Today it is 36 days that I live without money. It is a wonderful feeling to be free and not to depend on the activities of criminals - the banks and the financial system who steal other people's money - and their slaves - the politicians who keep this insane system alive. Join me, and the world will know peace!
How do you live without money? Do you live on the streets?
Although I can't claim to live without money I do know what you mean.
I made a major life change and now have no house or money in the bank etc etc - and it is totally liberating. I am not tied to anything in any one place and can do anything I choose that I can get to work out. I am now enjoying the most fantastic life I could have have dreamed of.
You stick with your choice and be happy, most people are so stuck in their own mind that they cannot begin to understand.
Very difficult to join you. some of us have kids, parents to take care of, duties, and so on. Good for you if you can do it. It must be very relaxing !
Most of the time I lived in a monastery where I work for free food and accomodation, for almost two weeks I was hitchhiking and couchsurfing.
Please write come hubs on this - i'm extremely interested, and like to live in a similar way.
Tell us more!
Doesn't sound like a recipe for peace to me. Sounds like a recipe for an increased suicide rate.
and the places where you were couchsurfing? how do they pay for their couches? homes? heating? food? etc? I imagine they must have some money? which means they must be part of the system, which means, you are still part of the system...
So what you meant to say is that you are living without your own money. Some body paid for the couch and the roof over it.
I'm not so sure the world would find your view of living this way as "liberating."
Homeless might be a word that a lot of people would use.
What do you propose for a life-style of couples with children? Aging population, people with chronic disease, mentally and physically challenged, etc.?
I think for you personally this may be a great thing. And obviously there are many who would also subscribe to such a life-style, and I think that's genuinely good, if it's good for you.
However, I think the invitation you offer is a little short-sighted, and I mean no disrespect.
I don't feel homeless, my home is a spaceship called Planet Earth. The human history knows many examples for intact communities which were able to take care of all members of the community including children, the elderly and disabled people, but these intact communities were destroyed by money driven forces, one example is the colonization of Africa.
plus, somebody has to pay for the church and its food and the couches for couchsurfign and the houses those couches are in....
if everybody up and quit working.....
Forgive me, I am new to this site and the blogging world, but how are you living without money? If you were truly free you would sever ties with the media that promotes "the activities of criminals-the banks and the financial system who steal other people's money, etc.." It is the media and the internet that really feeds the insanity. Otherwise, you would be living in ignorant bliss with your money.
Amazing that you managed to post in the forum without a computer that money bought, on the internet that money bought and using electricity that money bought, all without having money. Perhaps by using money from someone else before the banks "stole" it?
Even when living in a monastery, the food and lodging are not "free" as you have exchanged your labor for it. You simply used barter instead of money - not much difference to me.
Even the concept of couch surfing is foreign to me - while fine for a short time, extended periods become little more than begging your way through life. I prefer to pay my own way in life, giving as I receive, which usually means exchanging my labor for a the medium of exchange called money.
When you work for money you have to pay taxes, when you spend your money you have to pay taxes. This tax payer's money is spend by the politicians to buy weapons, fight wars, support criminals (the banks).
Living without money?
The very concept negates the entire foundation of our existence. Human beings live to create. They create their future through their actions. Money is just a tool humanity created.
The fact that you claim to live without money is an out-right lie.
You cannot live your life without money, proof is in the Omish who do live without technology. They still require money. Even a homeless person requires some sort of money, because the streets cannot provide everything.
You claim to exchange work for food, but the food you eat was paid for by someone, in some way. You working for food is no different than someone who did part time work for a paycheck.
I would have to say, your way of thinking, does not suit anyone, and should not even suit yourself. Yet, you find it or consider it free??? Boy is your vision skewed.
Cagsil - I would have to say that it is not necessary to insult this guy with your narrow understanding. Just because you can't see it does not mean it has no value, or is not a workable lifestyle - it just means that you can't see it.
Ignorance on your part, yet you see nothing. I get it. Have a great day.
No I don't think you 'get it' at all. Maybe with a bit of real life you may be able to get out of the strangely reasoned confusion that you appear to have created. In the meantime a little politeness would not go amiss, especially when you don't know what you are talking about.
You're too funny, you should have been a comic.
Get a life dude. Half the time you open your mouth in refute what others say, you just run off on much that means nothing.
Confusion? To you maybe and I can see why, even if you cannot.
I think it is clear to everyone how confused you are, but it is your right to believe what you think, measuring real life against it is just going a bit too far.
Run off on much that means nothing ? - to you I guess it wouldn't mean anything, a bit outside your box I expect.
The concept of money negates the entire foundation of our existence.
There was a small group of.individuals that lived off the..land in the wilderness of the western USA. They lived in caves huntednand gathered and grew what they needed. They had no modern conveniences. The last of.the.group.just passed at the age of 95.
True story:A young lady in Washington DC owned a small bakery.The IRS visited her because she only paid 70% of her taxes,they asked her why.Her response was"I don't support 30% of what the Government does with my taxes".The agent informed her that the rest of her taxes would be garnished from her income.The lady shifted to a Barter only system and eliminated money from her life.Other folks have been joining her for some time.They call it"the silent revolution"
So did the electric company providing power for her bakery accept chickens in trade? Or doctors? Probably had gas ovens to bake in - the gas company accept loaves of bread?
Even Amish farmers have had to capitulate to modern equipment to run dairies and such that sell to the public. A bakery is highly regulated for safety and will require such things as cleaning supplies paid for in cash, not barter. It just isn't possible to operate a business today of any size at all on the barter system.
Don't believe everything you read.......
Problems can all ways be solved.At least she made a start rather than resigning herself to the same old same old.I believe it was Jefferson who said the greatest form of patriotism is decent.That young lady made a point and that's whats important.
BTW I don't believe everything I read.Niether do I except who I read in the forums as an expert or athority on a subject.When you make a statement like that you only detract from your own credibility.
everyone has their own journey. at least you found yours. many never do.
I once read about a girl who lived off the streets in a big city. She was saying that she did not want to live a normal life because she wanted to be completely independent and free.
But the truth is she was actually COMPLETELY dependent on everyone! She crashed for the nights at friends homes, or the alleys that the city upkeeps.
She got food from dumpsters,,, which belong to who? And who put that food in there? Or she panhandled for money. She washed up at service stations or the YMCA,,, who owns those?
So,,,, she was dependent on others to give her money, to give her food, to give her a place to stay. Being homeless in a city at least you are completely dependent on everyone else around you!
But this thread is about working in exchange of food and shelter ,instead of working full time for somebody.
There's a point here that I think many people have missed:
Money is not exclusively synonymous with value.
Sure, money is *a* way that value can be stored, transferred and measured, but it's certainly not the only way.
Barter and trade based economies are evidence of that.
I think the post originator's perspective in this regard was a reaction to the disconnect that exists between value & worth.
Worth these days is almost exclusively measured by the value a person can contribute to society.
Which is fine in itself.
Except that now perspectives on value have been so dominated and skewed by money that people can no longer see value beyond a dollar sign. As a result, the worth of a person is measured by the financial value they contribute - which I think is fundamentally wrong.
We've ceased to be humans, and have instead become consumers.
There is no longer a genuine relationship between the value of money and the "value" it creates. Climate change is a perfect example.
Once most international currencies were detached from the gold standard, the value of most currencies became detached from any finite constraints. If a dollar - and the value it represents - is not literally "made from gold" or at least partly, then where does it derive it's value from?
Without physical constraint, there has arisen a global economic system predicated on infnite growth and expansion. The world is very obviously finite. The result is a whole lot of physical activity undertaken without due consideration to the finity of our environment. The result is that natural systems kick in to correct the imbalance.
Instead, value is created through an arbitrage of violence and manipulations of the perception of power. It is no surprise that the value of a dollar has more to do with the military and political standing of a nation than with the amount of gold it has to underwrite the value it allows markets to say it has.
To say that one "lives without money" is not to say that they live without value. Value can be contributed in many different ways - either through trade, or exchange of labour, among others.
An example: If I want lamb, I will find a sheep farmer and come to an arrangement where I work for him in exchange for a defined amount of lamb. It's the same if I want eggs. I will find a farmer with hens and work for them.
Essentially, you are engaging in a type of "skill arbitrage."
The "cost" of him/her providing lamb/eggs is proportionally less than for a person who does not produce them and must acquire them with money.
The reduced "cost" at which they can provide me food, and I can provide them labour, combines to create a win-win situation. As generally the amount of labour I give them is far more than they could afford to pay me for, and the amount of food they give me is far greater than I could afford to buy.
None of this is to say that you won't have to interact with money at some point - it's almost impossible to avoid interacting with "the system" without living a truly basic existence.
But the quest for a more worthwhile, sustainable and human alternative to money is certainly worth striving for.
I live - by and large - without money. I can't lie: it's tough. But I enjoy the challenge that comes with it, and the consciously moral intention behind every day. I enjoy finding value in others that extends beyond the dollars they have in their wallet, and I enjoy people finding value in me. I recongise it's not for everyone, but the essence of it all most certainly is.
When we have healthy, capable people - who by any other standard have so much they ould give to society - literally taking each other's lives because they "don't have enough money" then I think it's time to re-examine the foundations and principles that system is built on.
If I may be flippant, the more change we have - the more Change we need ;-) Money - in it's current form - is costing us all way too much.
Money gets it value from its absence. For a dollar to be worth anything someone must need it first or it is just a bit of paper. Added value comes from those who want it, that makes the value artificially high above the trading use of it.
Not having money means that someone somewhere does not need it, if those that just wanted to accumulate it (greed) were dispensed with then poverty would reduce, if not disappear.
"If those that just wanted to accumulate it were dispensed with"
You obviously haven't thought through the implications of what you've said here.
The fact is that there are a quite a few people for whom "greed", aka the desire to make money, is the key motivating factor in their lives.
Whatever you personally think of this, you're not going to persuade such people to voluntarily give up what motivates them. If you want to - as you put it - "dispense" with them, then you're going to have to use violence.
In other words, you've made the classic mistake of thinking that two wrongs make a right, and that the end justifies the means.
Sorry but they don't, and it doesn't. And I can't say that I like the thought of living under the sort of regime that you seem to be advocating - it's been tried in places like North Korea and the former USSR, with singular lack of success.
That's true: scarcity is the overriding factor that determines value in the current monetary system.
Scarcity used to be determined by natural constraints (ie, the availability of gold). However, scarcity is now manipulated by reserve banks, and the value is created at will - borrowed from the future if you like - without regard to its *actual* worth.
But I think that's the problem. And I guess that's the point I wanted to make in my post.
By using a system where scarcity is hard-wired into the creation of value, we live in a system which necessitates the existence of "losers" for there to be "winners" - I can only "have" as long as you "have not."
It's a recipe for disaster.
We need to move past scarcity to abundance. Why should what I have be more valuable because my neighbour cannot have it? It's a system that is built to bring out the worst in people.
Rather, we need a system where value is created by abundance. Where what I have increases in value when what my neighbour has increases in value.
We've all built and bought into a system where we know someone will lose. I don't think it strains credulity that we can build a system that lets everyone win. We just need to start trying, and I think the first step is in disconnecting from "money" and reconnecting with the inherent value we all possess.
As for "dispensing" with those who are greedy - I cannot endorse that. Eliminating people who do not agree with us is - aside from being quite horrible - completely unproductive. Greed is an inherent part of human nature. What we need is a system that channels that emotion to a positive outcome.
For instance, I am "greedy" for my own wellbeing, and the wellbeing of others. I think most other people are too. At least they would be if they had access to a system where the benfit of others did not come at the expense of their own benefit.
We need to move from a mindset of scarcity to abundance...
It's not just scarcity - it's demand as well. If I'm one of the few people who wants to buy a particular item, then the price of that item is going to be lower than if there were a lot of demand for that item.
I don't believe in the "I can only have as long as you have not" theory. My owning something or earning money doesn't necessarily force someone else into poverty (OK, I can see situations where it *might* do that, but it's not a given by any means).
Forgot about this thread:-) You're right - demand does play a role as well. But both supply and demand are functions of scarcity in the natural environment - not seperate of it. The laws of supply and demand as enumerated in economics reflect this reality.
The laws of supply and demand are - I believe - immutable. It's their basis in the mentality of scarcity which I believe may be reversed to create a system whereby value - and therefore worth - are compounded as they are shared.
You're partly right there. I don't think that we should necessarily abandon the concept of "earning." It's a useful concept that underpins much more positive sides of our nature (earning respect, friendship or love for instance), seperate from money.
But insofar as we live in a finite world, then yes - the fact that you have something will most certainly impact my ability to have the same thing. The difference is in the perceptibility of that impact.
From oranges to diamonds, scarcity is a reality born out of the finite nature of the world, accelerated by the accompanying expanse in our own appetites beyond the ability of naturally self-sustaining systems to cope with them.
Oranges are a good example. However they are grown (organically, commercially - whatever), an orange is the product of a natural system/s (photosythesis, growth etc) drawing upon finite resource/s (minerals in the soil, water, etc).
Now, your having an orange will not in and of itself perceptibly impact my ability to also have an orange. The natural systems underwriting this process are robust enough to cope with this level of load. You'll only ever notice it when we ramp up the stakes.
Say we give 1000 oranges to every man, woman and child on the planet, every single day of the year, continuously. Very quickly the natural systems underwriting the production of oranges will be strained beyond their capacity, becoming irreperably damaged.
Now take away the orange, and replace it with a diamond. The scarcity of diamonds is much more pronounced and perceptible. And at some point, we will have removed all of the available diamond in the world, and it will be thier availability purely which will affect their "value."
I use the examples of oranges and diamonds to demonstrate that scarcity is not just in the obvious things - like diamonds. It's everywhere. Everything comes from somewhere. And if it didn't come from space, then it came from the earth. And won't return there as long as you are in possession of it.
Which is fine - as long as we realise that we can't keep acquiring infinitely. It's physically impossible.
This is broadly what is happening now - vis a vis global warming & climate change.
It is our ability to balance on this knife edge of - to manipulate natural systems at their very limit which has allowed us to progress as we have, and overstep ourselves to the point where we can "progress" ourselves into adversity.
I've diverged a little bit there, but in this way you can see that scarcity is a reality - that your having something does indeed impair my ability to have that same thing. It's just a question of the perceptibility of this impact.
It used not be very noticeable - we could drive around on cheap petrol to our hearts content. But as the human population has increased in size, the perceptibility of the impact of scarcity is rising rapidly. Peak oil is part of it. Water shortages are part of it. The natural gas politics is part of it. Increasing political tension is part of it.
And the economy ispart of it too. Much more so than many people realise or understand.
In light of all that, I think maybe it is a question of scale. Maybe by reducing the amount of "stuff" we "need" we give the natural systems from which we derive our existence time to replenish.
As much of a reality as scarcity is, if we can find a way to live that does not push as and the envrionment that supports us beyond its own natural constraints, then we owe it to ourselves to find it. We are the ones who will suffer if we don't.
That's why I like to live without money as much as possible.
I dont think I could live like that...im to wired to machines!
Each of us has a journey to face and we must ready for it, and im happy that you find yours.
Interesting thread this one! Someone once said to me that Self worth is not the same as Nett worth - I took this on board, was lucky enought to be able to give up my job and spend more time with husband and family. I have much less money, I couldn't live without any but I pay my bills and have a much happier life than when I was trapped in the 9-5 (or in my case 8-6 (or 7)). Chaucer said the 'love of money is the root of all evil' - he is misquoted often as saying 'money is the root of all evil' - there is a big difference and it is the greed and grasping and cheating and stealing that has got the world into the mess it is in (in my opinion anyway).
If you're using internet then that means either you or someone else is paying to ISP. In that case, how this is a life without money ?
I have to agree with Cagsil 100%. Money is a tool and nothing else. If you are living in a society you have to work and produce something for yourself and other people. You have to pay taxes. It will support sick and old people, schools, police, what not. Otherwise you are a FREE LOADER and a BUM. Sorry. That means somebody else works for you and provides food, shelter, clothing, other necessities for you. You are not living free, you are using other peoples money, products, labour. That means you do not want to give anything, but you are willing to get something that other people created: food, shelter, a bed you sleep on, a hat you are wearing, a cardboard you put under you sorry butt in winter, sitting idly on the frozen pavement. How nice! I would love to sit and do nothing but who is going to pay my rent, to help my paralised husband in a very bad nursing home? Yesterday I gave all my savings to a lawyer so he might be able to save my son from going to prison. It's life. It's how society works. If you don't want want to live like that - go to the desert, grow your own cactus there, drink what god will send you, wear figs leaf and be happy. If you are sitting on the corner of a busy street and telling everybody that you are free - you are just the burden to the society and to yourself. If you do not have money (earned not stolen) to support yourself and to help others who needs your help - you are burden to the rest of us.
'Take from rich - give to the poor' - tried already, not working!
'Kill all rich - distribute everything evenly' - tried in the USSR for 70 years - disaster, not working either.
Go back to the Earth, forget watercloset, TV,car, - I don't think so.
So if you are saying you live free without money it's a lie. it's a child's fret: I will kill you Mom, and will be living by myself happily without you. Not going to happen, sorry.
Living without money in today's society is pretty tough. There is no NEED for money, but it does make life "easier." You don't have to grow your own food, build your own house, build your own car, make your own electricity, produce your own gas, perform your own surgeries.. the list can go on and on. Those are all luxuries that some people have been so accustomed to they can't live without. I can see why someone would want a more simple life, but then there are people who go too far with greed as well.
Just living a balanced life is good enough for me. Make some money, spend it only on essentials. Take a trip occasionally to see the world. It all depends on the person and their experiences/situation I guess.
The economic growth, stock market and hifi economic growth of the country is of no use to the ordinary people of developing/underdeveloped country where the govt does not even provide basic amenities.
Millions of poor people in India who go to bed without food and with no roof above their head may not be really interested to know that India is a nuclear power and one of the fastest growing economies in the world!
I wish somebody could draw a graph comparing how fast the economy is growing and how much faster the corruption level is growing...
living life without money is the ultimate illusion - I think if you honestly examine this you will see that you are living your life without YOUR OWN money and living it using OTHER PEOPLE'S money! Which is not necessarily a bad thing - since other people sometimes have plenty to spare - and they like to be beneficent - however, live entails eating, shelter and energy consumption - somebody has to pay for these even if it isn't yourself! I've known a couple others who told me they are very proud of themselves for living without money but when we looked at it closely together we found that their parents, their church, or others were actually paying! and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing - to be clear about that!
People always give something, whether others realize it or not. In a monastery everyone earns their way, they just don't consume much. They keep the community together and it is not a bad life. Before others start labeling people "bums" or "freeloaders" they need to see the whole picture and realize that "having a job" isn't what its all about. There are all kinds of ways to live. I'm getting a bit tired of this world where people are expected to all live alike - 9 to 5 job, mortgage, 2.3 kids, savings accounts, insurance - and on and on! There are definitely other ways to live. I wouldn't dream of suggesting that everyone should live the way I do - why do others suggest that their way is the only one?
Agreed, what's described in this thread is not a way to live without money...in order to live without money, you have to be able to produce your own resources for life, not just feed off of someone else's. I do know some people who truly do live without money...they hunt, fish, forage, and produce all of their own food, shelter, and clothing (they are not, as leeberttea asserted a while back, all gone...amazing that the media would stretch the truth a little, I know). These people are very rare because there are few places in the world where this is still possible; unfortunately, the couch-surfers who liberate themselves by adding to a hardworking person's financial burden are not at all rare.
I lived without money once and I agree that it can be very liberating, that is untill you're standing in the pouring rain, soaking wet, freezing your butt off and contemplating picking through trash cans for thrown away food because you haven't eaten in two days.
I'll take the money. Being financially independent is way more liberating.
As a Freeman On The Land, I refuse to accept Federal Reserve Notes as payment for my labor.
I will accept shelter food or anything else with actual value.
I will not and do not work for instruments of debt.
I will mow lawns, clean cellars, babysit, pet sit, anything, but not for a fiat currency with no value.
If you provide me with a home cooked meal I will provide several hours of labor. Much more if you can provide residence.
WOW, I'm seriously impressed. There seems to be no end to the interesting and exciting types of people one can come across here on HP.
I don't mean any disrespect asking this, but I just have to ask, do you make any income with your hubs and if so, what form of currency do you accept, since you don't take Federal Reserve Notes or instruments of debt? Again, I don't mean any disrespect, I'm just curious how you get paid if you don't accept money.
Former teacher and psychologist, Heidemarie Schwermer, has lived successfully without money since 1996 in Germany.
To help poor families, she has set up a bartering network, and gives away all money she receives to the needy; she doesn't need money, so she gives it to those who do.
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