what's WRONG with poor people in the united states

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   gmwilliamsposted 10 years ago

   [Disclaimer: This post is not referring to the hard-working working poor who want better opportunities for themselves and for their children; the poor who CAN'T help themselves due to being physically, mentally, emotionally, and/or psychologically challenged; our blessed elderly people; the unemployed who really CAN'T obtain jobs in this precarious economy; and those who are recently downsized, fired from their jobs who are unemployed through no fault of their own. ]
   
   
   There have been various social programs implemented in America with the purpose of improving the status of the lower socioeconomic classes. There was even implementation of welfare programs so that the poor would not fall further into the socioeconomic abyss.  However, despite these programs which help many poor people move into the middle and upper middle class, there is STILL an underclass. 
   
   Most of them have NO ONE to blame but themselves. They are mired in a passive and fatalistic psychopathology. They have an OWE ME mentality with no sense of self-responsibility nor self-accountability, wanting for others to rescue and lift them up at every conceivable opportunity. They have no concept of planning and strategizing for the best future outcome. They live in the moment, only being considered with basic self-gratification, forget about future consequences as far as they are concerned.
   They act at the basest primal level. They have a distinct psychology and modus operandi vastly different from that of the middle, upper middle, and upper socioeconomic classes.
   
   No, I REFUSE TO and DON'T feel an iota of sympathy for such people. Many poor people subconsciously are against improving themselves for one reason or another.  They do things without reason or rhyme. They are the ONES who infinitely and/or unthinkingly propagate without considering whether or not they can support and/or provide for their children beyond the bare rudiments. They really do not care if their children have a good life free of penury and want.  Oh no, this conception is beyond the mental purview of the poor person.
   
   As a result of their unthinking, selfish propagation, many poor children grow up in inhuman conditions with no amenities, decent food, clothing, medical/health care, and other things that children need. Also, poor children have no books nor intellectual paraphernalia in the home which result in their being mentally stunted and academically FAR behind their middle, upper middle, and upper class counterparts. Again, what are THESE "people" thinking?  Are they thinking?  NOPE!  Lesson 1: If one cannot afford to sustain children, then DON'T have them.  This lesson is lost on poor people! They just simply let it RIP, sometimes RIPPING to the ultimate!
   .
   It seems that poor people just DON'T care! They are merely content to live on scraps and constantly "bemoan" their dire, impoverished fate. Yet, these are the same people who believe that there should be NO wealthy or affluent people.  Let's interject here, these are the people who discourage their children from getting educated as education is not "really for them." They have NO CLUE whatsoever. Do THEY realize that they are FALLING through the cracks to a socioeconomic abyss?
   
   Many poor people contend that the solution to their dilemma is handouts and MORE handouts! If not that, they pine for more equal socioeconomic distribution.  Well, enough is enough for these D students of the socioeconomic system.  The poor are well, DAMNED, and the only people who can help them ........is THEM!   I am thoroughly disgusted with the psychological and mental outlook of many poor people in America.  They are poor because of careless, unthinking, stupid, undisciplined, and irresponsible actions, no more, no less!  Do YOU agree or disagree with this vented premise?
   
   
   

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      Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      How about enforced sterilisation of the poor....that'll sort the whole problem out in 50 years.

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      John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      By my reckoning that leaves about seven people. Are they really worth the bother?

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      renegadetoryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I think that in this day and age here in North America there are more poor people who are not bothered by the fact that they are poor because they live off government benefits and are unwilling to support themselves for a variety of reasons, laziness is probably one reason. 
      
      Then there are people through no fault of their own who end up poor and struggle to get out their situation and for them, it is just a temporary setback.
      
      I was once one of those people on government assistance when I was 20 and a single mother with a baby.  I had to go to food banks sometimes just to have enough food to last us the month.  It was humiliating and depressing.  But I'm grateful I went through it.  I learned  many interesting things.
      
      First, it is my belief that the government with all it's good intentions with offering people benefits end up making people more reliable on hand-outs instead of motivating them to get out and support themselves.  Second, when you are getting benefits and want to better your life and get out of poverty, it's actually far more difficult than the government would have tax payers believe.  It is a frustrating and overly bureaucratic process.
      
      I beat my head more times than I wish to count on a brick wall trying to go back to university to finish  my degree so that hey, I could get a good paying job but there was so much bureaucratic tape as to what I could and couldn't do, it seemed like I could really do diddly squat to improve my life other than.. get more hand-outs!!
      
      If the government wants to give people a helping hand when they are poor to improve their life, they should really reconsider the usefulness of their help because in many cases it is no help at all.

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         gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Well and wonderfully stated.  Many people fail to realize this at all!  Again, well said and God Bless!
         
         I was not addressing those who were poorr through no fault of their own(see disclaimer) due to unemployment, low paying job, and/or through underemployment.  Nor those who CAN'T work because of disability of any kind nor the elderly.  I am addressing the generationally poor and people who WANT to be poor.  Yes, there are those who WANT to be and LOVE being poor. (it's hard to believe that SUCH people exist but THEY do). 
         
         Not to digress, the poor who are making their way and improving themselves I applaud.  Such people are strong and will succeed.  These are not the poor I am addressing.  NEVER!  The subject of this thread are the generationally poor i.e. people who have been poor for multigenerations and those who are happy with their socioeconomic lot in life, settling for crumbs and handouts instead of making a way to better themselves and succeed in life. The ones who state that they AREN'T not going to work.  Even if a job and opportunities were presented to them, they wouldn't take advantage of them..

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            renegadetoryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I found it difficult to feel sorry for people on welfare who lived in housing because they would have big screen TV's, satellite dishes in their yard, you name it.  It just made me think that clearly they are getting too much in benefits from the government if they can on the one hand complain that they have no money and the government doesn't care about them, but then on the other hand they can buy big TV's and have satellite television... that used to really bother me.

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               gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               AGAIN, THANK YOU!

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                  renegadetoryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I guess this is happening in the US too and not just here in Canada... and me personally, I blame both the people who choose not to be a productive member of society AND the government who seems to welcome this kind of dependent behavior in people.

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                     John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     So people actually chose to live in a depressed economy!
                     
                     And are you really surprised at government actions - a government made up of the moneyed classes who are intent on preserving their money at any cost, or should that be, at your cost?

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                        renegadetoryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Oh, I'm far from surprised... but I think that many people out there who pay taxes have a false sense that their tax money is being utilized as the government tells them when reality is much different.  But many people won't see this until they find themselves in a position where they must rely on government programs and services.

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               John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Maybe they stole their large TVs, maybe the satellite dishes were left by a former tenant.
               
               It must be very comfortable for you to be able to write off a whole group of people so easily and with so little thought.

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                  gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Leave her alone, she's right.  I have seen this many times myself. Many poor, indigent people complain about having not enough money yet they spend it on stupidness.  Get real, John, come off that Utopian Neverland Mountain and down to the real, nitty gritty society!

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                     John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     No, I am real, it's you who insist on blaming the victims for their fate that are wrong.

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                        gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Victims, BS and totally ludicrous!  Ha, comrade!  Where is workfare?  Need a reinstitutionalization of the workfare program. They should WORK for their money; tired of my tax dollar$ being allocated to such chicanery!  Work or starve, their choice, not MINE!

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                           John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           No, not their choice or yours but the choice of those who hold the purse strings.
                           They don't want them to work for their money otherwise there would be too much employment and wages would go up, and they don't want that.
                           Much better to have class of people who can not work but who will get the blame for their inability to work.
                           Much better than blaming the real villains isn't it?
                           
                           Find jobs for everybody who is capable of working and I'll join you at the barricades condemning those who won't work.

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                              renegadetoryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              There are jobs out there, they posted them all the time on the job boards at the welfare office. 
                              
                              Here in Canada we bring in hundreds of thousands of immigrants to fill those very jobs that people on welfare for example, have no interest in taking.
                              
                              Also, without a vibrant workforce there is less tax money, less government money means less bureaucrats the government can afford to employ and also less government services that can be provided.. again, less government jobs.

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                                 Uninvited Writerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 We do not bring in hundreds of thousands of immigrants to fill jobs others won't take. According to many critics they come here and steal jobs, to others they go right on welfare. They can't make up their mind and use them to justify any argument.
                                 
                                 You try going on interviews, people want you to have exactly what they want regardless if you have over 20 years experience. I can't tell you how many interviews I had in good faith and heard nothing. You try finding another job in you mid 50s when you have a disability. Even if you are qualified they don't want to hire you.  Thankfully I am not on welfare and can earn money writing. I am unable to take jobs where I have to stand all day. I am sure there are others in that situation. Don't assume everyone who needs social assistance or is unemployed is lazy.

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                  renegadetoryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Perhaps you didn't read my post.  I LIVED among those people for a year and a half.  I knew their names I knew their kids, to me it was just a matter of observation and talking to people to develop a picture of how things were in housing. 
                  
                  Clearly you don't have any understanding of housing projects here in Canada, but I do because I lived there, so I find it funny that you accuse me of blindly judging when you yourself have no knowledge of how it is or what I have been through but feel it ok to judge me.

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      Credence2posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      In reading this , Grace, I think that there is room for more sympathy. Who would want to be among them, incapable of dreams and aspirations? The cycle of poverty (including attitudes) is passed down to offspring from parents just as reliably as DNA. When middle class flight from poorer neighborhoods took place, there was nothing youngsters could see as an alternative to the thug life on the streets. It may not just be the minority urban thing but the white West Virginia thing as well. Someone has to break the cycle and provide a possibility of an alternate reality. My father came home from work clean in a white shirt and tie back in the early 1960's, so I always knew that aspiring to a life beyond squalor and despair was more than possible. I had an example before me each and every day. Who is in the community to teach the value of education and delayed gratification, when their parent(s) struggle for survival, grabbing as grab can.
      
      For the AA community, this problem has been with us for a while and will require a MAJOR shake up in our community to address. The Hispanics, while struggling, are ultimately better off than the blacks because of a more enduring commitment to family and sticking together.
      
      While I am not a Black Muslim, there is much to admire in their sense of self discipline, self reliance, shunning of all drugs and alcohol, respect for our women and each other. I read much of their newspapers in the early days. That was the answer, is it no wonder that the FBI spent so much capital and energy undermining this group. Any disciplined person in a world of the self-indulgent cannot be stopped.  We need something on the scale of a major movement to get this matter properly addressed, it is just that I do not see it coming.

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      Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      DISGUSTING, just disgusting.
      
      Nope you are just factually wrong. It's an easy thing to prove. This is not a theoretical or moral debate the numbers are incontrovertible.
      
      Most of the following numbers are from the non partisan CBO report cited below.
      
      First off 91% of welfare dollars last year went to working households, the disabled and the elderly. Then 5% went to people on Veterans benefits. Almost 3% percent went to single parents. That makes 99% who are obviously not "entitled" or sponging.
      That leaves 1% of welfare spending now of those most are surely people who cannot find a job or who recently lost theirs, the remnant is so small as to be mathematically irrelevant, just fractions of one percent of welfare recipients.
      
      There is nothing wrong with the American poor, there is something HORRIBLY wrong with this rhetoric that is used to smear hard working people or those who are doing it tough in an attempt to justify greed. It's disgusting and factually wrong and people who take part in it should be ASHAMED.
      
      It makes me ashamed of this country that so many are so uninformed, ignorant, cruel or gullible that they fall for it. John is dead right, it takes a special kind of person to blame the victim for their plight.
      
      (Let me just add that I don't care about the personal and almost always fallacious or dishonest anecdotes people will give about all those welfare sponges they know, the statistical facts trump dubious personal stories.)
      
      http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677

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         gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Poor people DON'T think and plan; they indiscriminately act without considering the ramifications of their actions.  These "parents" KNOW that they CAN'T afford to take care of their children properly yet they have children, knowing that these children will have DIMINISHED opportunities because of THEIR
         selfish behavior. Poor people REFUSE to consider the ramifications of their actions, they ACT!
         
         
         Middle, upper middle, and upper class people THINK and PLAN. They consider the ramifications of their actions before they do. These parents have children that they can provide for beyond the bare subsistence level. They waited until the socioeconomic factors were in order before they elect to have children.  As a result of their smart and intelligent actions, their children will have myriad opportunities regarding education and other things( unless unforeseeable circumstances occur). Middle, upper middle, and upper class people have the wherewithal to plan for their and their children's futures.  Poor people COULD care less about THAT!

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            Uninvited Writerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            God you are a sanctimonious judgemental person. You don't know everyone one earth and you don't know that all poor people are completely responsible for their state.

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               gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               God, SOME people can't read. I said poor people in THE UNITED STATES, not worldwide. Many poor people worldwide are INDEED oppressed. They did not have opportunities and were oppressed by the ruling classes and governments in their respective countries.  I am DISCUSSING the poor in the UNITED STATES, can one STAY ON SUBJECT!

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   HattieMattieMaeposted 10 years ago

   Sorry to disagree with you, having a `Human Service Degree/Social work and working with the poor I understand quite differently. Fortunately there is no middle class anymore. The middle class is now part of the group you're talking about since the last few years that have lost their jobs, with master degrees, even higher up. Some that have fallen from way up high from corporate jobs. What's wrong with you? Do you even know how the system really works. There falling through the cracks some what because all the manufacturing jobs have left, service and health care are coming in. The baby boomers don't have the training, the one's inbetween now are catching up with education and training, and the children are being taught the same in high school. Fortunately education leaves a generation gap. Our society has changed, is changing, and the last few years have left families in foreclosure, with out jobs, because there are limited jobs in some states, some don't have transportation in certain areas to find one, or move, have lost everything and trying to rebuild there lives. Act like you really know what you're talking about today. Apparently you don't. The poor is not the same poor anymore you're talking about. Which is generational poverty, and most on assistance today is situational poverty. If you read up on it, even in studies explains two parents can not survive on minimum wage these days in certain areas. Every thing is expensive, and we have debt that baby boomers didn't have.  I seriously don't think you have a clue what you're talking about, and I can tell you most of these people are not happy losing everything, not being able to work, standing in front of food trucks, going to food pantries, unable to pay rent, sleeping in woods, and have no emotional, physical, or spiritual support from friends or family, because of ignorant people that think they know what they are talking in 2013 versus 1970's etc. Ruby Payne can explain why the different groups act the way they do and how they survive. While it used to be more people riding off the system, the poverty poor has changed. To survive the last decade you had to have money to begin with, and if you were one of the, consider yourself blessed, and by the way, don't judge other people without walking in their shoes yourself.  Fortunately you're job too, is not guaranteed, and no job is today in 2013, so it can happen to you any moment and at any time.

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      Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      +1

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         HattieMattieMaeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Looking at your profile it says you've worked for the state, fortunately in the Sate of Michigan most of the programs, grants, and even state employees are out of jobs, because of budget cuts! Most government agencies or county employees have found themselves in the same place. Like I said, be considered blessed you're not one of those people feeling the heat of poverty, you must have been one of the fortunate ones.

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            gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, thankfully(knock on wood).

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      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Read the disclaimer, thank you! The disclaimer succinctly explains the matter at hand.

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   GuitarGearposted 10 years ago

   They have fallen on hard times or were born into unfortunate situations.  They are struggling to survive and live out thier lives as best they can like we all do..  They are human; they are Americans; they are us.  Catagorizing "The Poor" as a separate group feeds the "Us vs. Them" philosophy that continues to paralyze government progress.  Is it better to villify those less fortunate than ourselves than to have a bit of empathy for them?  How can we differentiate between the working poor/the good poor and the bad poor and determine who is worthy of help?  The underlying question here is: What is wrong with us?

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      John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      +1

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      rebekahELLEposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      ++

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