nominatng and voting for moderators

1. 66

   Lady Guinevereposted 12 years ago

   Cagsil got banned for 7 days for providing help to new members.  Well he complained about is as he should have and now he is banned for 3 months.  Where in the TOS does it state that we are not permitted to help one another.  The Moderators need to grow up.  This is not elementary school.  I don't go into the forums because of the kinds of childish acts.  What is it an EGO boost to be a moderator? 
   I took a look at the Moderators bio's and was not happy with seeing 3 out of 6 were educated in Early Childhood.  We are not children.  We need a broader spectrum of Moderator qualifications.

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   1. 0

      EmpressFelicityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Srsly?
      
      Somehow, I am not surprised.

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   2. 60

      paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Holy Hotdog! First I heard of this.
      
      Hey, Cags! I'm going to go tweet one of your hubs.

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   3. 74

      Danposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You are correct.  Our TOS does not state that Hubbers are not allowed to help one another, and in accordance with this, no Hubbers has ever been banned from the forums for doing so.
      
      Would it be better to have moderators that weren't educated in early childhood?  I'm not sure that I understand this objection.

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      1. 83

         Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         OK, but that doesn't answer the question.  The forum rules state that Self Promotion is not allowed and that "this includes linking to your Hubs or any site that you have a vested interest in promoting.".
         
         As "includes" was used, that could be interpreted as mentioning any hub in any context - heck, in a ridiculous interpretation it would include mentioning that you wrote anything, ever!
         
         It doesn't come up often, but once in a while there have been things that come up where I do have a hub that answers the question directly.  I'm not talking about garden variety stuff, I mean extremely esoteric details that aren't easy to find unless you know where they are.
         
         In such cases, leery of the promotion ban, I've usually said things like "Search for 'xxx yyy'", knowing that they will find it because I have pretested the search.    At other times, I and others have just said "I do have a hub about that", with the assumption being that's enough to let them find what they need.
         
         As I said earlier, usually I can find somebody else's material and, as my interest is helping rather than promoting, I'll link to that, which I hope is still appropriate.  But I can't ALWAYS do that.
         
         If the rules really are this tight, helping at all becomes more difficult.

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         1. 96

            rmcrayneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            +1

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2. 60

   SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years ago

   3 months?....that is totally ridiculous....it must be a mistake...

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3. 80

   Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years ago

   I'm not sure I get it - what sort of help would justify being banned?  Are there guidelines for us on what we can say or do to support other members? I can see if someone were to offer help for pay (editing or something) that it could be a no-no.  I recently read a hub with good writing but no paragraph breaks. I gave positive feedback, but considered sending a personal message suggesting it might read better with a paragraph break here & there.  Not so sure I'll do that now - at least not until I understand how 'help' is defined here.

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4. 60

   Mark Ewbieposted 12 years ago

   I'm guessing offering to help remove someone's head from their ass might be seen as slightly negative.
   
   That's not what happened by the way.  Just an example of how help might be misconstrued.
   
   I don't know the facts of the situation.

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   1. 96

      rmcrayneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Excellent example.  I don’t know what happened either, but I am absolutely certain Cags did not get banned merely “for providing help to new members”.  I imagine if someone were so inclined, they could check his hubtivity, look at forum threads he participated in, and find the real deal.
      
      I like Cags, and will miss him in the forums.  Three months is a long time. 
      Plenty of times I’ve seen threads like this.  And not every time, but enough times, someone has linked to a forum thread/post that told the real tale.  Often it is a no-brainer, much like Mark’s example.  So basically, I never believe hubbers were banned “for no good reason”.  So often hubbers drop into a thread, read only a small portion, and miss “the rest of the story”.  This is how ugly rumors get started.  There’s certainly enough of this phenomena as well.
      
      Also, Miss G, moderators are HubPages paid staff.  They are not nominated and voted.

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      1. 66

         Lady Guinevereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I know that they are paid staff.  Makes no difference as to if they are paid or not.
         On a hub forum on Facebook Cags (Ray) told of the thread that he got his ban from and they were pointing to helpful hubs as in how to write them.  They did NOT include a URL.  As far as I know that passed HP TOS.

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5. 66

   relacheposted 12 years ago

   Don't expect Admin to show up and explain the situation to you with any details because, as has been stated repeatedly, they don't discuss the details of individual situations in the forums. 
   
   And I'm sure there is more to the situation than what you've stated here.

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6. 84

   rebekahELLEposted 12 years ago

   Early Childhood educators study human behavior and how the brain develops and operates. Actually I've read their bios and didn't see that they have early childhood education backgrounds.
   In these forums, that background could be helpful.
   
   Cags has been banned numerous times, I think after a certain number of times, the time period increases. I like Cags and I'm sorry he was banned - it's between him and the moderator.

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7. 78

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   Mods are here to enforce the rules not win popularity contests, if what they had done was incorrect as the PTB saw it--they would have reversed it. You don't have to like it, but this is a private company and they can run it according to any rules they want.
   
   I think it is pretty pointless to do anything but ask for clarification as to exactly what rule was broken so we can all avoid doing so in the future.

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   1. 66

      Lady Guinevereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      He did ask and did get an answer and I just told you the first answer.  Now when they changed it a few days after the 7 days, when he hadn't been in them, to the 3 months...the did not give him an explanation.
      
      Newbies here...many of us have been here many years and we do know what and how this company is about.  It was much different then than it is now.

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8. 83

   IzzyMposted 12 years ago

   This company is about making money through revenue share with writers.
   
   Forum posting is a privilege and if we break the rules we can expect to be banned. The 3 months in Cags case seems excessive, but he has been banned a multitude of times before, and maybe that is why the ban is for such an extended period. Who knows?

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   1. 66

      Lady Guinevereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Freedom of Speech mean anything here?

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      1. 83

         Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Nope.
         
         Their game, their rules.

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         1. 66

            Lady Guinevereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Why do you suppose many have left HP in the first place.  You all make it sound like a game......a child's game.  Aren't we better than the mine, mine, nine attitude.  We share our views because this is a company about sharing.  When that stops companies crumble.  I have already seen this when Panda went through.  If the post in forums, the public doesn't see them.  So why the ban at all.  As I was told once by a Moderator it is up to the individual on weather they want to read or write in the forums at all.  It is the individuals choice.  I complained about a troll and I was the one admonished.  Something is wrong here and no natter how you explain it it still smells fishy.
            Now tat and asked to be a snitch on my friends got me to quit forums altogether.  I see things are still at the children's level and again I leave forums.

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            1. 86

               Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Why do you say that?  The forums aren't hidden behind a password, they are open to everyone and forum posts do show up in Google search engine results so the public does see them.
               
               I do think that treating the "women of HP" forum as self-promotion was a mistake on HP's part - it was pretty obvious it was a community endeavour. If HP didn't approve of it, they should have told us all it was inappropriate and closed the thread, no need for banning.

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            2. 73

               AEvansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               LG, the public does see them. A ban can come from a combination of things. A ban does not come from assisting someone or spreading hub love. Replies can create a ban on the forum. What one person may find offensive another may not. How a person projects themselves or responds to another can cause a ban. There are so many issues but you can bet your bippy he will survive.
               
               I have actually banned myself out of the forums and believe me, you honestly accomplish more.

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9. 73

   AEvansposted 12 years ago

   After reviewing the bio's I did not see any with early childhood education degrees. All of them have some type of subject they majored in College. Being banned for 3 months only equals 90 days. Cags will survive and it will give him plenty of time to write and focus on things he likes to do.
   
   
   The forums is not the only place we need to spend our time, we can spend it reading, writing and cleaning up our hubs.

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10. 74

    KeithTaxposted 12 years ago

    That is why we need SOPA passed. Call your Congressman to protect your copyright.

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    1. 83

       Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Huh?
       
       His content isn't banned, just his forum posting privileges.
       
       Yes, call about SOPA.  But not because of this!

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11. 84

    rebekahELLEposted 12 years ago

    I think the thread in question has been closed to reply. But I'm sure Cags will continue to publish the hub about women hubbers. I guess the thread received many flags in regard to self promotion.
    
    I hear the complaint often about how HP has changed. Well, any business changes with massive growth. HP has much more to moderate now than 3 years ago, both with volume of hubs and forum posts.

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    1. 66

       Lady Guinevereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       IF he had put links to his hubs in that thread, then yes it would have been self promotion and against TOS.  Since he only gave names of his hubs, and MANY OTHERS did the same, it is NOT against TOS.  It appears to others that teaching others or helping them write better hubs is the offence.  It it also looking from the outside as some kind of personal attack as he was the ONLY one who was banned.  WE are here to promote our work and in turn Hub Pages and using the excuse of Self Promotion doesn't begin to make sense when it is in a forum.

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       1. 85

          GinnyLeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I doubt that is the case.  I don't know what the offense was, but I can't imagine (even with a stretch of the imagination) that helping people is the reason for a three month ban.

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       2. 71

          Quilligrapherposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Hi there, M’lady. It is nice to chat with you again.
          
          Like you, I feel badly about our friend being hit with a 30-day ban from the forums. Without getting into the severity of 7-days or 30-days, I really think it is a tad unfair to attack the moderators.
          Cag’s post (http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/91353#post1948929) was clearly self-promotional although he may not have intended it to be so blatant. As a self-proclaimed HubPages “expert,” he did not set a good example to a new member. Most of the other greeters referred the OP to the learning center, but Cags only directed him to his own hubs.  Then he added an anonymous and purely self-serving endorsement of his own hubs.
          In the spirit of free speech, each of us has to take responsibility for our own words. I am sorry to see it happen to Cags. We will miss him but he will be back and we will all be here to greet him.

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       3. 83

          Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Well, the forum rules actually refer to self promotion INCLUDING links.

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12. 72

    seanorjohnposted 12 years ago

    Like one poster mentioned, it could be to do with just exactly how he was helping the newbies. I know he was requesting photos (Innocent ones) from the female writers for a tribute hub. Perhaps a newbie took offence.
    
    Cagsil does seem to get banned a lot. I think hubpages even nominated him for the person most likely to get banned. He is an amusing fellow and I am sure he doesn't always realise how his words can be construed. I think it must be very easy to bait such a guy and get him banned.
    
    Nevertheless, he seems to come back and just carry on as usual. He certainly doesn't seem to whinge about it all. But maybe he should stop and think once in a while.

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13. 89

    mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years ago

    As far as I can tell from what Cagsil has said, the post he was originally banned for was this one: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/91353#post1948929
    
    Nothing to do with his female writers tribute hub, and not even on the same thread! The above link is to the post he was originally told was the reason for the ban by Hubpages.

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    1. 84

       rebekahELLEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I don't see why he would be banned for that thread?  He didn't post the links.
       
       I was just going by another thread posted about why his thread was closed, and one of the moderator's replies.
       http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/91467
       
       Whatever it is, we don't really know. It's too bad that some people get so flag happy.

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       1. 89

          mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Exactly, he didn't post the links, but that is the comment that was cited as a reason for his initial 7 day ban (now extended to 3 months).

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       2. 96

          rmcrayneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Banned for self promotion, huh? 
          
          Before I even joined HP, I read hours and hours of TOS, FAQs, etc to familiarize myself with the rules.  Have to say this ban for self promotion has caught me by surprise in more ways than one.  I would not have suspected Cags’ post to be considered self promotional.  Respected, veteran hubbers used to routinely answer questions with links to their hubs, which covered the topic.  I found this helpful.  I’m also surprised Cags was banned for this.  When someone starts a thread for the sole purpose of posting self promotional links, the links are usually snipped.  Have these hubbers been banned? 
          
          If the ban is for Cags’ thread recruiting female hubbers for his annual Valentine’s Day hub honoring the women of HP, I’d be even more surprised.  I don’t see this as being any different from AEvans’ annual hubber of the year project. 
          
          I’d be inclined to think the ban was for something else, but I looked at his forum posts, going back 8 days on Cagsil’s hubtivity and didn’t see anything inflammatory. 
          
          I guess I need to return to the drawing board, and read TOS and FAQs anew.

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    2. 66

       Lady Guinevereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks Misty.  THAT was and is what I have been talking about from the start,  People just love to spin stories off of others just like have done here.

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14. 60

    paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

    I suppose Cags could tell all with his next hub comment. Hint. Hint.

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15. 60

    paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

    Cags sent me an email. Bless his heart. He is fine.
    
    As to the topic under discussion, it is now my conclusion that it would be unwise to mention one's own hubs for any reason. Unfortunately, I know that sooner or later I will temporarily forget that and put my foot in it. Oh, well.

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    1. 60

       SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       ..yeah, that makes a lot of sense...considering folks are here to write...but don't mention anything...don't talk about it.....it's a big secret......it's against the rules....flags rule.....
       
       

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    2. 83

       Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Why the secrecy?
       
       If this is the rule now, is it absolute?  Ir is it a matter of too many in a short period?
       
       Seems odd that if somebody  needs help here you can't help them with a hub, but if they ask a Question, you can.
       
       But if that's what it is, so be it.  It doesn't come up that often anyway - I can usually find someone else's hub to recommend.

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       1. 60

          paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I could be wrong. But I, for one, am not going to risk it.

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16. 60

    paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

    Meanwhile, I think I'll go tweet another one of his hubs.

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17. 60

    paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

    @Cags
    
    PracticalMommy2 retweeted your motivation hub.

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18. 65

    Greek Oneposted 12 years ago

    hmmm 3 months eh?
    
    How many lady Hubbers would like to participate in a new Hub I am creating called "Women of Hubpages"?

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    1. 60

       SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       you're too much GO!......

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    2. 87

       dungeonraiderposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       "Cagsil and the Women of Hubpages" would get more views, Greek One.

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       1. 65

          Greek Oneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          How about "Cagsil's Women of Hubpages".. If I publish first I think that is an automatic copyright.

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          1. 87

             dungeonraiderposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Hehe.  Yes, I believe that's right.  The only problem is "Cagsil's" will get negative comments for being possessive, or for sounding too much like "National Lampoon's".

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             1. 65

                Greek Oneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                just as long as the visit my Hub... doesn't matter if they tell me to !%@%%^@
                
                as a matter of fact, it is an usual occurrence if the don't do that

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19. 66

    awareposted 12 years ago

    hello

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    1. 60

       SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       hola!

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20. 56

    Dame Scribeposted 12 years ago

    I imagine the 'flagger' got the better end of the deal and would've had to be dang compelling but there are those of us who do appreciate Cags and how he does help others keep up the good work, Cags you get a +1

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