179 hub flagged and unpublished all at once?

1. 36

   jonikiposted 16 years ago

   So I am away for a couple days and come home to hubpages for a nice Easter gift.
   
   EVERY ONE of my hubs has been flagged and unpublished. ALL OF THEM??
   
   Hubs that have been live for almost a year now with thousands of hits are suddenly against the rules?
   
   Was there a major rules change or is someone seriously that far behind in their work?
   
   Or is it someone new on the staff trying to make their mark? I'm guessing this is probably it. Well this is my fairwell to Hubpages as their is no way I am going back through almost 180 hubs.
   
   Take care folks.

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   1. 72

      Maddie Ruudposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Joniki:
      
      When we see a pattern of infractions, we flag an entire account, since it is impractical to go through each hub (especially when there are 180) to check whether each and every one meets our standards.  You can easily remedy the situation by going through and revising the offenders and resubmitting the innocent hubs, at which point we can see your willingness to comply and will clear your account.  Until that time, every new hub you submit will come through moderation before it is published.
      
      Your hubs are by no means "lost," and I hope you will take the time to work with our system, since indeed, some of your hubs have no issues with them, and the others may only require slight tweaking to bring them into line with our Terms of Service.
      
      Remember: only 2 links to a single domain per hub, and only on original content.  Many people seem to get caught up in posting duplicate content with outbound commercial links, which we still consider overly promotional.
      
      I hope this clarifies the HubPages position for you.
      
      Maddie

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      1. 36

         jonikiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         That's ok, I'll post my content elsewhere.
         
         Thanks!!!

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2. 36

   jonikiposted 16 years ago

   LOL, I even had a hub of auto repair tips that was dedicated to my father who passed away this past year with NO LINKS on it at all and it was unpublished as "overly promotional"
   
   NOT A SINGLE LINK and it is overly promotional?

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3. 62

   Mishaposted 16 years ago

   It's a glitch I think. Did you try to email team@hubpages.com ?

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4. 68

   chantelg4posted 16 years ago

   This is I am sure a mistake. There is no way you can lose all of your hubs and hard work just like that with no warning or explanation.  I agree with Misha, it must be a glitch. Don't quit just yet, investigate this further.

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5. 36

   jonikiposted 16 years ago

   I hope so because I did not even receive an email saying there was a problem but for now I have given up. Going back through them all is not an option and if it was a mistake I doubt it would happen to one member.
   
   I'm sure they have their reasons and it is their site but be warned that yes you can lose all of your work just like that.

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6. 0

   simcoposted 16 years ago

   " a pattern of infractions"
   
   Hi Maddie,
   
   Could you explain the above please.
   
   Sorry if I am a bit obtuse but I do not understand
   
   Thanks,
   Paul.

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7. 0

   simcoposted 16 years ago

   "You can easily remedy the situation by going through and revising the offenders and resubmitting the innocent hubs"
   
   Sorry Maddie but if you do not know which hub or hubs have offended, how can you pick the relevant hubs to resubmitt ??

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   1. 72

      Maddie Ruudposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      The automated email sent to you when one of your hubs is flagged clearly states the guidelines by which we are judging overly promotional content.  For clarification, I've posted them below:
      
      The rules - read these carefully:
      * You must have no more than 1-2 links to any one domain on a page of original content (tinyurl and other cloakers are considered wildcards)
      * You may NOT add links to sites or offers you are promoting on copied, non-original Web content (i.e. if the copy exists already on the Web, you can't reuse it to promote your sites)
      * You can not give a short teaser and a link to "read more" or "continue". The Hub must have the full content you want to present.
      * You can NOT add links to sites irrelevant to the Hub's topic
      * You can not include a short teaser and then "click here to learn more" - your Hub must address the topic fully by itself
      * You should consider adding more original content, or legitimate links to other online resources that complement this Hub's topic
      
      It's very straightforward: if your hub meets the guidelines, you may resubmit it for publication.  If it does not, you can revise it and then resubmit it.  If you have questions on a particular hub, you can email the team email box with a link to the hub in question for further clarification.

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      1. 62

         darksideposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         Hey Maddie, can you explain the wildcard system to me?
         
         Will all tinyurl's be counted as the one domain. Or will say, tinyurl.com and giganticurl.com () be counted as one domain?

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      2. 0

         simcoposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for the reply Maddie

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8. 83

   Susan Ngposted 16 years ago

   "Only 2 links to a single domain per hub, and only on original content."
   
   I'm sorry, but I'm confused.  Does this mean the link must be original on Hubpages (i.e. no other hub has that link)?  Or the content of the link must have no duplicate anywhere on the internet (i.e. original)? Or the content of the article with the link has to be original?  But all content has to be original so that can't be it.

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   1. 62

      darksideposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I'm thinking it means "the content of the article with the link has to be original".

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      1. 83

         Susan Ngposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         But all articles, regardless of whether or not they have links, have to have all-original content to be acceptable to Hubpages, don't they?  So it makes no sense to mention "and only on original content".   That's what got me confused.  I was thinking maybe I misinterpreted the sentence.

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9. 85

   kerrygposted 16 years ago

   Is it really as little as two links to the same domain? Huh, I might have some violations in there then (though relevant to the hub's content, and linking to respected sites like Wikipedia). Perhaps I should go through and check...

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   1. 72

      Maddie Ruudposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Any links with cloakers will count as wildcards, in that if you have only one link to an affiliate page, and two TinyURL links, that would put you over the limit.  In other words, TinyURL and other cloakers do not count as their own separate domain; they are added to the count of whatever other domains you may be linking to.
      
      
      
      Wikis are considered non-commercial, and shouldn't be a problem.

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      1. 85

         kerrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         Okay, thanks for the clarification!

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10. 0

    daflaposted 16 years ago

    O.K., so let's say I publish a hub on gardening, and I have found a site I want to quote more than once.  Copyright laws dictate that you use partial language with a link to the remainder of the article.  So if I'm to go by your rules, I cannot publish this hub because it would have the "read the remainder here" in it?  Or even if that passed through, because I'm referring to the same site three times?
    
    Just wondering, because I already have a hub I'm working on that references at least two articles on a site for a garden center that also has some great information.(they don''t even have affiliates, so I'm not making any money off of it). 
    
    According to copyright laws, I can only quote what is it...1/3 of the info with a link to the rest, so I technically can't do that hub.  I'd have to break it up into two hubs, which would completely destroy the continuity of content.
    
    Just wondering.  If that's the case, I'll just post the hub on another site, but I don't really want to.

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    1. 72

       Maddie Ruudposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       dafla:
       
       I think you're taking that phrase the wrong way.  That rule is geared towards people who are posting an intro or "teaser" with a link to an article posted elsewhere, say, on Squidoo or EzineArticles.  If you're writing your own content and citing a source, that isn't the same thing.  And to avoid the 2+ link flagging, after the second citation from the same site, you can simply refer visitors back to the previous quote, since posting the same link over and over again is redundant anyway...

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       1. 0

          daflaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks, Maddie.  That makes sense.  My head isn't quite clear today.  Had surgery last Thursday.

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11. 0

    RFoxposted 16 years ago

    The articles aren't gone they're just unpublished. And if you read the terms of service when you sign up to Hubpages it clearly states the rules. No more than 2 links to commercial sites period. It's not that difficult to comply with the rules and still make good money.
    There are lotsa people here doing it.
    
    Actions have consequences. Do it right the first time and you won't have any problems. If you're unsure of any rules there are a lot of people in the forums that will help you. Not to mention HP administrators who are always happy to help.

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    1. 62

       darksideposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       To be fair, I don't think that when Joniki joined the site that the rules stipulated how many links were allowed to a domain in a hub. It may have said it when you joined, but not when I joined.
       
       Of course it's at HubPages HQ's discretion on how they run their own ship. And I applaud them for the direction they've taken and the course they've plotted.
       
       However to say that Joniki did it wrong the first time is incorrect.

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12. 0

    moonieg1971posted 16 years ago

    Thats funny Joniki because I just had 2 of my hubs flagged out of blue, can someone please explain why ALL OF A SUDDEN this is happening? Is there someone new that is not sure what to do working for hub pages or something?
    This is crazy.

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    1. 75

       Lissieposted 16 years agoin reply to this

        
       Well now you mention it I have now flagged the first 4 of your hubs I looked at because they were all teasers for your clickbank promotions.  Remember any hubber can flag rubbish when they see it - doesn't matter when its published.

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       1. 0

          moonieg1971posted 16 years agoin reply to this

          I have had 3 hubs flagged and i have corrected them all. Thanks for flagging them so I could get them corrected and be taken down completly because someone doesnt want to do THEIR job.

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13. 68

    chantelg4posted 16 years ago

    I've only been here two months and I do find it disconcerting to say the least that someone's entire account has been flagged after a year? That's the part that I don't get, so you have not been checking Joniki's hubs up until now?
    
    As much as I love hubpages and agree 100% with the rules, to ask someone to go through all of 180 hubs seems a bit unrealsitic and hardly worth the effort. I try to follow the rules as best as I can but even now I am afraid to get the boot out of the blue. Surely hubpages seen the infractions as the hubs were published, after all, aren't the hubs screened? And if you were overwhelmed with too many, is it really fair to just punish an entire account?
    
    Obviously 180 hubs is a huge contribution no matter how you look at it, whether it was for business or not, whether she faulted on some of the rules or not, It still takes time and effort to create all those pages and surely hubpages made money from it.  I don't blame Joniki one bit for leaving, I would be gone in a flash, if a year's worth of work was suddenly gone.
    
    I hope hubpages takes another look at how they evaluate hubpage quality.  I've seen a myriad of people arguing over flagging and such, and I agree that everyone has the right to flag what they feel is inappropriate, but this is a bit much.  What more can I say, this is just my opinion.
    
    P.S. Maddie clearly states that going through 180 hubs is impractical for hubpages, so why do you expect it from a hubber?

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    1. 75

       Lissieposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       
       Because the hubber is supposed to be the author of the hubs? Of course if they are just paste and copy jobs yes it might be a pain - darn!

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       1. 0

          moonieg1971posted 16 years agoin reply to this

          When you state it is IMPRACTICAL FOR HUBPAGES to go through 180 hubs why would you think it would be PRACTICAL for the author to do so. Its disguisting to me that instead of going through and looking at someone's hubs for infractions you decide to take down all of their hubs. For some people this is how they make their living and by taking them all down AFTER A YEAR you are costing him money.
          Shame on Hubpages, Shame on Maddie Shame Shame SHAME !!!
          
          YOU CANNOT FLAG someone's entire account because YOU DONT WANT TO TAKE THE TIME TO DO YOUR JOB!!!
          
          It would be understandable if he had a few that were not complying with the rules that those would be flagged. But to take down his entire portfolio is a abuse of power to me.
          
          As he stated he has had some up for over a year, my question JONIKI would be to hubpages like this, what have you been doing for a year that NOW it's a problem?
          
          How can he be considered a spammer if he has hubs with NO promotional  material at all on some of the hubs?

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          1. 72

             Maddie Ruudposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             moonieg:
             
             Flagging accounts is part of my job.  I'm perfectly happy to stand corrected, if the user in question takes time to email the team email box.  However, when we see a pattern, and have sent several emails warning the user of their violations, it is standard procedure to flag an account to give the user a chance to review the Terms of Service and bring their hubs into compliance.
             
             Of about 700 hubs submitted each day, around 15% or more do not meet our guidelines, and it's up to me to catch them.  I do not have time to sit around sifting through a single user's hubs, especially if the user has showed no initiative to contact me or revise the offenders.

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             1. 36

                jonikiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                You did not send me emails about flagged hubs. I received NO EMAILS. You went back through my hubs for SOME REASON.
                
                I had not posted any NEW HUBS so if it is impractical for you to go back through hubs because of the volume of new hubs then why did you decide to go back through mine.
                
                You have opened up a whole new issue here and I will be documenting all violatuing hubs that I can find that are still live on hub pages.

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       2. 36

          jonikiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Again you need to speak about what you know about. My hubs were NOT copy and paste.

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14. 57

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    I wouldn't call copying and pasting some one else's writing and adding affiliate links "work."
    
    And we have all seen these people put up dozens of hubs in an hour.

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    1. 36

       jonikiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Who are you talking about? My work was not simply copy and paste with affiliate links so you should reserve your comments for subjects you know something about.

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15. 68

    chantelg4posted 16 years ago

    I agree with you 100% Mark, what I am wondering is why hubpages did not pick this up a year ago and only 180 hubs later. I thought all hubs were screened but only 10 months later? I know all about the guidelines so I really don't need to re-read what Maddie wrote because that does not answer my question.  My question again is why isn't Hubpages screening for quality from the get go?
    
    Apparently Joniki never received any emails suggesting which hubs were breaking the rules, so is it reasonable to expect someone to go through all of them if Hubpages won't even do it?  Could some of the hubs be copy and paste? Sure. Could some of the hubs be over promotional? Absolutely. Should these hubs be allowed? No. Should you prosecute someone without a reasonable chance to rectify the problem (and I'm not talking about going through 180 hubs, that's not reasonable)?
    
    I don't know, it's seems a bit harsh to me. I guess it takes me forever to even write one article, I would not want them to be swept under the rug all at once. Surely Joniki contributed some useful content that made Hubpages a few dollars?
    
    Anyways, fellow hubbers, don't crucify and punish me for having an opinion. You know, I was worried about this as Hubpages can be somewhat intimidating for newbies, who knows, perhaps I'm in the dog house now, lol! Hope not.

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16. 86

    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    Chantel,
    
    I think it's more than reasonable for Hubpages to put the responsibility of writing and submitting quality content on the shoulders of the writers.  I didn't have a chance to see the OP's hubs, but honestly - If Maddie said there was a pattern of infractions, it's my experience that they're right. 
    
    So what do you do if this happens to you?
    
    Well, for one thing, evaluate the quality of your Hubs.  The Hubs are YOUR content first, so YOU should be the first person to say.. hey, no really, I wrote that.  If you didn't write the Hub, then that's the problem, and that's why the Hubs got shut down.
    
    If the Hubs don't follow the link allowances, but are all original content otherwise, then that's an easy fix too:  just take out some of those affiliate links!
    
    All in all, it's not that hard to follow HP rules.  They're bold and clear in black and white for everyone to read, verified by you every time you post a Hub, and after almost 200 of 'em you think people would figure out what's allowed or not.  Unless they're a spammer.

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17. 57

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    chantelg4 - Yes. It takes me ages to write one too. But I am not worried I am going to have all my hubs deleted.   And I don't think you should worry either.
    
    I don't know why it took them so long to find them, but I would guess this is why they have taken Maddie on - to help find all this stuff. I guess it is not an automated system and everything needs checking manually? That's a lot of hubs to go through LOL
    
    I am sure hubpages made a little income, but I think part of the reason they get rid of these is because there is NO income for them if all the links are to affiliate sites. That is where the money is. Why should hubpages want hubs that generate no income for them?

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18. 86

    Rik Ravadoposted 16 years ago

    I've not read joniki's hubs (obviously I can't now) and I accept that he/she may not be a deliberate spammer. 
    
    However, I think many of us have got fed up with HubPages being cluttered up with spam and spammers.  Lets keep flagging 'em so Maddie can unpublish them.  Welcome on board Maddie.  This town sure needs a good sheriff !

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19. 68

    chantelg4posted 16 years ago

    Yes, you may be right Mark, perhaps Hubpages did have a lot on their plates. Perhaps now that Maddie is on board the system will run a bit smoother.  I guess their has to be a few bumps along the way for anything to be truly successful!!  And yes, there would be no point to Hubpages and the community as a whole if all visitors we're sent elsewhere.

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20. 72

    Peter M. Lopezposted 16 years ago

    From what I can tell, you're doing a great job Maddie, keep it up.

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21. 52

    jyakel14posted 16 years ago

    Here's where I am confused.  It is my understanding from Joniki that he never recieved anything stating that his hubs were not in compliance.  If that is the case, what chance does he have to fix the offending pages?  If he did recieve notification that specific pages were not in compliance then yes, it is his fault for not trying to fix them.
    
    Again though, I think he said he's never recieved anything stating there was an issue with any of his pages until his entire account was flagged.
    
    Is that really possible? 
    
    I'm just a bit confused.  Prior to Maddy being brought on board was there no one looking at the pages submitted?  If that is the case I find it even further wrong that this has happened.  If no one has been looking at them and now they have someone to do so, then it is Maddys job whether inpractical or not to look through each and every page! 
    
    I am completely new to this, but I have to say, that if this is the standard procedure for this website I'll be finding a new one.  There is too much time and effort on my part putting together a page for someone to just randomly decide that its inpractical for them to do the job they were hired for.

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22. 62

    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Joniki, *before* the incident, did you receive emails from HP staff stating non-compliance of some of your hubs and asking you to correct the problem?

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    1. 36

       jonikiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       NO..plain and simple NO I did not receive emails. I had not received an email for months and actually talked back and forth with the staff about my concern over those hubs and was told not to worry about it as long as I worked to correct them. Which I ALWAYS DID.

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       1. 0

          RFoxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Sounds like you were spoken to by HP's about your hubs. You obviously knew their concerns if you talked back and forth to them about it, so this shouldn't be a surprise.
          
          Again I reiterate: Take responsibility for your work. It is your work and your job to ensure it complies with the terms of service. Period.

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          1. 36

             jonikiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             This was MONTHS ago and those hubs were corrected. Why dont you stop kissing hubpages asses and find something to do.
             
             You people that do nothing but kiss ass constantly and jump into conversations that are not your business because you want to feel important make me sick.
             
             GO FIND A LIFE.

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             1. 0

                RFoxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                When you decide to post in the forums you make it everyone's business. If you didn't want people to know or comment you would have contacted HP directly not in an open forum.

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       2. 62

          Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Looks like a terrible gap in communication somewhere. Maddie says emails were sent, you say you did not receive them... Could it be emails got lost in transit? If so, I think it would be a good idea for Maddie to revert everything and start over...
          
          Just one thing I do not understand - how did you communicate to staff (and was told some things) if you did not receive emails? Did you just walk in? Or called them on the phone? Why this method did not work this time?
          
          We are all affected here, and we need to understand what happened. Maddie, I would suggest you bring this up to the management attention, I think the issue has to be clarified as much as it could be - for a sake of keeping our community healthy...

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23. 0

    RFoxposted 16 years ago

    This is a writer's site. Where is the personal responsibility for your own work?
    
    Every time you publish a hub the rules automatically come up, so there should be no doubt what HubPages expects from Hubbers.
    In any other facet of professional writing the onus is on the writer to fix what is not right, not the administrators or editors. Their job is simply to point out what is wrong and what needs fixing.
    It is your work. Take responsibility for it.

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    1. 86

       gamergirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       QFMFT.
       
       Maddie - You're doing a FABULOUS job.  Sorry people seem to want to be jerks at you about it.

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24. 86

    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    joniki-
    
    Since your hubs are still there, are unpublished and all, why don't you just take this opportunity to edit them, fix whatever is wrong with them, and then resubmit them?  Hubpages' rules are super simple, but then you've been a member for a loooong time so you should know.  
    
    Insulting members or employees of Hubpages is not the best way to get things fixed.

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    1. 0

       moonieg1971posted 16 years agoin reply to this

       my understanding from joniki's posts is that he doesnt know which hubs need to be fixed. How can he fix hubs that he doesnt know what needs to be fixed?

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25. 86

    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    If there's a pattern of infractions, then there's an obvious pattern of content or links or promotion within the hubs which can be followed which should be easier for the author to figure out, being that they.. you know, wrote the hubs.

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26. 0

    SirDentposted 16 years ago

    joniki have you checked your junk mail to make sure no emails were sent? I believe the personal attacks are uncalled for myself.
    
    I suggest resubmitting the hubs one by one and fixing any problems you have with them as you go. To blame Maddie is just wrong. I don't believe she would single out any one person to flag. I also believe that hub pages wouldn't have made her a moderator then allow her to run wild over anyone. Hub pages is a business and must be run as a business. Personal feelings aren't good to use in business decisions.

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27. STAFF

    Paul Edmondsonposted 16 years ago

    There is a three strikes policy as well.  If a hub gets flagged by us once or twice, your account will be fine.  If there are repeated violations (three or more), then we will close your account and unpublish previous hubs.  In most cases we work with people and they improve.  Some others will improve for a bit, but then revert.  At some point we make a call for the greater community.
    
    Until recently, we largely depended on people flagging hubs for us to review them.  Now, we are better resourced to moderate.  We pay careful attention to the underlying health of the site.  When we keep it clean traffic for everyone grows more quickly, and better hubs are created.

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28. 72

    Peter M. Lopezposted 16 years ago

    Thanks, Paul.  You guys do a great job.  Hopefully this situation can be remedied and everyone can move on.

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29. 67

    WeddingConsultantposted 16 years ago

    I'll echo that- hubpages does a great job here.  I think a tight rein is necessary for a great website with great content.  HP has been doing just that, which is why they're going forward at a rapid pace, even compared to Squidoo!

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    1. 0

       moonieg1971posted 16 years agoin reply to this

       A tight rein would be great and helpful to everyone IF they had been doing that all along. The point is Joniki said he never received any emails prior to his account being flagged and removed.

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       1. 72

          Maddie Ruudposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          The emails were sent.  If he did not receive them, it may be that he had not added HubPages to his safe senders list, and they were redirected to his spam folder.  Even if that were the case, on your Hub Statistics page, you can see which hubs need revision.  If you do not receive an email notifying you of the need of revision, and see the flag in your statistics, common sense would have you email the team email box to see what was wrong.
          
          I don't think this thread will benefit from any further discussion, and I'm closing it to further posting.  If you have questions regarding your own account, or our policies in general, feel free to email us.

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30. 86

    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    Moonie,
    
    I refer you to Paul Edmonson's comment above.  Prior to hiring Maddie on the team has relied largely on the help of honest Hubbers who flag Hubs they find which has issues.  Now they have someone whose sole job on Hubpages is to moderate the content.  The process is going to be much smoother from here on out, though of course the people who have their content axed aren't going to like being caught, no matter how long their stuff has been up.
    
    By the way, did you know one of your own hubs has copy/pasted content?  I think you do. It's probably not good form to write a hub about something and in the middle of it slap up a completely unrelated affiliate link, either.. just a thought.

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31. 62

    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    moonie,
    
    You made a big mistake posting on the forums. Now your own hubs are under scrutiny, and I tell you what - they don't have a chance to survive... Pure clickbank affiliate promotion...

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32. 61

    Jason Menayanposted 16 years ago

    Let me step in and say that we do not unpublish Hubs or ban accounts unless it's very clear there is a pattern of repeated abuse. With each Hub violation, an email is sent (if it's not received, then you might have provided us with a bogus email address, or are simply ignoring our emails), and there is an opportunity to rectify the Hub. As Maddie has shown, the rules are very clear, but the onus is on the author to figure out how the Hub violates and what he/she must do to get it up to spec.
    
    It's disappointing to see users that we have given a second and third chance then pretend they don't know the rules and continue to publish Hubs that don't conform to the rules. And then there are those who fix Hubs, and then, surreptitiously go back and squeeze in more links (hoping we won't notice). Naturally, that sort of deception is not the sort of thing we like to see, but it happens.
    
    This sort of behavior is destructive to the community because it reintroduces poor-quality Hubs into the body of Hubs, and it wastes all of our time.

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