I’ve decided to leave Hubpages for the foreseeable future at least. I’ve already taken down quite a few hubs but I’ll be leaving the remaining 85 on this account unless I find a good reason to move them.
Why am I leaving? I believe that the Hubpages staff has become far too reactive instead of proactive. They’ve been happy to go with the flow when it’s all good but when something bad happens they’re too busy making small and inconsequential changes and ignoring advice and suggestions from people with far more experience. There has been no mention of the Google +1 button, which some SEO experts are already reporting has helped their position in the SERPs, despite suggestions of “secret talks” between Hubpages and Google.
They’ve repeatedly rolled out changes which, when applied to hubbers with hundreds or thousands of hubs, can waste hours when those hubbers could be writing more content. After four or five rounds of this, many of the top earners left the site, most moving at least a good part of their content. Banning duplicate content was a good move, but a lot of the other new rules did little but get rid of high quality hubs, written by the very authors who could have brought the site out of the Panda slap.
There have been suggestions that Hubpages is driving away writers from the ‘old system’ in favour of getting a new class of writer and turning the site into more of a social networking site. I don’t know if this is true but they’ve certainly done a good job of driving away the top writers, some of whom were earning several thousand a month and getting more than 15,000 views per day.
Once upon a time I’d recommend that people follow information from 10-15 particular hubbers – those hubbers are all inactive now or in the process of leaving.
I lost quite a bit from Panda – unfortunately I was comfortable at Hubpages so I had most of my content there. I quit my job just after Panda to work at home full time and now I’m just working to get my earnings back where they were.
I lost at least 40-50% of my earnings and I’m not the only one. In 2010 Hubpages barely broke even as a company. With their own losses probably in a similar category to ours, I wonder how long they can last without a drastic change? For a company with 26 employees (recently down from 28), thousands of dollars a month in server costs and overheads including a downtown SF office, they’re probably as badly off as many of the writers they alienated. I guess the two options are either that they are not as transparent as they claim in how they make their profits, or they are in a ship with quite a few holes and very few buckets. I personally think the latter because I’ve personally checked my affiliate share, as have others.
For the conspiracy theorists, I requested the removal of my elite badge.
For anyone who wants to contacts me, I’m in dozens of places on the ‘net if you need to find me.
Excellent strategy. They may as well earn money, even if it's at a reduced rate, unless and until you find an alternative. I'm taking exactly the same approach - not writing any new Hubs, but leaving my existing ones here.
By the way, Lissie has said that with a minor backlinking campaign, she's got most of her Hubs back up in the SERPS - so it's worth thinking about.
I think you've got to put this in perspective. HubPages reached breakeven point in 2010, long before a lot of other similar sites which started around the same time. So even though we may think breaking even isn't a big deal, many people saw it as a big success story. Helium, for instance - which had a lot less traffic even before Panda - is down the tubes for a cool $17 million in debt, and it hasn't folded yet. And I wonder how Yahoo feels about its return on investment now, having spent $90m on Associated Content? So I'm not pessimistic about HP's chances of survival, I think it's better than most.
But the fact they reached breakeven point in 2010 means they're now below breakeven point. That was the point I was trying to make.
Squidoo hit profitability 3 years ago.
Articles Base took $500k a month, at 80% profit. That is $6m annual revenues. If they were to give 60% of revenues to authors, that would leave $3.6m. If their costs are 20%, that is $1.2m. That leaves $2.4m in profit. They were founded in 2005, a year before Hubpages. So they made $4.8m profit, would have made $2.4m profit with revenue share, slight strawman but that goes to show that just about reaching breakeven on $10m revenues is not too great!
But I don't want to argue pedantics - the Google slap didn't worry me. It's what happened after that I didn't like.
Yes, I got that - I was just making the point that others never made it to break-even, even before Panda.
You sound like you've done your research! I didn't know Squidoo hit profitability so long ago - though of course, their huge Google slap two years ago would have put a big dent in their profitability for a while, I've no doubt. I know Squidoo, like HP, didn't raise venture capital - any idea whether Articlesbase did?
thanks for all your help WryLilt. Hope you can manage to recover what you were earning before. It's sad that things have gone downhill so much.
I get/got annoyed with the many changes here too. The lucky part for me is that I do not write for money, I had no expectations when I joined here therefore, I have no expectations regarding this web-site when going forward.
All the best in your quest!
Good decision WryLilt!
"There have been suggestions that Hubpages is driving away writers from the ‘old system’ in favour of getting a new class of writer and turning the site into more of a social networking site."
Absolutely correct! That's why the new signed-in homepage, just launched, looks like Twitter!
HubPages in its original form is already dead!
I wish I could say that I was surprised! All the good writers like Wry are leaving and we're left with... :-(
I left HP almost 10 days ago... but that does in no way mean I will stop forum posting when I get time!
ryan does that, mark does that, pcunix does that... so I will occasionally do that, don't be surprised!
And to you PaulGoodman67... nah... people like you with so nasty cultural background should be best ignored!
"nasty cultural background"!?! Bizarre!
So when can we expect your next peculiar and self-contradictory forum thread? Let me know in advance I will go out for the day! ;-)
I'm sorry, but I can't help but see a little humor in some of the "leaving thing" (and I'm not talking about Wry's thread here). Who leaves and stays is his own business, but it's kind of funny that people "leave" and yet still have Hubs and/or still pop back on the forums - I don't see the "leaving" in that. I pretty much call that "staying".
the type of "flounce" used by a departing hubber has been discussed several times on these forums, Lisa. When I got banned from Helium I never had a chance to practice my flounce. Instead I caused, and am still causing the site grief.
So you see, a flounce is very important to a person who feels they've been wronged. I'll bet you could exhibit one heck of a flounce if you ever got the chance.
hey you, I understand and am trying so hard to make my hubs like tiny articles until my site is up. I almost left last month after on my own initiative spent 6 thousand to go to HPHQ as they knew thee four days i waited there after presenting them with a 10 page revenue increase proposal from the Canadian market that I could manage. I finally on the 4th day said to come in and hand hard copy of proposal to assistant who just wanted me out. I was introduced to no one, no tour, and they believe i think i wanted money when proposal clearly stated no money for a month then commission. Both Paul's were talking behind me in a glass boardroom I waved and was ignored.
Conclusion; I had constant panic attacks because of my agoraphobia, hotels were 600 a night airfare food etc to sit in a hotel to be treated like a piece of unimportant money seeking hubber when no one read my proposal which I know for sure because of correspondence.
The Team is not the Team I perceived here
I gave it my best shot, they unaware of a huge advertising client loss and just a nobody
Today I am most fine with that.
Wylit sorry your leaving but I feel you what or how is our community defined today, I can't even figure it out.
Sorry Kim! I'll bet they freak out every time a suspected hubber shows up at the door.
I take it they didn't offer you a coffee mug either?
We live, we learn. Sorry you had such a bad experience.
oh KL....not even a 'hello!...nice to meet you in person?' WTF is that all about!? what kinda biz is that.....
Good luck and best wishes Wrylilt.
You will be missed a lot by those who enjoy someone who talks straight and carries a sense of humour well.
I can see your points clearly and your reasoning seems sound to me.
I feel confident you will get back to a decent income, I'm just sad to see you leave.
I can fully appreciate your concerns. Although I never joined Hubpages with the intent of making money on any hubs I published as most of my writes are prose and poetry. However I fully understand business and am a retired successful business owner who understand sales and marketing.
The bottom line is always the most important to share holders and CEO's it's very sad to see the direction Hub pages is taking. I to have seen so many talented writers disappear from the Hubs, many who thrived with a decent return on their brilliant writing submissions.I certainly hope HP can recover and make this site again attractive to serious, talented, brilliant writers like yourself.
I am a simple humble poet of words and my profit is derived from the many receptive followers I have accumulated over my tenure here. Good luck with your new adventures, I know you are a success and always will be and I thank you for publishing this hub as a wake up call to the Hub Team, if they are listening, I hope they are able to continue to grow this site. I truly believe they would have been better off leaving it as a WRITERS site and not turning it into a Social Media site as it is appearing now.
That's a pity, Wry, you are a level-headed and trusted voice on the forums and you will be sadly missed. I understand your reasons, however. I am staying here for now, but focusing on my other websites in the hope that things will improve at HP. I have learnt a lot from hubbers such as yourself, so thanks and best wishes for the future!
Dammit! Was that the last lifeboat Wry left on? And these life preservers are the cheap blow up kind too! It seems the crew left on the first boat with Gilligan and the skipper.
Everyone together now-"Nearer my God to thee..........."
Good Luck, Wry Lit! My feet are getting wet too!
We'll miss you Wry - I have scaled down my time significantly as well. Since Panda, things have gone from bad to worse.
I keep crossing my fingers that the results of the "spring cleaning" will show.
So far, my views and earnings continue to decline. There has to be a bottom somewhere...right?
In addition, I miss the community - it has definitely deteriorated a LOT in the past several months.
Good luck and I hope you will come back if we see a resurgence with Hubpages 2.0!
Really sorry to hear that you're leaving HP. Haven't had much interaction with you in the past but I know you're one of those who tried to stay here for as long as you are able to and you are always one of those willing to help out in the forums.
Wish you all the luck in all of your endeavors.
Good luck and hope all goes well. We'll still be here if ever you change your mind. I thankyou for your words of encouragement etc.
Noooooo ... but then, again, your choice and decision.
You have been VERY helpful with your knowledge and sharing. Thanks for all that, and best wishes.
You will be sorely missed, wrylilt - you have contributed a great deal to HubPages as well as to individual writers here.
Nevertheless, one must do what must be done. Were I in your shoes I doubt I would have stuck it out as long as you have.
I certainly wish you the best in your endeavors and have little doubt that you will succeed.
Sorry to see you go Wry.
I think your exit was honorable and articulated the problems many of us feel with the site in recent months. Hopefully, some of the HP will actually read this post and take it to heart.
Best of luck.
Sorry to see you go. You will be missed as well as your help with hubbers.
I have to say, I too have wondered about Hubpages and the improvements that appear to be changing the site in the direction of a social media, more than improving for a writers site.
Wry, I wish you the best.. You've always been very inspirational, and I've enjoyed reading your stuff for a long time now. I sincerely hope riches and fame come your way. You'll be missed.
That's not fair Wrylilt. Can't you see that the staff is busy adding so many cool new features, so how can they ever get time to even think about the +1 button?
What, like the commenting accolade? :snort:
Fair's fair, they have impoved a few things recently, like the site search for example. But there are other "improvements" and methodologies (for want of a better word) which make no sense whatsoever and which as Wry said, only served to p1ss off the very people who were making the site money (or who still are making the site money, but aren't producing any new hubs or have even taken some of their hubs down).
Yes, good luck Wry - it sounds like a very sensible decision from your point of view. Who is this John Galt bloke anyway?
All the best Wry.
It well feel strange for a while, but you'll discover that it's a great feeling to stop banging your head against the wall.
No one at hubpages gives a lick about those writers who earn THEIR money. They sure as heck do NOTHING to earn it!
Oh no not you too! You have been the voice of reason and so helpful so often. You will be missed but as you are running a business I fully understand why you are doing this. Good luck with your ventures (and the family). Cheers Marie.
Sorry to see you've reached this decision, Wry - but everyone has to do what he feels will work for him. Good luck and many wishes for well deserved happiness in the future.
I am so sorry to see you go, I had learned a lot from you in short time I have been here. I can understand your statement though. It is not Panda slap that has made many hubbers leave, it is what happened after it, caused like many like misha and others to leave.
You shall be missed.
I don't think that I have interacted very much with you, personally, but I have enjoyed reading your contributions. The place will be worse off without them, I think.
I find the changes very sad. I hope that Hub Pages can get back its magic
All the best!
Also sorry to see you go. Instead of writing new hubs, I have been busy going back and "correcting" old ones to meet the new guidelines and have also wondered about that +1 button. If it helps, one would think that we would be encouraged to add it to our sites. This is the only site that I use for writing. Would hate to see something happen to it! My income has also been drastically affected (not that it was all that high) but it kept building each month. Would love to see it go back to where it was. Best of luck to you!
I heard the +1 can be added to sites but not individual hubs.
Asked about it in this thread:
The Google +1 button can pick up the URL or the Canonical RRL it is placed on. There is no technical reason why it cannot be placed on hubs.
Facebook doesn't have a +1 button, so why does HP's need one, can't you see there heading in the same direction.
Facebook has 'likes' and 'shares'. Which you should also use.
I think you miss my point oli, once all hubbers have their own sub domain there will be no need for a +1 button, this site will be just like Facebook ie a social networking site.
Since the +1 button has been shown to have a direct effect on SERPs i think it would be a rather important feature no matter how the site is structured!
So sorry to hear you are leaving, Wry. You've helped me a lot here in HP and I had always trusted your advice, views and opinions. You will definitely be missed. Good luck, good health, God bless you. Here's to wishing you all the best... Cheers!
Yep. Official thankyou to one of THE top people on here. Helped me settle in when I arrived - very grateful.
Is it maybe slightly more challenging to engineer a way to add +1 to individual hubs than to a site as a whole? Looks like something good on the horizon? Hope it's not an empty bottle floating on the water....
Thank you, WryLilt!
I think I can speak on behalf of the Help forum.
Wrylilt- sorry you are going, hope everything works out well for you and your family- pop in sometimes and let us know?
Wow!! Wrylilt I hate to see you go and you've been a big help on HP.. I hope you decide to come back in the future. You will be truly missed. Good Luck to you sweetie..
I would like to wish you good lucksnd the best for the future. I have noticed but how helpful you have always been in the forums especially to newbies asking questions.
May you have good luck with your writing and wishes for health and happiness to you and your family. I am sure you will be missed.
All of us who take writing serious...we write for our own reason. When a good writer leaves, it makes the other good writers question their own motives, and reasons. (Other writers will care less.) We all have different reasons for writing. Some for the love of writing, some for small income , some for bigger things. Throwing it all away at once is a mistake unless there is a better thing already made and laid out and ready for you to just step into like a new house or suit.
Throwing it away gradually, might give you time to check and see if the new changes being rolled out will help turn around Hub Pages current difficulties. I hope they happen before you leave, as it's clear you are well liked. Starting again from scratch is sad and tough to accomplish. But it is a serious and desperate person who makes such an announcement. I hope someone hears our prayers ...because we all wish for good things.
I've spent the entire time since Panda creating a handful of new sites, redistributing many of my hubs over about five revenue sharing sites and learning about things like kindle book writing, list building and other avenues of building up residual income.
I have left 85 hubs here (along with a handful not worth moving on other accounts) - I'd hardly call that throwing anything away, because those were the only hubs that were still getting any decent views at all. The ones that moved are already getting more views. I think that putting all your eggs in one basket, no matter how comfortable you are with that basket is throwing away what levels of income you could possibly reach if you branched out.
Hubpages was my main income earning site. Now it will be one of many.
Always a wise route for anyone (the "many baskets" thing). I'm not one to see anyone's leaving as a "sad" thing (even if there are people we like seeing around on here). It's a positive step people take that's right for them. It's growth, and it's a good thing. There's turnaround wherever a person works.
I agree, Lisa! These sites always screw up sooner or later. Usually greed gets the best of them as they end up allowing so much garbage on the site it lowers the quality and earnings for everyone.
Just my own personal experience with writing sites.
Astra Nomik, that was a beautiful and inspired post!
Wrylit, I have learned a lot from you and your writing strategy, and am sorry to see you go. It is getting harder and harder to stay at Hubpages, when the potential for earnings is so questionable. I hope to see you elsewhere! All the best.
Good luck Wrylit.You have been a real help to many. I see you are now writing on a new site called wizzley.(this site is recommended by an elite hubber) Goodness knows how many are abandoning Hubpages.Hope things work out well.
Writers for Wizzley claim the staff there is super! They try their best to answer any and all concerns by the members. What a radical new concept! I've joined and may move my best hubs there and perhaps on my own site.
Finding a writing site operated by people who actually show they care for their "partners," because in reality that's what we are, is a rare thing indeed.
You have taught me many things WL, and for this I am grateful. I will miss your strong presence and knowledge here on HubPages. Best of luck in your new task.
~Always Choose Love~
Although we hardly ever spoken to each other that often on hubpages, I always found you to be one of the nicest people here, and definitely one of the most helpful when it came to answering people's questions in regards to their hubs. You'll definitely be missed around here by all us, and I apologize to have to see you go like this. However, I respect you're decision, and I hope whatever future endeavors you may have will work out for you.
I wish you the best of luck in your journey. Thank you for helping me in my time of need. I have been told often that I should move on and find another site to write on, but stubborness has held me here in hope that things will start to look up.
I have to say though, I accepted most of the changes here except for this latest one to make it a live feed or social page (whatever one calls it). I miss having my widgets to flip through at random to compare writers and topics. I would have loved to have seen a live chat in the forums or even this +1, but alas I will flow with the tide a bit longer to see where it goes.
Your voice will be missed along with your presence here, helping others like me. Again, I wish you the best of luck and sorry to see you go.
For what it is worth I think you have made the right decision Wry. Wizzley reminds me of the Hubpages of old, warm, fuzzy, full of likeable people and just as easy to use as Hubpages, (in fact from what I see virtually identical). Good luck, you are a loss to Hubpages, but a gain to Wizzley (amongst other places)
I have to say I was fairly stunned when I first saw Wizzley. It has so many of the features of HP, e.g. Author score, fans/followers, the way Hubs are arranged, (capsules and moving them etc), in fact, you name it! All in all it is HP before the silly rules such as 'slightly pixelated images' became taboo, (whilst completely badly illiterate spun content is being ignored after loads of experienced Hubbers have already flagged the hubs containing such content). Take a look and you will see what I mean. Very impressive all in all
I did check out Wizzley. To me, it looked like an attempt to stuff HubPages inside an elevator.
I just went to check it out, but I'm not surprised at what my impression was. What it is it - a month old? If there's anything about whoever owns/runs the site it's not obvious. Looks to new and iffy to me. Not sure that's the kind of thing people ought to trust their stuff to. I think they'd be better off on their own. (Just an impression, however...) (If they're more relaxed about things like pixelated images - more power to 'em, but it makes me wonder if disregarding those things is the wisest idea in the long term.
i did not join hubpages to make money and have published just 13 hubs and have a limited reach of a max high of 600 readers per page.
i wrote serious pieces too but mostly write humour and the last of my articles about a lost mobile phones was sent back for revision saying it was substandard.This was surprising since the few who had read it had commented that i had made their day and that they had a great laff over it. I sent a query back as to what was substandard and i was told that it means it was not upto the standard of other hubs.Amazingly unenlightened i again asked for a clarification and was told that either the grammar or the formatting were not good. i duly changed some portions trying to change what was otherwise good formatting but was again sent the same back saying it was "too personal"besides being substandard.
i have been in shock since then because every other hub with the exeption of ones on how to make cranberry sauce or how to fix a flat tyre are personal in nature,so is a whole lot of humour.i really am at a loss to understand what to do and have since then stopped writing.i understand the world goes on but i am choking and a really enjoyable activity is going down the drain.
wonder what the solution is.can i fight this revision?what if my next is also sent back as too personal? maybe some of you can help.
Hi neeleshkulkarni, I read your forum post and thought that there were grammatical errors in the post and therefore that was probably true for your hubs as well. So I went to your profile and read two hubs, On running on and My Housewife Day. I thought these were very well written and, with regards to grammar, very good. I do think you have written some good hubs.
Therefore, I do not think you should take the one unpublished hub to heart. Simply fix it if you can, and carry on with your writing.
this is what one hubber said about the hub-
Oh how you made me laugh this morning....haha Thanks for a fun read this morning.
God Bless us and our phones,
this is what another did
Brilliantly funny, Neelesh. I loved every minute of it... and of course, I marked up and funny.
You helped me enormously in the early days, I will miss your comments in the forums and your going to be a sad loss to Hubpages.
I can see your reasons and it will make others question their reasons for being here.
My dad used to say, as one door shuts another one opens and I'm sure they will for you.
Good luck to you wry.
How come every time I come on here, people are leaving? Breaks my heart...shaayeah, right. Even though I only drop in when I have absolutely nothing else to read on the net, I will probably be banned again from the forum for saying anything, but the reality is, hubpages will always be considered a spam content pig-farm because the jokers at the top, thought it would be better to push content count over quality. There were some excellent writers when I was active, now two years later, I see most have disappeared, or they're barely posting, and to go further, they are not even publishing the same material anymore because they know its a trash heap. What's an insomniac writer to do?
You want to hear a louder laugh? For you aspiring writers, tell a prospective client, agent, publisher, you wrote at hubpages and its like giving them a few hits of high grade marijuana. It will have them rolling on the floor.
Leave...follow a traditional path, there are no short cuts and write everyday even if its to yourself. If think the jokers up at the top respect the writers here, think again, jokes on you. They need to make money off you, that's the only reason they pretend to care.
I don't know most of you on this thread, but if you think I am some nutcase, I am, but, search my user name through-out this site before forming a complete opinion. I only write on this thread because I know how much work goes into writing and can relate to a common dream. I hate to see other people fooled. Check that...can't stand it. I have my writing career but you have to break away from this brainwashed pigfart site and seek a legitimate periodical of some kind where you can build publishing credits and actually earn money.
And if the jokers don't remove this post, another sign the end of the world may be coming.
Cue Edmonson's marketing defense team.
Great to see you. Must be a cuppla years since we had intercourse.
(Social that is, for the benefit of the small minded people in here with their fingers forever poised over the report button)
I rarely visit here either. Like you, I got out before the rush.
Pleased to see that you're still alive and kicking.
Why are people leaving? You could write a book about that :-)
Many people have left hubpages recently. They have just left quietly and not ask for a pat on the back on the way out the door.
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