Is vaccination motivated by financial and not health interests?
Hello Sannyasinman. I hope you are having a great day and I thank you for inviting me to add my facts to your assumptions.
Here are three of your assumptions, “{1} the vaccine program is based on financial interests, not health, {2} as serious side effects a routinely ignored and {3} ineffective and/or harmful products continue to be used.” Links always lead to more claims and assumptions but never to proofs.
First, data derived from scientifically sound research can not be challenged with arguments of motive. The data stands on their own merits and they are disconnected from the motives of the researchers. Trying to undermine the research data by claiming Merck researchers are motivated by financial, not health, issues is easily the least effective argument anyone could use. The only way to discredit the scientific data is to scientifically prove the data are wrong.
All vaccines, all medications for that matter, have side effects. Some are minor and others may be severe but there is no credible evidence that “serious side effects are routinely ignored.” Innuendo, suspicions, and anecdotes lead to hasty generalizations that are not sufficient justification to abandon a tested vaccine that has been proven widely beneficial. Nor is it rational to try to portray ALL vaccine researchers, manufacturers, and pediatricians as greed driven ogres without carefully scrutinizing every allegation.
Nearly 20-% of MMR recipients experience one or more side effect from a list of known issues. At one extreme, in really rare cases, “(less than 1 child out of 1,000,000 given measles vaccine) children have developed encephalitis 6-15 days after vaccination.” (1) On the other hand, 95 out of 100 of those who receive the first MMR shot after 12 months of age are likely to achieve lifelong immunity from measles, mumps, and rubella. To measure the risks against the benefits, you have to do the math. The chance of encephalitis = 00.0001% while the chance of lifelong immunity=95.0000% or greater.
Thanks for starting this thread, Sannyasinman. I always learn from researching your posts.
(1) http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccines/measlesHello Sannyasinman.
Very nice of you to sound the alert. I found your particular link to naturalnews.com extremely interesting especially when I compared this author’s words to the actual abcnews.go.com article. Perhaps you should do the same.
This author manages to copy and paste his own brand of distortion. Here are the second and third paragraphs from his article word for word. “Dr. Anne Schuchat, director of National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases reports 18,000 nationwide cases of pertussis so far this year - twice as many cases as there were at this time in 2011 and matching the 1959 numbers reported by this time of the year.
Pertussis is a bacterial infection involving the respiratory tract that spreads by coughing and sneezing. It often starts out like the common cold, but can become a life-threatening infection, particularly for infants under the age of one.”
The quotation marks are mine because none appear in the article. Now here are the original paragraphs in the abcnews.go.com piece before they were plagiarized:
“Dr. Anne Schuchat, director of National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said doctors across the nation have reported more than 18,000 cases of pertussis so far this year. That is more than twice as many cases as there were at this time in 2011 and the first time since 1959 that so many cases have been reported by this time in the year.
Pertussis, or whooping cough, is a bacterial infection involving the respiratory tract that is easily spread by coughing and sneezing. It can start out start out like the common cold, but can be a very serious infection, particularly for infants under the age of 1, who are too young to complete the full vaccination series.” {1}
Notice how the end of the last sentence of the abcnews.go.com article WAS NOT plagiarized. Mr. Stellpflug copied nearly all of Dr. Schuchat’s words except he introduced the words “life-threatening” and omitted the final clause, highlighting the importance of completing all of the shots, “who are too young to complete the full vaccination series.”
In addition, we should also discuss another rather crucial bit of information contained in the abcnews.go.com article that the Health Ranger’s web site omitted:
“'Unvaccinated kids are at eight times higher risk to getting pertussis compared to kids who have been vaccinated,' said Schuchat. ‘ Vaccinated kids who do develop pertussis have a milder course. They're also less infectious than unvaccinated children.' " The Health Ranger does not seem to want to share these facts with his readers.
Ah, if only that was the whole enchilada! Abcnews.go.com offered addition advice that naturalnews.com (“real news powered by the people”) would not print. “Pertussis outbreaks generally occur in peaks and waves. Even with vaccination, immunity tends to wane over time.”
Sannyasinman, before you accuse me again of killing the messenger, examine the message you are asking your readers to believe. It is biased, unbalanced, unsupported, and incredible hyperbole. Those who circulate this drivel are trying to convince tens-of-millions of people, adults who did not die from Polio in their childhood because of Drs. Salk and Sabin, that they should not vaccinate their own children and grandchildren because life is full of risks. {2}
Please do not take my comments personally. I am convinced if you are not being paid to salt forums with back links than you are a sincere and caring person who wants to enlighten the world. However, your sources promote claims and accusations without offering a shred of rational thinking in support. As for the tired mantra of Big Pharma raking in tons of money, we all must face the facts of life whether we want to or not. You and I would not find an aspirin anywhere if the manufacturer did not have a means to be repaid for the costs of his research and development.
{1} http://abcnews.go.com/Health/per’stus … AiYCPUYRMs
{2} http://www.who.int/immunization_monitor … onData.pdfHello Sannyasinman,
It does not require a high degree of intelligence to tell the difference between evidence and conjecture but it does require some effort.
Your first link leads to an article based upon another published by Rueters, “U.S. whooping cough outbreak could be worst in half century,” that includes the following alerts:
1. 2012 “is on track to be the most severe [Pertussis outbreak] in over half a century . . .
2. Washington State, which declared an epidemic in April, and Wisconsin were particularly hard hit, with each reporting more than 3,000 cases.
3. Nine people have died overall and the number of cases was already more than double than at the same time last year.
4. The CDC's Dr. Anne Schuchat stated that the current outbreak could actually overtake the most severe outbreak that allegedly <sic> occurred in 1959, “when 40,000 cases were reported.”
The article does not say any of the above warning statements are untrue!
In fact, the author agrees with most of the stats presented and adds various observations of his own such as:
1. “The individual who put these reports together was indeed able to make the cases of Pertussis seem to be a public health emergency. Yet, although the numbers may be high, the speculation that those numbers will rise to the levels of the alleged 1959 peak is just that – speculation.” Therefore, the author says, the stats are accurate but the forecasts are forecasts! (duh)
2. The author gets unbelievably obtuse when he writes, “even if the number of deaths in 2012 double to 18, the death rate would still not equal that of the years 2004 or 2005.” “This is not to say, however, that cases of Pertussis are not on the rise,” he concedes. “It is merely to show that the population should not <sic> engage in immediate panic and emergency measures.” He is actually saying the public should not heed the warnings because not enough people have died yet!
I could go on about this article but you can read it and decide for yourself. The criticisms and conjecture do not meet any reasonable, or rational, standard of proof. Nor does the article contain any evidence that contradicts whooping cough pro-vaccine propaganda as the title falsely claims.
Let's focus on reality, Sannyasinman, and not on someone else's opinion. The historical successes of vaccination programs continue to outweigh the occasional failures. The strategy of vaccine opponents is to discredit decades of success with disconnected anecdotes designed to instill fear. Their tactics aim to expose infants once more to horrible communicable diseases. Illnesses science has been fighting hard to eradicate.
Good evening, Madam. I found your statement quite interesting.
Please share with us. Exactly why does the CDC, the IDSA, and the government not tell us the truth about Lyme disease?
Lupus, fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, chronic fatigue syndrome, multiple sclerosis, and even schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder share similar characteristics. What scientific data leads you to claim Fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, lupus, ALS, MS and other conditions are all really Lyme Disease and not just similar?
I thank you, donotfear, and I look forward to your reply.
I live in Canada and vaccination is pretty much mandatory. There is always new information being learned practically every day about the long term side effects of medicines and vaccines. For now, vaccinations have been used to prevent mass epidemics and deaths. It's a prevention and not a cure. Medicine and germs are always evolving. R&D for new medicines should be ongoing since super virus's are slowly on the rise
not sure I'd want to live in a world where there's a disease from a certain germ that's mutated and ensures a one way ticket to the great bingo hall in the sky 
I thank you, Ms. Meredith, for your kind words.
I, too, favor as much research as our country can afford to support. More knowledge trumps less knowledge every day of the week.
Your comment prompted me to search for a connection between vaccines and “Shaken Baby Syndrome.” The National Center on Shaken Baby Syndrome uses the term “to describe the constellation of signs and symptoms resulting from violent shaking or shaking and impacting of the head of an infant or small child.” The causes focus on physical head trauma and I find nothing that associates the condition to vaccines. {1} Perhaps I have missed something.
The subject of vaccine concentration has received a lot of airtime lately. In fact, many medical professionals encourage concerned parents to opt for individual, spaced inoculations instead of combined formulae. Such action seems prudent until further studies tell us more.
I will never know how a mother feels when her child is stricken with a horrific illness that may have been triggered by a vaccine. Your profile, however, articulates your conviction that our lives are the sum of our choices. Should your theoretical mother accept and shoulder guilt as the fruit of her decision to vaccinate or should she accept as a possibility that an unknown mechanism in her child may have ultimately lead to the same end even if the vaccinations had not been administered? You are correct to observe that there is so much that we do not know. However, when faced with the realities of spreading life-destructive, contagious diseases, we do not have the luxury to wait until we know everything there is to know. We must make the best possible decisions based upon what we do know at the time and, yes, hope they lead to the best possible outcome.
{1} http://dontshake.org/sbs.php?topNavID=3&subNavID=27
Hi again, Ms. Meredith. I admire your reasoning and restraint when discussing what I consider a complex and predominantly scientific topic. Unlike many who just distrust vaccines, you can question and suspect some causal possibilities without irrationally excluding all others.
Above you make a plea for common sense and state two hypotheses. I summit, however, as laypersons, we would be foolish to rely solely on our own “common sense.” Allow me to appeal to your “common sense” and ask a few questions that concern me. Without considering other reliable medical/scientific opinions, how do we determine 16 vaccinations by the age of 6 months are too many? Should the number be lower or higher; and if so, what should it be? Should your common sense prevail or should mine? On the other hand, should we consult medically trained professionals and rely on their judgements as well as our own?
The vaccination schedule recommended today calls for shots between birth and 6 months of age for Hepatitis B, Rotavirus, Diphtheria, Tetanus, Haemophilus Influenzae type b, Pneumococcus, and Polio. {1} All are horrible ailments leading to lifelong, and many times, life-threatening conditions. Honestly, I do not have enough “common sense” to determine if 16 shots are too many or too few. I have no way to determine which decease to immunize against and which to delay.
Anti-vax proponents face the same challenges only their inability to rationally analyze data is compounded by their fear and distrust of matters they are unable to understand. They opt to ignore factual scientific data and place their faith in conspiracy theorists with their own hidden agendas.
Therefore, Ms. M, I will continue to consult the academic, scientific, and medical professions that have lead humanity out of the dark ages and who are responsible for the elimination of small pox and rinderpest. The same cadre has measles, mumps, rubella, lymphatic filariasis, and cysticerosis in their crosshairs.
You do have a way of stimulating the gray matter. I thank you for your observations.
{1} http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/d … ule-pr.pdf
Thank you, Sannyasinman,
I followed the link and browsed the site. I do not recommend it except to those who want to see first hand just how bizzare some conspiracy theorist can be.
Have a good one.
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