Can you judge a person by his or her looks?

1. 63

   ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

   ON that note...goodnight, really it's 2 am and I am tired of repeating myself.

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   Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago

   And go to bed already!
   
   Don't you know I can't leave an argument until I've won it? My jaw is square! You just can't see it behind my hand!

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3. 63

   ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

   i really have to sleep... you can disagree all you want...zzzzzzzzz

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      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well don't go to sleep now and leave me talking to myself at this point! I have to get up in an hour and a half anyway, I can't go to sleep now!

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   PackSecureposted 14 years ago

   I do find it interesting that identical twins, can have completely different personalities.  Therefore, appearance is not a window of someone.  Thus proving this statement false "Appearances are accurate measures of what a person does habitually and who that person is".

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      earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Gotta second that! I have identical twin granddaughters who are nothing alike except for appearance.

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         ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I was waiting for someone to tackle the twin studies as it has strong implications on genes and appearances.
         
         As I said, twins will have the same predispositions but not the same choices, as twins get older their faces grow less and less a like. Choices are etched on the face.
         
         my premise is a person's nature shows on his or her face. genetics play a part and a person's current direction of choice will not be advertised but it time, it time it will show up as lines, pallor and distortions of the old face.
         
         People who grow old happy would have laugh lines people who grow old sad have frown lines and worriers will have worry lines. the thoughts have footprints in our genetics and then anatomy.

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            Lisa HWposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            There's some truth in this, but the trouble with it is that most faces don't even start to get "etched" until someone is over 40, in some cases over 50; and even then, there are usually not all that many "etchings" until people get quite elderly.  I've known people well over 70 or 80 with very few "etchings"   By the time people are very elderly they can have health problems/pain that affects their expression and a whole lot of other things.  A lot about how much etching is in a face is nothing more than someone making the mistake of getting way too much sun, and sometimes drinking way too much alcohol.  (So if a 27 or 40 year old is way too etched, then, yes, up to a point that tells people something; but that goes back to most people not doing anything to bring on too much etching - which, again, goes back to the thing that there isn't much etching to read until someone is quite along in age.

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      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      yeah she backed off alot from her original "facts".
      
      And she had the nerve to go to bed! No dedication these science writers.
      
      Hmmm... To sleep, or not to sleep.

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5. 73

   myownworldposted 14 years ago

   I hate the word 'judge'....even more so the act of judging anyone - based on their looks, words or even random actions. Since when did we earn that right anyway?

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      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think you look stuck up...  I feel like we disscussed this recently, skinny=beeyotch, and all that?
      
      I know lots and lots of people do judge by looks, but that doesn't mean they are accurate.

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         myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         no that's just my bad laptop cam; plus I had to rush to work...! see, now even poor photography doesn't give one the excuse...!

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            Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            HAHA. I was kidding. I got to go, time for breakfast.
            have fun everyody!! Play nice.  Dont touch any snakes... 

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   2. 63

      ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      well you hate it but it's true...people judge all the time based on looks, its hardwired in our system.  it was a fairly accurate way to judge health, fertility, approachableness etc. that's how we all evolved. by judging mate.

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      1. 73

         myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Lots of instinctive reactions are 'hardwired' into our system; doesn't mean we have to give into them. We do possess the higher sense not to, at least, most of us do.

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         1. 63

            ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            you do it everyday.
            
            this is why we have faces, we display our nature. its all subconscious though you can consciously suspend judgment of a person. Because you don't know what that person's adaptation to his looks are. as i said the arts, wit and other things are attempts to improve chances of getting mates so as to convince potential mates to overlook what is advertised.

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      Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's just something we do naturally, unconsciously. It goes down to our most primal instincts, when for survival we need to instantly determine a threat. Check out this article at NPR about a little girl that has "williams" disease. She is incapable of distrust, she says "I love you" to strangers everyday. How long do you think she would survive in nature? How will she be able to go through life without someone taking advantage of her?
      
      Anyway, the point is, we judge people because we can't help it!
      
      http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … =126141922

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         Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, and I think we gain alot more accurate insight into their intentions based on their movements and the look in their eyes rather than the shape of their chin.
         
         
         The thing is, the only thing these studies are showing is how people are perceived by others, but there is no sound evidence indicating that these perceptions are right.
         
         So, Cecelia, if you want input on your hub, I'd say stick with how our faces may be perceived by others and leave the whites are better at science and wide-faced men are more criminally inclined stuff out of it.
         
         That way you won't be mis-stating the facts.

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      2. 73

         myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I know what you mean, but as I said earlier, we don't let all our instincts dictate us, esp. negative ones. Judging, as in 'accessing' or appraising a situation is natural yes, but jumping to conclusions on that partial knowledge is something else altogether. Whatever our first, instinctive reactions maybe, we should let ourselves remain open and unbiased as much as we can help it, no?
         
         Btw. thank you for this wonderful link...loved it! ".....there are no strangers -- only friends she's not yet met."
         
         I'd rather trust than mistrust any day....

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            Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I agree we need to control our tendency to jump to conclusions, but we also need to trust our instincts, sometimes your "gut feeling" can save you from a world of hurt.
            
            I think we'd all rather trust more, I know I would, but I have simply learned that isn't a good survival strategy.

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               myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I know... my mother still tells me I trust too easily, but I swear I have managed to survive so far...! I don't know, I have this insane belief that if you believe in good things, good things will keep happening for you. To keep giving others the benefit of doubt somehow....
               Very idealistic I know... but I wish we could all stay like little isabelle within always...

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                  Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Maybe you have a touch of the same condition?

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                     myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     

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               ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I see a burly man, walking in unbalanced stride with a scowl on his face, red eyes and slanted eyebrows in an isolated street...i'm going to turn the other way. I'm sorry. but I will not suspend judgment to give that man a benefit of the doubt. his face is telling me dangerous.

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                  Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  The only possibly born with feature you mention is slanty eyebrows, which could very well simply be due to his current expression.
                  
                  You can't use facial expressions, body movement, or aging effects to support your position that natural facial features are indicative of behavioral tendencies.

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                     Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Pandora, you look alot like my sister in law, so I am going to assume you have the same behaviours as she does too. 
                     
                     cecila, sorry if at some point in this I sounded rude, I just have no idea why you opened this thread. I did think you wanted peoples views on it, but now it semes rather like you dont. Either way, I have to go out now, I do hope youll look at my picture and tell me what you think I am like, based on what I look like, it would be interesting to see if you come close?
                     
                     Ill check back in later and see if you had time and felt like it. Have a great day!

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                  2. 63

                     ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     what about eye color, have you read the link or the excerpts i posted?
                     
                     what about correlation of jawline to testosterone.
                     
                     eye size and symmetry is linked to many brain conditions. they are all physical features with associated behaviors.
                     there are clues, and these clues will be consistent.you know them instinctively. you can know them consciously.

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               2. 73

                  myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  And THAT is why life is full of so many different people, each with their own unique way of reacting and perceiving a situation. You see, what one person may fear, could evoke sadness in another, and a need to reach out in yet another....

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                  1. 63

                     ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     i do not argue that. perceptions affect judgment. but that does not mean that just because perceptions can affect judgment that the FACE does not hold clues to one's internal nature.
                     
                     does not invalidate it all, our general capacity to judge a person's appearance does not negate presence of information advertised on the face...there are many studies correlating skin pigment, height, weight, hair coloring eye color to certain behaviors.
                     
                     those cannot be ignored as pseudoscience or invented facts...they are there...people are studying it. WHY? because it is so prevalent you can study it. as for exactly what each of the features mean, modern science have not yet gone to the extent and  claims of Chinese Feng Shui and Ayurveda.
                     
                     read my link on the color of eyes.

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               3. 62

                  Lisa HWposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  In a case like this, though, it isn't his facial features (the shape of his eyes, nose, mouth, etc.) that's "giving off bad vibes" about him.  It's his overall look, the red eyes (which may mean nothing more than that he's got allergies and rubbed his itchy eyes way too much), demeanor, and "style".

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      3. 63

         ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         we can't help it because we can see signs in a person's appearance what their nature is.
         
         these appearances can be cloaked by clothes, shades, make up...but that is why people do this. that is why people try to change their appearance, because appearance is a clue.
         
         congenital brain disability=asymmetric face.
         testosterone = thick eyebrows, square jaw, competitive, sexual libido.
         estrogen = soft skin, raised eyebrows, soft jawline, boobs
         
         http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674%2809%2900916-7
         
         http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m … _21211100/
         
         "Other scientists have proposed that testosterone-influenced physical features in men, such as a big, square-jawed face, reflect strong resistance to disease and the ability to provide for a family. Estrogen-influenced features in women, including small, round faces, also indicate good health, as well as fertility. By this thinking, evolved exaggerations of sex-related facial differences should be seen as signs of physical beauty."
         
         pop science...nope. science becoming popular...yes.

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            Lisa HWposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Science recognizes that there is a universal "standard" of beauty/appeal associated with both sexes.  Studies involving people of all cultures have shown that certain features, associated with the things you described above, tend to be viewed as more appealing.  It isn't how things "should" be.  It's how things are, as far as people generally finding the same things appealing in the different sexes.
            
            Someone's facial features, however, are often just what they happened to inherit from their parents.  I am convinced (based on my own experience with/exposure to a number of infants other than my own, adopted people, etc.; that I could adopt an infant tomorrow who inherited a set of really unattractive features from his birth parents; and if that child has had no brain damage and no genetic predisposition to developing some mental health problem; I would nurture that child to be, generally, the same kind of good natured, decent, person my other three kids are.  An unattractive set of features are often nothing more than two people with "the wrong set of features" having children.
            
            It's reality that people fortunate enough to have ended up with a certain set of features are generally the ones most other people will find attractive (even if the individual isn't one that one finds attractive, as a potential mate for himself - because what is considered "beautiful" and what any one individual finds "attractive" for himself aren't always the same thing).
            
            It would be very wrong for anyone to start trying to pass off the idea that people should be using some set of features to judge a potential mate; because, as I said above, sometimes "bad" features are just bad luck when it comes to someone's mother and father having features that didn't "mix" well.  If you go back to believing that "genetic line" will eventually "guarantee" a "better person" (as a mate) you get back to the kind of thinking Hitler and people who believed in Eugenics was doing in terms of imagining a "Master Race".  That kind of thing is absolutely ignorant because it absolutely disregards the very thing that most impacts a person's personality and character - nurturing and life experiences.
            
            The last time I heard a number like this (maybe 6 years ago or so) it was said that genes are now believed to be responsible for only about 30% of what a person is/what illnesses he develops, etc. 
            
            Based on what I, myself, have seen/experienced in life; I believe that Science will determine that genes have even less impact than the 30% now estimated.   Seeing the ways that genes can be responsible for a predisposition to any number of things doesn't mean seeing the whole picture.   As far the childhood experience goes (in having some impact on the development of facial features as the child grows up), children have their features when they're born.  Even with some impact from long-term, negative, effects on hormones in childhood; there's only so much altering of features that can go on once a child already has his own features.
            
            In response to the kind of thing I've said above, people will often say something like, "We don't like it, but genes do affect what a person is."  My response to that is that this is a case of  "a little knowledge being a (very) dangerous thing" (even with Science knowing as much as it does).  What happens as Science learns more and more about everything could be compared to what would go on if someone took a cake out of the oven before it's finished, just because the person figured the cake had come far along since it began as soupy batter - a disaster.  People without access to all that is behind what is reported about Science, and even scientists, themselves, all can have a tendency to take the "cake out of the oven way too soon" and call it done.

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            1. 63

               ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I agree about most of the things you say. It is dangerous to judge a person by appearance alone. However, the point is that it can be done and people are doing it.
               
               Won't you want to know what your face says?

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6. 63

   ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

   for those who are lazy to read the link:
   
   "Nonvenomous snakes usually have a round pupil in the eye. Venomous snakes in the U.S. (except for the coral snake) have an elliptical pupil like a cat's eye. It looks like a small vertical slit in the middle of the eye. This can be difficult to determine without getting dangerously close, however."
   
   appearance.
   
   and this:
   
   "Eastern Coral Snakes (Micrurius fulvius fulvius) are skinny snakes about 2 feet long. They have rings of red, yellow and black all along their bodies. Their noses are always black. They do not have long fangs and have to actually chew on you to get the venom in. Many snakes look like the coral snake. A rhyme about the order of the colored stripes helps you tell them apart, but don’t get too close! Rhyme: Red and yellow kills a fellow. Red and black is safe for Jack. Coral snakes [venomous] have red and yellow touching; scarlet king snakes [non-venomous] have red and black."
   
   yes but i agree that my example was a bad one. I googled poisonous snakes and there are many that have earthy colors.
   
   good one snake guys!
   
   but then, you can still tell by appearance which ones are poisonous. appearances show nature but then nature tries to hide it with ruses like
   
   skin pigment, clothes, nose jobs, boob jobs and hair pieces.

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      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      snakes with boob jobs and hair peices?

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7. 63

   ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

   CAN is not the same SHOULD

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8. 63

   ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

   I am actually very impressed at the specifics presented about snakes and the adaptation..
   
   I want to thank snake guys for calling that one out.
   
   still, natures can be identified by appearances. because appearances are anatomical and anatomy is functional and function affects behavior (example, man and woman).
   
   adeptness at reading people's appearances are varied of course. the better you are seeing signs on a person's appearance, the higher probability you will find a good mate. so reading people's appearances is also a skill that evolved to sift through ruses...like in the case of
   
   person with large books and in a bikini...large hands, adam's apple
   
   NOT FEMALE...

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   rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

   my son and I can usually tell the difference between a republican and a democrat or a libertarian... it's a little game we play.

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      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Sure but I'd bet you take your clues from more than just the size of their nose or shape of their eyes as Cecelia is suggesting.

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    Audreveaposted 14 years ago

    I'm sure I read a story sometime that Kate Winslett lost a stack of weight by getting her face 'read' & following the instructions most suitable to her individual characterists (based on her face).
    
    Not quite the same thing, but this thread just reminded me.

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       Audreveaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       *characteristics* - it's nearly 11pm on a work night & I plead tiredness

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11. 87

    Shil1978posted 14 years ago

    No, you can't. We should not be judging people by their looks, but the unfortunate truth is we do judge and we do hold biases against people based on their looks. If you have two people who are equally qualified and meet all the requirements for a particular job - would you be suprised if the better-looking one got the job?
    
    There are certain things in life, which we know are wrong and which we know we shouldn't do, but end up doing all the same - if not consciously, subconsciously!!

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    1. 63

       ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       WHY THIS INFORMATION IS USEFUL (and therefore should not ignored nor denied)
       
       your face gives a clue to what messages you are sending others. but the face adjusts itself to your predominant thoughts and will change in time.
       
       choices of behaviors show in the face and we all instinctively know what they signal.
       
       some however are more adept at "judging" what these appearances mean than others. some however are quick to judge and become cruel or fools, or both.

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    ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

    Psychology Today:
    
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evo … l-features
    
    headline : measuring faces : trustworthiness and facial features
    
    JASTOR:
    
    http://www.jstor.org/pss/1126953
    headline : minor physical anomalies and behavior of preschool children
    
    you CAN judge behavior and nature based on appearances. nature shows and advertises itself.
    
    another strong evidence of appearance relating to health and behavior:
    
    http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/praders.htm

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       Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       OK, tell me about me?

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          Poppa Bluesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I see a happy person, warm, loyal and sincere. Very beautiful!

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             myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             me too....and also someone who wants to soar and reach for the skies... but has courage that comes and goes. And who's also a mix of sensitivity, naughtiness, some madness, but with the most generous heart in the world! ok. I'm done!

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             Justine76posted 13 years agoin reply to this

             awww thanks you..well, you got the happy loyal part right.

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          ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          shy, self-conscious but loves to joke around. (that is a judgment based on my instinctive reaction to the face not a scientific fact,k?)

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             ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             humanitarian

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    katiem2posted 14 years ago

    For what ever reason (and yet I'm very thankful) I judge a person by their expression.  They may be hurt, kind, happy or sad, they may be a con, cheat or the best person you will ever know...just look into the expression and you will have the first step to the person which will lead the way.
    
    Thanks and Peace
    katiem2

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       ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       yes its true, expression is an etching of what's going on in the person's mind. it shows in the APPEARANCE of her face.

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    ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

    skin pigment and behavior:
    
    http://philica.com/display_observation. … tion_id=18
    headline :Non-coincidental pleiotropy of pigmentation, brain, and behavior and its evolution
    
    appearance = behavior predispositions.

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    ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

    The premise has sound basis.
    
    facial features, body features are signals of one's nature...but not current direction of choice. although that too will show in a persons expression which is a physical arrangement of features.

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16. 63

    ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

    From Pandora: "It's very dishonest of you to imply I ever said anything about my neighbor."
    
    I never implied that. I'm making an analogy. Saying statistics is wrong because of specifics like my neighbor has no boobs is just like this
    
    "but I know someone who has twins and they aren't alike in behavior at all. "
    
    It would have carried more weight if you cited the twin studies, which someone else did, which i already answered. (Or was i the one who cited it)
    
    choices eventually show in the face.
    
    but twins share common behavioral traits, particularly identical twins. but identical twins do not look exactly alike.
    
    One would have perfect teeth, the other will be slightly bucked teeth. one would have a slightly longer face or a curved spine due to her development in the womb. the other will have a straight spine. both would have the same wavy hair, eyes, small boobs.  Both would raise voice when excited, have the same food preferences.
    
    Both would marry tall men late in life. but will choose different careers--but then they would have the same kind of habits in those careers applied differently.
    
    many studies on twins and most of it boils down to where the choose to go after they're born. but then predisposition will be there. (I have two sets of friends who are twins i've known for a long time...their faces changed in time) specifics are however...not enough to invalidate statistical study.

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    Obscure Divineposted 14 years ago

    With all the various types of cosmetic surgery going on out there, it sort of throws some of your theories in a whirl.

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       ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       that doesn't mean you can't see a person's nature in his face.

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          Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          ...Tell me about Michael Jackson's face, for example.  What did you see in that one?  Well, first, you'd have to pick a face, as he had many different ones over the years.

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             ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             his last face told me that he was not happy with his nose and maybe has low self-esteem. it also tells me that he has a lot of money to spend of cosmetic surgery

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                Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                LOL!  I'm not arguing with that! 

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    Dmianposted 14 years ago

    by physical appearance, maybe if someone has a lean, defined body you can assume that he/she have a good diet and exercise as to how we dress, you can find out more, because it is something you choose, ergo, how you identify yourself, and what you want others to see.

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    ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

    CAN is not the same as CAN DO WELL.
    
    information is there, study upon study show correlation of face to behavior formed by the same hormones.
    
    lines on the faces in old age, skin pigment, eye color, hair color, body time...all signals of who we are.

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    ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago

    Lunch...maybe later. thanks guys, and all your comments whether you agree of not are appreciated. good fight Pandora! I am however going to eat now. and maybe see later if I still have energy to write a hub.

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    brethodgeposted 14 years ago

    I think its not good to judge a person by his or her looks.. they should be given a chance to prove what they are.. and they have all the right to be good to others.. I mean judging a person by just looks is a sick case untill you are a good face reader lols

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       Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Body language can be cultural. A pleasant gesture in one culture can be an insult in another.
       
       Even good face readers can find themselves misreading someone when they find themselves face to face with a person from a different cultural background.

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    ethel smithposted 14 years ago

    Sometimes you can but not always. That said most of us do. Some people just have "nice" faces if you know what I mean. They are not always nice people though.
    We often judge on clothes etc when we should not. When I worked in a museum the thieves who dressed well and appeared upmarket were always successful as no guards were watching them. They were all watching the punk with the scruffy clothes and spikey hair.

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       myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       so true...and hence my aversion for any stereotyping, biases and concluding judgements on people - not only based on their appearances but limited knowledge of who they are.  Human beings (unlike animals) are so complex and so full of surprises that one can never 'sum up' anyone at a glance: the most innocent of faces can mask the vilest of natures; and the hardest of expressions hide a heart as soft as a child's.... And yet even that's not all about who they really are...

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          Rod Marsdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Nazi scientists tried to determine the intelligence of people from counties such as Poland based on the shape of the subject's head. It the shape was close to German then the subject was considered highly intelligent. Needless to say this was not real science and we consider the results today to be rubbish.
          
          I know you can't tell a person's level of intelligence by the way they look.
          
          When I was studying at college there would be breaks in which I'd get a job to help support myself. I worked in a factory during one of these breaks and a man who was simply employed to put caps on bottles like the rest of us was found by me doing something I thought was strange for a factory worker. During our lunch break he was reading a book by Alexander Solschenizyn, a Russian writer who had recently defected to the USA.
          
          I was surprised. This book was heavy intellectual stuff (I had read it myself) and he seemed to be enjoying the read.
          
          He certainly wasn't dressed like an intellectual but then again I wasn't dressed like a college student.
          
          It turned out that he was a doctor from Europe with three languages under his belt and while he was waiting for his papers to clear so he could practice medicine in Australia he was working in a factory. 
          
          Yes myownworld humans are complex and so are their backgrounds.

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          Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          So true yourself. Your last sentence is wonderful, imho, and hits the nail on the head. I'm not who I was last year, and who I was then isn't who I was 5 years prior, and only a couple years prior to that I was a christian! Keep going back and I keep changing. Everyday stuff gets added to who we are, and stuff gets discarded as well.

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             myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             ever changing human nature calls for changes in our opinions too....

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                Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Yep, thank goodness!

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                ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                true true

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    Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

    I can't resist this before "packing it in" on this discussion:
    
    I'm going to post a bunch of pictures of faces below.  Pretend you don't know who these people are (in fact, pretend they're not who they are at all), and pretend you are the "right" sex and age (or pretend the people are younger than in their pictures) to consider each as a potential mate.
    
    Imagine two different scenarios:
    
    One:  You're at a party with these people, hoping to find the "right kind" of mate.  You're hoping to meet someone who is nice, of good character, and may even share some of your interests.  Suppose your interests are finance, business, or science.  Which person would you find the best prospect?  Are you thinking you may have to give up on the idea of finding someone with your interests?
    
    Now imagine you're at some convention with this same group of people.  It's a group of people interested in finance, business, or science.  You're socializing with each person.  Which of these people are you more likely to listen to?  Which are you less likely to think knows what s/he is talking about?
    
    To cover all potential arguments:  Imagine that either of the last three individuals was adopted by two somewhat distant parents who were brilliant scientists or brilliant experts in the area of finance/business; who aimed to have their child follow in their footsteps by making sure that child had the finest education money could buy.  (Or for that matter, imagine any other scenario you can dream up.):
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    She's older here - any difference in how you'd judge her?
    
    
    
    
    
    Here's the same person at around 50 years old:
    
    
    
    
    
    and here's that person around, or over, 60 years old:
    
    
    
    Based only on facial features:  Which of the above would make/already made the best parent?  Who would you listen to when it came to advice about serious matters in the life?  Who would you more likely hire for a high-level position in your company?
    
    Looking at things a different way - knowing who these people really are, do their "mate-worthy" facial features make them a particularly wonderful parent?  Which ones may have been overlooked by teachers in school because they didn't look like the "usual" "academic star"?  Can we tell, based on their facial features alone, if any of these people was mistreated as a child, even if not to the point of turning them into a sociopath?
    
    All that aside, all I know is I've known more than the average number of very troubled, abused, teen girls with absolutely strikingly attractive facial features; and some awfully well adjusted, kind, bright, people with features that weren't too great looking.   People (including scientists) had better be very, very, careful about pushing the facial-feature/better mate/parent/person kind of judging.

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       ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       hmmm...a lot of fears being expressed. like there is a massive fear of being judged.
       
       don't worry, not everyone is adept at judging looks at the moment of sight.
       
       But if you study faces, you can find clues and that takes time. it is easier to just talk to a person.

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          Lisa HWposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I don't think people have a "massive fear of being judged".  At least as far as I'm concerned, I have a very deep awareness of how deeply ugly and misguided it is when people start emphasizing genetics, or even quality of childhood, when trying to judge someone.
          
          Hitler contacted the prestigious Harvard University in order to get some of the "latest scientific information" on eugenics from Harvard.  I've seen films made (or at least used) by the US government in the past, that showed individuals standing in their underwear, as the narrator points out the individual features/treats that show what a "good specimen" this individual is.
          
          Most utter and absolute ignorance that gets spread to society is spread by someone everyone else tends to listen to - whether that's fashion experts, scientists, or fools who write books on the field of human resources who think the slickest smile and handshake will make for the most gifted employee.
          
          I don't think people are afraid they, themselves, will be judged.  Most people have lived with being judged most of their lives and are used to it.  I think most people resist the thinking they're resisting because how "blanket generalizations" without regard for individual variations/circumstances destroys whole lives and even societies.

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             crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I was going to mention this myself, but didn't want to go down that road.  Hitler thought the exact same things she is, and there have been terrible atrocities committed in the field of psychiatry because of thinking like this (being black as a mental disorder, or oppression rising from crainology for instance).
             
             A person's appearance is not a complete map of what is going on, on the inside in any way shape or form.  Biology/genetics certainly have a contributing factor to person's personality, and that same biology/genetics may play a part in the shaping of a person's outward appearance, but there is more in the equation than just that.  A lot more.

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                Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Did you just judge Hitler?  Abominable, very bad, atrocious, you say?   

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                   crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   lol, what came before the and is not related to what came after it - however, it was during WWII that many of the atrocities in the name of psychiatry were committed.

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                      Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Yeah, but after the 'and' you still said "thinking like this."   

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                         crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         "thinking like this" referring to the subject of this thread, not to Hitler

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                            Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            Oh, you say Hitler thought the same thing as this thread, but yet, it is atrocious by your verbiage.  Naughty-naughty, you just judged Hitler.  The man was just trying to clean up the planet much like you clean up your lawn of miscellaneous debris, no?  Easy now; don't judge me, um-k?

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                               crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                               Yes, well, Hitler isn't a very good cleaner now is he, look how many he left behind!

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                                  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                  A lot of folks became fertilizer, so it's your own judgement at the efficiencies of his works and the army behind them that promoted the proper ratio of adequate soil PH.  I agree, there were a lot of Nitrogen molecules that didn't hit the Earth as they should have, but we'll leave that aspect up to the judges? 

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                      Lisa HWposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Much of what came before laid the foundation that allowed what came during WWII.

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                         Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Yep. I just jumped to last post and saw this, yer so right.

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                         Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         That's a vague statement.  Hell, let's go further back than that brief period of turmoil...

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                            crmhaskeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            Ya, let us just blame the Vikings.

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                               Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                               Nope, but y'all can judge and decide while I humbly watch the contradictions unfold amid the community.  Ha-ha!

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                      Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      You don't think so? It seemed to me as I was reading up on it all that the decades prior to WW2 was a time of the strongest prevalence of this sort of thinking. Even in America we committed atrocities due to this flawed movement, giving forced sterilizations to at least 65,000 women. In fact, in this manner, we were the first to try and wipe out undesirable traits.

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                         Lisa HWposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         In fact, as late as in the 1960's in America, there was enough "left-over" "attachment" to the idea of eliminating genetic "issues" that in Vermont, for one place, there were people (with mental disabilities) kept in mental hospitals and told they could not leave without consenting to being sterilized.  And today we have women looking for "Nobel-prize" level sperm donors (and paying "Big Bucks" for the donation) in the hopes of having the brightest possible (and presumably "best specimen") of a kid. 
                         
                         Of course once these clowns have their babies, they're so wrapped up in making sure they nurture their intellect and talents well; the children are often bright and "exceptional" - and everyone gets to believe it was all about the "prize sperm".   

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                   Lisa HWposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Now that was a guy with an unappealing face and one nasty hair-do.      I would have judged him, but I don't think even his unappealing exterior gave any indication of what a sub-human he was.

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                      Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      So, you do believe in judging others?  Interesting...since you often proclaim otherwise?

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                         Lisa HWposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Do I believe in judging others?  Generally, no - but do I make the occasional exception for someone like Hitler?  Sure.       What is it that Emerson said about "hobgoblins of a foolish consistency and little minds?"   

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                            Obscure Divineposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                            I knew you were making an exception... Ha-ha!  I was just being biased towards the idea of population control, that's all. 

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    IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years ago

    Girl, I just love your style.  Why?  Because you ask some really terrific forum topics. 
    
    Yes, I must admit, I've been guilty of that.  Then I myself grew old and got fat, so............
    
    But sure people judge based off appearances.  Should we, NO.  Do we, of course.  It is just unfortunate I'm on the ugly side of things now.  It is tougher for fat people and ugly people to get the good jobs and stuff.  But it is what it is, and on the lighter side of things, I've worked damn hard to get my curvy figure.  When I finish school, I just might have a hard time getting work, but I get to eat all the dark chocolate I want.
    
    Ceciliabeltran, I'm so glad you found your way to our forums.  I really do appreciate your forum topics very much.  Nice work kiddo, nice work.

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    Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

    Intimate Evolution ("ugly side of things": -   )
    
    The thing is, though, it isn't just people who have extra weight, or are "of a certain age" (advanced age or even being too young or too young looking) who may be less likely to get any particular job. 
    
    Children are often kidnapped and murdered because some weirdo freak "looked nice" (so the child didn't see him as "stranger" he shouldn't talk to).  Ted Bundy's looks apparently fooled a lot of people.
    
    In high schools everywhere there are girls who have the same kind of look that Olivia Newton John or Valerie Bertinelli had as young girls; and most of us saw that not too many people saw them as future physicists because "the world" has told us nobody who looks like "the girl next door" is likely to ever become the next Einstein.
    
    It can the forty-year-old with a head full of prematurely gray hair, or the forty-year-old who looks twenty five, who don't get the job.  It can be the five-foot-six-inch/super-slim, guy, or the guy with a receding chin.  It's not even always about who gets a job or who gets a date.  It's just about who gets listened to in day-to-day life; and I've seen more than my share of people "on the uglier side of things" who get listened to more than people who look too young or too "soft" or who have light-colored eyes without the "bolder" look of thick lashes, so they look "weak".
    
    The world is full of guys who were taken in by "Olivia Newton-John" kind of faces, only to marry someone and find out they were an overbearing, mean, "monster".  No matter what someone looks lie, there's just way too much about them that can't possibly be seen/judged based on their facial features (or even a lot of other things about their appearance). 
    
    This is a "thing" of mine, because (among other reasons) I've seen how people will believe what someone with "an honest face" (and big, round, honest, eyes) will say, regardless of how true it is; or else how people will believe a certain kind of voice.

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       Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Ted Bundy didn't just fool the women he murdered he also fooled the judicial system in a number of ways. He was a lawyer and the powers that be saw him as a future judge. He had a steady girlfriend so there seemed to be no reason for his monthly escapades.
       
       There is a tendency to believe that only loneliness can drive a man to prey upon women in this fashion. This is of course sometimes true with other serial killers but not with Bundy.
       
       He was wired different. If on his monthly quest for a victim a woman ignored his overtures then they were safe. If they allowed him into their life then they were going to die. The only exception to this rule was when he escaped from custody and killed a whole heap of women all at once so that when he was caught again he would get the death penalty. Yes, he did change his idea about being executed after ten years in prison but that's another story.
       
       Anyway he was in a sense killing his mother every time. He was illegitimate at a time in America when there was a stigma against people who were and he hated his mother for it. So any woman of about the same age she was when she fell pregnant and who is a college or university student like his mother is fair game so long as she appears to be 'easy.'
       
       Bundy didn't have a fully functioning ego. He had an id and a superego but not that essential component most of us have that allows us to differentiate between right and wrong and to understand other people's feelings. This does not mean that he was not highly intelligent or that he couldn't fake emotions or respond to other people's emotions when he had to and do a fine job of faking it.
       
       Bundy as  Lisa has pointed out was handsome but with an invisible chip on his shoulder. A case of most people not being able to judge him correctly because he was very good at pretending to be sane.

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    Greek Oneposted 14 years ago

    I have met many beautiful women with whom I thought I might like to sleep with them.
    
    After sleeping with them, I found that my original judgment was accurate.
    
    So yes, at times, we can indeed judge people by their looks.
    
    

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       Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       Clever man.

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       Lisa HWposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       but that's a-whole-nother kind of matter, isn't it....     

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    myownworldposted 14 years ago

    Reading this, I'm thinking to myself, what's worse: judging someone by their looks... or their words...? Both I suppose. Yes, how can this ever be right? No amount of argument can convince me otherwise... I really must have one those 'mistrust' genes missing I guess...
    
    edit: Lisa great input throughout!!! you have a hub on your hands...!

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    Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

    My own world, I think the thing is that judging people on anything, by itself, isn't the greatest thing to do.  There's that hard-to-define, "overall-thing", the makes up who a person is/what he does. 
    
    If I use my own writing as example, I ask myself if someone could judge me by it.  I don't really think so.  I think first they need to believe that what I've written is what I truly believe, and is factual.  Then they need to realize that no matter what impression the writing (or whole bunch of writing) creates, even if everything written is true and accurate, there's a lot of stuff that won't show up (how often I see the humor in things, or don't' whether I yell at people in stores or don't, whether I cheat on my taxes or look in people's medicine cabinets or don't).
    
    Just a picture of my face wouldn't tell you any of that stuff either, though.  Even a ten-minute visit in person (so you could see my face) wouldn't tell you much.
    
    I'd say, if someone is hiring someone else for a job, the writing would be a better bet (although that writing would have to be submitted "under penalty of perjury".
    
    Of course, I suppose if it were a simple, "Good Person/Evil Person" judgment, you'd have to go with overall gut instinct on either the writing or the in-person impression - and just know that all you were getting was a "reading".

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       myownworldposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       exactly, hence the limitations of all these so called judgements! Just fallible attempts at knowing someone, that should not turn into 'finalities'....but keep growing as we get to know more than just basics about others. In other words, let our minds stay open and free from hard conclusions and biases..

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    Lita C. Malicdemposted 14 years ago

    I don't judge a book by its cover, just as I don't judge one by his face value, whether it is good-looking or not. I'm happy with anyone who or anything which gives me back what I feel for him/it. Thanks!

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    Pandoras Boxposted 14 years ago

    I gotta go here soon, and not sure I'll be back on tonight, so want to say one more thing.
    
    Every 'study' which ever concluded that physical features were indicative of behavior was later proved wrong. The theory experiences a revival of some sort every once in a while, usually based on somebody's prejudisms -by which I am not referring to Cece or anyone in particular, just referring to history.
    
    The current studies are no different so far, other than that now even the conducters of these studies are saying their results are inconclusive.
    
    There's no reason to believe this stuff is true. Sure it sounds fun, getting a personality reading, and so I'm linking to a different kind of reading, just for the fun of it.
    
    Finger readings! Yes indeed, just match up your finger to the pictures shown and find out all about yourself!
    
    You know, if you're really bored.
    
    http://physiognomyinfo.com/tag/fingers- … e-reading/

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       Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I just looked at that link.  (Too bad about those unfortunate, sharp-fingered, people, eh?    )

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          Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah it was harsh! That was a part of the eugenics movement though, believe it or not. Pointy or blunt fingers. Just too weird. And this only about 100 years ago.
          
          Bad, bad science.
          
          I'm off. See ya'll tomorrow probably.

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    ceciliabeltranposted 13 years ago

    MY premise had always been
    
    CAN YOU JUDGE A PERSON BY HIS LOOKS? the answer is yes you can and yes we do. Piles of data will show that stereotyping is second nature to us.
    
    But as many of you have pointed out, can doesn't mean should.

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       Lisa HWposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       ...but "looks" usually means, as said earlier, overall "looks" - hairstyle, clothes, demeanor, movements, etc. etc.  "Looks", if defined only by shape/look of individual facial features by themselves?  No.

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          ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          yes, eye color, skin color, hair color, fat, thin, muscular. body. thanks again.

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       Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       And people have pointed out to you cecil how we can get it wrong.
       
       There are cultural aspects.
       
       Age can play a role.
       
       Intelligence can be there whether the person is fat, thin, tall, short, etc.
       
       Someone who is good looking to one group might be ho hum or even unattractive to another group.

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    ceciliabeltranposted 13 years ago

    THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR COMMENTS, I would be closing this thread now. But feel free to hijack it because really that's what I would do. sometimes you just need to hang, ya?

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       myownworldposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you for such an interesting discussion...now do take some rest! Was beginning to worry a little...
       
       
       edit: oops I think this thread will not let you go so easily....!

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    Jeff Berndtposted 13 years ago

    Can you judge someone based solely on looks?
    
    Absolutely. People do it all the time.
    
    Should you? That's an open question.
    
    Will you get an accurate read on someone based on how thick their lips are, or how widely spaced their eyes are, or how long their nose is? No. You may have heard of the pseudoscience called "phrenology." Adherents believed that the shape of one's skull, among other physical traits, determined one's personality and proclivities. But it doesn't; this has been shown by observation and experimentation.
    
    But often, you can get a good read on someone based on aspects of their appearance that they can control.
    
    If I see a fellow walking down a city street in brightly shined shoes, a well-tailored dark pinstripe suit, clean-shaven, with a short haircut, I can assume that he's a white collar worker, probably a banker, lawyer, or low-level executive of some kind, especially if it happens to be about 8:45am, around noon, or a bit after 5:00pm. He's probably on his way to or from work or lunch.
    
    But I can't tell if he's a good employee or a goof-off, a loving husband and father or distant and cold to his family, straight or gay, in debt up to his eyeballs or in the black.
    
    On closer observation, I may notice that although he's clean-shaven, his fingernails are bitten down to the quick, and his well-tailored suit shows a lot of wear at the cuffs. That tells me he's in some kind of distress, probably financial, and I may have been wrong about his profession: he may be on the way to or from a job interview.
    
    Do these guesses matter at all? Nope.
    
    Guesses like these do matter when somebody is asking you for a job, a loan, help with a flat tire, &c.
    
    If someone looks like you look, you're more likely to view them favorably. If someone looks very different form the way you look, you're more likely to view them with suspicion.
    
    There's an old hitchhikers' maxim: "When hitching, try to look like the sort of person you want to pick you up."

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       Justine76posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I like this answer. Some people are really good at "reading" body language, clothing style etc...but guessing a personality based on the color of the eye seems far fetched to me.

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    Lady_Eposted 13 years ago

    We can certainly judge a person by his or her Thread posted online.

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       Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Maybe that is the best way to go Lady E.

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    alexandriaruthkposted 13 years ago

    I think that socialization does it not features

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       Rod Marsdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Well you got socialization of the 21st Century right here alexandriaruthk!

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          alexandriaruthkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          hehe

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    thisisoliposted 13 years ago

    I'ld like to say you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, however a lot of I have judged people on their looks and been proved right.

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    naczxposted 13 years ago

    I feel sometimes it may be right, and sometimes it's worng, so it is hard to say wether we can judge by looks or not. And I think it's better to judge a person by affiliating with him for a period of time.

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