More poor quality food hubs...

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   Matthew Kirkposted 12 years ago

   A forum posted by myself a month or two back sparked a fair bit of controversy and a fair bit of agreement. I stated, that most food hubs on hubpages were poor quality and I stand by that. Not poor quality in the way they are written but more poor quality in the actual food content and the ingredients (many people seem to think using canned or packaged recipes and popping it in a microwave constitutes cooking).
   
   I've now seen one too many poor quality food hubs. Meat is over cooked, nothing is ever seasoned, recipes use mostly pre-packed and factory made food etc....
   
   I actually feel embarrassed sometimes to include my own recipes among these! I would give examples but not publicly. Surely now there should be an option when you flag to complain that the recipe itself if poor and will bring down the respectability of the good recipe hubs!?
   
   (If anyone wants examples of these poor recipes then I can send them over to you privately to prove my point! And there are many!)
   
   (Please also note that I'm not out to offend; if you are offended then please feel free to leave a message... as long as its not too heated)

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      dragnhazeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Please let me know if I happen to fall in the poor quality food hubs, I've only published 2 recipes, but I would like to make sure what I have is of at the very least - good quality.  I actually haven't really looked at very many food hubs and the few I have looked at were of pretty good quality.  I understand that some use packaged foods because it's faster, however a lot of packaged foods are bad for you because of all the additives and fake ingredients.  A lot of packaged foods are just as good eating toy food.  I happen to like to spice up my food myself instead of relying on a package to make my food taste good.

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      writeronlineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      "I actually feel embarrassed sometimes to include my own recipes among these!' What a shocking state of affairs. You poor thing, it must be AWFUL for you to have to share your Hubpages (I assume they're yours, although I'd stupidly believed them to be a platform for all writers, but hey, we all make mistakes. Well, except you, obviously..). Anyway... you'll be delighted to know that your message has been heard. I just yesterday read a new Hub recipe that I'm sure deserves to sit proudly alongside your own..http://weekend.hubpages.com/hub/The-Correct-Process-of-Preparing-an-Evening-Meal-for-the-Novice

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         writeyourwrongsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         One of the funnier hubs I have read in a while. Thanks writeronline.

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         Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It is a funny hub!

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      moonlakeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry, I'm getting ready to put one of my boxed recipes on. I'm not a chef like you I cook what we like. I often cook from the garden when we have it but I also cook from a box. I'm sure my recipes are very likely some you have flagged. I wondered why all those recipes were dropping!

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      SimeyCposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If the hub is well written and provides a decent recipe despite using canned goods is that a bad thing? A lot of people cannot afford to use fresh ingredients and therefore will not read recipes that call for fresh garlic and herbs etc.
      
      While I agree about the overcooking part - a hub using canned goods can be very useful. In some of my recipes I actually say fresh goods are preferred (and mostly prepare them using fresh ingredients) but then give the alternatives...powdered garlic, tinned veggies etc..

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         Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Simey,
         If we're talking about dried pasta, or good quality bottle passatta or chopped tomato, chutney or puree then I would agree, but would draw the line there.
         
         A clove of garlic is cheaper than powdered in my experience and the clove will last a few weeks and you will get between 10 and 20 uses out of it - 25p -35p in the UK

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      Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Read a hub recipe today that called for mash - it didn't even mention a potato, "next make the mash out of the packet" - reminds me of that jamie oliver program in the US where most of the kids, parents and dinner ladies didn't know that mash is even potato and thought it had always come out of a packet. not that the uk is much better these days, disgusting.

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         Barbara Kayposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         In some places mash means a mixture of ground up corn that we is fed to pigs. Yuck.
         
         I still think good hubs are much higher than 1 out of 10 though.

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            Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Lets hope they didn't mean that haha!

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      carol7777posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Actually i am a using fresh ingredients aholic.  If you are going to cook why not use fresh.  I use an occasional can for olives, tomatoes, tuna and a stock of canned beans for emergency cooking.  I know how you feel.

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      Helena Rickettsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I don't do a lot of recipe hubs but I do have a few.  The last two that I did were with chicken and I even raised and processed the chickens featured in the recipe hubs myself.  Now THAT'S as close to "not coming out of a box" as you can get.
      
      I agree with you and we very rarely ever eat anything that has a boxed or canned ingredient unless I canned it myself.  I did use a box of organic chicken broth on one soup recipe instead of my home made broth but I wanted to get rid of the boxed broth.  The soup was still fantastic because all of the veggies were out of the garden and the eggs that finished it off were laid by my laying hens. 
      
      I've always said to each their own but I also say that we have been raising a generation of people that are very disconnected from their food and where it comes from.  In my opinion, that is actually sad because we have to eat to survive and what we eat can either keep us healthy or make us sick.

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         Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         This is what I am talking about Helena. Your chickens must be amazing, modern chickens which are farmed intensively (nearly all of what the western world eats) have a lack of good muscle tissue and have almost no omega three in their meat because of the conditions they are reared in. You can tell the difference massively.
         
         What you're doing is fantastic, (and I wish I had some chickens too!) but not for everyone. To be as disconnected as most people who have commented here have been is the problem. All of the poor single mothers who don't have time... as I've said before shape up because it will be effecting your childrens health as well as their ability to taste in the future.

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            Helena Rickettsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            They are really good when it comes to cooking them and there is a big difference between commercially farmed chickens and "home grown."  We feed them really well and not just chicken feed either.  One particular, very large difference between them that jumps out between the two is when we harvest the livers, hears and gizzards.  Our chicken's parts were considerably larger and healthier looking that what you get at the store.  The meat itself is better too, it's denser since we don't inject broth or water into it like a lot of commercial processing plants do during packaging.
            
            Thank you!  I love being able to do this and realize that not everyone can but they can get this food from others.  I have been asked by numerous people to teach them how to process because they want to know how but have never done it.  The food movement is gaining speed as more info comes out but obviously it isn't anywhere near where it should be.  Processed food should have a skull and crossbones warning label on it.  Or a Mr. Yuck sticker if you are old enough to remember him. 
            
            The feed that a lot commercial chickens are fed in the US has low levels of arsenic in it.  They use it as a growth promoter for the chicken to grow faster.  You'd be surprised what ends up being fed to commercially farmed animals that gets into our bodies as a result.  Everyone freaked out over pink slime in the hamburger but they can put that stuff into the feed of the animals that we eat and no one blinks an eye even though people are STILL eating it, it just takes a different route to get to us.  (That's been going on for a LONG time.)  Those two things alone should be incentives for people to start searching out better quality food and stop turning to the "quick and easy."  Once you eat the good stuff, the other just doesn't even sound or look good anymore.

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   Cagsilposted 12 years ago

   Other? And then leave a message for staff.
   
   If staff agrees with your assessment, then so be it.
   
   If staff doesn't agree with your assessment, then leave it alone.

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      davenmidtownposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Matthew: An interesting post to be sure... I think a great approach would be to show people who to cook with real ingredients and not with boxed, canned, or otherwise packaged foods. I grew up in a gardening family and my father was a fisherman, so I understand fresh ingredients. My mother did not cook with boxed or packaged foods but in today's world that is a rarity. Compare my sister to myself and you would find the opposite... she enjoys boxed and packaged foods, whereas, I do not. In fact, she always thinks I am starving to death when she visits because all she finds in my cupboards are ingredients and not boxes nor cans.
      
      How do we change peoples desire to use boxed ingredients? We don't we can simply choose to show them how to cook using real-fresh ingredients...

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         Joe Machoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Well said

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         carol7777posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         The best way to change people for anything is to set a good example, and you are doing that.

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      Sally's Troveposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      +1

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   Sally's Troveposted 12 years ago

   Just so others don't need to spend time searching, the other forum thread was:
   
   http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/97941
   
   I think that earlier thread beat this subject to death.
   
   As for flagging, you can flag any hub at any time. If there isn't a specific "poor recipe" category as a reason for flagging, you can write your own reason.

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   Mark Ewbieposted 12 years ago

   I am enraged by this issue, or similar anyway.  Not food so much because I couldn't give a monkey's but by a number of so called humor writers.
   
   They publish any number of pages which claim to be amusing, and indeed are a bit if you like that sort of thing, and attract a great deal of attention - people saying they wet themselves and spat coffee, etc.
   
   These people are cheats because they put jokes in and funny pictures.
   
   I have had to write to HubPages about this on many occasions and recently received a letter in response to my asking if they could delete these 'funny' authors entirely.
   
   "You must be joking" they responded.
   
   Well, I wasn't joking and if this continues it will bring the whole site down.
   
   It's at times like this, and I do sympathise over the crap cooking business, that I am reminded of the words of the late Martin Luther King.
   
   "Chillax" he said.

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      davenmidtownposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It's monkey's butt... are you quoting Martin Luther King or Martin Luther King Jr.? or was that Malchom in the middle?

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         Mark Ewbieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I like monkey's butt - but I meant monkey's... but.  In the UK the "monkey's" on it's own is sufficient to express a lack of real care about something.
         
         That's cleared that up.
         
         On the subject of MLK... I seem to have run out of time.

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            davenmidtownposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            in that case... even in the UK... it would just be Monkey or Monkies unless you truely meant monkey's butt or Monkies, but.... :-)

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               Mark Ewbieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Right.  In the UK it is common parlance to say "I don't give a monkey's".  I honestly don't know what the monkey's thing is, could be a toss or a butt or something else but it is definitely a valid expression.
               
               I will probably not use it again on the forums unless I am being particularly ass splittingly funny.

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                  davenmidtownposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  lol @ Mark... you are always ass splittingly funny...

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                     Mark Ewbieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I'll take that and duck out.  Never get involved, just comment and run...

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      Kangaroo_Jaseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thats what you get when you read most of my Hubs Mark

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   rmcrayneposted 12 years ago

   Matthew I'm sure you'd find many of my recipe hubs offensive, and worthy of your public service offender list.  But there are different audiences out there. 
   
   I grew up in a working class family.  Both my parents worked shift work in the cotton mill.  My mother is an excellent cook, in the Southern tradition.  We had lots of suppers with fried meat, rice or potatoes with milk gravy, and a “vegetable” that was usually a starch.  Up through the mid- to late-80s, my mom still had a 5-gallon canister of pork lard in the pantry.  There are many of us who share these sort of recipes.  That doesn’t mean we continue to eat these kinds of meals every day.  While this unhealthy fare may highly insult your sensibilities, on the whole, I doubt there is any legitimate reason to flag the hubs. 
   
   My second point is that my mom also made a lot of dinners from boxed and canned goods.  Frankly I don’t know how she had the energy to cook at all, working shift work in the mill.  During my teen years, she worked third shift.  Most nights, I cooked supper, and woke her when it was ready.  I made a lot of packaged meals.  We never ate out, or ordered out during the week.  My folks were too budget-conscious for that.  So yes, I have written even more offensive hubs using the dreaded boxed and canned foods.  I myself buy as few as possible canned and pre-packaged meals to minimize preservatives and other chemicals in my diet.  I subscribe to an organic vegetable delivery program.  But I’ve written these dastardly hubs from my personal experience for people who have very busy lives, or who have no cooking experience.  I think these kinds of meals can be healthier than McDonald’s.   
   
   There are plenty of hubs I find offensive.  People who obviously have very little knowledge of a health topic writing on health topics is but one example.  Yet there is usually nothing to flag.

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   MrsBkayposted 12 years ago

   Well, sometimes the pre-packaged, pop something in the microwave recipe is exactly what I'm looking for as a mother of a toddler with a part time job, full time school, and an internship. I just make sure the sides are healthy, like steamed veggies or fresh fruits.

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   Sherry Hewinsposted 12 years ago

   I think people can tell pretty easily by looking at a recipe if it's something they want to cook or eat, (and yes, some people want quick and easy, or are more concerned about cost than quality) and I don't understand why you think other people's recipes will affect yours. I see plenty of dumb or crappy hubs about all kinds of subjects. If they don't break any rules, I just ignore them

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      MrsBkayposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think any hubs are "dumb" or "crappy". We are all at different levels and looking for different things. =]

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         Barbara Kayposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         MrsBkay, I agree. +1
         
         Lots of young mothers are looking for quick and easy recipes just because that is all the time they have to cook.

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            Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            What about young fathers?
            
            What about their babies/childrens health: the high salt content alone in most packaged/ pre-made food is the least of their worries?
            
            Quick and easy doesn't have to mean poor quality or packaged. You can make an omlette in half the time of a microwave meal.
            
            If young (or old mothers) can't do this for their kids regularly (not every single night) then they should shape up.

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               DMartelonlineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Wow - better watch out going outside in the rain, you could drown with your nose stuck so high up in the air.

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   CMHypnoposted 12 years ago

   If you are really that passionate about controlling content and things being the way you see them, why not set up your own blog or website?  Then you could set the parameters and even invite guest posters who share your cooking aims and build a good site around your way of cooking and eating?
   
   As HP is all about writing about anything you want as long as it is within the rules, you are just wasting energy trying to force people into your way of thinking and writing here. Everyone has the right to live, eat and cook and share recipes the way they choose - vive la difference I say!

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      MrsBkayposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      !!! I agree !!!

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      Sally's Troveposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That pretty much sums it up.

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      Healthy Pursuitsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      CMHypno, you took the words right out of my mouth! 
      
      Matthew Kirk, while I agree that it would be great if we all cooked from scratch, and while I cook from scratch myself, I find your returning to this pet peeve over and over again pretty controlling, not to mention that it's becoming tiresome. 
      
      You could very easily make your own food hub on Blogspot. It's an easy - and free - way to start a blog, and you can use your Adsense all you want. Then you could invite other writers, and control ALL of the recipes ALL of the time. No packages or cans would make it past you. And everyone would be much happier.

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         Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Healthy pursuits; you don't have to get involved if you're tired of it? I find your insistence on getting involved very suspicious if you're that tired of the whole thing. No need to comment again in that case.

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            Healthy Pursuitsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I notice that you didn't address my point about your being controlling. And I found it very suspicious how controlling your reply was.

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      jolinabettsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      + 100 points!
      
      Maybe next time, this guy should write this:
      
      " rules should be none crappy recipes with no artificial ingredients, all organic with DHA approval".
      
      As a mother , i appreciate reading the recipes here and i really take note on most recipes because most of them has personal touches.
      
      I believe he just wanted some attention to elevate his hubscore, whatelse?

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      jolinabettsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      + 100 points!
      
      Maybe next time, this guy should write this:
      
      " rules should be none crappy recipes with no artificial ingredients, all organic with DHA approval".
      
      As a mother , i appreciate reading the recipes here and i really take note on most recipes because most of them has personal touches.
      
      I believe he just wanted some attention to elevate his hubscore, whatelse?

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   Cagsilposted 12 years ago

   This thread should have been dead a long time ago. All it was created for was for the sole purpose of someone who's ego wanted to be heard.
   
   Nothing more and nothing less. I reported this thread when it was posted because I figured it was actually inappropriate to tell other people what way to form their recipes and what should be allowed on a hub or be put into a recipe.
   
   It's one of the rudest threads and should be closed to reply.

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      gmwilliamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      +++++++++++!!!!!

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      Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      thanks cagsil, you might notice I barely reply to the thread, so not sure how much it really is inflating my ego. Its not about me at all, its about people who dont know how to cook posting food recipes. When I started baking I came across dozens of terrible recipes that set me back a long time in producing good stuff, this is my problem.

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         writeronlineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Sorry, but it's clear that ego is at the root of your post. Sadly, you're not alone. Too many self-absorbed peiople on HP trying to tell others how to write. If you don't like the heat in this particular kitchen, why not open your own? Virtually of course. Write a blog, test your alleged 'recipe for success' in your own space.

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         jolinabettsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         @ Matthew Kirk : SO will you let us know that you've started cooking ALL these so called Crappy Recipes you say  on hubpages and tell us the scorecards of each?
         
         We're waiting..

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            Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Not a bad idea, but I don't have the stomach for it unfortunately, plus it would be a tad too far to point out particular recipes; something I haven't done up to this point, we've all seen them though...

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    Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years ago

    My thanks, writeronline, for posting the very informative and professionally written hub for novices.

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    Ddraigcochposted 12 years ago

    Why complain when there is a reader base for it? It is not SPAM, it is just not YOUR style. Some University students or people who don't or Can't cook, want the quick fix recipes and short cut tips are in these recipes you hate.
    Why should everyone live to YOUR expectations OP?

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       Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       They don't have to, but surely some knowledge must be required, people who cook small fillets of fish on a 230C oven for 30 mins should not be posting fish recipes, that is my point, it lowers the standards of everyone who looks at the recipe and decides to try it.

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          IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I actually agree with you. Too many recipes are not good, or accurate, and are of no help to people looking for lessons on how to cook something.
          
          I followed the recipe of an extremely high profile hubber here, and it was disgusting. It was quite clear to me that this hubber had missed out vital ingredients, or somehow got it wrong, yet no-one had ever mentioned it in the comments.
          
          From another hubber I found the correct recipe, and it was perfect.
          
          I think all recipe hubs should have that star rating thing, then it is possible to vote down a bad recipe without offending the author.
          
          I see many recipe books also promoting ready-made products, but I don't want to read them online. I know that is just a personal opinion, but the whole point is that if you have a ready-made jar of whatever, the company normally prints a recipe on how to use it on the label.
          
          When I look up recipes, it's because I am in a place where you can't buy ready-made sauces and have to cook from scratch.
          
          Your point about the fish is perfect. Someone who cannot cook should not be advising anyone else how to.
          
          Readers will avoid the whole of Hubpages if they are disappointed by the standard of recipes published here that they may have found through the search engines.

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             Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Thats exactly it Izzy, readers will stop coming back, or some will. And the problem with the star system is that people receive positive feedback no matter what they post on here. One example is a hub about watching porn with your spouse, it wasn't even well written and obviously the content wasn't exactly ground breaking, more the deranged ramblings of a disturbed individual.... they received several positive comments, and one or two negative ones, its like people are on automatic pilot when they leave comments.

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       calculus-geometryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Ha ha! I thought the same thing.  OP would be surprised at the number of people who don't want to spend the time to season and cook meat to perfection.  Some people just want to open a box and add water and heat.  If someone has come up with a novel recipe that only uses boxed ingredients, you can bet there are people who want to know it.

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          Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I probably would be suprised at the number, it is shocking to see so many positive comments on some of them too!

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             Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I really don't understand why you are so concerned. If your recipes are far superior, as you suggest they are, then you will receive lots of positive ratings from your readers.

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                Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Read my reply to Izzy's comment

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                   Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   I had already read your comment to Izzy. Nevertheless, most comments are given by other hubbers who follow that particular hubber. Same with the star system. But that doesn't mean that organic searchers will stop visiting the site for recipes. If an organic searcher dislikes a recipe that much they will be prepared to down rate the recipe. They probably wont want to try recipes from that hubber again, but it doesn't mean they will not visit recipe hubs from other hubbers. Whatever you think of the "poor" quality of other recipe hubs, your priority should be to make sure that your own have accurate measurements for the ingredients and have been tried and tested. That's what the reader will judge YOU on, not the recipes from other hubbers.

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                      Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      The reader will judge the website as a whole as well. I do and have actively avoided similar sites because of poor quality control or in the case of hp commenters and raters who are desperate to say how lovely the whole thing was to increase their own views or whatever their agenda is. Poor hubs (and poor recipes) will damage overall readership, there is no doubt about it.

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                         Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         The great thing about this site is it's diversity. I very much doubt that a reader would judge the whole site on a poor recipe, given that for every poor hub there are ten great ones. And that is if they think it's poor in the first place. You know the old saying "one man's meat is another man's poison" While you might find something horrible, another might find it delicious.
                         
                         Hub hopping helps to get rid of the spammers and those who can barely string a sentence together. However, if I understand you correctly, you're complaining about the quality of the recipe ie. those which use packaged or convenience foods. That's what some readers want, and whilst there's an audience for that type of recipe, writers will write that type of hub. In terms of baking fish for half an hour, I agree, I hate food which has been cooked to death, however, my mother and will sister will not touch fish or meat until it has been truly incinerated. My point being, that that's how some people like their food.

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                            Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            Its not just the packaged foods hollie, it is poor knowledge and overall quality. And I would say that for every 1 great hub there are 10 poor ones rather than the other way round.
                            
                            There is a lot of poetry around on here too so its probably more like for every 1 great hub there are 10 poor ones and another 10 low quality cliche poems or short stories (which tend to be marginally better). I have until now stopped short of criticising the many poets, its their choice to publish that stuff but personally everyone I have read has made my stomach churn, not least from most of the subject matter 'another poem about love", "a poem about the paths of life..."  YUCK!

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                               Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                               Poetry is not really my thing, either. I don't get it most of the time and I suspect I'm not cultured enough. But some people love it. Personally, I couldn't comment on the quality (except for one hubber, who's poetry I understand and she delivers it beautifully) because I'm not knowledgeable enough about the subject matter.
                               
                               But the funny thing is, some years ago I paid to attend a cooking workshop and I learnt a great deal, I loved it. Having said that, on the course we were told never to season (just salt I mean) meat or fish whilst it is cooking because it draws out the juices and leaves the dish dry- so to always use salt at the end of cooking the dish or when you serve it. Yet, even sites like Jamie Oliver and Gordon Ramsey season meat and fish with salt whilst it is cooking. I suppose that shows that "knowledge" can be subjective.

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                                  Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                  You might be right about knowledge being subjective, but to not season meat or fish is the ramblings of an idiot. Without salt early on, especially is red meat cuts means the flavour won't develop, it only draws out the juices if you're marinading for long periods of time. That person shouldn't have been giving cooking lessons on meat.

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                                     Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                     Well I disagree. I would never depend on salt to give a dish flavour, too many other great ingredients to include. Salt draws out the juices whether cooking or marinading- think pork crackling, adding salt draws out any remaining juices and gives the crackle.

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                                        Matthew Kirkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                        You have to depend on salt, try grinding a load of pepper into hot water and tasting it, you wont taste the pepper much at all, add a pinch of salt and you will taste the pepper very strongly.
                                        
                                        Try cooking something simple like heating up passatta and taste it, then add salt and taste again, you will see why salt is so important.

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    Hollie Thomasposted 12 years ago

    You can add other ingredients, herbs for one. Salt can be added later, to taste. But there again, I spent six years cooking for my sister when she was on dialysis. No salt. You'd be amazed at how using other ingredients bring out flavour- you don't have to depend on salt.

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