Would the world be a better place if there were fewer atheists?

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Barefootfaeposted 12 years ago
This seems to be an issue. There is a forum beating Christians over the head so I decided why not be fair?
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Tough question, there does not seem to be any central atheist doctrine and there is no evidence that atheists commit any more crimes (indeed the crime rate is falling as atheist numbers rise) there is no doubt that atheists do evil things as do people of every denomination but since they have no militant doctrine even militant atheists are relatively harmless (sometimes not, take the USSR for example, but that was more communism than atheism).
  
  How I would answer the question is simply when was the last time we saw an atheist in the media blowing up a church? Or killing people for having their faith, on the other hand we have Christians blowing up abortion clinics, Muslims killing Christians, Christians killing Muslims, Christians still killing Christians over the protestant vs Catholic war in Ireland etc etc. so given that tendency to violence I would say no the world would be better off with more atheists as their doctrine (or lack thereof) does not lead them to evil and violent acts.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Truth is Josak, True Christianity IS HERE to Remove Evil.
  
  Imagine for a moment a world where EVERYONE has repented of their SINS, been Cleansed and Forgiven, and through Honouring God, JESUS & Holy Scripture, ARE GOING FORTH, Deliberately sinning NO MORE...
  
  THIS, is The Ultimate Goal of The Gospel.
  
  It's REBELLION AGAINST The True, Advanced Gospel that IS the Actual Source of ALL Evil in the world NOW...
  
  One Day (1000 Years), The Hope Above Becomes A REALITY.
  
  You want in ??? or OUT ?
  
  † Isaiah 7 : 14 †
  "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."
  
  † Isaiah 53 : 5 †
  "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him;
  and with his stripes we are healed."
  
  † Isaiah 53 : 7 †
  "He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth."
  
  † Ezekiel 18 : 30 †
  "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
  
  † Zechariah 12 : 10 †
  "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications:
  and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."
  
  † 1 Timothy 1 : 12 - 17 †
  "And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all
  longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen."
  
  † Matthew 7:13-14 †
  "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
  
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  recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Please don't litter up the pages with your kiddies drawings and babble. Your 'glaring' error is to believe that saying it loudly or colourfully enough will give the empty words some meaning - all it does is make people sick. Put away your colouring book and just write what what you want to say. And scripture dioahrea is just so 'yesterday' all the other babblers have gone off to a scrip site somewhere where thay can impress each other by spouting nothing about nothing.
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Elijah, you would gain far more respect from people here if you stopped copying and pasting bible passages and instead expressed your views based upon what you believe to be true. Put some effort into your content rather than your colouring in, we are not impressed.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not LOOKING for any "respect"
  
  † Acts 10 : 34 †
  
  "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:"
  
  The Word OF God IS The Ultimate Truth
  
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your not looking for respect yet you are supposed to be a Christian and a representative of your god. You don't want to be respectful or get people to respect your beliefs or your god? Well, them you must not be a believer, you must just be someone looking to annoy people so that they won't want to feel compelled to listen to you and the word of god. Good job!
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Same old, same old lying word twisting. Taking Truth and trying to make out it's something different... Nice try - BAD ATTEMPT - Failed....
  
  satan beat you to it mate....
  
  Tried it on In The Garden..FAILED LIKEWISE...
  
  Just earnt The Old Serpent a ONE WAY TICKET to The Lake Of Fire..
  
  NO CHANCE OF ANY REPRIEVE - AMEN & AMEN.
  
  You wanna go there TOO....???
  
  Your choice....believe what you want...MY JOB IS DONE here....
  
  Bye bye....
  
  † Revelation 12 : 7 - 9 †
  
  "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
  
  † Revelation 21 : 7 - 8 †
  
  "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
  
  They don't teach you about THE SECOND DEATH at the university of perverse atheism DO THEY NOW ????
  
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can believe whatever fantasy you want bout god and the devil in your little story book but I would rather believe what is true, what has evidence, what is real, what is useful, what benefits mankind and all life on earth. I would rather believe in what works. You have nothing but a fantasy tale for which has been broken up into so many different versions it's become meaningless. Not to mention all the different other religions with different gods and stories on the world. How can you tell which one is true? Evidence is king. Evidence will lead you to the truth. And ye truth is the universe needs no god. Keep telling yourself you are right and that we are lying and twisting words. The only person you can convince that of is yourself and the choir. Not to mention I thought you were convinced you were not going to stop till you brought me proof that I was wrong and that your god and Jesus were right? You failed.
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  recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe I wasn't direct enough - why don't you take your multi-coloured babble somewhere else where they like superstitious nonsense. These forums are for discussion I believe, not religious spam.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you haver permission to publish Slayer album cover pictures?
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  TROUBLE-MAKER - IT'S NOT SLAYER ARTWORK - GOOD BYE.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  See ya around!
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Matthew 5:22
  
  But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  See I can quote the Bible too.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your bible holds no meaning for us. I have read the bible myself so it goes double for most of us that have. Reading them will not help your case. What happened to you trying to prove your fantasy to me as real. You failed. And you will fail with anyone who has critical thinking skills.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Art...my own critical thinking skills are THE REASON for posting in this Forum and elsewhere...
  
  You are FAR TOO HASTY in making FALSE judgments.
  
  Hasn't it DAWNED on any of you YET ???
  
  You have ALL made a HORRIBLE and TERRIBLE mistake...
  
  We ALL trust EXPERTS in various fields and professions to help us with whatever might be needed...
  
  Doctors, mechanics, computer technicians, airplane maintenance staff,
  the list is ENDLESS.....
  
  It REALLY is High Time you guys started TRUSTING Bible Experts....
  
  This is NOT just about "The Hereafter"...
  
  This is ALSO about "The Present Season" we are ALL involved in...
  
  THE Challenge to ALL people that this Forum Post has engaged, (those who are virulently OPPOSED)...Is VERY SIMPLE....
  
  Just TRY for a moment to REALLY THINK CRITICALLY - only In Reverse...
  
  JUST TRY Believing for "a very small season" and ASK THIS QUESTION :
  
  "IF i am WRONG, and The True Christian Bible Experts ARE Correct, what do i REALLY HAVE TO LOSE, by Agreeing with them and Admitting i AM wrong?"
  
  Conversely, (as right now), take the opposite view, and THEN CONSIDER this :-
  
  "What will i LOSE if they ARE Right and i CONTINUE to fight and oppose The Truth they Present, As Written?"
  
  Don't be TOO hasty here....take a little time to think this through CRITICALLY.....
  
  Is your opposition simply a blind knee jerk reaction BECAUSE of Pride and REFUSAL to admit error?
  
  Trust me Art, there IS NO SHAME AT ALL in admitting you are WRONG.
  
  On the VERY CONTRARY...This :-
  
  † Isaiah 11 : 4 †
  
  "But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked."
  
  † Matthew 11 : 29 †
  
  "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls."
  
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hasty? Hardly, you are no expert especially compared to many of us who have studied the bible and the claims. You have no critical thinking skills or grasp the concept of critical thinking.
  The only mistake we could make is living on faith. You can't just give blind trust to experts no matter who they are.
  If i have knowledge of the truth why would I even acknowledge your fantasy for which I know to be mythology believed by primitive peoples long ago used to explain what they were unable to explain? That's not critical thinking. You are arguing from ignorance.
  If you know for a fact that something is false would you continue to follow such an idea for fear or hope that it is right? That is ignorance beyond ignorance. Pride has nothing to do with anything, I believein things base on evidence and I examine and test all evidence presented to me for errors and willful misleading and willful ignorance. I would admit to being wrong if you could prove that I am wrong. I once had a different view towards the Big Bang idea due to lack of relevant evidence. I assumed that there was something before a big bang, a big crunch. I admit I was wrong and that before the big bang is an impossible statement to make since time didn't exist so there is no before concept... But I digress. If you have evidence I will listen I will examine and if there is no error I will concede but I will let you know when YOU are in error. I ask you the question. Are YOU willing to admit when you are wrong? If god was proven to be a human creation will you admit that you are wrong? Or is YOUR pride in the way? What would convince you that you are wrong? I doubt that you would admit to being wrong or even attempt to listen to proof of the opposite of your belief, here in lies your hypocrisy.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  OKAY Art - Challenge ACCEPTED ...
  
  Written around 1000 BC In The Book of Psalms WHEN God Through King David Revealed The Future In Holy Scripture.
  
  JESUS Is Born Through The Judaic Lineage of Joseph & Mary that STEMS Directly back Through King David :-
  
  † Psalm 41 : 9 †
  
  "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me."
  
  † Psalm 69 : 21 †
  
  "They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink."
  
  † Psalm 22 : 16 †
  
  "For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet."
  
  † Psalm 22 : 18 †
  
  "They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture."
  
  † Psalm 34 : 20 †
  
  "He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken."
  
  † Psalm 16 : 10†
  
  "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."
  
  † Psalm 68 : 18 †
  
  "Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them."
  
  † ALL THESE DIVINE SUPERNATURAL PROPHECIES WERE FULFILLED BY THE LORD JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF - SOME 1033 years later.
  
  As Follows :
  
  † judas iscariot BETRAYED The Lord when they sat at The Last Supper, and JESUS Gave judas the "sop" BREAD DIPPED IN SOUP.
  
  † Gall and Vinegar was OFFERED TO Christ ON THE CROSS, a rOMAN medicinal practise to EASE THE PAIN of The Crucifixion.
  
  † The Roman soldiers Cast Lots to see who would get his clothing (items of value in those days)..They split up the smaller items of clothing "parted his garments" - BUT His Robe was Woven IN ONE PIECE, so they couldn't DIVIDE THAT, so they gambled for it BY CASTING LOTS.
  
  † Hands and Feet PUNCTURED By The Nails On His Cross.
  
  † The Assemby of The Wicked - THE SANHEDRIN, cooked up the false charges and had Christ Crucified with the FINAL CONSENT of Pontius PIlate.
  
  † "Dogs" is a well known Hebrew synonym for INFIDELS, UNBELIEVERS, which the Jewish Sanhedrin MOST DEFINTELY WERE at the material time, OTHERWISE, they would Have ACCEPTED their MESSIAH had COME..
  
  † He was ALREADY DEAD when they came to break His Bones, (as was normal Roman custom to FINISH OFF The Crucifixion Victim).
  
  † JESUS Was ALREADY DEAD, so the centurion SHOVED A SPEAR IN HIS SIDE, Just to be CERTAIN....
  
  † His Bones were NOT BROKEN, unlike the others...
  
  † JESUS Then RESURRECTED, Because HE IS GOD AS THE MAN...
  
  † JESUS Then Ascended 40 days later and Took Control of The Universe, As The FInal Great Judge, AS PLANNED By His Father - JEHOVAH - Amen †
  
  ALSO :
  
  Written around by The Prophet Zechariah around 487 BC :
  
  † Zechariah 11 : 12 - 13 †
  
  "And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
  
  And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord."
  
  † Fulfilled PRECISELY by judas iscariot and the Sanhedrin in AD 33.5 to the LETTER....
  
  † The 30 pieces of silver was regarded by the Temple Jews as BLOOD
  MONEY...
  
  † The silver was used to purchase a burial plot for judas (AFTER he hung himself with such force his GUTS BURST OUT)
  
  † The field is The Potters Field, AKA Aceldama or Field of Blood used to bury strangers in.
  
  † Jeremiah was involved in the original land purchase some TWO HUNDRED YEARS before Zechariah and some 630 odd years before judas.
  
  Zechariah Goes ON To Prophesy this :
  
  † Zechariah 12 : 10 †
  
  "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."
  
  † SELF EXPLANATORY : First Born Son of God Crucifed and Lanced On The Cross - IN FULL VIEW OF THE SANHEDRIN †
  
  † JESUS offers Salvation By GRACE and SUPPLICATIONS to God FOR ALL who WILL BELIEVE - Amen †
  
  † Isaiah 53 : 9 †
  
  "And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth."
  
  † Isaiah Prophesied around 712 BC - Above IS The Prophecy Of JESUS being laid in Joseph of Arimathaea's New Tomb - JOSEPH WAS RICH.
  
  † Also, one thief next to Him On The Cross Wickedly DENIED Christ.
  
  † Isaiah ALSO Correctly Prophesied JESUS' Mother's Virginal State, AND that JESUS is God as The Man - Amen † HERE in 742 BC :
  
  † Isaiah 7 : 14 †
  
  "Therefore the LORD himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."
  
  † Immanuel is another name that means THE MESSIAH - CHRIST.
  
  † The Prophet Micah Prophesied JESUS' Birth town in 710 BC Here :-
  
  † Micah 5 : 2 †
  
  "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."
  
  † THERE'S A LOT MORE LIKE THIS..
  
  † Here's The Entire Essence Of The Lord Prophesied PERFECTLY in 12 simple Verses : (not copying and pasting these) BUT PLEASE DO READ, because this also IS The Closing PROOF you asked for :
  
  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … ersion=KJV
  
  Guess you WILL be happy this is ALL in Bold Black & White ONLY.
  
  † CONCLUSION : Only THE Supernatural God Could Orchestrate ALL THESE EVENTS, with such Divine Synchronicity over a thousand years AND MUCH LONGER...And PUT THEM IN WRITING IN ADVANCE SO THERE CAN BE NO ARGUMENTS....
  
  † THIS IS WRITTEN EVIDENTIAL PROOF POSITIVE OF THE GREATEST EVENTS IN THE HISTORY OF MAN...
  
  † QED & AMEN †
  
  <tos violating image snipped>
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are using the bible to prove the bible and god??? Really? That's like using Harry potter to prove harry potter and all that. You are really gonna have to do better than that since I have already read the bible and I am familiar with all of its "prophesy" claims. Sorry, you haven't convinced me that god is real or that Jesus is real or that the bible is anything but a bunch of nonsense that people who didn't know any better wrote about to explain things they didn't understand or to convince people of things they wanted them to do.
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  sen.sush23posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't be surprised. That's the way of justifying most religions...
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Never surprised.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you're going to try to justify something try doing it through something that you know shows evidence. Like the brilliance of a sun rise or sun set. Or the way snow glistens off of anything it touches making everything look serene and pure. Or Spring the way the snow melts and the new shows through. The beauty of flowers. Its a lot easier to believe that someone believes is something or someone when they are passionate and you can hear the excitement in their voices or that touch of wonder and a glistening in their eyes. Not some dry quotation.
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  sen.sush23posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know if you got me or if I am missing your point, but I want to say that I do agree to what you say. I just meant to say that often when we are pledging that we have heard God's word and know what he meant, (whichever religion that may be), we forget that he may have spoken in a different language to others. When one does vouch for any religion, one forgets that if God created man in his image, he also gave him the heavenly scope to chose him or deny him. So, if I am an atheist, I can tell you I am one and I don't mind if you find some solace in believing that this world was created by God instead of a Big Bang! But the believer must also allow me my space and my Big Bang theory. But that rarely happens. All the explanations of the metaphorical readings are dumped as undeniable truth on my head, so far even to enforce 'no abortion'. That's just how illogical the talk on theism can get; it will not even be exclusive of science.
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But you are not a bible expert.
  
  You merely copy and paste verses and repeat what your church minister told you they meant parrot style.
  
  You refuse to listen to any alternative views.
  
  You put you trust in English translations because you think that in them you have eternal life.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  WRONG - VERY WRONG INDEED - THAT'S WHAT YOU THINK !!!
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I reported your post for posting pictures of violence.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  THAT WAS NICE OF YOU - THE CRUCIFIXION IS A SPIRITUAL AND HISTORICAL FACT CENTRAL TO THIS FORUM THEME - AMEN
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Best post from Elijah ever. Keep up the good work.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That may be true, my friend, but you needn't post pictures depicting gratuitous violence. Plus, those images are copyrighted, and I suspect you don't have the rights or permission to post them.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Prove that Jesus is a historical fact and that the claims made by the so called experts are valid. Jut because someone claims to be an expert in something and affirms something happened they still need improve it as well. This goes for anyone of any belief in any field.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Proof is required for all claims, the proof required is that the bible has any validity to the existence of any of it's supernatural claims, stating that someone is wrong doesnt prove they are wrong either, it just makes you look like a zealot who will believe no matter what.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's POINTLESS giving you The Truth Art...
  
  You MINDLESSLY ARGUE for the sake of it...
  
  You are TOO STUBBORN to admit error...
  
  We are talking History & Prophecy interactively PROVING GOD...
  
  It's ALL IN WRITING above...
  
  You have NO MORE arguments left...READ ... (if you can)..
  
  EXAMPLE - ANALOGY :
  
  i throw a HUGE BRICK though your window.
  
  You come home and find The Brick and The Broken Glass.
  
  You then read about it the NEWSPAPER - small report.
  
  You write to the newspaper AND DENY THE WRITTEN REPORT...
  
  This is who you are MATE.....
  
  A serial DENIER OF FACTUAL TRUTH..
  
  The Brick is JESUS - The True Church and The REAL NOAH'S ARK FOUND...
  
  The newspaper report IS Holy Scripture....THEY MATCH - Amen...
  
  Go Figure .. SPOT NOAH'S ARK - Good bye ...
  
  † Genesis 1 : 25 - 27 †
  
  "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
  
  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
  
  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
  
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't mindlessly do anything, if you say something is true then you better have some evidence that says so, YOU DON'T, I'm not some idiot who goes around believing every hoax photo is true of Arks or Pterodactyls, especially if I have already in the past investigated such claims and found them to be hoaxes. You are using photos from a previously debunked hoax and are asserting it as valid??? HA!
  I admit errors all the time, I have yet to be shown to be in error by you and not one person here will agree with you on anything you have shown!
  Your analogy makes absolutely NO sense!
  Look man, you have yet to show me anything that has any valid credible evidence. NOTHING!
  Here is my "ANALOGY" I find a report and a miraculous event, I look up the people involved and find that some of these people have been involved in hoaxes in the past, I also look at the evidence they present, I find that they refuse to let someone of actual science share in the data or verify it, nor do they have any peer reviewed published papers, I dismiss miraculous event as hoax, years later you show me the same article I previously debunked.... what do I do? What would you do if you were in my place?
  Nothing you have said has any factual basis in REALITY! You live in a completely unverifiable fantasy world and when you are confronted with someone who doesn't believe your story or has shown you to be a fool, you call them a liar and lie in order to perpetuate your story as true.
  
  I truly feel sorry for you.
  Now if you would kindly leave me alone, I would like our association to end permanently, please leave me no further comments because I will view them (your continual SPAM) as harassment.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know... We see lots of Pterodactyls up here in Canada. They like the cold weather and tend to be rather friendly with the children. They are always after my dog though, that's a little problematic. They typically nest in igloos. Hold on I'll head outside for a picture. Too late it's gone, they're a little camera shy, they are all over the place, but no one ever gets a picture.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yup, we don't use planes here, we use pterodactyls like they did in the Flintstones. Do the Flintstones prove creationism?
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's right, but when we fly to the U.S. we have to dismount and get in one of them fancy metal birds so as not to upset our American buddies from the far south. My WIFI keeps going out because a polar bear is chewing the lines outside my igloo. Stupid bears, I'll send dino out the window after him. Remember when Dino could talk? Remember when all the kids would go home for lunch to watch the Flintstones? Can't do that anymore because to many of the little one got picked of by the Pterodactyls.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No wonder it takes so long to get through customs in Toronto...
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nope. Although my personality is a bit too emotional to have a purely scientific slant I like the fact that people who have completely logical perspectives exist. I like things like new medicines and technologies. In my opinion those who tend towards religion are simply too emotionally charged to have the patience and detachment needed for pure science. They also don't have the ethical crisis that occur when a scientific discovery runs counter to their religious beliefs... and it will happen.
  
  I will now pause while the religionists run to wiki looking for sporadic examples of religious scientists and their contributions.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You might get more response if you post this in the correct forum.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no. It's in the right place.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Only if you take disagreement with your chosen philosophy as hate or bias. Some people just see it as people having a different opinion. As nobody is born a religionist then you have to accept that your opinions are subject to disagreement. Its nothing personal.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Want to make a bet on that?
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  geordmcposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you want to make this personal?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah Cags... Wait... What?
  
  Yep telling someone a thread is in the wrong place is definitely personal... er... yeah.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not making it personal. That would be your own thoughts on this thread and not mine. So, please do try to refrain from interpreting my posts. Just read them.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So what exactly do you want to make a bet on and why?
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Given that hating Christians has become a new liberal pastime, I'd say it's in the right place.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hating Christians? As per usual, Christians love to suffer under their own delusion of the "persecution complex".
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No one's persecuting me, Cag, least of all, anyone on HPs.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's good. I'm glad LongHunter. Now, if you could just see past yourself long enough, then you would probably see that it's not "hate". But, good luck. You'll need it. Many of your posts lack awareness, which concludes you cannot see past yourself. Hence, this post pointing it out.
  
  And, if you're like them(the most common Christian), then you'll attempt to turn this post on me, but what you will fail to realize is that any further post in response will show something else about you which you're not likely to realize either.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When all else fails, lets start the personal attacks.
  
  You don't have anything else, do you, Cag?
  
  Your last sentence appears to be a threat.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yep I spend hours in self-loathing. If only I could give up being a liberal or a Christian I wouldn't have all this conflict. Flogging myself with a wet rope has gotten old.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you need help?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh... Kinky.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Might I suggest a different, less painful hobby? Knitting perhaps. Ceramics maybe.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I read a lot between floggings. I cook for fun too... that has the extra benefit of always having coarse salt around to rub in the wounds while I am thinking about how much the Christian side of me hates that I am pro choice or how the liberal side of me hates that I go to church.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It didn't take long for the pro-choice thing to come up but you might want to pick that fight with someone else. I don't agree with abortion, MB, but, unless it's mine, I don't believe I have a say in the matter. The rest I'll let the courts sort out.
  
  Yes, I've pissed off more than a few of my Christian friends with that stance.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It was a random example... I could have said for gay rights... for contraception... against school prayer etc.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Liberal"? Pass time? That makes no sense.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Love the Christian, hate the Christianity!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Probably - without all these pesky people who refuse to believe in majik - you christians could get on with your war with the muslims and get it over and done with.
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  To answer the question asked as the title of this thread, NO!
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hi brother...Got to disagree with you on this one...
  
  IF atheists WERE to See The Light, and Convert and Be Saved..the world would have a LOT more Christian souls, who would THEN be experts on how to defeat antichrist false arguments.
  
  This would DEFINITELY be a VERY Good Thing....and, more souls for Heaven and The Millennium First - Amen
  
  So the Lost world WOULD be a BETTER PLACE....
  
  However, As God Wills !!!
  
  In JESUS' Holy Name - Amen & Amen †
  
  † 1 Peter 4 : 17 †
  
  "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"
  
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You would still have lost even if all atheists were done away with.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  True...yet this Word below CAN Apply to ALL who have NOT Heard The Full Gospel yet :-
  
  † Acts 10 : 34 - 35 †
  
  "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."
  
  AMEN †
  
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, but it isn't just about atheists, it is about all non believers in Christ. It would be much easier to read your posts if you got rid of the color.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i LOVE Colour - makes everything so much more REAL - there's a Code in the colour choices if you look closely....
  
  Thanks....
  
  Maranatha...
  
  † Acts 28 : 25 - 31 †
  
  And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
  
  And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
  
  Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
  
  And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
  
  And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him."
  
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are just so obsessed with your fantasy you create these codes to make them feel more meaningful. Very sad.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If your myths were only true, however history disagrees with you, when religion ruled the world it was called the dark ages.
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  Titen-Sxullposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There's few enough atheists as it is. We're already scarce, make us any rarer and you'll have a better chance finding a Unicorn.
  
  I do love the Christian persecution complex though, as if unbelievers weren't hunted down and MURDERED for centuries or forced to convert by the swords of conquering Christian soldiers. What's the worst that we're doing to Christians, some atheists are insulting them on teh internets, OH NO, what's the world coming too
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  Eugene Hardyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I noticed the forum, hanging out on my Hub account like a sore eye. But I never commented on it, because I find that particular discussion to be unenlightening.
  
  So, why I'm here?
  
  First, to answer your question - no.
  
  Since Goddess created all things and all possibilities, we need atheists to do the messy job of non-belief. Atheists are people unable to perceive God, that is their role in existence.
  
  What I do not understand is why there should be an argument in the first place.
  
  What? Our isn't big enough for multiple levels of perception concerning our existence?
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  Capoeira Movesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No no, the better question is, why does atheist suddenly mean anti-Christ. It's ridiculous.
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  rebekahELLEposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think these threads highlight that is has nothing to do with whether someone is religious or atheist. It is more about perception and how people choose to see the world. When you continue to place labels on people, you're going to see the world in a different way than it really is. Realty is, after all, our own perception. As long as you see your world as christian/atheist, you will see what you see.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, because the world isn't fair. Life isn't fair. Jesus said that we would have trouble in this world.
  
  Remember that Jesus didn't preach that the Romans, or even the Sanhedrin needed to be fair.
  
  And remember that the reason that Christianity changed the world wasn't at the point of the sword or by getting the powers that be to be fair. It was by being loving and kind and gentle, just like Jesus.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, the crusades were very peaceful.... Salem witch trials... Manifest Destiny, Spanish Inquisition, the Dark Ages..... very peaceful times.
  
  Remember, Jesus is a myth.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A) Your history doesn't go back nearly far enough.
  
  B) No, He isn't.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A. It goes further back than your history and.
  B. prove otherwise.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If your history goes back farther than mine then why did you only quote the Crusades and the Inquisition? Christianity changed the world in the second century with love and bravery, not with a sword. Your quoted history doesn't go back far enough.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Christianity changed the world in the second century with love and bravery, not with a sword. Your quoted history doesn't go back far enough."
  That is a joke, because that is not the case at all, all the way back to Roman times when Christianity became huge love and bravery had nothing to do with it. In the beginning of Christianity it was small enough to be considered a cult, and cults can grow to become more acceptable into mainstream society (like Scientology), how popular or how fast a religion grows doesn't make it any more valid.
  State persecution ceased in the 4th century, when Constantine I issued an edict of toleration in 313. On 27 February 380, Emperor Theodosius I enacted a law establishing Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire.
  The most you have as far as arguing for the love and bravery is the first 300 years, once it became mainstream and imposed by government and one whose leader was himself Christian, the bloodshed propagated from the Christian side begins... arguably. The Bible itself, if it is to be taken seriously as a historic document has much bloodshed throughout, before the New Testament, after that, it portrays the people as being "sheepish" in more ways than one. But once Revelations hits, which you can argue has or hasn't passed but hasn't ever actually taken place or will ever, the blood shed continues. Not to mention that the first 400 years, if you the early Christians were truly following the Bible, Old or New, I doubt they even had one, since the Bible was taken from the Torah and the Oral traditions and manuscripts of questionable origins to create the first Bible.
  What the followers of this religion did at that time is not fully shown just what was done to them, but considering the nature of the Government at that time and the fact that Christianity was not the only religion that was not the state religion, I don't see any evidence or written history that would suggest your conclusions are anything but speculation and wishful thinking on the part of a faithful true believer.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, it's not!
  
  Not only do I agree with you 200% but I've said the same thing myself many times. Lots of people have wanted to claim the validity of Christianity based on how fast it grew, and I've said time and again, no, that's not a good measuring stick.
  
  "Arguably" would be an excellent word. Either you are too cynical (thinking that Christianity caused bloodshed) or not cynical enough (thinking that only Christians engaged in bloodshed.)
  
  BTW, don't discount the first 300 years. They are more inportant than you're giving them credit for.
  
  You're point? You think that's never acknowledged by Christians? If you do, then you have been talking to the wrong Christians.
  
  Again, your point? You accuse Christians of being like sheep...
  
  THAT would be arguing from ignorance. The fact is that the Bible, both NT and OT, has more copies and pieces of it than any other ancient document. We can and do have a better idea of what the original writers meant than with any other ancient document.
  
  Which conclusion exactly are we talking about?
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ""Arguably" would be an excellent word. Either you are too cynical (thinking that Christianity caused bloodshed) or not cynical enough (thinking that only Christians engaged in bloodshed.)"
  How about neither. I am saying man caused bloodshed using the Bible as an excuse since there are many places in the Bible that justify it, but as well many places in the Bible that condemn it.... as well as other excuses in other religions.
  The rational critical thinking atheists knows there is little to no rational for discriminating or violating anyone based on race, nationality, belief, gender, preference or mentality if that person is not himself violating anyone else.
  "BTW, don't discount the first 300 years. They are more inportant than you're giving them credit for."
  I don't discount anything. However I see many Christians unrealistically defending their religion saying it preaches only love and all I can ay is BULL@#$%!
  Talking to the wrong Christians??? You mean like yourself, or Elijah, or my entire family, or every priest, preacher, minister, religious leader that I have ever spoken with or the Bible? for which it contains in the first several pages all sorts of acts of violence and hate?
  "Again, your point? You accuse Christians of being like sheep..."
  ME??? Really? I don't. I never said that I said the BIBLE PORTRAYS Christians as being sheepish in the NEW TESTAMENT. I never accused you of being sheepish or all Christians as being sheepish... where you came up with this must be from prior conversations with someone else.
  
  "The fact is that the Bible, both NT and OT, has more copies and pieces of it than any other ancient document."
  And tell me are all these copies exact and word for word and interpreted the same in each version?
  Should I give you a list of errors? from each that make each different? The Bible is a book being used as a tool to control the masses as in reference "Religion is the opiate of the people"... is Christianity the oldest religion still in existence or the only religion in existence and are all these other religions based on Abraham? The answer to that is all NO.
  
  "Which conclusion exactly are we talking about?" You name it.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  YES
  
  † Luke 10 : 27 †
  
  "And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself."
  
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Preachy preachy and no one but other believers to care.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And that concept WILL be your eventual personal DOWNFALL, unless you REPENT - Amen
  
  † Revelation 22 : 14 - 16 †
  
  "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
  
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He used colors, so it MUST be true!!!
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Elijah, I am not into fantasies role playing games, especially ones that have gone on for 3000 years.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If that were true then only believers would be on these forums.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not true, when the believers confront the nonbelievers don't expect that the nonbelievers are just gonna role over and play dead.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If only believers cared, the nonbelievers wouldn't be in these forums.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Trying to twist my words I see. I am here to stand and be counted, do you understand what I mean? If everyone of one belief speaks up and no one from the opposite belief spoke up then everyone would think that everyone believes the first belief and no one believes the second. Helping to perpetuate (among the sheep) more of those that believe in the first belief without question.... my goal is to at least get people to question their own beliefs whether or not they change their mind is really of no concern to me.
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  Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have as little interest in twisting your words as I do in having mine twisted.
  
  Passion is a good thing.
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  Bill Aklehposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The world would be a better place if more people studies philosophy and therefore had a clear thought process on these issues.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I studied philosophy. I personally don't care for the philosophical masterbations of arguing from ignorance as to the nature of existence and our personal perceptions of reality.
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  Bill Aklehposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So people should argue and discuss things aimlessly without having sophistication? The main problem we have nowadays is too many people have to many opinions about topics of which they have never thought seriously about with the fundamentals of logic. You have people deciding on wars that have never thought of the fundamentals of ethics and many similar circumstances.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I you think none of those people have studied philosophy???? WOW!
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  Bill Aklehposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Has Obama studied philosophy at a high level? Or Bush? Or Clinton? Or Harper, Chretien and Paul Martin?
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  EinderDarkwolfposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  For future reference, presidents only have power to send troops into battle for the first 90 days in office. Declaration of War and other such things must be approved by congress. That's why Romney said one of his first acts as president would be to send our armed forces to help Israel. It's the only time he'd ever be able to do so.
  
  As for whether or not these people studied philosophy...well honestly every religious person thinks they know what philosophy is. Nevermind that they are two completely different things, mainly on the point that philosophy yields no answers, only more questions, which was it's entire point.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't know don't care and totally irrelevant.
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  sen.sush23posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  On the contrary!
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  On the contrary???? ...... Usually when someone says that they state the contrary and why it is contrary.
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  Rhonda D Johnsonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do unto others as they have done unto you. What an absolutely Christlike attitude. Keep talking.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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asheleyfriendposted 12 years ago
Wow! I think all religion is the problem. Its man's way of controlling each other through superstition and fear. Christianity, Catholicism, Islam, etc. You name it, its caused a war of some kind. Right now our entire world in on edge because of religious terrorism. Honestly, I don't see our world functioning much longer because of superstition, stupidity, and the off chance that you might offend someone. God forbid you say Merry Christmas and someone of another religion heard you. What happened to fredom of speach? I mean its not like we're throwing around racial slurrs or harrassing someone because of their sexual orientation. Why is it that it is socially acceptable to be anything but a Christian?
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geordmcposted 12 years ago
I agree with Asheley. Organized religion has caused more blood to be spilled than any other reason. From the Pharaohs of Egypt to todays religious fanatics it seems that "God" relishes blood.
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asheleyfriendposted 12 years ago
That is why I refuse to call myself a "christian". So many people have been killed in the name of "Christianity" that I don't know why anyone would want to associate themselves with that term. Its been perverted by hypocarcy and man's view of what they believe a "Christian" should be. The word Christian means to be "Christ-like" and I don't see anyone being "Christ-like" unless someone is watching.
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Longhunterposted 12 years ago
I started to post the same type forum you have here in response to the other forum but, if you look closer the question is "Would the world be a better place if there were fewer Christians? But more Buddhists?"

At first look, it appears to be an attack on Christians as is, for some childish reason, the "in" thing to do now days. But I quickly realized that forum wasn't necessarily an attack but rather the hubber's advocating Buddhism instead of Christianity. Unfortunately, the forum has degenerated into a Christian hate fest.

The way I look at it? Given what Christ did for Christians by dying on the cross, I can easily endure the childish whims of non-believers on a forum.

I'm a Christian and I believe person's religion or lack thereof is a very personal thing. Those that believe should not beat non-believers over the head to try to get them to convert anymore than a non-believer should put down a believer's beliefs.

It may sound overly simplified but "you do your thing and I'll do mine." I'll be happy and hopefully you will be as well.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I completely admire your stance on this issue longhorn. I hate the generalizing about my belief or lack there of. Also these other political labels are silly in connection as well. I don't hate Christians myself. I don't think any of us do. But we are willing to stand up against people and point out what we think is wrong with them if pushed. My entire family is Christian so to call me a Christian hater would be to miss the mark entirely.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well said. All the difficulties in these forums arise because a believer makes statements along the lines of, "my religion's view is right and everybody else in the whole world is wrong".
  
  NO ONE has the right to make that statement. Anyone who does make such a statement can't complain if others stand up for their right to disagree.
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jacharlessposted 12 years ago
Sigh . Atheism, it's the best marketing tool religion ever invented. Well, there is 3D glasses, but that is too long an explanation. {chuckle-chuckle}
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And religion is the best marketing tool that atheists ever had. In many cases the actions of those within my religion would make me turn atheist out of shame if I wasn't so sure of my faith... even then it's a close thing. I really don't like having to admit I am part of the same group that pickets funerals and bombs abortion clinics.
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Bleapin A Right, Melissa. Touche.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "sure of your faith"
  Interesting choice of words since you could be sure of anything. Does being sure of something make that something true?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  See questions like that annoy the crap out of me- especially when I haven't had my coffee yet. Such questions are couched with a vague air of intellectual superiority that... in this case... is both presumptuous and ridiculously misplaced. It assumes that not only do you understand the workings of my faith but also that I do not know the difference between my personal philosophy and universal truth. It's kinda insulting.
  
  But I'll answer you anyway. No -of course no- my surety does not make something true.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am sorry you feel that way, I can assure you that I don't feel any sense of intellectual superiority to anyone else, in fact if I did I probably wouldn't bother to comment. If I feel someone is very intelligent I am more likely to question them than I would someone I find or feel is less intelligent than myself.
  As far as your faith goes, I was raised a Christian, I was of faith until 20ish years ago.
  I am not presuming anything I can assure you and I mean no disrespect to yourself or anyone I confront... if I did you'd know it and it wouldn't be nice.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As opposed to self righteous esotericism claiming a fuller understanding of the Nonsense? That is what religion is.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And to think they questioned what forum I posted in! Hee,hee!
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ROFLMAO...
  
  And tell me exactly how someone would have to state a different opinion than yours for it NOT to be hate or bias.
  
  Or is everyone supposed to agree with you automatically?
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yep! Let the hate begin!
  
  Mention Christ or anything else Christian and they come out of the woodwork like cockroaches.
  
  The other forum went to three pages. Perhaps yours will do the same. I think I'll just sit back and watch. Let them get all worked up with their blood pressure shooting out their ears.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Or conversely we could be sitting back laughing at you... never can tell what's behind another computer monitor.
  
  I personally find it funny as hell for people to walk around thinking they are important enough for someone they have never met to hate them. Paranoid people are fun to play with...
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Threads that start out negative will invariable remain so.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is there anything other than a negative forum about Christians? It's the HP way.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And as we know, two wrongs always make a right...
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Now we're talkin'! Something we're both guilty of!
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  Capoeira Movesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow condemning a thread before it starts is quite awfully judgmental for positivity.
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Speak of the "devil", here is the poster child of that marketing firm. {chuckle-chuckle}.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oops - your religion is showing Jimmy boy. {titter titter, I know better than you titter}
  
  Oh - that is right - like all the other religionists - you say you don't have one.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know ... those how say they don't have one tend to have a pretty good grip on things. They tend to see things the way they are. But at the same time we're all hypocrites!
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geordmcposted 12 years ago
Look at the wars through history. From the crusades to todays terrorist attacks most are because of religious zealots trying to prove their version of "God" is better than yours.
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geordmcposted 12 years ago
It seems that people are going off topic, so here is an answer. The world would probably be a better place if there were more atheists. Especially in political office.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with the above but I would like to add as an atheist that if Christians actually followed the example of Christ and did not attempt to force their beliefs on others they would be great, unfortunately most do not, my respect goes to those who do.
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  Longhunterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps if atheists didn't judge all Christians by the ones they've encountered negatively, they'd realize not all of us Christians are 'Bible Thumpers."
  
  It's a two way street, Josak.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I just judge groups by what makes up their majority. Unfortunately the majority are not the kind of Christian I described.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If an atheist judges a Christian the christians have no one to blame but themselves. Majority of people that judge Christians usually have the right. The self-righteous hypocrisy is enough to drive people away and why shouldn't it? You walk into a church and everyone there turns their noses up at you just because they'd rather not associate with any one who just happens to walk. I don't know how many times I have walked into a church just to turn around and walk out. Majority of people who go to church are rude, self-righteous, and down right hypocritical! I don't know how many times I've had a genuinely nice person stop talking to me because they were afraid I would judge them when I said I believed in God. Some of the nicest people I've ever met have been atheists, agnostics, witches, and the list goes on. Not like Christians though. NO! They're self importance makes me want to punch them. No I find those who don't clame to be Christians are really the most christ-like people in the world. They're the ones that would rather selflessly do something for someone with out expecting any thing in return and the even greater thing is they're usually the people that give the bum on the side of the street the last dollar in their pocket whether someone is looking or not. If more Christians were actually christian and more people actually tried to look at others without persecution more people would believe in God. I find it pretty easy to see why others don't want anything to do with Christians.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Or God. I would be mortified by people's actions and I'm pretty sure God is.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I judge people by what they do and say no matter what belief they hold. Otherwise I question their belief and the validity of it. And any debate makes anyone sound like they are judging the whole but the fact is when someone brings up how great a group or groups perspective is you can always point out the bad parts of their history that show otherwise.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes but if you walked into a church and everyone prejudged you by the way you were dressed just because you were new and they turned their noses up at you and didn't speak a word of kindness wouldn't you turn around and walk out? I know I would and I have.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Of course, that is exactly what I am saying!
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  geordmcposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What is surprising is most atheists actually follow the example of Christ than do so-called Christians in the way they treat others. Atheists seem more willing to help out in tight situations. Whereas I have personally seen a "Christian" walk away from people, who are desperately trying to feed their children or find shelter for their families, with their noses in the air, thinking they are better than those looking for help.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ah! So true! You wouldn't have anyone pushing they're religious hypocritic view and damning you to hell if you didn't conforn. Your view of God is not mine and therefore you must die never mind the part about not killing people we only use that when it suits us.
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Sterling Sageposted 12 years ago
No, the world would be a WORSE place with fewer atheists. We tend to be caring people who think about the likely consequences of our actions before we act. Just like any other group of people, we have internal diversity, though.
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Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago
I believe that the ultimate will be a meeting of the minds.
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
Oh look... the thread got moved. Would a raspberry and a nee ner nee ner be inappropriate here?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Naw. It was the right thing to do.
  
  *right thing to do*- move thread to appropriate category. Proof positive it was in the wrong category to begin with, making the OP(opening post) and Poster wrong.
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Depends on whose opinions you want to flood this forum with.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well the HP folks don't want to think of it as hate speech.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow... I sincerely pray you never know what true hate speech is. You might learn something but I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  All i have to do is watch MSNBC. Plenty of it right there.
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Barefootfaeposted 12 years ago
Just to let everyone know I am a big fan of the joker in The Dark Knight. Like him I tried a little social experiment and it didn't disappoint. The progressives showed their atheism. Along with why I called it hate speech. Muffled a bit but hate speech.

Melissa dear there is coming a day when those liberal progressives are gonna look you in the eye and say choose. That's what happened to me and I made the right choice.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why would they do that? I realize that a lot of people confuse religion and politics but I don't... nor do I feel my religion should influence my political stance. I'm not sure why others feel it should. I can go on happily being both as they are mutually exclusive.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Trust me....whether you think I deserve it or not. It happened to me.
  People I have known for thirty years told me it was one way or the highway.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry but that sounds like you have made up your mind about an entire group of people based on your personal experiences. There is a word for that and it's very very close to prejudice... which is the first step towards hate and bias.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We don't or aren't supposed to learn from our personal experiences? Really? Sounds to me like you think those who don't believe in God are more reasonable than those who do. Which is it? Sounds like they will win the battle.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As long as you realize that your experiences aren't universal then yes by all means learn from them. Judging a group... in this case liberals... by your experiences only though is prejudicial. Sorry but that's kinda what the word means. And I believe that those who are emotional have a tendency to lean towards religion and those who are logical lean towards atheism. That's not a bad thing just two different ways of thinking. Those that are emotional tend to lean towards creativity while logicals tend to lean towards math too... once again not a bad thing just necessary for a functioning society.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is that not what happens to Christians? is there not a prejudice?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sometimes but not always. Christians have done some pretty destructive things in God's name. There is a certain degree of accountability in that. Reminding the group of those things is probably a good thing as those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it. I personally have experienced more prejudice from the Christian community on these boards than from atheists.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  On one level I can't really argue with you there. The whole crusades thing gets old when you take into account most of those folks were just looters of the East plain and simple and using Christianity as a shield suited them just fine. Just a sit suits our friends here fine to bludgeon us with it.
  You speak of emotion and that is what they are playing on when you get worried about it.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes the crusades argument gets old and I do roll my eyes about it... but then again there are some parallels... I agree that it wasn't really about religion but the fact that they were using religion to support their behavior was kinda similar to things going on today. And yes they were violent oppressive morons but they were OUR violent oppressive morons and we still have to own that. I too wish that it wasn't brought out ever single conversation but it is and it's still a valid argument. Although if an argument doesn't work the first thousand or so times you say it... then it really is kind of illogical to keep using it expecting different results THAT time.
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Some thing many fail to realize or know is that the Crusaders also killed Jews and Christians living around Jerusalem. Another thing is the Catholic Church bought farms from those who fought in the crusades and each soldier actually paid his own way from the selling of their own land.
  
  My personal opinion is that it wasn't really about religion at all but about greed of the Church and the leaders or generals of the crusades. it seems the leaders gained property and riches by the end of the first crusade.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I rather agree but the point again was they were Christians and they did use Christianity to defend their actions... Much like Christianity is being used today within the political realm to defend actions. See above gay rights scenario.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Similar things could be said about the televangelists and other "moral crusaders" who seem to be far more concerned about lowering taxes for the ultra-wealthy than anything else. It's no coincidence that most of these fraudsters vote Republican and encourage their flocks to do the same.
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This may come as a shock to you, but I agree as far as televangelists go. Most of them are out to fill their own bank accounts.
  
  Just for clarification, I have always been a registered democrat. I have voted for republicans at times. It is not always about cutting taxes for the rich, but always about the platform they build upon.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Very interesting statement. I'm from outside the U.S. and often wonder why Christians vote Republican when the party seems to go against the teaching of Christ except of course for abortion, but I'd like to know if Jesus ever spoke on that topic. It's the card the Republicans use to reach the gullible.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The ultra-wealthy are not large enough of a voting bloc. They are in coalition with the social conservatives, most of whom don't understand economics well enough to get that they're getting the raw end of the deal.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Re : The Crusades.
  
  As a Born Again, Full Gospel Christian Evangelist, typing from the uttermost end of the earth (Hong Kong) and Called Into HIS Ministry By a DIRECT Contact From God In Hawaii In AD 1985, got this to say, HONESTLY.
  
  My heritage is Cornish, Welsh, European & Hebrew as a British National.
  
  Had it NOT been for a degree of success in the 220 odd years of The Crusades....Which EFFECTIVELY STOPPED the islamic invasion of ALL of Europe and Britain, in THOSE days..
  
  There would be NO America today AS YOU KNOW America GOOD.
  
  The whole place would be speaking Arabic NOW, as would Europe and Britain.
  
  It would have been transformed into a "frozen in time" 7th century Arabian hell hole WILDERNESS.
  
  Computers would NOT exist.
  
  Telephones, televisions, radio, electricity, automobiles, ET AL would NEVER have been in Invented.
  
  (The FOOL hath said in his heart that JESUS Was Not Crucified for our SINS)
  
  Air Travel would NOT have been invented, nor the Printing Press.
  
  There would have been NO Age of Reason.
  
  Countless multitudes would have joined the other countless multitudes IN HELL, because there is NO Salvation OUTSIDE the Life, Crucifixion & Resurrection Of The Lord JESUS Christ Himself, since islam DENIES The Crucifixion Of The Lord EVER EVEN HAPPENED.
  
  It's easy to be "wise" in hindsight....
  
  Using Reason, consider THE ABOVE, and ALL the Global Blessings God hath BESTOWED upon the earth TODAY, Through Christendom TRUE.
  
  The LORD God Hates Wickedness and FIGHTS AGAINST IT...
  
  The Current War on TERRORISLAM - Main Case to Point.
  
  JESUS is Grace and Mercy, Love, Peace and Truth...
  
  HOWEVER, don't MESS With His Father - His Name was NEVER allah.
  
  He WINS The War IN THE END....
  
  Amen & Amen
  
  † Isaiah 42 : 13 †
  
  "The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies."
  
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  EinderDarkwolfposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yet another Christian seeking to rip and tear at a society they don't understand nor do they want to. They are different so they deserve to be annihilated, that's the entire jist of your post here right?
  
  For the record, If they had wanted to, the Islamic nations would've taken out all of Europe. The crusades were a war of who should possess Jerusalem, nothing more, nothing less. Even still, Christians were not able to take Jerusalem back after hundreds of years of war. It ended in a truce instead.
  
  As for America, I don't know how "Good" it is anymore. Those who fled from religious persecution are now doing the persecuting. Both with the law and without it. However, whether or not it would've been here, is not something to question. America came about because of a man's search for a better trade route, one that was safer from bandits at the time.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Also it's because there is no room for it in their new world. Listen to them here . That's what you hear.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No the most prevalent thing I hear is they hate having the rules of someone else's faith pushed on them... which I completely sympathize with. Religion should have nothing to do with politics or law making. The second most prevalent thing I hear from them is that religion is not logical. That is also true. I'm not seeing where you think the hate speech is...
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Religion has always had to do with politics and lawmaking world wide.
  What do you think of those who say that Christians should lose their right to vote? Yes there are those who say that.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think they are just as irrational as those who think that the bible should be used to make laws. I've never seen that statement on these forums though.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You know I haven't seen it specifically on HP either. You are right. It is out there however. There are much more hateful atheists than the folks here and I do apologize to them if they think I used them. I just felt an opposing forum was only right.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yet they want to push their atheistic ideals on me and mine. Like I said I have heard talk of making it so Christians have not the right to vote.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No not really. I'm sure some do but in general you are stating your opinion and they are stating theirs. You say God is unquestioningly real and they say he isn't. I'm still not seeing hate speech. By the way saying Christians shouldn't vote is also not hate speech. Its an opinion. A stupid one but an opinion nonetheless.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Also rather dangerous and sad if they were to get their way. More likely now than a generation ago.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  They wish to marginalize me and others.....including you....for our beliefs alone. That isn't a prejudice?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Like I said I've never directly experienced that. I've had a few that have assumed my viewpoints from me stating that I was Christian but then I discussed it with them and they were actually quite respectful. So I guess you are sort of right in that there was a knee-jerk reaction... however most of the things they have problems with don't really apply to me. If they are right about a stereotype though then they argue because that stereotype is what makes them object to Christianity. I don't know if that made sense or not...
  
  An example: Many gay rights advocates have issues with Christians because so many groups are anti-gay in Christ's name. I am for gay rights so no problem exists with that group. However if I were to be anti-gay then the problem would exist... not because of my religion but because of the political issue that my religion would cause. If I gave my reasons as specifically being biblical then there is no choice but to attack those beliefs on a religious level as I would be using religion to support my view. Does that make sense?
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes....I suppose it does.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And the people who say that are just as stupid as the people who think it's OK to tell my friends and family they cannot marry if they are gay or cannot research stem cell medical options that save lives because of their own religious beliefs. Religion is a personal belief and choice and as I have stated earlier in this thread and elsewhere I have no problem with religious people unless they force their faith into my life and deny other people rights and liberties, that is the distinction between belief and oppression.
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Speaking from the calmer side of the pond, I had to Google liberal progressive to find out what one actually is. What's liberal progressivism got to do with religion anyway? From what I read, it's about reallocating weath via the tax system, and government legislating on how business is conducted. Whooppie Doo!
  
  Why does the Christian Right (who believe that God is a Tea Party voter) think that the Left want to put them in a concentration camp?
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Johnathan L Groomposted 12 years ago
the "world" is ruled by religion in some countries...
the "world" being the U.S., however,...
diversity- the "world" has a spectrum of it...
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Ron Montgomeryposted 12 years ago
The world would indeed be a better place with fewer atheists....and Christians, and Muslims, and Jews, and Hindus, and Buddhists, and Zoroastrians, just fewer humans period.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think an ape named Caesar expressed similar sentiments.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't laugh man, it could happen. My chimp's been givin' me some funny looks this week.
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asheleyfriendposted 12 years ago
For those that think religion and politics are on different sepctrums you are so wrong. 90% of the time religion and politics go hand in hand. They feed off of the other like peresites. Pushing both political and religious agenda has been the mark most politicians have left on the world. You see it everywhere. I murder you in the name of God and politics and you better get over it and accept it. You didn't conform when given the chance better to die with dignity than to fight and most people continue to fight dragging out the war of religion and politics. So yes this world would definitely be a lot better. Its usually atheists that work selflessly to better the world while the people that should be doing it are the ones that are picking up guns against each other. Religion just turns people into blood thirsty barbarians.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's because religion is a tool used by politicians throughout history to control the people. If there were no religions and people thought critically we would all be free.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  yep.
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Motown2Chitownposted 12 years ago
Heavens to Betsy! Here we go again. Folks, the world population currently consists of those who worship God, worship gods, don't believe in G/gods, aren't quite sure about the origins of the Universe, are convinced they are the only ones who know the ACTUAL origin of the Universe, who believe that there is more than one universe, who believe that Earth is the only planet that sustains intelligent life, who believe that there is life on other planets - and they're FAR more intelligent than we are - Then there are those who think homosexuality is okay, and that it's part of how we're made, those who think it's a choice, and unreservedly believe it's the wrong one. There are those who think two men, two women, or two goldfish should be able to marry, and those who think marriage is only between one man and one woman - those same people believe it's okay to divorce and remarry as many times as you wish with no spiritual consequence. Those who believe abortion is okay, those who believe it's murder, those who believe it's murder but that it should NOT be made illegal.

Do you get it? Eventually it stops being a harmless, hypothetical question and truly becomes nothing less than hate mongering - on all sides!

There are lots of different people in the world. If we're all about wondering if we'd be better off with less of some and more of the other, eventually someone will start (or continue) taking action and we'll wind up with a planet devoid of human presence.

FFS, people, leave everyone alone and let them believe - or NOT - the way they choose.
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  Eugene Hardyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Excellent response.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  While it is an excellent response this not about getting people to believe or not believe. We're just expressing our oppinions.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "leave everyone alone and let them believe - or NOT - the way they choose."
  I would do that but if you don't stand up and voice your views and why then you give room to the opposite view being true and people enforcing their rules on those that don't support such rules... so what do you do? You first voice your opinion, you make a case for your opinion. Why do you believe your opinion is right?
  If people who were against others beliefs weren't so outspoken about it I probably wouldn't be doing what I am doing. Think about this. If you are Black and people are of the majority opinion that blacks should be slaves, but you know it's wrong and you do nothing because it's just your opinion and everyone has a right to their own opinion.... you basically said slavery is okay by not saying anything.
  I am saying that I believe based on evidence and critical thinking, and people who don't at least base their beliefs on critical thinking and evidence are dangerous.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh. Good analagy! Its true. If you have an oppion about something and do nothing about then reguardless of whether you believe something is wrong or not you are condoning those actions. That means if you didn't voice your oppinion about violence or murder there would be no laws in place protecting those victims.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Bingo!
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qeylerposted 12 years ago
Atheism is the easiest thing to understand. You look round this world and see the worst people prosper. You see parents who did every thing for their kids dumped in homeless shelters and those who couldn't care less about their children honoured and supported until death. You see liar and cruel people gain accolades and those who are good suffer. So the idea that there is some kind of mind or control or entity beyond the three dimensions that we see who can do something about it tends to make the atheist believe that, "if there were a G-d, then these things wouldn't happen. Hence they happen because there is no G-d"

There is no way around it. There is no way you can prove or disprove. The question is this; if one is an atheist why does he/she feel the need to proselytise his or her non-belief?
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You've kind of got it wrong, atheists aren't atheists because of the negative aspects of life on Earth for humanity. Take myself for example, I am an atheist because of the things we attribute to God not actually being of God. If you tell me God caused something I would investigate the actual cause and I would find something other than God, so why would I believe that God was the cause? Faith is the only answer to why someone would believe in God, but to the majority of atheists, we don't attribute the unknown cause of something to a supernatural force.
  
  As per your question, most atheists are tired of hearing that God was the cause of something when we know that is false, so we feel we are being lied to constantly and forced to be subjected to laws written in the name of a God that we know does not exist. So why would we not educate you as to the opposite... however "proselytise" is not the proper word, since that refers to faith and religion.
  proselytise - convert to another faith or religion. proselytize · convert - cause to adopt a new or different faith.
  We don't believe by faith we believe by evidence. If something is not known to us we simply say it's not yet known, however, you assert that God did it.
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Ryan-Morganposted 12 years ago
Atheists are the solution, not the problem. Think, if all the Atheists were religious, you'd have more Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc. which would only lead to more conflict.

Religion isn't united, whereas irreligion is.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Atheists are united?
  
  And people of different religions are incapable of getting along with each other?
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Atheists aren't united bu I have never seen golden rule atheists and humanitarian atheists killing each other over whose version of atheism is better.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, atheists aren't killing on behalf of their lack of belief. But other non-religious ideologies are just as dangerous, as Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot make clear.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and Hitler and Mussolini and that's true but religious people can be part of non religious evil causes too, so while atheists do evil things in the name of a cause so do religious people, but atheists don't do evil things in the name of religion and religious people do.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's true, but what difference does it make? Is religiously-motivated violence worse than non-religious ideologically-motivated violence? The problem seems to be violent ideology, not whether it comes from religion or somewhere else.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It just means that atheists have less reason/motivation to engage in those evil acts therefore less atheists does not equal better.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know if that's true. Does that mean that someone who rejects communism is also less likely to commit violence? It seems it only takes one bad ideology to poison someone's views and provide justification for bad behavior.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The problem with "But other non-religious ideologies are just as dangerous, as Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot make clear." is that they aren't based on any sort of philosophy whether it be religious or irreligious... you could argue that the so called irreligious movements are religious but the fact is these were totalitarian power grabs not conflicts of world views like say The Crusades, or Manifest Destiny. I have yet to see an actual atheist do something in the name of a cause that was evil, especially one whose basis for belief was scholarly rather than an emotional bitterness to an experience. Especially when you try and make the comparison with statistics, why would a religious populace follow an atheist cause?
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Refer back to my examples of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao. All atheists, all did unspeakably evil things. Their motivation wasn't atheism - there is no atheist ideology, it just means lack of religious belief - but they were motivated by other ideologies that did not value human life. The Crusades and Manifest Destiny, by the way, were motivated by greed more than anything else; is that a religious value?
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "but they were motivated by other ideologies that did not value human life." Greed. Atheism was not a reason for their actions or an excuse to do what they did.
  
  Religion is rarely a motivator, it is merely a justification for the actions of the greedy, religion is the opiate of the people.
  "is that a religious value?" Depends on what part of the religion you are referring to.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Atheism is not an ideology or a belief system. Some atheists can be ideologues, but their ideology is not atheism.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Atheism is not an ideology or a belief system."
  
  a·the·ism
  [ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
  noun
  1.
  the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
  
  Some dictionaries and people will disagree with that. Are we really gonna debate this? Atheism doesn't have anything to do with any assertion other than the idea that God is fictional. People who claim to be atheists are not doing harm because of this ideology. However, the religious are motivated by ideologies that assert religious ways of life and how to deal with those that are not a part of that way of life.
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  Eugene Hardyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  All atheists?
  
  Isn't that, ah, a little broad?
  
  There are, at least some atheists, that are humanists, that believe a human based philosophy as being more beneficial than any religion, more empowering.
  
  Another problem I have with your statement is the character of your argument, that it encourages nonconstructive confrontation.
  
  The statement is of the same character of some of those Christian fundamentalism arguments for the conversion of folks to their religion.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, if you think I was talking about all atheists. I said that Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, all 3 of them, were atheists.
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  Eugene Hardyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I wasn't talking about those tyrants, just everybody else that identifies themselves as atheists.
  
  Especially of the humanist variety.
  
  So, is the planet better off without atheists?
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good Question, Mr Hardy. That is yet to be revealed. But, I can say with much certainty, the planet is/will be much better off without humanists/humanism.
  
  James.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No. (IMHO) I think it would be better off without ideologues, of all religious and non-religious varieties.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can't associate all Atheists with Stalin just like you can't associate all Christians with Hitler.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't.
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asheleyfriendposted 12 years ago
Even though I believe in God I HATE the perversion of religion. I HATE the double standards and I hate that we can't see past pointing our fingers at everyone else and saying that they're to blame. So as I said earlier the world would be better with less Christians and less religious people. Atheists don't see things the way religious people do. They see things as they are and as they should be.
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Elderberry Artsposted 12 years ago
I don't believe in a god but I have nothing against anyone who does. Maybe it's simplistic but I believe the world would be a better place if we were just nicer to each other regardless of being part of different religions, races etc. These are just small parts of who someone is, it makes no sense to me to hate someone based on such.
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  christin53posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't normally get involved in religious debates but I have to agree with you. Why can't we all accept we have different beliefs and just be nice to each other.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In a perfect world...
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Perfect world not required, but an Educated world would be nice.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah good luck with that. This world is filled with needless superstition 90% of the time.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, like the foolish human created need to believe.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So what are YOU if not a foolish human?
  One eyed one horned flying purple people eater?
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  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That was clever.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And original too!
  
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ahaha!
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Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago
The problem with atheism is that eventually, you will logic yourseves right out of the 'true human feeling' gig. NDE's for instance (Near Death Experiences) are said to be caused by electro-chemical reactions in the brain occurring as the individual flatlines. Love is only electro-chemical reactions in the brain. So is compassion, sympathy/empathy. Eventually, atheism would make us less than human, justifying what most of you have come to think is 'reality' when all it really is, is a step towards barbarism and away from the path towards true civilization that we have tread since we have been mankind.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That last bit is hilarious. Let's look at secular countries and compare them to non-secular countries and compare which one are more barbaric. How about the U.S. a few hundred years ago when slavery was justified by the bible or a few hundred years ago when Christian ran Europe. One could get beheaded for noticing that other planets had moons. Or perhaps Iran where an adulteress gets stoned to death. I think we are headed in the right direction. It wan't long ago when delusions were thought to be the devils work. Now Schizophrenia is teated with medication. It is good to understand what and who we are.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Rad man lives up to his name!
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  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Non Secular: As in the former Soviet Union? How about N. Korea...Red China? How about Cambodia under Pol Pot? One also has to consider if christianity is actually following their leader. Hell, they still don't have a clue what he was talking about. I talk and talk and talk to to Raddy boy, and you don't seem to be able to cobble anything together beyond your preconceived notions of what I'm saying. Selective reading?
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Secular - meaning a separation of church and state like Canada and the U.S.A for example as compared to Iran and Saudi-Arabia. I read everything you post and I acknowledge that you seem to be honest as am I and that you complain about. Okay.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As far as atheism making us less than human, I don't believe so. Science is gonna explain to us what it means to be human without all the fantasy ideas about NDE and ghosts and "transcendent" states of emotion. You don't want to know what causes them, that is fine but it isn't taking away from the experience of human emotion. I know what they are and are not and that makes it no less special for me.
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  scottcgruberposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think it already has. It has demonstrated that we are the products of a 3.8 billion year long process of descent with modification from the earliest proto-cells, and share a molecular kinship with every other living thing on the entire planet. We are made of elements that formed in the heart of a dying star and came together by gravity to form a habitable planet, an apparent rarity given our observations of exoplanets. We are the descendents of the fittest and best-adapted, our great-great ancestors surviving numerous population bottlenecks and mass extinctions. And then over the last five million years or so, a gradual series of mutations gave us the grasping ability, linguistic dexterity, and cognitive ability to be having this conversation and pondering the universe around us.
  
  I can't think of anything more spiritual than that.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is nothing spiritual in your well articulated description of how we got here.
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. As much as folks hate the Creation there is this thing some of them have that says there are like these cosmic dice that roll and roll and when they hits sevens something changes for the positive.
  
  That is science fiction I think and I love science fiction but I don't believe it's why we are here. No one has yet explained how we got something from nothing which of course we didn't but they don't have the ability to tell you where the original mass came from.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just because we don't have all the knowledge it doesn't God did it. It just means we don't know. I idea that God did it creates more questions. If God did where did he come from?
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well that's a good question. i would rather ponder the question than disregard it outright.
  Matter existing before the big bang means one of two things:
  A.There was something before the big bang or:
  2. Someone or something put it there.
  
  It's like walking into your kitchen and finding a plate of cookies....you know they didn't just happen. Someone made them.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Both are assumptions based on everyday man made objects. Arguing from ignorance means just because you don't know how something happens you assign something to it with out knowledge that this something was the cause. Like saying a ghost is the cause for the bumps in the night.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's more like looking at a blade of grass and wondering how it got there. We don't assume someone put it there. We look for seeds.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, you just don't understand scientific equations and theories enough to recognize truth from fiction. Do you understand the theory of anti-matter and how it can suddenly offset matter and vice verso? Not too difficult to understand if you have an open mind, but then, most believers do not possess such faculties. Mainly because they have been taught their beliefs at a very early age. What about you? How old were you when you became a believer, and did you inherit your religion from your parents?
  
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was like twelve and no I was pretty much the spiritual person in the house and that was pretty insulting and possibly sexist.
  
  And no you can't get something from nothing.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You absolutely can get something from nothing, matter and anti mater appear and disappear at random intervals at the quantum level, this is observable scientific fact. The creation of the universe has several good theories to explain it and one predominant one which is definitely possible and certainly a lot better than "god did because a book says so".
  
  We don't know how the universe was created but we do know there is at least one method that requires no god.
  
  And still that question, what created god?
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know Josak and you just admitted all you have are theories.
  Of course our friend thinks the best way to instruct someone is to belittle them and be a jerk. A really common trait amongst the atheist community.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And you are assuming theories cannot be proven and are just assumptions. You are using a computer to spout your nonsense here. Do you believe the theories used to design it,or are they merely guesses as to how computers work? Does this tell you theories are not merely opinions and have a basis in fact, unlike religious opinions? Probably not as you seem to feel those in disagreement with your vast knowledge and wonderful education are merely "jerks."
  
  And you are indeed wrong about my beliefs. I'm agnostic, not atheist. I have an open mind towards knowledge. Something alien to you, I'm sure.
  
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Randy I wouldn't call you a jerk were you not being one. Must be the first time a Christian ever turned on you. And yes Christ did the same thing.
  
  I know full well about this computer. I am a techie.
  I also know that your theories are theories and as your friend Josak was kind enough to admit they may be wrong. I don't dismiss them out of hand. I know there is a process of selection which differs a bit from evolution. It is demonstrable I just don't happen to believe that is why we are here.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So I am a jerk because I disagree with you? So do you believe the computer theory? Or is it bad because scientists said it would work? Do you understand exactly how your computer works and accept the theories concerning it are true? or do you believe some god is actually making it work and the scientists are taking the credit for it?
  
  So, what did I say to you that made me a jerk? Please point out the particular post if you don't mind.
  
  And feel free to point out the "process of selection which differs a bit from evolution" since you are aware of it and it is, as you say, "demonstrable." I'm all ears..er..eyes!
  
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ok let me show you how you are being a jerk.
  
  You find out I;m a Christian and suddenly I am in denial about anything else in the world. I am a tech. I work on computers and networked equipment. It's very and I do mean very insulting how you automatically assume complete illiteracy just because one is a Christian.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not because you are a christian, but because you apparently don't understand scientific methods nor theories. And I never said you were completely illiterate as you are obviously reading my posts. So now, explain how computer theory works and how because it is "just a theory" we should ignore its importance to our world.
  
  And by the way, merely because theories exist it doesn't mean they haven't been proven. Because you seem to think a theory does not indicate truth just because they are theories. And I'm still waiting on your stated personal beliefs about evolution. This ought to be good! And feel free to refer to me as a jerk if it makes you feel better about your religion. Hey, isn't that considered judging others? I think there's something in your guidebook about that being a sin, isn't there?
  
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh my you are a Bill Maher fan and no one has any intelligence if they don't follow the liberal progressive prescribed theory of evolution! Ha!
  
  As we have seen there are various viruses and such that are becoming immune to our antibiotics. That is natural selection. Wonderful. But I don't believe that's why we are here and I'm not playing games for you ok?
  Darwin wrote a book to explain why he believed there were black people. Or did you not know that's what it was about. I am from the area of the world where they ahd the trial.. i know whereof I speak.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently you do not care if you are wrong or not, because you keep saying things which are not true. I do not follow Maher at all, so there's another falsehood to add to your growing list. What kind of christian are you now? Which cult do you follow, by the way? With the falsehoods and insults you direct towards me I'm curious as to what teachings of Jesus you adhere to. And it is no surprise you never answer questions and merely insult those who dare to do so. Baptist?
  
  So far, I'm not convinced you do know whereof you speak, especially about science and evolution. Which book are you referring to by Darwin, and did you actually read it? If you are from the area where the Scopes Monkey Trials were held, I can certainly believe that.
  
  And you are correct, you are not playing games with me. You'd be better off if you were merely "playing" instead of attempting to appear knowledgeable about evolution and the theories behind the science of our being here. Instead, you have your old novel to tell you all about how much better your beliefs are than those of others. Lucky you! Stoned anyone lately?
  
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are an extremely insulting individual and I can see why you were banned as you have no personal skills whatever.
  I belong to an independent Christian church which is not a cult...except of course to you.
  I am not certain how much more of anything you deserve in the way of explanation not to mention the fact that I am unsure who gave you the idea you were entitled to one.
  I am a Christian and I am a modern woman. That may be your stumbling block is you are unable to accept a woman in a technical field.
  I mentioned Bill Maher because you use the same tactic whereby if the individual doesn't adhere to the doctrine of evolution they have no credible opinions.
  
  Imagine the finger I am holding up.
  
  Now sit on it and rotate.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  :lol:As far as I can tell, you are the one insulting me on this forum. I've called you no names, while you've referred to me as a jerk several times because I disagreed with you. And because I've been banned before, I can tell you, you have already committed several violations worthy of being banned for.
  
  Personal attacks are against the TOS and some people here are ban happy anyway. Your insults however, do not bother me at all. I was raised in a Southern Baptist Church and have long grown immune to the rantings of irate christians. Your insults are strictly amateurish compared to those I endured until I was old enough to get away from them. So rant away O Chosen One!
  
  There was never any doubt you were a christian woman. I was also unaware I had a stumbling block. I don't have to accept a woman in a technical field either. I also don't recall saying all of your opinions were incredible. In fact, you've given very little in the way of any proof or evidence of anything you seem to be angry about, other than you don't like me. So, big deal.
  
  Now see your last quote. I would get banned for saying this to you. But this is when your being a woman is to your benefit. You can get by with it.
  
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Here's the reality of how it shakes out with people. As you can plainly see, there are even people who don't attend church who believe in Creation.
  
  http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold- … igins.aspx
  
  Now maybe you could educate them if you grew some people skills. That would involve evolving.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ignorance is not really reserved just for some church goers. The US has a higher rated of believers in creationism than most other countries in the Western world; Turkey is the only one higher.
  
  In Canada 22% believe in creationism, in the UK it's also 22%. HubPages is an international community, you should be careful just assuming everyone is American.
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  recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Where do these figures come from ?? Clearly the US has a high proportion and maybe Canada, but I find it hard to believe there are so many clinically stupid people in the UK !!
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I found them on Wikipedia...and they have sources
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism#Prevalence
  
  22% is a lot better than 45%... Canada and the UK have always been slightly more rational that way... I agree, I still think 22% is too high.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, easy one Canada there buddy. Canada's rate is lower than the U.S.'s
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And equal to the UK
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I never said all of the uneducated people went to church either.
  
  Another christian characteristic. Being able to tell the skills and accomplishments of other people without knowing anything whatsoever about their personal lives. Wow! I am amazed at the powers you have in your cult...er....coven...er church.
  
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  scottcgruberposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You don't need to be a Bill Maher fan to know that. It's just a basic truism. If you don't believe in evolution, chances are that you're either unintelligent or ignorant. Probably both.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Closing the mind to things which goes against a christian's beliefs is a common tactic promoted by fundamentalist christian cults. They are taught this at an early age by the preachers and other church leaders to maintain control of the cult members. As you can see, it works fairly well for many such adherents. Thankfully, education is making inroads into quelling such mind control over our children.
  
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  Jane Bovaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Or you have an emotional need to believe otherwise.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Everything is a theory, you know theory of gravity etc. no scientific concept is ever anything other than a theory because it could turn out to be wrong, it's a method of intellectual honesty, of course theories are stronger and weaker depending on how much evidence they have behind them and by that measure creationism is worth nothing at all since it has no evidence whatever.
  
  When I say I have theories on how the universe was created I am being honest, if you say that you have anything other than a theory on what created the universe you are lying. We both have theories, it's just a matter of who has more evidence...
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I suspected you were indoctrinated into your beliefs early on. I also suspect you don't have the education to understand the theories of the origins of life on this planet, nor how it could come to be. I would also surmise quantum physics is not something you have studied enough to understand even if it were explained to you. But then, believers often ascribe events to god they don't understand because of ignorance of the subject.
  
  But feel free to prove me wrong with your assertions you are acquainted with the sciences if you care to do so. I'll be glad to listen to your accomplishments.
  
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I can tell you, or at least I can tell you the leading theory on that at the moment. Matter can be created it happens all the time at a quantum level, most people are just not interested enough to read and stud the new physics breakthroughs. If you want the full description just say so, otherwise I won't bother because it takes like five minutes to type.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't waste your time. One must have desire to be educated before a teacher is required. There is plenty of information out there for those who honestly look for it. Most believers do not seek reality in my experience.
  
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  Barefootfaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Look...you are a jerk.
  
  Yes I am assuming there was a vacuum....not the cleaner the space....and that there was nothing there to interact on. You have to have mass to have gravity. i think the scientific community has worked feverishly to come up with something from nothing so as to try and be credible.
  
  As for Stephen Hawking even he has backpedaled before.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Very christian of you to call me a jerk for disagreeing with you. Typical of your cult to do so. I could report you for making a personal attack, but I had rather you keep stating foolish things as you hurt your cult's reputation much more than mine. Keep up the good christian work!
  
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You all should really watch curiosity with Stephen hawking on YouTube. It explains how something CAN come from nothing.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Slavery is not justified by the Bible. Those morons that didn't catch it while translating it forgot to change the face that The Bible says "let not any man be endebted to another man for her will surely be a slave to that man". You forget to change that but change everything else and when its too late to fix your mistakes you tell everyone that you cannot read the Bible but have it read to you. All needless superstition to push an agenda and keep the masses blind and living in fear of the people that were supposed to guide and protect.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Slavery was justified by the bible to those who chose to do so. They may not have been right in doing so but that does not chance the fact that they used the bible to justify slavery. I can show you scripture all day that condones slavery and you can say that it's a bad translation but the does not change the fact that the bible was used to justify slavery.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The bible at several points and pretty clearly not only tolerates slavery but sets out how it should be conducted, saying it's a bad translation is a bit of a stretch.
  
  However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
  
  When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
  
  Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, I have a whole hub on the subject. You are preaching to the choir.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah I read it and enjoyed it, I was not preaching to you, or preaching at all but rather agreeing with your comment and adding some evidence.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No it was not bad translation. It was deliberate.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm saying most of the bible was changed to fit what man thouht God was, what women should be, and as a way of keeping people who were less than what they could have been in check. What better way to rule the masses than to make most of the people who believed slaves. There is no way any book as philisophical, theological, political, and so beautifully written went thousands of years without being changed to suit what man thinks it should be. The Vatican will now admit that they decided what books went into the Bible. That they deliberately took a book out of it because it was not only written by a woman but that it has intamate details that the other books did not have. Lets just say it was a religious woman's diary.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'd read that.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Marque de Sade wrote the most beautiful things about the most horrible things, I don't believe that part of the bible was changed, that was what it originally said. What is missing is the interesting part. All these different and contradictory ideas of what god is and wants and did.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Agree to disagree.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'd rather not leave it up to opinion and speculation.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't that all there is for the moment? We wont know until the world ends and there is nothing left. So again all we can do is agree to disagree.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, Radman did you know that right after that the Catholic church declared anyone who was Gnostic to be a heratic because they followed the teachings of a woman?
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not so sure about that. If there is no hereafter you will never know it after you are dead. It's not as if you would suddenly realize you were not alive anymore if there is nothing after you die. Do you remember looking forward to being born before you were alive?
  
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  hmmmm.... Well I am not saying there is no here after. I definitely believe in an after life. I'm just saying all that anyone can do is agree to disagree until we know. Which is when the world ends and there is nothing left of this beautiful planet.... Makes me sad that we will be the ruin of a very beautiful planet.... People call it progress. I call it a prelude to death.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You will be long gone before this planet is destroyed completely. And besides, there are more than likely plenty more in the universe. Unless of course, you are so arrogant as to believe this is the only one capable of sustaining life out of literally billions.
  
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I do believe that there are many more out there that sustain life. They're probably better taken care of too.
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  asheleyfriendposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm actually not really arrogant at all. I spent my life living with arrogant people. They're part of the problem but then again it is human nature to be arrogant.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We don't have to wait. We can follow the evidence to find the truth.
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Barefootfaeposted 12 years ago
What? Could turn out to be wrong? No way!

Listen I have a freind who had brain cancer. Told three times to go home and make his last affairs. He was prayed over the first time and it went into remission. It recurred. He was prayed over the second time. Remission again. He was prayed over the third time nearly ten years ago and has not had cancer since. Oh he isn't perfect. It did some damage to his vision. Other than that he is just fine.

Give me a theory for that.
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Seriously this is your proof? I have seen two guy die more or less while or just after praying, was god taking a day off? because both of them were wonderful people, the answer is a stupid as the question.
  
  Doctors are taught to give patients the worst likely outcome so that they will have plenty of time to complete their affairs, I don't know what treatment he was on or if he was on any but cancer is a fickle disease that can go into remission for a variety of reasons. I should not be dignifying this question with an answer.
  
  Also no I am not saying you could be wrong, anyone could be wrong, I am saying there is no evidence that you are right and the odds very very good that you are wrong.
  
  It really bothers me how religious people abuse intellectual honesty, scientists call things theories because they are open minded and willing to change things, religious people leap on the word like it proves something, it does not, religious people also have only theories the truth must be decided on the balance of evidence, religious views have no evidence scientific views do have evidence.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Arguing from ignorance, you don't know how or why your friend survived brain cancer so you attribute it to a miracle or god when the fact is you aren't capable of knowing so you use god as a way of comforting your ignorance. I don't know why your friend survived and no longer has brain cancer... I don't have a theory I am not a cancer expert.
  Personally I have heard all these survival / cure stories second hand. I think they are a product of being a really bad liar.
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Uninvited Writerposted 12 years ago
Oh well, this thread has just jumped the shark...
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  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah it's like Godwins law 2 when the multi colored text arrives we know it's done
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jacharlessposted 12 years ago
All those colors remind me of what websites looked like in the late 90s.
Only thing missing are falling sparkles and super-fast flashing banner ads...
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am glad graphic artists got their hands on the net or we'd still be there.
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jenb0128posted 12 years ago
The world would be a better place if people could live and let live, not judge each other because of their beliefs or lack of beliefs, and not try to force their beliefs or lack of beliefs on other people.
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cor3yjon3sposted 12 years ago
I are with that it's called faith for a reason who care if you don't beileve in god having faith in god or knowing there is something else out there is why some people wake up in the morning who wants to think this life is it with all these lovely people in it
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Randy Godwinposted 12 years ago
Anyone besides me just skipping over this childish colored text junk from Elijah? I never read it since I made the mistake of doing it the first time. It does make me feel sorry for him/her/it though.

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  Jane Bovaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're not alone. If i wanted to listen to tales from the pulpit, I'd go to church.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is obviously a very lonely needy person to think using bright colors will perhaps pull in a few visitors who haven't wasted their time before trying to make sense of its ramblings. As I said, very sad.
  
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  Jane Bovaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well I'll give him "A" for effort!
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I give it a "D" for delusion! Still sad!
  
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  EinderDarkwolfposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  wait wait wait....the man who can't answer a question or explain something has come back? Is he preaching again? Bet he still doesn't have answers...Oh to answer your question, no I'm not reading his LSD trip posts
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's hung up on one of those fake "Noah's Ark" sites and actually believes a natural formation of rocks is the ark. Seriously!
  
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  EinderDarkwolfposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I know, it's really kinda sad
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You KNOW what is "kindda sad" Randy & ED...
  
  That you will BELIEVE anything BUT The Actual Truth.
  
  FYI just posted a REAL PHOTO, from The Civil War, (AD 1870 approx) on The REAL Noah's Ark Hubsite.
  
  THIS PHOTO, and the downloadable BLOW UP, shows American Civil War soldiers POSING with a DOWNED Actual PTERODACTYL !!!
  
  Yup - THERE WERE ON BOARD THE REAL NOAH'S ARK ALSO.
  
  evolution theory IS STONE COLD DEAD - This IS Official, In JESUS' Holy Name, By Whom ALL THINGS ARE CREATED - Amen †
  
  Like i said before Randy - YOU'VE ALL BEEN HAD - By an Ancient LIAR of the first order !!!
  
  Go hissssssssssss - IT likes that SOUND......
  
  AND carry on living a life of utter delusion - IT ACTUALLY SUITS YOU !!!
  
  † Genesis 6 : 19 †
  
  "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female."
  
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  EinderDarkwolfposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What's kinda sad is anyone taking something they find on the internet as 100% fact, and then proceeding to argue it. Especially since that's not the first time that picture has been posted. It comes from a TV show in which the central Characters ended up in a place full of dinosaurs. Grey scaling it, doesn't change it. Nice try on passing it off as something other then it is. I'll give you an N for needs more effort.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Liars for Jesus!
  
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just like your bible the picture depicts a fictional event during a historical period of time. Can you tell which part of the bible is historic and which part is fictional? From the picture you've shown you can't. There is a sucker born every minute. Can you understand why no one can take you or anything you say seriously? I suppose not.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i DO apologise and will remove the hoax photo. My mistake. Sorry.
  
  However, it is true that Pteros have been sighted and there are a number of reports of them in North America - The Thunderbird IS FAMOUS.
  
  AND YES - THEY WERE ON THE ARK !!!
  
  Personally - i DO NOT fake nor hoax things and i HATE lies.
  
  I always tell the truth....
  
  Don't get too excited though - THE HUB ON NOAH'S ARK IS THE REAL DEAL - AS IS THE ARK - AS IS JESUS - AS IS GOD - AS IS SCRIPTURE.
  
  Can see how one fake Ptero photo makes you ALL jump for joy -
  
  "SEEE Elijah a fake Ptero pic - YOUR BIBLE IS FALSE TOO - Goody - goody"
  
  Ever heard of the "Pinhead - Jupiter Comparison" ???
  
  You see, one thing you CAN'T FAKE is a True man's TRUE PERSONAL TESTIMONY....
  
  ALL my other Comments remain AS ARE - Amen
  
  † Psalm 101 : 7 †
  
  "He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight."
  
  PS : SPOT A PRESERVED NOAH'S ARK RIB TIMBER HERE BELOW.
  
  This is NOT A FAKED PHOTO - Amen
  
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  scottcgruberposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting. Isn't that exactly what you were trying to do with the Theory of Evolution? Post an image of a modern-day pterosaur in order to prove all of evolution "stone cold dead?"
  
  Of course, even if a living pterosaur were discovered today, it would not disprove evolution. It would join the coelacanth and nautilus as one of the world's living fossils. Paleontologists would have to rewrite the textbooks a bit, but evolution would be very much intact.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  NOAH'S ARK FOUND scott IS THE OFFICIAL DEATH OF evolution theory.
  
  The Ptero pic HAS YET TO BE PROVED TO BE A FAKE, in the light of THE REAL FAKE posted earlier....
  
  Either way Ptero's still fly the skies of NOW, albeit FEW LEFT.....
  
  Oh yeah..and when did the fish learn to breath UNDERWATER, before they sprouted legs and climbed out to become hamsters and elephants and giraffes??? (HUGE LAUGHTER)
  
  Suggest you watch this You Tube Video - BEST WE'VE SEEN YET :
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIm85YuplJ8
  
  The fiery flying serpent was spotted in Wales last century...
  
  They were certainly around in 750 BC HERE :
  
  † Isaiah 30 : 6 †
  
  "The burden of the beasts of the south: into the land of trouble and anguish, from whence come the young and old lion, the viper and fiery flying serpent, they will carry their riches upon the shoulders of young asses, and their treasures upon the bunches of camels, to a people that shall not profit them."
  
  THE ACTUAL ROCK AT HOREB BELOW (MOUNT SINAI DISTRICT) SOME 70FT TALL - SPLIT WITH HUGE WATER EROSION CHANNELS FLOWING DOWN THE MOUNT - AMEN
  
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Everything you've just said is a lie. You must really hate yourself.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  STOP PRESS - APPEARANCES CAN BE DECEPTIVE.
  
  Below is the admitted HOAX PHOTO, agreed.
  
  However - LOOK CLOSELY - This HOAX was Inspired by the OTHER PHOTO.
  
  The guys is the photo below look NOTHING like the Civil War soldiers in the photo ABOVE...
  
  To DATE The Other Photo HAS NOT BEEN DISCREDITED....except by atheists with a passionate agenda TO NOT be PROVED WRONG...
  
  HOWEVER, if anyone can provide SOLID PROOF that the OTHER PTERO PHOTO above is a Hoax i will SIT CORRECTED....
  
  ATHEISTS are an EXTREMELY DECEIVED group of people (i love you guys - don't worry - this is NOT the issue)
  
  THE ISSUE is the lengths some HARD CORE atheists will go to try and "debunk" THE REAL TRUTH, because it doesn't fit their passionate world view of NO GOD, and the scorn and slander they level against Holy Scripture, God and Christians.
  
  The REAL Noah's Ark being a "rock formation" CASE TO POINT...
  
  THIS DEBUNKER'S LIE IS TOTALLY HILARIOUS...
  
  ANYHOW - look closely....
  
  HERE ARE THE BLOWS UPS TO COMPARE - Go Figure...
  
  The soliders in the above photo SURE LOOK REAL TO ME....
  
  http://www.Beyond-Eden.org/pterodactyl-RECENT.jpg
  
  http://www.Beyond-Eden.org/LOOKS-REAL-C … -PHOTO.jpg
  
  http://www.Beyond-Eden.org/DEFINITE-HOA … IL-WAR.jpg
  
  † Genesis 6 : 17 - 22 †
  
  "And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
  
  And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
  
  Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
  
  And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them. Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he."
  
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  All these photos look fake. If these pterodactyls were real, why are they not in some natural history museum today? Why didn't these soldiers see an opportunity to make a fortune from the carcass?
  
  This is silly Elijah. And so is putting the effort into colouring in.
  
  As for the Noah's Ark rib timber photo, it sure looks like a rock to me. If you seriously want us to believe we are looking at the Ark, then at least post something that looks like wood or a big boat.
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A good indicator that this boat shape is fake? Background cliffs are made of the same rock and therefore have the same qualities and edges.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, there are many such rock formations in the area if you get a look at the surround terrain. It's funny how people are fooled so easily by the creationism sites which abound on the net. Very sad people actually put stock in such fraudulent sites. But as you can tell by these forums, Barnum was right, there's a sucker born every minute!
  
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, even if they did find a boat in the mountains in Turkey or wherever, what makes it Noah's Ark? Did they run the registration number?
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So if the ark story is true, then your god flooded the Earth and killed millions of people, including young children, presumably, just to... what? Teach Noah's family a lesson? What sort of insane, vindictive psychopath would do such a thing? Even if gods were real, I would want no part of that god.
  
  Oh, and were the estimated 3000 species of beetle on board the ark?
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  Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What about termites?
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  prettydarkhorseposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey let him go on posting these things, it just shows what kind of person he is. This is what you get when a person believes all of the garbage on creationism sites. Funny, but still sad!
  
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  Elijah7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Juxtaposition with the grid-work of metal detected iron throughout The Ark, horizontal lines appeared on the radar scans, at regular intervals, delineating Compartments, Bulkheads, and the entire internal structure of Noah's Ark.
  
  These two confirmed scientific read-outs, were later verified by several independent groups - "Peer Reviews", revealing (for the scoffers) a MAN-MADE STRUCTURE.
  
  The word "scoffers" is used because atheists and those with Ark seeking "personal glory" agendas, and other maligned Doubting Thomases have incredulously attempted to falsely debunk Noah's Ark as a ROCK FORMATION.
  
  Did you just hear that LOUD BANG? Sorry, that was me falling off my computer chair as i nearly cracked a rib LAUGHING SO HARD ....
  
  ROCK FORMATION !!! Derr Gee Olly...
  
  If it looks like an Elephant. Has a long grey trunk and ivory tusks. Trumpets like an elephant. Smells like an elephant (whatever that smells like) and then charges at you..Guess What...
  
  IT'S AN ELEPHANT...
  
  † Isaiah 42 : 13 †
  
  "The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies."
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You know this diagram shows much contradiction in various shapes and sizes required of and spoke of in the Bible.... but I am sure you have an argument the explain that....
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And to add not just atheists, but other Christians who are actual geologists and archeologists have said the same thing, but you'll have to look them up because I am out, I am done dismissing your nonsense.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You've got us all. No more denying it, you're right that must be the Ark. How can we argue with all that data. If I'm not wrong that thing is in Turkey. Christians wouldn't lie about such things like they did with the shroud of Turin, So I'm heading out to Turkey right know to see this thing with my own eyes. I'll post pictures in my Facebook account in the morning.
  
  Okay Elijah, you can go away know. We are all convinced that you found the Ark in Turkey as told by a christian website.
  
  I'll be right back.
  
  Elijah, look up RAD MAN on Facebook, It'll may take a while but don't give up. In a few days we'll be buddies on Facebook and you can see all my first hand account of the Ark.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Elijah, what makes it Noah's Ark and not, say, Steve's Ark? Here's some homework for you: Google the term "confirmation bias." Write one page explaining how confirmation bias can affect those searching for Noah's Ark. Turn it in first thing tomorrow morning.
  
  But seriously, confirmation bias is what makes biblical archaeology something of a black sheep among general archaeology.
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is a sucker born every minute, and you are the biggest sucker
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, another good indication that this pterodactyl is probably fake? Size of the animal.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Read back and you will find out this is merely a photoshopped picture used in an old movie. Believers will lie about anything to try and prove their god is real.
  
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  scottcgruberposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Right. Well, it wouldn't be a pterodactyl, anyhow. In common usage, people tend to use "pterodactyl" incorrectly for any mesozoic flying creature. The actual pterodactylus had a maximum wingspan of only about five feet. The animal in the photoshopped Civil War photo could be a pteranodon or quetzlcoatlus - they grew much larger.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are correct, of course. Not that this guy cares at all.
  
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He showed me his true colors this morning by sending me some really filthy hate mail. I guess Elijah doesn't like to practice what he preaches. Maybe he's just a troll. Hence, why he has so little to say and so much spam to past. He also seems to really like those pictures of the flaming skull and the bloody Jesus. Makes me wonder if he's a Satanist playing devils advocate...
  Just so he knows, I don't just a group by it's members I just every person as an individual.
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  twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I reported his post where he used pictures of bloody Jesus, because he was posting pictures depicting gratuitous violence.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I believe bloody pictures of Jesus are accepted as routine here as in many places. Since they aren't actually of real people it's sorta like having graphic comic book characters displayed on the forums.
  
  It's message--it being the OP-- however, is much more distasteful than the depictions.
  
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Will Apseposted 12 years ago
I reckon all pictures should be banned from the forums. As soon as they start to appear, the quality of debate plummets.

It often just becomes a succession of slogans.
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  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are always desperate people who resort to such childish stunts like this one. It's the adult version of kicking and screaming to get attention when everyone is ignoring their usual antics.
  
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  Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's a fair comment.
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Randy Godwinposted 12 years ago
Delusion in color is still delusion. Skipped again!

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Randy Godwinposted 12 years ago
Reskipped!

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Lawrence Da-vidposted 12 years ago
Perhaps paying attention to one's own religion or religious beliefs would be paramount. Let others warship if they wish.....Freedom of and from religion is guaranteed, also freedom from having some idiots force their religion and opinions upon infidels lest they be eliminated.
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LucidDreamsposted 12 years ago
The world would be a better place if people didn't fight over religion at all! I do not believe we evolved from ape like species but niether do I believe that we were created a very short time ago (according to how the we believe the earth has actually existed) and were walking around naked biting into apples and having conversations with serpants. Ok, so that's a little humor but really, the earth has existed according to science for over 400 billion years. What took so long for god to put us here? Ahhh it just doesn't metter. People need a belief system and will do anything to get it.
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LadyMacabreposted 12 years ago
I think that we can all agree that the world would be a better place without assholes, regardless of religion or lack there of.
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  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I don't think so. We wouldn't last long without assholes.
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debleveyposted 12 years ago
@Rhonda: it's a question, not an indictment. Get over yourself. @ Barefootfae. I believe...that really says all I need to say, but what the heck - furthermore... God created free will. You don't have free will if everyone chooses the same thing. Thus, athiests have created themselves out of some masachistic (sic) need to think that they know all that's worth knowing; as if that were limited to whatever the five baser human senses can observe. Thank God for the atheists. All I have to do spiritually to get away from the devil is outrun one of them, so to speak. HALLELUJIAH!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  artblack01posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "athiests have created themselves out of some masachistic (sic) need to think that they know all that's worth knowing"
  That's contrary to reality, as insulting as you are trying to be. The simple fact is we atheist know that we don't know everything we also know that not one person knows much at all of what everything is. We do proclaim however to be able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality based on evidence. Anything else is just unknown and cannot be speculated on.
  
  To everyone else who reads this, see you elsewhere, I am done with this thread!
  reply report

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