Is politics a religion and which side are you on?
That's the conclusion I've drawn, too.
Although I find people even more zealotry in political discussions (at least the last several months).
I know many Christians consider it their duty to spread the word and try to convert others.
I would not try to argue or strongarm someone into converting to my faith.
But I for some crazy reason feel differently about politics.
If I can just convert one Independent... just one.
That's exactly how I've been thinking of it, too.
The Super Bowl of FANTASY Football.
We could find some diversion in writing cheers.
Maybe tomorrow.
After we send Hollie Thomas some broccoli.
Working backwards from your last sentence:
1. Yes. We have. Not sure who engineered this, but rank and file Americans have become gladiators. Pitted against each other to the death. And what do we get out of it? Poorer!
2. That is probably true. Underneath the guise of freedom and rights and all that, it really is about money, isn't it? So sad.
3. This one makes me really sad. I must be an atheist and didn't know it!
No MM, religion is politics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBnI40SHxV0My post turned so long (as my posts tend to do sometimes) that I was thinking about turning it into a Hub. Then, though, I decided I couldn't really be bothered; so I'm posting it here (which makes sense, since the thread-question is what got me going with the long reply
). Anyway... I'm posting the long reply here. It's part vent, part-rant,but mostly just my aim to contribute to fueling this particular discussion. Jean Bakula has said something very similar to what I say below. Needless to say, people can skip over my long post if they don't want to read it.
Just as I've created and/or selected my own, individual, set of isolated beliefs with regard to religion, I'm the same with politics. There are things about both sides that I disagree with and/or think are out-and-out misguided (at best). I keep thinking I'm going to write a Hub about the ways in which both sides are wrong about one thing or another, or about the ways in which people from both sides are often clueless when it comes to the realities of life and what would be most useful in solving some of the problems. OR, I may write a book, because I've been in situations that have helped me see how or why some solutions to some problems aren't really solutions.
I'm registered as Republican because, back when I signed up, I was opposed to too much government intervention into too many things. I overlooked some of the more extreme/misguided/ignorant thinking/policies associated with the Republican party because the "main idea" was closer to my thinking than the "main idea" behind the Democratic party. Things have gone on, and some of things that have come out of the Republican party have irked me more and more, because some of the thinking is just downright clueless. Still, there's no way that I could just do a switch, because I've seen for myself how destructive some policies/beliefs are that come out of the Democrat side of things. Things have also gone on in my personal life that have made me pretty horrified at the way things are done and designed when some types of Liberal thinking/attitude make their way into policies/ laws.
Before I experienced all that "first-hand experience" with the ways in which government fails people who need their rights protected and most deserve their rights be protected, I used to think of myself as a just-over-the-border Republican - never in any deeper than that. After I've seen the ways in which any number of government agencies and/or the court system/legal system damage and/or destroy the lives of people who would have been perfectly fine without the marauding and overbearing intrusion of government into personal business (when it wasn't otherwise called for), I'm beyond disgusted and shocked. I'm horrified. What's worse is that whether it's Republicans or Democrats, people in The System/government all tend to look at citizens as the cause of problems; rather than looking at what I see as major causes of/contributors to a whole lot of serious problems - the government and how it does things and "thinks", itself. Without going into the whole story/situation/facts, one simple example I have is that my Constitutional rights have been disregarded. I've come to see that The Constitution can be a matter of nice words on paper that don't really apply in real life, or at least in some situations.
I used to have some foundation of a sense of Patriotism there. After what has gone on in my life (and in the lives of those involved, as well as the lives of others not in my life but in similar situations), that's gone. I had this thing that my mother lost her first young husband in WWII,and that my father was a WWII veteran; but that when their American-born daughter, for the one and only time in her life, needed something from the court system; not only did the court system fail, but it dragged in people to make a mess that I never would have had in my life if the court system had done its job the way it is supposed to (and honestly- what I'm saying isn't a matter of hearing "only one side of the story",and it's not a matter of someone proclaiming innocence of one thing or another when she's really not as innocent as she claims).
I was raised hearing the old thing about how middle-of-the-road people "don't stand for anything". That's not true. Middle-of-the-road people often stand for something (maybe a whole lot of things) and are not willing to compromise the important things for which they stand in order to align themselves with a party beyond just choosing a ballot during the primaries.
My "religion" (political ideas) is that neither party understands citizens, and neither party respects them enough to aim for laws/policies that are geared to the "OK-ness" of people, and to the fact that most people are the same when it comes to being willing to work hard, wanting their kids to have an education, wanting their family members to have good health care, and being smart and capable enough to build a nice life if a) the government stays out of the way (or more importantly, doesn't come into whole and healthy lives and mess them up), and b) there were some good laws that stopped some big businesses (but also government) from mucking up "the works" and lives.
My "religion" is that people shouldn't vote from their own self-interest. They need to vote for what's good for the country. It's that there isn't enough value of/respect for citizens coming from too many people in government (regardless of side), and that nobody (not even a lot of citizens themselves) recognizes how capable, intelligent, whole, and responsible most people really are (regardless of whether or not they have an impressive education or whether or not they live in a third-floor apartment that they can't always afford to heat).
I actually worked for a government agency for awhile a few years ago. They have new employees take the same oath that Presidents take. I realized that I didn't need to take that oath because swearing "to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic" (if I have the wording correct) was something I'd always been ready to do. I'd lived my life believing that the founding principles were things to live by and aim to defend any time it appeared something was contrary to those principles. I wasn't a big flag-waving kind of Patriotic person. It was just there - kind of deep and quiet, but always there. Like a lot of people, I had the luxury of innocently believing that my rights would be protected, and that the court system would be there for me if/when I needed it to be.
The one and only time I really needed any kind of individual protection of rights from the government/court system, I was completely disregarded; and so was justice, truth, and accountability. After a lifetime of naively believing that "The Flag" would always be there if/when I needed my freedoms and rights protected (as well as my children's and other family members'), I discovered that it was all a big sham - nothing but words, because my whole case was handled behind closed doors; and in a way so bizarre I feel like I'm living in The Twilight Zone (or else Bizarro World) to this day.
As far as voting goes, I vote if there's someone I happen to respect more than the one opposing him/her; and I'll vote if it's a matter of two equally acceptable/unacceptable people but I want to vote against a party. Other than that, I'm not above not voting if I find both candidates equally unappealing. Romney was governor of Massachusetts for years. He either didn't notice, or overlooked, some of atrocious policies that go on in this state. There are things I've heard and seen him do that don't make me think he truly sees women as equals. Condescending behavior toward women is one of those things. As for the other one, I'm not about to vote for him either. So I'll vote for people running for other offices but sit out the Presidential election. As a just-over-the-border/middle-of-the-road-type person, I do stand for something; and that is that my vote isn't going to go to anyone that I think isn't particularly good for the country and/or doesn't see equality in fellow citizens the way s/he ought to.
Religion-wise, I'd say I tend not to believe there's a God; but since I won't allow myself to make that jump (mostly because, underneath, I not only need to think there might be, but am afraid there might be lessons if there is and I give up that low-level-but-ingrained belief that there is). As far as politics and the nation go, it's kind of the same thing for me: Way down deep I do care about the country and the principles on which it was founded, and do believe that they "work" a good part of the time; BUT, when I think of how this country and its courts/laws/programs are so often there for people other than I; but how when I needed those things to work for me (when I was born here, born the daughter of a WWII vet, raised around Boston and immersed in the importance and significance of its history, have always been ready to try to defend - in one way or another - this country's principles and/or other citizens; and pretty much did everything a person is supposed to do (including being honest in court) ) there was nobody and nothing to stand up for or protect my rights, my children's rights and overall well-being, or the well-being of some other family members.
So, I don't mean to sound self-righteous or self-aggrandizing, but as a middle-of-the-road-type person who has discovered what I've discovered about how things work in this country, I like to think that I stand for the rights of me, my family, and other Americans who may not know how bad things really are (but may one day find their own lives raped, damaged and/or destroyed at the hands of a government full of law-makers who, at best, don't have a clue about the real lives, real capabilities, and real potential of citizens).
Right now, the problem (as I see it) is that (at least the most visible/powerful) people in government are not capable of truly understanding the real lives/needs/potential of citizens; and because of that, I don't see anyone running who represents me, what I stand for, or something I think of as worthy of my vote.
I don't want to come across as some anti-government/anti-America crazy, because I care deeply about the principles on which this nation was founded and care very much about the rights of fellow citizens. I also believe that change can be made peacefully, with votes (or lack of them), words, and people finding all those things they have in common with other civilized, caring, peace-loving, people who want their country stronger - not turned upside down, torn down, or torn apart.
The following link is NOT intended to imply or suggest that I AT ALL think there should be the kind of revolution that took place when this nation was founded. Today is a different time,and things can be differently. Besides, a new nation doesn't need to be formed. Something just has to be done to get back the core principles of the old nation.
The reason I'm posting the link is that there are so many things said that hit very close to home for a lot of people today (I know it hits disturbingly and horrifyingly close to home for me), if, instead of a King and another country, the words referred to things that go on within our own, present-day, government. I know there are people who will think I'm "being dramatic" or "being melodramatic" here, but - really - if what has gone on in my life could have gone on, it could happen to pretty much anyone.
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/
For all the talk about how people "in the middle" "don't stand for anything", I really think - whether it's with religion OR politics - it's the more balanced, reasonable, people who hovered at that border between Left and Right who a) stand for things we most often all have in common, and b) have the best and most reasonable understanding of the real issues in real lives. Why anyone would even consider voting for someone too far beyond that dividing line is beyond me. We all know how it all works with getting votes from people from one group or another, but - I can't help it - I think "how it all works" doesn't particularly work if/when the true aim is to get to the root of the problems to be solved by truly understanding them and doing something about them.
In any case, I have enough in common with both sides that pretty much feel mainstream and "core America", but little enough in common with both sides that I also feel very much like an outsider in the country in which I once felt I could trust when it came to believing that I'd have freedom to live my life, protect my own children from unnecessary harm/damage to their lives and be able to do the whole "pursuit of happiness" thing that I've been robbed of for a full twenty years of my life now.I do not believe the current political situation is a Christian vs. others issue. Except for a few non-thinking, kneejerk folks out there, political views should be exceedingly individualized - like fingerprints.
As a Christian, I am on neither "side." I stand my own ground with my own set of beliefs as I interpret God's word. I would expect others to stand their own ground with their own set of beliefs based on their own world paradigms/faith systems.
I would NOT expect any thinking person to take a kneejerk reaction to one "side" or the other because that's where all the other people of their religion, non-religion, race, age group, sex or any of the other silly things that we divide ourselves into are standing.
In short as a Christian, I think for myself, thank you.Yep. You've proven you don't get it. I'm very sorry for you. Just because someone believes differently than you does not make them "deluded." I know it makes you feel better, but...
Second, you've also proven you don't know what my name means.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
I'm bowing out now. I've heard that HubPages forums - especially on politics and religion - are worthless. Too bad. A good, intellectual conversation would have been nice. But once again - it's an "I'm right - so you're an idiot" discussion. Before lowering myself anymore to that level, I'm out.
Peace.Hey Jaxson.
Now that's an interesting accusation.
It appears you are expecting an intellectual grasp of not only one's own chosen (or learned by rote) Christian faith, but of ALL Christian faiths (?)
I'm not even sure a theology or religion studies major could provide that.
Are you saying that Drax should be able to cite the doctrine of
Roman Catholics
Esiscopalians
Baptists
Methodists
Presbytarians
Congregationalists
Dutch Reformed
Greek Orthodox
Russian Orthodox
Pentacostals
Evangelicals
LDS
7th Day Adventists
I'm sure I'm leaving out a ton more Christian sects.
Just asking for clarification of what you said.
NOT arguing with you or suggesting anything.
It's actually a very interesting concept -- assuming I've interpreted you correctly.
In fact, made me think that I should dust off my trusty catechism, as I'm certain I would not pass the pop quiz.Yup, that's exactly what I'm saying. If he understands ALL Christians so well to know that they ALL are brainwashed.. it shouldn't be a problem.
Oh, and you listed LDS as Christians... didn't you know that they aren't?
Not me. I prefer mud.
Wanna rastle?
- JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago
0I'm on team Romney, and serious discussion is obviously a waste of time...
So... that being said...
... as opposed to, let the good times roll. Let ths foreclosures happen. Let Detroit go bankrupt.
The market will take care of itself.
Want a job?
It's going to take some time for me to cut all those pesky federal regulations.
If you're in a hurry (like your unemployment benefits ran out)
here's some cheery news: I just bought another factory in China. Perhaps you could apply there. It's not exactly what we Americans call "living wage" but room and board (you'll share with 11 other girls) included.
- JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago0
"Things were supposed to be better..."
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