But the only way to change anything is to make it a financial decison. Every decision HP has made, money is the given reason. Depends on what you value I guess.
I valued the community atmoshere and that is leaving along with those great writers. I miss Englishgirl personally, but Misha and others were of great value.
Agree with you totally, and yes, people are 'taking the money making hubs away', not to 'cut off their noses to spite their faces', but because they can make more from these articles on other sites. We are getting the 'community atmosphere' elsewhere, and we are seeing our income coming back from Adsense on these sites. I miss the 'old days' too, when Hubpages was so much fun and a great community. I just can't see this coming back
The only reason most of the Hubbers who were formerly active here still visit, is either because they want to offer support and other options to those who start to realise how frustrated they are becoming here, they want to check in on their friends to support them if they too become annoyed with their treatment, or they visit in order to remove their own Hubs elsewhere.
I very much doubt these often 'former' Hubbers, are watching to see if Hubpages suddenly regains a high placing in Google so they can return and try to make money here. They have already found sites where they can do this now without the wait!
..and that's an entirely valid reason for removing Hubs. I was replying to someone who suggested you should remove your best Hubs to "get back" at HP, and I don't see that as a good reason.
It may not appear to be a good reason on the surface, but if HP can treat their writers the way they have been and still make money from their work, they have no reason to change their view. Removing high performing hubs, especially if they can do as well or better elsewhere, sends a clear message that is likely to be heard.
I've been watching the forum here for the last few weeks, and I've seen quite a few people raise concerns that were either rudely shot down or completely disregarded. It's a noble goal to try to affect positive change, but lately, attempting it in these forums is akin to:
i miss Ralwus' writing..Charlie...he needs a place to write - hopefully he comes back!
For the record, I meant Londongirl. One of the best writers ever. James Watkins too, although not sure if he is gone or just writing his book. Great writer though
In the spirit of the original post,
Im not quite sure who I miss, It seems those who were active in the forums and were also free and open with experience, motivating words and online business advice actually walked the walk they talked about, and as a result are very easily found all over the net, creating sites, sharing experience in what basically seems to just be business as usual. Its a shame that one has to travel about in order to "see" so many of them but then again thats a needed boost.
In short, Its actually fun to be able to see so much growth come out of what seemed to be such a dire situation.
These forums have been choked by political and religious discussions for quite awhile, now with some of the more prolific characters banned, booted and/or building elsewhere out of protest or necessity - I suspect the whole atmosphere will irrevocably change, hopefully some fun personalities can overshadow the barrage of political and religious tripe to at least keep the forums a fun place for the occasional banter or discussion.
Im not "gone" but the whole experience has left a bitter taste in my mouth, Ive had to abandon a site that I was really excited about that was dedicated to hubpages and I cant in good conscience do any cheerleading in the help or knowledge forums because Im not sure anything I know about this place is still or ever was true.
As one of those terrible folks who thinks marketing and seo have very important roles in online development I cant yet see a silver lining in the loss of what I would have consider anchor stores in this online mall.
I am critical of one term in this thread:
"For those of us who want to "make a difference", it's because we valued what HubPages gave us in the past"
Thats probably the new "Great Divide" - I feel that the writers are the lifeblood of the site and community, the writers gave 40% of their earning opportunities in exchange for ease of publishing. When push came to shove - its those that invested the most time into the site that were most hurt and zero recognition for what they :"gave" was visible here in the forums or in official policy and implementation . The community of 200,000+ authors gave us hubpages - without them its just a idea.
I understand loyalty, value it even, but I tend to have populist leanings and my loyalty lies with the people I chatted with and read and commented with. The 1's and 0's of the platform dont do much for me .. I can replicate the 1's and 0's the people are irreplaceable. (Im happy you can still be found Marisa! .. its 5am here, good to have some friends in other time zones!)
Currently, I dont think this platform is worth even a 10% share of my potential revenue and rather than cutting out income sources it should be cutting costs and increasing impression share to its existing writers. Thats how my mind works at least.
If the site still has an active community in a few months, I will hopefully still be able to find a limited spot in it as I have enjoyed it here over the past 2 years but for now my focus has to be in projects that work and people I can believe in.
I know Im not hard to find and hopefully every person on HP who has income goals that rely on writing and site development is equally easy to access via their sites and social presence.
So my tribute to the Hubbers who have gone can hopefully just be said directly to them at whatever place our paths next cross.
I agree, Sunforged, and maybe that word 'gave' is inaccurate. I was never under any illusion that HubPages management created HP out of the goodness of their hearts - but for my first three years here, they were fair, inclusive and responsive. I'm still struggling to believe they could all have undergone such a personality change, and cling to the idea that if we protest loudly enough, they might ultimately listen. But it's a lost cause, because there are only two or three of us here still shouting - which allows Jason to dismiss every complaint with "that issue only affects a small number of Hubbers".
To all those who have gone, those still here yet truly not, BEST WISHES, This is a great big world filled with much opportunity. If something isn't working for you have enough faith in yourself to know when it's time to move on and evolve
To All Those I say, Best Wishes and Every Success
Well said, Sunforged.
Was an actual list of "departed" ever made?
That may make a great hub! ..not calling dibs...
by Lisa Vollrath 8 years ago
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